First 10 selections:
(1) Chicago (from Carolina): Caleb Williams, QB
(2) Arizona: Marvin Harrison, Jr., WR
(3) New England: Drake Maye, QB
(4) Chicago: Joe Alt, OT
(5) Washington: Olu Fashanu, OT
(6) Giants: Malik Nabers, WR
(7) Tampa Bay: Jayden Daniels, QB
(8) Jets: Brock Bowers, TE
(9) L.A. Chargers: J.C. Latham, OT
(10) Tennessee: Dallas Turner, EDGE
I think the odds of the Giants passing on Jayden Daniels are ZERO. I wouldn't cry, however, taking Malik Nabers. The Giants have nothing on their roster that can touch him. And the Giants have no pass rushing complement to Kayvon Thibodeaux, so I would have no problem taking either Dallas Turner or Laiatu Latu.
The OL did not make the expected improvements and has been significantly worse. The offseason additions at the skill positions did not pan out like expected. Then the injuries especially to AT and SB. Bellinger regressing.
I am good with drafting a QB but this idea of putting practically everything on Jones is foolish. He played three games without both SB and AT. Opening day was a total team no show. That is four games of the 5.25 he played.
Surprised by some of the posters position on this. Some other posters it is business as usual....regarding Jones.
Because despite Jones being a tremendous athlete, he looks wooden out there. He doesn't score TDs and he is constantly getting hurt. These are not minor things. I personally can't envision the Giants dethroning the Cowboys or Eagles with him at QB.
When's the last time Jones made a throw where you yelled, "holy shit!?" To me, that was his rookie season.
All of the arguments people make about other things affecting his game went out the window when Tyrod Taylor and Tommy DeVito played and did just as well, if not better.
The most troubling thing about Schoen's presser was when he referenced how Jones played in the preseason. Preseason? Jones played ONE DRIVE in the preseason.
Schoen/Daboll will take a QB if the opportunity presents itself, I'm confident. The opportunity will have to present itself though.
The OL did not make the expected improvements and has been significantly worse. The offseason additions at the skill positions did not pan out like expected. Then the injuries especially to AT and SB. Bellinger regressing.
I am good with drafting a QB but this idea of putting practically everything on Jones is foolish. He played three games without both SB and AT. Opening day was a total team no show. That is four games of the 5.25 he played.
Surprised by some of the posters position on this. Some other posters it is business as usual....regarding Jones.
Very well said!
I could be wrong, but I have a gut feeling that the Daniel Jones last straw on BBI may have been the number of TD passes thrown by Tommy DeVito (and his downfield completions.) I'm very happy for this young man and I hope his success/progress continues. But I'm not going to completely obsolete/delete Daniel Jones because an undrafted FA QB has performed relatively well.
Also, I'm with you about drafting a new QB, especially given Daniel Jones' injury history. But several BBIers are mistaken for making Daniel Jones their favorite whipping boy. But I understand the frustration. Watching miserable football year after year is just no fun.
How about the sideline throw to Hodgins against Minnesota in the playoffs when it was 24-24, when he was forced out of the pocket to his left?. Elite throw.
How about the down the sideline throw to Richie James in the regular season Minnesota game? Elite throw.
How about the thread the needle throw to Hodings in the end zone against Arizona this year? Elite throw.
Stop acting like Jones hasn't made wow throws since his rookie year. That is a made up thing.
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I agree with you about Jones. He was a good QB last season.
The OL did not make the expected improvements and has been significantly worse. The offseason additions at the skill positions did not pan out like expected. Then the injuries especially to AT and SB. Bellinger regressing.
I am good with drafting a QB but this idea of putting practically everything on Jones is foolish. He played three games without both SB and AT. Opening day was a total team no show. That is four games of the 5.25 he played.
Surprised by some of the posters position on this. Some other posters it is business as usual....regarding Jones.
Because despite Jones being a tremendous athlete, he looks wooden out there. He doesn't score TDs and he is constantly getting hurt. These are not minor things. I personally can't envision the Giants dethroning the Cowboys or Eagles with him at QB.
When's the last time Jones made a throw where you yelled, "holy shit!?" To me, that was his rookie season.
All of the arguments people make about other things affecting his game went out the window when Tyrod Taylor and Tommy DeVito played and did just as well, if not better.
The most troubling thing about Schoen's presser was when he referenced how Jones played in the preseason. Preseason? Jones played ONE DRIVE in the preseason.
I disagree regarding Devito and Tyrod. Look at the teams they beat- Washington and the Patriots. You telling me Jones's wouldn't look better then them against those garabage teams?
How about the sideline throw to Hodgins against Minnesota in the playoffs when it was 24-24, when he was forced out of the pocket to his left?. Elite throw.
How about the down the sideline throw to Richie James in the regular season Minnesota game? Elite throw.
How about the thread the needle throw to Hodings in the end zone against Arizona this year? Elite throw.
Stop acting like Jones hasn't made wow throws since his rookie year. That is a made up thing.
Those are throws NFL quarterbacks are expected to make. I'm talking like the 4th down throw he made against the Bears his rookie season.
The problem with you is you've become accustomed to mediocrity.
If there is no drop off, why is so much being paid into Jones?
I agree about the injuries but will add cost now being a big factor. I have said this already and my stance is if they draft another QB be right and take care of him better.
With everything being about Jones it is masking a lot of other very big problems and that includes coaching and even the GM.
I actually think we see the game itself quite similar.
Can you guys who want to stick with Jones anticipate ANY scenario where the Giants should move on?
Or just retirement?
Asking for a friend.
I am behind on watching LSU games this season. Work et al are fookin killing me and free time.
He's a fun watch. I'd recommend watching some of these consolidated games on YouTube.
Bama. Before your guy Dallas Turner crushed him on a brutal sack hit, Daniels was lighting up Bama in Tuscaloosa.
Florida. Florida always has athletes, especially on D. Daniels racked-up 600+ yards in total offense. Just think about that. Not Florida Atlantic or Florida Gulf Coast. The Gators. ;)
Auburn. Auburn isn't a great team, but they do have a lot of talent on the D side of the ball. And they gave Georgia a tough, tough game where Georgia had to rally in the 4th quarter.
Hugh Freeze is going to eventually resurrect that program eventually. But Daniels crushed them with 300+ passing yards and 100 yards rushing.
Anyway, I'm so starved for good QB play, that may be impairing by judgment a bit here. But I continue to read/hear enough supporting opinions that I think Daniels is really something special...
I feel like I am watching Lamar Jackson with better throwing skills when I watch Daniels. Just an amazing player. My favorite player in the draft. I don't see how his skills don't translate to the NFL. The only concerns as you alluded to are the frame. If he could add some bulk without losing explosiveness, the sky is the limit with him
Totally agree. I see a blend of Lamar (explosiveness with his turn of foot) and Stroud (release/poise).
I am not bw, but he does have some durability concerns and I see a lot of inconsistency in his mechanics. When everything is working he could be the top QB in this draft, but when it isn’t the arm strength and ball placements waver.
For me, I think EVERY QB prospect is an unknown whether they can quickly process the NFL game/speed and execute the right decision. The NFL game is so much more complex and faster than the college game that you just can't predict that major piece. On the other hand, if a QB has a big arm in college, they are going to have a big arm in the NFL.
So, Daniels is no exception there. From what I know, he is very coachable, so that should help to a degree.
Like every dual threat, Daniels is going to have to learn how to avoid big hits and be judicious with his running. And with his body type, despite the fact he has some Gumby-like ability, he's going to need to beef-up for sure.
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I agree with you about Jones. He was a good QB last season.
The OL did not make the expected improvements and has been significantly worse. The offseason additions at the skill positions did not pan out like expected. Then the injuries especially to AT and SB. Bellinger regressing.
I am good with drafting a QB but this idea of putting practically everything on Jones is foolish. He played three games without both SB and AT. Opening day was a total team no show. That is four games of the 5.25 he played.
Surprised by some of the posters position on this. Some other posters it is business as usual....regarding Jones.
Because despite Jones being a tremendous athlete, he looks wooden out there. He doesn't score TDs and he is constantly getting hurt. These are not minor things. I personally can't envision the Giants dethroning the Cowboys or Eagles with him at QB.
When's the last time Jones made a throw where you yelled, "holy shit!?" To me, that was his rookie season.
All of the arguments people make about other things affecting his game went out the window when Tyrod Taylor and Tommy DeVito played and did just as well, if not better.
The most troubling thing about Schoen's presser was when he referenced how Jones played in the preseason. Preseason? Jones played ONE DRIVE in the preseason.
I can somewhat agree with this, and by no mean should Devito be a starting QB in this league(at least not yet), and his throws have more pop than Jones.
Winston was one of the most impressive players on the white board coaches have ever seen. Winston on the field was a different story.
Winston was one of the most impressive players on the white board coaches have ever seen. Winston on the field was a different story.
It's not just processing vs live bullets. Defenses change at the snap much more frequently in the NFL. How rookie QBs will adapt to shifting defenses is a complete unknown.
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Jones will be on the Giants next year. They don't save anything by cutting him. Your view that they are married to Jones beyond that does not jive with the out Schoen has with the contract after two years. I think they like what they saw last year of Jones, but still didn't want to fully commit to him. Obviously, this year has not been a good year performance wise or injury wise.
If they are in a position to draft a QB they think is a franchise QB, they would be fools to pass on him. Similarly, if they draft a QB just for the sake of drafting a QB, they'd be fools.
Just because there is an out doesn't mean they'll use it, and I don't believe outside of the top-2 there will be any appetite at the very top of the organization (as Ranaan strongly suggested) to draft a QB in the 1st round whether he's a potential franchise QB or not.
So, a hypothetical:
The 2024 Giants with Daniel Jones as their QB win 7-8 games and are reasonably competitive. They play (as Mara says) "meaningful games in December" but narrowly miss the last playoff spot in the NFC. Jones has a decent season, something like 2022 statistically.
Any chance they don't bring him back in 2025?
Do they want to turn him into Dave Krieg?
Can you guys who want to stick with Jones anticipate ANY scenario where the Giants should move on?
Or just retirement?
Asking for a friend.
Eric: I have been accused of being a Jones guy in the past so I will give it a shot. (And just to be clear I supported resigning Jones last year in part because I see a guy with some tools who can be tough to defend, but more importantly, they simply didn't have any other reasonable options at all.
And I am 100% in on getting a QB this year because a) a 2nd neck issue and a ACL are really worrisome and you need an insurance policy and b) if you get a shot at a potential elite QB you take it when you don't have one and Jones isn't in that class.
That said Jones will be the starter next fall if he's healthy and going forward and, assuming they do draft a QB, they'll sort it out going forward. Remember any draft pick you bring has at best a 50% likelihood of being a really good player. At the same time I am still nowhere near ready to write off Jones, especially thinking of guys like Simms, who had an injury-plagued early career and didn't emerge as a franchise QB until his 6th season and Geno Smith. I am also a little shocked at the blame Jones has gotten for the team's start. He didn't play great but the supporting cast around him, especially the OL was dreadful.
In that latter context I kind of chuckle at the myriad of posters who will say, and I paraphrase here 'we just have to move on from Jones because he sucks, but I'm not sure any new QB will have any more success as the Giants OL is so bad (and it is).
Let me know if that helps your friend in any way.
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It's not just you, I'm fully expecting it.
What would Daboll have to say about this? He’s going into his make or break 3rd season with Jones, who may not even be able to play the first half of the season, and some mediocre vet backup as his QB options? That’s career suicide.
I think Schoen will use Jones’ injury status as an excuse/fig leaf to take a 1st rd QB.
Fat Wally’s thread pointing out that Schoen was reviewing the 2018 QB draft class sure indicates to me that Schoen is considering taking one.
Extending Jones removed much of my confidence in the brass in the short-term regarding the QB position. Their approach to building for 2023 was also short-sighted and I called it out last offseason. They're gonna have to earn my confidence with much, much better performance in the front office moving forward. The good parts of 2022 are long gone in the rear view mirror.
My rants are an equal opportunity employer. LOL (:-) And thank goodness BBI exists or it would be countless hours of psycho-therapy for me!
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In comment 16307068 JonC said:
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It's not just you, I'm fully expecting it.
What would Daboll have to say about this? He’s going into his make or break 3rd season with Jones, who may not even be able to play the first half of the season, and some mediocre vet backup as his QB options? That’s career suicide.
I think Schoen will use Jones’ injury status as an excuse/fig leaf to take a 1st rd QB.
Fat Wally’s thread pointing out that Schoen was reviewing the 2018 QB draft class sure indicates to me that Schoen is considering taking one.
Extending Jones removed much of my confidence in the brass in the short-term regarding the QB position. Their approach to building for 2023 was also short-sighted and I called it out last offseason. They're gonna have to earn my confidence with much, much better performance in the front office moving forward. The good parts of 2022 are long gone in the rear view mirror.
That said, Schoen might not get a better chance at a top QB prospect than in the 2024 draft. Hope he realizes and actions it accordingly. I get there are many NYG jobs on the line, and they're viewed as the priority. But, I'm damned sick of watching the weekly/yearly NYG embarrassment being put on the field.
Perhaps what Joe Schoen has to weigh is a QB in Round 1 versus several desperate needs, such as a #1 WR, at least 2 new O-Lineman, a serious EDGE rusher to complement Thibs and probably a front line DT to replace Leonard Williams.
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Yes, I am saying it is not clear that Jones would have won those games. He doesn't throw the ball down the field like DeVito. He also tends to turn the football over more.
But how would you balance that out when you factor in Jones's performance vs the Cardinals(with Daboll calling plays)? That performance showed the potential Jones has. Kafka has been terrible. You have to factor that in.
How many HCs and OCs has Jones had already? Are they all terrible?
And btw, you have to point to one half of one game in a QB's 5th year as to what his potential is then you are making a god-awful weak argument.
Perhaps what Joe Schoen has to weigh is a QB in Round 1 versus several desperate needs, such as a #1 WR, at least 2 new O-Lineman, a serious EDGE rusher to complement Thibs and probably a front line DT to replace Leonard Williams.
Jones doesn't matter in the calculus for me at all. He's going to be on the roster, he's going to get every chance to succeed, clearly. But, it's obvious the QB position needs an upgrade if they plan on chasing SB wins. I just hope Schoen does too and pulls the trigger early on a QB, if there's one they want, of course. If not, great, get the blue chips and other upgrades, and be prepared for another top 10 pick in 2025.
I'd be stunned if the Giants don't draft a QB in the first or second round. Next year is the last year for Jones.
Agree. Take the best player. If Giants get the 7th pick and they don't want to trade up because it is too rich, take the best guy. That appears to be Edge or WR for me. As long as something crazy doesn't happen like Williams or Maye falling for some late reason.
And because Jones is "probably not" as good as Patrick Mahomes.
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In comment 16307030 Eightshamrocks said:
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In comment 16307022 averagejoe said:
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Oy vey . I guess this means DeVito is a future HOF'er..lol..
And his 2022 season, winning a road playoff was a figment of our imaginations? This os where the Jobes haters go too far. You can argue he needs to be replaced sure, but to label him as a bust is a joke.
BUST
lots of QBs won a playoff game once:
Bortles
Osweiler
Trubisky
Tebow
And Jones is berrer than all of them. Let me explain to you what a bust looks like. Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russel, Dwayne Haskins, etc. Not Daniel Jones.
Why is Jones berrer than all of those QBs? Because you said so? They all meet the same criteria YOU laid out for measuring success. And they all suck, including DJ.
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and No TD Jones never even looks at him. There is no way forward with Jones at QB. He needs to be replaced. Trade back a few spots and draft Penix .
Hyatt admitted in his post game interview last week that he has needed to develop and is just now starting to. But keep on beating the dead horse about Jones.
I'm hopeful while Jones is in there, Schoen and his staff at least figure out how to self-scout better, improve their draft and UFA utilization to improve the foundation and depth of the team. Just maybe they'll get it moving in the right direction and find the right QB along the way.
The flip side is if one doesn't think Jones is the answer and/or has too many health questions now, this may be the team's best shot at replacing him given their draft position, extra 2nd round pick, and the QBs who are available.
If everyone comes out you are right... This may be our best chance to get a great to very good QB prospect. Sadly if we don't and get a Nabers we either win with DJ or we lose and get a good pick in a worse draft. So if you are going QB this is the year. I think DJ can be good with protection, but can he stay healthy? That is where I am fading on him.
Who also holds the title of Board Director.
DJ will 100% be here next year... He will most likely be our starter even if we had the #1 pick... However will he finish the year as starter.