First 10 selections:
(1) Chicago (from Carolina): Caleb Williams, QB
(2) Arizona: Marvin Harrison, Jr., WR
(3) New England: Drake Maye, QB
(4) Chicago: Joe Alt, OT
(5) Washington: Olu Fashanu, OT
(6) Giants: Malik Nabers, WR
(7) Tampa Bay: Jayden Daniels, QB
(8) Jets: Brock Bowers, TE
(9) L.A. Chargers: J.C. Latham, OT
(10) Tennessee: Dallas Turner, EDGE
I think the odds of the Giants passing on Jayden Daniels are ZERO. I wouldn't cry, however, taking Malik Nabers. The Giants have nothing on their roster that can touch him. And the Giants have no pass rushing complement to Kayvon Thibodeaux, so I would have no problem taking either Dallas Turner or Laiatu Latu.
No Nix or Penix in first round.
Brugler has consistently not been that high on those 2 QB’s.
Joe Burrow went to a Super Bowl in his second year?
Jets going TE is such a Jets move.
Please, for the love of God, watch other teams in the NFL.
I'd be thrilled with either of the 3. Those 3 are probably 3 of my favorite players in the draft, other than Harrison.
you're saying that if you draft the right QB even if you have a trash OL, you can go to the Super Bowl in 2 years.
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When $40 Million is committed to Daniel Jones next season? Makes zero sense. And then when Daniels fails epically behind a trash O-line, Schoen and Dabboll fall on the sword. You guys will never learn. You don't draft a new QB until you fix the O-line, period. Even Burrow couldn't overcome the crap O-line he plays behind. You think Daniels is going to do it?
Please, for the love of God, watch other teams in the NFL.
Not going to happen. You want the Giants to continue to fail? Drafting Daniels behind one of the worst O-lines in football will make that happen. Take a look at Carolina. How did that can't miss prospect Yound work out?
Hyatt is still developing. He is much better now than earlier in the season.
Yea yea yea i hear you but the ol needs to be fixed regardless of what we do.
Milroe is a bigger faster Hurts and it isn't a stretch to think with a few years experience Nabers and Hyatt are in Brown and Smith's league. Nabers is already a legit game changer.
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When $40 Million is committed to Daniel Jones next season? Makes zero sense. And then when Daniels fails epically behind a trash O-line, Schoen and Dabboll fall on the sword. You guys will never learn. You don't draft a new QB until you fix the O-line, period. Even Burrow couldn't overcome the crap O-line he plays behind. You think Daniels is going to do it?
you're saying that if you draft the right QB even if you have a trash OL, you can go to the Super Bowl in 2 years.
And how do the Bengals look this year? And did they win that SB? Burrow got hurt playing behind his trash O-line.
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In comment 16306962 Eightshamrocks said:
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When $40 Million is committed to Daniel Jones next season? Makes zero sense. And then when Daniels fails epically behind a trash O-line, Schoen and Dabboll fall on the sword. You guys will never learn. You don't draft a new QB until you fix the O-line, period. Even Burrow couldn't overcome the crap O-line he plays behind. You think Daniels is going to do it?
Please, for the love of God, watch other teams in the NFL.
Not going to happen. You want the Giants to continue to fail? Drafting Daniels behind one of the worst O-lines in football will make that happen. Take a look at Carolina. How did that can't miss prospect Yound work out?
What about Cj Stroud?
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In comment 16306967 jinkies said:
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In comment 16306962 Eightshamrocks said:
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When $40 Million is committed to Daniel Jones next season? Makes zero sense. And then when Daniels fails epically behind a trash O-line, Schoen and Dabboll fall on the sword. You guys will never learn. You don't draft a new QB until you fix the O-line, period. Even Burrow couldn't overcome the crap O-line he plays behind. You think Daniels is going to do it?
Please, for the love of God, watch other teams in the NFL.
Not going to happen. You want the Giants to continue to fail? Drafting Daniels behind one of the worst O-lines in football will make that happen. Take a look at Carolina. How did that can't miss prospect Yound work out?
What about Cj Stroud?
The only guy out of dozens. Not very good odds.
I suspect you think Daniel Jones is a good quarterback in a bad situation.
That likely influences your views.
What about Cj Stroud?
The only guy out of dozens. Not very good odds.
Lay off the Whiskey, Pat
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When $40 Million is committed to Daniel Jones next season? Makes zero sense. And then when Daniels fails epically behind a trash O-line, Schoen and Dabboll fall on the sword. You guys will never learn. You don't draft a new QB until you fix the O-line, period. Even Burrow couldn't overcome the crap O-line he plays behind. You think Daniels is going to do it?
I suspect you think Daniel Jones is a good quarterback in a bad situation.
That likely influences your views.
I think Jones is a good QB, yes. Not a great one, a good one. I don't believe on taking a chance on a new QB until the Giants fix their roster issues. That is my position. When you a take a QB before fixing your roster, you end up looking like the Panthers more often than not. Stroud and the Texans are the exception, not the rule.
The same Joe Burrow that got the Bengals to the SB with a worse OLine than this year?
The flip side is if one doesn't think Jones is the answer and/or has too many health questions now, this may be the team's best shot at replacing him given their draft position, extra 2nd round pick, and the QBs who are available.
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In comment 16306962 Eightshamrocks said:
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When $40 Million is committed to Daniel Jones next season? Makes zero sense. And then when Daniels fails epically behind a trash O-line, Schoen and Dabboll fall on the sword. You guys will never learn. You don't draft a new QB until you fix the O-line, period. Even Burrow couldn't overcome the crap O-line he plays behind. You think Daniels is going to do it?
I suspect you think Daniel Jones is a good quarterback in a bad situation.
That likely influences your views.
I think Jones is a good QB, yes. Not a great one, a good one. I don't believe on taking a chance on a new QB until the Giants fix their roster issues. That is my position. When you a take a QB before fixing your roster, you end up looking like the Panthers more often than not. Stroud and the Texans are the exception, not the rule.
Too bad the Giants only have one draft pick and no free agency this year
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In comment 16306962 Eightshamrocks said:
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When $40 Million is committed to Daniel Jones next season? Makes zero sense. And then when Daniels fails epically behind a trash O-line, Schoen and Dabboll fall on the sword. You guys will never learn. You don't draft a new QB until you fix the O-line, period. Even Burrow couldn't overcome the crap O-line he plays behind. You think Daniels is going to do it?
you're saying that if you draft the right QB even if you have a trash OL, you can go to the Super Bowl in 2 years.
And how do the Bengals look this year? And did they win that SB? Burrow got hurt playing behind his trash O-line.
Lol reasonably, you get to championship games and SBs...you got there, whether you win or not comes down to a few plays. I certainly wouldn't take the stance of "they lost" and cross my arms as an argument. Getting the QB right raises the entire floor of the time. And its possible to get the QB right while making the OLine better.
Injuries can happen on any given play. What are we talking about here? Wasn't it a wrist while he fell to the ground? Ya know, something that happens every game?
The flip side is if one doesn't think Jones is the answer and/or has too many health questions now, this may be the team's best shot at replacing him given their draft position, extra 2nd round pick, and the QBs who are available.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No Nix or Penix in first round.
Brugler has consistently not been that high on those 2 QB’s.
This is not his rankings; this is based on what he thinks the teams will do:
The picks don’t reflect my personal rankings or what I would do, but rather this projection strictly goes by what I think teams would do if the draft was tomorrow.
Amazing how some still do not understand the draft or the big picture.
Amazing how some still do not understand the draft or the big picture.
This is a fair point.
I could be wrong but for some reason I envision Daniels being the guy who "shoots" up draft boards (atleast through the media) through his off season work outs and throwing in shorts. Ala Anthony Richardson.
Amazing how some still do not understand the draft or the big picture.
Big picture is we need players - lots of holes to fill, AND we need a QB. Trade back, accumulate assets, and pick a QB you like later in round one or two (if the QB’s you value at the top 10 are gone, assuming we have a top 10 draft slot).
Amazing how some still do not understand the draft or the big picture.
+1
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I'd be looking at Turner and the WRs if their QB target is gone.
Amazing how some still do not understand the draft or the big picture.
Big picture is we need players - lots of holes to fill, AND we need a QB. Trade back, accumulate assets, and pick a QB you like later in round one or two (if the QB’s you value at the top 10 are gone, assuming we have a top 10 draft slot).
Viable plan, you see the big picture.
I hear what you're saying, but Malik Nabers is a legit #1 NFL Team wide receiver, and I don't think Joe Schoen would pick this guy because he had Daniel Jones in mind. I love Marvin Harrison, Jr., but Malik Nabers is much more than a consolation prize for missing out on Harrison. In any event, as I said before, I believe Joe Schoen would snag Jayden Daniels in a heart-beat if the draft unfolded the way Dane Bugler has it.
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I'd be looking at Turner and the WRs if their QB target is gone.
Amazing how some still do not understand the draft or the big picture.
This is a fair point.
I could be wrong but for some reason I envision Daniels being the guy who "shoots" up draft boards (atleast through the media) through his off season work outs and throwing in shorts. Ala Anthony Richardson.
Richardson is an athlete who plays QB.
Daniels is an athletic QB.
I've seen enough of Daniels throwing in full pads in the SEC to see he's much better at playing QB than Richardson.
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Oy vey . I guess this means DeVito is a future HOF'er..lol..
And his 2022 season, winning a road playoff was a figment of our imaginations? This os where the Jobes haters go too far. You can argue he needs to be replaced sure, but to label him as a bust is a joke.
BUST
lots of QBs won a playoff game once:
Bortles
Osweiler
Trubisky
Tebow
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When $40 Million is committed to Daniel Jones next season? Makes zero sense. And then when Daniels fails epically behind a trash O-line, Schoen and Dabboll fall on the sword. You guys will never learn. You don't draft a new QB until you fix the O-line, period. Even Burrow couldn't overcome the crap O-line he plays behind. You think Daniels is going to do it?
I suspect you think Daniel Jones is a good quarterback in a bad situation.
That likely influences your views.
I think Jones is a good QB in a bad situation. That said, if the Giants think a QB available to them in the draft has the potential to be great, you have to get him. Add to that, the injuries to Jones? They need to move on from him and that contract in '25.
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Oy vey . I guess this means DeVito is a future HOF'er..lol..
And his 2022 season, winning a road playoff was a figment of our imaginations? This os where the Jobes haters go too far. You can argue he needs to be replaced sure, but to label him as a bust is a joke.
Blake Bortles once threw for 30 touchdowns and won two playoff games, and went head to head with Tom Brady in the AFC championship game. Is he not a bust?
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In comment 16307022 averagejoe said:
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Oy vey . I guess this means DeVito is a future HOF'er..lol..
And his 2022 season, winning a road playoff was a figment of our imaginations? This os where the Jobes haters go too far. You can argue he needs to be replaced sure, but to label him as a bust is a joke.
BUST
lots of QBs won a playoff game once:
Bortles
Osweiler
Trubisky
Tebow
Quote:
Oy vey . I guess this means DeVito is a future HOF'er..lol..
And his 2022 season, winning a road playoff was a figment of our imaginations? This os where the Jobes haters go too far. You can argue he needs to be replaced sure, but to label him as a bust is a joke.
2022 is a figment of your imagination. A team that squeaked by with 9 wins and beat a vastly overrated team with zero production from our QB before getting blown out for a third time by the Eagles.
Let it go man
You are missing something here. Whether they take "WR2" or "QB3" is a separate issue to Jones. The scholarship comment is ignorant. The Giants have an out after next season where they can get out of the contract without getting killed financially. Even if Jones is not the long-term answer, you don't pass on a Nabers if you don't think Daniels is a franchise QB.
I am a big fan of both, but you don't shop hungry, desperate for a position. If they view Nabers as an all-pro and aren't nearly as high on Daniels, you don't pass on Nabers (who would be the #1 WR in most drafts). And I say this as someone who would take Daniels over Nabers if the draft worked out like that.
They do not need to pick QB early. He can go in the 2nd or even 3rd. Look what Daboll is able to do with a UDFA. Never force picks. Don't draft position, but the individual.
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In comment 16307030 Eightshamrocks said:
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In comment 16307022 averagejoe said:
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Oy vey . I guess this means DeVito is a future HOF'er..lol..
And his 2022 season, winning a road playoff was a figment of our imaginations? This os where the Jobes haters go too far. You can argue he needs to be replaced sure, but to label him as a bust is a joke.
BUST
lots of QBs won a playoff game once:
Bortles
Osweiler
Trubisky
Tebow
And Jones is berrer than all of them. Let me explain to you what a bust looks like. Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russel, Dwayne Haskins, etc. Not Daniel Jones.
In 2023 based on his performance on the field Daniel Jones was a bottom three QB in the league. QBs who play that poorly in year 5 aren't NFL starting QBs.
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In comment 16307022 averagejoe said:
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Oy vey . I guess this means DeVito is a future HOF'er..lol..
And his 2022 season, winning a road playoff was a figment of our imaginations? This os where the Jobes haters go too far. You can argue he needs to be replaced sure, but to label him as a bust is a joke.
2022 is a figment of your imagination. A team that squeaked by with 9 wins and beat a vastly overrated team with zero production from our QB before getting blown out for a third time by the Eagles.
Let it go man
Zero production? 22 total TD's and over 800 yards rushing is zero production? And only 5 picks? Geeze Louise
Amazing how some still do not understand the draft or the big picture.
Yeah, Turner is the one to keep an eye out for.
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In comment 16307030 Eightshamrocks said:
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In comment 16307022 averagejoe said:
Quote:
Oy vey . I guess this means DeVito is a future HOF'er..lol..
And his 2022 season, winning a road playoff was a figment of our imaginations? This os where the Jobes haters go too far. You can argue he needs to be replaced sure, but to label him as a bust is a joke.
2022 is a figment of your imagination. A team that squeaked by with 9 wins and beat a vastly overrated team with zero production from our QB before getting blown out for a third time by the Eagles.
Let it go man
Zero production? 22 total TD's and over 800 yards rushing is zero production? And only 5 picks? Geeze Louise
Bottom of the league in passing yards, passing TD's and points scored for the last 4 years is really impressive
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Win enough games to miss out on the top 2 QBs and top WR, and take WR2 instead of QB3 because Jones is on scholarship and "needs weapons".
You are missing something here. Whether they take "WR2" or "QB3" is a separate issue to Jones. The scholarship comment is ignorant. The Giants have an out after next season where they can get out of the contract without getting killed financially. Even if Jones is not the long-term answer, you don't pass on a Nabers if you don't think Daniels is a franchise QB.
I am a big fan of both, but you don't shop hungry, desperate for a position. If they view Nabers as an all-pro and aren't nearly as high on Daniels, you don't pass on Nabers (who would be the #1 WR in most drafts). And I say this as someone who would take Daniels over Nabers if the draft worked out like that.
I don't think I'm missing anything, I'm starting to come around to the belief that the Giants simply don't (and won't) want to move on from Jones. It's just my opinion, but I think there's a sense of relief in the organization that they are now almost certain to miss out on the top 2 QBs. Now they can justify doing virtually anything, don't have to go through the awkwardness of having an elite QB prospect or answer questions about why they passed on the top 2.
Maybe that's just me being pessimistic, and I'm prepared to be surprised, but I'd be stunned if Jones (if healthy) didn't enter camp as QB1 with either a mid-round rookie or veteran there with no chance to unseat him as starter.
Amazing how some still do not understand the draft or the big picture.
This. As much as I know there needs to be a significant QB upgrade, I have no interest in going down the Jones path again. Don't reach or force a QB pick.
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In comment 16307018 rsjem1979 said:
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Win enough games to miss out on the top 2 QBs and top WR, and take WR2 instead of QB3 because Jones is on scholarship and "needs weapons".
You are missing something here. Whether they take "WR2" or "QB3" is a separate issue to Jones. The scholarship comment is ignorant. The Giants have an out after next season where they can get out of the contract without getting killed financially. Even if Jones is not the long-term answer, you don't pass on a Nabers if you don't think Daniels is a franchise QB.
I am a big fan of both, but you don't shop hungry, desperate for a position. If they view Nabers as an all-pro and aren't nearly as high on Daniels, you don't pass on Nabers (who would be the #1 WR in most drafts). And I say this as someone who would take Daniels over Nabers if the draft worked out like that.
I don't think I'm missing anything, I'm starting to come around to the belief that the Giants simply don't (and won't) want to move on from Jones. It's just my opinion, but I think there's a sense of relief in the organization that they are now almost certain to miss out on the top 2 QBs. Now they can justify doing virtually anything, don't have to go through the awkwardness of having an elite QB prospect or answer questions about why they passed on the top 2.
Maybe that's just me being pessimistic, and I'm prepared to be surprised, but I'd be stunned if Jones (if healthy) didn't enter camp as QB1 with either a mid-round rookie or veteran there with no chance to unseat him as starter.
I agree, I think they were looking for any excuse to not have to take a QB and they got it. Now they can go with Jones again next year and not have to deal with the questions about why they gave him a huge contract if they didn't think he was good enough to last over a season. I just hope next season when he shows FOR THE SIXTH TIME what he is, they don't continue clinging to the mistake.
I'm still decently high on Neal, but that was a miss.
Taking BPA in the top 10 is absolutely what needs to happen. If Nabers or Odunze fits the bill, take them.
Do you have any evidence of any team ever adhering to that strategy?
He used to call him Daball. Tells you all you need to know about how closely he follows the NFL and the Giants.
Eightshamrocks is a troll, not a legit poster.
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He used to call him Daball. Tells you all you need to know about how closely he follows the NFL and the Giants.
Eightshamrocks is a troll, not a legit poster.
It's called a typo. I'm not a troll.
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In comment 16307022 averagejoe said:
Quote:
Oy vey . I guess this means DeVito is a future HOF'er..lol..
And his 2022 season, winning a road playoff was a figment of our imaginations? This os where the Jobes haters go too far. You can argue he needs to be replaced sure, but to label him as a bust is a joke.
2022 is a figment of your imagination. A team that squeaked by with 9 wins and beat a vastly overrated team with zero production from our QB before getting blown out for a third time by the Eagles.
Let it go man
I wouldn’t go pissing on Daniel Jones’ 2022 season. And he had little if anything to do with Philly wiping the floor with the Giants in the playoffs. That miserable game happened because they had better WRs, better TEs, better offensive line, better EDGE pass rushers, better LBers and a better secondary.
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Oy vey . I guess this means DeVito is a future HOF'er..lol..
And his 2022 season, winning a road playoff was a figment of our imaginations? This os where the Jobes haters go too far. You can argue he needs to be replaced sure, but to label him as a bust is a joke.
Daniel Jones = keep him he is a good QB because he won a road playoff game.
Joe Burrow = wasted pick because he lost in the superbowl in his second year.
That is brilliance.
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In comment 16306972 Greg from LI said:
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.
He used to call him Daball. Tells you all you need to know about how closely he follows the NFL and the Giants.
Eightshamrocks is a troll, not a legit poster.
It's called a typo. I'm not a troll.
You have been typing his name wrong for at least two weeks now. You were called out on it yesterday and now you are typing it differently, but still wrong.
I didn't imagine that.
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In comment 16307018 rsjem1979 said:
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Win enough games to miss out on the top 2 QBs and top WR, and take WR2 instead of QB3 because Jones is on scholarship and "needs weapons".
You are missing something here. Whether they take "WR2" or "QB3" is a separate issue to Jones. The scholarship comment is ignorant. The Giants have an out after next season where they can get out of the contract without getting killed financially. Even if Jones is not the long-term answer, you don't pass on a Nabers if you don't think Daniels is a franchise QB.
I am a big fan of both, but you don't shop hungry, desperate for a position. If they view Nabers as an all-pro and aren't nearly as high on Daniels, you don't pass on Nabers (who would be the #1 WR in most drafts). And I say this as someone who would take Daniels over Nabers if the draft worked out like that.
I don't think I'm missing anything, I'm starting to come around to the belief that the Giants simply don't (and won't) want to move on from Jones. It's just my opinion, but I think there's a sense of relief in the organization that they are now almost certain to miss out on the top 2 QBs. Now they can justify doing virtually anything, don't have to go through the awkwardness of having an elite QB prospect or answer questions about why they passed on the top 2.
Maybe that's just me being pessimistic, and I'm prepared to be surprised, but I'd be stunned if Jones (if healthy) didn't enter camp as QB1 with either a mid-round rookie or veteran there with no chance to unseat him as starter.
Jones will be on the Giants next year. They don't save anything by cutting him. Your view that they are married to Jones beyond that does not jive with the out Schoen has with the contract after two years. I think they like what they saw last year of Jones, but still didn't want to fully commit to him. Obviously, this year has not been a good year performance wise or injury wise.
If they are in a position to draft a QB they think is a franchise QB, they would be fools to pass on him. Similarly, if they draft a QB just for the sake of drafting a QB, they'd be fools.
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In comment 16307017 JonC said:
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I'd be looking at Turner and the WRs if their QB target is gone.
Amazing how some still do not understand the draft or the big picture.
This is a fair point.
I could be wrong but for some reason I envision Daniels being the guy who "shoots" up draft boards (atleast through the media) through his off season work outs and throwing in shorts. Ala Anthony Richardson.
Richardson is an athlete who plays QB.
Daniels is an athletic QB.
I've seen enough of Daniels throwing in full pads in the SEC to see he's much better at playing QB than Richardson.
I wasn't comparing the players, just the "rise" they see post season.
I’m not sure I would go quite as far as you, but I’ve watched a lot of Odunze and he is an outright beast. Have no problem whatsoever if he ends up in Blue, preferably in a trade down where we amass some more draft capital.
Dallas Turner
Emeka Egbuka
Cooper Beebe
Burrow has been to two AFC CGs, a SB, and was averaging 35 TD passes the last two years. Those aren't examples of Burrow overcoming a weak OL?
Why can't a team fix the OL and upgrade the QB position simultaneously?
DJ’s had bad OL + bad skills his entire career. No QB is going to overcome that.
Hell, Jalen Hurts looked like garbage until he got Smith and Brown - even with a solid OL.
I still think Mayer fits the Giants profile. He would have to get by NE at 3 for Schoen to be able to move up for him though.
As you've stated, lots of time to go yet!
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In comment 16307022 averagejoe said:
Quote:
Oy vey . I guess this means DeVito is a future HOF'er..lol..
And his 2022 season, winning a road playoff was a figment of our imaginations? This os where the Jobes haters go too far. You can argue he needs to be replaced sure, but to label him as a bust is a joke.
Daniel Jones = keep him he is a good QB because he won a road playoff game.
Joe Burrow = wasted pick because he lost in the superbowl in his second year.
That is brilliance.
I know a number of FL St. and Miami fans, who all laughed and scoffed at Richardson being a high pick. I told them he would. 6'4", 245 lbs, tons of speed, big arm. GMs will fall in love with his tools.
Daniels has the tools, plus he has put it together on the field, unlike Richardson in college. Only thing he doesn't have is the frame of Richardson. He's my favorite QB in this draft, and I'd be surprised if he were available at #6.
I didn't imagine that.
The offense struggled almost the entire season, again having issues scoring. The started 7-2, lost four games in a row, and saved their season with Thibodeaux destroyed the Commanders.
Jones went off on the Colts in the regular season and the Vikings in the playoffs. He wasn't competitive in either game against the Eagles late in the season.
What Daboll and Kafka did was stabilize Jones. He stopped turning the ball over. He was functional, with a simplistic offense. It's not like he was playing great football other than the playoff game. They basically gave him the 4-year contract on the hope that the playoff game wasn't a mirage.
This year, he won one game, against the Cardinals, where the offense didn't score a single point in the first half. The other games he started the offense didn't score in the first half. That's absurd.
I still think Mayer fits the Giants profile. He would have to get by NE at 3 for Schoen to be able to move up for him though.
As you've stated, lots of time to go yet!
I actually think if Bill stays, they’re going to take Daniels.
Jones will be on the Giants next year. They don't save anything by cutting him. Your view that they are married to Jones beyond that does not jive with the out Schoen has with the contract after two years. I think they like what they saw last year of Jones, but still didn't want to fully commit to him. Obviously, this year has not been a good year performance wise or injury wise.
If they are in a position to draft a QB they think is a franchise QB, they would be fools to pass on him. Similarly, if they draft a QB just for the sake of drafting a QB, they'd be fools.
Just because there is an out doesn't mean they'll use it, and I don't believe outside of the top-2 there will be any appetite at the very top of the organization (as Ranaan strongly suggested) to draft a QB in the 1st round whether he's a potential franchise QB or not.
So, a hypothetical:
The 2024 Giants with Daniel Jones as their QB win 7-8 games and are reasonably competitive. They play (as Mara says) "meaningful games in December" but narrowly miss the last playoff spot in the NFC. Jones has a decent season, something like 2022 statistically.
Any chance they don't bring him back in 2025?
Nabers in the top 10 + trading up from round 2 for a QB later in the first would be A+++ for me. Daniels, Nix, McCarthy all interesting.
Aside from a light frame, which he can clearly add 10+ more pounds, there is NOTHING skill wise to keep Daniels from being the top selection.
I don't know how you can watch any five games he played this year and not see it. He's electric. And because of his acceleration and release/mechanics, he might be the best two-way QB prospect I have ever seen.
He is. But so is his teammate Brian Thomas, Jr. That guy may be the second coming of TO. He's a monster.
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wait until after he tests through the roof at the combine. There will be whispers about him going #1 overall (not that I think he should but we will hear them).
Aside from a light frame, which he can clearly add 10+ more pounds, there is NOTHING skill wise to keep Daniels from being the top selection.
I don't know how you can watch any five games he played this year and not see it. He's electric. And because of his acceleration and release/mechanics, he might be the best two-way QB prospect I have ever seen.
I am behind on watching LSU games this season. Work et al are fookin killing me and free time.
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He is. But so is his teammate Brian Thomas, Jr. That guy may be the second coming of TO. He's a monster.
Yeah, I think MHJ, Nabers, Odunze, Keon Coleman and Brian Thomas Jr. are all top-20 players.
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wait until after he tests through the roof at the combine. There will be whispers about him going #1 overall (not that I think he should but we will hear them).
Aside from a light frame, which he can clearly add 10+ more pounds, there is NOTHING skill wise to keep Daniels from being the top selection.
I don't know how you can watch any five games he played this year and not see it. He's electric. And because of his acceleration and release/mechanics, he might be the best two-way QB prospect I have ever seen.
I feel like I am watching Lamar Jackson with better throwing skills when I watch Daniels. Just an amazing player. My favorite player in the draft. I don't see how his skills don't translate to the NFL. The only concerns as you alluded to are the frame. If he could add some bulk without losing explosiveness, the sky is the limit with him
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In comment 16307124 Dave on the UWS said:
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wait until after he tests through the roof at the combine. There will be whispers about him going #1 overall (not that I think he should but we will hear them).
Aside from a light frame, which he can clearly add 10+ more pounds, there is NOTHING skill wise to keep Daniels from being the top selection.
I don't know how you can watch any five games he played this year and not see it. He's electric. And because of his acceleration and release/mechanics, he might be the best two-way QB prospect I have ever seen.
I am behind on watching LSU games this season. Work et al are fookin killing me and free time.
Pop in the FL game first. 600 yards against an SEC defense. Ran for 85 yard and 51 yard TDs if I recall correctly. Just an unreal game.
I do have a few questions about him. And I don’t know if they can be answered by watching games because outside 2 teams - the SEC is kind of down this year and Daniels didn’t play 1 of them.
1. Is he a better runner than thrower? I know people like his release and his arm strength. But in the NFL - you still have to be able to wing it.
2. Can he do it constantly from the pocket with accuracy? The scramble plays are fun and exciting, but again - he will be facing tougher competition.
3. How does he react to adversity. We all know when things go well - QBs can be exciting. But if he is hit and sacked constantly - can he maintain the high level of play.
I honestly don’t know cause I haven’t seen a ton from him. He has amazing WRs and a great system. Which he may not have next year.
Just thinking out loud here.
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2022 is a figment of our imagination? You mean the season where everyone was laughing at the team before it started and said the Giants would absolutely suck, they'd move on from Jones, and then everyone all of a sudden was loving the playoff ride?
I didn't imagine that.
The offense struggled almost the entire season, again having issues scoring. The started 7-2, lost four games in a row, and saved their season with Thibodeaux destroyed the Commanders.
Jones went off on the Colts in the regular season and the Vikings in the playoffs. He wasn't competitive in either game against the Eagles late in the season.
What Daboll and Kafka did was stabilize Jones. He stopped turning the ball over. He was functional, with a simplistic offense. It's not like he was playing great football other than the playoff game. They basically gave him the 4-year contract on the hope that the playoff game wasn't a mirage.
This year, he won one game, against the Cardinals, where the offense didn't score a single point in the first half. The other games he started the offense didn't score in the first half. That's absurd.
I am not going to defend Jones's play this season-it was poor. However, it certainly didn't help him to have Thomas go down in the 1st game and Barkley to go down in the last play of the game in the Cardinals comeback. Jones has had poor luck ever since he's been in the league. I think he deserves one last shot-a shot that he will get next season. If he fails again, obviously he's gone.
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In comment 16307124 Dave on the UWS said:
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wait until after he tests through the roof at the combine. There will be whispers about him going #1 overall (not that I think he should but we will hear them).
Aside from a light frame, which he can clearly add 10+ more pounds, there is NOTHING skill wise to keep Daniels from being the top selection.
I don't know how you can watch any five games he played this year and not see it. He's electric. And because of his acceleration and release/mechanics, he might be the best two-way QB prospect I have ever seen.
I feel like I am watching Lamar Jackson with better throwing skills when I watch Daniels. Just an amazing player. My favorite player in the draft. I don't see how his skills don't translate to the NFL. The only concerns as you alluded to are the frame. If he could add some bulk without losing explosiveness, the sky is the limit with him
There have been numerous Lamars who have come into the league. They all failed. There's only one Lamar.
He wasn't playing in a normal system. Once they opened it up we saw what Jones is.
So the logic is that highly ranked Evan Neal can be evaluated in way under 2 full seasons of play but overdraft Daniel Jones needs more time after 5 seasons.
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In comment 16307141 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16307124 Dave on the UWS said:
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wait until after he tests through the roof at the combine. There will be whispers about him going #1 overall (not that I think he should but we will hear them).
Aside from a light frame, which he can clearly add 10+ more pounds, there is NOTHING skill wise to keep Daniels from being the top selection.
I don't know how you can watch any five games he played this year and not see it. He's electric. And because of his acceleration and release/mechanics, he might be the best two-way QB prospect I have ever seen.
I feel like I am watching Lamar Jackson with better throwing skills when I watch Daniels. Just an amazing player. My favorite player in the draft. I don't see how his skills don't translate to the NFL. The only concerns as you alluded to are the frame. If he could add some bulk without losing explosiveness, the sky is the limit with him
There have been numerous Lamars who have come into the league. They all failed. There's only one Lamar.
Such as?
What would Daboll have to say about this? He’s going into his make or break 3rd season with Jones, who may not even be able to play the first half of the season, and some mediocre vet backup as his QB options? That’s career suicide.
I think Schoen will use Jones’ injury status as an excuse/fig leaf to take a 1st rd QB.
Fat Wally’s thread pointing out that Schoen was reviewing the 2018 QB draft class sure indicates to me that Schoen is considering taking one.
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When $40 Million is committed to Daniel Jones next season? Makes zero sense. And then when Daniels fails epically behind a trash O-line, Schoen and Dabboll fall on the sword. You guys will never learn. You don't draft a new QB until you fix the O-line, period. Even Burrow couldn't overcome the crap O-line he plays behind. You think Daniels is going to do it?
Joe Burrow went to a Super Bowl in his second year?
While they passed on OL for Chase ....
Somehow I doubt the groupies will share this view.
We'll see where Sy lands on this, won't we?
The OL did not make the expected improvements and has been significantly worse. The offseason additions at the skill positions did not pan out like expected. Then the injuries especially to AT and SB. Bellinger regressing.
I am good with drafting a QB but this idea of putting practically everything on Jones is foolish. He played three games without both SB and AT. Opening day was a total team no show. That is four games of the 5.25 he played.
Surprised by some of the posters position on this. Some other posters it is business as usual....regarding Jones.
The OL did not make the expected improvements and has been significantly worse. The offseason additions at the skill positions did not pan out like expected. Then the injuries especially to AT and SB. Bellinger regressing.
I am good with drafting a QB but this idea of putting practically everything on Jones is foolish. He played three games without both SB and AT. Opening day was a total team no show. That is four games of the 5.25 he played.
Surprised by some of the posters position on this. Some other posters it is business as usual....regarding Jones.
Because despite Jones being a tremendous athlete, he looks wooden out there. He doesn't score TDs and he is constantly getting hurt. These are not minor things. I personally can't envision the Giants dethroning the Cowboys or Eagles with him at QB.
When's the last time Jones made a throw where you yelled, "holy shit!?" To me, that was his rookie season.
All of the arguments people make about other things affecting his game went out the window when Tyrod Taylor and Tommy DeVito played and did just as well, if not better.
The most troubling thing about Schoen's presser was when he referenced how Jones played in the preseason. Preseason? Jones played ONE DRIVE in the preseason.
Schoen/Daboll will take a QB if the opportunity presents itself, I'm confident. The opportunity will have to present itself though.
The OL did not make the expected improvements and has been significantly worse. The offseason additions at the skill positions did not pan out like expected. Then the injuries especially to AT and SB. Bellinger regressing.
I am good with drafting a QB but this idea of putting practically everything on Jones is foolish. He played three games without both SB and AT. Opening day was a total team no show. That is four games of the 5.25 he played.
Surprised by some of the posters position on this. Some other posters it is business as usual....regarding Jones.
Very well said!
I could be wrong, but I have a gut feeling that the Daniel Jones last straw on BBI may have been the number of TD passes thrown by Tommy DeVito (and his downfield completions.) I'm very happy for this young man and I hope his success/progress continues. But I'm not going to completely obsolete/delete Daniel Jones because an undrafted FA QB has performed relatively well.
Also, I'm with you about drafting a new QB, especially given Daniel Jones' injury history. But several BBIers are mistaken for making Daniel Jones their favorite whipping boy. But I understand the frustration. Watching miserable football year after year is just no fun.
How about the sideline throw to Hodgins against Minnesota in the playoffs when it was 24-24, when he was forced out of the pocket to his left?. Elite throw.
How about the down the sideline throw to Richie James in the regular season Minnesota game? Elite throw.
How about the thread the needle throw to Hodings in the end zone against Arizona this year? Elite throw.
Stop acting like Jones hasn't made wow throws since his rookie year. That is a made up thing.
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I agree with you about Jones. He was a good QB last season.
The OL did not make the expected improvements and has been significantly worse. The offseason additions at the skill positions did not pan out like expected. Then the injuries especially to AT and SB. Bellinger regressing.
I am good with drafting a QB but this idea of putting practically everything on Jones is foolish. He played three games without both SB and AT. Opening day was a total team no show. That is four games of the 5.25 he played.
Surprised by some of the posters position on this. Some other posters it is business as usual....regarding Jones.
Because despite Jones being a tremendous athlete, he looks wooden out there. He doesn't score TDs and he is constantly getting hurt. These are not minor things. I personally can't envision the Giants dethroning the Cowboys or Eagles with him at QB.
When's the last time Jones made a throw where you yelled, "holy shit!?" To me, that was his rookie season.
All of the arguments people make about other things affecting his game went out the window when Tyrod Taylor and Tommy DeVito played and did just as well, if not better.
The most troubling thing about Schoen's presser was when he referenced how Jones played in the preseason. Preseason? Jones played ONE DRIVE in the preseason.
I disagree regarding Devito and Tyrod. Look at the teams they beat- Washington and the Patriots. You telling me Jones's wouldn't look better then them against those garabage teams?
How about the sideline throw to Hodgins against Minnesota in the playoffs when it was 24-24, when he was forced out of the pocket to his left?. Elite throw.
How about the down the sideline throw to Richie James in the regular season Minnesota game? Elite throw.
How about the thread the needle throw to Hodings in the end zone against Arizona this year? Elite throw.
Stop acting like Jones hasn't made wow throws since his rookie year. That is a made up thing.
Those are throws NFL quarterbacks are expected to make. I'm talking like the 4th down throw he made against the Bears his rookie season.
The problem with you is you've become accustomed to mediocrity.
If there is no drop off, why is so much being paid into Jones?
I agree about the injuries but will add cost now being a big factor. I have said this already and my stance is if they draft another QB be right and take care of him better.
With everything being about Jones it is masking a lot of other very big problems and that includes coaching and even the GM.
I actually think we see the game itself quite similar.
Can you guys who want to stick with Jones anticipate ANY scenario where the Giants should move on?
Or just retirement?
Asking for a friend.
I am behind on watching LSU games this season. Work et al are fookin killing me and free time.
He's a fun watch. I'd recommend watching some of these consolidated games on YouTube.
Bama. Before your guy Dallas Turner crushed him on a brutal sack hit, Daniels was lighting up Bama in Tuscaloosa.
Florida. Florida always has athletes, especially on D. Daniels racked-up 600+ yards in total offense. Just think about that. Not Florida Atlantic or Florida Gulf Coast. The Gators. ;)
Auburn. Auburn isn't a great team, but they do have a lot of talent on the D side of the ball. And they gave Georgia a tough, tough game where Georgia had to rally in the 4th quarter.
Hugh Freeze is going to eventually resurrect that program eventually. But Daniels crushed them with 300+ passing yards and 100 yards rushing.
Anyway, I'm so starved for good QB play, that may be impairing by judgment a bit here. But I continue to read/hear enough supporting opinions that I think Daniels is really something special...
I feel like I am watching Lamar Jackson with better throwing skills when I watch Daniels. Just an amazing player. My favorite player in the draft. I don't see how his skills don't translate to the NFL. The only concerns as you alluded to are the frame. If he could add some bulk without losing explosiveness, the sky is the limit with him
Totally agree. I see a blend of Lamar (explosiveness with his turn of foot) and Stroud (release/poise).
I am not bw, but he does have some durability concerns and I see a lot of inconsistency in his mechanics. When everything is working he could be the top QB in this draft, but when it isn’t the arm strength and ball placements waver.
For me, I think EVERY QB prospect is an unknown whether they can quickly process the NFL game/speed and execute the right decision. The NFL game is so much more complex and faster than the college game that you just can't predict that major piece. On the other hand, if a QB has a big arm in college, they are going to have a big arm in the NFL.
So, Daniels is no exception there. From what I know, he is very coachable, so that should help to a degree.
Like every dual threat, Daniels is going to have to learn how to avoid big hits and be judicious with his running. And with his body type, despite the fact he has some Gumby-like ability, he's going to need to beef-up for sure.
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I agree with you about Jones. He was a good QB last season.
The OL did not make the expected improvements and has been significantly worse. The offseason additions at the skill positions did not pan out like expected. Then the injuries especially to AT and SB. Bellinger regressing.
I am good with drafting a QB but this idea of putting practically everything on Jones is foolish. He played three games without both SB and AT. Opening day was a total team no show. That is four games of the 5.25 he played.
Surprised by some of the posters position on this. Some other posters it is business as usual....regarding Jones.
Because despite Jones being a tremendous athlete, he looks wooden out there. He doesn't score TDs and he is constantly getting hurt. These are not minor things. I personally can't envision the Giants dethroning the Cowboys or Eagles with him at QB.
When's the last time Jones made a throw where you yelled, "holy shit!?" To me, that was his rookie season.
All of the arguments people make about other things affecting his game went out the window when Tyrod Taylor and Tommy DeVito played and did just as well, if not better.
The most troubling thing about Schoen's presser was when he referenced how Jones played in the preseason. Preseason? Jones played ONE DRIVE in the preseason.
I can somewhat agree with this, and by no mean should Devito be a starting QB in this league(at least not yet), and his throws have more pop than Jones.
Winston was one of the most impressive players on the white board coaches have ever seen. Winston on the field was a different story.
Winston was one of the most impressive players on the white board coaches have ever seen. Winston on the field was a different story.
It's not just processing vs live bullets. Defenses change at the snap much more frequently in the NFL. How rookie QBs will adapt to shifting defenses is a complete unknown.
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Jones will be on the Giants next year. They don't save anything by cutting him. Your view that they are married to Jones beyond that does not jive with the out Schoen has with the contract after two years. I think they like what they saw last year of Jones, but still didn't want to fully commit to him. Obviously, this year has not been a good year performance wise or injury wise.
If they are in a position to draft a QB they think is a franchise QB, they would be fools to pass on him. Similarly, if they draft a QB just for the sake of drafting a QB, they'd be fools.
Just because there is an out doesn't mean they'll use it, and I don't believe outside of the top-2 there will be any appetite at the very top of the organization (as Ranaan strongly suggested) to draft a QB in the 1st round whether he's a potential franchise QB or not.
So, a hypothetical:
The 2024 Giants with Daniel Jones as their QB win 7-8 games and are reasonably competitive. They play (as Mara says) "meaningful games in December" but narrowly miss the last playoff spot in the NFC. Jones has a decent season, something like 2022 statistically.
Any chance they don't bring him back in 2025?
Do they want to turn him into Dave Krieg?
Can you guys who want to stick with Jones anticipate ANY scenario where the Giants should move on?
Or just retirement?
Asking for a friend.
Eric: I have been accused of being a Jones guy in the past so I will give it a shot. (And just to be clear I supported resigning Jones last year in part because I see a guy with some tools who can be tough to defend, but more importantly, they simply didn't have any other reasonable options at all.
And I am 100% in on getting a QB this year because a) a 2nd neck issue and a ACL are really worrisome and you need an insurance policy and b) if you get a shot at a potential elite QB you take it when you don't have one and Jones isn't in that class.
That said Jones will be the starter next fall if he's healthy and going forward and, assuming they do draft a QB, they'll sort it out going forward. Remember any draft pick you bring has at best a 50% likelihood of being a really good player. At the same time I am still nowhere near ready to write off Jones, especially thinking of guys like Simms, who had an injury-plagued early career and didn't emerge as a franchise QB until his 6th season and Geno Smith. I am also a little shocked at the blame Jones has gotten for the team's start. He didn't play great but the supporting cast around him, especially the OL was dreadful.
In that latter context I kind of chuckle at the myriad of posters who will say, and I paraphrase here 'we just have to move on from Jones because he sucks, but I'm not sure any new QB will have any more success as the Giants OL is so bad (and it is).
Let me know if that helps your friend in any way.
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It's not just you, I'm fully expecting it.
What would Daboll have to say about this? He’s going into his make or break 3rd season with Jones, who may not even be able to play the first half of the season, and some mediocre vet backup as his QB options? That’s career suicide.
I think Schoen will use Jones’ injury status as an excuse/fig leaf to take a 1st rd QB.
Fat Wally’s thread pointing out that Schoen was reviewing the 2018 QB draft class sure indicates to me that Schoen is considering taking one.
Extending Jones removed much of my confidence in the brass in the short-term regarding the QB position. Their approach to building for 2023 was also short-sighted and I called it out last offseason. They're gonna have to earn my confidence with much, much better performance in the front office moving forward. The good parts of 2022 are long gone in the rear view mirror.
My rants are an equal opportunity employer. LOL (:-) And thank goodness BBI exists or it would be countless hours of psycho-therapy for me!
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In comment 16307068 JonC said:
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It's not just you, I'm fully expecting it.
What would Daboll have to say about this? He’s going into his make or break 3rd season with Jones, who may not even be able to play the first half of the season, and some mediocre vet backup as his QB options? That’s career suicide.
I think Schoen will use Jones’ injury status as an excuse/fig leaf to take a 1st rd QB.
Fat Wally’s thread pointing out that Schoen was reviewing the 2018 QB draft class sure indicates to me that Schoen is considering taking one.
Extending Jones removed much of my confidence in the brass in the short-term regarding the QB position. Their approach to building for 2023 was also short-sighted and I called it out last offseason. They're gonna have to earn my confidence with much, much better performance in the front office moving forward. The good parts of 2022 are long gone in the rear view mirror.
That said, Schoen might not get a better chance at a top QB prospect than in the 2024 draft. Hope he realizes and actions it accordingly. I get there are many NYG jobs on the line, and they're viewed as the priority. But, I'm damned sick of watching the weekly/yearly NYG embarrassment being put on the field.
Perhaps what Joe Schoen has to weigh is a QB in Round 1 versus several desperate needs, such as a #1 WR, at least 2 new O-Lineman, a serious EDGE rusher to complement Thibs and probably a front line DT to replace Leonard Williams.
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Yes, I am saying it is not clear that Jones would have won those games. He doesn't throw the ball down the field like DeVito. He also tends to turn the football over more.
But how would you balance that out when you factor in Jones's performance vs the Cardinals(with Daboll calling plays)? That performance showed the potential Jones has. Kafka has been terrible. You have to factor that in.
How many HCs and OCs has Jones had already? Are they all terrible?
And btw, you have to point to one half of one game in a QB's 5th year as to what his potential is then you are making a god-awful weak argument.
Perhaps what Joe Schoen has to weigh is a QB in Round 1 versus several desperate needs, such as a #1 WR, at least 2 new O-Lineman, a serious EDGE rusher to complement Thibs and probably a front line DT to replace Leonard Williams.
Jones doesn't matter in the calculus for me at all. He's going to be on the roster, he's going to get every chance to succeed, clearly. But, it's obvious the QB position needs an upgrade if they plan on chasing SB wins. I just hope Schoen does too and pulls the trigger early on a QB, if there's one they want, of course. If not, great, get the blue chips and other upgrades, and be prepared for another top 10 pick in 2025.
I'd be stunned if the Giants don't draft a QB in the first or second round. Next year is the last year for Jones.
Agree. Take the best player. If Giants get the 7th pick and they don't want to trade up because it is too rich, take the best guy. That appears to be Edge or WR for me. As long as something crazy doesn't happen like Williams or Maye falling for some late reason.
And because Jones is "probably not" as good as Patrick Mahomes.
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In comment 16307030 Eightshamrocks said:
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In comment 16307022 averagejoe said:
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Oy vey . I guess this means DeVito is a future HOF'er..lol..
And his 2022 season, winning a road playoff was a figment of our imaginations? This os where the Jobes haters go too far. You can argue he needs to be replaced sure, but to label him as a bust is a joke.
BUST
lots of QBs won a playoff game once:
Bortles
Osweiler
Trubisky
Tebow
And Jones is berrer than all of them. Let me explain to you what a bust looks like. Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russel, Dwayne Haskins, etc. Not Daniel Jones.
Why is Jones berrer than all of those QBs? Because you said so? They all meet the same criteria YOU laid out for measuring success. And they all suck, including DJ.
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and No TD Jones never even looks at him. There is no way forward with Jones at QB. He needs to be replaced. Trade back a few spots and draft Penix .
Hyatt admitted in his post game interview last week that he has needed to develop and is just now starting to. But keep on beating the dead horse about Jones.
I'm hopeful while Jones is in there, Schoen and his staff at least figure out how to self-scout better, improve their draft and UFA utilization to improve the foundation and depth of the team. Just maybe they'll get it moving in the right direction and find the right QB along the way.
The flip side is if one doesn't think Jones is the answer and/or has too many health questions now, this may be the team's best shot at replacing him given their draft position, extra 2nd round pick, and the QBs who are available.
If everyone comes out you are right... This may be our best chance to get a great to very good QB prospect. Sadly if we don't and get a Nabers we either win with DJ or we lose and get a good pick in a worse draft. So if you are going QB this is the year. I think DJ can be good with protection, but can he stay healthy? That is where I am fading on him.
Who also holds the title of Board Director.
DJ will 100% be here next year... He will most likely be our starter even if we had the #1 pick... However will he finish the year as starter.
You crazy... you clearly have never seen Nabers play or MHJ
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In comment 16306974 averagejoe said:
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and No TD Jones never even looks at him. There is no way forward with Jones at QB. He needs to be replaced. Trade back a few spots and draft Penix .
Hyatt admitted in his post game interview last week that he has needed to develop and is just now starting to. But keep on beating the dead horse about Jones.
How many snaps has DJ played with Hyatt... I would guess not that many.
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we can avoid these types of discussions in 2024, 2025, 2026, and beyond...
Can you guys who want to stick with Jones anticipate ANY scenario where the Giants should move on?
Or just retirement?
Asking for a friend.
Eric: I have been accused of being a Jones guy in the past so I will give it a shot. (And just to be clear I supported resigning Jones last year in part because I see a guy with some tools who can be tough to defend, but more importantly, they simply didn't have any other reasonable options at all.
And I am 100% in on getting a QB this year because a) a 2nd neck issue and a ACL are really worrisome and you need an insurance policy and b) if you get a shot at a potential elite QB you take it when you don't have one and Jones isn't in that class.
That said Jones will be the starter next fall if he's healthy and going forward and, assuming they do draft a QB, they'll sort it out going forward. Remember any draft pick you bring has at best a 50% likelihood of being a really good player. At the same time I am still nowhere near ready to write off Jones, especially thinking of guys like Simms, who had an injury-plagued early career and didn't emerge as a franchise QB until his 6th season and Geno Smith. I am also a little shocked at the blame Jones has gotten for the team's start. He didn't play great but the supporting cast around him, especially the OL was dreadful.
In that latter context I kind of chuckle at the myriad of posters who will say, and I paraphrase here 'we just have to move on from Jones because he sucks, but I'm not sure any new QB will have any more success as the Giants OL is so bad (and it is).
Let me know if that helps your friend in any way.
This is pretty close to my stance... well said.
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It's not just you, I'm fully expecting it.
DJ will 100% be here next year... He will most likely be our starter even if we had the #1 pick... However will he finish the year as starter.
Yeah I realize that, my point was I'm not so sure they're going to be ready and prepared to go QB high in the '24 draft.
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In comment 16307068 JonC said:
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It's not just you, I'm fully expecting it.
DJ will 100% be here next year... He will most likely be our starter even if we had the #1 pick... However will he finish the year as starter.
Yeah I realize that, my point was I'm not so sure they're going to be ready and prepared to go QB high in the '24 draft.
I agree... this is the year if everyone comes out. NIL changes things some.
You don't think a 6th year player that has been successful in a system going into his 3rd year wouldn't start? DJ will start the season most likely, so people need to be prepared. He might not finish it but he will start it.
I think you have stepped too far out on a limb. You almost make it sound like
a veteran QB never started while a rookie first round QB sat and watched for a few games? But what about Eli Manning or Patrick Mahomes or dozens of others?
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I feel like I am watching Lamar Jackson with better throwing skills when I watch Daniels. Just an amazing player. My favorite player in the draft. I don't see how his skills don't translate to the NFL. The only concerns as you alluded to are the frame. If he could add some bulk without losing explosiveness, the sky is the limit with him
Totally agree. I see a blend of Lamar (explosiveness with his turn of foot) and Stroud (release/poise).
Sounds similar to what I've said a couple of weeks ago. I made the comparison that he is a blend of Fields as a runner and Stroud as a passer (and somewhat a similar body-type). I think his running is more similar to Fields than Lamar. It's a small nuance that doesn't matter a whole lot. The both have great speed, Lamar is a juke artist that has parlayed short-area quickness/lateral agility into long runs, not that he doesn't have long speed. I think Fields and Daniels are guys that have great speed that chews up yardage when a lane opens, but not looking to break a bunch of ankles.
And frankly, I prefer the latter, because I want a pass-first QB, run when it's there. And I think Daniels does that.
One thing I found interesting is that Fields' high water season mark for rushing at OSU was 484 yards his sophomore season.
But Fields had 1143 yards rushing in 15 games last season with the Bears.
Daniels has eclipsed that 484 rushing yards mark in all of his last 3 seasons and already has 1134 rushing yards this year in 12 games. AND he did that in 135 carries...Fields as a runner in college, in his 484 rushing year he did that in 137 carries. So he's more than doubled the rushing production in 2 fewer carries. Lamar ran for 1571 yards in his sophomore year on 260 rushes his sophomore year, and 1601 yards rushing on 232 rushes his junior year.
Daniels, based on his current yards per run, would have a shade under 2000 yards rushing if he ran as often as Lamar did in his junior season. Now, it doesn't work that way, and part of this is the comparative styles of QB, where Daniels is a more advanced passer that teams must respect, particularly with Thomas Jr and Nabers running routes out there, but this all speaks very well of Daniels when you look at the whole package and what he has done.
What Daniels has done as a passer this year far exceeds anything Lamar did as a passer, and is much better than Fields in college, although Fields had a terrific Sophomore year. But even considering Fields sophomore passing line:
14 games, 238-345/67.2%, 3273 yards, 9.2 Y/A, 41-3 TD-INT
Compared to Daniels this year:
12 games, 236-327/72.2%, 3812 yards, 11.7 Y/A, 40-4 TD-INT
It's simply a masterful season from Daniels, one of the best ever. Daniels' performance outpaces the best college season of Tebow by a fairly wide margin. It's better than Tua's best season, better than DeShaun Watson's, better than Marcus Mariota's best season, who all had incredible college years.
The only QB I can point to that has a claim to better is Joe Burrow's redshirt SR season, when he threw for 5671 yards at 76.3% and 60-6 TD-INT, adding 368 yards and 5 scores on the ground.
Now you can look at these great seasons and say, well that's sort of a mixed bag. Tua has had an up and down career so far, currently up, Watson the same, Mariota and Tebow were busts.
And Burrow of course is an elite franchise QB, but he doesn't have the play style that the other QBs did in terms of not being much of a running QB like the others.
But when you combine the efficiency numbers of Daniels as a passer with the elite rushing, to me if he was somehow there, and you look at the elite release, the touch and accuracy on deep throws, this is a confluence of many factors that make him a QB that I don't think you can pass on if he were there.
Man, you make GoTerps seem like a Jones supporter. I've never seen someone so anti-Jones.
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A game unless that guy is hurt.
You don't think a 6th year player that has been successful in a system going into his 3rd year wouldn't start? DJ will start the season most likely, so people need to be prepared. He might not finish it but he will start it.
No. They installed more vertical concepts and he failed. If they draft a first round QB he's playing, probably in game 1 but definitely by game 6. The Jones era will be over.
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In comment 16307618 ajr2456 said:
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A game unless that guy is hurt.
You don't think a 6th year player that has been successful in a system going into his 3rd year wouldn't start? DJ will start the season most likely, so people need to be prepared. He might not finish it but he will start it.
No. They installed more vertical concepts and he failed. If they draft a first round QB he's playing, probably in game 1 but definitely by game 6. The Jones era will be over.
Wrong again... he had the worst pass protection so going down field was not possible. If DJ had as much time as DeVito is getting you would see more down field success. Having AT and JMS come back is a big part of it, but I would also say Pugh has been a great addition. No way Jones doesn't start next year and if he is playing well they won't bench him. It will turn into Alex Smith and Mahomes. If he doesn't play well it will turn into Eli and DJ.
Which I don't believe will stop them from starting him. If he is playing well and we are winning they won't bench him. If he is average, worse than average, or we are losing he will be benched if we drafted a QB. So it is fair to say but not for the beginning of the year... we are running this back next year.
I’ll let him speak for himself, but based on his last post there is no way to come to such a conclusion. Was there a prior post of his that leads you to such a conclusion?
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is about keeping Jones away from another injury, and any potential chance to trade him and get the contract remainder off the books.
I’ll let him speak for himself, but based on his last post there is no way to come to such a conclusion. Was there a prior post of his that leads you to such a conclusion?
Yes.
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A game unless that guy is hurt.
Man, you make GoTerps seem like a Jones supporter. I've never seen someone so anti-Jones.
Yawn. I’m not anti Jones, im pro good QB play. If the Giants take a first round QB Jones isn’t starting for a number of reasons. This is one of the problems, any circitism or wildness to move on from Jones is seen as being a “hater”
1) The injury guarantees. If the Giants are taking a QB, they’ve decided Jones isn’t their guy, and they plan to cut him at the first available moment. They’re not going to risk the 2025 injury guarantees kicking in if he was to suffer another serious injury.
2) The best way to not end up in the current situation is to find out what you think of your first round QB as quickly as possible, this way you’re not in limbo when it comes to his fifth year option. The Giants will likely and should want to see 34 games from the new QB and have an idea by the end of year two if he can be the guy or not.
3) The Giants will in all likely hood have a better roster next year. There’s no reason not to see the rookie behind it.
4) Daboll has shown he can adapt and scale back the offense and still be successful. There’s no reason for the rookie to sit and learn, you can slowly expand the offense as the rookie hits thresholds. Sure that comes with some bumps in the road, but the Giants aren’t winning a Super Bowl next year with Jones. What’s the big deal if you go 5-11 or 8-9?
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In comment 16307618 ajr2456 said:
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A game unless that guy is hurt.
Man, you make GoTerps seem like a Jones supporter. I've never seen someone so anti-Jones.
Yawn. I’m not anti Jones, im pro good QB play. If the Giants take a first round QB Jones isn’t starting for a number of reasons. This is one of the problems, any circitism or wildness to move on from Jones is seen as being a “hater”
1) The injury guarantees. If the Giants are taking a QB, they’ve decided Jones isn’t their guy, and they plan to cut him at the first available moment. They’re not going to risk the 2025 injury guarantees kicking in if he was to suffer another serious injury.
2) The best way to not end up in the current situation is to find out what you think of your first round QB as quickly as possible, this way you’re not in limbo when it comes to his fifth year option. The Giants will likely and should want to see 34 games from the new QB and have an idea by the end of year two if he can be the guy or not.
3) The Giants will in all likely hood have a better roster next year. There’s no reason not to see the rookie behind it.
4) Daboll has shown he can adapt and scale back the offense and still be successful. There’s no reason for the rookie to sit and learn, you can slowly expand the offense as the rookie hits thresholds. Sure that comes with some bumps in the road, but the Giants aren’t winning a Super Bowl next year with Jones. What’s the big deal if you go 5-11 or 8-9?
I hear you and other about injury guarantees, but this is major WISHFUL thinking.
Veteran preference is real.
That said, I think the most likely scenario is that DJ will not have been healthy enough to get reps early, possibly not healthy enough to go week 1, and if you do have a QB drafted in the top 10 that has played all camp and preseason and gotten all those 1st team reps, then it will be the rookie starting, and then it's all up to his performance and health as to whether or not DJ sees the field as a Giant again.
Veteran preference is real.
That said, I think the most likely scenario is that DJ will not have been healthy enough to get reps early, possibly not healthy enough to go week 1, and if you do have a QB drafted in the top 10 that has played all camp and preseason and gotten all those 1st team reps, then it will be the rookie starting, and then it's all up to his performance and health as to whether or not DJ sees the field as a Giant again.
If we draft a 1st round QB, a clock starts ticking. He is on his own timeline, irrespective of Jones' performance. When the rookie is ready to take over, he does. He doesn't have to win the job. He just needs to play well enough to run a functional offense.
It is logical to you... but in the NFL they want to win and DJ will give them the best chance to win. That isn't even thinking about the fact they are play him 40 mil and will want to prove the deal. He will start and if he plays well and we are winning he will continue to start.
This board is far more bullish on Daniels than observers and mock drafters. I'm not saying they're right, but ask yourself why. What are his deficits?
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Its logical
It is logical to you... but in the NFL they want to win and DJ will give them the best chance to win. That isn't even thinking about the fact they are play him 40 mil and will want to prove the deal. He will start and if he plays well and we are winning he will continue to start.
Dude.. we're a pathetic team with Jones. We're not the 2018 Chiefs.
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Its logical
It is logical to you... but in the NFL they want to win and DJ will give them the best chance to win. That isn't even thinking about the fact they are play him 40 mil and will want to prove the deal. He will start and if he plays well and we are winning he will continue to start.
How is what I said wishful thinking but thinking Jones coming off an ACL gives them the best chance to win isn’t?
They haven’t won much with Jones, how are you so sure he gives them the better chance to win? Because he’s more experienced?
There's a long way to go and a lot of discussion to be had when talking about non-QB prospects, but if you watch Turner...the one word that comes to mind when watching him play is "violent". He is really powerful, tremendous edge-setter, and terrific burst and pursuit. He bends bigger OTs back with regularity. And when he gets to the tackle, whether it's a RB or the QB, he delivers punishing tackles, just violent tackles.
You put him on the other side of Thibodeaux with Dex in the middle, and it's going to be a serious problem for offenses. It would really propel the defensive side of the ball into one of the best in the NFL, I really believe that.
So a scenario of Turner in the first, 2nd round QB, and a 2nd round receiver, say Emeka Egbuka and Bo Nix, just as a hypothetical, I'm not going to be pissed.
Luke Easterling has them going Daniels, Jordan Morgan and Tez Walker
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In comment 16307683 ajr2456 said:
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Its logical
It is logical to you... but in the NFL they want to win and DJ will give them the best chance to win. That isn't even thinking about the fact they are play him 40 mil and will want to prove the deal. He will start and if he plays well and we are winning he will continue to start.
Dude.. we're a pathetic team with Jones. We're not the 2018 Chiefs.
Dude... This is pretty normal. Brees/Rivers, Warner/Eli, AlexSmtih/Mahomes, Eli/DJ, AndyDalton/JustinFields,JoeFlacco/LamarJackson, Garoppolo/TreyLance, etc... While more and more QBs start game 1, teams with playable QBs no matter how high the other QB was drafted usually ease them in.
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with Daniels still on the board, I will break things. It will be a completely idiotic move in every way.
This board is far more bullish on Daniels than observers and mock drafters. I'm not saying they're right, but ask yourself why. What are his deficits?
None of any of that matters. Didn't matter when it came to Darnold (assumed #1 overall for a year plus by all those people, went after Mayfield), didn't matter.
He has as good a chance (maybe better) as Williams or Maye to go #1 overall.
In terms of his deficits, it's that he is a bit of a one year wonder, although it's not like he was bad last year, but didn't have the big passing TD totals like he has had this year (17-3 TD-INT ratio). Still a 68% plus passer last season. And obviously and the biggest concern is his slight build. But the positives, IMO, far outweigh those concerns. We'll have to see what he comes in at in terms of height-weight at the combine. He's listed at 185 lbs, which isn't a number that should be trusted, but if he comes in at the combine at that weight, it's a legitimate concern. I'd want to see him at at least 200 lbs.
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In comment 16307683 ajr2456 said:
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Its logical
It is logical to you... but in the NFL they want to win and DJ will give them the best chance to win. That isn't even thinking about the fact they are play him 40 mil and will want to prove the deal. He will start and if he plays well and we are winning he will continue to start.
How is what I said wishful thinking but thinking Jones coming off an ACL gives them the best chance to win isn’t?
They haven’t won much with Jones, how are you so sure he gives them the better chance to win? Because he’s more experienced?
Jones will be back earlier... there isn't many other harder working QBs in the league. He will make a good recovery because that is who he is. Yes he has a ton of experience in this offense, in this league, and much like Eli when DJ is here he will start the season.
I mean this argument is kind of ridiculous. They have to draft a QB in the first or maybe second for this to even be an issue. Are you sold they will? I mean they will take one as some point, but high first?
Yeah Jon, given the quality of receivers that I think will be available in round 2, I'd take Turner over MHJ. I think in terms of team impact, it's similar, maybe greater. There won't be a guy like Turner at Edge in round 2. And there won't be a guy like MHJ either, but you might still get a good #1 type of receiver.
Turner is a manimal.
Yes it does... physical therapy and the ability to rebuild strength and function in your knee matters.
Latu looks good also but his medicals are going to be huge and will probably drop some.
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Doesn’t make your ligaments heal faster
Yes it does... physical therapy and the ability to rebuild strength and function in your knee matters.
And that still doesn’t guarantee you’ll heal faster. That’s just not how it works
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I'd pick Turner, happily.
Latu looks good also but his medicals are going to be huge and will probably drop some.
Not seen alot of him so far, but what I did see he's long and moves well, but I didn't see much twitch, explosion, burst, or violence.
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In comment 16307725 ajr2456 said:
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Doesn’t make your ligaments heal faster
Yes it does... physical therapy and the ability to rebuild strength and function in your knee matters.
And that still doesn’t guarantee you’ll heal faster. That’s just not how it works
You can't guarantee anything. That is ridiculous. Would you prefer he will more than likely be back? Does that make you feel better?
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In comment 16307733 JonC said:
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I'd pick Turner, happily.
Latu looks good also but his medicals are going to be huge and will probably drop some.
Not seen alot of him so far, but what I did see he's long and moves well, but I didn't see much twitch, explosion, burst, or violence.
Oh you need to watch more of him. I watch a ton of Pac-12 football. He is legit. Fast, explosive, closing, power... Against USC you see him blow by a OG/OT and also power through the RT and RB for sacks. That game is a good example of who he is. If he didn't have the Washington medicals he would be top 5-10 lock.
So you think vertical concepts take longer to run than horizontal concepts?
When a WR runs a 10 yard drag route, do you think he only runs 10 yards?
The excuses are losing their oomph.
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In comment 16307735 Amtoft said:
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In comment 16307725 ajr2456 said:
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Doesn’t make your ligaments heal faster
Yes it does... physical therapy and the ability to rebuild strength and function in your knee matters.
And that still doesn’t guarantee you’ll heal faster. That’s just not how it works
You can't guarantee anything. That is ridiculous. Would you prefer he will more than likely be back? Does that make you feel better?
A good way to damage your own credibility might be to suggest that being a hard worker makes your ligaments heal faster.
Is there anything that Daniel Jones's magical work ethic can't do?!
Other than be good at football, of course.
You can't guarantee anything. That is ridiculous. Would you prefer he will more than likely be back? Does that make you feel better?
Again, you’re guaranteeing that he’ll be back. Why are you allowed to say what you think but mine is nonsense and wishful thinking? Until he’s back on the field the Giants will be operating like he won’t be, Schoen himself said it the other day. That’s how I’m operating as well. You’re guaranteeing that Jones gives the Giants the best chance to win next year over a rookie, when that is far from a known right now. He didn’t even give them a better chance to win over Tommy DeVito this year.
I gave a logical post that listed four reasons why Jones probably won’t start again if they take a first round QB. If you want to chalk that up to wishful thinking and hating Jones, that’s your prerogative. If you don’t think the injury guarantees are going to be a factor if they have a replacement on the roster you haven’t been paying attention to he NFL. If you’ve moved on from Jones by taking a first round QB, you’re doing it with the belief you could compete for a postseason spot with the new QB by year 2, therefore he needs as much experience as possible before.
If you want to clutch onto the chance of Jones still being an option, be my guest.
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Wrong again... he had the worst pass protection so going down field was not possible. If DJ had as much time as DeVito is getting you would see more down field success.
So you think vertical concepts take longer to run than horizontal concepts?
When a WR runs a 10 yard drag route, do you think he only runs 10 yards?
The excuses are losing their oomph.
There's this belief on BBI that you can't get time to throw to a guy like Hyatt deep because no time.
That's just not true. We see other QBs do it. You can throw 40 yards downfield while only holding the ball in that low 2 second range from snap to throw. Happens all the time. With the flight time of the ball, you can get balls deep with the receiver running under it. Maybe not the perfect example, because it's just a 20 yard throw, but here's DeVito to Hyatt. Look at how long this takes to get the ball out:
https://youtu.be/0Yy9-tI7UZU?t=17
But I posted a while back of other QBs throwing much deeper shots getting the ball out in that 2 second timeframe.
Sounds like you are all aboard the JD Express... ;)
Sounds like you are all aboard the JD Express... ;)
As of now, absolutely. I really try to not get married to any player before the process plays out, to include the combine and pro days. We still have more football to play.
We still have information to collect. More game footage to watch.
But I see a player with this all around toolset...obviously the runs are impressive. But what I didn't expect to be so pleasantly surprised with in watching Daniels is the touch and accuracy he has on all levels of the field. And obviously that release of his is so good.
The problem is that we may not get the opportunity to draft him. I think it's not out of the question he goes 1.1, and I think that has only become likelier over the last month.
We don't know how these teams at the top are going to stack their boards.
And the other thing is that if it's not Daniels, but Williams or Maye, I have more worries about bust potential with both players, tbh.
And it's a possibility that none of the three are available for us without a trade up. So we have to be open to the possibility that it's a non-QB in round 1, or at least the top of round 1. I hope Schoen can find a guy later in those scenarios that can turn into something special. One of these other guys probably will pan out. I can't affect any of it so I'll just be an interested observer, do my draft homework that I love to do every year, so I have my rooting interests all in order when the draft comes around, and to contribute here in the lead up.
Even if it doesn't go the way I want it to, I'm going to be fully invested in the Schoen-Daboll rebuild project, given enough time, I do believe they will be successful.
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You can't guarantee anything. That is ridiculous. Would you prefer he will more than likely be back? Does that make you feel better?
Again, you’re guaranteeing that he’ll be back. Why are you allowed to say what you think but mine is nonsense and wishful thinking? Until he’s back on the field the Giants will be operating like he won’t be, Schoen himself said it the other day. That’s how I’m operating as well. You’re guaranteeing that Jones gives the Giants the best chance to win next year over a rookie, when that is far from a known right now. He didn’t even give them a better chance to win over Tommy DeVito this year.
I gave a logical post that listed four reasons why Jones probably won’t start again if they take a first round QB. If you want to chalk that up to wishful thinking and hating Jones, that’s your prerogative. If you don’t think the injury guarantees are going to be a factor if they have a replacement on the roster you haven’t been paying attention to he NFL. If you’ve moved on from Jones by taking a first round QB, you’re doing it with the belief you could compete for a postseason spot with the new QB by year 2, therefore he needs as much experience as possible before.
If you want to clutch onto the chance of Jones still being an option, be my guest.
I mean that is fair enough. You are right he may not be back from injury and he may not start. My opinion is no more informed than yours so I see what you are saying. To me Jones starting the beginning of next year is almost a lock. To you it isn't. I guess we will see.
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In comment 16307741 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16307735 Amtoft said:
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In comment 16307725 ajr2456 said:
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Doesn’t make your ligaments heal faster
Yes it does... physical therapy and the ability to rebuild strength and function in your knee matters.
And that still doesn’t guarantee you’ll heal faster. That’s just not how it works
You can't guarantee anything. That is ridiculous. Would you prefer he will more than likely be back? Does that make you feel better?
A good way to damage your own credibility might be to suggest that being a hard worker makes your ligaments heal faster.
Is there anything that Daniel Jones's magical work ethic can't do?!
Other than be good at football, of course.
Again... "physical therapy and the ability to rebuild strength and function in your knee matters"
As for as "credibility" Ohhhh no... please don't take away credibility! Hahaha we are all talking about our opinions here. You can take me with any grain of salt you want.
The things he has to work most on are his passing/throwing mechanics, which would be an uphill climb in the NFL IMO.
I view him more as a severe hit or miss and wouldn’t take that chance.
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Daniels throws right-handed and possesses a smooth, fluid release. He has the arm strength and accuracy to make all the throws he will need in the NFL.
Cool. Well now I’m sold.
As of now, absolutely. I really try to not get married to any player before the process plays out, to include the combine and pro days. We still have more football to play.
We still have information to collect. More game footage to watch.
But I see a player with this all around toolset...obviously the runs are impressive. But what I didn't expect to be so pleasantly surprised with in watching Daniels is the touch and accuracy he has on all levels of the field. And obviously that release of his is so good.
The problem is that we may not get the opportunity to draft him. I think it's not out of the question he goes 1.1, and I think that has only become likelier over the last month.
We don't know how these teams at the top are going to stack their boards.
And the other thing is that if it's not Daniels, but Williams or Maye, I have more worries about bust potential with both players, tbh.
And it's a possibility that none of the three are available for us without a trade up. So we have to be open to the possibility that it's a non-QB in round 1, or at least the top of round 1. I hope Schoen can find a guy later in those scenarios that can turn into something special. One of these other guys probably will pan out. I can't affect any of it so I'll just be an interested observer, do my draft homework that I love to do every year, so I have my rooting interests all in order when the draft comes around, and to contribute here in the lead up.
Even if it doesn't go the way I want it to, I'm going to be fully invested in the Schoen-Daboll rebuild project, given enough time, I do believe they will be successful.
Yes, there is more intel to collect, so this is a fluid process.
For the first two months of the college season, I had CW #1 and Maye #2. But Daniels's performances both visually and numbers wise were too compelling not to move him into the conversation as the top QB prospect. He's just been the most consistent performer and his skills look ideal for today's NFL. I have him #1 with CW and Maye interchangeable at #2.
I remember watching him last year and thinking he was pretty good, but erratic week to week. Well, that inconsistency is long gone, and he looks more comfortable than ever throwing the ball. I even went back and checked out video of his time back at ASU, especially his freshman year when he played pretty damn well. He completely outplayed Herbert when ASU upset the Ducks that year when they were top five. So, the talent has always been there, it just needed to blossom.
I have loved CW since he burst onto the scene with Oklahoma three years ago. His arm talent and running are superb. But he's been very sloppy this year in the pocket and his fundamentals have slipped. Those things are fixable, but I think it's a bit of a pullback overall.
Maye has struggled down the stretch as the wheels have fallen off the entire UNC team since the unexpected UVA loss. He's looked really off at time. But he's big, strong, a good arm, and he can move. There is a lot to like in the measurable department.
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Daniels throws right-handed and possesses a smooth, fluid release. He has the arm strength and accuracy to make all the throws he will need in the NFL.
Cool. Well now I’m sold.
You shouldn’t try being less condescending
* invested in both OT spots with early Round 1 picks
* invested in pass-rusher with early Round 1 pick
* 2024 draft weak at CB, DT for top 10 pick
So, right now, I'd say QB (Jayden Daniels) or WR (Nabers, Coleman, Odunze) are the most logical fits based on where this draft is strong and where they have needs
The things he has to work most on are his passing/throwing mechanics, which would be an uphill climb in the NFL IMO.
I view him more as a severe hit or miss and wouldn’t take that chance.
Daniels is extremely accurate and you have to love the short wind up. I am concerned about the pocket movement and ability to spot secondary receivers who are open. But his pure throwing is a plus.
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In comment 16307694 Amtoft said:
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In comment 16307683 ajr2456 said:
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Its logical
It is logical to you... but in the NFL they want to win and DJ will give them the best chance to win. That isn't even thinking about the fact they are play him 40 mil and will want to prove the deal. He will start and if he plays well and we are winning he will continue to start.
How is what I said wishful thinking but thinking Jones coming off an ACL gives them the best chance to win isn’t?
They haven’t won much with Jones, how are you so sure he gives them the better chance to win? Because he’s more experienced?
Jones will be back earlier... there isn't many other harder working QBs in the league. He will make a good recovery because that is who he is.
And this bullshit here is the entire problem. “There isn’t many other harder working QBs in the league”? Wtf? Aside from the horrific grammar, this idea that Jones works harder than most other QBs if absolutely asinine and that narrative is what is driving too many pro Jones opinions.
I hate to tell you, Jones does not work harder than most QBs. If you are a successful QB in the NFL, you are likely a very hard worker. You know why you THINK he works harder? It’s because that’s the typical “compliment” we see from the coaching staff and players. We never hear about his ability on the field. We hear he’s a hard worker. When people get asked about the better QBs in the league they don’t bring up how hard they work because they are too busy gushing about what they are doing ON THE FIELD.
Just stop with the hardest worker in the league bullshit you lunatics.
In February 2018 I started a thread saying Lamar Jackson was the best player in the draft and we should take him at 2. The college production as a runner and passer was incredible, and the highlights backed it up.
I can't help but feel the same with Daniels. The highlights show a different tier of athlete (in the SEC), and the production is extraordinary.
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Daniels throws right-handed and possesses a smooth, fluid release. He has the arm strength and accuracy to make all the throws he will need in the NFL.
Cool. Well now I’m sold.
There is not one single thing Jones does better than Daniels. Not one thing. How on earth are you so devoted to Jones and then have this much skepticism for a player that is more talented in every single phase of the game?
In February 2018 I started a thread saying Lamar Jackson was the best player in the draft and we should take him at 2. The college production as a runner and passer was incredible, and the highlights backed it up.
I can't help but feel the same with Daniels. The highlights show a different tier of athlete (in the SEC), and the production is extraordinary.
I saw this in the Sy thread. Check out JD's YPA. It almost 12. Just think about that...72% completion% and nearly 12 YPA.
That has to be a historical exacta...
So your view was shared by one of the best NFL front offices.
In February 2018 I started a thread saying Lamar Jackson was the best player in the draft and we should take him at 2. The college production as a runner and passer was incredible, and the highlights backed it up.
I can't help but feel the same with Daniels. The highlights show a different tier of athlete (in the SEC), and the production is extraordinary.
That is a hell of a year! I have to believe Daniels will climb to the top tier with CW and DM once the off season evaluations begin in earnest. This gives me hope that getting a top quarterback is still a possibility despite our expected draft position.
Also, developing good pocket skills is something hard working backup QBs can learn. Why is DJ unable to get better at it?
I question the work ethic praise.
Daniels against Florida was the best thing I've seen in CFB this year, by a lot.
Link - ( New Window )
Also, developing good pocket skills is something hard working backup QBs can learn. Why is DJ unable to get better at it?
I question the work ethic praise.
I have no doubt he’s a hard worker. I just have no idea what he’s working on. It’s certainly not translating on the field. He’s been working hard for 5 seasons, is there a discernible difference in his play from his rookie year until now?
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In comment 16307698 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16307694 Amtoft said:
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In comment 16307683 ajr2456 said:
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Its logical
It is logical to you... but in the NFL they want to win and DJ will give them the best chance to win. That isn't even thinking about the fact they are play him 40 mil and will want to prove the deal. He will start and if he plays well and we are winning he will continue to start.
How is what I said wishful thinking but thinking Jones coming off an ACL gives them the best chance to win isn’t?
They haven’t won much with Jones, how are you so sure he gives them the better chance to win? Because he’s more experienced?
Jones will be back earlier... there isn't many other harder working QBs in the league. He will make a good recovery because that is who he is.
And this bullshit here is the entire problem. “There isn’t many other harder working QBs in the league”? Wtf? Aside from the horrific grammar, this idea that Jones works harder than most other QBs if absolutely asinine and that narrative is what is driving too many pro Jones opinions.
I hate to tell you, Jones does not work harder than most QBs. If you are a successful QB in the NFL, you are likely a very hard worker. You know why you THINK he works harder? It’s because that’s the typical “compliment” we see from the coaching staff and players. We never hear about his ability on the field. We hear he’s a hard worker. When people get asked about the better QBs in the league they don’t bring up how hard they work because they are too busy gushing about what they are doing ON THE FIELD.
Just stop with the hardest worker in the league bullshit you lunatics.
Hahaha... this is my favorite part...
"Aside from the horrific grammar, this idea that Jones works harder than most other QBs if absolutely asinine and that narrative is what is driving too many pro Jones opinions."
Daniels against Florida was the best thing I've seen in CFB this year, by a lot. Link - ( New Window )
Check out the Alabama game, too. Before he got his pilot's license from the cheap shot by Turner, Daniels was lighting it up in Tuscaloosa. Check out his running in particular.
And the Bama D has some real good pro prospects with Turner (great edge), Kool-Aid (great corner), Braswell (good edge guy), Arnold (great DB)...
Also, developing good pocket skills is something hard working backup QBs can learn. Why is DJ unable to get better at it?
I question the work ethic praise.
So you're saying he might be stupid. At least compared to other quarterbacks in the league. Wr can say that if it explains his play, right?
I'm not yet sold, but he's making a strong pitch.
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In comment 16307722 Amtoft said:
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In comment 16307698 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16307694 Amtoft said:
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In comment 16307683 ajr2456 said:
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Its logical
It is logical to you... but in the NFL they want to win and DJ will give them the best chance to win. That isn't even thinking about the fact they are play him 40 mil and will want to prove the deal. He will start and if he plays well and we are winning he will continue to start.
How is what I said wishful thinking but thinking Jones coming off an ACL gives them the best chance to win isn’t?
They haven’t won much with Jones, how are you so sure he gives them the better chance to win? Because he’s more experienced?
Jones will be back earlier... there isn't many other harder working QBs in the league. He will make a good recovery because that is who he is.
And this bullshit here is the entire problem. “There isn’t many other harder working QBs in the league”? Wtf? Aside from the horrific grammar, this idea that Jones works harder than most other QBs if absolutely asinine and that narrative is what is driving too many pro Jones opinions.
I hate to tell you, Jones does not work harder than most QBs. If you are a successful QB in the NFL, you are likely a very hard worker. You know why you THINK he works harder? It’s because that’s the typical “compliment” we see from the coaching staff and players. We never hear about his ability on the field. We hear he’s a hard worker. When people get asked about the better QBs in the league they don’t bring up how hard they work because they are too busy gushing about what they are doing ON THE FIELD.
Just stop with the hardest worker in the league bullshit you lunatics.
Hahaha... this is my favorite part...
"Aside from the horrific grammar, this idea that Jones works harder than most other QBs if absolutely asinine and that narrative is what is driving too many pro Jones opinions."
You do understand that is the correct spelling of that word, right?
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I don’t even think Jones knows how to prepare for NFL games. Even modestly talented QBs can get pre snap reads right, which is apparently something which DJ struggles with.
Also, developing good pocket skills is something hard working backup QBs can learn. Why is DJ unable to get better at it?
I question the work ethic praise.
I have no doubt he’s a hard worker. I just have no idea what he’s working on. It’s certainly not translating on the field. He’s been working hard for 5 seasons, is there a discernible difference in his play from his rookie year until now?
Exactly. I’m sure he’s putting in the hours, but it’s not producing consistent improvement.
New England at #3 [100% will take a QB]
Washington at #5 [Howell will not hold them back]
Also, Arizona at #2 might trade down and Chicago at #4 most likely will trade down because some team might make an offer they cannot refuse.
Very high percentage that the Giants will not have get one of the top 3 QBs unless they trade up if the order does not change.
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A game unless that guy is hurt.
Man, you make GoTerps seem like a Jones supporter. I've never seen someone so anti-Jones.
And I’ve never seen someone more obtuse and Pollyannaish as you regarding Jones. Well done!
im not in that camp and the talent is obvious, but id haved liked to see some better performances vs the high quality opponents he played the last 2 years like Bama, UGA, FSU. 1-4 vs those teams in that time period. Florida was/is a dumpster fire right now, only ranked win this year was against Mizzou.
last bowl game projection i saw for LSU was ND, and that kind of opponent/win would be very good for daniels especially since presumably some of the weapons would sit (nabers). if he sits like pickett bad sign.
last year strouds best games were postseason, bryce young played postseason, in 2021 fields played in the bowl games (simmons picked him off), lawrence played even though he was basically a lock #1 by then, in 2020 herbert and burrow played. tua was hurt. in 2019 kyler played against bama and had a good game even though they lost. haskins, jones, lock all played too.
im not in that camp and the talent is obvious, but id haved liked to see some better performances vs the high quality opponents he played the last 2 years like Bama, UGA, FSU. 1-4 vs those teams in that time period. Florida was/is a dumpster fire right now, only ranked win this year was against Mizzou.
last bowl game projection i saw for LSU was ND, and that kind of opponent/win would be very good for daniels especially since presumably some of the weapons would sit (nabers). if he sits like pickett bad sign.
Daniels had a very good freshman year at ASU. He beat Oregon with Herbert and outplayed him.
The ASU program with Edwards then went sideways with all of the recruiting issues (Daniels's mom was accused, too). So, everything blew up...
I don't care how poor Florida is. They have pro athletes on both sides of the ball and Daniels piled up 600+ yards by himself. 600+. Just think about that. No other QB comes close to that.
Are you blaming Daniels for LSU only beating one ranked team? JFC, he produced 50 TDs and LSU leads the nation in scoring.
They lost to Bama because Turner cheap-shotted Daniels with a shot to the helmet and they lost to Ole Miss by six because LSU's D fell apart in the 4th quarter. He only had 500 yards total offense in that game, btw...
Man, you are being awfully rough on the guy...
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if you talk to anyone who watched him at ASU there is literally no convincing them he's actually a good qb.
im not in that camp and the talent is obvious, but id haved liked to see some better performances vs the high quality opponents he played the last 2 years like Bama, UGA, FSU. 1-4 vs those teams in that time period. Florida was/is a dumpster fire right now, only ranked win this year was against Mizzou.
last bowl game projection i saw for LSU was ND, and that kind of opponent/win would be very good for daniels especially since presumably some of the weapons would sit (nabers). if he sits like pickett bad sign.
Daniels had a very good freshman year at ASU. He beat Oregon with Herbert and outplayed him.
The ASU program with Edwards then went sideways with all of the recruiting issues (Daniels's mom was accused, too). So, everything blew up...
I don't care how poor Florida is. They have pro athletes on both sides of the ball and Daniels piled up 600+ yards by himself. 600+. Just think about that. No other QB comes close to that.
Are you blaming Daniels for LSU only beating one ranked team? JFC, he produced 50 TDs and LSU leads the nation in scoring.
They lost to Bama because Turner cheap-shotted Daniels with a shot to the helmet and they lost to Ole Miss by six because LSU's D fell apart in the 4th quarter. He only had 500 yards total offense in that game, btw...
Man, you are being awfully rough on the guy...
oregon herbert wasn't todays herbert because he was coached by cristobal - whom you were extremely right about bw, that guy probably would have found a way to mess up the lsu offense in 2020.
im only relaying what some people i trust think who watched a lot more asu than i do. yes they were a disaster with herm, though they've also rarely been all that good.
and yes, heisman qbs (especially the ones ticket to go top 10) in college get judged under a pretty ridiculous standard of winning big games and doing more than piling up stats on lesser opponents. it's literally been that way since the beginning of time. haskins, stroud, fields were all judged under that same microscope leading top teams with top weapons.
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In comment 16308881 Eric on Li said:
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if you talk to anyone who watched him at ASU there is literally no convincing them he's actually a good qb.
im not in that camp and the talent is obvious, but id haved liked to see some better performances vs the high quality opponents he played the last 2 years like Bama, UGA, FSU. 1-4 vs those teams in that time period. Florida was/is a dumpster fire right now, only ranked win this year was against Mizzou.
last bowl game projection i saw for LSU was ND, and that kind of opponent/win would be very good for daniels especially since presumably some of the weapons would sit (nabers). if he sits like pickett bad sign.
Daniels had a very good freshman year at ASU. He beat Oregon with Herbert and outplayed him.
The ASU program with Edwards then went sideways with all of the recruiting issues (Daniels's mom was accused, too). So, everything blew up...
I don't care how poor Florida is. They have pro athletes on both sides of the ball and Daniels piled up 600+ yards by himself. 600+. Just think about that. No other QB comes close to that.
Are you blaming Daniels for LSU only beating one ranked team? JFC, he produced 50 TDs and LSU leads the nation in scoring.
They lost to Bama because Turner cheap-shotted Daniels with a shot to the helmet and they lost to Ole Miss by six because LSU's D fell apart in the 4th quarter. He only had 500 yards total offense in that game, btw...
Man, you are being awfully rough on the guy...
oregon herbert wasn't todays herbert because he was coached by cristobal - whom you were extremely right about bw, that guy probably would have found a way to mess up the lsu offense in 2020.
im only relaying what some people i trust think who watched a lot more asu than i do. yes they were a disaster with herm, though they've also rarely been all that good.
and yes, heisman qbs (especially the ones ticket to go top 10) in college get judged under a pretty ridiculous standard of winning big games and doing more than piling up stats on lesser opponents. it's literally been that way since the beginning of time. haskins, stroud, fields were all judged under that same microscope leading top teams with top weapons.
This sounds awfully similar to skepticism people would voice about Joe Burrow inbetween legendary performance after legendary performance.
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In comment 16308901 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16308881 Eric on Li said:
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if you talk to anyone who watched him at ASU there is literally no convincing them he's actually a good qb.
im not in that camp and the talent is obvious, but id haved liked to see some better performances vs the high quality opponents he played the last 2 years like Bama, UGA, FSU. 1-4 vs those teams in that time period. Florida was/is a dumpster fire right now, only ranked win this year was against Mizzou.
last bowl game projection i saw for LSU was ND, and that kind of opponent/win would be very good for daniels especially since presumably some of the weapons would sit (nabers). if he sits like pickett bad sign.
Daniels had a very good freshman year at ASU. He beat Oregon with Herbert and outplayed him.
The ASU program with Edwards then went sideways with all of the recruiting issues (Daniels's mom was accused, too). So, everything blew up...
I don't care how poor Florida is. They have pro athletes on both sides of the ball and Daniels piled up 600+ yards by himself. 600+. Just think about that. No other QB comes close to that.
Are you blaming Daniels for LSU only beating one ranked team? JFC, he produced 50 TDs and LSU leads the nation in scoring.
They lost to Bama because Turner cheap-shotted Daniels with a shot to the helmet and they lost to Ole Miss by six because LSU's D fell apart in the 4th quarter. He only had 500 yards total offense in that game, btw...
Man, you are being awfully rough on the guy...
oregon herbert wasn't todays herbert because he was coached by cristobal - whom you were extremely right about bw, that guy probably would have found a way to mess up the lsu offense in 2020.
im only relaying what some people i trust think who watched a lot more asu than i do. yes they were a disaster with herm, though they've also rarely been all that good.
and yes, heisman qbs (especially the ones ticket to go top 10) in college get judged under a pretty ridiculous standard of winning big games and doing more than piling up stats on lesser opponents. it's literally been that way since the beginning of time. haskins, stroud, fields were all judged under that same microscope leading top teams with top weapons.
This sounds awfully similar to skepticism people would voice about Joe Burrow inbetween legendary performance after legendary performance.
except for the part where he put up almost 400-500 yards passing weekly in wins against bama (#2), uga (#4), oklahoma (#4), clemson (#3) on the way to a national championship with 19 tds and 0 ints in those 4 games.
but other than that the play was great right mrs lincoln?
and yes, heisman qbs (especially the ones ticket to go top 10) in college get judged under a pretty ridiculous standard of winning big games and doing more than piling up stats on lesser opponents. it's literally been that way since the beginning of time. haskins, stroud, fields were all judged under that same microscope leading top teams with top weapons.
I don't understand why you mention the Heisman. It's irrelevant. All I care about is the player as a prospect; and whether they have the skills to convey to the NFL and how they performed on the field.
Which performance this year by JD do you possibly have an issue with? The first game of the year versus FSU three months ago, currently a top ten D in PPG allowed, when he only had 400+ yards in total offense, 9+ YPA, and 1 INT?
LSU, again, is the top scoring offense in the country. What else would you like him to do when the LSU D is like 90th in the country in points allowed...
To each their own, I guess. But I don't see many blemishes this masterpiece of a year by Daniels.
im not in that camp and the talent is obvious, but id haved liked to see some better performances vs the high quality opponents he played the last 2 years like Bama, UGA, FSU. 1-4 vs those teams in that time period. Florida was/is a dumpster fire right now, only ranked win this year was against Mizzou.
last bowl game projection i saw for LSU was ND, and that kind of opponent/win would be very good for daniels especially since presumably some of the weapons would sit (nabers). if he sits like pickett bad sign.
I care a lot more about what he is now than what he was a couple of years ago in a crumbling program that fired it's coach. I think the Jayden Daniels in this draft will be the current version.
I think there are legit questions/criticisms of Daniels, but who he was 2-3 years ago and how many points his defense gives up this year seem like really irrelevant ones.