I thought Schoen provided some clues regarding the position going forward.
First, Daniel Jones will be on the roster next year. This should be a surprise to no one considering his contract and cap charge next year ($47M). There is no way to move off Jones and I'd assume there is no trade market. So, Jones takes up a spot in the QB room.
This is where I thought his comments were telling:
-Schoen said there are multiple avenues to address the position which include free agency and trade.
-He brought up the bust rate for top 10 QB's drafted while specifically citing the 2018 draft.
-He admitted that they will need to address QB which again isn't a surprise, but it shows just how bare the Giants are at this position.
-He talked about dealing with the NY market. I know some will disagree with me, but I think this does matter. Hurts is an example of a QB who provides no distractions.
A lot depends where NYG picks, for the sake of discussion let's give them two more wins. They squeak out a win somewhere and beat a resting Eagles team to get to 6-11. This probably puts them in the 5-10 range in the draft.
Would Schoen trade their 24 first, 24 second, 25 first, 25 third and Jalin Hyatt to move to the first pick in the draft? I doubt it. Given the roster holes and the financial commitment to Jones in 2024, I don't see it.
I think it's much more likely to trade into the back of the first and draft a QB. Maybe they sit tight and Daniels is there or maybe they can do a modest trade up in the first to secure one of the top tier QB's, but I don't see a situation where they mortgage a ton of draft picks and a young player like Carolina did.
I could see Schoen getting creative though. This would be trading a mid round pick for someone like Justin Fields or someone else out there that is young and still cost effective. One of Daboll's strengths is developing QB's, so maybe a guy like Fields does better under Daboll.
With Jones assured a roster spot, it makes it tricky though. Do you commit to bring back DeVito knowing he wouldn't last on the practice squad? Do you carry three QB's on game day?
I'd bet whoever is brought in (draft or trade) will have a strong chance to be the starting QB next year. I wonder if they feel the need to bring in two QB's or bring back DeVito and keep developing him.
it may be an obvious name they can get with their top 5-10 pick.
or it may be a trade up into the 20's from the second round.
too early to tell other than their reducing odds at picking 1st/2nd, but this is a good qb draft so i would bet on them finding a dance partner.
the justin fields type move doesnt make much sense to me. whoever gets him is going to pay the price of a starter. the timelines with him and jones are too duplicative. i also dont see much logic in wasting a chunk of the cap on another limited backup Tyrod.
it may be an obvious name they can get with their top 5-10 pick.
or it may be a trade up into the 20's from the second round.
too early to tell other than their reducing odds at picking 1st/2nd, but this is a good qb draft so i would bet on them finding a dance partner.
the justin fields type move doesnt make much sense to me. whoever gets him is going to pay the price of a starter. the timelines with him and jones are too duplicative. i also dont see much logic in wasting a chunk of the cap on another limited backup Tyrod.
This is probably correct. The first round pick gives them the 5th year option.
What I don't see is a massive haul to get from 8th to the top 2 picks.
Jones
Vet FA (see list of possibilities below)
DeVito
The vet holds down the fort to start the season until Daniel returns.
That's the plan that makes sense to a group that paid Jones and could be out on their asses if they repeat 2023 and start 1-5 or something like that.
2024 FA QBs - ( New Window )
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that is what makes the most economic sense and i think there are enough qbs in this draft they will find someone they like.
it may be an obvious name they can get with their top 5-10 pick.
or it may be a trade up into the 20's from the second round.
too early to tell other than their reducing odds at picking 1st/2nd, but this is a good qb draft so i would bet on them finding a dance partner.
the justin fields type move doesnt make much sense to me. whoever gets him is going to pay the price of a starter. the timelines with him and jones are too duplicative. i also dont see much logic in wasting a chunk of the cap on another limited backup Tyrod.
This is probably correct. The first round pick gives them the 5th year option.
What I don't see is a massive haul to get from 8th to the top 2 picks.
that type of trade is rare - last year it happened, i guess jets moved up for darnold to #3 so maybe you could count that, same with trey lance.
we know in 2020 nobody was willing to trade up for either of tua or herbert.
so i think your prediction is a pretty safe one because whether the giants want it or not that type of deal is rarely there. if maye/caleb are real deal they are unlikely to be for sale. as good as the return was the bears probably made a mistake giving up the chance to draft bryce or stroud.
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that is what makes the most economic sense and i think there are enough qbs in this draft they will find someone they like.
it may be an obvious name they can get with their top 5-10 pick.
or it may be a trade up into the 20's from the second round.
too early to tell other than their reducing odds at picking 1st/2nd, but this is a good qb draft so i would bet on them finding a dance partner.
the justin fields type move doesnt make much sense to me. whoever gets him is going to pay the price of a starter. the timelines with him and jones are too duplicative. i also dont see much logic in wasting a chunk of the cap on another limited backup Tyrod.
This is probably correct. The first round pick gives them the 5th year option.
What I don't see is a massive haul to get from 8th to the top 2 picks.
I don't either. What everyone seeems to be losing site of is there can conceivably be 5 or 6 possible 1st rd QB selections. Have to see how it all plays out but it's very possible a good QB can align when Giants are on the clock with 1st rd pick.
Jones
Vet FA (see list of possibilities below)
DeVito
The vet holds down the fort to start the season until Daniel returns.
That's the plan that makes sense to a group that paid Jones and could be out on their asses if they repeat 2023 and start 1-5 or something like that. 2024 FA QBs - ( New Window )
So, kick the can down the road until 2026 and then draft a QB then? I doubt they'll be there in 2026 with that approach.
I get what you're saying, the timeline doesn't add up. But, forcing Jones to work while ignoring QB in the draft is very risky.
The wildcard here is if they like DeVito. Daboll seems to value some juice in the position and he's super cheap. Could they take their Jones medicine while playing DeVito and trying to manage wins? Make the big splash when the cap lines up? They could, but will they still be employed?
Jones
Vet FA (see list of possibilities below)
DeVito
The vet holds down the fort to start the season until Daniel returns.
That's the plan that makes sense to a group that paid Jones and could be out on their asses if they repeat 2023 and start 1-5 or something like that. 2024 FA QBs - ( New Window )
I'd bet that right along with you. As of now anyway.
Why it works for Arizona? They want to move on from Murray and take a rookie QB in 24 and since they will likely be picking top 5, have their sights set on 2 QBs--one of which should be at 5. They get their guy, move on from Murray but get to add a stop gap vet not making insane money for longer than 2 years.
It only works for NYG if they love Murray, obviously.
***This trade would have to be orchestrated on draft day to ensure the Cards can in fact draft their guy. IF their QB is there, the trade goes through.
Do you bite? Do you counter offer? Or do you hang up the phone and say DJM is an asshole for even thinking about adding Murray...
Jones
Vet FA (see list of possibilities below)
DeVito
The vet holds down the fort to start the season until Daniel returns.
That's the plan that makes sense to a group that paid Jones and could be out on their asses if they repeat 2023 and start 1-5 or something like that. 2024 FA QBs - ( New Window )
Because the Giants treat GMs and HCs differently, I wouldn’t set the Schoen and Daboll objectives as equivalent.
Daboll cannot go into 2024 with Jones and some retread as his QB options. The smart play for him is to get a talented 1st rd QB that he can mold into a very good player. That will earn him some extra time.
Schoen however could pass entirely on a QB this upcoming draft with the knowledge that he is highly likely to be the GM in 2025.
If ownership leaned on Schoen to pay Jones (and we know God damned well they did), Daniel lines up as the scapegoat after 2024 with a more palatable $23M wasted.
Maybe I am nuts....but I think the cards might do it.
If ownership leaned on Schoen to pay Jones (and we know God damned well they did), Daniel lines up as the scapegoat after 2024 with a more palatable $23M wasted.
cmon man...so now you're going to a place that believes this staff will keep Jones just so they have a fall guy?????
Do you really believe this stuff? Why even bother being a fan? You do know that if they kept Jones and shit fell apart this whole regime is fucking toast by 2025 at the latest. You know that right?
You can examine/debate/respond to the murray trade proposal as at least that is kind of fun.
Murray’s base salaries through 2027 guarantee in the prior league year, so acquiring him means essentially a base salary commitment for the next 2 years plus some workout bonus stuff. On the Jones side, the acquiring team is committing one year to him and then they can part ways with no muss. The financial side is manageable.
I lean towards the trade for Justin Fields contingency option. I think that could be a low risk high reward acquisition. Of course, depends on the Bears decision on his 5th year option and whether to draft a QB.
This is immensely frustrating. If they had just had the discipline to stick with the plan they put into place by signing Taylor and not picking up Jones's option, none of this would be an issue. The Jones contract rivals the Barkley pick for stupidest decision in a decade of stupid decisions.
it may be an obvious name they can get with their top 5-10 pick.
or it may be a trade up into the 20's from the second round.
too early to tell other than their reducing odds at picking 1st/2nd, but this is a good qb draft so i would bet on them finding a dance partner.
the justin fields type move doesnt make much sense to me. whoever gets him is going to pay the price of a starter. the timelines with him and jones are too duplicative. i also dont see much logic in wasting a chunk of the cap on another limited backup Tyrod.
What does economic sense matter if they draft a QB in the first who plays like Wilson, Lance, Fields or Jones? Do you think any of those players, or Kenny Pickett, will have their 5th year options enacted?
Not remotely true. The 2018 draft class was very highly regarded. Just one of many cites for that:
Year of the QB: Top 5 QB classes of all-time
There's a lot of excitement surrounding the talented college QBs suiting up this fall. In fact, some are calling 2017 "The Year of the QB". Will we see at least six signal-callers picked in the first two rounds of the 2018 NFL Draft?
Now, we don't know when these underclassmen will decide to enter the draft, but young QBs like Sam Darnold (USC), Josh Allen (Wyoming), and Lamar Jackson (Louisville) showed great promise in 2016. Josh Rosen (UCLA) struggled a bit in his sophomore campaign, but his talent is undeniable.
Josh Allen went to the 2018 combine and set the all-time velocity record (in addition to being an all-time QB running threat). There's nobody in the upcoming class who strikes me the same way.
If Lamar Jackson were in the 2024 class, he'd be talked about for #1 overall, just as Jayden Daniels is. And LJ went at the end of 2018 round 1.
nfl.com - ( New Window )
This is immensely frustrating. If they had just had the discipline to stick with the plan they put into place by signing Taylor and not picking up Jones's option, none of this would be an issue. The Jones contract rivals the Barkley pick for stupidest decision in a decade of stupid decisions.
Daboll threw an iPad down in disgust after the Jones pick 6 against Seattle. You think Daboll feels Jones gives him the best chance to win?
If NYG signs a vet #2, that's a potentially significant signal about their view on the premium draft prospects. Whether their target will be available to them, or how they may prefer to not spend to trade up for one in the first round. Perhaps QB will be in play in the 2nd round, or a trade back into the low 1st round when the cap investment is much smaller, etc.
Tyrod Taylor.
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I don't want to start a rookie down $47M in cap space. I need wins this year. I'm not sure a rookie resets the clock for Daboll.
This is immensely frustrating. If they had just had the discipline to stick with the plan they put into place by signing Taylor and not picking up Jones's option, none of this would be an issue. The Jones contract rivals the Barkley pick for stupidest decision in a decade of stupid decisions.
Daboll threw an iPad down in disgust after the Jones pick 6 against Seattle. You think Daboll feels Jones gives him the best chance to win?
I think Daboll would feel more comfortable with the devil he knows than the devil he doesn't, and he also can hope Jones gets the axe instead of him if 2024 goes bad. He also will probably feel safer with a vet to start the season.
This is a fucking mess.
The advantage to drafting a guy as opposed to someone like Fields is the 5th year option and affordability. For that reason I am hoping they go the draft route, even if that means staying put at say 10 or even trading back into the first for someone they like who suddenly becomes attainable.
I also think the trait they need to value over everything else is the ability to make the right reads and process what he sees. If you have that you can make a lot of guys with accuracy or arm strength challenges serviceable. It is much harder to work around the mental part of the game because it impacts everything else.
Why it works for Arizona? They want to move on from Murray and take a rookie QB in 24 and since they will likely be picking top 5, have their sights set on 2 QBs--one of which should be at 5. They get their guy, move on from Murray but get to add a stop gap vet not making insane money for longer than 2 years.
It only works for NYG if they love Murray, obviously.
***This trade would have to be orchestrated on draft day to ensure the Cards can in fact draft their guy. IF their QB is there, the trade goes through.
Do you bite? Do you counter offer? Or do you hang up the phone and say DJM is an asshole for even thinking about adding Murray...
You want to trade for a guy who needed to be told to study film more? I could maybe see it if he were coming at a huge salary discount but his deal is actually worse than DJ’s.
Murray is a guy I want nothing to do with for more reasons than just the film stuff and his salary and for me this trade would sour me entirely on Shoen being a good GM.
I posted a link to the 2024 FA QBs above. Likely names include:
Tannehill
Brissett
Mariota
Darnold
Mayfield
Minshew
Bridgewater
Dobbs
Please know I'm shaking my head as I've been typing these posts out. I'm not proposing any of this as what I would do.
I think this is all a sick fucking joke.
Jones
Vet FA (see list of possibilities below)
DeVito
The vet holds down the fort to start the season until Daniel returns.
That's the plan that makes sense to a group that paid Jones and could be out on their asses if they repeat 2023 and start 1-5 or something like that. 2024 FA QBs - ( New Window )
I hope they have a better plan than this (as I'm sure you do). First, any backup QB worth his salt like Brisette will be too expensive considering the team's cap constraints with Jones' $47 million hit.
Second, there's tons of value at QB in the 2024 draft that they need to take advantage of. There's a chance that guys like Daniels, McCarthy, and Penix would be top picks in 2025 if they were eligible. The Giants have to take a guy now.
So, I get it that there is only one QB spot open and Schoen/Daboll may go for the competent vet.
The wins last year were more costly than any win down the stretch this year.
Schoen also seems very aware of the salary cap and taking advantage of a rookie QB's contract window.
They aren't going to make Jones the unquestioned starter. They tried opening up the offense for him this past season and it was a disaster. What are their options for him? Run the 2022 offense after an ACL and neck injury?
My instruction to them (or their replacements) would be to find a way to absorb whatever pain necessary to get Jones off the roster immediately, and to restock the QB room this offseason come hell or high water. Every asset is tradeable, up to and including Thibodeaux.
This draft is stacked with quarterbacks. The Giants have no quarterbacks. Enough already.
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Let’s review some of the names.
I posted a link to the 2024 FA QBs above. Likely names include:
Tannehill
Brissett
Mariota
Darnold
Mayfield
Minshew
Bridgewater
Dobbs
Please know I'm shaking my head as I've been typing these posts out. I'm not proposing any of this as what I would do.
I think this is all a sick fucking joke.
I think this is right, which is why I've been advocating trading back or out of our first this year to collect assets for next season's draft as insurance for the inevitable shitty year when (hopefully) they finally move on from Jones.
Joe Schoen is not going to go for Kyler Murray. He doesn't fit the "building a culture" thing. He doesn't fit it in Arizona, he'd fit it even less in New York.
My instruction to them (or their replacements) would be to find a way to absorb whatever pain necessary to get Jones off the roster immediately, and to restock the QB room this offseason come hell or high water. Every asset is tradeable, up to and including Thibodeaux.
This draft is stacked with quarterbacks. The Giants have no quarterbacks. Enough already.
I believe they'll get a reset and they'll take a QB in the first two rounds. There is some precedent Schoen and Daboll can point to: The Eagles ditching Wentz after giving him a huge contract, and the 49ers going with Purdy after a double-whammy of trading up for Lance and paying Jimmy G $25 mil.
Unless he drafts a QB in the lottery and cuts the cord with Jones heading into 2024, his plan is going to be some patchwork nonsense with keeping Jones and taking a flyer on a long-shot QB prospect in 2024.
Guy blew it with Jones.
Daboll is much better at his job than Schoen. I'm convinced he is a legit HC in the NFL and knows how to lead.
Unless he drafts a QB in the lottery and cuts the cord with Jones heading into 2024, his plan is going to be some patchwork nonsense with keeping Jones and taking a flyer on a long-shot QB prospect in 2024.
Guy blew it with Jones.
Daboll is much better at his job than Schoen. I'm convinced he is a legit HC in the NFL and knows how to lead.
I can't dispute any of this. I've been impressed with Daboll too. The Jones contract has complicated everything.
Amazing that Schoen got no questions on the contract.
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If I were Mara I'd either fire both Schoen and Daboll or reset the clock on both of them, pretending '22 and '23 never happened.
My instruction to them (or their replacements) would be to find a way to absorb whatever pain necessary to get Jones off the roster immediately, and to restock the QB room this offseason come hell or high water. Every asset is tradeable, up to and including Thibodeaux.
This draft is stacked with quarterbacks. The Giants have no quarterbacks. Enough already.
I believe they'll get a reset and they'll take a QB in the first two rounds. There is some precedent Schoen and Daboll can point to: The Eagles ditching Wentz after giving him a huge contract, and the 49ers going with Purdy after a double-whammy of trading up for Lance and paying Jimmy G $25 mil.
My numbers on Jimmy G were all wrong. Nevertheless, trading up to get Lance and then giving up after two games is pretty bad.