I will not speak about Jones until the offseason. Period.
I am breaking down games and performances. Jones is not playing anymore again - he isn't even a thought. His memory is a fart in the wind until the offseason.
One thing I have noticed these past 2-3 years - and it is the world we live in since 2020 - is that everyone has their flag planted into the ground so deep - that ANY statement that MIGHT disagree with their notion is an immediate threat and causes some to actually appear offended.
Incredibly weird times.
RE: Brock Purdy was Mr. Irrelevant just last draft
But ask yourself: How well did Eli Manning perform toward the end of his career with a non-existent O-line and no top-shelf wide receiver.
In the end, it is a lot easier for fans to just piss on Daniel Jones than to fully catalogue the utter stench of the franchise he has been a part of since 2019.
Eli had Odell.
OBJ missed almost all of 2017, was traded toward the end of 2018 and wasn’t there at all in 2019. Eli’s record wasn’t too pretty over this period.
Is an undrafted third string QB who has won two games. He plays with some ‘juice’ - competitive, confident, and he is displaying some talent - accurate throws, no hesitation, good enough arm, anticipation. Lots to like in an UNDRAFTED THIRD STRING QB.
No one’s nominating him for the HOF. He is deserving of some praise and recognition - he’s doing well and PROGRESSING. Lots to work on, everyone can see the issues; but it’s a good story and more than anyone could have expected. Let’s enjoy this, it’s a bright spot in what has been a bleak season. His performance has nothing to do with what anyone thinks about Daniel Jones; I really wish people would just assess Tommy Touchdown for what they see and not relative to their opinions of DJ.
I agree. It's all over the place. We've got Jones supporters that want to discredit DeVito (the QBR comment above). Then you've got Jones critics who want to prop up anyone as someone better than Jones (Matt Barkley implication above). You've got people talking up Fields after a 12-9 win in Minnesota when Jones seemingly doesn't get credit for the playoff win. And then just the non stop excuses for Jones on the other side (just get him an OL). Well, he's making $40M per year.
OBJ missed almost all of 2017, was traded toward the end of 2018 and wasn’t there at all in 2019. Eli’s record wasn’t too pretty over this period.
Odell was traded in the offseason. The Giants were 5-11 in 2018 despite having a dynamic WR who had 1000 yards in only 12 games. Why was that? The QB couldn’t throw touchdowns. Odell was the best WR in the NFL from 2014-2016 and the Giants had one winning record. They were one of the worst scoring teams in the league in 2016 despite having a WR go for 1300 yards and 10 tds. Why? Because they were no longer getting elite QB play.
he did not draft DeVito. Passed on him all 7 rounds. For those who believe DeVito is a better QB than Jones, why would you want Schoen sticking around to evaluate QBs this offseason when the Giants determine 1. whether they draft their next starting QB and 2. who that QB will be?
RE: It seems like the improved play and stabilization of the OL
has coincided with Evan Neal missing time. It is also around the same time frame that Andrew Thomas returned to the field.
Does the improvement have more to do with Neal not being there (was he bad enough to bring down the whole unit?) or is it more do to with Thomas returning?
The team gave up Nine Sacks against Wash and Six against the Pats... this can hardly be called improvement,
C'mon Eric, yes there are discernible differences in what DeVito and Jones bring to the game. For one, and to me most important, DeVito is not much of a runner, is slow to make the decision to run, and is just slow. Injuries may impact that part of Jones' game going forward but DeVito shows little ability to extend plays, run for a crucial first down, or make defenses prepare for QB runs. I agree that he could continue to develop into a solid backup but I just don't see him as an NFL starter. I was at the game Sunday and Tommy had open receivers right in front of him that he passed up and wound up taking sacks. I hope he gets the chance to play the rest of the games and continue to improve but he's not the answer. DeVito also has had the benefit of improved O-line play of late without free runners in his face at the snap. But fwiw, if Schoen has a chance to draft a QB that could be the answer, I think he'll take it.
Why are people so goddamn sensitive about a garden variety QB
To my untrained eye, needs to be weighed in the Bobby Johnson evaluation. They are getting better.
Given the discussion around X and his contract, worth reading Sy’s praise of his performance. I didn’t even see the trickery X used to lure the QB into throwing an INT, so thanks for educating me.
Finally, A’Shawn’s steady performance sure suggests he should be one of the vets resigned this offseason.
Yep. Every time the unit starts to gel there is a new regime to reset everything.
They O lines has gotten better, because, with the exception of Neal, they have not had injuries that forced changes since Ezeudu went out.
Daboll needs to treat the pre-season as less of a joke next year
The offensive line cannot be considered a strength, but like the team overall, it has become a reliable-at-times unit. Andrew Thomas being on the field means a ton. It cannot be understated. But watching them on tape, the unit simply looks cleaner. The first half of the season was full of defenders getting free runs to the backfield. We had blockers running into each other. And we had whiff after whiff. It is clear NYG will need to add a body or two in the offseason, that fact will not change. But can any of these guys be brought back to provide depth? Possibly even a starter spot? Chemistry means a lot and we cannot just assume they can fill these spots with a rookie or journeyman free agent. I do not believe spending big will be in their budget plans
You can't just play your starters for a quarter and expect them to be game ready week 1. Hopefully the coaching staff takes that as a lesson learned for next year. I don't really give a crap about the injury angle either, Thomas got hurt in literally the first quarter of the first game. You can make an argument he wasn't game ready because of lack of playing in the preaseason.
RE: Schoen gave Jones a $40 million a year contract
he did not draft DeVito. Passed on him all 7 rounds. For those who believe DeVito is a better QB than Jones, why would you want Schoen sticking around to evaluate QBs this offseason when the Giants determine 1. whether they draft their next starting QB and 2. who that QB will be?
That's actually a very fair question that I have posed many times the last several weeks - based on Schoen's financial commitment to Jones, why should we trust him to find a better solution to Jones?
I'll say this. I trust Daboll with QBs infinitely more than Schoen.
RE: RE: Schoen gave Jones a $40 million a year contract
he did not draft DeVito. Passed on him all 7 rounds. For those who believe DeVito is a better QB than Jones, why would you want Schoen sticking around to evaluate QBs this offseason when the Giants determine 1. whether they draft their next starting QB and 2. who that QB will be?
That's actually a very fair question that I have posed many times the last several weeks - based on Schoen's financial commitment to Jones, why should we trust him to find a better solution to Jones?
I'll say this. I trust Daboll with QBs infinitely more than Schoen.
I thought it was Mara's meddling that was at fault? You guys need to write up a QRG or something for this stuff for the rest of us.
Given the options and the situation, Schoen didn't commit a terrible sin by resigning Jones.
1) we had just made the PO's and DJ looked decent last year. It was not inconceivable to think he would improve with better talent around him and another year in the system
2) there weren't really awesome options to replace DJ
3) there rightly so was a "perception" factor - getting rid of your QB the year after he plays decently and wins a PO game is bad optics
4) the contract is essentially a 2 year deal; again, not exactly a long term anchor
in hindsight it looks bad but all things considered I don't think it disqualifies him to pick the next QB.
Until they fix the OL. I know Sy says it’s getting better and I trust his expertise, but better is not good or even acceptable. What I see is a line that cannot reliably block for the run or the pass. Thomas is very good when healthy. The rest are average to below average at this point with only the center being a rookie with growth potential. Jones is an injury risk. DeVito is one hit away from joining Jones and Taylor on the injured list.
C'mon Eric, yes there are discernible differences in what DeVito and Jones bring to the game. For one, and to me most important, DeVito is not much of a runner, is slow to make the decision to run, and is just slow. Injuries may impact that part of Jones' game going forward but DeVito shows little ability to extend plays, run for a crucial first down, or make defenses prepare for QB runs. I agree that he could continue to develop into a solid backup but I just don't see him as an NFL starter. I was at the game Sunday and Tommy had open receivers right in front of him that he passed up and wound up taking sacks. I hope he gets the chance to play the rest of the games and continue to improve but he's not the answer. DeVito also has had the benefit of improved O-line play of late without free runners in his face at the snap. But fwiw, if Schoen has a chance to draft a QB that could be the answer, I think he'll take it.
Never claimed DeVito will be a starter.
I'm claiming that Daniel Jones isn't.
I think I've been clear on this.
The longer the organization sticks with Jones, the longer we'll be a third-place team in the NFC East.
You are spot on re DeVito. It is not hype, but as you say, it is not nothing either. DeVito has progressed at an astonishing rate given that he was essentially unplayable in the Jets game as a passer just a month ago. He will probably hit a wall at some point, but these past two games against well respected defensive head coaches have been some of the best quarterback play we have seen this year. The connection he seems to have developed with Hyatt is not only a great step forward, but DeVito is the only quarterback on this roster who appears to have fully revealed the absolute treasure we really have in Hyatt. What a steal of a draft choice!
And it proves the point that Daboll is capable of coaching up any quarterback to their ceiling - a much needed reaffirmation of the astonishing results he got last year from DJ until the league figured out how to defend against the "remedial scheme".
As you mention, the next month will determine whether DeVito can be the third string backup next year behind whomever they draft in April and a lame duck DJ running out the final year of his scholarship program. I am optimistic that DeVito will meet that threshold and be the third guy in the quarterback room. I originally thought DeVito's ceiling was Jake Fromm. But after the last several games, he has me now thinking that his ceiling might be more like Taylor Heinicke? Perhaps Case Keenum? Any of which would be a much needed pleasant surprise in this season of despair.
Thanks again for your many contributions to this site. It is the best of BBI and very much appreciated!
Daboll is the developer and builds game plans to fit the QB's skills. Josh Allen doesn't mention Brandon Beane for his success. But he has mentioned Brian Daboll.
Do some of you guys really think DeVito would have won 10 games last year, including an away playoff game?
Do you really think DeVito would have performed even marginally better than Jones given the unprecedentedly terrible O-line play in the first part of this year? I know the mantra that good qbs can compensate for poor O-lines. Go rewatch the games.
I ain't no Jones apologist. I'd like to think I'm a realist and I really hope Giants identify and draft a quarterback with the potential to be the One, if for no other reason than there's too much risk in Jones' injury history But the notion that there's no difference between DeVito and Jones is just one other end of the Daniel Jones Derangement Syndrome.
Given the options and the situation, Schoen didn't commit a terrible sin by resigning Jones.
1) we had just made the PO's and DJ looked decent last year. It was not inconceivable to think he would improve with better talent around him and another year in the system
2) there weren't really awesome options to replace DJ
3) there rightly so was a "perception" factor - getting rid of your QB the year after he plays decently and wins a PO game is bad optics
4) the contract is essentially a 2 year deal; again, not exactly a long term anchor
in hindsight it looks bad but all things considered I don't think it disqualifies him to pick the next QB.
I get the idea to keep Jones after 2022. But Jones's output wasn't prolific. It was solid and he should be recognized for making plays, especially with his legs.
But the much better solution was the FT or TT. Make Jones prove that 2022 wasn't a fluke or an outlier.
Daboll is the developer and builds game plans to fit the QB's skills. Josh Allen doesn't mention Brandon Beane for his success. But he has mentioned Brian Daboll.
Yes, but it sounds like the suggestion is Schoen is going to pick a QB and Daboll just has to cook the meal. I have no reason to believe that's the dynamic. Feels foolish to think Daboll won't have a significant say on this.
I used the word "decent" with purpose... I never said prolific.
and yes, FT or TT would have been better... though these used one of them on SB so presumably that factored into the thinking. Honestly, my guess is they truly thought with better talent and another year in the system, DJ would have improved to the point where his contract was reasonable.
It turns out they were wrong and now we need to get out from under it. But i understand the thinking going into the contract negotiations.
RE: RE: RE: The pendulum on BBI has swung way too negative
on Daniel Jones. From all that I've read on this site, it's due to one of three reasons:
(1) Injuries
(2) Talent
(3) Injuries & Talent
I understand the issue over injuries (and I wish this young man would just retire for his own personal health), but it seems that his "talent" has been denigrated far beyond what he deserves, and I say that knowing full well what his limitations are.
Talent? Are we sure about that? I felt the word Go Terps used yesterday describing the NYG offense was perfect. "Remedial".... it worked because it kept things simple for Daniel. When he is asked to do more, he can't handle it.
I understand I keep harping on it, and it is a very simplistic way of looking at things, but Daniel Jones has a problem with the end zone. He can't seem to reach it. Scoring is kind of important to a QB. Dave Brown had the same problem.
Surely disconcerting about Daniel Jones lack of TD passes. It is what it is, and it ain't pretty. But it's also disconcerting that over his career Daniel Jones never had the opportunity to play with a bona-fide star like Tyreek Hill, CeeDee Lamb, A.J. Brown, Ja'Marr Chase, Davonte Smith, Travis Kelce or Jordan Jefferson, et. al. In the end, Daniel Jones may be a mediocrity (or worse), but he never threw to top shelf talent and he never stood behind an offensive line worthy of NFL status.
He's simultaneously played behind the worst OL + the worst group of skill players in the league. Some QBs will thrive with good OL/bad skill or bad OL/good skill, but you aren't doing jack shit in the NFL with bad OL/bad skill.
Saying a QB played the position fundamentally well FOR AN UNDRAFTED ROOKIE does not mean Sy is hyping him as a starter in the NFL. In fact, Sy goes onto talk about the need to see if DeVito can be an adequate back-up.
Except he didn't make that caveat about his being graded on a scale (for a rookie). The only reference came afterwards in his saying that BD is showing things no other undrafted rookie has shown.
RE: RE: RE: Not sure why we're separating the two.
Yes, but it sounds like the suggestion is Schoen is going to pick a QB and Daboll just has to cook the meal. I have no reason to believe that's the dynamic. Feels foolish to think Daboll won't have a significant say on this.
I am not suggesting that. I'm sure Daboll will be part of the process. But I doubt he would have any final say.
Let's game out a hypothetical. If Schoen and Mara really like Maye because of his physical metrics and personality to fit NY (which we know is important to Mara, and Schoen mentioned the NY factor yesterday), but Daboll really likes Daniels, do you think Daboll gets Daniels?
QB play has on an offensive line. When there is a downfield threat, DE's and LB's can't just pin their ears back to get to the QB.
Regardless, the next few games will be the real test for Devito's staying power in the league. If he looks competent, he could be a solid backup in the NFL for a long time. If he looks awful, he'll go back to a 3rd stringer/fringe 2nd stringer.
As to Jones, how many of Devito's sacks do you think would have been fumbles with Jones? Probably a lot of them.
QB play has on an offensive line. When there is a downfield threat, DE's and LB's can't just pin their ears back to get to the QB.
Regardless, the next few games will be the real test for Devito's staying power in the league. If he looks competent, he could be a solid backup in the NFL for a long time. If he looks awful, he'll go back to a 3rd stringer/fringe 2nd stringer.
As to Jones, how many of Devito's sacks do you think would have been fumbles with Jones? Probably a lot of them.
Sorry, that should say "the effect good QB play has on an offensive line." Stupid iPhone
the problem here is anything positive written about other quarterbacks on the roster will be taken as underhanded insult to Daniel.
We're in a weird area with a group of Giants fans.
There is an absolute cult-like following that has arisen around Daniel Jones on this site. If you praise anyone not named Daniel Jones, no matter how slightly, they flood out of the woodwork and call you a hater and a bad fan.
If Jones had a microphone Infront of him and said "DeVito is a usurper and must be dealt with" I would actually worry that some on this board would be heading to Tommy's house almost immediately.
the problem here is anything positive written about other quarterbacks on the roster will be taken as underhanded insult to Daniel.
We're in a weird area with a group of Giants fans.
LOL, except it is being stated as an insult to Jones. You literally said so your self: "What we are saying is there is no discernible difference between him and the $140 million dollar man."
Personally, I don't care if Jones is insulted. I know he's not the answer. The difference though is that I don't feel the need to turn this into a debate of Jones vs Taylor or Devito. I don't see it as apples to apples though some will insist that it is. But the bottom line is the guy (Jones) has had YEARS to prove that he is the guy and has not shown nearly enough.
Re: “It was a glowing review for a kid in a game which the results were one TD on a short field created by the defense, sub 200 yards passing, where we scored tied for the lowest point output scored against the Pats all year.“
Last year, by all accounts the best year of Jones career, Jones had 11 games sub -200 yds . He had 7 games of 1 TD and and an additional 6 games with O TDs.
He had 7 games with both sub 200 yds and 0-1 TDs.
Ill just point out this does not include an additional 4 games where he threw for 200-228 yds and 0-1 TDs.
And I cant go through every game but there was a game like Washington on SNF where Jones put up 160 yds 35 rush 0 TDs and the Giants won 20-12 with just 13 pts of offense on a defense TD by Thibodeaux and the D got a second TO.
What we are saying is there is no discernible difference between him and the $140 million dollar man.
The argument isn't that the Giants have found a starting QB. It's the Giants don't have a starting quarterback.
Big difference.
This...and I don't think its outrageous to say Jones is the 3rd best QB on this roster. But the fact that its debatable shows you how outrageous that contract is/.
We're in a weird area with a group of Giants fans.
The 4th post of this thread, you claim DeVito is better than Jones. That isn't an "underhanded insult." More like direct. It's a ridiculous notion.
I am breaking down games and performances. Jones is not playing anymore again - he isn't even a thought. His memory is a fart in the wind until the offseason.
One thing I have noticed these past 2-3 years - and it is the world we live in since 2020 - is that everyone has their flag planted into the ground so deep - that ANY statement that MIGHT disagree with their notion is an immediate threat and causes some to actually appear offended.
Incredibly weird times.
Correct.
My statement stands.
Quote:
the problem here is anything positive written about other quarterbacks on the roster will be taken as underhanded insult to Daniel.
We're in a weird area with a group of Giants fans.
The 4th post of this thread, you claim DeVito is better than Jones. That isn't an "underhanded insult." More like direct. It's a ridiculous notion.
You are taking it as an insult. I am claiming it might be true.
Quote:
But ask yourself: How well did Eli Manning perform toward the end of his career with a non-existent O-line and no top-shelf wide receiver.
In the end, it is a lot easier for fans to just piss on Daniel Jones than to fully catalogue the utter stench of the franchise he has been a part of since 2019.
Eli had Odell.
OBJ missed almost all of 2017, was traded toward the end of 2018 and wasn’t there at all in 2019. Eli’s record wasn’t too pretty over this period.
No one’s nominating him for the HOF. He is deserving of some praise and recognition - he’s doing well and PROGRESSING. Lots to work on, everyone can see the issues; but it’s a good story and more than anyone could have expected. Let’s enjoy this, it’s a bright spot in what has been a bleak season. His performance has nothing to do with what anyone thinks about Daniel Jones; I really wish people would just assess Tommy Touchdown for what they see and not relative to their opinions of DJ.
No one is claiming DeVito is the answer.
What we are saying is there is no discernible difference between him and the $140 million dollar man.
The argument isn't that the Giants have found a starting QB. It's the Giants don't have a starting quarterback.
Big difference.
160 you shortchanged him 20 million.
People are so dug in.
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In comment 16306033 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
the problem here is anything positive written about other quarterbacks on the roster will be taken as underhanded insult to Daniel.
We're in a weird area with a group of Giants fans.
The 4th post of this thread, you claim DeVito is better than Jones. That isn't an "underhanded insult." More like direct. It's a ridiculous notion.
You are taking it as an insult. I am claiming it might be true.
Just last year Jones went 9-7-1 with a terrible OL and Hodgins as the best WR, and then won a playoff game. Wake me up when DeVito does that.
I like DeVito as the backup QB going forward. Jones will be gone due to the contract in '25, when they can get out of it.
Jones has had a ton of injuries. And made a ton of money. DeVito will be a career backup. My money is on DeVito.
Ryan Fitzpatrick had a longer career than Andrew Luck. Doesn't mean I think Fitzpatrick is a better QB
Eli had Odell.
OBJ missed almost all of 2017, was traded toward the end of 2018 and wasn’t there at all in 2019. Eli’s record wasn’t too pretty over this period.
Odell was traded in the offseason. The Giants were 5-11 in 2018 despite having a dynamic WR who had 1000 yards in only 12 games. Why was that? The QB couldn’t throw touchdowns. Odell was the best WR in the NFL from 2014-2016 and the Giants had one winning record. They were one of the worst scoring teams in the league in 2016 despite having a WR go for 1300 yards and 10 tds. Why? Because they were no longer getting elite QB play.
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I don't sound so stupid saying Jones may be the third best QB on his own team?
You still could, we haven’t seen Barkley yet
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1 pick away from being undrafted
Correct.
My statement stands.
I don't know for sure, Sy, but Tony Romo, Jeff Garcia, Kurt Warner, Warren Moon, and a few others might like to have a word with you.
Does the improvement have more to do with Neal not being there (was he bad enough to bring down the whole unit?) or is it more do to with Thomas returning?
The team gave up Nine Sacks against Wash and Six against the Pats... this can hardly be called improvement,
Quote:
To my untrained eye, needs to be weighed in the Bobby Johnson evaluation. They are getting better.
Given the discussion around X and his contract, worth reading Sy’s praise of his performance. I didn’t even see the trickery X used to lure the QB into throwing an INT, so thanks for educating me.
Finally, A’Shawn’s steady performance sure suggests he should be one of the vets resigned this offseason.
Yep. Every time the unit starts to gel there is a new regime to reset everything.
They O lines has gotten better, because, with the exception of Neal, they have not had injuries that forced changes since Ezeudu went out.
You can't just play your starters for a quarter and expect them to be game ready week 1. Hopefully the coaching staff takes that as a lesson learned for next year. I don't really give a crap about the injury angle either, Thomas got hurt in literally the first quarter of the first game. You can make an argument he wasn't game ready because of lack of playing in the preaseason.
That's actually a very fair question that I have posed many times the last several weeks - based on Schoen's financial commitment to Jones, why should we trust him to find a better solution to Jones?
I'll say this. I trust Daboll with QBs infinitely more than Schoen.
Quote:
he did not draft DeVito. Passed on him all 7 rounds. For those who believe DeVito is a better QB than Jones, why would you want Schoen sticking around to evaluate QBs this offseason when the Giants determine 1. whether they draft their next starting QB and 2. who that QB will be?
That's actually a very fair question that I have posed many times the last several weeks - based on Schoen's financial commitment to Jones, why should we trust him to find a better solution to Jones?
I'll say this. I trust Daboll with QBs infinitely more than Schoen.
I thought it was Mara's meddling that was at fault? You guys need to write up a QRG or something for this stuff for the rest of us.
I thought it was Mara's meddling that was at fault? You guys need to write up a QRG or something for this stuff for the rest of us.
Wrong poster. I totally blame Schoen for the signing of Jones. His actions speak very loudly pre and post signing.
He clearly and willingly hitched his wagon to Team Jones.
1) we had just made the PO's and DJ looked decent last year. It was not inconceivable to think he would improve with better talent around him and another year in the system
2) there weren't really awesome options to replace DJ
3) there rightly so was a "perception" factor - getting rid of your QB the year after he plays decently and wins a PO game is bad optics
4) the contract is essentially a 2 year deal; again, not exactly a long term anchor
in hindsight it looks bad but all things considered I don't think it disqualifies him to pick the next QB.
Never claimed DeVito will be a starter.
I'm claiming that Daniel Jones isn't.
I think I've been clear on this.
The longer the organization sticks with Jones, the longer we'll be a third-place team in the NFC East.
And it proves the point that Daboll is capable of coaching up any quarterback to their ceiling - a much needed reaffirmation of the astonishing results he got last year from DJ until the league figured out how to defend against the "remedial scheme".
As you mention, the next month will determine whether DeVito can be the third string backup next year behind whomever they draft in April and a lame duck DJ running out the final year of his scholarship program. I am optimistic that DeVito will meet that threshold and be the third guy in the quarterback room. I originally thought DeVito's ceiling was Jake Fromm. But after the last several games, he has me now thinking that his ceiling might be more like Taylor Heinicke? Perhaps Case Keenum? Any of which would be a much needed pleasant surprise in this season of despair.
Thanks again for your many contributions to this site. It is the best of BBI and very much appreciated!
Daboll is the developer and builds game plans to fit the QB's skills. Josh Allen doesn't mention Brandon Beane for his success. But he has mentioned Brian Daboll.
Do you really think DeVito would have performed even marginally better than Jones given the unprecedentedly terrible O-line play in the first part of this year? I know the mantra that good qbs can compensate for poor O-lines. Go rewatch the games.
I ain't no Jones apologist. I'd like to think I'm a realist and I really hope Giants identify and draft a quarterback with the potential to be the One, if for no other reason than there's too much risk in Jones' injury history But the notion that there's no difference between DeVito and Jones is just one other end of the Daniel Jones Derangement Syndrome.
The numbers speak for themselves. The rest is bullshit.
The funny thing was - remember how Webb looked against them last year? The Eagles needed to win that game too.
1) we had just made the PO's and DJ looked decent last year. It was not inconceivable to think he would improve with better talent around him and another year in the system
2) there weren't really awesome options to replace DJ
3) there rightly so was a "perception" factor - getting rid of your QB the year after he plays decently and wins a PO game is bad optics
4) the contract is essentially a 2 year deal; again, not exactly a long term anchor
in hindsight it looks bad but all things considered I don't think it disqualifies him to pick the next QB.
I get the idea to keep Jones after 2022. But Jones's output wasn't prolific. It was solid and he should be recognized for making plays, especially with his legs.
But the much better solution was the FT or TT. Make Jones prove that 2022 wasn't a fluke or an outlier.
Quote:
Daboll and schoen are evaluating QBs together.
Daboll is the developer and builds game plans to fit the QB's skills. Josh Allen doesn't mention Brandon Beane for his success. But he has mentioned Brian Daboll.
Yes, but it sounds like the suggestion is Schoen is going to pick a QB and Daboll just has to cook the meal. I have no reason to believe that's the dynamic. Feels foolish to think Daboll won't have a significant say on this.
The only problem I have in the review is the insinuation that the coaches have sured up the offensive side of the ball.
This teams offense has been pathetic from week one. Playcalling and execution continue to be massive problems. That has to fall on the coaching staff.
and yes, FT or TT would have been better... though these used one of them on SB so presumably that factored into the thinking. Honestly, my guess is they truly thought with better talent and another year in the system, DJ would have improved to the point where his contract was reasonable.
It turns out they were wrong and now we need to get out from under it. But i understand the thinking going into the contract negotiations.
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In comment 16305858 M.S. said:
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on Daniel Jones. From all that I've read on this site, it's due to one of three reasons:
(1) Injuries
(2) Talent
(3) Injuries & Talent
I understand the issue over injuries (and I wish this young man would just retire for his own personal health), but it seems that his "talent" has been denigrated far beyond what he deserves, and I say that knowing full well what his limitations are.
Talent? Are we sure about that? I felt the word Go Terps used yesterday describing the NYG offense was perfect. "Remedial".... it worked because it kept things simple for Daniel. When he is asked to do more, he can't handle it.
I understand I keep harping on it, and it is a very simplistic way of looking at things, but Daniel Jones has a problem with the end zone. He can't seem to reach it. Scoring is kind of important to a QB. Dave Brown had the same problem.
Surely disconcerting about Daniel Jones lack of TD passes. It is what it is, and it ain't pretty. But it's also disconcerting that over his career Daniel Jones never had the opportunity to play with a bona-fide star like Tyreek Hill, CeeDee Lamb, A.J. Brown, Ja'Marr Chase, Davonte Smith, Travis Kelce or Jordan Jefferson, et. al. In the end, Daniel Jones may be a mediocrity (or worse), but he never threw to top shelf talent and he never stood behind an offensive line worthy of NFL status.
He's simultaneously played behind the worst OL + the worst group of skill players in the league. Some QBs will thrive with good OL/bad skill or bad OL/good skill, but you aren't doing jack shit in the NFL with bad OL/bad skill.
Saying a QB played the position fundamentally well FOR AN UNDRAFTED ROOKIE does not mean Sy is hyping him as a starter in the NFL. In fact, Sy goes onto talk about the need to see if DeVito can be an adequate back-up.
Yes, but it sounds like the suggestion is Schoen is going to pick a QB and Daboll just has to cook the meal. I have no reason to believe that's the dynamic. Feels foolish to think Daboll won't have a significant say on this.
I am not suggesting that. I'm sure Daboll will be part of the process. But I doubt he would have any final say.
Let's game out a hypothetical. If Schoen and Mara really like Maye because of his physical metrics and personality to fit NY (which we know is important to Mara, and Schoen mentioned the NY factor yesterday), but Daboll really likes Daniels, do you think Daboll gets Daniels?
I don't.
Regardless, the next few games will be the real test for Devito's staying power in the league. If he looks competent, he could be a solid backup in the NFL for a long time. If he looks awful, he'll go back to a 3rd stringer/fringe 2nd stringer.
As to Jones, how many of Devito's sacks do you think would have been fumbles with Jones? Probably a lot of them.
Regardless, the next few games will be the real test for Devito's staying power in the league. If he looks competent, he could be a solid backup in the NFL for a long time. If he looks awful, he'll go back to a 3rd stringer/fringe 2nd stringer.
As to Jones, how many of Devito's sacks do you think would have been fumbles with Jones? Probably a lot of them.
Sorry, that should say "the effect good QB play has on an offensive line." Stupid iPhone
We're in a weird area with a group of Giants fans.
There is an absolute cult-like following that has arisen around Daniel Jones on this site. If you praise anyone not named Daniel Jones, no matter how slightly, they flood out of the woodwork and call you a hater and a bad fan.
If Jones had a microphone Infront of him and said "DeVito is a usurper and must be dealt with" I would actually worry that some on this board would be heading to Tommy's house almost immediately.
Wouldn’t that be some shit.
Wouldn’t that be some shit.
Highly doubtful, but Devito is a nice story in a lost season
We're in a weird area with a group of Giants fans.
Personally, I don't care if Jones is insulted. I know he's not the answer. The difference though is that I don't feel the need to turn this into a debate of Jones vs Taylor or Devito. I don't see it as apples to apples though some will insist that it is. But the bottom line is the guy (Jones) has had YEARS to prove that he is the guy and has not shown nearly enough.
Last year, by all accounts the best year of Jones career, Jones had 11 games sub -200 yds . He had 7 games of 1 TD and and an additional 6 games with O TDs.
He had 7 games with both sub 200 yds and 0-1 TDs.
Ill just point out this does not include an additional 4 games where he threw for 200-228 yds and 0-1 TDs.
And I cant go through every game but there was a game like Washington on SNF where Jones put up 160 yds 35 rush 0 TDs and the Giants won 20-12 with just 13 pts of offense on a defense TD by Thibodeaux and the D got a second TO.
Thats in his best year of his career
No one is claiming DeVito is the answer.
What we are saying is there is no discernible difference between him and the $140 million dollar man.
The argument isn't that the Giants have found a starting QB. It's the Giants don't have a starting quarterback.
Big difference.
This...and I don't think its outrageous to say Jones is the 3rd best QB on this roster. But the fact that its debatable shows you how outrageous that contract is/.
The numbers speak for themselves. The rest is bullshit.
Career high 6.8 YPA. Yeesh