he did not draft DeVito. Passed on him all 7 rounds. For those who believe DeVito is a better QB than Jones, why would you want Schoen sticking around to evaluate QBs this offseason when the Giants determine 1. whether they draft their next starting QB and 2. who that QB will be?
I think you should draft the next Giant QB, apparently you know more than Schoen.
Do some of you guys really think DeVito would have won 10 games last year, including an away playoff game?
Do you really think DeVito would have performed even marginally better than Jones given the unprecedentedly terrible O-line play in the first part of this year? I know the mantra that good qbs can compensate for poor O-lines. Go rewatch the games.
I ain't no Jones apologist. I'd like to think I'm a realist and I really hope Giants identify and draft a quarterback with the potential to be the One, if for no other reason than there's too much risk in Jones' injury history But the notion that there's no difference between DeVito and Jones is just one other end of the Daniel Jones Derangement Syndrome.
Clatterbuck, intelligent post but I'm afraid to much common sense for some on this board.
Let us know when you have enough common sense to spell "too" correctly.
Dude... many of us often post from a phone, when we have some spare minutes, if you want punctuation, spelling and grammar, this is not the place.
OK...just last season, as in 2022, he played awesome for us when it mattered and won a playoff game. Something that a lot of folks just have conveniently forgotten.
TO EVERYONE ON BBI - WHO HERE HAS FORGOTTEN THE GIANTS WON A PLAYOFF GAME LAST YEAR? ANYONE?
I don't think its humanely possible to forget since we are reminded on every single thread from the DJFC members.
OK...just last season, as in 2022, he played awesome for us when it mattered and won a playoff game. Something that a lot of folks just have conveniently forgotten.
TO EVERYONE ON BBI - WHO HERE HAS FORGOTTEN THE GIANTS WON A PLAYOFF GAME LAST YEAR? ANYONE?
I don't think its humanely possible to forget since we are reminded on every single thread from the DJFC members.
DJFC may be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Are you trying to insult people who are a fan of a player of a team that they root for? So effing dumb.
OK...just last season, as in 2022, he played awesome for us when it mattered and won a playoff game. Something that a lot of folks just have conveniently forgotten.
TO EVERYONE ON BBI - WHO HERE HAS FORGOTTEN THE GIANTS WON A PLAYOFF GAME LAST YEAR? ANYONE?
I don't think its humanely possible to forget since we are reminded on every single thread from the DJFC members.
I'm not talking about defending him on that one topic. I mean the people who regularly defend him in these threads over and over. If you believe in the guy, just come out and say it. IMO, I do believe there is some points to be made in the pro-Jones arguments. But most of those points in my view speak to what could be, not necessarily what is. I myself would not come here every day and fight for his name unless I firmly believed he was the answer. Unfortunately, I don't. But I have a sense that, if you honestly believe in the guy --come out and say it. I can respect that. But if you don't really believe in him that much, I do kind of wonder why some would be fighting the battle every day if they themselves didn't fully believe in the guy.
I still believe in Jones as being a good quarterback and one we can win with and advance deep into the playoffs with.
This is what Seattle rookie corner said about Jones in early October:
Quote:
“We knew he liked to stare down his first target,” Witherspoon said when asked about his pick six to help Seattle beat the Giants...
After five years in the NFL, a franchise QB should be way past these amateur mistakes. If Seattle knew it, I guarantee the rest of the league knows the deficiency, too.
I know this has been brought up before but watch a Texans game. Their gifted rookie Stroud acts like he's the five-year vet the way he scans the field and finds open receivers. It's very impressive and creates a lot of envy.
I'm not talking about defending him on that one topic. I mean the people who regularly defend him in these threads over and over. If you believe in the guy, just come out and say it. IMO, I do believe there is some points to be made in the pro-Jones arguments. But most of those points in my view speak to what could be, not necessarily what is. I myself would not come here every day and fight for his name unless I firmly believed he was the answer. Unfortunately, I don't. But I have a sense that, if you honestly believe in the guy --come out and say it. I can respect that. But if you don't really believe in him that much, I do kind of wonder why some would be fighting the battle every day if they themselves didn't fully believe in the guy.
You don't think it's possible to 1. Believe Jones is not the answer at QB in the future and 2. Not be a complete unhinged lunatic about it?
Some of you act like Jones banged your wife. Shit.
Playoff game in 2032 after Jones amasses his career record of 70-180.
The Giants have the fourth lowest winning percentage in all four of the major sports since Daniel Jones got drafted. Let’s stop being impressed by one outlier game while completely ignoring the game he played the next week.
And lastly, we have the owner of the site saying stuff like "Daniel Jones doesn't know how to throw TD passes."
Comments like that are not only insulting to people who watch football, but aren't rooted in anything realistic.
I guess we have conveniently forgotten the times throughout his career where he has indeed, thrown TD passes, including just last season, where he had 2 in the most important game of the year, and 2 in the road playoff win.
Maybe we ask Darren Waller why or how he dropped the perfect TD pass that Jones threw to him from 30 yards out against Miami. Maybe we ask why Engram dropped the throw against the Eagles that would have secured us a division title in 2020 (shitty division, I know). Maybe we ask Jones why he couldn't beat the Chiefs on the road by himself in 2021.
Listen, a lot of coaches this offseason will be fired despite having X/Y/Z accomplishment in past seasons. And a lot more accomplishments than 1 postseason game. That's life in the "Not For Long " league.
I have long supported DJ and still hope he gets a shot somewhere else. But NYG need to move on. If he was going to be a thing he would have by been one by now. Maybe that makes him a victim of circumstance or maybe that's an indictment on him and his NFL limitations. Either way, it doesn't help the future of the NYG to keep hoping each year with him will be different. It won't.
I'm not even necessarily of the opinion we have to go QB in Round 1 but long gone are any personal hopes that we have the near/mid term QB solution in house right now. We don't.
I'm not talking about defending him on that one topic. I mean the people who regularly defend him in these threads over and over. If you believe in the guy, just come out and say it. IMO, I do believe there is some points to be made in the pro-Jones arguments. But most of those points in my view speak to what could be, not necessarily what is. I myself would not come here every day and fight for his name unless I firmly believed he was the answer. Unfortunately, I don't. But I have a sense that, if you honestly believe in the guy --come out and say it. I can respect that. But if you don't really believe in him that much, I do kind of wonder why some would be fighting the battle every day if they themselves didn't fully believe in the guy.
You don't think it's possible to 1. Believe Jones is not the answer at QB in the future and 2. Not be a complete unhinged lunatic about it?
Some of you act like Jones banged your wife. Shit.
I still believe in Jones as being a good quarterback and one we can win with and advance deep into the playoffs with. Happy to share why:
-Last full season and first with Daboll he played well. Made good decisions, took the team to the playoffs, had a dynamic performance in that win, obviously got killed the next week to a superior team. Pocket presence was much improved. Played like the best player in our offense at times aside from Thomas and the games where Barkley went off. 6th in total QBR in the league in 2022. "But Ryan a lot of that is his rushing..." Yeah, OK, sure, that is part of it. "But Ryan he only played well against the Vikings and Colts." Again, not true. Went toe to toe with some of the league's top QBs and beat them straight up, at times looked flat out better than them for a stretch.
-Outside of that year it has been a lot of average play. I'd argue Judge and Garrett were sort of a disaster for him. Different philosophy around offense, played not to make a mistake. There were some games he looked the part but overall that 2 year stretch was bad. Rookie season he looked great in some games, terrible with turnovers in others.
-This year was pretty much a disaster for everyone the first 6 weeks of the season. Poor play and a historically bad OL play when it came to pressures. Not necessarily talking about sacks here, I'm talking just overall time to throw. Dallas, SF, Seattle, Miami games, he was under siege for majority of those games and it eventually got him hurt.
"But Ryan you are making excuses we are tired of it."
OK...just last season, as in 2022, he played awesome for us when it mattered and won a playoff game. Something that a lot of folks just have conveniently forgotten.
And lastly - this is a team game. Jones wasn't good when he played this year outside of the Arizona second half. We've also seen countless mistakes by OL and WRs drops over his career that haven't helped his cause.
I do believe that he'll be a good player for us next year if they balk at QB because of their draft slot. I'll get laughed at again for saying that, don't really care.
I also think it's incredibly weak as a fan base that some of you guys are dismissing the 2022 performance as if it didn't happen.
It's like you wanted Jones to play that way, and then when he did, you just said well it's because the teams we played were soft so getting to the playoffs and setting a NFL record on the road doesn't matter. We're moving on.
I choose to think that his ceiling is closer to that game than everyone else thinks. Call me crazy but that's my opinion.
Absolutely correct, I think the guy has a wealth of talent and your post is a breath of fresh air.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Who hear honestly believes in Jones?
Playoff game in 2032 after Jones amasses his career record of 70-180.
The Giants have the fourth lowest winning percentage in all four of the major sports since Daniel Jones got drafted. Let’s stop being impressed by one outlier game while completely ignoring the game he played the next week.
And lastly, we have the owner of the site saying stuff like "Daniel Jones doesn't know how to throw TD passes."
Comments like that are not only insulting to people who watch football, but aren't rooted in anything realistic.
Nothing realistic except for reality.
He doesn't throw enough TD passes, and he hasn't since his rookie year. Since then, the HC has changed, the OC has changed, the OL has changed, the WRs have changed, the TEs have changed, the fucking turf has changed. The only thing that has stayed the same is DJ.
DJ doesn't know how to throw TD passes. Or if he does know how to, then he must be consciously deciding to not do it.
I'm not talking about defending him on that one topic. I mean the people who regularly defend him in these threads over and over. If you believe in the guy, just come out and say it. IMO, I do believe there is some points to be made in the pro-Jones arguments. But most of those points in my view speak to what could be, not necessarily what is. I myself would not come here every day and fight for his name unless I firmly believed he was the answer. Unfortunately, I don't. But I have a sense that, if you honestly believe in the guy --come out and say it. I can respect that. But if you don't really believe in him that much, I do kind of wonder why some would be fighting the battle every day if they themselves didn't fully believe in the guy.
You don't think it's possible to 1. Believe Jones is not the answer at QB in the future and 2. Not be a complete unhinged lunatic about it?
Some of you act like Jones banged your wife. Shit.
And some of you act like Jones is your wife.
The funny thing is, I thought my post was fairly non combative. But then this guy comes back at me about unhinged lunatic's and references to Jones bangging people's wives, LOL.
GD, i understand the need to make everything a dramatic over the top thing.
But Daniel Jones does know how to throw TD passes, we've seen him do it, as you said, just not enough.
I'd argue there are factors at play as to why there haven't been enough. Such as a decently competent OL, and weapons that can get open and catch the ball. We saw glimpes of it in 2022.
I fear the possibility that ownership’s extended family share this unshakable belief that Daniel Jones can be a thing. He won’t. Philly would still be propping up Wentz if they had the same (loser) mentality.
And by the way, I'll be ecstatic if they draft Williams or Maye. Welcome aboard.
But I do not want to overdraft a QB just because Jones played poorly for 4 weeks and then tore his knee. Doesn't make sense to me. Take a top end talent at QB that you think can change your franchise for the better.
If they aren't available, continue to build up with awesome picks at Edge, WR, and interior OL. That would be my plan.
If we draft Malik Nabers at 7, then load up Edge and IOL in round 2, I'll be perfectly happy.
I guess we have conveniently forgotten the times throughout his career where he has indeed, thrown TD passes, including just last season, where he had 2 in the most important game of the year, and 2 in the road playoff win.
He threw 15 touchdowns last year. There’s 15 QBs that have passed that mark this year, and we’ll likely be at 21 by the end of the year. Those names include Jordan Love, CJ Stroud, Baker Mayfield, and Sam Howell. Josh Dobbs likely ends up in that category if he keeps the job. Heck, DeVito might get to 15 in 10 games. He has 36 touchdowns in the last three years. Three quarterbacks threw that amount just last year.
At Jones’ career pace of touchdowns he would need 3.5 years to pass Justin Herbert in career touchdowns, if Herbert took 3.5 years off. He would need two years if he somehow doubled his touchdown output to 30 a year. Herbert has also played one less year.
You’ll be taken more seriously on here when you stop acting like 2022 was some sort of prolific performance.
The Panthers have changed their QB situation like 9 times in 3 seasons and they still suck, because they thought they were a QB away and they aren't. Their OL sucks, their weapons suck, their secondary sucks. They dealt away a ton of assets for Young and they are still terrible because they neglected their roster.
If Williams or Maye are not available, continue to build.
Hell if Schoen like JJ McCarthy, by all means take the guy. Just not in round 1.
And by the way, I'll be ecstatic if they draft Williams or Maye. Welcome aboard.
But I do not want to overdraft a QB just because Jones played poorly for 4 weeks and then tore his knee. Doesn't make sense to me. Take a top end talent at QB that you think can change your franchise for the better.
If they aren't available, continue to build up with awesome picks at Edge, WR, and interior OL. That would be my plan.
If we draft Malik Nabers at 7, then load up Edge and IOL in round 2, I'll be perfectly happy.
ajr, for the 1000th time, you and i are never going to agree on this. You saying stuff like "you'd be taken more seriously here IF" means you just want me to say something that you agree with, and then you'll somehow take me more seriously.
You'll never take me seriously, because I believe in Daniel Jones. Just leave it at that.
RE: RE: The pendulum on BBI has swung way too negative
on Daniel Jones. From all that I've read on this site, it's due to one of three reasons:
(1) Injuries
(2) Talent
(3) Injuries & Talent
I understand the issue over injuries (and I wish this young man would just retire for his own personal health), but it seems that his "talent" has been denigrated far beyond what he deserves, and I say that knowing full well what his limitations are.
Every NFL QB is talented. Pull any of them out of the context of the NFL and place them them among the general population and they'll be some of the greatest athletes most people have encountered, even the mediocre QBs.
The margins that differentiate a star franchise QB from a JAG backup QB are really thin. We're talking about a quarter-second difference in decision making, half that in terms of difference in release time, etc.
That those margins are as thin as they are is what allows a meh QB to occasionally look like a star franchise QB. Blake Bortles, for example, would never be viewed by history as a franchise QB, but he was able to replicate one for a short stretch.
The same thing tends to happen with DJ, IMO. He absolutely has enough arm. He absolutely has (or had, TBD on the injury front) the wheels to be a weapon on the ground. If you were building a prototype QB, strictly from a physical standpoint, I can understand why a lot of fans would see DJ fitting the description.
But it seems that DJ is a hair too slow here and there and it adds up. We're talking tenths of seconds here. Do you think you could spot the difference between 2.4 seconds and 2.7 seconds? I don't think I could. But I've looked at the numbers enough to realize that 2.4 seconds will likely be a completion with YAC, and 2.7 seconds will likely be a sack, with the blame pinned on the OL.
If you're expecting to see throws sprayed randomly around the field in order to identify the difference between a star and a JAG, you're not going to see it. It won't be that obvious or easily identifiable. But the results, over time, do bear themselves out, IMO.
This is a fantastic post. I wish you would post this way more often, honestly. It adds a LOT more value to this site than back and forth going after somebody.
OK...just last season, as in 2022, he played awesome for us when it mattered and won a playoff game. Something that a lot of folks just have conveniently forgotten.
TO EVERYONE ON BBI - WHO HERE HAS FORGOTTEN THE GIANTS WON A PLAYOFF GAME LAST YEAR? ANYONE?
I don't think its humanely possible to forget since we are reminded on every single thread from the DJFC members.
DJFC may be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Are you trying to insult people who are a fan of a player of a team that they root for? So effing dumb.
The DJFC term refers to those who root for DJ above the Giants, not simply because he's the Giants' QB. The fans who are more invested in rooting for the redemption story of DJ proving his doubters (or "haters") wrong than they are in the Giants being a consistent championship contender.
The reason for my view on what constitutes a DJFC poster is that most of these fans have no problem trashing the other 52 players on the roster in their effort to make excuses for DJ, but refuse to place any blame on #8. Why do they say that someone is a "bad fan" if they are done with DJ at QB, but those same posters will call KT a bust, or call Waller a "china doll," etc.? There are several examples of this on the top page of threads right now even with DJ on IR.
Why does DJ get undying affection and loyalty but no other Giants get the same treatment?
ajr, for the 1000th time, you and i are never going to agree on this. You saying stuff like "you'd be taken more seriously here IF" means you just want me to say something that you agree with, and then you'll somehow take me more seriously.
You'll never take me seriously, because I believe in Daniel Jones. Just leave it at that.
Well no, I’ll never take you serious because you’re an idiot. But there still might be hope for the rest of the board.
ajr, the clock restarted on Jones when they hired Daboll.
I couldn't care less how he played before that, which is why I mentioned earlier that his rookie year he showed a lot, and then was bad a lot, and then those 2 years with Judge and Garrett were a shitshow.
Daboll showed what he can do. I'm confident he can get there again and be better than that. But if they choose to go in another direction I am absolutely fine with it.
I am not sure why I am being attacked for having this opinion, but I get it.
I'm not talking about defending him on that one topic. I mean the people who regularly defend him in these threads over and over. If you believe in the guy, just come out and say it. IMO, I do believe there is some points to be made in the pro-Jones arguments. But most of those points in my view speak to what could be, not necessarily what is. I myself would not come here every day and fight for his name unless I firmly believed he was the answer. Unfortunately, I don't. But I have a sense that, if you honestly believe in the guy --come out and say it. I can respect that. But if you don't really believe in him that much, I do kind of wonder why some would be fighting the battle every day if they themselves didn't fully believe in the guy.
You don't think it's possible to 1. Believe Jones is not the answer at QB in the future and 2. Not be a complete unhinged lunatic about it?
Some of you act like Jones banged your wife. Shit.
And some of you act like Jones is your wife.
The funny thing is, I thought my post was fairly non combative. But then this guy comes back at me about unhinged lunatic's and references to Jones bangging people's wives, LOL.
Yep, it doesn't really matter Uber. They've lost their minds at this point. I am convinced.
ajr, for the 1000th time, you and i are never going to agree on this. You saying stuff like "you'd be taken more seriously here IF" means you just want me to say something that you agree with, and then you'll somehow take me more seriously.
You'll never take me seriously, because I believe in Daniel Jones. Just leave it at that.
Well no, I’ll never take you serious because you’re an idiot. But there still might be hope for the rest of the board.
Got it - and posts like that are the reason that this conversation is no longer fun for anybody.
GD, there is not a single poster on this message board or any Giants fan who would somehow magically root for the success of Daniel Jones over the success of the Giants as a team.
That is a completely made up thing. Nobody would be a true fan of the Giants if that were the case.
I love the Giants. I also think Jones can be really good. I also would not give a shit if they drafted another QB who becomes great and the team is great.
I am not sure why you guys continue to say things like that.
ajr, the clock restarted on Jones when they hired Daboll.
I couldn't care less how he played before that, which is why I mentioned earlier that his rookie year he showed a lot, and then was bad a lot, and then those 2 years with Judge and Garrett were a shitshow.
Daboll showed what he can do. I'm confident he can get there again and be better than that. But if they choose to go in another direction I am absolutely fine with it.
I am not sure why I am being attacked for having this opinion, but I get it.
That’s not how it works. The other years just don’t count in deciding what Jones is as a quarterback. If that was the case Winston would still have a job based on his 2016 season.
We’re not talking about an MVP season, we’re talking about a season where he had more 0 touchdown games than multi touchdown games passing. Daboll showed what he can do with Jones, 15 touchdowns with a remedial passing game and some smoke and mirrors. That’s Jones’ ceiling, and it’s evident how it started to come crashing down in the second half of last year against good teams and carried into this year. His 2022 season as passer is basically identical to his 2022 and 2021 seasons just with a 3% bump in completion percentage and a .4% bump in TD percentage.
He was the same guy in 2022 he’s been his whole career, a mediocre at best QB who can’t throw for touchdowns. They just happened to have more things go their way last year and won more games.
How about we all relax....try to win games and let competition decide
QB, if the chance to draft a QB comes along you have to do it! And...It doesn't require the 1st two picks in the draft...it requires good scouting!!!!! Jones has a long rehab, he might and might not be the answer, but we own him to the tune of 40 million. I get why people like him he checks EVERY INTAGABLE Box but he has not developed any constancy. Does he consistently make good reads, NO. I get the line is shaky but so are a lot of crappy OLines and many of the QB's behind them have played better. Has he had some real good games? Yes...but not consistently over his time. I think he's a better football player than a QB. Use him like Tayson Hill??? Taylor might be the odd man out, FA, older and injury prone. Draft a younger prospect. So lets relax, let DJ heal, bring in competition, keep developing DeVito, and roll the ball out and let the best man win. Us arguing achieves nothing.
about Joe Schoen's decision making are so far wide of the mark, but not really surprising.
I really can't be bothered to get into it, but you have no idea how the Giant's organisation functions.
RE: How about we all relax....try to win games and let competition decide
QB, if the chance to draft a QB comes along you have to do it! And...It doesn't require the 1st two picks in the draft...it requires good scouting!!!!! Jones has a long rehab, he might and might not be the answer, but we own him to the tune of 40 million. I get why people like him he checks EVERY INTAGABLE Box but he has not developed any constancy. Does he consistently make good reads, NO. I get the line is shaky but so are a lot of crappy OLines and many of the QB's behind them have played better. Has he had some real good games? Yes...but not consistently over his time. I think he's a better football player than a QB. Use him like Tayson Hill??? Taylor might be the odd man out, FA, older and injury prone. Draft a younger prospect. So lets relax, let DJ heal, bring in competition, keep developing DeVito, and roll the ball out and let the best man win. Us arguing achieves nothing.
Sure it does. It's what fan forums were built for.
Some of you can't come to grips with the fact that I think Jones can be really good, so you then conflate it with other arguments and other insults that have nothing to do with Jones.
I've said that tanking is for losers and rooting for losses is for losers, and I'll continue to support that theory. Not any one player is a guarantee, there are QBs who get drafted beyond Williams or Maye that could likely be better than them. There are QBs who come out of the 2025 and 2026 draft who may be better than them.
I root for the Giants to win every Sunday. That doesn't make me a better fan than anyone else. I just think rooting for losses is weak, and it doesn't have anything to do with Daniel Jones.
If the Giants have the 8th pick and take Jayden Daniels, I won't agree with it, but I'll root like hell for the kid and hope he's really good.
Some of you can't come to grips with the fact that I think Jones can be really good, so you then conflate it with other arguments and other insults that have nothing to do with Jones.
I've said that tanking is for losers and rooting for losses is for losers, and I'll continue to support that theory. Not any one player is a guarantee, there are QBs who get drafted beyond Williams or Maye that could likely be better than them. There are QBs who come out of the 2025 and 2026 draft who may be better than them.
I root for the Giants to win every Sunday. That doesn't make me a better fan than anyone else. I just think rooting for losses is weak, and it doesn't have anything to do with Daniel Jones.
If the Giants have the 8th pick and take Jayden Daniels, I won't agree with it, but I'll root like hell for the kid and hope he's really good.
Do you think he can be good enough to get the Giants to a SB?
Some of you can't come to grips with the fact that I think Jones can be really good, so you then conflate it with other arguments and other insults that have nothing to do with Jones.
I've said that tanking is for losers and rooting for losses is for losers, and I'll continue to support that theory. Not any one player is a guarantee, there are QBs who get drafted beyond Williams or Maye that could likely be better than them. There are QBs who come out of the 2025 and 2026 draft who may be better than them.
I root for the Giants to win every Sunday. That doesn't make me a better fan than anyone else. I just think rooting for losses is weak, and it doesn't have anything to do with Daniel Jones.
If the Giants have the 8th pick and take Jayden Daniels, I won't agree with it, but I'll root like hell for the kid and hope he's really good.
We have come to grips with it; we just can't believe any sober, sane individual would still believe so. ;0)
Quote:
he did not draft DeVito. Passed on him all 7 rounds. For those who believe DeVito is a better QB than Jones, why would you want Schoen sticking around to evaluate QBs this offseason when the Giants determine 1. whether they draft their next starting QB and 2. who that QB will be?
I think you should draft the next Giant QB, apparently you know more than Schoen.
What a stupid comment.
Quote:
In comment 16306108 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
Do some of you guys really think DeVito would have won 10 games last year, including an away playoff game?
Do you really think DeVito would have performed even marginally better than Jones given the unprecedentedly terrible O-line play in the first part of this year? I know the mantra that good qbs can compensate for poor O-lines. Go rewatch the games.
I ain't no Jones apologist. I'd like to think I'm a realist and I really hope Giants identify and draft a quarterback with the potential to be the One, if for no other reason than there's too much risk in Jones' injury history But the notion that there's no difference between DeVito and Jones is just one other end of the Daniel Jones Derangement Syndrome.
Clatterbuck, intelligent post but I'm afraid to much common sense for some on this board.
Let us know when you have enough common sense to spell "too" correctly.
I don't edit, BBI gets it raw.
OK...just last season, as in 2022, he played awesome for us when it mattered and won a playoff game. Something that a lot of folks just have conveniently forgotten.
TO EVERYONE ON BBI - WHO HERE HAS FORGOTTEN THE GIANTS WON A PLAYOFF GAME LAST YEAR? ANYONE?
I don't think its humanely possible to forget since we are reminded on every single thread from the DJFC members.
Quote:
OK...just last season, as in 2022, he played awesome for us when it mattered and won a playoff game. Something that a lot of folks just have conveniently forgotten.
TO EVERYONE ON BBI - WHO HERE HAS FORGOTTEN THE GIANTS WON A PLAYOFF GAME LAST YEAR? ANYONE?
I don't think its humanely possible to forget since we are reminded on every single thread from the DJFC members.
DJFC may be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Are you trying to insult people who are a fan of a player of a team that they root for? So effing dumb.
Quote:
OK...just last season, as in 2022, he played awesome for us when it mattered and won a playoff game. Something that a lot of folks just have conveniently forgotten.
TO EVERYONE ON BBI - WHO HERE HAS FORGOTTEN THE GIANTS WON A PLAYOFF GAME LAST YEAR? ANYONE?
I don't think its humanely possible to forget since we are reminded on every single thread from the DJFC members.
Another fool that thinks DJFC is a cool term.
This is what Seattle rookie corner said about Jones in early October:
After five years in the NFL, a franchise QB should be way past these amateur mistakes. If Seattle knew it, I guarantee the rest of the league knows the deficiency, too.
I know this has been brought up before but watch a Texans game. Their gifted rookie Stroud acts like he's the five-year vet the way he scans the field and finds open receivers. It's very impressive and creates a lot of envy.
You don't think it's possible to 1. Believe Jones is not the answer at QB in the future and 2. Not be a complete unhinged lunatic about it?
Some of you act like Jones banged your wife. Shit.
The Giants have the fourth lowest winning percentage in all four of the major sports since Daniel Jones got drafted. Let’s stop being impressed by one outlier game while completely ignoring the game he played the next week.
Comments like that are not only insulting to people who watch football, but aren't rooted in anything realistic.
I guess we have conveniently forgotten the times throughout his career where he has indeed, thrown TD passes, including just last season, where he had 2 in the most important game of the year, and 2 in the road playoff win.
Maybe we ask Darren Waller why or how he dropped the perfect TD pass that Jones threw to him from 30 yards out against Miami. Maybe we ask why Engram dropped the throw against the Eagles that would have secured us a division title in 2020 (shitty division, I know). Maybe we ask Jones why he couldn't beat the Chiefs on the road by himself in 2021.
I have long supported DJ and still hope he gets a shot somewhere else. But NYG need to move on. If he was going to be a thing he would have by been one by now. Maybe that makes him a victim of circumstance or maybe that's an indictment on him and his NFL limitations. Either way, it doesn't help the future of the NYG to keep hoping each year with him will be different. It won't.
I'm not even necessarily of the opinion we have to go QB in Round 1 but long gone are any personal hopes that we have the near/mid term QB solution in house right now. We don't.
I'm not sure what else to say here.
Quote:
I'm not talking about defending him on that one topic. I mean the people who regularly defend him in these threads over and over. If you believe in the guy, just come out and say it. IMO, I do believe there is some points to be made in the pro-Jones arguments. But most of those points in my view speak to what could be, not necessarily what is. I myself would not come here every day and fight for his name unless I firmly believed he was the answer. Unfortunately, I don't. But I have a sense that, if you honestly believe in the guy --come out and say it. I can respect that. But if you don't really believe in him that much, I do kind of wonder why some would be fighting the battle every day if they themselves didn't fully believe in the guy.
You don't think it's possible to 1. Believe Jones is not the answer at QB in the future and 2. Not be a complete unhinged lunatic about it?
Some of you act like Jones banged your wife. Shit.
And some of you act like Jones is your wife.
No it is just a dumbass term used by those wanting to seem cool and annoy the shit out of the rest of the board.
And I know Jones isn't the guy and it is time to move on.
-Last full season and first with Daboll he played well. Made good decisions, took the team to the playoffs, had a dynamic performance in that win, obviously got killed the next week to a superior team. Pocket presence was much improved. Played like the best player in our offense at times aside from Thomas and the games where Barkley went off. 6th in total QBR in the league in 2022. "But Ryan a lot of that is his rushing..." Yeah, OK, sure, that is part of it. "But Ryan he only played well against the Vikings and Colts." Again, not true. Went toe to toe with some of the league's top QBs and beat them straight up, at times looked flat out better than them for a stretch.
-Outside of that year it has been a lot of average play. I'd argue Judge and Garrett were sort of a disaster for him. Different philosophy around offense, played not to make a mistake. There were some games he looked the part but overall that 2 year stretch was bad. Rookie season he looked great in some games, terrible with turnovers in others.
-This year was pretty much a disaster for everyone the first 6 weeks of the season. Poor play and a historically bad OL play when it came to pressures. Not necessarily talking about sacks here, I'm talking just overall time to throw. Dallas, SF, Seattle, Miami games, he was under siege for majority of those games and it eventually got him hurt.
"But Ryan you are making excuses we are tired of it."
OK...just last season, as in 2022, he played awesome for us when it mattered and won a playoff game. Something that a lot of folks just have conveniently forgotten.
And lastly - this is a team game. Jones wasn't good when he played this year outside of the Arizona second half. We've also seen countless mistakes by OL and WRs drops over his career that haven't helped his cause.
I do believe that he'll be a good player for us next year if they balk at QB because of their draft slot. I'll get laughed at again for saying that, don't really care.
I also think it's incredibly weak as a fan base that some of you guys are dismissing the 2022 performance as if it didn't happen.
It's like you wanted Jones to play that way, and then when he did, you just said well it's because the teams we played were soft so getting to the playoffs and setting a NFL record on the road doesn't matter. We're moving on.
I choose to think that his ceiling is closer to that game than everyone else thinks. Call me crazy but that's my opinion.
Absolutely correct, I think the guy has a wealth of talent and your post is a breath of fresh air.
Is it not possible to believe both:
1. Jones is not the future as the Giants QB and he will be gone after next year; and
2. Statements claiming DeVito is a better QB are asinine
The Giants have the fourth lowest winning percentage in all four of the major sports since Daniel Jones got drafted. Let’s stop being impressed by one outlier game while completely ignoring the game he played the next week.
Football is a team sport. Ask Justin Herbert.
Comments like that are not only insulting to people who watch football, but aren't rooted in anything realistic.
Nothing realistic except for reality.
He doesn't throw enough TD passes, and he hasn't since his rookie year. Since then, the HC has changed, the OC has changed, the OL has changed, the WRs have changed, the TEs have changed, the fucking turf has changed. The only thing that has stayed the same is DJ.
DJ doesn't know how to throw TD passes. Or if he does know how to, then he must be consciously deciding to not do it.
Quote:
In comment 16306391 UberAlias said:
Quote:
I'm not talking about defending him on that one topic. I mean the people who regularly defend him in these threads over and over. If you believe in the guy, just come out and say it. IMO, I do believe there is some points to be made in the pro-Jones arguments. But most of those points in my view speak to what could be, not necessarily what is. I myself would not come here every day and fight for his name unless I firmly believed he was the answer. Unfortunately, I don't. But I have a sense that, if you honestly believe in the guy --come out and say it. I can respect that. But if you don't really believe in him that much, I do kind of wonder why some would be fighting the battle every day if they themselves didn't fully believe in the guy.
You don't think it's possible to 1. Believe Jones is not the answer at QB in the future and 2. Not be a complete unhinged lunatic about it?
Some of you act like Jones banged your wife. Shit.
And some of you act like Jones is your wife.
But Daniel Jones does know how to throw TD passes, we've seen him do it, as you said, just not enough.
I'd argue there are factors at play as to why there haven't been enough. Such as a decently competent OL, and weapons that can get open and catch the ball. We saw glimpes of it in 2022.
But I do not want to overdraft a QB just because Jones played poorly for 4 weeks and then tore his knee. Doesn't make sense to me. Take a top end talent at QB that you think can change your franchise for the better.
If they aren't available, continue to build up with awesome picks at Edge, WR, and interior OL. That would be my plan.
If we draft Malik Nabers at 7, then load up Edge and IOL in round 2, I'll be perfectly happy.
I guess we have conveniently forgotten the times throughout his career where he has indeed, thrown TD passes, including just last season, where he had 2 in the most important game of the year, and 2 in the road playoff win.
He threw 15 touchdowns last year. There’s 15 QBs that have passed that mark this year, and we’ll likely be at 21 by the end of the year. Those names include Jordan Love, CJ Stroud, Baker Mayfield, and Sam Howell. Josh Dobbs likely ends up in that category if he keeps the job. Heck, DeVito might get to 15 in 10 games. He has 36 touchdowns in the last three years. Three quarterbacks threw that amount just last year.
At Jones’ career pace of touchdowns he would need 3.5 years to pass Justin Herbert in career touchdowns, if Herbert took 3.5 years off. He would need two years if he somehow doubled his touchdown output to 30 a year. Herbert has also played one less year.
You’ll be taken more seriously on here when you stop acting like 2022 was some sort of prolific performance.
If Williams or Maye are not available, continue to build.
Hell if Schoen like JJ McCarthy, by all means take the guy. Just not in round 1.
But I do not want to overdraft a QB just because Jones played poorly for 4 weeks and then tore his knee. Doesn't make sense to me. Take a top end talent at QB that you think can change your franchise for the better.
If they aren't available, continue to build up with awesome picks at Edge, WR, and interior OL. That would be my plan.
If we draft Malik Nabers at 7, then load up Edge and IOL in round 2, I'll be perfectly happy.
4 weeks or 4 out of 5 years?
You'll never take me seriously, because I believe in Daniel Jones. Just leave it at that.
Quote:
on Daniel Jones. From all that I've read on this site, it's due to one of three reasons:
(1) Injuries
(2) Talent
(3) Injuries & Talent
I understand the issue over injuries (and I wish this young man would just retire for his own personal health), but it seems that his "talent" has been denigrated far beyond what he deserves, and I say that knowing full well what his limitations are.
Every NFL QB is talented. Pull any of them out of the context of the NFL and place them them among the general population and they'll be some of the greatest athletes most people have encountered, even the mediocre QBs.
The margins that differentiate a star franchise QB from a JAG backup QB are really thin. We're talking about a quarter-second difference in decision making, half that in terms of difference in release time, etc.
That those margins are as thin as they are is what allows a meh QB to occasionally look like a star franchise QB. Blake Bortles, for example, would never be viewed by history as a franchise QB, but he was able to replicate one for a short stretch.
The same thing tends to happen with DJ, IMO. He absolutely has enough arm. He absolutely has (or had, TBD on the injury front) the wheels to be a weapon on the ground. If you were building a prototype QB, strictly from a physical standpoint, I can understand why a lot of fans would see DJ fitting the description.
But it seems that DJ is a hair too slow here and there and it adds up. We're talking tenths of seconds here. Do you think you could spot the difference between 2.4 seconds and 2.7 seconds? I don't think I could. But I've looked at the numbers enough to realize that 2.4 seconds will likely be a completion with YAC, and 2.7 seconds will likely be a sack, with the blame pinned on the OL.
If you're expecting to see throws sprayed randomly around the field in order to identify the difference between a star and a JAG, you're not going to see it. It won't be that obvious or easily identifiable. But the results, over time, do bear themselves out, IMO.
This is a fantastic post. I wish you would post this way more often, honestly. It adds a LOT more value to this site than back and forth going after somebody.
Quote:
In comment 16306360 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
OK...just last season, as in 2022, he played awesome for us when it mattered and won a playoff game. Something that a lot of folks just have conveniently forgotten.
TO EVERYONE ON BBI - WHO HERE HAS FORGOTTEN THE GIANTS WON A PLAYOFF GAME LAST YEAR? ANYONE?
I don't think its humanely possible to forget since we are reminded on every single thread from the DJFC members.
DJFC may be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Are you trying to insult people who are a fan of a player of a team that they root for? So effing dumb.
The DJFC term refers to those who root for DJ above the Giants, not simply because he's the Giants' QB. The fans who are more invested in rooting for the redemption story of DJ proving his doubters (or "haters") wrong than they are in the Giants being a consistent championship contender.
The reason for my view on what constitutes a DJFC poster is that most of these fans have no problem trashing the other 52 players on the roster in their effort to make excuses for DJ, but refuse to place any blame on #8. Why do they say that someone is a "bad fan" if they are done with DJ at QB, but those same posters will call KT a bust, or call Waller a "china doll," etc.? There are several examples of this on the top page of threads right now even with DJ on IR.
Why does DJ get undying affection and loyalty but no other Giants get the same treatment?
You'll never take me seriously, because I believe in Daniel Jones. Just leave it at that.
Well no, I’ll never take you serious because you’re an idiot. But there still might be hope for the rest of the board.
I couldn't care less how he played before that, which is why I mentioned earlier that his rookie year he showed a lot, and then was bad a lot, and then those 2 years with Judge and Garrett were a shitshow.
Daboll showed what he can do. I'm confident he can get there again and be better than that. But if they choose to go in another direction I am absolutely fine with it.
I am not sure why I am being attacked for having this opinion, but I get it.
Quote:
In comment 16306397 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 16306391 UberAlias said:
Quote:
I'm not talking about defending him on that one topic. I mean the people who regularly defend him in these threads over and over. If you believe in the guy, just come out and say it. IMO, I do believe there is some points to be made in the pro-Jones arguments. But most of those points in my view speak to what could be, not necessarily what is. I myself would not come here every day and fight for his name unless I firmly believed he was the answer. Unfortunately, I don't. But I have a sense that, if you honestly believe in the guy --come out and say it. I can respect that. But if you don't really believe in him that much, I do kind of wonder why some would be fighting the battle every day if they themselves didn't fully believe in the guy.
You don't think it's possible to 1. Believe Jones is not the answer at QB in the future and 2. Not be a complete unhinged lunatic about it?
Some of you act like Jones banged your wife. Shit.
And some of you act like Jones is your wife.
The funny thing is, I thought my post was fairly non combative. But then this guy comes back at me about unhinged lunatic's and references to Jones bangging people's wives, LOL.
Yep, it doesn't really matter Uber. They've lost their minds at this point. I am convinced.
Quote:
ajr, for the 1000th time, you and i are never going to agree on this. You saying stuff like "you'd be taken more seriously here IF" means you just want me to say something that you agree with, and then you'll somehow take me more seriously.
You'll never take me seriously, because I believe in Daniel Jones. Just leave it at that.
Well no, I’ll never take you serious because you’re an idiot. But there still might be hope for the rest of the board.
Got it - and posts like that are the reason that this conversation is no longer fun for anybody.
That is a completely made up thing. Nobody would be a true fan of the Giants if that were the case.
I love the Giants. I also think Jones can be really good. I also would not give a shit if they drafted another QB who becomes great and the team is great.
I am not sure why you guys continue to say things like that.
I couldn't care less how he played before that, which is why I mentioned earlier that his rookie year he showed a lot, and then was bad a lot, and then those 2 years with Judge and Garrett were a shitshow.
Daboll showed what he can do. I'm confident he can get there again and be better than that. But if they choose to go in another direction I am absolutely fine with it.
I am not sure why I am being attacked for having this opinion, but I get it.
That’s not how it works. The other years just don’t count in deciding what Jones is as a quarterback. If that was the case Winston would still have a job based on his 2016 season.
We’re not talking about an MVP season, we’re talking about a season where he had more 0 touchdown games than multi touchdown games passing. Daboll showed what he can do with Jones, 15 touchdowns with a remedial passing game and some smoke and mirrors. That’s Jones’ ceiling, and it’s evident how it started to come crashing down in the second half of last year against good teams and carried into this year. His 2022 season as passer is basically identical to his 2022 and 2021 seasons just with a 3% bump in completion percentage and a .4% bump in TD percentage.
He was the same guy in 2022 he’s been his whole career, a mediocre at best QB who can’t throw for touchdowns. They just happened to have more things go their way last year and won more games.
I really can't be bothered to get into it, but you have no idea how the Giant's organisation functions.
Sure it does. It's what fan forums were built for.
Some of you act like Jones banged your wife. Shit.
He's probably bad at that too
I've said that tanking is for losers and rooting for losses is for losers, and I'll continue to support that theory. Not any one player is a guarantee, there are QBs who get drafted beyond Williams or Maye that could likely be better than them. There are QBs who come out of the 2025 and 2026 draft who may be better than them.
I root for the Giants to win every Sunday. That doesn't make me a better fan than anyone else. I just think rooting for losses is weak, and it doesn't have anything to do with Daniel Jones.
If the Giants have the 8th pick and take Jayden Daniels, I won't agree with it, but I'll root like hell for the kid and hope he's really good.
I've said that tanking is for losers and rooting for losses is for losers, and I'll continue to support that theory. Not any one player is a guarantee, there are QBs who get drafted beyond Williams or Maye that could likely be better than them. There are QBs who come out of the 2025 and 2026 draft who may be better than them.
I root for the Giants to win every Sunday. That doesn't make me a better fan than anyone else. I just think rooting for losses is weak, and it doesn't have anything to do with Daniel Jones.
If the Giants have the 8th pick and take Jayden Daniels, I won't agree with it, but I'll root like hell for the kid and hope he's really good.
Do you think he can be good enough to get the Giants to a SB?
I've said that tanking is for losers and rooting for losses is for losers, and I'll continue to support that theory. Not any one player is a guarantee, there are QBs who get drafted beyond Williams or Maye that could likely be better than them. There are QBs who come out of the 2025 and 2026 draft who may be better than them.
I root for the Giants to win every Sunday. That doesn't make me a better fan than anyone else. I just think rooting for losses is weak, and it doesn't have anything to do with Daniel Jones.
If the Giants have the 8th pick and take Jayden Daniels, I won't agree with it, but I'll root like hell for the kid and hope he's really good.
Everyone said the same exact thing about Eli Manning and Phil Simms before the light came on.
I choose to think that Jones still has it in him to be really good. You going back and forth about this accomplishes nothing.