Yes, but it sounds like the suggestion is Schoen is going to pick a QB and Daboll just has to cook the meal. I have no reason to believe that's the dynamic. Feels foolish to think Daboll won't have a significant say on this.
I am not suggesting that. I'm sure Daboll will be part of the process. But I doubt he would have any final say.
Let's game out a hypothetical. If Schoen and Mara really like Maye because of his physical metrics and personality to fit NY (which we know is important to Mara, and Schoen mentioned the NY factor yesterday), but Daboll really likes Daniels, do you think Daboll gets Daniels?
I don't.
There is no effing way on Earth that Jones gets that contract if Daboll doesn't want him to get it - does not feel he will improve. bw you cannot have your cake and eat it too. Josh Allen became Josh Allen in part because of Daboll, as you said, not because of Beane. Jones played better last year because of Daboll(and Tierney). If Daboll said to Schoen that DJ is mediocre and not worth 5 years $160 mill, Jones isn't getting that contract. There is no ay Schoen does that to Daboll.
You may be correct that if the Giants go QB and can get either of Maye or Daniels they go Maye. But I absolutely guarantee you that if Daboll tells Mara and Schoen that Daniels is the better QB andshows/explains why he is, Daniels will be the pick. If it is a "tie" (ability and developmentally) between the two and Schoen and Mara would rather Maye, Daboll will go with it because Schoen will show Daboll why Maye is the better choice for NYC area.
This isn't George Young telling Bill Parcells what players he will get anymore. In this case, the GM and HC are tied together and will work through their difference.
IMHO John Mara may be a tie breaker on this choice more than an instigator.
I will be shocked if DeVito doesn't look like a train wreck against the Eagles.
The funny thing was - remember how Webb looked against them last year? The Eagles needed to win that game too.
This was exactly my thought as well. DeVito is a no lose call option at this point. If he is bad, who cares. Losses are good for draft position. But if he is good, that will not only give us a solid third guy in the quarterback room next year, but it will reaffirm Daboll's capacity to elevate quarterback talent. Which will be confidence inspiring when the much anticipated successor arrives next spring...
to assume Daboll will want a QB and Schoen/Mara will simply get someone else. This is not some process where each one walks in on draft morning and votes. Schoen and Daboll will speak about it a lot, with Daboll stressing what traits he needs most in a QB (which will also line up with the guy he likes). That will have a ton of influence over who Schoen will want as well.
After last year I was under the same misconception about Jones that I think Schoen and Daboll were - they simplified the offense enough and added enough designed runs that they could make Jones a productive NFL QB. As we saw in the second half of last year, once defenses made Jones stand in the pocket, the offense completely dried up. Yeah he had good games against the Colts and Vikings. If you want to know how hard it is for a QB to have a good day against the Vikings 2022 defense, go look at what Mac Jones did to them (spoiler alert - he shredded them).
There were no good QB options out there so Schoen rolled the dice that they could continue to make progress with Jones to have him play at least passable for this year and next. The gamble did not pay off. The stats Jones put up in 2022 are his NFL ceiling. It was a mistake, but there were a lot of factors contributing to that mistake.
I trust Schoen and Daboll to get a QB this year and grow him into a productive NFL starter, as well as to continue to grow Devito to hopefully be a solid backup. I also trust they will learn from the contract mistake they made with Jones.
He's walking. Injuries and the start of the season would end it. And this comes from a previous DJ supporter.Of course he ll be here next year because he's under contract they can't get out of yet. But my guess either a drafted player or a potential vet signing to compete with DJ is going to happen and the likelihood of DJ being ready for first game is unlikely in my opinion. ? at starter (and not DJ) for 2024 with DeVito the backup. DJ on pup.
Jones is done with the Giants after next year. A concussion, two serious neck injuries, and now a torn ACL mean he will be released in about 15 months, albeit with a $22M cap hit. He'd have to be a consensus top 10 QB for that not to be true. His running also makes it more likely that he will suffer another concussion or neck injury. And I say all that as someone who likes Jones more than most here, even though I was totally opposed to drafting him at #6. But his play was never remotely good enough to warrant the contract he received.
After Jones is released, another team might sign him as a "bridge starting QB" for a year or two until they find a better option. After that, he will be a high-end backup or "spot starter," which is fine.
Re: “It was a glowing review for a kid in a game which the results were one TD on a short field created by the defense, sub 200 yards passing, where we scored tied for the lowest point output scored against the Pats all year.“
Last year, by all accounts the best year of Jones career, Jones had 11 games sub -200 yds . He had 7 games of 1 TD and and an additional 6 games with O TDs.
He had 7 games with both sub 200 yds and 0-1 TDs.
Ill just point out this does not include an additional 4 games where he threw for 200-228 yds and 0-1 TDs.
And I cant go through every game but there was a game like Washington on SNF where Jones put up 160 yds 35 rush 0 TDs and the Giants won 20-12 with just 13 pts of offense on a defense TD by Thibodeaux and the D got a second TO.
Thats in his best year of his career
Who cares? That post was not about Jones. I just can't get my head around feeling good about this game. My takeway was very negative on the offensive side despite a few throws I did really like. Even if it was a rookie, the outcome was flat out ugly. Overall, we barely beat a 2 win team despite strong defensive play, on account of the offense.
I get it, a rookie without expectations. Did he show some good things? Sure. At the end of the day, I just find it hard to feel warm and fizzy about this:
Fumble (on handoff from QB)
Punt
Punt
Punt
Punt
TD (short field -- 26 yards after INT)
Punt
....
Punt
Punt
FG (short field -- 18 yards after INT)
Punt
on Daniel Jones. From all that I've read on this site, it's due to one of three reasons:
(1) Injuries
(2) Talent
(3) Injuries & Talent
I understand the issue over injuries (and I wish this young man would just retire for his own personal health), but it seems that his "talent" has been denigrated far beyond what he deserves, and I say that knowing full well what his limitations are.
Every NFL QB is talented. Pull any of them out of the context of the NFL and place them them among the general population and they'll be some of the greatest athletes most people have encountered, even the mediocre QBs.
The margins that differentiate a star franchise QB from a JAG backup QB are really thin. We're talking about a quarter-second difference in decision making, half that in terms of difference in release time, etc.
That those margins are as thin as they are is what allows a meh QB to occasionally look like a star franchise QB. Blake Bortles, for example, would never be viewed by history as a franchise QB, but he was able to replicate one for a short stretch.
The same thing tends to happen with DJ, IMO. He absolutely has enough arm. He absolutely has (or had, TBD on the injury front) the wheels to be a weapon on the ground. If you were building a prototype QB, strictly from a physical standpoint, I can understand why a lot of fans would see DJ fitting the description.
But it seems that DJ is a hair too slow here and there and it adds up. We're talking tenths of seconds here. Do you think you could spot the difference between 2.4 seconds and 2.7 seconds? I don't think I could. But I've looked at the numbers enough to realize that 2.4 seconds will likely be a completion with YAC, and 2.7 seconds will likely be a sack, with the blame pinned on the OL.
If you're expecting to see throws sprayed randomly around the field in order to identify the difference between a star and a JAG, you're not going to see it. It won't be that obvious or easily identifiable. But the results, over time, do bear themselves out, IMO.
I did not think DeVito progressed at all in this game. He still holds the ball too long with people open. I am hoping it was a pause in his development as I do expect he will get even more confidence in his early reads and gets the ball out. I suspect, after the bye week with more video time, he will quicken up his pace.
He can zip it when he needs to and he sure can let it fly deep.
There is no doubt in my mind that he reads quicker than Jones and still will get better.
I have now firmly joined the Darkside, and feel it is time for a new QB. I am also pretty sure Schoen isn't out scouting QBs for his health and every game DeVito looks better than Jones is another step toward a new QB.
I am glad you are the scout, because I thought the oline was awful again. Just inconsistent run blocking and too many free tacklers allowed in the backfield. Absolutely Pugh is not stout enough at the POA. Looks to be only 280 lbs. His technique looks solid, but he is just not strong enough inside.
One thing that list does is a crucial way DeVito is better than Jones: to this point he hasn't made the crippling negative play. He takes a ton of sacks, but he doesn't turn the ball over and allows you to punt. In that sense he may be a viable long term third string guy bouncing around the league.
But yeah the Giants don't have a viable starter. If I were the GM I'd draft two QBs in April.
The Eagles will humiliate the Giants in the first game and then decide whether or not they want to humiliate the Giants in the second game. DeVito is sitting in the front car of an impending train wreck.
on Daniel Jones. From all that I've read on this site, it's due to one of three reasons:
(1) Injuries
(2) Talent
(3) Injuries & Talent
I understand the issue over injuries (and I wish this young man would just retire for his own personal health), but it seems that his "talent" has been denigrated far beyond what he deserves, and I say that knowing full well what his limitations are.
Talent? Are we sure about that? I felt the word Go Terps used yesterday describing the NYG offense was perfect. "Remedial".... it worked because it kept things simple for Daniel. When he is asked to do more, he can't handle it.
I understand I keep harping on it, and it is a very simplistic way of looking at things, but Daniel Jones has a problem with the end zone. He can't seem to reach it. Scoring is kind of important to a QB. Dave Brown had the same problem.
Surely disconcerting about Daniel Jones lack of TD passes. It is what it is, and it ain't pretty. But it's also disconcerting that over his career Daniel Jones never had the opportunity to play with a bona-fide star like Tyreek Hill, CeeDee Lamb, A.J. Brown, Ja'Marr Chase, Davonte Smith, Travis Kelce or Jordan Jefferson, et. al. In the end, Daniel Jones may be a mediocrity (or worse), but he never threw to top shelf talent and he never stood behind an offensive line worthy of NFL status.
He's simultaneously played behind the worst OL + the worst group of skill players in the league. Some QBs will thrive with good OL/bad skill or bad OL/good skill, but you aren't doing jack shit in the NFL with bad OL/bad skill.
For noticing this you get called a cult member.
Unfuckingbelievable
on Daniel Jones. From all that I've read on this site, it's due to one of three reasons:
(1) Injuries
(2) Talent
(3) Injuries & Talent
I understand the issue over injuries (and I wish this young man would just retire for his own personal health), but it seems that his "talent" has been denigrated far beyond what he deserves, and I say that knowing full well what his limitations are.
Talent? Are we sure about that? I felt the word Go Terps used yesterday describing the NYG offense was perfect. "Remedial".... it worked because it kept things simple for Daniel. When he is asked to do more, he can't handle it.
I understand I keep harping on it, and it is a very simplistic way of looking at things, but Daniel Jones has a problem with the end zone. He can't seem to reach it. Scoring is kind of important to a QB. Dave Brown had the same problem.
Surely disconcerting about Daniel Jones lack of TD passes. It is what it is, and it ain't pretty. But it's also disconcerting that over his career Daniel Jones never had the opportunity to play with a bona-fide star like Tyreek Hill, CeeDee Lamb, A.J. Brown, Ja'Marr Chase, Davonte Smith, Travis Kelce or Jordan Jefferson, et. al. In the end, Daniel Jones may be a mediocrity (or worse), but he never threw to top shelf talent and he never stood behind an offensive line worthy of NFL status.
He's simultaneously played behind the worst OL + the worst group of skill players in the league. Some QBs will thrive with good OL/bad skill or bad OL/good skill, but you aren't doing jack shit in the NFL with bad OL/bad skill.
For noticing this you get called a cult member.
Unfuckingbelievable
No, for being a fucking cult member you get called a cult member.
Did you think Blake Bortles was a star QB being held back by circumstance? Or did you have a more objective view when it wasn't the guy that you really, really, really wanted to like?
Life is too short to spend it praying that a mediocre QB will have everything perfect enough around them to resemble a legit NFL franchise QB.
Do the OL/skill players get a break for playing with a lousy quarterback in Jones, or does it only work one way?
It works both ways. If the ball comes out sooner, less sacks are placed against their names and the line does not need to hold the defender off as long....
One thing that list does is a crucial way DeVito is better than Jones: to this point he hasn't made the crippling negative play. He takes a ton of sacks, but he doesn't turn the ball over and allows you to punt. In that sense he may be a viable long term third string guy bouncing around the league.
But yeah the Giants don't have a viable starter. If I were the GM I'd draft two QBs in April.
I'm with you man, except I don't need two --I'll settle for one good one, LOL.
By that, I don't mean "don't believe he has had a fair shake" or anything like that, I mean, honestly believes that he is the answer (or will be provided the team sticks with him), and that good things are in store for us in the future with him as the QB?
In those specific terms, I'm curious who out there is a Jones supporter?
I agree word for word. The light is dim, but it's better than looking into the dark void of despair that we were all looking at prior to the last 2 wins.
Jones was HORRIBLE THIS season. Horrible. No one can dispute that. Even his biggest supporters here know he was horrible they just might add a caveat or two. Doesn't matter. HE was part of the problem.
Where we lose our connection is that I don't know if it is fair to just assume that DJ can't improve or bounce back.
History shows that pretty good players can have bad seasons only to bounce back with good seasons.
**And with that said I still wouldn't shy away from an upgrade at QB if the guy can be drafted. QB should be a priority. I am not deluding myself at all. I just can't sit here and say shit like "life long backup QB, Taylor, is clearly better than Jones." It's anything but clear but it could be true. Taylor had a moment or two early on where he went to the playoffs as a starter only to fade to backup role after his peak. This could certainly be happening with Jones as we speak.
Schoen strikes me as pragmatic and detail orientated. And Daboll has gotten this team to get itself off the mat with some good enough play calling and leadership. I would love to see more wins, maybe even make December interesting, but at the very least I see them competing and fighting week to week. It bodes well.
If Devito lights up GB and wins another game we should all feel free to lose our minds a little bit. Have fun. It's been a painful year we should enjoy something this season if possible.
RE: RE: The pendulum on BBI has swung way too negative
on Daniel Jones. From all that I've read on this site, it's due to one of three reasons:
(1) Injuries
(2) Talent
(3) Injuries & Talent
I understand the issue over injuries (and I wish this young man would just retire for his own personal health), but it seems that his "talent" has been denigrated far beyond what he deserves, and I say that knowing full well what his limitations are.
Every NFL QB is talented. Pull any of them out of the context of the NFL and place them them among the general population and they'll be some of the greatest athletes most people have encountered, even the mediocre QBs.
The margins that differentiate a star franchise QB from a JAG backup QB are really thin. We're talking about a quarter-second difference in decision making, half that in terms of difference in release time, etc.
That those margins are as thin as they are is what allows a meh QB to occasionally look like a star franchise QB. Blake Bortles, for example, would never be viewed by history as a franchise QB, but he was able to replicate one for a short stretch.
The same thing tends to happen with DJ, IMO. He absolutely has enough arm. He absolutely has (or had, TBD on the injury front) the wheels to be a weapon on the ground. If you were building a prototype QB, strictly from a physical standpoint, I can understand why a lot of fans would see DJ fitting the description.
But it seems that DJ is a hair too slow here and there and it adds up. We're talking tenths of seconds here. Do you think you could spot the difference between 2.4 seconds and 2.7 seconds? I don't think I could. But I've looked at the numbers enough to realize that 2.4 seconds will likely be a completion with YAC, and 2.7 seconds will likely be a sack, with the blame pinned on the OL.
If you're expecting to see throws sprayed randomly around the field in order to identify the difference between a star and a JAG, you're not going to see it. It won't be that obvious or easily identifiable. But the results, over time, do bear themselves out, IMO.
By that, I don't mean "don't believe he has had a fair shake" or anything like that, I mean, honestly believes that he is the answer (or will be provided the team sticks with him), and that good things are in store for us in the future with him as the QB?
In those specific terms, I'm curious who out there is a Jones supporter?
Are you hoping that they'll self-identify? Because I'd be happy to share some handles if they don't.
By that, I don't mean "don't believe he has had a fair shake" or anything like that, I mean, honestly believes that he is the answer (or will be provided the team sticks with him), and that good things are in store for us in the future with him as the QB?
In those specific terms, I'm curious who out there is a Jones supporter?
Should the people who never believed in him since the second he was drafted raise their hand? Or are there too many of us?
In comment 16305947 UberAlias said:
[quote] The guy scores one TD that was assisted by one of the three turnovers the 2-win pats handed us in a game they were arguably hoping to lose. Sorry, the hype just isn't adding up. [/quot
Devito is playing okay but the hype is the result of DJ haters enjoying themselves.
In comment 16305947 UberAlias said:
[quote] The guy scores one TD that was assisted by one of the three turnovers the 2-win pats handed us in a game they were arguably hoping to lose. Sorry, the hype just isn't adding up. [/quot
Devito is playing okay but the hype is the result of DJ haters enjoying themselves.
There is no joy for a Giants fan to admit that their team has a problem at quarterback.
By that, I don't mean "don't believe he has had a fair shake" or anything like that, I mean, honestly believes that he is the answer (or will be provided the team sticks with him), and that good things are in store for us in the future with him as the QB?
In those specific terms, I'm curious who out there is a Jones supporter?
Should the people who never believed in him since the second he was drafted raise their hand? Or are there too many of us?
Turn back the clock to 1984 and repeat that sentence with the word "Simms" instead of "Jones".
the problem here is anything positive written about other quarterbacks on the roster will be taken as underhanded insult to Daniel.
We're in a weird area with a group of Giants fans.
There is an absolute cult-like following that has arisen around Daniel Jones on this site. If you praise anyone not named Daniel Jones, no matter how slightly, they flood out of the woodwork and call you a hater and a bad fan.
If Jones had a microphone Infront of him and said "DeVito is a usurper and must be dealt with" I would actually worry that some on this board would be heading to Tommy's house almost immediately.
Dude. Enough with this stupid narrative. You just described MAYBE two people on the planet. Most people are ambivalent and just want to win. And there is nothing at all wrong with being a fan of (and defending) someone that you (and quite a few others) feel the need to storm threads and shit on over and over, and over, and ove... again). Some people have a higher opinion of him than you and more than a few others. Get the fuck over it already. I'm tired of having to wade through 10,000 DJ posts on every G*d*mn thread already. It's so beyond OLD.
By that, I don't mean "don't believe he has had a fair shake" or anything like that, I mean, honestly believes that he is the answer (or will be provided the team sticks with him), and that good things are in store for us in the future with him as the QB?
In those specific terms, I'm curious who out there is a Jones supporter?
Should the people who never believed in him since the second he was drafted raise their hand? Or are there too many of us?
Turn back the clock to 1984 and repeat that sentence with the word "Simms" instead of "Jones".
If Jones becomes a super bowl mvp i'll buy you a beer
Do some of you guys really think DeVito would have won 10 games last year, including an away playoff game?
Do you really think DeVito would have performed even marginally better than Jones given the unprecedentedly terrible O-line play in the first part of this year? I know the mantra that good qbs can compensate for poor O-lines. Go rewatch the games.
I ain't no Jones apologist. I'd like to think I'm a realist and I really hope Giants identify and draft a quarterback with the potential to be the One, if for no other reason than there's too much risk in Jones' injury history But the notion that there's no difference between DeVito and Jones is just one other end of the Daniel Jones Derangement Syndrome.
Clatterbuck, intelligent post but I'm afraid to much common sense for some on this board.
By that, I don't mean "don't believe he has had a fair shake" or anything like that, I mean, honestly believes that he is the answer (or will be provided the team sticks with him), and that good things are in store for us in the future with him as the QB?
In those specific terms, I'm curious who out there is a Jones supporter?
Should the people who never believed in him since the second he was drafted raise their hand? Or are there too many of us?
Turn back the clock to 1984 and repeat that sentence with the word "Simms" instead of "Jones".
Make sure you also erase the words "salary cap" and "free agency" from your vocabulary. And change the NFL on-field rules back to 1984 while you're at it. And then find one isolated example that might have been an outlier even then.
Any other shit from 40 years ago that you want to prop up or did all of your opinions expire a few decades ago?
Do some of you guys really think DeVito would have won 10 games last year, including an away playoff game?
Do you really think DeVito would have performed even marginally better than Jones given the unprecedentedly terrible O-line play in the first part of this year? I know the mantra that good qbs can compensate for poor O-lines. Go rewatch the games.
I ain't no Jones apologist. I'd like to think I'm a realist and I really hope Giants identify and draft a quarterback with the potential to be the One, if for no other reason than there's too much risk in Jones' injury history But the notion that there's no difference between DeVito and Jones is just one other end of the Daniel Jones Derangement Syndrome.
Clatterbuck, intelligent post but I'm afraid to much common sense for some on this board.
Let us know when you have enough common sense to spell "too" correctly.
I don't sound so stupid saying Jones may be the third best QB on his own team?
You don’t really think Taylor is better than DJ do you?
I know you said “may” and that’s a bit of a disclaimer but was that just taking a shot at DJ or do you honestly think Taylor is better?
I was a huge Jones guy until watching his performance this year. He played much worse than both Taylor and Tommy…..that has been painfully obvious . I’m not happy saying this….just being honest sharing my thoughts.
What we are saying is there is no discernible difference between him and the $140 million dollar man.
The argument isn't that the Giants have found a starting QB. It's the Giants don't have a starting quarterback.
Big difference.
Go re-read the review on Devito's game. This post is not at all aligned with what was written. It was a glowing review for a kid in a game which the results were one TD on a short field created by the defense, sub 200 yards passing, where we scored tied for the lowest point output scored against the Pats all year. It was an ugly ugly win against a terrible team where the defense and specials played well but not nearly enough done on the offensive side.
I can't reconcile my interpretation of the game with Sy's glowing review.
I agree 100%. The anything but DJ crowd as usual, is not making sense.
By that, I don't mean "don't believe he has had a fair shake" or anything like that, I mean, honestly believes that he is the answer (or will be provided the team sticks with him), and that good things are in store for us in the future with him as the QB?
In those specific terms, I'm curious who out there is a Jones supporter?
Are you hoping that they'll self-identify? Because I'd be happy to share some handles if they don't.
There's a lot of people who regularly defend Jones. I'm just wondering if any of them have the courage to actually make this claim. If not, then I'm not even sure what they're arguing for then. Even they don't have faith in him.
By that, I don't mean "don't believe he has had a fair shake" or anything like that, I mean, honestly believes that he is the answer (or will be provided the team sticks with him), and that good things are in store for us in the future with him as the QB?
In those specific terms, I'm curious who out there is a Jones supporter?
Are you hoping that they'll self-identify? Because I'd be happy to share some handles if they don't.
There's a lot of people who regularly defend Jones. I'm just wondering if any of them have the courage to actually make this claim. If not, then I'm not even sure what they're arguing for then. Even they don't have faith in him.
Is it not possible to believe both:
1. Jones is not the future as the Giants QB and he will be gone after next year; and
2. Statements claiming DeVito is a better QB are asinine
I still believe in Jones as being a good quarterback and one we can win with and advance deep into the playoffs with. Happy to share why:
-Last full season and first with Daboll he played well. Made good decisions, took the team to the playoffs, had a dynamic performance in that win, obviously got killed the next week to a superior team. Pocket presence was much improved. Played like the best player in our offense at times aside from Thomas and the games where Barkley went off. 6th in total QBR in the league in 2022. "But Ryan a lot of that is his rushing..." Yeah, OK, sure, that is part of it. "But Ryan he only played well against the Vikings and Colts." Again, not true. Went toe to toe with some of the league's top QBs and beat them straight up, at times looked flat out better than them for a stretch.
-Outside of that year it has been a lot of average play. I'd argue Judge and Garrett were sort of a disaster for him. Different philosophy around offense, played not to make a mistake. There were some games he looked the part but overall that 2 year stretch was bad. Rookie season he looked great in some games, terrible with turnovers in others.
-This year was pretty much a disaster for everyone the first 6 weeks of the season. Poor play and a historically bad OL play when it came to pressures. Not necessarily talking about sacks here, I'm talking just overall time to throw. Dallas, SF, Seattle, Miami games, he was under siege for majority of those games and it eventually got him hurt.
"But Ryan you are making excuses we are tired of it."
OK...just last season, as in 2022, he played awesome for us when it mattered and won a playoff game. Something that a lot of folks just have conveniently forgotten.
And lastly - this is a team game. Jones wasn't good when he played this year outside of the Arizona second half. We've also seen countless mistakes by OL and WRs drops over his career that haven't helped his cause.
I do believe that he'll be a good player for us next year if they balk at QB because of their draft slot. I'll get laughed at again for saying that, don't really care.
I also think it's incredibly weak as a fan base that some of you guys are dismissing the 2022 performance as if it didn't happen.
It's like you wanted Jones to play that way, and then when he did, you just said well it's because the teams we played were soft so getting to the playoffs and setting a NFL record on the road doesn't matter. We're moving on.
I choose to think that his ceiling is closer to that game than everyone else thinks. Call me crazy but that's my opinion.
By that, I don't mean "don't believe he has had a fair shake" or anything like that, I mean, honestly believes that he is the answer (or will be provided the team sticks with him), and that good things are in store for us in the future with him as the QB?
In those specific terms, I'm curious who out there is a Jones supporter?
Should the people who never believed in him since the second he was drafted raise their hand? Or are there too many of us?
Hand raised here. I am reminded at such a solemn moment of that famous speech...
"April 25, 2019, a date which will live in infamy, in Nashville, Tennessee, a once proud NFL franchise was suddenly and deliberately attacked by the forces of misguided arrogance. Despite the unequivocal warnings from the advanced scouts led by Sy, that great voice of reason from the BBI bunker, the New York Football Giants were led defiantly into the horrifying depths of quarterback hell, to be forever known in posterity as the DJ Era. Today, November 28, 2023, the advanced scouting leadership has reasserted the rightful claim of this franchise to common sense and humility to make certain that this form of treachery shall never again endanger the proper and fitting place of the New York Football Giants in the pantheon of great sports franchises."
I still believe in Jones as being a good quarterback and one we can win with and advance deep into the playoffs with. Happy to share why:
-Last full season and first with Daboll he played well. Made good decisions, took the team to the playoffs, had a dynamic performance in that win, obviously got killed the next week to a superior team. Pocket presence was much improved. Played like the best player in our offense at times aside from Thomas and the games where Barkley went off. 6th in total QBR in the league in 2022. "But Ryan a lot of that is his rushing..." Yeah, OK, sure, that is part of it. "But Ryan he only played well against the Vikings and Colts." Again, not true. Went toe to toe with some of the league's top QBs and beat them straight up, at times looked flat out better than them for a stretch.
-Outside of that year it has been a lot of average play. I'd argue Judge and Garrett were sort of a disaster for him. Different philosophy around offense, played not to make a mistake. There were some games he looked the part but overall that 2 year stretch was bad. Rookie season he looked great in some games, terrible with turnovers in others.
-This year was pretty much a disaster for everyone the first 6 weeks of the season. Poor play and a historically bad OL play when it came to pressures. Not necessarily talking about sacks here, I'm talking just overall time to throw. Dallas, SF, Seattle, Miami games, he was under siege for majority of those games and it eventually got him hurt.
"But Ryan you are making excuses we are tired of it."
OK...just last season, as in 2022, he played awesome for us when it mattered and won a playoff game. Something that a lot of folks just have conveniently forgotten.
And lastly - this is a team game. Jones wasn't good when he played this year outside of the Arizona second half. We've also seen countless mistakes by OL and WRs drops over his career that haven't helped his cause.
I do believe that he'll be a good player for us next year if they balk at QB because of their draft slot. I'll get laughed at again for saying that, don't really care.
I also think it's incredibly weak as a fan base that some of you guys are dismissing the 2022 performance as if it didn't happen.
It's like you wanted Jones to play that way, and then when he did, you just said well it's because the teams we played were soft so getting to the playoffs and setting a NFL record on the road doesn't matter. We're moving on.
I choose to think that his ceiling is closer to that game than everyone else thinks. Call me crazy but that's my opinion.
I think part of the disconnect on this board right now is that the people that want to move on from Jones (myself included) don't want just an average (or even good QB). That won't get you to the promised land in this league. So, the opportunity to keep shooting for the superstar/stud will always be alluring until we find that guy. I am certain it's not Jones. I'm not even sure he can be average or good anymore, but I know he won't be a superstar that takes his team to the SB.
RE: Schoen gave Jones a $40 million a year contract
he did not draft DeVito. Passed on him all 7 rounds. For those who believe DeVito is a better QB than Jones, why would you want Schoen sticking around to evaluate QBs this offseason when the Giants determine 1. whether they draft their next starting QB and 2. who that QB will be?
I think you should draft the next Giant QB, apparently you know more than Schoen.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Who hear honestly believes in Jones?
By that, I don't mean "don't believe he has had a fair shake" or anything like that, I mean, honestly believes that he is the answer (or will be provided the team sticks with him), and that good things are in store for us in the future with him as the QB?
In those specific terms, I'm curious who out there is a Jones supporter?
Should the people who never believed in him since the second he was drafted raise their hand? Or are there too many of us?
Turn back the clock to 1984 and repeat that sentence with the word "Simms" instead of "Jones".
If Jones becomes a super bowl mvp i'll buy you a beer
I'll take it! (grin) I have no idea if Jones is the guy. I have no idea if he's ever going to be a top QB. But I felt the same about Simms, and I felt the same about Eli. And Hoss was no great shakes in NY after winning the whole enchilada against Buffalo, replacing Simms in Week 14.
Whenever someone uses head-to-head QB wins as a determining factor
QBs don't play each other head to head. They play the other team's defense. I have no interest in having DJ be an attachment to Wink's unit having success against opposing QBs.
Quote:
Yes, but it sounds like the suggestion is Schoen is going to pick a QB and Daboll just has to cook the meal. I have no reason to believe that's the dynamic. Feels foolish to think Daboll won't have a significant say on this.
I am not suggesting that. I'm sure Daboll will be part of the process. But I doubt he would have any final say.
Let's game out a hypothetical. If Schoen and Mara really like Maye because of his physical metrics and personality to fit NY (which we know is important to Mara, and Schoen mentioned the NY factor yesterday), but Daboll really likes Daniels, do you think Daboll gets Daniels?
I don't.
There is no effing way on Earth that Jones gets that contract if Daboll doesn't want him to get it - does not feel he will improve. bw you cannot have your cake and eat it too. Josh Allen became Josh Allen in part because of Daboll, as you said, not because of Beane. Jones played better last year because of Daboll(and Tierney). If Daboll said to Schoen that DJ is mediocre and not worth 5 years $160 mill, Jones isn't getting that contract. There is no ay Schoen does that to Daboll.
You may be correct that if the Giants go QB and can get either of Maye or Daniels they go Maye. But I absolutely guarantee you that if Daboll tells Mara and Schoen that Daniels is the better QB andshows/explains why he is, Daniels will be the pick. If it is a "tie" (ability and developmentally) between the two and Schoen and Mara would rather Maye, Daboll will go with it because Schoen will show Daboll why Maye is the better choice for NYC area.
This isn't George Young telling Bill Parcells what players he will get anymore. In this case, the GM and HC are tied together and will work through their difference.
IMHO John Mara may be a tie breaker on this choice more than an instigator.
Quote:
I will be shocked if DeVito doesn't look like a train wreck against the Eagles.
The funny thing was - remember how Webb looked against them last year? The Eagles needed to win that game too.
This was exactly my thought as well. DeVito is a no lose call option at this point. If he is bad, who cares. Losses are good for draft position. But if he is good, that will not only give us a solid third guy in the quarterback room next year, but it will reaffirm Daboll's capacity to elevate quarterback talent. Which will be confidence inspiring when the much anticipated successor arrives next spring...
After last year I was under the same misconception about Jones that I think Schoen and Daboll were - they simplified the offense enough and added enough designed runs that they could make Jones a productive NFL QB. As we saw in the second half of last year, once defenses made Jones stand in the pocket, the offense completely dried up. Yeah he had good games against the Colts and Vikings. If you want to know how hard it is for a QB to have a good day against the Vikings 2022 defense, go look at what Mac Jones did to them (spoiler alert - he shredded them).
There were no good QB options out there so Schoen rolled the dice that they could continue to make progress with Jones to have him play at least passable for this year and next. The gamble did not pay off. The stats Jones put up in 2022 are his NFL ceiling. It was a mistake, but there were a lot of factors contributing to that mistake.
I trust Schoen and Daboll to get a QB this year and grow him into a productive NFL starter, as well as to continue to grow Devito to hopefully be a solid backup. I also trust they will learn from the contract mistake they made with Jones.
Jones is done with the Giants after next year. A concussion, two serious neck injuries, and now a torn ACL mean he will be released in about 15 months, albeit with a $22M cap hit. He'd have to be a consensus top 10 QB for that not to be true. His running also makes it more likely that he will suffer another concussion or neck injury. And I say all that as someone who likes Jones more than most here, even though I was totally opposed to drafting him at #6. But his play was never remotely good enough to warrant the contract he received.
After Jones is released, another team might sign him as a "bridge starting QB" for a year or two until they find a better option. After that, he will be a high-end backup or "spot starter," which is fine.
Last year, by all accounts the best year of Jones career, Jones had 11 games sub -200 yds . He had 7 games of 1 TD and and an additional 6 games with O TDs.
He had 7 games with both sub 200 yds and 0-1 TDs.
Ill just point out this does not include an additional 4 games where he threw for 200-228 yds and 0-1 TDs.
And I cant go through every game but there was a game like Washington on SNF where Jones put up 160 yds 35 rush 0 TDs and the Giants won 20-12 with just 13 pts of offense on a defense TD by Thibodeaux and the D got a second TO.
Thats in his best year of his career
Who cares? That post was not about Jones. I just can't get my head around feeling good about this game. My takeway was very negative on the offensive side despite a few throws I did really like. Even if it was a rookie, the outcome was flat out ugly. Overall, we barely beat a 2 win team despite strong defensive play, on account of the offense.
I get it, a rookie without expectations. Did he show some good things? Sure. At the end of the day, I just find it hard to feel warm and fizzy about this:
Fumble (on handoff from QB)
Punt
Punt
Punt
Punt
TD (short field -- 26 yards after INT)
Punt
....
Punt
Punt
FG (short field -- 18 yards after INT)
Punt
(1) Injuries
(2) Talent
(3) Injuries & Talent
I understand the issue over injuries (and I wish this young man would just retire for his own personal health), but it seems that his "talent" has been denigrated far beyond what he deserves, and I say that knowing full well what his limitations are.
Every NFL QB is talented. Pull any of them out of the context of the NFL and place them them among the general population and they'll be some of the greatest athletes most people have encountered, even the mediocre QBs.
The margins that differentiate a star franchise QB from a JAG backup QB are really thin. We're talking about a quarter-second difference in decision making, half that in terms of difference in release time, etc.
That those margins are as thin as they are is what allows a meh QB to occasionally look like a star franchise QB. Blake Bortles, for example, would never be viewed by history as a franchise QB, but he was able to replicate one for a short stretch.
The same thing tends to happen with DJ, IMO. He absolutely has enough arm. He absolutely has (or had, TBD on the injury front) the wheels to be a weapon on the ground. If you were building a prototype QB, strictly from a physical standpoint, I can understand why a lot of fans would see DJ fitting the description.
But it seems that DJ is a hair too slow here and there and it adds up. We're talking tenths of seconds here. Do you think you could spot the difference between 2.4 seconds and 2.7 seconds? I don't think I could. But I've looked at the numbers enough to realize that 2.4 seconds will likely be a completion with YAC, and 2.7 seconds will likely be a sack, with the blame pinned on the OL.
If you're expecting to see throws sprayed randomly around the field in order to identify the difference between a star and a JAG, you're not going to see it. It won't be that obvious or easily identifiable. But the results, over time, do bear themselves out, IMO.
He can zip it when he needs to and he sure can let it fly deep.
There is no doubt in my mind that he reads quicker than Jones and still will get better.
I have now firmly joined the Darkside, and feel it is time for a new QB. I am also pretty sure Schoen isn't out scouting QBs for his health and every game DeVito looks better than Jones is another step toward a new QB.
I am glad you are the scout, because I thought the oline was awful again. Just inconsistent run blocking and too many free tacklers allowed in the backfield. Absolutely Pugh is not stout enough at the POA. Looks to be only 280 lbs. His technique looks solid, but he is just not strong enough inside.
But yeah the Giants don't have a viable starter. If I were the GM I'd draft two QBs in April.
Wouldn’t that be some shit.
The Eagles will humiliate the Giants in the first game and then decide whether or not they want to humiliate the Giants in the second game. DeVito is sitting in the front car of an impending train wreck.
Quote:
In comment 16305879 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 16305858 M.S. said:
Quote:
on Daniel Jones. From all that I've read on this site, it's due to one of three reasons:
(1) Injuries
(2) Talent
(3) Injuries & Talent
I understand the issue over injuries (and I wish this young man would just retire for his own personal health), but it seems that his "talent" has been denigrated far beyond what he deserves, and I say that knowing full well what his limitations are.
Talent? Are we sure about that? I felt the word Go Terps used yesterday describing the NYG offense was perfect. "Remedial".... it worked because it kept things simple for Daniel. When he is asked to do more, he can't handle it.
I understand I keep harping on it, and it is a very simplistic way of looking at things, but Daniel Jones has a problem with the end zone. He can't seem to reach it. Scoring is kind of important to a QB. Dave Brown had the same problem.
Surely disconcerting about Daniel Jones lack of TD passes. It is what it is, and it ain't pretty. But it's also disconcerting that over his career Daniel Jones never had the opportunity to play with a bona-fide star like Tyreek Hill, CeeDee Lamb, A.J. Brown, Ja'Marr Chase, Davonte Smith, Travis Kelce or Jordan Jefferson, et. al. In the end, Daniel Jones may be a mediocrity (or worse), but he never threw to top shelf talent and he never stood behind an offensive line worthy of NFL status.
He's simultaneously played behind the worst OL + the worst group of skill players in the league. Some QBs will thrive with good OL/bad skill or bad OL/good skill, but you aren't doing jack shit in the NFL with bad OL/bad skill.
For noticing this you get called a cult member.
Unfuckingbelievable
Quote:
In comment 16305935 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 16305879 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 16305858 M.S. said:
Quote:
on Daniel Jones. From all that I've read on this site, it's due to one of three reasons:
(1) Injuries
(2) Talent
(3) Injuries & Talent
I understand the issue over injuries (and I wish this young man would just retire for his own personal health), but it seems that his "talent" has been denigrated far beyond what he deserves, and I say that knowing full well what his limitations are.
Talent? Are we sure about that? I felt the word Go Terps used yesterday describing the NYG offense was perfect. "Remedial".... it worked because it kept things simple for Daniel. When he is asked to do more, he can't handle it.
I understand I keep harping on it, and it is a very simplistic way of looking at things, but Daniel Jones has a problem with the end zone. He can't seem to reach it. Scoring is kind of important to a QB. Dave Brown had the same problem.
Surely disconcerting about Daniel Jones lack of TD passes. It is what it is, and it ain't pretty. But it's also disconcerting that over his career Daniel Jones never had the opportunity to play with a bona-fide star like Tyreek Hill, CeeDee Lamb, A.J. Brown, Ja'Marr Chase, Davonte Smith, Travis Kelce or Jordan Jefferson, et. al. In the end, Daniel Jones may be a mediocrity (or worse), but he never threw to top shelf talent and he never stood behind an offensive line worthy of NFL status.
He's simultaneously played behind the worst OL + the worst group of skill players in the league. Some QBs will thrive with good OL/bad skill or bad OL/good skill, but you aren't doing jack shit in the NFL with bad OL/bad skill.
For noticing this you get called a cult member.
Unfuckingbelievable
No, for being a fucking cult member you get called a cult member.
Did you think Blake Bortles was a star QB being held back by circumstance? Or did you have a more objective view when it wasn't the guy that you really, really, really wanted to like?
Life is too short to spend it praying that a mediocre QB will have everything perfect enough around them to resemble a legit NFL franchise QB.
It works both ways. If the ball comes out sooner, less sacks are placed against their names and the line does not need to hold the defender off as long....
But yeah the Giants don't have a viable starter. If I were the GM I'd draft two QBs in April.
You give me a list of all the wonderful NYG O-Lineman, WRs and TEs since 2019 and I’ll answer your question. (:-)
In those specific terms, I'm curious who out there is a Jones supporter?
Saying "What we are saying is there is no discernible difference between him and the $140 million dollar man" is a statement.
I didn't say Jones shoots puppies.
Keep it going.
2nd best, possible. Why not.
Quote:
In comment 16306034 KDavies said:
Quote:
1 pick away from being undrafted
Correct.
My statement stands.
I don't know for sure, Sy, but Tony Romo, Jeff Garcia, Kurt Warner, Warren Moon, and a few others might like to have a word with you.
Wait...which one of those did it as a rookie again?
Again - my statement stands.
Quote:
In comment 16306040 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16306034 KDavies said:
Quote:
1 pick away from being undrafted
Correct.
My statement stands.
I don't know for sure, Sy, but Tony Romo, Jeff Garcia, Kurt Warner, Warren Moon, and a few others might like to have a word with you.
Wait...which one of those did it as a rookie again?
Again - my statement stands.
haha you're awesome Sy. i don't know wtf people are arguing with a professional scout for.
Where we lose our connection is that I don't know if it is fair to just assume that DJ can't improve or bounce back.
History shows that pretty good players can have bad seasons only to bounce back with good seasons.
**And with that said I still wouldn't shy away from an upgrade at QB if the guy can be drafted. QB should be a priority. I am not deluding myself at all. I just can't sit here and say shit like "life long backup QB, Taylor, is clearly better than Jones." It's anything but clear but it could be true. Taylor had a moment or two early on where he went to the playoffs as a starter only to fade to backup role after his peak. This could certainly be happening with Jones as we speak.
Schoen strikes me as pragmatic and detail orientated. And Daboll has gotten this team to get itself off the mat with some good enough play calling and leadership. I would love to see more wins, maybe even make December interesting, but at the very least I see them competing and fighting week to week. It bodes well.
If Devito lights up GB and wins another game we should all feel free to lose our minds a little bit. Have fun. It's been a painful year we should enjoy something this season if possible.
Quote:
on Daniel Jones. From all that I've read on this site, it's due to one of three reasons:
(1) Injuries
(2) Talent
(3) Injuries & Talent
I understand the issue over injuries (and I wish this young man would just retire for his own personal health), but it seems that his "talent" has been denigrated far beyond what he deserves, and I say that knowing full well what his limitations are.
Every NFL QB is talented. Pull any of them out of the context of the NFL and place them them among the general population and they'll be some of the greatest athletes most people have encountered, even the mediocre QBs.
The margins that differentiate a star franchise QB from a JAG backup QB are really thin. We're talking about a quarter-second difference in decision making, half that in terms of difference in release time, etc.
That those margins are as thin as they are is what allows a meh QB to occasionally look like a star franchise QB. Blake Bortles, for example, would never be viewed by history as a franchise QB, but he was able to replicate one for a short stretch.
The same thing tends to happen with DJ, IMO. He absolutely has enough arm. He absolutely has (or had, TBD on the injury front) the wheels to be a weapon on the ground. If you were building a prototype QB, strictly from a physical standpoint, I can understand why a lot of fans would see DJ fitting the description.
But it seems that DJ is a hair too slow here and there and it adds up. We're talking tenths of seconds here. Do you think you could spot the difference between 2.4 seconds and 2.7 seconds? I don't think I could. But I've looked at the numbers enough to realize that 2.4 seconds will likely be a completion with YAC, and 2.7 seconds will likely be a sack, with the blame pinned on the OL.
If you're expecting to see throws sprayed randomly around the field in order to identify the difference between a star and a JAG, you're not going to see it. It won't be that obvious or easily identifiable. But the results, over time, do bear themselves out, IMO.
When you're right, you're right. You nailed it.
In those specific terms, I'm curious who out there is a Jones supporter?
Are you hoping that they'll self-identify? Because I'd be happy to share some handles if they don't.
In those specific terms, I'm curious who out there is a Jones supporter?
Should the people who never believed in him since the second he was drafted raise their hand? Or are there too many of us?
[quote] The guy scores one TD that was assisted by one of the three turnovers the 2-win pats handed us in a game they were arguably hoping to lose. Sorry, the hype just isn't adding up. [/quot
Devito is playing okay but the hype is the result of DJ haters enjoying themselves.
[quote] The guy scores one TD that was assisted by one of the three turnovers the 2-win pats handed us in a game they were arguably hoping to lose. Sorry, the hype just isn't adding up. [/quot
Devito is playing okay but the hype is the result of DJ haters enjoying themselves.
There is no joy for a Giants fan to admit that their team has a problem at quarterback.
Quote:
By that, I don't mean "don't believe he has had a fair shake" or anything like that, I mean, honestly believes that he is the answer (or will be provided the team sticks with him), and that good things are in store for us in the future with him as the QB?
In those specific terms, I'm curious who out there is a Jones supporter?
Should the people who never believed in him since the second he was drafted raise their hand? Or are there too many of us?
Turn back the clock to 1984 and repeat that sentence with the word "Simms" instead of "Jones".
Quote:
the problem here is anything positive written about other quarterbacks on the roster will be taken as underhanded insult to Daniel.
We're in a weird area with a group of Giants fans.
There is an absolute cult-like following that has arisen around Daniel Jones on this site. If you praise anyone not named Daniel Jones, no matter how slightly, they flood out of the woodwork and call you a hater and a bad fan.
If Jones had a microphone Infront of him and said "DeVito is a usurper and must be dealt with" I would actually worry that some on this board would be heading to Tommy's house almost immediately.
Dude. Enough with this stupid narrative. You just described MAYBE two people on the planet. Most people are ambivalent and just want to win. And there is nothing at all wrong with being a fan of (and defending) someone that you (and quite a few others) feel the need to storm threads and shit on over and over, and over, and ove... again). Some people have a higher opinion of him than you and more than a few others. Get the fuck over it already. I'm tired of having to wade through 10,000 DJ posts on every G*d*mn thread already. It's so beyond OLD.
Quote:
In comment 16306231 UberAlias said:
Quote:
By that, I don't mean "don't believe he has had a fair shake" or anything like that, I mean, honestly believes that he is the answer (or will be provided the team sticks with him), and that good things are in store for us in the future with him as the QB?
In those specific terms, I'm curious who out there is a Jones supporter?
Should the people who never believed in him since the second he was drafted raise their hand? Or are there too many of us?
Turn back the clock to 1984 and repeat that sentence with the word "Simms" instead of "Jones".
If Jones becomes a super bowl mvp i'll buy you a beer
Do you really think DeVito would have performed even marginally better than Jones given the unprecedentedly terrible O-line play in the first part of this year? I know the mantra that good qbs can compensate for poor O-lines. Go rewatch the games.
I ain't no Jones apologist. I'd like to think I'm a realist and I really hope Giants identify and draft a quarterback with the potential to be the One, if for no other reason than there's too much risk in Jones' injury history But the notion that there's no difference between DeVito and Jones is just one other end of the Daniel Jones Derangement Syndrome.
Clatterbuck, intelligent post but I'm afraid to much common sense for some on this board.
Jordan Davis is a freaking MONSTER of a man! He’s going to have his way inside and DeVito will be running for his life!
Quote:
In comment 16306231 UberAlias said:
Quote:
By that, I don't mean "don't believe he has had a fair shake" or anything like that, I mean, honestly believes that he is the answer (or will be provided the team sticks with him), and that good things are in store for us in the future with him as the QB?
In those specific terms, I'm curious who out there is a Jones supporter?
Should the people who never believed in him since the second he was drafted raise their hand? Or are there too many of us?
Turn back the clock to 1984 and repeat that sentence with the word "Simms" instead of "Jones".
Make sure you also erase the words "salary cap" and "free agency" from your vocabulary. And change the NFL on-field rules back to 1984 while you're at it. And then find one isolated example that might have been an outlier even then.
Any other shit from 40 years ago that you want to prop up or did all of your opinions expire a few decades ago?
Joe Schoen
Quote:
Do some of you guys really think DeVito would have won 10 games last year, including an away playoff game?
Do you really think DeVito would have performed even marginally better than Jones given the unprecedentedly terrible O-line play in the first part of this year? I know the mantra that good qbs can compensate for poor O-lines. Go rewatch the games.
I ain't no Jones apologist. I'd like to think I'm a realist and I really hope Giants identify and draft a quarterback with the potential to be the One, if for no other reason than there's too much risk in Jones' injury history But the notion that there's no difference between DeVito and Jones is just one other end of the Daniel Jones Derangement Syndrome.
Clatterbuck, intelligent post but I'm afraid to much common sense for some on this board.
Let us know when you have enough common sense to spell "too" correctly.
Quote:
I don't sound so stupid saying Jones may be the third best QB on his own team?
You don’t really think Taylor is better than DJ do you?
I know you said “may” and that’s a bit of a disclaimer but was that just taking a shot at DJ or do you honestly think Taylor is better?
I was a huge Jones guy until watching his performance this year. He played much worse than both Taylor and Tommy…..that has been painfully obvious . I’m not happy saying this….just being honest sharing my thoughts.
Quote:
claiming "hype" are not getting it.
No one is claiming DeVito is the answer.
What we are saying is there is no discernible difference between him and the $140 million dollar man.
The argument isn't that the Giants have found a starting QB. It's the Giants don't have a starting quarterback.
Big difference.
Go re-read the review on Devito's game. This post is not at all aligned with what was written. It was a glowing review for a kid in a game which the results were one TD on a short field created by the defense, sub 200 yards passing, where we scored tied for the lowest point output scored against the Pats all year. It was an ugly ugly win against a terrible team where the defense and specials played well but not nearly enough done on the offensive side.
I can't reconcile my interpretation of the game with Sy's glowing review.
I agree 100%. The anything but DJ crowd as usual, is not making sense.
Quote:
By that, I don't mean "don't believe he has had a fair shake" or anything like that, I mean, honestly believes that he is the answer (or will be provided the team sticks with him), and that good things are in store for us in the future with him as the QB?
In those specific terms, I'm curious who out there is a Jones supporter?
Are you hoping that they'll self-identify? Because I'd be happy to share some handles if they don't.
Quote:
In comment 16306231 UberAlias said:
Quote:
By that, I don't mean "don't believe he has had a fair shake" or anything like that, I mean, honestly believes that he is the answer (or will be provided the team sticks with him), and that good things are in store for us in the future with him as the QB?
In those specific terms, I'm curious who out there is a Jones supporter?
Are you hoping that they'll self-identify? Because I'd be happy to share some handles if they don't.
There's a lot of people who regularly defend Jones. I'm just wondering if any of them have the courage to actually make this claim. If not, then I'm not even sure what they're arguing for then. Even they don't have faith in him.
Is it not possible to believe both:
1. Jones is not the future as the Giants QB and he will be gone after next year; and
2. Statements claiming DeVito is a better QB are asinine
-Last full season and first with Daboll he played well. Made good decisions, took the team to the playoffs, had a dynamic performance in that win, obviously got killed the next week to a superior team. Pocket presence was much improved. Played like the best player in our offense at times aside from Thomas and the games where Barkley went off. 6th in total QBR in the league in 2022. "But Ryan a lot of that is his rushing..." Yeah, OK, sure, that is part of it. "But Ryan he only played well against the Vikings and Colts." Again, not true. Went toe to toe with some of the league's top QBs and beat them straight up, at times looked flat out better than them for a stretch.
-Outside of that year it has been a lot of average play. I'd argue Judge and Garrett were sort of a disaster for him. Different philosophy around offense, played not to make a mistake. There were some games he looked the part but overall that 2 year stretch was bad. Rookie season he looked great in some games, terrible with turnovers in others.
-This year was pretty much a disaster for everyone the first 6 weeks of the season. Poor play and a historically bad OL play when it came to pressures. Not necessarily talking about sacks here, I'm talking just overall time to throw. Dallas, SF, Seattle, Miami games, he was under siege for majority of those games and it eventually got him hurt.
"But Ryan you are making excuses we are tired of it."
OK...just last season, as in 2022, he played awesome for us when it mattered and won a playoff game. Something that a lot of folks just have conveniently forgotten.
And lastly - this is a team game. Jones wasn't good when he played this year outside of the Arizona second half. We've also seen countless mistakes by OL and WRs drops over his career that haven't helped his cause.
I do believe that he'll be a good player for us next year if they balk at QB because of their draft slot. I'll get laughed at again for saying that, don't really care.
I also think it's incredibly weak as a fan base that some of you guys are dismissing the 2022 performance as if it didn't happen.
It's like you wanted Jones to play that way, and then when he did, you just said well it's because the teams we played were soft so getting to the playoffs and setting a NFL record on the road doesn't matter. We're moving on.
I choose to think that his ceiling is closer to that game than everyone else thinks. Call me crazy but that's my opinion.
But you seem to be forgetting the other playoff game he started. And the other 59 regular season games he started.
We have eyes.
Quote:
By that, I don't mean "don't believe he has had a fair shake" or anything like that, I mean, honestly believes that he is the answer (or will be provided the team sticks with him), and that good things are in store for us in the future with him as the QB?
In those specific terms, I'm curious who out there is a Jones supporter?
Should the people who never believed in him since the second he was drafted raise their hand? Or are there too many of us?
Hand raised here. I am reminded at such a solemn moment of that famous speech...
"April 25, 2019, a date which will live in infamy, in Nashville, Tennessee, a once proud NFL franchise was suddenly and deliberately attacked by the forces of misguided arrogance. Despite the unequivocal warnings from the advanced scouts led by Sy, that great voice of reason from the BBI bunker, the New York Football Giants were led defiantly into the horrifying depths of quarterback hell, to be forever known in posterity as the DJ Era. Today, November 28, 2023, the advanced scouting leadership has reasserted the rightful claim of this franchise to common sense and humility to make certain that this form of treachery shall never again endanger the proper and fitting place of the New York Football Giants in the pantheon of great sports franchises."
So it is written. So it shall be done.
-Last full season and first with Daboll he played well. Made good decisions, took the team to the playoffs, had a dynamic performance in that win, obviously got killed the next week to a superior team. Pocket presence was much improved. Played like the best player in our offense at times aside from Thomas and the games where Barkley went off. 6th in total QBR in the league in 2022. "But Ryan a lot of that is his rushing..." Yeah, OK, sure, that is part of it. "But Ryan he only played well against the Vikings and Colts." Again, not true. Went toe to toe with some of the league's top QBs and beat them straight up, at times looked flat out better than them for a stretch.
-Outside of that year it has been a lot of average play. I'd argue Judge and Garrett were sort of a disaster for him. Different philosophy around offense, played not to make a mistake. There were some games he looked the part but overall that 2 year stretch was bad. Rookie season he looked great in some games, terrible with turnovers in others.
-This year was pretty much a disaster for everyone the first 6 weeks of the season. Poor play and a historically bad OL play when it came to pressures. Not necessarily talking about sacks here, I'm talking just overall time to throw. Dallas, SF, Seattle, Miami games, he was under siege for majority of those games and it eventually got him hurt.
"But Ryan you are making excuses we are tired of it."
OK...just last season, as in 2022, he played awesome for us when it mattered and won a playoff game. Something that a lot of folks just have conveniently forgotten.
And lastly - this is a team game. Jones wasn't good when he played this year outside of the Arizona second half. We've also seen countless mistakes by OL and WRs drops over his career that haven't helped his cause.
I do believe that he'll be a good player for us next year if they balk at QB because of their draft slot. I'll get laughed at again for saying that, don't really care.
I also think it's incredibly weak as a fan base that some of you guys are dismissing the 2022 performance as if it didn't happen.
It's like you wanted Jones to play that way, and then when he did, you just said well it's because the teams we played were soft so getting to the playoffs and setting a NFL record on the road doesn't matter. We're moving on.
I choose to think that his ceiling is closer to that game than everyone else thinks. Call me crazy but that's my opinion.
I think part of the disconnect on this board right now is that the people that want to move on from Jones (myself included) don't want just an average (or even good QB). That won't get you to the promised land in this league. So, the opportunity to keep shooting for the superstar/stud will always be alluring until we find that guy. I am certain it's not Jones. I'm not even sure he can be average or good anymore, but I know he won't be a superstar that takes his team to the SB.
I think you should draft the next Giant QB, apparently you know more than Schoen.
Quote:
In comment 16306288 cjac said:
Quote:
In comment 16306231 UberAlias said:
Quote:
By that, I don't mean "don't believe he has had a fair shake" or anything like that, I mean, honestly believes that he is the answer (or will be provided the team sticks with him), and that good things are in store for us in the future with him as the QB?
In those specific terms, I'm curious who out there is a Jones supporter?
Should the people who never believed in him since the second he was drafted raise their hand? Or are there too many of us?
Turn back the clock to 1984 and repeat that sentence with the word "Simms" instead of "Jones".
If Jones becomes a super bowl mvp i'll buy you a beer
I'll take it! (grin) I have no idea if Jones is the guy. I have no idea if he's ever going to be a top QB. But I felt the same about Simms, and I felt the same about Eli. And Hoss was no great shakes in NY after winning the whole enchilada against Buffalo, replacing Simms in Week 14.
QBs don't play each other head to head. They play the other team's defense. I have no interest in having DJ be an attachment to Wink's unit having success against opposing QBs.