I’m really warming up to this kid… His release is damn quick, and he can sling it!
He’s a top shelf runner (Az St tape) that has developed into a very intriguing prospect… makes me feel better about “winning” our way outta picking #2 😜
Then you throw in Penix, Nix and McCarthy and maybe we take a blue chip non QB…then use our 2nd rounders to move back into the late first… snag Nix.
Either way it’s going to be fun to see how our team finishes this season. I’m rooting for wins, and knowing we have a deep QB class to consider helps…regardless of where we end up picking.
If the draft is today… I’m hoping Jayden lasts to 6, and we put him in Giants blue… he can learn for year, and put some muscle/size on too.
Kid is gonna be special at the next level…
Mr. Daniels - (
New Window )
2) How is his accuracy, can he make the throws?
3) Does he stare down his first option (again, a knock on DJ made here by some)?
We‘ll get a good QB if we want one. I trust them to make a good pick, but Im not convinced they’ll take a QB. I think free agency will signal what’s to come. If we sign some FA OL then my guess is we give Jones another year to see what he can do when not under constant duress. There are plenty of other positions to fill at the top of the draft.
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Whether at the top of the first round or if we make some moves and pick at the back. Be happy with Daniels, Nix, Maye. Scared of Williams. Don’t want McCarthy. Trust Schoen, Daboll and company to make a good pick. Just play to win, the draft will shake out for us and let’s go from there.
We‘ll get a good QB if we want one. I trust them to make a good pick, but Im not convinced they’ll take a QB. I think free agency will signal what’s to come. If we sign some FA OL then my guess is we give Jones another year to see what he can do when not under constant duress. There are plenty of other positions to fill at the top of the draft.
How many years are we going to give Jones to see what he can do? I know he hasn't had a great situation around him, but it feels like some people would like to give him 500 chances and never move on.
I think there's a huge gap between the top 3 guys and the next group. There's bust potential with everyone but I'm not convinced guys like Penix or Nix will do well in the NFL. Nix is obviously playing great at Oregon but he really does not have any elite skill to justify taking him really high.
If the Giants want to get one of the top 3 QB's, they're going to have to get into the top 4. I would be surprised assuming nothing comes up medically if the top 4 picks weren't Williams, Maye, Daniels and Harrison in some order.
Getting Daniels after #4 imo has next to no chance of happening.
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In comment 16305702 gary_from_chester said:
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Whether at the top of the first round or if we make some moves and pick at the back. Be happy with Daniels, Nix, Maye. Scared of Williams. Don’t want McCarthy. Trust Schoen, Daboll and company to make a good pick. Just play to win, the draft will shake out for us and let’s go from there.
We‘ll get a good QB if we want one. I trust them to make a good pick, but Im not convinced they’ll take a QB. I think free agency will signal what’s to come. If we sign some FA OL then my guess is we give Jones another year to see what he can do when not under constant duress. There are plenty of other positions to fill at the top of the draft.
How many years are we going to give Jones to see what he can do? I know he hasn't had a great situation around him, but it feels like some people would like to give him 500 chances and never move on.
I think there's a huge gap between the top 3 guys and the next group. There's bust potential with everyone but I'm not convinced guys like Penix or Nix will do well in the NFL. Nix is obviously playing great at Oregon but he really does not have any elite skill to justify taking him really high.
If the Giants want to get one of the top 3 QB's, they're going to have to get into the top 4. I would be surprised assuming nothing comes up medically if the top 4 picks weren't Williams, Maye, Daniels and Harrison in some order.
Getting Daniels after #4 imo has next to no chance of happening.
For what it’s worth I’m not a Jones advocate. I just wouldn’t be surprised if they gave him another shot. Hell they may draft a guy and keep Jones for another year. I could also see them falling to the 6-8 range, start to panic and draft a guy like McCarthy (whom I think will end up being a good pro so I wouldn’t be distraught).
As good as Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield and Allen?
Same $hit every year with the "great QB draft class" nonsense.
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To take a QB. Giants should do so
As good as Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield and Allen?
Same $hit every year with the "great QB draft class" nonsense.
Good thing they can’t pick another Flowers or Toney in the first round!
Not sure what Maye has show that warrants a top 5, maybe even top 10 pick. He's been very average among this group of QBs. Based on his play he might have fallen back closer to the Penix, Nix group than Williams and Daniels. I still believe Daniels will be the first QB taken. He seems like a taller, faster Lamar Jackson with a better arm and very quick release and seems to be great at reading the field and going through progressions (which is helped by having a good O line).
Unfortunately, it feels like the only way we can assure getting him is to call Chicago and trade up for the #1 pick.
2) How is his accuracy, can he make the throws?
3) Does he stare down his first option (again, a knock on DJ made here by some)?
THIS
2) How is his accuracy, can he make the throws?
3) Does he stare down his first option (again, a knock on DJ made here by some)?
I love how this is phrased like "well, SOME idiots out here think DJ can't read a defense" when this is the belief of nearly everyone involved/following the NFL except a subset of Giants fans.
The question then becomes, with Joe Schoen picking BPA, does he go for Drake Maye if he's available when we pick at anything from 5th to 8th? Does Schoen, who has proved very adept at these things, consider moving up a couple of spots if he thinks another team will try and get in first?
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1) How is he a reading defenses (that has been the knock on DJ by some)?
2) How is his accuracy, can he make the throws?
3) Does he stare down his first option (again, a knock on DJ made here by some)?
THIS
He is very good at reading defenses.
His accuracy is very good, probably the best of the three "top" choices.
He constantly gets through 2, 3 and 4 progressions.
Add in that he has a very quick release, is a dynamic, elusive, and explosive runner, something Williams and Maye are not, is easily the most athletic of the three, and will likely to dip into 4.4s in the 40, and he should be the top guy.
The only things people can criticize him for are his weight (which can be fixed) and the fact he plays with a very good O line and two really good receivers. Think Richardson from Florida last year, but in a guy who has actually shown he can play the QB position.
Anyone who hasn't seen him play should watch some video.
Agree, that it comes down to the QB being able to process in a much more challenging environment and from the pocket. Once the college game changed the rule allowing OL to be three yards past the LOS it opened up the passing game. The NFL rule is one yard. Saban tried hard to fight that change (harder to defend) and then he finally changed up and joined the offensive trend.
I think overall QB's are much harder to evaluate today with that rule change. Then you have to factor in the talent around the QB and scheme.
I think Nix will win the Heisman but we will see how it shakes out. Daniels is certainly very deserving if he winds up on top.
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In comment 16305705 Dang Man said:
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In comment 16305702 gary_from_chester said:
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Whether at the top of the first round or if we make some moves and pick at the back. Be happy with Daniels, Nix, Maye. Scared of Williams. Don’t want McCarthy. Trust Schoen, Daboll and company to make a good pick. Just play to win, the draft will shake out for us and let’s go from there.
We‘ll get a good QB if we want one. I trust them to make a good pick, but Im not convinced they’ll take a QB. I think free agency will signal what’s to come. If we sign some FA OL then my guess is we give Jones another year to see what he can do when not under constant duress. There are plenty of other positions to fill at the top of the draft.
How many years are we going to give Jones to see what he can do? I know he hasn't had a great situation around him, but it feels like some people would like to give him 500 chances and never move on.
I think there's a huge gap between the top 3 guys and the next group. There's bust potential with everyone but I'm not convinced guys like Penix or Nix will do well in the NFL. Nix is obviously playing great at Oregon but he really does not have any elite skill to justify taking him really high.
If the Giants want to get one of the top 3 QB's, they're going to have to get into the top 4. I would be surprised assuming nothing comes up medically if the top 4 picks weren't Williams, Maye, Daniels and Harrison in some order.
Getting Daniels after #4 imo has next to no chance of happening.
For what it’s worth I’m not a Jones advocate. I just wouldn’t be surprised if they gave him another shot. Hell they may draft a guy and keep Jones for another year. I could also see them falling to the 6-8 range, start to panic and draft a guy like McCarthy (whom I think will end up being a good pro so I wouldn’t be distraught).
Jones is not going anywhere next year. If we draft a QB Jones will start (if healthy) while the QB drafted learns for a while. How Jones does will decide when the Rookie gets his chance. Cutting Jones next year will result in 69 Mil in dead money
Every year is a great year to draft a QB until the Giants have to draft one.
And between then and the draft, agreed.
Ranking these QBs is far from over.
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1) How is he a reading defenses (that has been the knock on DJ by some)?
2) How is his accuracy, can he make the throws?
3) Does he stare down his first option (again, a knock on DJ made here by some)?
I love how this is phrased like "well, SOME idiots out here think DJ can't read a defense" when this is the belief of nearly everyone involved/following the NFL except a subset of Giants fans.
I am not an expert but would like to know the names of the experts who said this. Thanks.
2) How is his accuracy, can he make the throws?
3) Does he stare down his first option (again, a knock on DJ made here by some)?
Uh, that's a knock made by his actual NFL opponents. You can try to discredit it as a claim made by BBI posters only, but you'd be wrong to do so.
One more because his contract is structured that way, unless he retires for medical reasons. Which is unlikely.
The Giants are going to bring in another QB. Schoen said so. They probably can't afford another veteran so figure they'll draft one. They are in a position to develop a rookie for a while. If Jones doesn't turn out to be a top QB, then their best-case scenario is that he takes the Alex Smith "bridge QB" role and the new guy is an upgrade starting in 2025.
I get that we're all frustrated with DJ's 2023 season. But he's un-cuttable until after next season due to his contract. Also, teams generally don't want to have guys lose their job due to injury. You don't want players worrying too much about protecting their bodies or their jobs; you want them playing all-out. So he will be QB1 once he's healthy. After that, it'll be up to him to produce/perform. If he does, great. If he doesn't, they'll have a Plan B in place.
2) How is his accuracy, can he make the throws?
3) Does he stare down his first option (again, a knock on DJ made here by some)?
Nobody on the board has any idea about #1 and #3. We just don't have access to that type of information. Sy might based on his vocation.
But #2 can be assessed. And Daniels can make any throw required - stationary or on the move - and he has completed over 72% of his passes at a 12+ YPA. Do that math...
I mostly agree, but I see some possibility where Jones starts the season as the starter and is replaced at some point, probably early. But that's only if Jones is healthy enough and has had enough practice before week 1 to be ready to go.
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1) How is he a reading defenses (that has been the knock on DJ by some)?
2) How is his accuracy, can he make the throws?
3) Does he stare down his first option (again, a knock on DJ made here by some)?
Nobody on the board has any idea about #1 and #3. We just don't have access to that type of information. Sy might based on his vocation.
But #2 can be assessed. And Daniels can make any throw required - stationary or on the move - and he has completed over 72% of his passes at a 12+ YPA. Do that math...
Um, analyzing football does take some acumen but it also isn't rocket science if you understand the game and QB play.
I've seen Jones not make correct reads based on defensive leverage, I've seen him not go through his progressions. Too many times he bails if the primary isn't there right away.
I would agree that you shouldn't base an opinion on one or two plays. You need to evaluate based on a broad review to see what problems are occurring consistently. And Jones' 2023 play indicates these issues.
Yes, someone said that Schoen was at the LSU-FSU game week 1. I'm willing to bet he'll be at the bowl game (assuming Daniels plays).
I don't get the arm strength comment. He has a very strong arm. IMO, stronger than Maye.
I also think he processes well. I think he's a good prospect. But that isn't because of elite arm strength.
In comment 16306292 Now Mike in MD said:
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is Daniels. That doesn't mean he's going to be the best pro QB. I have concerns about his arm strength and durability. He takes a lot of big shots running the ball and hasn't learned how to protect himself. He also doesn't have the pure arm talent of Caleb and Maye. That doesn't mean he doesn't have a good arm. I'd be fine if we drafted him, but I'd understand of Schoen and Daboll want to trade up for Maye instead or even wait to take McCarthy. They'll have a lot more info than we do. Very few people thought Josh Allen would be as good as he is based on what he showed in college.
I don't get the arm strength comment. He has a very strong arm. IMO, stronger than Maye.
I also think he processes well. I think he's a good prospect. But that isn't because of elite arm strength.
In comment 16306292 Now Mike in MD said:
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In comment 16306276 ElitoCanton said:
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is Daniels. That doesn't mean he's going to be the best pro QB. I have concerns about his arm strength and durability. He takes a lot of big shots running the ball and hasn't learned how to protect himself. He also doesn't have the pure arm talent of Caleb and Maye. That doesn't mean he doesn't have a good arm. I'd be fine if we drafted him, but I'd understand of Schoen and Daboll want to trade up for Maye instead or even wait to take McCarthy. They'll have a lot more info than we do. Very few people thought Josh Allen would be as good as he is based on what he showed in college.
I don't get the arm strength comment. He has a very strong arm. IMO, stronger than Maye.
Here is just one of many reviews of him discussing hus arm strength. This one says he has an "absolute laser."
Laser - ( New Window )
It says absolutely laser." Here's another calling his arm strength "impressive."
Impresdive - ( New Window )
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not elite arm talent. Maye and Caleb both have elite arm talent. Josh Allen/Pat Mahomes arm talent. Maye isn't as refined. But his arm strength is a different level than Daniels. Fine if you disagree. But I've watched about 5 games of each and that is what I see.
It says absolutely laser." Here's another calling his arm strength "impressive." Impresdive - ( New Window )
Yeah, he can spin it. IMV, his release sets him apart. He has a very economical stroke and can really get the ball out quickly.
Great Blue North Top 150 - ( New Window )
Um, analyzing football does take some acumen but it also isn't rocket science if you understand the game and QB play.
I've seen Jones not make correct reads based on defensive leverage, I've seen him not go through his progressions. Too many times he bails if the primary isn't there right away.
I would agree that you shouldn't base an opinion on one or two plays. You need to evaluate based on a broad review to see what problems are occurring consistently. And Jones' 2023 play indicates these issues.
Many of these college offenses aren't that sophisticated due to limitations with NCAA rules regarding time teams can spend with players. So, many of these QBs are used to taking their first read because it's just open, especially with the big brands. There are certainly times when a QB can get to multiple reads, but that's usually because they have all day to throw (see, for example, Carson Beck at Georgia). When they have to speed up due to better competition like the NFL, that's where the problems manifest themselves.
Which is why I stay with the point - it's almost impossible to know how much a college QB can comprehend and react with progressions until they actually play against NFL competition. College and the NFL are just vastly different games of football...
And Bo Nix up to #13, for all the Nix haters.
As a reminder for anyone who is curious about GBN's QB eval chops - Colin also posted on BBI this past offseason that Daniel Jones is "probably not as good as Patrick Mahomes."
Probably not.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd prefer to get my QB prospect evals from someone who can see that DJ is definitely not as good as Patrick Mahomes. It's not like that's a controversial view, either.
And let's be honest - Daniels didn't really do anything significant enough over the past five days to jump from #33 to #7 (especially not compared to his game against UF a few weeks earlier). The only thing that changed was GBN's reaction to public sentiment.
Daniels should have been in any credible draftnik's top ten for at least the last month, not just the past day.