And lastly - the regular season game against Minnesota:
QUARTERBACK
-Daniel Jones: 30/42 – 334 yards / 1 TD – 1 INT / 92.8 RAT
Jones added 34 yards on the ground and a successful two-point conversion attempt in a do-or-die situation in the fourth quarter, down two points. From a big picture perspective, this was the best I have seen Jones play all year. The 42 attempts were tied for the fourth-most of his career, second-most of the season. He had a stretch where he completed 22-of-24 passes. He gained a season-high 17 first downs via the air and added two more on the ground. On paper, this was a very good game by Jones. When I took a deeper look, I came away with the same impression.
Jones’ movement in the pocket was brilliant. His clock was spot on, his footwork while keeping his eyes downfield was clean, accuracy was a plus, and decision making was near-perfect. The one blemish was, of course, the fourth-quarter interception on the drive following MIN’s go-ahead touchdown. The ball was intercepted in the red zone, and it was a misplaced ball. Jones had two other bad throws. Nobody can demand perfection out of him, but when you see his stat line and add in the fact Saquon Barkley had another strong day, settling on just 20 points is a loss for the offense overall. While there were other issues stemming from the line, the Bellinger fumble, and the drop by Richie James, the interception was a big-time miss in a big-time situation. He also fumbled earlier in the game (did not result in a turnover) where his ball security technique was the main culprit. This game causes more confliction. For almost the entire game I was ready to say this was the best we have seen out of Jones all year when breaking all elements down. Then, the ill-timed interception. I see vast improvement across multiple components to the position, but once again he left me wanting more.
So we picked 4 games from ‘22 regular season…? What did I miss? How about I pull Sy’s reviews on Jones in the Eagles home game? Or the Seattle game? Or the Lions game?
This shit is getting even weirder with the Jones supporters.
Jones is the only QB in NFL Playoff history to total at least 300 passing yards, 70 rushing yards, and 2 passing TDs in a game.
So, yes, it was historic. He's the only person to do it.
Why is it legitimate to extrapolate from this game? Jones had a good game. Awesome. Why is that significant?
So we would also classify Tommy DeVito's 7 TDs in his first two starts as historic, because no Giants QB had done it before.
Surprised we are not getting more articles on the historic proficiency of Tommy DeVito, and more analysis on why an undrafted rookie is putting up historically good performances with the same team Jones looked so bad with?
Jones couldn't score with a team that an undrafted rookie is putting up historic performances with? Huh?
the Minnesota performance was legit. He was stellar that day.
The problem is he only has a few games like that in five years.
That's the problem.
The rest of his games are less than ordinary or worse.
He actually had a few of those games in 2022.
We need to see that Jones was not very good from 19-21 despite a promising rookie year. Fine. But we also need to see that Jones was good in 2022. He didn't just have one good game. HE had numerous games where he outplayed pro bowl or very good QBs on the other side:
Ravens game
GB game
Jax game
Minny both games (only winning one but was terrific in both)
Add in some other great efforts (colts game) and we can stop saying annoying shit that Jones wasn't any good last year.
Just be honest about things. Fine the Jones bashers were right, but Jones played well in 2022. Don't call it anything else.
So we picked 4 games from ‘22 regular season…? What did I miss? How about I pull Sy’s reviews on Jones in the Eagles home game? Or the Seattle game? Or the Lions game?
This shit is getting even weirder with the Jones supporters.
There are a handful of people on this site who have completely stopped thinking at all and are just emotionally defending Jones like he is their son. This is so fucking weird.
This site was beside itself last year because how inept the offense was for long stretches. It's why ryan cherry-picked the game reviews.
Nope, that's actually not why I put those reviews on there.
I put them on there, because you and the usuals are saying things like "Jones doesn't know how to throw touchdowns" when there is much more to it than that.
the Minnesota performance was legit. He was stellar that day.
The problem is he only has a few games like that in five years.
That's the problem.
The rest of his games are less than ordinary or worse.
He actually had a few of those games in 2022.
We need to see that Jones was not very good from 19-21 despite a promising rookie year. Fine. But we also need to see that Jones was good in 2022. He didn't just have one good game. HE had numerous games where he outplayed pro bowl or very good QBs on the other side:
Ravens game
GB game
Jax game
Minny both games (only winning one but was terrific in both)
Add in some other great efforts (colts game) and we can stop saying annoying shit that Jones wasn't any good last year.
Just be honest about things. Fine the Jones bashers were right, but Jones played well in 2022. Don't call it anything else.
If we’re being honest about things, the four games not counting the playoff game Jones put up the following:
234 yards per game (boosted by 334 against the worst defense in the league), and 1 touchdown per game. If we take out Minnesota he was sub 200 yards a game. That’s mediocre.
Jones at his best is mediocre, unless like last year and his rookie year he’s not playing one of the worst defenses in the league.
This site was beside itself last year because how inept the offense was for long stretches. It's why ryan cherry-picked the game reviews.
Nope, that's actually not why I put those reviews on there.
I put them on there, because you and the usuals are saying things like "Jones doesn't know how to throw touchdowns" when there is much more to it than that.
Last I checked the goal is to score more points than the other team.
This site was beside itself last year because how inept the offense was for long stretches. It's why ryan cherry-picked the game reviews.
Nope, that's actually not why I put those reviews on there.
I put them on there, because you and the usuals are saying things like "Jones doesn't know how to throw touchdowns" when there is much more to it than that.
So we picked 4 games from ‘22 regular season…? What did I miss? How about I pull Sy’s reviews on Jones in the Eagles home game? Or the Seattle game? Or the Lions game?
This shit is getting even weirder with the Jones supporters.
There are a handful of people on this site who have completely stopped thinking at all and are just emotionally defending Jones like he is their son. This is so fucking weird.
This site was beside itself last year because how inept the offense was for long stretches. It's why ryan cherry-picked the game reviews.
I wasn't I said the was a nice pleasant surprise and the metrics back it up. It finished slightly above average.
Again, go back and tell me the 9-10 games DJ helped win last year weren't good performances. I said good, NOT GREAT.
By every metric he was a slightly above average QB last year. And look, I will say it now it appears he fooled people but a lot of you are acting like 2022 didn't happen. It did happen. It was a good season. Going back now and saying it wasn't good is just weird.
My impression of Daniel Jones' season is what I said in the Bugler thread. Daboll and Kafka got him to stop turning the ball over. They schemed things to keep things simple with a lot of RPO, which worked until they faced good defenses who simply didn't fall for the fakes.
It was competent. That's it.
It was no way, shape, or form good enough to defeat teams like the Eagles and Cowboys who continue to toy with Jones, the Giants OL, and targets.
You guys keep blaming the OL and the targets, but not the QB.
Meanwhile, two QBs come in this year for the Giants and there is no dropoff. That's the clue.
It's gotten to the point with the Jones club that they will never give up on him. It's become quasi-religious at this point. For reasons I will never understand.
They must have felt he could build on that. Hasn't happened. May not ever happen. I would plan accordingly, meaning keep an eye on the QB position via all avenues, as I have stated 100 times now.
I am not dug in at all on Jones which is weird for this place. I am more than willing to move on, I would have been willing to move on even if he was playing this season like last, I even said exactly that when he signed the contract.
I just can't listen to people say he sucked last year.
They must have felt he could build on that. Hasn't happened. May not ever happen. I would plan accordingly, meaning keep an eye on the QB position via all avenues, as I have stated 100 times now.
I am not dug in at all on Jones which is weird for this place. I am more than willing to move on, I would have been willing to move on even if he was playing this season like last, I even said exactly that when he signed the contract.
I just can't listen to people say he sucked last year.
I don't think I claimed he sucked last year.
I actually used to defend the heck out of him for the first few years, giving him the benefit of the doubt. Internet is forever. My words are still there.
But he has not elevated his game. He did great in the second half of the Cardinals, but we were scoreless in the first half. Against a bad football team. Jones didn't throw another TD in the other five games, even in garbage time. In the Raiders game, before he got hurt, he was missing throws and the team was scoreless again. Not the 49ers or Cowboys.
Where did I break my silence on Jones? When Taylor came in and the offense didn't look worse.
Eric, you aren't understanding what I'm saying, and that's fine.
Totally fine with moving on from Jones. I couldn't care less if they bring in someone else.
What I'm saying is that I think Jones can be a really good QB and that they could keep building up the team with Schoen's eye for talent, and that would be a fine option as well.
wasn't really you I was referring to with the he sucked line. I mean you didn't really give him credit, but ok. I wasn't calling you out there more the board.
It's just weird how quietly happy this place was with Jones in Early January 23. I don't remember many saying he still sucks. Oddly, many of those people didn't post at all after the WC win. Some people disappeared completely.
wasn't really you I was referring to with the he sucked line. I mean you didn't really give him credit, but ok. I wasn't calling you out there more the board.
It's just weird how quietly happy this place was with Jones in Early January 23. I don't remember many saying he still sucks. Oddly, many of those people didn't post at all after the WC win. Some people disappeared completely.
I am still here taking my lumps, lol.
There were definitely people on here that still had concerns in January of 23
To those who still have faith that Jones can turn it around and don't want to select a QB in this years draft, how do you feel now looking back knowing the Giants passed on Justin Herbert and Tua because of Jones? What if they pass on Maye and Daniels and they go on to becoming great QB's while Jones continues to disappoint?
wasn't really you I was referring to with the he sucked line. I mean you didn't really give him credit, but ok. I wasn't calling you out there more the board.
It's just weird how quietly happy this place was with Jones in Early January 23. I don't remember many saying he still sucks. Oddly, many of those people didn't post at all after the WC win. Some people disappeared completely.
I am still here taking my lumps, lol.
There were definitely people on here that still had concerns in January of 23
They were not unfounded. The optimism made sense too.
At this point nothing would shock me going forward.
To those who still have faith that Jones can turn it around and don't want to select a QB in this years draft, how do you feel now looking back knowing the Giants passed on Justin Herbert and Tua because of Jones? What if they pass on Maye and Daniels and they go on to becoming great QB's while Jones continues to disappoint?
No interest in Tua, and Herbert hasn't shown much lately. Last I checked Jones has a playoff win, Herbert doesn't. And Jones played similar, or even better, than Herbert did at times in 2022.
Herbert has a lot more talent than Jones, but if we are measuring both careers so far, Jones technically has more to show for it.
To those who still have faith that Jones can turn it around and don't want to select a QB in this years draft, how do you feel now looking back knowing the Giants passed on Justin Herbert and Tua because of Jones? What if they pass on Maye and Daniels and they go on to becoming great QB's while Jones continues to disappoint?
No interest in Tua, and Herbert hasn't shown much lately. Last I checked Jones has a playoff win, Herbert doesn't. And Jones played similar, or even better, than Herbert did at times in 2022.
Herbert has a lot more talent than Jones, but if we are measuring both careers so far, Jones technically has more to show for it.
Lmaaaooo. Herbert would have to take the next three years off for Jones to match his career TD numbers.
Last year Herbert went 68-4700-25-10. Herbert’s first two year surpass Jones’ 5 year touchdown total.
My impression of Daniel Jones' season is what I said in the Bugler thread. Daboll and Kafka got him to stop turning the ball over. They schemed things to keep things simple with a lot of RPO, which worked until they faced good defenses who simply didn't fall for the fakes.
It was competent. That's it.
It was no way, shape, or form good enough to defeat teams like the Eagles and Cowboys who continue to toy with Jones, the Giants OL, and targets.
You guys keep blaming the OL and the targets, but not the QB.
Meanwhile, two QBs come in this year for the Giants and there is no dropoff. That's the clue.
It's gotten to the point with the Jones club that they will never give up on him. It's become quasi-religious at this point. For reasons I will never understand.
Jones is a more visually attractive Dave Brown. He looks the part, but performs the same.
in the posts above, Herbert would be a Classic BBI Irony had he been drafted here.
If we had drafted the "force multiplier" Herbert to replace Jones and he failed to elevate the team (assuming the status quo of he not elevating SD/LA stayed in place), the very people who post hundreds of times a week about Jones being a terrible QB would be supporting Herbert.
Why? because they liked him coming out of college while Jones was a no star recruit who was never good at any level of football.
And those same posters would parrot the same arguments Jones supporters have made - that he needs better weapons. That the OL is shit, etc. And it would all likely be due to the premise that "their" choice at QB pre-draft that they posted longingly for would need to succeed to prove they were "right". It doesn't get any more deep than that.
They won't admit it - but we all know it is true. You can see in the way Herbert is defended. You can see it in the way Fields is talked about as just being in a bad situation.
-Daniel Jones: 21/27 – 217 yards / 0 TD – 0 INT / 100.2 RAT
Jones also added 41 rushing yards (not including the three kneel downs) just days after nobody knew if he would miss the game because of an ankle injury suffered last week. Mid-week, we were wondering if NYG would sign Brian Lewerke or Jake Fromm to backup Davis Webb. Now we look back and I think this was Jones’ top performance of the season considering the circumstances. We may see better statistical games from him, but he made multiple big time throws, took some of the biggest hits we have seen this year, and still made a huge difference on the ground. Prior to this game, I wrote down a list of things to look for. At the top? “How does Jones impact the game on a bad wheel?” Athletic quarterbacks are all the craze in the League now, everyone wants one. But what happens when they are nicked up? What happens when they age and lose some of their movement capability? Jones rose to the occasion and what he did post-Barkley injury on the touchdown scoring drive cannot go overlooked. 6/7 – 56 yards including two 3rd-down conversions and 25 yards rushing. What he did with what he had is exactly what good quarterbacks do: create more than the sum of parts. Big-time performance for Jones.
All these "great" games extrapolate into sub 200 yards passing per game and 12.75 passing TD's over 17 games....
Why are we magnetized to mediocrity?
Tommy DeVito's recent three game stretch projects to 34 passing TD's over 17 games... That's almost TRIPLE the TD production of those Jones games shared by Ryan.
in the posts above, Herbert would be a Classic BBI Irony had he been drafted here.
If we had drafted the "force multiplier" Herbert to replace Jones and he failed to elevate the team (assuming the status quo of he not elevating SD/LA stayed in place), the very people who post hundreds of times a week about Jones being a terrible QB would be supporting Herbert.
Why? because they liked him coming out of college while Jones was a no star recruit who was never good at any level of football.
And those same posters would parrot the same arguments Jones supporters have made - that he needs better weapons. That the OL is shit, etc. And it would all likely be due to the premise that "their" choice at QB pre-draft that they posted longingly for would need to succeed to prove they were "right". It doesn't get any more deep than that.
They won't admit it - but we all know it is true. You can see in the way Herbert is defended. You can see it in the way Fields is talked about as just being in a bad situation.
Justin Herbert throws touchdowns, that’s why he would be defended. He would be defended because he’s light years more talented as a quarterback.
There’s zero things Jones does better as a passer than Herbert.
in the posts above, Herbert would be a Classic BBI Irony had he been drafted here.
If we had drafted the "force multiplier" Herbert to replace Jones and he failed to elevate the team (assuming the status quo of he not elevating SD/LA stayed in place), the very people who post hundreds of times a week about Jones being a terrible QB would be supporting Herbert.
Why? because they liked him coming out of college while Jones was a no star recruit who was never good at any level of football.
And those same posters would parrot the same arguments Jones supporters have made - that he needs better weapons. That the OL is shit, etc. And it would all likely be due to the premise that "their" choice at QB pre-draft that they posted longingly for would need to succeed to prove they were "right". It doesn't get any more deep than that.
They won't admit it - but we all know it is true. You can see in the way Herbert is defended. You can see it in the way Fields is talked about as just being in a bad situation.
I so, SO effing agree with this FMIC. It's not even about DJ. It's about A) Over-emphasis by more than a few of one position on a shitty team - And B) It's about Armchair GM's in that group's absolute NEED for being right about who they like or talked up during a draft... lol.
ajr, you keep using TDs as a measure that somehow makes Herbert this amazing quarterback and way better than Jones.
I ask again - does Herbert have a playoff win or not? Has he played on better teams than Jones or not?
Jones has a road playoff win in much worse situations than Herbert has had.
Herbert's QBR in 2022: 60.2
Jones QBR in 2022: 62.9
Herbert is definitely playing better in 2023 than he did in 2022. But the team is 4-7 and going nowhere. He's had plenty of opportunities to win games for them this year and he has failed to do so.
Everyone knows that Herbert is more "talented" than Jones. He has not done anything in his career to back that up yet.
ajr, you keep using TDs as a measure that somehow makes Herbert this amazing quarterback and way better than Jones.
I ask again - does Herbert have a playoff win or not? Has he played on better teams than Jones or not?
Jones has a road playoff win in much worse situations than Herbert has had.
Herbert's QBR in 2022: 60.2
Jones QBR in 2022: 62.9
Herbert is definitely playing better in 2023 than he did in 2022. But the team is 4-7 and going nowhere. He's had plenty of opportunities to win games for them this year and he has failed to do so.
Everyone knows that Herbert is more "talented" than Jones. He has not done anything in his career to back that up yet.
Blake Bortles won two playoff games.
They’ve both only played small sample of playoff game. Besides that one single game what has Jones done that proves he “has more to show” for his career than Herbert?
Herbert has a lot more talent than Jones, but if we are measuring both careers so far, Jones technically has more to show for it.
This gets to the main crux of our differing views on DJ. I would argue that, physically, Jones actually isn't that far behind Herbert in talent - when you consider his legs as well, of course.
It's between the ears where the gap exists. And DJ does not have more to show for his career than Herbert, unless you want to claim that Nick Foles has more to show for his than Dan Marino.
But even by that logic, Mitch Trubisky, Tim Tebow, and Blake Bortles are all in the same rarified air as Daniel Jones, by your argument, and all would supposedly be better than Herbert.
Do you honestly believe that? Or could your pro-Jones bias be coloring your view?
in the posts above, Herbert would be a Classic BBI Irony had he been drafted here.
If we had drafted the "force multiplier" Herbert to replace Jones and he failed to elevate the team (assuming the status quo of he not elevating SD/LA stayed in place), the very people who post hundreds of times a week about Jones being a terrible QB would be supporting Herbert.
Why? because they liked him coming out of college while Jones was a no star recruit who was never good at any level of football.
And those same posters would parrot the same arguments Jones supporters have made - that he needs better weapons. That the OL is shit, etc. And it would all likely be due to the premise that "their" choice at QB pre-draft that they posted longingly for would need to succeed to prove they were "right". It doesn't get any more deep than that.
They won't admit it - but we all know it is true. You can see in the way Herbert is defended. You can see it in the way Fields is talked about as just being in a bad situation.
What is this, a joke?
Of course Herbert would be defended here. And he should be since he is a much better player at the QB position, and has been since he joined the league. It isn't close.
GD, ajr....you guys measure a QB by wins and losses, you've basically said that.
So I ask again, if Herbert is this amazing QB, why does he have more losses than wins?
And why does Jones not get the same benefit of the doubt in having bad coaching/bad teams?
I have never said that. I have consistently said that you measure teams by wins and losses. In fact, one of the main arguments I've had with Thegratefulhead on here is that his view of DJ (or any QB) is entirely focused on wins/losses, and not on the QB's actual performance. It's the sort of narrow viewpoint that would put Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon into the top 50 QBs of all time.
Why does Jones get your benefit of the doubt but not Trubisky, Bortles, Tebow, etc.?
The two times Jones has been "successful" as an NFL QB, the coaches
were forced to simplify scheme to accommodate his inability to process the game how an NFL QB needs to process. IN 2019, Shurmur simplified the game to the point where Jones was literally reading only half the field on any given play. Last year, beyond his running stats, the offense was designed to simplify the game and reduce the mistakes Jones makes. The stats back this up. This year if you have access to the all 22, go watch how many times there are guys wide open down field in the games he started that he either doesn't see or doesn't throw to and goes to a check down option. That is a recipe for mediocrity at best in a league where winning at the highest level is predicated on explosive plays. He doesn't have the juice, and never has in those ways. Any other argument you're watching a different game.
QUARTERBACK
-Daniel Jones: 30/42 – 334 yards / 1 TD – 1 INT / 92.8 RAT
Jones added 34 yards on the ground and a successful two-point conversion attempt in a do-or-die situation in the fourth quarter, down two points. From a big picture perspective, this was the best I have seen Jones play all year. The 42 attempts were tied for the fourth-most of his career, second-most of the season. He had a stretch where he completed 22-of-24 passes. He gained a season-high 17 first downs via the air and added two more on the ground. On paper, this was a very good game by Jones. When I took a deeper look, I came away with the same impression.
Jones’ movement in the pocket was brilliant. His clock was spot on, his footwork while keeping his eyes downfield was clean, accuracy was a plus, and decision making was near-perfect. The one blemish was, of course, the fourth-quarter interception on the drive following MIN’s go-ahead touchdown. The ball was intercepted in the red zone, and it was a misplaced ball. Jones had two other bad throws. Nobody can demand perfection out of him, but when you see his stat line and add in the fact Saquon Barkley had another strong day, settling on just 20 points is a loss for the offense overall. While there were other issues stemming from the line, the Bellinger fumble, and the drop by Richie James, the interception was a big-time miss in a big-time situation. He also fumbled earlier in the game (did not result in a turnover) where his ball security technique was the main culprit. This game causes more confliction. For almost the entire game I was ready to say this was the best we have seen out of Jones all year when breaking all elements down. Then, the ill-timed interception. I see vast improvement across multiple components to the position, but once again he left me wanting more.
I'd bet Sy is willing to move on if we get Caleb Williams or Drake Maye.
This shit is getting even weirder with the Jones supporters.
Quote:
Jones is the only QB in NFL Playoff history to total at least 300 passing yards, 70 rushing yards, and 2 passing TDs in a game.
So, yes, it was historic. He's the only person to do it.
Why is it legitimate to extrapolate from this game? Jones had a good game. Awesome. Why is that significant?
So we would also classify Tommy DeVito's 7 TDs in his first two starts as historic, because no Giants QB had done it before.
Surprised we are not getting more articles on the historic proficiency of Tommy DeVito, and more analysis on why an undrafted rookie is putting up historically good performances with the same team Jones looked so bad with?
Jones couldn't score with a team that an undrafted rookie is putting up historic performances with? Huh?
The problem is he only has a few games like that in five years.
That's the problem.
The rest of his games are less than ordinary or worse.
He actually had a few of those games in 2022.
We need to see that Jones was not very good from 19-21 despite a promising rookie year. Fine. But we also need to see that Jones was good in 2022. He didn't just have one good game. HE had numerous games where he outplayed pro bowl or very good QBs on the other side:
Ravens game
GB game
Jax game
Minny both games (only winning one but was terrific in both)
Add in some other great efforts (colts game) and we can stop saying annoying shit that Jones wasn't any good last year.
Just be honest about things. Fine the Jones bashers were right, but Jones played well in 2022. Don't call it anything else.
This shit is getting even weirder with the Jones supporters.
There are a handful of people on this site who have completely stopped thinking at all and are just emotionally defending Jones like he is their son. This is so fucking weird.
This site was beside itself last year because how inept the offense was for long stretches. It's why ryan cherry-picked the game reviews.
This site was beside itself last year because how inept the offense was for long stretches. It's why ryan cherry-picked the game reviews.
Nope, that's actually not why I put those reviews on there.
I put them on there, because you and the usuals are saying things like "Jones doesn't know how to throw touchdowns" when there is much more to it than that.
Quote:
the Minnesota performance was legit. He was stellar that day.
The problem is he only has a few games like that in five years.
That's the problem.
The rest of his games are less than ordinary or worse.
He actually had a few of those games in 2022.
We need to see that Jones was not very good from 19-21 despite a promising rookie year. Fine. But we also need to see that Jones was good in 2022. He didn't just have one good game. HE had numerous games where he outplayed pro bowl or very good QBs on the other side:
Ravens game
GB game
Jax game
Minny both games (only winning one but was terrific in both)
Add in some other great efforts (colts game) and we can stop saying annoying shit that Jones wasn't any good last year.
Just be honest about things. Fine the Jones bashers were right, but Jones played well in 2022. Don't call it anything else.
If we’re being honest about things, the four games not counting the playoff game Jones put up the following:
234 yards per game (boosted by 334 against the worst defense in the league), and 1 touchdown per game. If we take out Minnesota he was sub 200 yards a game. That’s mediocre.
Jones at his best is mediocre, unless like last year and his rookie year he’s not playing one of the worst defenses in the league.
Quote:
Your definition of "good" is different from mine.
This site was beside itself last year because how inept the offense was for long stretches. It's why ryan cherry-picked the game reviews.
Nope, that's actually not why I put those reviews on there.
I put them on there, because you and the usuals are saying things like "Jones doesn't know how to throw touchdowns" when there is much more to it than that.
Last I checked the goal is to score more points than the other team.
Quote:
Jones is the only QB in NFL Playoff history to total at least 300 passing yards, 70 rushing yards, and 2 passing TDs in a game.
So, yes, it was historic. He's the only person to do it.
Has there been another Giants QB in the modern era that has only thrown two touchdown passes in six starts?
Also historic.
Quote:
Your definition of "good" is different from mine.
This site was beside itself last year because how inept the offense was for long stretches. It's why ryan cherry-picked the game reviews.
Nope, that's actually not why I put those reviews on there.
I put them on there, because you and the usuals are saying things like "Jones doesn't know how to throw touchdowns" when there is much more to it than that.
For four years?
OK.
LOL
Quote:
So we picked 4 games from ‘22 regular season…? What did I miss? How about I pull Sy’s reviews on Jones in the Eagles home game? Or the Seattle game? Or the Lions game?
This shit is getting even weirder with the Jones supporters.
There are a handful of people on this site who have completely stopped thinking at all and are just emotionally defending Jones like he is their son. This is so fucking weird.
You called this same sentiment dumb yesterday.
This site was beside itself last year because how inept the offense was for long stretches. It's why ryan cherry-picked the game reviews.
I wasn't I said the was a nice pleasant surprise and the metrics back it up. It finished slightly above average.
Again, go back and tell me the 9-10 games DJ helped win last year weren't good performances. I said good, NOT GREAT.
By every metric he was a slightly above average QB last year. And look, I will say it now it appears he fooled people but a lot of you are acting like 2022 didn't happen. It did happen. It was a good season. Going back now and saying it wasn't good is just weird.
I give up with some of you.
It was competent. That's it.
It was no way, shape, or form good enough to defeat teams like the Eagles and Cowboys who continue to toy with Jones, the Giants OL, and targets.
You guys keep blaming the OL and the targets, but not the QB.
Meanwhile, two QBs come in this year for the Giants and there is no dropoff. That's the clue.
It's gotten to the point with the Jones club that they will never give up on him. It's become quasi-religious at this point. For reasons I will never understand.
They must have felt he could build on that. Hasn't happened. May not ever happen. I would plan accordingly, meaning keep an eye on the QB position via all avenues, as I have stated 100 times now.
I am not dug in at all on Jones which is weird for this place. I am more than willing to move on, I would have been willing to move on even if he was playing this season like last, I even said exactly that when he signed the contract.
I just can't listen to people say he sucked last year.
They must have felt he could build on that. Hasn't happened. May not ever happen. I would plan accordingly, meaning keep an eye on the QB position via all avenues, as I have stated 100 times now.
I am not dug in at all on Jones which is weird for this place. I am more than willing to move on, I would have been willing to move on even if he was playing this season like last, I even said exactly that when he signed the contract.
I just can't listen to people say he sucked last year.
I don't think I claimed he sucked last year.
I actually used to defend the heck out of him for the first few years, giving him the benefit of the doubt. Internet is forever. My words are still there.
But he has not elevated his game. He did great in the second half of the Cardinals, but we were scoreless in the first half. Against a bad football team. Jones didn't throw another TD in the other five games, even in garbage time. In the Raiders game, before he got hurt, he was missing throws and the team was scoreless again. Not the 49ers or Cowboys.
Where did I break my silence on Jones? When Taylor came in and the offense didn't look worse.
Totally fine with moving on from Jones. I couldn't care less if they bring in someone else.
What I'm saying is that I think Jones can be a really good QB and that they could keep building up the team with Schoen's eye for talent, and that would be a fine option as well.
It's just weird how quietly happy this place was with Jones in Early January 23. I don't remember many saying he still sucks. Oddly, many of those people didn't post at all after the WC win. Some people disappeared completely.
I am still here taking my lumps, lol.
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and yet, I bet you Sy is ready to move on.
I'd bet Sy is willing to move on if we get Caleb Williams or Drake Maye.
Sy appears to be equally high on Jayden Daniels.
It's just weird how quietly happy this place was with Jones in Early January 23. I don't remember many saying he still sucks. Oddly, many of those people didn't post at all after the WC win. Some people disappeared completely.
I am still here taking my lumps, lol.
There were definitely people on here that still had concerns in January of 23
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wasn't really you I was referring to with the he sucked line. I mean you didn't really give him credit, but ok. I wasn't calling you out there more the board.
It's just weird how quietly happy this place was with Jones in Early January 23. I don't remember many saying he still sucks. Oddly, many of those people didn't post at all after the WC win. Some people disappeared completely.
I am still here taking my lumps, lol.
There were definitely people on here that still had concerns in January of 23
They were not unfounded. The optimism made sense too.
At this point nothing would shock me going forward.
At this point nothing would shock me going forward.
Devito becoming our Romo or Brady would shock me (making reference to Manny's thread)
Then the 2022 season happened, he did everything you guys said he was never going to do.
All it took was 5 shitty games (not just Jones) for you guys to completely go back to Jones sucks.
No interest in Tua, and Herbert hasn't shown much lately. Last I checked Jones has a playoff win, Herbert doesn't. And Jones played similar, or even better, than Herbert did at times in 2022.
Herbert has a lot more talent than Jones, but if we are measuring both careers so far, Jones technically has more to show for it.
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To those who still have faith that Jones can turn it around and don't want to select a QB in this years draft, how do you feel now looking back knowing the Giants passed on Justin Herbert and Tua because of Jones? What if they pass on Maye and Daniels and they go on to becoming great QB's while Jones continues to disappoint?
No interest in Tua, and Herbert hasn't shown much lately. Last I checked Jones has a playoff win, Herbert doesn't. And Jones played similar, or even better, than Herbert did at times in 2022.
Herbert has a lot more talent than Jones, but if we are measuring both careers so far, Jones technically has more to show for it.
Lmaaaooo. Herbert would have to take the next three years off for Jones to match his career TD numbers.
Last year Herbert went 68-4700-25-10. Herbert’s first two year surpass Jones’ 5 year touchdown total.
Blake Bortles had more to show than Jones.
Are we back to the Herbert vs. Jones ‘argument’?
There is no one who watches football who thinks Jones is even in the same stratosphere as Herbert.
It was competent. That's it.
It was no way, shape, or form good enough to defeat teams like the Eagles and Cowboys who continue to toy with Jones, the Giants OL, and targets.
You guys keep blaming the OL and the targets, but not the QB.
Meanwhile, two QBs come in this year for the Giants and there is no dropoff. That's the clue.
It's gotten to the point with the Jones club that they will never give up on him. It's become quasi-religious at this point. For reasons I will never understand.
Jones is a more visually attractive Dave Brown. He looks the part, but performs the same.
If we had drafted the "force multiplier" Herbert to replace Jones and he failed to elevate the team (assuming the status quo of he not elevating SD/LA stayed in place), the very people who post hundreds of times a week about Jones being a terrible QB would be supporting Herbert.
Why? because they liked him coming out of college while Jones was a no star recruit who was never good at any level of football.
And those same posters would parrot the same arguments Jones supporters have made - that he needs better weapons. That the OL is shit, etc. And it would all likely be due to the premise that "their" choice at QB pre-draft that they posted longingly for would need to succeed to prove they were "right". It doesn't get any more deep than that.
They won't admit it - but we all know it is true. You can see in the way Herbert is defended. You can see it in the way Fields is talked about as just being in a bad situation.
-Daniel Jones: 21/27 – 217 yards / 0 TD – 0 INT / 100.2 RAT
Jones also added 41 rushing yards (not including the three kneel downs) just days after nobody knew if he would miss the game because of an ankle injury suffered last week. Mid-week, we were wondering if NYG would sign Brian Lewerke or Jake Fromm to backup Davis Webb. Now we look back and I think this was Jones’ top performance of the season considering the circumstances. We may see better statistical games from him, but he made multiple big time throws, took some of the biggest hits we have seen this year, and still made a huge difference on the ground. Prior to this game, I wrote down a list of things to look for. At the top? “How does Jones impact the game on a bad wheel?” Athletic quarterbacks are all the craze in the League now, everyone wants one. But what happens when they are nicked up? What happens when they age and lose some of their movement capability? Jones rose to the occasion and what he did post-Barkley injury on the touchdown scoring drive cannot go overlooked. 6/7 – 56 yards including two 3rd-down conversions and 25 yards rushing. What he did with what he had is exactly what good quarterbacks do: create more than the sum of parts. Big-time performance for Jones.
All these "great" games extrapolate into sub 200 yards passing per game and 12.75 passing TD's over 17 games....
Why are we magnetized to mediocrity?
Tommy DeVito's recent three game stretch projects to 34 passing TD's over 17 games... That's almost TRIPLE the TD production of those Jones games shared by Ryan.
If we had drafted the "force multiplier" Herbert to replace Jones and he failed to elevate the team (assuming the status quo of he not elevating SD/LA stayed in place), the very people who post hundreds of times a week about Jones being a terrible QB would be supporting Herbert.
Why? because they liked him coming out of college while Jones was a no star recruit who was never good at any level of football.
And those same posters would parrot the same arguments Jones supporters have made - that he needs better weapons. That the OL is shit, etc. And it would all likely be due to the premise that "their" choice at QB pre-draft that they posted longingly for would need to succeed to prove they were "right". It doesn't get any more deep than that.
They won't admit it - but we all know it is true. You can see in the way Herbert is defended. You can see it in the way Fields is talked about as just being in a bad situation.
Justin Herbert throws touchdowns, that’s why he would be defended. He would be defended because he’s light years more talented as a quarterback.
There’s zero things Jones does better as a passer than Herbert.
If we had drafted the "force multiplier" Herbert to replace Jones and he failed to elevate the team (assuming the status quo of he not elevating SD/LA stayed in place), the very people who post hundreds of times a week about Jones being a terrible QB would be supporting Herbert.
Why? because they liked him coming out of college while Jones was a no star recruit who was never good at any level of football.
And those same posters would parrot the same arguments Jones supporters have made - that he needs better weapons. That the OL is shit, etc. And it would all likely be due to the premise that "their" choice at QB pre-draft that they posted longingly for would need to succeed to prove they were "right". It doesn't get any more deep than that.
They won't admit it - but we all know it is true. You can see in the way Herbert is defended. You can see it in the way Fields is talked about as just being in a bad situation.
I so, SO effing agree with this FMIC. It's not even about DJ. It's about A) Over-emphasis by more than a few of one position on a shitty team - And B) It's about Armchair GM's in that group's absolute NEED for being right about who they like or talked up during a draft... lol.
I ask again - does Herbert have a playoff win or not? Has he played on better teams than Jones or not?
Jones has a road playoff win in much worse situations than Herbert has had.
Herbert's QBR in 2022: 60.2
Jones QBR in 2022: 62.9
Herbert is definitely playing better in 2023 than he did in 2022. But the team is 4-7 and going nowhere. He's had plenty of opportunities to win games for them this year and he has failed to do so.
Everyone knows that Herbert is more "talented" than Jones. He has not done anything in his career to back that up yet.
I honestly can’t believe this needs to be said.
I honestly can’t believe this needs to be said.
Yeah that's not the argument we are having, but nice job.
I ask again - does Herbert have a playoff win or not? Has he played on better teams than Jones or not?
Jones has a road playoff win in much worse situations than Herbert has had.
Herbert's QBR in 2022: 60.2
Jones QBR in 2022: 62.9
Herbert is definitely playing better in 2023 than he did in 2022. But the team is 4-7 and going nowhere. He's had plenty of opportunities to win games for them this year and he has failed to do so.
Everyone knows that Herbert is more "talented" than Jones. He has not done anything in his career to back that up yet.
Blake Bortles won two playoff games.
They’ve both only played small sample of playoff game. Besides that one single game what has Jones done that proves he “has more to show” for his career than Herbert?
This gets to the main crux of our differing views on DJ. I would argue that, physically, Jones actually isn't that far behind Herbert in talent - when you consider his legs as well, of course.
It's between the ears where the gap exists. And DJ does not have more to show for his career than Herbert, unless you want to claim that Nick Foles has more to show for his than Dan Marino.
But even by that logic, Mitch Trubisky, Tim Tebow, and Blake Bortles are all in the same rarified air as Daniel Jones, by your argument, and all would supposedly be better than Herbert.
Do you honestly believe that? Or could your pro-Jones bias be coloring your view?
I ask again - what has he done in his career that makes you think he's some stratospherically amazing QB?
They aren’t even remotely comparable. One is a very good to elite QB & the other is an average at best QB.
So I ask again, if Herbert is this amazing QB, why does he have more losses than wins?
And why does Jones not get the same benefit of the doubt in having bad coaching/bad teams?
And you keep acting like TDs happen by accident or are somehow irrelevant to measuring a QB's performance.
If we had drafted the "force multiplier" Herbert to replace Jones and he failed to elevate the team (assuming the status quo of he not elevating SD/LA stayed in place), the very people who post hundreds of times a week about Jones being a terrible QB would be supporting Herbert.
Why? because they liked him coming out of college while Jones was a no star recruit who was never good at any level of football.
And those same posters would parrot the same arguments Jones supporters have made - that he needs better weapons. That the OL is shit, etc. And it would all likely be due to the premise that "their" choice at QB pre-draft that they posted longingly for would need to succeed to prove they were "right". It doesn't get any more deep than that.
They won't admit it - but we all know it is true. You can see in the way Herbert is defended. You can see it in the way Fields is talked about as just being in a bad situation.
What is this, a joke?
Of course Herbert would be defended here. And he should be since he is a much better player at the QB position, and has been since he joined the league. It isn't close.
So I ask again, if Herbert is this amazing QB, why does he have more losses than wins?
And why does Jones not get the same benefit of the doubt in having bad coaching/bad teams?
So you agree Blake Bortles is a better QB than Daniel Jones?
🤣🤣🤣. This is beyond parody at this point.
So I ask again, if Herbert is this amazing QB, why does he have more losses than wins?
And why does Jones not get the same benefit of the doubt in having bad coaching/bad teams?
I have never said that. I have consistently said that you measure teams by wins and losses. In fact, one of the main arguments I've had with Thegratefulhead on here is that his view of DJ (or any QB) is entirely focused on wins/losses, and not on the QB's actual performance. It's the sort of narrow viewpoint that would put Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon into the top 50 QBs of all time.
Why does Jones get your benefit of the doubt but not Trubisky, Bortles, Tebow, etc.?