SCHOEN: Evan got off to a really good camp, had a concussion, missed a couple of weeks, came back, and needs to play better. Evan needs to play better. He knows that. Look forward to getting him back here when he’s healthy, but I think he’d admit there’s some things that he can do better, and we look forward to him continuing to improve...
No, I don’t think so (moving him to guard). I went back and watched the Alabama stuff; the kid can play. We just got to get him to be more consistent. Like I’ve got a lot of confidence in Evan, he’s a hard worker, it’s killing him right now to be out there. He’s missing some valuable reps in year two, but as soon as he’s healthy, he’s scratching and clawing to get back. We are looking forward to getting him back there, but he knows there is some things he can do better and that’s what we expect from him. |
Am I reading too much into this in suggesting that Schoen may think coaching is part of the issue here?
Coaching aside, Schoen sounds like me in "defending" Neal... i.e. how the training camp injury set him back, what he looked like in college, etc. And this is coming from a guy (me) who was arguing against a RT in round one a year ago. Neal didn't look like this in college.
Neal looks like he should be an all-pro RT and has the college tape to back it up.
To me, this rang of Schoen having insecurity about the pick to try to feel better about a potentially colossal mistake.
The counter argument is he may be a good athlete, but not in the areas a tackle needs to be athletic. I think this is what Sy alludes to in his reviews.
What has me confused is again, we're not talking about a crap conference. He played against NFL caliber defensive linemen and linebackers in the SEC. He was a rock out there at LT, RT, and OG. It's why many pundits had him going #1 at one point.
In fact, I wish Jerry would have chimed in a bit more. He also touched on how the beat writers piled onto the Wink news after the Glazer report, by reporting on potential causes to the rift.
To me, this rang of Schoen having insecurity about the pick to try to feel better about a potentially colossal mistake.
bw in dc... I don't recall anyone saying that Evan Neal should not go top 5.
Here is Sy's review (as the #1 OT):
1: Evan Neal – Alabama – 6’7/337
Grade: 87
Summary: Junior entry from Okeechobee, Florida. Three-year starter at three different positions (LG, RT, LT). A 2019 Freshman All American that ended his career as a 2nd Team All American and 1st Team All SEC honoree. Neal, a team captain, is lauded by both the on-field coaches and support staff inside the walls. His attention to detail, intelligence, and work ethic have helped him deliver on his 5-star recruit profile out of high school. The fact he started right away as a true freshman for Nick Saban along the offensive line, a rarity, and progressed each season of his 3-year career while playing 3 different positions speaks volumes about his mental game. The obvious with Neal is the elite physical tools. His size is second to none, his power comes easy and natural, and the explosion within his blocking can put him in a rare tier of offensive line prospects. He did struggle with consistency throughout his career, as he showed low body awareness in several situations. He often oversets, leading to balance and control issues. Defenders were able to shake him off too many times. Neal’s upside is as high as it gets but the constant new-position he dealt with every year may have thrown off some important development. That versatility may help his outlook to some teams but once he is drafted, his true value will come when he settles into a position. Neal can eventually be one of the best linemen in the game.
*Prior to the start of the year, I had nearly no-doubt Neal was going to finish in the 90+ tier. But this is where you have to toss pre-conceived notions out the window when watching the tape. The truth is, Neal did not take a step forward. There are shortcomings within his skill set that arose weekly. The positive? These are all very correctable issues, and we see them corrected all the time. He has some of the same issues that Tristan Wirfs did coming out of Iowa in 2020. Wirfs was my OT1 in that class with a similar grade and is now an All-Pro. Neal can get on that path just as quickly, but I think he needs to settle into a position and remain there for a couple years. That hasn’t been the case since he was a high schooler. NYG would be an ideal destination for him. Insert him into the RT spot week 1 and they could have a top tier OT pair within a year or two. I would be excited to get this kid in blue.
Maybe he can make the switch to guard and be successful as William Roberts was eons ago.
Maybe he can make the switch to guard and be successful as William Roberts was eons ago.
The GM just said no to that.
To me, this rang of Schoen having insecurity about the pick to try to feel better about a potentially colossal mistake.
Bingo
He said he wasn't as high on Neal coming out because he lacked the killer instinct that's present in all of the great O-Lineman. In that draft class, he was highest on Tyler Smith. I followed that up with "Sy really didn't like Tyler Smith, what made you like him?" He said his technique was horrible, but he was nasty and an extreme competitor. He thought that a good coach would be able to teach him technique, but you can't teach the want to.
I'm trying to understand why Schoen said what you referenced. Which is indeed a good observation.
Well, except for the crowd that thinks these pressers tell us nothing... ;)
His issue is just consistency in his technique. He needs reps, and that's the worst thing about this latest injury. I still believe he'll be at worst a passable right tackle in the NFL. I've seen enough of his play this year to see that he can be that. I'd argue that prior to his latest injury, he was that from week 4 on. Still needs improvement, but he showed growth from the early season struggles in weeks 1-3 to weeks 4 and later.
Maybe he can make the switch to guard and be successful as William Roberts was eons ago.
Exactly what I see. This is William Roberts all over again (not exactly of course, but somewhat similar).
Maybe he can make the switch to guard and be successful as William Roberts was eons ago.
It's a BBI myth that Neal has slow feet. He has good tackle feet. It's his balance and technique (and they are related) that has been his issues. But he has shown plenty of reps of getting to his spot and making great blocks against speed outside. If you have slow feet, that's not happening very often.
Really hard not to see a change at OL coach though.
I actually thought his most telling comment was discussing Jones and highlighting the SF game without AT and SB.
In fact, I wish Jerry would have chimed in a bit more. He also touched on how the beat writers piled onto the Wink news after the Glazer report, by reporting on potential causes to the rift.
I heard that, too. It sounded like Biz said Wink does some old school stuff like having meetings run late, hanging out, and the players kind of groan about it….not sure if that’s what he meant or I misheard.
He said he wasn't as high on Neal coming out because he lacked the killer instinct that's present in all of the great O-Lineman. In that draft class, he was highest on Tyler Smith. I followed that up with "Sy really didn't like Tyler Smith, what made you like him?" He said his technique was horrible, but he was nasty and an extreme competitor. He thought that a good coach would be able to teach him technique, but you can't teach the want to.
There could be something to that. Isn’t it a common story of a guy being railroaded into football because of their size, but don’t have a passion for the game and can bust in the pros? Still hoping it’s just coaching though. His outburst to fan criticism was immature but at least shows some pride/desire, but dunno.
There was plenty of ugly tape on Ereck Flowers. And that was pointed out before the draft. I didn't hear those comments with Neal.
To me, when I watch him, he looks like he is thinking way too much and lacks confidence in whatever technique he is being asked to utilize in pass sets.
I'd love if someone could look at what he was sked to do at Bama vs Giants and see the differences are.
Obviously they are on step 2- what has caused the decline and lack of development. Is it coaching? Did he get paid and stop working?
The potential is there and he has all the tools so what is the miss?
There was plenty of ugly tape on Ereck Flowers. And that was pointed out before the draft. I didn't hear those comments with Neal.
Sy has said his issues on his college tape were very correctable. Reading between the lines, Bobby Johnson is being thrown under the bus and more than likely out
At one point early in draft process he was getting listed as overall #1 pick which was too optimistic. Neal got beat often in the SEC but with his pedigree, size and the 'Bama reputation his draft stock held well enough to be a Top 10 pick.
Neal has got to get better. His lack of development killed our season.
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indicate to me he is ill suited to be a tackle at the NFL level.
Maybe he can make the switch to guard and be successful as William Roberts was eons ago.
It's a BBI myth that Neal has slow feet. He has good tackle feet. It's his balance and technique (and they are related) that has been his issues. But he has shown plenty of reps of getting to his spot and making great blocks against speed outside. If you have slow feet, that's not happening very often.
He's too slow in pass protection.
At one point early in draft process he was getting listed as overall #1 pick which was too optimistic. Neal got beat often in the SEC but with his pedigree, size and the 'Bama reputation his draft stock held well enough to be a Top 10 pick.
Neal has got to get better. His lack of development killed our season.
He was a major reason why the season went downhill, but so were both guard spots. At one point, we had an OL out there that had something like 10 NFL starts between all five players.
Schoen's comments notwithstanding, I think the Giants will eventually move him to guard at some point after this season.
At one point early in draft process he was getting listed as overall #1 pick which was too optimistic. Neal got beat often in the SEC but with his pedigree, size and the 'Bama reputation his draft stock held well enough to be a Top 10 pick.
Neal has got to get better. His lack of development killed our season.
This is definitely an overstatement. The bigger problem with the OL was the missed games with Thomas, which resulted in terrible LT play in those games, and that did result in the first DJ injury. And the biggest problem on this OL has been the poor OG play, at both spots. Bredeson has been worse than Neal, so has McKethan. Neal's play has been the third worst issue with the line out of these factors.
And again, he improved over the course of the season. Not to where we'd like him to be yet, but he was playing what I would term as average-level tackle play since week 4. Which is better than terrible. He still has time, hopefully he will be back on the field to get some much-needed reps sooner rather than later.
He looks like a different dude - completely different. If he were in this draft class coming up and I was using the college tape again - it would be Neal in the discussion for OT1 (and there are two really good ones here)
The balance problem was worrisome - but it got worse, not better. His technique and bend are so different, too.
He looks like a different dude - completely different. If he were in this draft class coming up and I was using the college tape again - it would be Neal in the discussion for OT1 (and there are two really good ones here)
The balance problem was worrisome - but it got worse, not better. His technique and bend are so different, too.
So what the heck is going on?
Sounds like you and Schoen had the same thought and simply take another look.
I kind of took it as him trying to improve on his player evaluation skills. Neal has been struggling, maybe he missed something in the eval to look for in the future? Just my opinion.
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of him because of it. He had good QB play at Alabama and they masked some of those sins. He has to speed up out of his stance...a lot.
At one point early in draft process he was getting listed as overall #1 pick which was too optimistic. Neal got beat often in the SEC but with his pedigree, size and the 'Bama reputation his draft stock held well enough to be a Top 10 pick.
Neal has got to get better. His lack of development killed our season.
He was a major reason why the season went downhill, but so were both guard spots. At one point, we had an OL out there that had something like 10 NFL starts between all five players.
It was a bit shocking to see how unprepared the OL was for the season. The season was over before it started mostly because of them. Put aside the Thomas injury for a second, they have been an NFL joke.
Not sure what the hell this coaching staff is doing in getting them prepared because they aren't.
His injuries are handcuffing the FO in improving this roster.
He touches on the injuries, but that's not the point.
This is as clear an indication as any, to me, that we are making a change at OL coach. You give up on your position coach sooner than you do your blue-chip, top-10 pick's career as a tackle.
“Who can we bring in that can maybe help us win a couple of games while Daniel gets healthy, or maybe Daniel will be ready Week 1.”
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I went back and watched Neal tape from Alabama a few weeks ago
He looks like a different dude - completely different. If he were in this draft class coming up and I was using the college tape again - it would be Neal in the discussion for OT1 (and there are two really good ones here)
The balance problem was worrisome - but it got worse, not better. His technique and bend are so different, too.
So what the heck is going on?
Sounds like you and Schoen had the same thought and simply take another look.
I think there is a psychology component here that will go deeper than us watching tape. Neal is tripping trying to tie his shoes. I think he had some early struggles and did not respond to adversity like a player needs to.
Don't think there's much else to read into this.
“Who can we bring in that can maybe help us win a couple of games while Daniel gets healthy, or maybe Daniel will be ready Week 1.”
Yet that is offset by him later saying they would consider taking a QB in the first round. You don't take a QB in the first round for insurance purposes.
He looks like a different dude - completely different. If he were in this draft class coming up and I was using the college tape again - it would be Neal in the discussion for OT1 (and there are two really good ones here)
The balance problem was worrisome - but it got worse, not better. His technique and bend are so different, too.
Agreed. Had enough good high-profiled games in the SEC, and with his size, to project into first half of Rd 1 and then progress from there.
Now he seems like a guy who plays like an early Day 3 pick who has a lot to development ahead of him.
Don't think there's much else to read into this.
I don't know. Seems like what Sy is saying... there is a disconnect/change between him at Alabama and him in the NFL.
The only thing I can point to is coaching, I'm not thrilled with Bobby Thompson and as much as we got excited over him working out with Willie Anderson in the offseason, maybe that wasn't the right fit.
Honestly if I were him, I'd stay glued to Andrew Thomas after the season was over and would do everything he does.
The team wasn't ready for the start of the season.
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Is that Evan needs to play better and he thinks he will, and at tackle.
Don't think there's much else to read into this.
I don't know. Seems like what Sy is saying... there is a disconnect/change between him at Alabama and him in the NFL.
Totally agreed. I don't think I saw a single mock without Neal top 10 and usually top 5. I saw one the other day where they had Thibs number 1 and Neal 2.
He doesn't look like the same player.