He had a good college career. Didn't throw many interceptions at all. Played in the big ten and was ranked 2nd best qb behind Stroud.
Devito has given fans a reason to watch the games. Given his head coach a guy who looks downfield first instead of looking at the chains first. Given his teammates some energy and spirit.
Time will tell what level of play Devito will ultimately achieve but I enjoy watching him play and I feel a sense of hope when he plays.
7. Schoen and Daboll will not be fired if Jones is the QB next year and doesn’t turn it around
If Joe & Dabs are dumb enough to hitch their ride to DJ going forward, neither of them are long for this organization provided winning is something that still matters. It might not to John, just as long as he can Jones is the first one in the building, calls John 'Mr. Mara', & do whatever else he does that casts a spell on that clown of an owner.
Forcing a QB pick at the top of the draft just because they fear they will be fired is about a triple worse outcome instead of taking BPA.
Passing on Jayden Daniels would be difficult to accept
The production is extraordinary on an ok LSU team. And if you watch his highlights you'll see him making big time throws, outrunning angles against SEC defenders, and protecting himself well enough that he has a clean jersey with 200 yards rushing.
I do not understand the rationale of passing on this player in the draft.
Not saying they should force a pick, but they need to get someone-be it the draft, FA, or hell even DeVito-who can play better than Jones, which-after this season-isn't that high of a bar. Hell, even DeVito-an undrafted UFA-has looked better than the guy who got the $140 dollar deal, a contract that looks worse & worse with every passing second.
He’s in another universe talent wise from Jones. The real stand out trait btw is his passing accuracy. Some absolute dimes, including long throws in every game I’ve watched.
If Schoen and the scouts support vote yes on Daniels , I support Trading away whatever it takes to get him on the team. If.
If he translates to the NFL, he’s a franchise changing player.
RE: Passing on Jayden Daniels would be difficult to accept
The production is extraordinary on an ok LSU team. And if you watch his highlights you'll see him making big time throws, outrunning angles against SEC defenders, and protecting himself well enough that he has a clean jersey with 200 yards rushing.
I do not understand the rationale of passing on this player in the draft.
Fine with me. There's nothing on the team I wouldn't trade, including Thibodeaux who I would consider our most valuable asset.
The actual good players on this team: Lawrence, Thomas, Thibodeaux, Hyatt, Banks, Okereke... we're just wasting their time and ours right now. Just throwing away years.
Fine with me. There's nothing on the team I wouldn't trade, including Thibodeaux who I would consider our most valuable asset.
The actual good players on this team: Lawrence, Thomas, Thibodeaux, Hyatt, Banks, Okereke... we're just wasting their time and ours right now. Just throwing away years.
You would trade away the most promising pass rusher we’ve had since Michael Strahan for a chance to draft Jayden Daniels?
Thrown for more yards, touchdowns, for a higher completion percentage, all while being in the league for one less year.
With a bum hand the last three weeks Herbert has tripled Jones 2023 touchdown output. Again; what has Jones shown more than Herbert?
And Herbert played half the year in 2022 with broken rib cartilage.
Imagine if the Giants and Chargers jobs were the only two job openings. If every coach were offered both jobs, is there any doubt they would all choose the Chargers job?
Fine with me. There's nothing on the team I wouldn't trade, including Thibodeaux who I would consider our most valuable asset.
The actual good players on this team: Lawrence, Thomas, Thibodeaux, Hyatt, Banks, Okereke... we're just wasting their time and ours right now. Just throwing away years.
You would trade away the most promising pass rusher we’ve had since Michael Strahan for a chance to draft Jayden Daniels?
I would. And I have nothing against Thibodeaux. One of the few good things on this team.
We've already wasted two years of having him on the cheap. I'm not itching to trade him - I'd rather trade picks - but we're wasting everyone's time with this zero at quarterback.
Herbert is a very talented QB, but why is that job so good aside from the QB? The Chargers are nowhere near the brand of the Giants. The Chargers don't even have a brand. You are stuck in a division with Reid/Mahomes and Payton. You have no home field advantage, the stadium will be filled with the opposing teams fans. And Dean Spanos is one of the worst owners in the sport.
That's an awful job, but yes you've got a QB. Good luck winning the division though. Eli was right to avoid that organization.
Herbert is a very talented QB, but why is that job so good aside from the QB? The Chargers are nowhere near the brand of the Giants. The Chargers don't even have a brand. You are stuck in a division with Reid/Mahomes and Payton. You have no home field advantage, the stadium will be filled with the opposing teams fans. And Dean Spanos is one of the worst owners in the sport.
That's an awful job, but yes you've got a QB. Good luck winning the division though. Eli was right to avoid that organization.
What does brand have to do with an opportunity to win? The Chargers job is "add water and stir" because of Herbert. And you don't have to win the division to make the playoffs.
The NYG job has to deal with Philly and Dallas and the team is without a QB.
Thrown for more yards, touchdowns, for a higher completion percentage, all while being in the league for one less year.
With a bum hand the last three weeks Herbert has tripled Jones 2023 touchdown output. Again; what has Jones shown more than Herbert?
And Herbert played half the year in 2022 with broken rib cartilage.
Imagine if the Giants and Chargers jobs were the only two job openings. If every coach were offered both jobs, is there any doubt they would all choose the Chargers job?
LOL, more excuses for Hebert. His stats should be significantly better, he's had two of the top of the WR's in the league, plus one of the best all around RB's in the league.
The injuries excuse is fucking bullshit. But not surprising that some posters would offer that up.
LOL, more excuses for Hebert. His stats should be significantly better, he's had two of the top of the WR's in the league, plus one of the best all around RB's in the league.
The injuries excuse is fucking bullshit. But not surprising that some posters would offer that up.
The word you are looking for is context, not excuses.
If a player suddenly struggles, doesn't it make sense to understand why?
That is similar to what Carolina offered. This gives the Giants the choice of Maye or Daniels. I'm assuming the Bears take Williams at 1.
Do you make this trade?
Absolutely zero reason to include Hyatt and that would be dumb. I would counter with 2024 2nd and the 2025 1st. It’s not going to cost that much to move up 5 spots. Including Hyatt would be a deal breaker for me. He has proven already that he may be able to be a game changing WR. Not a true #1 but he’s going to be good.
Terps, teams that are able to draft a player like Thibodeaux don’t just trade him away after 2 seasons.
And you are forgetting that we went to the playoffs and won a playoff game in Thibodeaux’s first season! Was that a “waste” of a season? Jesus.
This is beyond dumb. He’s been in the league for 2 years, this current season, which is not over by the way, has been pretty bad. The guy was a big reason we made the playoffs and now is playing his way into being an all pro.
That's similar to what the Panthers traded to move from 9 to 1 this year. The Giants would be moving to 2, so it probably would be less, but could be a similar jump.
That's similar to what the Panthers traded to move from 9 to 1 this year. The Giants would be moving to 2, so it probably would be less, but could be a similar jump.
And every Panthers fan that I know said that they have up too much.
The Panthers are being run by a horrible GM. They traded Moore but somehow didn’t trade Brian Burns for multiple 1st round picks when they were rebuilding.
I’m no longer of the opinion that you should mortgage the future or trade a ton of assets to get a QB if you are not a Super Bowl contender.
Keep building the team with smart picks. Build an awesome roster. Pivot to QB if it makes sense and when that needs to happen
My opinion, it would not make a ton of sense for Giants to trade their 2025 1st round pick and a lot of other assets for a QB. Would I hate it? No, I wouldn’t. But I’d prefer option B especially since we need a shit load more talent on this team than just an upgrade at QB.
LOL, more excuses for Hebert. His stats should be significantly better, he's had two of the top of the WR's in the league, plus one of the best all around RB's in the league.
The injuries excuse is fucking bullshit. But not surprising that some posters would offer that up.
The word you are looking for is context, not excuses.
If a player suddenly struggles, doesn't it make sense to understand why?
Well, he's never performed to the level that you've drooled about him, but that's not surprising. You've made excuses for him ever since he entered the league.
He's been good, no question. But the level you've been droning on about. He's not "elite". Never has been. But carry on...
Herbert is an awesome player. But things don’t seem to click when it matters the most with him. So far anyway. I’m not confident that they are going to win any game if it’s tied in the 4th or they are trailing by 3, etc.
I’m no longer of the opinion that you should mortgage the future or trade a ton of assets to get a QB if you are not a Super Bowl contender.
Keep building the team with smart picks. Build an awesome roster. Pivot to QB if it makes sense and when that needs to happen
My opinion, it would not make a ton of sense for Giants to trade their 2025 1st round pick and a lot of other assets for a QB. Would I hate it? No, I wouldn’t. But I’d prefer option B especially since we need a shit load more talent on this team than just an upgrade at QB.
This is why I think Jones got the deal. Build for a few years with Jones. Reassess the Jones deal in 2025 and either move on or restructure and continue to commit to him. I'm sure Schoen felt they could compete for a playoff spot while building the roster and he'd make the QB upgrade when the opportunity presented itself. Unfortunately, it's been the worst case scenario in year 1 of the deal.
Herbert is an awesome player. But things don’t seem to click when it matters the most with him. So far anyway. I’m not confident that they are going to win any game if it’s tied in the 4th or they are trailing by 3, etc.
I actually agree with the direction of this. I think it's actually more of a team issue - the D has failed too many times when it matters - but Herbert has missed opportunities at times to optimize situations. Instead of getting a TD, for example, the offense settles for a FG and then the D fails to hold.
They need to blow up that coaching staff. Spanos was too cheap to pay Payton last year, which is why he ended up in Denver because the Waltons aren't cheap.
I’m no longer of the opinion that you should mortgage the future or trade a ton of assets to get a QB if you are not a Super Bowl contender.
Keep building the team with smart picks. Build an awesome roster. Pivot to QB if it makes sense and when that needs to happen
My opinion, it would not make a ton of sense for Giants to trade their 2025 1st round pick and a lot of other assets for a QB. Would I hate it? No, I wouldn’t. But I’d prefer option B especially since we need a shit load more talent on this team than just an upgrade at QB.
This is why I think Jones got the deal. Build for a few years with Jones. Reassess the Jones deal in 2025 and either move on or restructure and continue to commit to him. I'm sure Schoen felt they could compete for a playoff spot while building the roster and he'd make the QB upgrade when the opportunity presented itself. Unfortunately, it's been the worst case scenario in year 1 of the deal.
I agree, and in that context it made a lot of (still makes a lot of) sense. Then they went and under-prepared for the season trying to keep people healthy (that clearly back-fired) and made some bad personnel decisions that basically tanked the year. Waller and Campbell end up as duds really, compared to what we all thought they would bring to the table. And Once Thomas was hurt we were toast, and really thanks to Ezeudu (and McGaughey?). I think they overvalued Ezeudu and McKethan, undervalued Philips (as swing tackle) and Feliciano (as Guard and Center depth). They stuck with Peart and Lemieux which was ridiculous, and then start Ezeudu at LT when Thomas goes down? I am still scratching my head at what the hell they were thinking.
Herbert is an awesome player. But things don’t seem to click when it matters the most with him. So far anyway. I’m not confident that they are going to win any game if it’s tied in the 4th or they are trailing by 3, etc.
I actually agree with the direction of this. I think it's actually more of a team issue - the D has failed too many times when it matters - but Herbert has missed opportunities at times to optimize situations. Instead of getting a TD, for example, the offense settles for a FG and then the D fails to hold.
They need to blow up that coaching staff. Spanos was too cheap to pay Payton last year, which is why he ended up in Denver because the Waltons aren't cheap.
So you admit that he's failed some - getting a FG instead of a TD - but that's somehow the fault of the coaching?
You've claimed for a while that he's "elite"; well, if he's that elite he can overcome the coaching. Especially when he's had TWO elite WR (at least most of the time) and elite RB.
But the coaching is why he's choked on the field and scored a FG instead of a TD. Right?
His team is currently 4-7. And he's made the playoffs a whopping ONE time. And it that game, his stats were 273 yards, 58 comp %, 1 TD and 84.7 rating. What is elite about any of those stats?
LOL, more excuses for Hebert. His stats should be significantly better, he's had two of the top of the WR's in the league, plus one of the best all around RB's in the league.
The injuries excuse is fucking bullshit. But not surprising that some posters would offer that up.
The word you are looking for is context, not excuses.
If a player suddenly struggles, doesn't it make sense to understand why?
Well, he's never performed to the level that you've drooled about him, but that's not surprising. You've made excuses for him ever since he entered the league.
He's been good, no question. But the level you've been droning on about. He's not "elite". Never has been. But carry on...
Terps, teams that are able to draft a player like Thibodeaux don’t just trade him away after 2 seasons.
And you are forgetting that we went to the playoffs and won a playoff game in Thibodeaux’s first season! Was that a “waste” of a season? Jesus.
This is beyond dumb. He’s been in the league for 2 years, this current season, which is not over by the way, has been pretty bad. The guy was a big reason we made the playoffs and now is playing his way into being an all pro.
You like calling everything you don't agree with dumb. The Giants do a lot of the things you want them to do, and the result is they are laughingstock.
It would be nice to see them try something else for once. We want them to compete for titles, and what they are doing is not working.
I'd rather not trade Thibodeaux, or Hyatt, or any other young player that could honestly be considered a good building block. But we're not going to compete for titles with Daniel Jones as the quarterback, and this draft may be the best shot in a couple years that we get to acquire an actual top shelf QB. And while those young players might be good building blocks, the house is built on sand until we have an actual quality QB. We haven't had good QB play since before Jones even got here.
Herbert is an awesome player. But things don’t seem to click when it matters the most with him. So far anyway. I’m not confident that they are going to win any game if it’s tied in the 4th or they are trailing by 3, etc.
I actually agree with the direction of this. I think it's actually more of a team issue - the D has failed too many times when it matters - but Herbert has missed opportunities at times to optimize situations. Instead of getting a TD, for example, the offense settles for a FG and then the D fails to hold.
They need to blow up that coaching staff. Spanos was too cheap to pay Payton last year, which is why he ended up in Denver because the Waltons aren't cheap.
So you admit that he's failed some - getting a FG instead of a TD - but that's somehow the fault of the coaching?
You've claimed for a while that he's "elite"; well, if he's that elite he can overcome the coaching. Especially when he's had TWO elite WR (at least most of the time) and elite RB.
But the coaching is why he's choked on the field and scored a FG instead of a TD. Right?
His team is currently 4-7. And he's made the playoffs a whopping ONE time. And it that game, his stats were 273 yards, 58 comp %, 1 TD and 84.7 rating. What is elite about any of those stats?
Let's be fair here. Those elite receivers have missed significant time. Williams has played 3 games this year.
Last year, he was hurt 3 different times causing him to miss games.
In games where Williams started and played the majority of the game, Herbert was 8-3 last year. In games where Williams was out, plus I'll add the week 10 K.C. game where he only played 6 snaps before getting hurt, and the week 18 game where he missed 2/3rds of the game after getting hurt again, the Chargers were 2-5, with wins against Atlanta and Arizona.
This year he's only played 3 games.
Last year Keenan Allen missed most of week 1 and week 7 (all but a third of the offensive snaps), and all of 7 other games. Allen missed all but about 3 quarters of football through week 10 (9 games) last year. Herbert had both Williams and Allen together and healthy for about 4 out of 18 games last year. Not to mention Herbert lost his starting left tackle; Slater missed all but 10 quarters of the season last year (hurt early third quarter of week 3), and Herbert suffered the cracked ribs early and later in the year suffered a shoulder injury that needed surgical repair after the season (that he played through).
All I'm saying is that if you're going to make the argument he's had the benefit of playing with these two elite WR weapons, then you might point to the time where he actually had both of them available, and the last time he did (2021, when both Allen and Williams played 16 games), the guy threw for 5,000 yards and 38 TDs.
Last year just about everything went wrong for the Chargers, and this year hasn't been a whole lot different for them. And if we want to talk about DJ suffering a bad OL, the Chargers line in 2022 was almost as bad as the Giants last year per ESPN team pass block win rate, 23rd in the NFL at 57%, compared to NYG 52%, and they were just as bad run blocking, both teams at 70%, tied for 26th. Meanwhile, this year Herbert has thrown for just over 2800 yards and a 20-6 TD-INT at 66.2%.
Herbert is a terrific QB. He's top 5 in QBR, top 10 in about every meaningful QB metric. The problems with the Chargers are multi-faceted but he's not one of them. They have poor depth and they have gotten crushed with injuries to very important players to their success over the last two seasons. Their defense is ranked near the bottom of he league. They've allowed the 8th most points and the 4th most yards, and the only teams that have allowed more yards have played one more game than them as they haven't had their bye yet (Commanders, Giants, Cardinals).
You can't pin the Chargers' struggles on Herbert.
RE: Passing on Jayden Daniels would be difficult to accept
The production is extraordinary on an ok LSU team. And if you watch his highlights you'll see him making big time throws, outrunning angles against SEC defenders, and protecting himself well enough that he has a clean jersey with 200 yards rushing.
I do not understand the rationale of passing on this player in the draft.
I think the trajectory he's on will send him to the Bears #1 overall.
The production is extraordinary on an ok LSU team. And if you watch his highlights you'll see him making big time throws, outrunning angles against SEC defenders, and protecting himself well enough that he has a clean jersey with 200 yards rushing.
I do not understand the rationale of passing on this player in the draft.
I think the trajectory he's on will send him to the Bears #1 overall.
That would shake Justin Fields free. I hope Schoen is all over that situation.
RE: Passing on Jayden Daniels would be difficult to accept
The production is extraordinary on an ok LSU team. And if you watch his highlights you'll see him making big time throws, outrunning angles against SEC defenders, and protecting himself well enough that he has a clean jersey with 200 yards rushing.
I do not understand the rationale of passing on this player in the draft.
Terps what do you see with his reads and progression? I have only seen Daniels for about 2 quarters. I did a quick read and it was mentioned he is a 1 read QB. Just like we have now. Cannot have that again.
From what I did see, I like Daniels. Good arm, seems accurate with touch(limited views by me). He did seem to scoot early.
Herbert is an awesome player. But things don’t seem to click when it matters the most with him. So far anyway. I’m not confident that they are going to win any game if it’s tied in the 4th or they are trailing by 3, etc.
I actually agree with the direction of this. I think it's actually more of a team issue - the D has failed too many times when it matters - but Herbert has missed opportunities at times to optimize situations. Instead of getting a TD, for example, the offense settles for a FG and then the D fails to hold.
They need to blow up that coaching staff. Spanos was too cheap to pay Payton last year, which is why he ended up in Denver because the Waltons aren't cheap.
So you admit that he's failed some - getting a FG instead of a TD - but that's somehow the fault of the coaching?
You've claimed for a while that he's "elite"; well, if he's that elite he can overcome the coaching. Especially when he's had TWO elite WR (at least most of the time) and elite RB.
But the coaching is why he's choked on the field and scored a FG instead of a TD. Right?
His team is currently 4-7. And he's made the playoffs a whopping ONE time. And it that game, his stats were 273 yards, 58 comp %, 1 TD and 84.7 rating. What is elite about any of those stats?
Let's be fair here. Those elite receivers have missed significant time. Williams has played 3 games this year.
Last year, he was hurt 3 different times causing him to miss games.
In games where Williams started and played the majority of the game, Herbert was 8-3 last year. In games where Williams was out, plus I'll add the week 10 K.C. game where he only played 6 snaps before getting hurt, and the week 18 game where he missed 2/3rds of the game after getting hurt again, the Chargers were 2-5, with wins against Atlanta and Arizona.
This year he's only played 3 games.
Last year Keenan Allen missed most of week 1 and week 7 (all but a third of the offensive snaps), and all of 7 other games. Allen missed all but about 3 quarters of football through week 10 (9 games) last year. Herbert had both Williams and Allen together and healthy for about 4 out of 18 games last year. Not to mention Herbert lost his starting left tackle; Slater missed all but 10 quarters of the season last year (hurt early third quarter of week 3), and Herbert suffered the cracked ribs early and later in the year suffered a shoulder injury that needed surgical repair after the season (that he played through).
All I'm saying is that if you're going to make the argument he's had the benefit of playing with these two elite WR weapons, then you might point to the time where he actually had both of them available, and the last time he did (2021, when both Allen and Williams played 16 games), the guy threw for 5,000 yards and 38 TDs.
Last year just about everything went wrong for the Chargers, and this year hasn't been a whole lot different for them. And if we want to talk about DJ suffering a bad OL, the Chargers line in 2022 was almost as bad as the Giants last year per ESPN team pass block win rate, 23rd in the NFL at 57%, compared to NYG 52%, and they were just as bad run blocking, both teams at 70%, tied for 26th. Meanwhile, this year Herbert has thrown for just over 2800 yards and a 20-6 TD-INT at 66.2%.
Herbert is a terrific QB. He's top 5 in QBR, top 10 in about every meaningful QB metric. The problems with the Chargers are multi-faceted but he's not one of them. They have poor depth and they have gotten crushed with injuries to very important players to their success over the last two seasons. Their defense is ranked near the bottom of he league. They've allowed the 8th most points and the 4th most yards, and the only teams that have allowed more yards have played one more game than them as they haven't had their bye yet (Commanders, Giants, Cardinals).
You can't pin the Chargers' struggles on Herbert.
That should be the last we hear from speedy on this topic.
That should be the last we hear from speedy on this topic.
Sadly, it won't be.
Watched the Chargers the other day wondering why they are 4-8. They are extremely mediocre.
Was not impressed at all by Herbert's performance, frankly.
And yet, somehow you can watch Daniel Jones and be impressed with his performance.
At a certain point, if this isn't parody, I have to wonder if one of us just doesn't know what should actually look impressive. I accept that it could be me.
That should be the last we hear from speedy on this topic.
Sadly, it won't be.
Watched the Chargers the other day wondering why they are 4-8. They are extremely mediocre.
Was not impressed at all by Herbert's performance, frankly.
And yet, somehow you can watch Daniel Jones and be impressed with his performance.
At a certain point, if this isn't parody, I have to wonder if one of us just doesn't know what should actually look impressive. I accept that it could be me.
Where did I say anything about Jones....I have been off Jones for quite a while.
Where did I say anything about Jones....I have been off Jones for quite a while.
You're right, that wasn't fair. My intent was more that "there are some fans who will claim that Herbert is unimpressive while they simultaneously express a strong level of admiration for Jones's level of play." We have posters on this very thread crying about making excuses for Herbert when they are the loudest voices making excuses for Jones (and they were the same fans who defended Gettleman tooth and nail, one of which ran away with his tail between his legs at the end of DG's tenure and only comes back occasionally to remind us all that he's still a blowhard).
I shouldn't have directed it as a response to your opinion in particular.
Herbert is a terrific QB. He's top 5 in QBR, top 10 in about every meaningful QB metric. The problems with the Chargers are multi-faceted but he's not one of them. They have poor depth and they have gotten crushed with injuries to very important players to their success over the last two seasons. Their defense is ranked near the bottom of he league. They've allowed the 8th most points and the 4th most yards, and the only teams that have allowed more yards have played one more game than them as they haven't had their bye yet (Commanders, Giants, Cardinals).
You can't pin the Chargers' struggles on Herbert.
Good stuff. I've provided a lot of this to speedy and his ilk in the past and it was dusted off as mere excuses.
I'm a declared card-carrying member of the JHFC. I think he's a tremendously gifted QB. But I have noticed some drop off in his game this year where he's missed some key plays. He's making the right decisions, but the execution has been off. Whether he's pressing or the line-up changes are creating issues, I do see some pullback.
Where did I say anything about Jones....I have been off Jones for quite a while.
You're right, that wasn't fair. My intent was more that "there are some fans who will claim that Herbert is unimpressive while they simultaneously express a strong level of admiration for Jones's level of play." We have posters on this very thread crying about making excuses for Herbert when they are the loudest voices making excuses for Jones (and they were the same fans who defended Gettleman tooth and nail, one of which ran away with his tail between his legs at the end of DG's tenure and only comes back occasionally to remind us all that he's still a blowhard).
I shouldn't have directed it as a response to your opinion in particular.
LMAO, that is literally the only reason I opened this thread and now I can't stop reading. It's like a throwback to BBI 2005, with slightly less curse words.
Devito has given fans a reason to watch the games. Given his head coach a guy who looks downfield first instead of looking at the chains first. Given his teammates some energy and spirit.
Time will tell what level of play Devito will ultimately achieve but I enjoy watching him play and I feel a sense of hope when he plays.
At this point I will take that.
If Joe & Dabs are dumb enough to hitch their ride to DJ going forward, neither of them are long for this organization provided winning is something that still matters. It might not to John, just as long as he can Jones is the first one in the building, calls John 'Mr. Mara', & do whatever else he does that casts a spell on that clown of an owner.
Forcing a QB pick at the top of the draft just because they fear they will be fired is about a triple worse outcome instead of taking BPA.
I do not understand the rationale of passing on this player in the draft.
If Schoen and the scouts support vote yes on Daniels , I support Trading away whatever it takes to get him on the team. If.
If he translates to the NFL, he’s a franchise changing player.
I do not understand the rationale of passing on this player in the draft.
Check out the YPA. It's incredible.
Fine with me. There's nothing on the team I wouldn't trade, including Thibodeaux who I would consider our most valuable asset.
The actual good players on this team: Lawrence, Thomas, Thibodeaux, Hyatt, Banks, Okereke... we're just wasting their time and ours right now. Just throwing away years.
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Might have to trade up for Daniels though.
Fine with me. There's nothing on the team I wouldn't trade, including Thibodeaux who I would consider our most valuable asset.
The actual good players on this team: Lawrence, Thomas, Thibodeaux, Hyatt, Banks, Okereke... we're just wasting their time and ours right now. Just throwing away years.
You would trade away the most promising pass rusher we’ve had since Michael Strahan for a chance to draft Jayden Daniels?
With a bum hand the last three weeks Herbert has tripled Jones 2023 touchdown output. Again; what has Jones shown more than Herbert?
And Herbert played half the year in 2022 with broken rib cartilage.
Imagine if the Giants and Chargers jobs were the only two job openings. If every coach were offered both jobs, is there any doubt they would all choose the Chargers job?
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In comment 16307965 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Might have to trade up for Daniels though.
Fine with me. There's nothing on the team I wouldn't trade, including Thibodeaux who I would consider our most valuable asset.
The actual good players on this team: Lawrence, Thomas, Thibodeaux, Hyatt, Banks, Okereke... we're just wasting their time and ours right now. Just throwing away years.
You would trade away the most promising pass rusher we’ve had since Michael Strahan for a chance to draft Jayden Daniels?
I would. And I have nothing against Thibodeaux. One of the few good things on this team.
We've already wasted two years of having him on the cheap. I'm not itching to trade him - I'd rather trade picks - but we're wasting everyone's time with this zero at quarterback.
That's an awful job, but yes you've got a QB. Good luck winning the division though. Eli was right to avoid that organization.
#2 overall pick
ARI receives
NYG 2024 1st round pick (7-9 range)
NYG 2024 2nd round pick
NYG 2025 1st round pick
NYG 2025 3rd round pick
Jalin Hyatt
That is similar to what Carolina offered. This gives the Giants the choice of Maye or Daniels. I'm assuming the Bears take Williams at 1.
Do you make this trade?
That's an awful job, but yes you've got a QB. Good luck winning the division though. Eli was right to avoid that organization.
What does brand have to do with an opportunity to win? The Chargers job is "add water and stir" because of Herbert. And you don't have to win the division to make the playoffs.
The NYG job has to deal with Philly and Dallas and the team is without a QB.
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Thrown for more yards, touchdowns, for a higher completion percentage, all while being in the league for one less year.
With a bum hand the last three weeks Herbert has tripled Jones 2023 touchdown output. Again; what has Jones shown more than Herbert?
And Herbert played half the year in 2022 with broken rib cartilage.
Imagine if the Giants and Chargers jobs were the only two job openings. If every coach were offered both jobs, is there any doubt they would all choose the Chargers job?
LOL, more excuses for Hebert. His stats should be significantly better, he's had two of the top of the WR's in the league, plus one of the best all around RB's in the league.
The injuries excuse is fucking bullshit. But not surprising that some posters would offer that up.
#2 overall pick
ARI receives
NYG 2024 1st round pick (7-9 range)
NYG 2024 2nd round pick
NYG 2025 1st round pick
NYG 2025 3rd round pick
Jalin Hyatt
That is similar to what Carolina offered. This gives the Giants the choice of Maye or Daniels. I'm assuming the Bears take Williams at 1.
Do you make this trade?
Damn. That's a lot. I probably wouldn't.
LOL, more excuses for Hebert. His stats should be significantly better, he's had two of the top of the WR's in the league, plus one of the best all around RB's in the league.
The injuries excuse is fucking bullshit. But not surprising that some posters would offer that up.
The word you are looking for is context, not excuses.
If a player suddenly struggles, doesn't it make sense to understand why?
#2 overall pick
ARI receives
NYG 2024 1st round pick (7-9 range)
NYG 2024 2nd round pick
NYG 2025 1st round pick
NYG 2025 3rd round pick
Jalin Hyatt
That is similar to what Carolina offered. This gives the Giants the choice of Maye or Daniels. I'm assuming the Bears take Williams at 1.
Do you make this trade?
Absolutely zero reason to include Hyatt and that would be dumb. I would counter with 2024 2nd and the 2025 1st. It’s not going to cost that much to move up 5 spots. Including Hyatt would be a deal breaker for me. He has proven already that he may be able to be a game changing WR. Not a true #1 but he’s going to be good.
So, no trade for me on that proposal.
And you are forgetting that we went to the playoffs and won a playoff game in Thibodeaux’s first season! Was that a “waste” of a season? Jesus.
This is beyond dumb. He’s been in the league for 2 years, this current season, which is not over by the way, has been pretty bad. The guy was a big reason we made the playoffs and now is playing his way into being an all pro.
#2 overall pick
ARI receives
NYG 2024 1st round pick (7-9 range)
NYG 2024 2nd round pick
NYG 2025 1st round pick
NYG 2025 3rd round pick
Jalin Hyatt
Yup.
That is similar to what Carolina offered. This gives the Giants the choice of Maye or Daniels. I'm assuming the Bears take Williams at 1.
Do you make this trade?
And every Panthers fan that I know said that they have up too much.
Nothing they do is smart. Including that trade.
Keep building the team with smart picks. Build an awesome roster. Pivot to QB if it makes sense and when that needs to happen
My opinion, it would not make a ton of sense for Giants to trade their 2025 1st round pick and a lot of other assets for a QB. Would I hate it? No, I wouldn’t. But I’d prefer option B especially since we need a shit load more talent on this team than just an upgrade at QB.
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LOL, more excuses for Hebert. His stats should be significantly better, he's had two of the top of the WR's in the league, plus one of the best all around RB's in the league.
The injuries excuse is fucking bullshit. But not surprising that some posters would offer that up.
The word you are looking for is context, not excuses.
If a player suddenly struggles, doesn't it make sense to understand why?
Well, he's never performed to the level that you've drooled about him, but that's not surprising. You've made excuses for him ever since he entered the league.
He's been good, no question. But the level you've been droning on about. He's not "elite". Never has been. But carry on...
Keep building the team with smart picks. Build an awesome roster. Pivot to QB if it makes sense and when that needs to happen
My opinion, it would not make a ton of sense for Giants to trade their 2025 1st round pick and a lot of other assets for a QB. Would I hate it? No, I wouldn’t. But I’d prefer option B especially since we need a shit load more talent on this team than just an upgrade at QB.
This is why I think Jones got the deal. Build for a few years with Jones. Reassess the Jones deal in 2025 and either move on or restructure and continue to commit to him. I'm sure Schoen felt they could compete for a playoff spot while building the roster and he'd make the QB upgrade when the opportunity presented itself. Unfortunately, it's been the worst case scenario in year 1 of the deal.
I actually agree with the direction of this. I think it's actually more of a team issue - the D has failed too many times when it matters - but Herbert has missed opportunities at times to optimize situations. Instead of getting a TD, for example, the offense settles for a FG and then the D fails to hold.
They need to blow up that coaching staff. Spanos was too cheap to pay Payton last year, which is why he ended up in Denver because the Waltons aren't cheap.
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I’m no longer of the opinion that you should mortgage the future or trade a ton of assets to get a QB if you are not a Super Bowl contender.
Keep building the team with smart picks. Build an awesome roster. Pivot to QB if it makes sense and when that needs to happen
My opinion, it would not make a ton of sense for Giants to trade their 2025 1st round pick and a lot of other assets for a QB. Would I hate it? No, I wouldn’t. But I’d prefer option B especially since we need a shit load more talent on this team than just an upgrade at QB.
This is why I think Jones got the deal. Build for a few years with Jones. Reassess the Jones deal in 2025 and either move on or restructure and continue to commit to him. I'm sure Schoen felt they could compete for a playoff spot while building the roster and he'd make the QB upgrade when the opportunity presented itself. Unfortunately, it's been the worst case scenario in year 1 of the deal.
I agree, and in that context it made a lot of (still makes a lot of) sense. Then they went and under-prepared for the season trying to keep people healthy (that clearly back-fired) and made some bad personnel decisions that basically tanked the year. Waller and Campbell end up as duds really, compared to what we all thought they would bring to the table. And Once Thomas was hurt we were toast, and really thanks to Ezeudu (and McGaughey?). I think they overvalued Ezeudu and McKethan, undervalued Philips (as swing tackle) and Feliciano (as Guard and Center depth). They stuck with Peart and Lemieux which was ridiculous, and then start Ezeudu at LT when Thomas goes down? I am still scratching my head at what the hell they were thinking.
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Herbert is an awesome player. But things don’t seem to click when it matters the most with him. So far anyway. I’m not confident that they are going to win any game if it’s tied in the 4th or they are trailing by 3, etc.
I actually agree with the direction of this. I think it's actually more of a team issue - the D has failed too many times when it matters - but Herbert has missed opportunities at times to optimize situations. Instead of getting a TD, for example, the offense settles for a FG and then the D fails to hold.
They need to blow up that coaching staff. Spanos was too cheap to pay Payton last year, which is why he ended up in Denver because the Waltons aren't cheap.
So you admit that he's failed some - getting a FG instead of a TD - but that's somehow the fault of the coaching?
You've claimed for a while that he's "elite"; well, if he's that elite he can overcome the coaching. Especially when he's had TWO elite WR (at least most of the time) and elite RB.
But the coaching is why he's choked on the field and scored a FG instead of a TD. Right?
His team is currently 4-7. And he's made the playoffs a whopping ONE time. And it that game, his stats were 273 yards, 58 comp %, 1 TD and 84.7 rating. What is elite about any of those stats?
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In comment 16308007 speedywheels said:
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LOL, more excuses for Hebert. His stats should be significantly better, he's had two of the top of the WR's in the league, plus one of the best all around RB's in the league.
The injuries excuse is fucking bullshit. But not surprising that some posters would offer that up.
The word you are looking for is context, not excuses.
If a player suddenly struggles, doesn't it make sense to understand why?
Well, he's never performed to the level that you've drooled about him, but that's not surprising. You've made excuses for him ever since he entered the league.
He's been good, no question. But the level you've been droning on about. He's not "elite". Never has been. But carry on...
You're really going to talk about making excuses?
And you are forgetting that we went to the playoffs and won a playoff game in Thibodeaux’s first season! Was that a “waste” of a season? Jesus.
This is beyond dumb. He’s been in the league for 2 years, this current season, which is not over by the way, has been pretty bad. The guy was a big reason we made the playoffs and now is playing his way into being an all pro.
You like calling everything you don't agree with dumb. The Giants do a lot of the things you want them to do, and the result is they are laughingstock.
It would be nice to see them try something else for once. We want them to compete for titles, and what they are doing is not working.
I'd rather not trade Thibodeaux, or Hyatt, or any other young player that could honestly be considered a good building block. But we're not going to compete for titles with Daniel Jones as the quarterback, and this draft may be the best shot in a couple years that we get to acquire an actual top shelf QB. And while those young players might be good building blocks, the house is built on sand until we have an actual quality QB. We haven't had good QB play since before Jones even got here.
We've been trying it your way. Enough already.
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In comment 16308040 ryanmkeane said:
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Herbert is an awesome player. But things don’t seem to click when it matters the most with him. So far anyway. I’m not confident that they are going to win any game if it’s tied in the 4th or they are trailing by 3, etc.
I actually agree with the direction of this. I think it's actually more of a team issue - the D has failed too many times when it matters - but Herbert has missed opportunities at times to optimize situations. Instead of getting a TD, for example, the offense settles for a FG and then the D fails to hold.
They need to blow up that coaching staff. Spanos was too cheap to pay Payton last year, which is why he ended up in Denver because the Waltons aren't cheap.
So you admit that he's failed some - getting a FG instead of a TD - but that's somehow the fault of the coaching?
You've claimed for a while that he's "elite"; well, if he's that elite he can overcome the coaching. Especially when he's had TWO elite WR (at least most of the time) and elite RB.
But the coaching is why he's choked on the field and scored a FG instead of a TD. Right?
His team is currently 4-7. And he's made the playoffs a whopping ONE time. And it that game, his stats were 273 yards, 58 comp %, 1 TD and 84.7 rating. What is elite about any of those stats?
Let's be fair here. Those elite receivers have missed significant time. Williams has played 3 games this year.
Last year, he was hurt 3 different times causing him to miss games.
In games where Williams started and played the majority of the game, Herbert was 8-3 last year. In games where Williams was out, plus I'll add the week 10 K.C. game where he only played 6 snaps before getting hurt, and the week 18 game where he missed 2/3rds of the game after getting hurt again, the Chargers were 2-5, with wins against Atlanta and Arizona.
This year he's only played 3 games.
Last year Keenan Allen missed most of week 1 and week 7 (all but a third of the offensive snaps), and all of 7 other games. Allen missed all but about 3 quarters of football through week 10 (9 games) last year. Herbert had both Williams and Allen together and healthy for about 4 out of 18 games last year. Not to mention Herbert lost his starting left tackle; Slater missed all but 10 quarters of the season last year (hurt early third quarter of week 3), and Herbert suffered the cracked ribs early and later in the year suffered a shoulder injury that needed surgical repair after the season (that he played through).
All I'm saying is that if you're going to make the argument he's had the benefit of playing with these two elite WR weapons, then you might point to the time where he actually had both of them available, and the last time he did (2021, when both Allen and Williams played 16 games), the guy threw for 5,000 yards and 38 TDs.
Last year just about everything went wrong for the Chargers, and this year hasn't been a whole lot different for them. And if we want to talk about DJ suffering a bad OL, the Chargers line in 2022 was almost as bad as the Giants last year per ESPN team pass block win rate, 23rd in the NFL at 57%, compared to NYG 52%, and they were just as bad run blocking, both teams at 70%, tied for 26th. Meanwhile, this year Herbert has thrown for just over 2800 yards and a 20-6 TD-INT at 66.2%.
Herbert is a terrific QB. He's top 5 in QBR, top 10 in about every meaningful QB metric. The problems with the Chargers are multi-faceted but he's not one of them. They have poor depth and they have gotten crushed with injuries to very important players to their success over the last two seasons. Their defense is ranked near the bottom of he league. They've allowed the 8th most points and the 4th most yards, and the only teams that have allowed more yards have played one more game than them as they haven't had their bye yet (Commanders, Giants, Cardinals).
You can't pin the Chargers' struggles on Herbert.
I do not understand the rationale of passing on this player in the draft.
I think the trajectory he's on will send him to the Bears #1 overall.
Not to mention Thibodeaux is better right now than Osi was at that point.
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The production is extraordinary on an ok LSU team. And if you watch his highlights you'll see him making big time throws, outrunning angles against SEC defenders, and protecting himself well enough that he has a clean jersey with 200 yards rushing.
I do not understand the rationale of passing on this player in the draft.
I think the trajectory he's on will send him to the Bears #1 overall.
That would shake Justin Fields free. I hope Schoen is all over that situation.
I do not understand the rationale of passing on this player in the draft.
Terps what do you see with his reads and progression? I have only seen Daniels for about 2 quarters. I did a quick read and it was mentioned he is a 1 read QB. Just like we have now. Cannot have that again.
From what I did see, I like Daniels. Good arm, seems accurate with touch(limited views by me). He did seem to scoot early.
Slighty worried about that extremely thin build.
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In comment 16308053 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16308040 ryanmkeane said:
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Herbert is an awesome player. But things don’t seem to click when it matters the most with him. So far anyway. I’m not confident that they are going to win any game if it’s tied in the 4th or they are trailing by 3, etc.
I actually agree with the direction of this. I think it's actually more of a team issue - the D has failed too many times when it matters - but Herbert has missed opportunities at times to optimize situations. Instead of getting a TD, for example, the offense settles for a FG and then the D fails to hold.
They need to blow up that coaching staff. Spanos was too cheap to pay Payton last year, which is why he ended up in Denver because the Waltons aren't cheap.
So you admit that he's failed some - getting a FG instead of a TD - but that's somehow the fault of the coaching?
You've claimed for a while that he's "elite"; well, if he's that elite he can overcome the coaching. Especially when he's had TWO elite WR (at least most of the time) and elite RB.
But the coaching is why he's choked on the field and scored a FG instead of a TD. Right?
His team is currently 4-7. And he's made the playoffs a whopping ONE time. And it that game, his stats were 273 yards, 58 comp %, 1 TD and 84.7 rating. What is elite about any of those stats?
Let's be fair here. Those elite receivers have missed significant time. Williams has played 3 games this year.
Last year, he was hurt 3 different times causing him to miss games.
In games where Williams started and played the majority of the game, Herbert was 8-3 last year. In games where Williams was out, plus I'll add the week 10 K.C. game where he only played 6 snaps before getting hurt, and the week 18 game where he missed 2/3rds of the game after getting hurt again, the Chargers were 2-5, with wins against Atlanta and Arizona.
This year he's only played 3 games.
Last year Keenan Allen missed most of week 1 and week 7 (all but a third of the offensive snaps), and all of 7 other games. Allen missed all but about 3 quarters of football through week 10 (9 games) last year. Herbert had both Williams and Allen together and healthy for about 4 out of 18 games last year. Not to mention Herbert lost his starting left tackle; Slater missed all but 10 quarters of the season last year (hurt early third quarter of week 3), and Herbert suffered the cracked ribs early and later in the year suffered a shoulder injury that needed surgical repair after the season (that he played through).
All I'm saying is that if you're going to make the argument he's had the benefit of playing with these two elite WR weapons, then you might point to the time where he actually had both of them available, and the last time he did (2021, when both Allen and Williams played 16 games), the guy threw for 5,000 yards and 38 TDs.
Last year just about everything went wrong for the Chargers, and this year hasn't been a whole lot different for them. And if we want to talk about DJ suffering a bad OL, the Chargers line in 2022 was almost as bad as the Giants last year per ESPN team pass block win rate, 23rd in the NFL at 57%, compared to NYG 52%, and they were just as bad run blocking, both teams at 70%, tied for 26th. Meanwhile, this year Herbert has thrown for just over 2800 yards and a 20-6 TD-INT at 66.2%.
Herbert is a terrific QB. He's top 5 in QBR, top 10 in about every meaningful QB metric. The problems with the Chargers are multi-faceted but he's not one of them. They have poor depth and they have gotten crushed with injuries to very important players to their success over the last two seasons. Their defense is ranked near the bottom of he league. They've allowed the 8th most points and the 4th most yards, and the only teams that have allowed more yards have played one more game than them as they haven't had their bye yet (Commanders, Giants, Cardinals).
You can't pin the Chargers' struggles on Herbert.
That should be the last we hear from speedy on this topic.
Sadly, it won't be.
You can't pin the Chargers' struggles on Herbert.
That should be the last we hear from speedy on this topic.
Sadly, it won't be.
Watched the Chargers the other day wondering why they are 4-8. They are extremely mediocre.
Was not impressed at all by Herbert's performance, frankly.
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You can't pin the Chargers' struggles on Herbert.
That should be the last we hear from speedy on this topic.
Sadly, it won't be.
Watched the Chargers the other day wondering why they are 4-8. They are extremely mediocre.
Was not impressed at all by Herbert's performance, frankly.
And yet, somehow you can watch Daniel Jones and be impressed with his performance.
At a certain point, if this isn't parody, I have to wonder if one of us just doesn't know what should actually look impressive. I accept that it could be me.
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In comment 16308181 Gatorade Dunk said:
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You can't pin the Chargers' struggles on Herbert.
That should be the last we hear from speedy on this topic.
Sadly, it won't be.
Watched the Chargers the other day wondering why they are 4-8. They are extremely mediocre.
Was not impressed at all by Herbert's performance, frankly.
And yet, somehow you can watch Daniel Jones and be impressed with his performance.
At a certain point, if this isn't parody, I have to wonder if one of us just doesn't know what should actually look impressive. I accept that it could be me.
Where did I say anything about Jones....I have been off Jones for quite a while.
You're right, that wasn't fair. My intent was more that "there are some fans who will claim that Herbert is unimpressive while they simultaneously express a strong level of admiration for Jones's level of play." We have posters on this very thread crying about making excuses for Herbert when they are the loudest voices making excuses for Jones (and they were the same fans who defended Gettleman tooth and nail, one of which ran away with his tail between his legs at the end of DG's tenure and only comes back occasionally to remind us all that he's still a blowhard).
I shouldn't have directed it as a response to your opinion in particular.
Herbert is a terrific QB. He's top 5 in QBR, top 10 in about every meaningful QB metric. The problems with the Chargers are multi-faceted but he's not one of them. They have poor depth and they have gotten crushed with injuries to very important players to their success over the last two seasons. Their defense is ranked near the bottom of he league. They've allowed the 8th most points and the 4th most yards, and the only teams that have allowed more yards have played one more game than them as they haven't had their bye yet (Commanders, Giants, Cardinals).
You can't pin the Chargers' struggles on Herbert.
Good stuff. I've provided a lot of this to speedy and his ilk in the past and it was dusted off as mere excuses.
I'm a declared card-carrying member of the JHFC. I think he's a tremendously gifted QB. But I have noticed some drop off in his game this year where he's missed some key plays. He's making the right decisions, but the execution has been off. Whether he's pressing or the line-up changes are creating issues, I do see some pullback.
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Where did I say anything about Jones....I have been off Jones for quite a while.
You're right, that wasn't fair. My intent was more that "there are some fans who will claim that Herbert is unimpressive while they simultaneously express a strong level of admiration for Jones's level of play." We have posters on this very thread crying about making excuses for Herbert when they are the loudest voices making excuses for Jones (and they were the same fans who defended Gettleman tooth and nail, one of which ran away with his tail between his legs at the end of DG's tenure and only comes back occasionally to remind us all that he's still a blowhard).
I shouldn't have directed it as a response to your opinion in particular.
Thanks.
I guess I should’ve known.
LMAO, that is literally the only reason I opened this thread and now I can't stop reading. It's like a throwback to BBI 2005, with slightly less curse words.