I thought Schoen provided some clues regarding the position going forward.
First, Daniel Jones will be on the roster next year. This should be a surprise to no one considering his contract and cap charge next year ($47M). There is no way to move off Jones and I'd assume there is no trade market. So, Jones takes up a spot in the QB room.
This is where I thought his comments were telling:
-Schoen said there are multiple avenues to address the position which include free agency and trade.
-He brought up the bust rate for top 10 QB's drafted while specifically citing the 2018 draft.
-He admitted that they will need to address QB which again isn't a surprise, but it shows just how bare the Giants are at this position.
-He talked about dealing with the NY market. I know some will disagree with me, but I think this does matter. Hurts is an example of a QB who provides no distractions.
A lot depends where NYG picks, for the sake of discussion let's give them two more wins. They squeak out a win somewhere and beat a resting Eagles team to get to 6-11. This probably puts them in the 5-10 range in the draft.
Would Schoen trade their 24 first, 24 second, 25 first, 25 third and Jalin Hyatt to move to the first pick in the draft? I doubt it. Given the roster holes and the financial commitment to Jones in 2024, I don't see it.
I think it's much more likely to trade into the back of the first and draft a QB. Maybe they sit tight and Daniels is there or maybe they can do a modest trade up in the first to secure one of the top tier QB's, but I don't see a situation where they mortgage a ton of draft picks and a young player like Carolina did.
I could see Schoen getting creative though. This would be trading a mid round pick for someone like Justin Fields or someone else out there that is young and still cost effective. One of Daboll's strengths is developing QB's, so maybe a guy like Fields does better under Daboll.
With Jones assured a roster spot, it makes it tricky though. Do you commit to bring back DeVito knowing he wouldn't last on the practice squad? Do you carry three QB's on game day?
I'd bet whoever is brought in (draft or trade) will have a strong chance to be the starting QB next year. I wonder if they feel the need to bring in two QB's or bring back DeVito and keep developing him.
on one hand you say that but on the other you dont like the idea of drafting nix - which is totally fair because i have my own reservations about him - but that's my point, i think there are unrealistic expectations about finding qbs in general. all of us as fans get wrapped in liking certain guys and not others.
i loved (and still very much like) bryce young because what he did against the SEC (especially UGA 3 or 4x in big games) had me more convinced than any recent qb he was ready for the NFL. his anticipation, ball distribution, escapability were all among what i think the most important traits are in the game today and he was battle tested. the nfl agreed as he was the consensus #1 player on all the lists ahead of more tools-rich players, he got drafted there, and now most fans make smurf jokes and frank reich is fired.
so all of that is to say my prism for qbs is that it's these guys jobs on the line and they know it better than us. it is their single biggest decision, they watch every ounce of tape, and they know 1 million times better than us which players are the right fits for their schemes. and they get significantly more wrong than right. it's easy to not like guys (theres a reason for the saying most popular player on every team is backup qb). fans can be much more casual about changing qbs because our jobs arent on the line.
I said I wouldn't like Nix as a first round investment, especially in the lottery. But a day two or early day three idea is more interesting.
It's way too early to write the obituary on Young, but that size was always going to be a challenge. It stinks for him right now that he's in such chaos in Charlotte.
Look, I know Schoen is a professional evaluator, but it that shouldn't mean we should just trust their decisions. Especially a guy like Schoen who has never been in the chair that swings the gavel. And the draft/evaluation process is still more art than science.
But circling back to Jones, do you really think he has skills that you trust moving forward? Skills that you observe and go, "Yeah, those are good enough to win big prizes..."
And your post above on DJ is a good example of how you missed, and missed it huge.
It is a fan opinion board and we all miss so no big deal. Unless, of course, you want to continue to make yourself out to be a big deal. That is up to you.
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on one hand you say that but on the other you dont like the idea of drafting nix - which is totally fair because i have my own reservations about him - but that's my point, i think there are unrealistic expectations about finding qbs in general. all of us as fans get wrapped in liking certain guys and not others.
i loved (and still very much like) bryce young because what he did against the SEC (especially UGA 3 or 4x in big games) had me more convinced than any recent qb he was ready for the NFL. his anticipation, ball distribution, escapability were all among what i think the most important traits are in the game today and he was battle tested. the nfl agreed as he was the consensus #1 player on all the lists ahead of more tools-rich players, he got drafted there, and now most fans make smurf jokes and frank reich is fired.
so all of that is to say my prism for qbs is that it's these guys jobs on the line and they know it better than us. it is their single biggest decision, they watch every ounce of tape, and they know 1 million times better than us which players are the right fits for their schemes. and they get significantly more wrong than right. it's easy to not like guys (theres a reason for the saying most popular player on every team is backup qb). fans can be much more casual about changing qbs because our jobs arent on the line.
I said I wouldn't like Nix as a first round investment, especially in the lottery. But a day two or early day three idea is more interesting.
It's way too early to write the obituary on Young, but that size was always going to be a challenge. It stinks for him right now that he's in such chaos in Charlotte.
Look, I know Schoen is a professional evaluator, but it that shouldn't mean we should just trust their decisions. Especially a guy like Schoen who has never been in the chair that swings the gavel. And the draft/evaluation process is still more art than science.
But circling back to Jones, do you really think he has skills that you trust moving forward? Skills that you observe and go, "Yeah, those are good enough to win big prizes..."
if you dont have an elite starting qb, picking your starting qb is trusting the tallest midget. you and i have talked jones since that draft year and the ryan finley days, i thought jones had the alex smith/tannehill (pre-ten) skill set and i think that's still well within his capability so long as he returns healthy (which is a ?). Alex Smith didnt have his first winning season until year 6 age 27 and then won a heck of a lot of games after that even if he didnt win the big one.
And your post above on DJ is a good example of how you missed, and missed it huge.
It is a fan opinion board and we all miss so no big deal. Unless, of course, you want to continue to make yourself out to be a big deal. That is up to you.
the only one making a big deal out of my opinions is you, and your multiple handles that seem to stalk and chronicle my posts. but your right it's fan opinion board so i guess im glad to have fans even if they are all the same guy who pretends to be different guys a few times each year.
The one you were clueless on and missed. By a mile.
Maybe you will reserve judgment or listen to others in a more prudent fashion until you actually get an opinion on one these bigger deals correct.
But again, that is up to you.
The one you were clueless on and missed. By a mile.
Maybe you will reserve judgment or listen to others in a more prudent fashion until you actually get an opinion on one these bigger deals correct.
But again, that is up to you.
not really no, after this ill mute you and be done with it since i assume nobody else cares. if there's one thing you're good at it's stalking so i assume you already found the worst of my takes (and if jones comes back healthy i think the contract will hold up fine, just as the leonard williams contract ended up working out just fine).
you seem to feel really validated by what amounted to 4 bad losses this year, which you are free to feel, but ill caution the same things i said in 2022 ahead of jones' last prove it year when you and many others were confident that would be his last year here. he's under contract that essentially guarantees him 2024, it's unlikely they spend to bring in a veteran to compete with him, and it's at best even odds a rookie would beat him out if he's healthy. so while you want to shoot him to the moon over the 4 games his contract makes it unlikely and if he's healthy whatever miniscule probability you'd peg on him coming back again in 2025, in reality it's higher.
This would have been less expensive and allowed the Giants to rid themselves of the big Jones contract after only one year.
From management perspective the most sense is to position yourself to get rid of the biggest contract as soon as possible if things dont work out.
Now, if I can see this i am sure Schoen could see it. So why was this not done? This decision has Mara written all over it. It is the only logical explanation.
I mean just think about it. The highest salary by far should be the one that you want in a position to jettison as soon as possible if things go south.
Mara loved Jones and I am sure he bent Schoens ear. Schoen did his best to leave himself an out.
There is simply no good reason to have not franchised Jones.
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Five years in and still the argument for Jones can only be based on criticizing the conditions around him.
I can't believe this nightmare is still going on. I will admit I've been dead wrong about how long Jones would be here. Never thought it would get this far. Shame on me for that.
I can't figure it out, either. It's the most bizarre situation I have ever seen in my time here at BBI.
I don't who is dumber at this point: Me for not seeing what others apparently see in Jones? Schoen for re-signing Jones? Or the DJFC?
I'll keep repeating what others have wisely pointed out - if Jones was on another team and available in free agency, this board would be near unanimous in having zero interest in signing him.
While I'm not a Barkley guy in the sense of wanting to pay him big dollars, he has been infinitely more productive at his position than Jones. So, I can see why posters would push to keep him. At least defenses fear him.
What is confusing to me is that both of you believe that other’s opinion’s don’t matter. I will be kind and leave it at.