First 10 selections:
(1) Chicago (from Carolina): Caleb Williams, QB
(2) Arizona: Marvin Harrison, Jr., WR
(3) New England: Drake Maye, QB
(4) Chicago: Joe Alt, OT
(5) Washington: Olu Fashanu, OT
(6) Giants: Malik Nabers, WR
(7) Tampa Bay: Jayden Daniels, QB
(8) Jets: Brock Bowers, TE
(9) L.A. Chargers: J.C. Latham, OT
(10) Tennessee: Dallas Turner, EDGE
I think the odds of the Giants passing on Jayden Daniels are ZERO. I wouldn't cry, however, taking Malik Nabers. The Giants have nothing on their roster that can touch him. And the Giants have no pass rushing complement to Kayvon Thibodeaux, so I would have no problem taking either Dallas Turner or Laiatu Latu.
You crazy... you clearly have never seen Nabers play or MHJ
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In comment 16306974 averagejoe said:
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and No TD Jones never even looks at him. There is no way forward with Jones at QB. He needs to be replaced. Trade back a few spots and draft Penix .
Hyatt admitted in his post game interview last week that he has needed to develop and is just now starting to. But keep on beating the dead horse about Jones.
How many snaps has DJ played with Hyatt... I would guess not that many.
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we can avoid these types of discussions in 2024, 2025, 2026, and beyond...
Can you guys who want to stick with Jones anticipate ANY scenario where the Giants should move on?
Or just retirement?
Asking for a friend.
Eric: I have been accused of being a Jones guy in the past so I will give it a shot. (And just to be clear I supported resigning Jones last year in part because I see a guy with some tools who can be tough to defend, but more importantly, they simply didn't have any other reasonable options at all.
And I am 100% in on getting a QB this year because a) a 2nd neck issue and a ACL are really worrisome and you need an insurance policy and b) if you get a shot at a potential elite QB you take it when you don't have one and Jones isn't in that class.
That said Jones will be the starter next fall if he's healthy and going forward and, assuming they do draft a QB, they'll sort it out going forward. Remember any draft pick you bring has at best a 50% likelihood of being a really good player. At the same time I am still nowhere near ready to write off Jones, especially thinking of guys like Simms, who had an injury-plagued early career and didn't emerge as a franchise QB until his 6th season and Geno Smith. I am also a little shocked at the blame Jones has gotten for the team's start. He didn't play great but the supporting cast around him, especially the OL was dreadful.
In that latter context I kind of chuckle at the myriad of posters who will say, and I paraphrase here 'we just have to move on from Jones because he sucks, but I'm not sure any new QB will have any more success as the Giants OL is so bad (and it is).
Let me know if that helps your friend in any way.
This is pretty close to my stance... well said.
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It's not just you, I'm fully expecting it.
DJ will 100% be here next year... He will most likely be our starter even if we had the #1 pick... However will he finish the year as starter.
Yeah I realize that, my point was I'm not so sure they're going to be ready and prepared to go QB high in the '24 draft.
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In comment 16307068 JonC said:
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It's not just you, I'm fully expecting it.
DJ will 100% be here next year... He will most likely be our starter even if we had the #1 pick... However will he finish the year as starter.
Yeah I realize that, my point was I'm not so sure they're going to be ready and prepared to go QB high in the '24 draft.
I agree... this is the year if everyone comes out. NIL changes things some.
You don't think a 6th year player that has been successful in a system going into his 3rd year wouldn't start? DJ will start the season most likely, so people need to be prepared. He might not finish it but he will start it.
I think you have stepped too far out on a limb. You almost make it sound like
a veteran QB never started while a rookie first round QB sat and watched for a few games? But what about Eli Manning or Patrick Mahomes or dozens of others?
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I feel like I am watching Lamar Jackson with better throwing skills when I watch Daniels. Just an amazing player. My favorite player in the draft. I don't see how his skills don't translate to the NFL. The only concerns as you alluded to are the frame. If he could add some bulk without losing explosiveness, the sky is the limit with him
Totally agree. I see a blend of Lamar (explosiveness with his turn of foot) and Stroud (release/poise).
Sounds similar to what I've said a couple of weeks ago. I made the comparison that he is a blend of Fields as a runner and Stroud as a passer (and somewhat a similar body-type). I think his running is more similar to Fields than Lamar. It's a small nuance that doesn't matter a whole lot. The both have great speed, Lamar is a juke artist that has parlayed short-area quickness/lateral agility into long runs, not that he doesn't have long speed. I think Fields and Daniels are guys that have great speed that chews up yardage when a lane opens, but not looking to break a bunch of ankles.
And frankly, I prefer the latter, because I want a pass-first QB, run when it's there. And I think Daniels does that.
One thing I found interesting is that Fields' high water season mark for rushing at OSU was 484 yards his sophomore season.
But Fields had 1143 yards rushing in 15 games last season with the Bears.
Daniels has eclipsed that 484 rushing yards mark in all of his last 3 seasons and already has 1134 rushing yards this year in 12 games. AND he did that in 135 carries...Fields as a runner in college, in his 484 rushing year he did that in 137 carries. So he's more than doubled the rushing production in 2 fewer carries. Lamar ran for 1571 yards in his sophomore year on 260 rushes his sophomore year, and 1601 yards rushing on 232 rushes his junior year.
Daniels, based on his current yards per run, would have a shade under 2000 yards rushing if he ran as often as Lamar did in his junior season. Now, it doesn't work that way, and part of this is the comparative styles of QB, where Daniels is a more advanced passer that teams must respect, particularly with Thomas Jr and Nabers running routes out there, but this all speaks very well of Daniels when you look at the whole package and what he has done.
What Daniels has done as a passer this year far exceeds anything Lamar did as a passer, and is much better than Fields in college, although Fields had a terrific Sophomore year. But even considering Fields sophomore passing line:
14 games, 238-345/67.2%, 3273 yards, 9.2 Y/A, 41-3 TD-INT
Compared to Daniels this year:
12 games, 236-327/72.2%, 3812 yards, 11.7 Y/A, 40-4 TD-INT
It's simply a masterful season from Daniels, one of the best ever. Daniels' performance outpaces the best college season of Tebow by a fairly wide margin. It's better than Tua's best season, better than DeShaun Watson's, better than Marcus Mariota's best season, who all had incredible college years.
The only QB I can point to that has a claim to better is Joe Burrow's redshirt SR season, when he threw for 5671 yards at 76.3% and 60-6 TD-INT, adding 368 yards and 5 scores on the ground.
Now you can look at these great seasons and say, well that's sort of a mixed bag. Tua has had an up and down career so far, currently up, Watson the same, Mariota and Tebow were busts.
And Burrow of course is an elite franchise QB, but he doesn't have the play style that the other QBs did in terms of not being much of a running QB like the others.
But when you combine the efficiency numbers of Daniels as a passer with the elite rushing, to me if he was somehow there, and you look at the elite release, the touch and accuracy on deep throws, this is a confluence of many factors that make him a QB that I don't think you can pass on if he were there.
Man, you make GoTerps seem like a Jones supporter. I've never seen someone so anti-Jones.
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A game unless that guy is hurt.
You don't think a 6th year player that has been successful in a system going into his 3rd year wouldn't start? DJ will start the season most likely, so people need to be prepared. He might not finish it but he will start it.
No. They installed more vertical concepts and he failed. If they draft a first round QB he's playing, probably in game 1 but definitely by game 6. The Jones era will be over.
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In comment 16307618 ajr2456 said:
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A game unless that guy is hurt.
You don't think a 6th year player that has been successful in a system going into his 3rd year wouldn't start? DJ will start the season most likely, so people need to be prepared. He might not finish it but he will start it.
No. They installed more vertical concepts and he failed. If they draft a first round QB he's playing, probably in game 1 but definitely by game 6. The Jones era will be over.
Wrong again... he had the worst pass protection so going down field was not possible. If DJ had as much time as DeVito is getting you would see more down field success. Having AT and JMS come back is a big part of it, but I would also say Pugh has been a great addition. No way Jones doesn't start next year and if he is playing well they won't bench him. It will turn into Alex Smith and Mahomes. If he doesn't play well it will turn into Eli and DJ.
Which I don't believe will stop them from starting him. If he is playing well and we are winning they won't bench him. If he is average, worse than average, or we are losing he will be benched if we drafted a QB. So it is fair to say but not for the beginning of the year... we are running this back next year.
I’ll let him speak for himself, but based on his last post there is no way to come to such a conclusion. Was there a prior post of his that leads you to such a conclusion?
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is about keeping Jones away from another injury, and any potential chance to trade him and get the contract remainder off the books.
I’ll let him speak for himself, but based on his last post there is no way to come to such a conclusion. Was there a prior post of his that leads you to such a conclusion?
Yes.
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A game unless that guy is hurt.
Man, you make GoTerps seem like a Jones supporter. I've never seen someone so anti-Jones.
Yawn. I’m not anti Jones, im pro good QB play. If the Giants take a first round QB Jones isn’t starting for a number of reasons. This is one of the problems, any circitism or wildness to move on from Jones is seen as being a “hater”
1) The injury guarantees. If the Giants are taking a QB, they’ve decided Jones isn’t their guy, and they plan to cut him at the first available moment. They’re not going to risk the 2025 injury guarantees kicking in if he was to suffer another serious injury.
2) The best way to not end up in the current situation is to find out what you think of your first round QB as quickly as possible, this way you’re not in limbo when it comes to his fifth year option. The Giants will likely and should want to see 34 games from the new QB and have an idea by the end of year two if he can be the guy or not.
3) The Giants will in all likely hood have a better roster next year. There’s no reason not to see the rookie behind it.
4) Daboll has shown he can adapt and scale back the offense and still be successful. There’s no reason for the rookie to sit and learn, you can slowly expand the offense as the rookie hits thresholds. Sure that comes with some bumps in the road, but the Giants aren’t winning a Super Bowl next year with Jones. What’s the big deal if you go 5-11 or 8-9?
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In comment 16307618 ajr2456 said:
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A game unless that guy is hurt.
Man, you make GoTerps seem like a Jones supporter. I've never seen someone so anti-Jones.
Yawn. I’m not anti Jones, im pro good QB play. If the Giants take a first round QB Jones isn’t starting for a number of reasons. This is one of the problems, any circitism or wildness to move on from Jones is seen as being a “hater”
1) The injury guarantees. If the Giants are taking a QB, they’ve decided Jones isn’t their guy, and they plan to cut him at the first available moment. They’re not going to risk the 2025 injury guarantees kicking in if he was to suffer another serious injury.
2) The best way to not end up in the current situation is to find out what you think of your first round QB as quickly as possible, this way you’re not in limbo when it comes to his fifth year option. The Giants will likely and should want to see 34 games from the new QB and have an idea by the end of year two if he can be the guy or not.
3) The Giants will in all likely hood have a better roster next year. There’s no reason not to see the rookie behind it.
4) Daboll has shown he can adapt and scale back the offense and still be successful. There’s no reason for the rookie to sit and learn, you can slowly expand the offense as the rookie hits thresholds. Sure that comes with some bumps in the road, but the Giants aren’t winning a Super Bowl next year with Jones. What’s the big deal if you go 5-11 or 8-9?
I hear you and other about injury guarantees, but this is major WISHFUL thinking.
Veteran preference is real.
That said, I think the most likely scenario is that DJ will not have been healthy enough to get reps early, possibly not healthy enough to go week 1, and if you do have a QB drafted in the top 10 that has played all camp and preseason and gotten all those 1st team reps, then it will be the rookie starting, and then it's all up to his performance and health as to whether or not DJ sees the field as a Giant again.
Veteran preference is real.
That said, I think the most likely scenario is that DJ will not have been healthy enough to get reps early, possibly not healthy enough to go week 1, and if you do have a QB drafted in the top 10 that has played all camp and preseason and gotten all those 1st team reps, then it will be the rookie starting, and then it's all up to his performance and health as to whether or not DJ sees the field as a Giant again.
If we draft a 1st round QB, a clock starts ticking. He is on his own timeline, irrespective of Jones' performance. When the rookie is ready to take over, he does. He doesn't have to win the job. He just needs to play well enough to run a functional offense.
It is logical to you... but in the NFL they want to win and DJ will give them the best chance to win. That isn't even thinking about the fact they are play him 40 mil and will want to prove the deal. He will start and if he plays well and we are winning he will continue to start.
This board is far more bullish on Daniels than observers and mock drafters. I'm not saying they're right, but ask yourself why. What are his deficits?
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Its logical
It is logical to you... but in the NFL they want to win and DJ will give them the best chance to win. That isn't even thinking about the fact they are play him 40 mil and will want to prove the deal. He will start and if he plays well and we are winning he will continue to start.
Dude.. we're a pathetic team with Jones. We're not the 2018 Chiefs.
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Its logical
It is logical to you... but in the NFL they want to win and DJ will give them the best chance to win. That isn't even thinking about the fact they are play him 40 mil and will want to prove the deal. He will start and if he plays well and we are winning he will continue to start.
How is what I said wishful thinking but thinking Jones coming off an ACL gives them the best chance to win isn’t?
They haven’t won much with Jones, how are you so sure he gives them the better chance to win? Because he’s more experienced?
There's a long way to go and a lot of discussion to be had when talking about non-QB prospects, but if you watch Turner...the one word that comes to mind when watching him play is "violent". He is really powerful, tremendous edge-setter, and terrific burst and pursuit. He bends bigger OTs back with regularity. And when he gets to the tackle, whether it's a RB or the QB, he delivers punishing tackles, just violent tackles.
You put him on the other side of Thibodeaux with Dex in the middle, and it's going to be a serious problem for offenses. It would really propel the defensive side of the ball into one of the best in the NFL, I really believe that.
So a scenario of Turner in the first, 2nd round QB, and a 2nd round receiver, say Emeka Egbuka and Bo Nix, just as a hypothetical, I'm not going to be pissed.
Luke Easterling has them going Daniels, Jordan Morgan and Tez Walker
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In comment 16307683 ajr2456 said:
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Its logical
It is logical to you... but in the NFL they want to win and DJ will give them the best chance to win. That isn't even thinking about the fact they are play him 40 mil and will want to prove the deal. He will start and if he plays well and we are winning he will continue to start.
Dude.. we're a pathetic team with Jones. We're not the 2018 Chiefs.
Dude... This is pretty normal. Brees/Rivers, Warner/Eli, AlexSmtih/Mahomes, Eli/DJ, AndyDalton/JustinFields,JoeFlacco/LamarJackson, Garoppolo/TreyLance, etc... While more and more QBs start game 1, teams with playable QBs no matter how high the other QB was drafted usually ease them in.
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with Daniels still on the board, I will break things. It will be a completely idiotic move in every way.
This board is far more bullish on Daniels than observers and mock drafters. I'm not saying they're right, but ask yourself why. What are his deficits?
None of any of that matters. Didn't matter when it came to Darnold (assumed #1 overall for a year plus by all those people, went after Mayfield), didn't matter.
He has as good a chance (maybe better) as Williams or Maye to go #1 overall.
In terms of his deficits, it's that he is a bit of a one year wonder, although it's not like he was bad last year, but didn't have the big passing TD totals like he has had this year (17-3 TD-INT ratio). Still a 68% plus passer last season. And obviously and the biggest concern is his slight build. But the positives, IMO, far outweigh those concerns. We'll have to see what he comes in at in terms of height-weight at the combine. He's listed at 185 lbs, which isn't a number that should be trusted, but if he comes in at the combine at that weight, it's a legitimate concern. I'd want to see him at at least 200 lbs.
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In comment 16307683 ajr2456 said:
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Its logical
It is logical to you... but in the NFL they want to win and DJ will give them the best chance to win. That isn't even thinking about the fact they are play him 40 mil and will want to prove the deal. He will start and if he plays well and we are winning he will continue to start.
How is what I said wishful thinking but thinking Jones coming off an ACL gives them the best chance to win isn’t?
They haven’t won much with Jones, how are you so sure he gives them the better chance to win? Because he’s more experienced?
Jones will be back earlier... there isn't many other harder working QBs in the league. He will make a good recovery because that is who he is. Yes he has a ton of experience in this offense, in this league, and much like Eli when DJ is here he will start the season.
I mean this argument is kind of ridiculous. They have to draft a QB in the first or maybe second for this to even be an issue. Are you sold they will? I mean they will take one as some point, but high first?
Yeah Jon, given the quality of receivers that I think will be available in round 2, I'd take Turner over MHJ. I think in terms of team impact, it's similar, maybe greater. There won't be a guy like Turner at Edge in round 2. And there won't be a guy like MHJ either, but you might still get a good #1 type of receiver.
Turner is a manimal.
Yes it does... physical therapy and the ability to rebuild strength and function in your knee matters.
Latu looks good also but his medicals are going to be huge and will probably drop some.
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Doesn’t make your ligaments heal faster
Yes it does... physical therapy and the ability to rebuild strength and function in your knee matters.
And that still doesn’t guarantee you’ll heal faster. That’s just not how it works
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I'd pick Turner, happily.
Latu looks good also but his medicals are going to be huge and will probably drop some.
Not seen alot of him so far, but what I did see he's long and moves well, but I didn't see much twitch, explosion, burst, or violence.
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In comment 16307725 ajr2456 said:
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Doesn’t make your ligaments heal faster
Yes it does... physical therapy and the ability to rebuild strength and function in your knee matters.
And that still doesn’t guarantee you’ll heal faster. That’s just not how it works
You can't guarantee anything. That is ridiculous. Would you prefer he will more than likely be back? Does that make you feel better?
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In comment 16307733 JonC said:
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I'd pick Turner, happily.
Latu looks good also but his medicals are going to be huge and will probably drop some.
Not seen alot of him so far, but what I did see he's long and moves well, but I didn't see much twitch, explosion, burst, or violence.
Oh you need to watch more of him. I watch a ton of Pac-12 football. He is legit. Fast, explosive, closing, power... Against USC you see him blow by a OG/OT and also power through the RT and RB for sacks. That game is a good example of who he is. If he didn't have the Washington medicals he would be top 5-10 lock.
So you think vertical concepts take longer to run than horizontal concepts?
When a WR runs a 10 yard drag route, do you think he only runs 10 yards?
The excuses are losing their oomph.
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In comment 16307735 Amtoft said:
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In comment 16307725 ajr2456 said:
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Doesn’t make your ligaments heal faster
Yes it does... physical therapy and the ability to rebuild strength and function in your knee matters.
And that still doesn’t guarantee you’ll heal faster. That’s just not how it works
You can't guarantee anything. That is ridiculous. Would you prefer he will more than likely be back? Does that make you feel better?
A good way to damage your own credibility might be to suggest that being a hard worker makes your ligaments heal faster.
Is there anything that Daniel Jones's magical work ethic can't do?!
Other than be good at football, of course.
You can't guarantee anything. That is ridiculous. Would you prefer he will more than likely be back? Does that make you feel better?
Again, you’re guaranteeing that he’ll be back. Why are you allowed to say what you think but mine is nonsense and wishful thinking? Until he’s back on the field the Giants will be operating like he won’t be, Schoen himself said it the other day. That’s how I’m operating as well. You’re guaranteeing that Jones gives the Giants the best chance to win next year over a rookie, when that is far from a known right now. He didn’t even give them a better chance to win over Tommy DeVito this year.
I gave a logical post that listed four reasons why Jones probably won’t start again if they take a first round QB. If you want to chalk that up to wishful thinking and hating Jones, that’s your prerogative. If you don’t think the injury guarantees are going to be a factor if they have a replacement on the roster you haven’t been paying attention to he NFL. If you’ve moved on from Jones by taking a first round QB, you’re doing it with the belief you could compete for a postseason spot with the new QB by year 2, therefore he needs as much experience as possible before.
If you want to clutch onto the chance of Jones still being an option, be my guest.
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Wrong again... he had the worst pass protection so going down field was not possible. If DJ had as much time as DeVito is getting you would see more down field success.
So you think vertical concepts take longer to run than horizontal concepts?
When a WR runs a 10 yard drag route, do you think he only runs 10 yards?
The excuses are losing their oomph.
There's this belief on BBI that you can't get time to throw to a guy like Hyatt deep because no time.
That's just not true. We see other QBs do it. You can throw 40 yards downfield while only holding the ball in that low 2 second range from snap to throw. Happens all the time. With the flight time of the ball, you can get balls deep with the receiver running under it. Maybe not the perfect example, because it's just a 20 yard throw, but here's DeVito to Hyatt. Look at how long this takes to get the ball out:
https://youtu.be/0Yy9-tI7UZU?t=17
But I posted a while back of other QBs throwing much deeper shots getting the ball out in that 2 second timeframe.
Sounds like you are all aboard the JD Express... ;)
Sounds like you are all aboard the JD Express... ;)
As of now, absolutely. I really try to not get married to any player before the process plays out, to include the combine and pro days. We still have more football to play.
We still have information to collect. More game footage to watch.
But I see a player with this all around toolset...obviously the runs are impressive. But what I didn't expect to be so pleasantly surprised with in watching Daniels is the touch and accuracy he has on all levels of the field. And obviously that release of his is so good.
The problem is that we may not get the opportunity to draft him. I think it's not out of the question he goes 1.1, and I think that has only become likelier over the last month.
We don't know how these teams at the top are going to stack their boards.
And the other thing is that if it's not Daniels, but Williams or Maye, I have more worries about bust potential with both players, tbh.
And it's a possibility that none of the three are available for us without a trade up. So we have to be open to the possibility that it's a non-QB in round 1, or at least the top of round 1. I hope Schoen can find a guy later in those scenarios that can turn into something special. One of these other guys probably will pan out. I can't affect any of it so I'll just be an interested observer, do my draft homework that I love to do every year, so I have my rooting interests all in order when the draft comes around, and to contribute here in the lead up.
Even if it doesn't go the way I want it to, I'm going to be fully invested in the Schoen-Daboll rebuild project, given enough time, I do believe they will be successful.
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You can't guarantee anything. That is ridiculous. Would you prefer he will more than likely be back? Does that make you feel better?
Again, you’re guaranteeing that he’ll be back. Why are you allowed to say what you think but mine is nonsense and wishful thinking? Until he’s back on the field the Giants will be operating like he won’t be, Schoen himself said it the other day. That’s how I’m operating as well. You’re guaranteeing that Jones gives the Giants the best chance to win next year over a rookie, when that is far from a known right now. He didn’t even give them a better chance to win over Tommy DeVito this year.
I gave a logical post that listed four reasons why Jones probably won’t start again if they take a first round QB. If you want to chalk that up to wishful thinking and hating Jones, that’s your prerogative. If you don’t think the injury guarantees are going to be a factor if they have a replacement on the roster you haven’t been paying attention to he NFL. If you’ve moved on from Jones by taking a first round QB, you’re doing it with the belief you could compete for a postseason spot with the new QB by year 2, therefore he needs as much experience as possible before.
If you want to clutch onto the chance of Jones still being an option, be my guest.
I mean that is fair enough. You are right he may not be back from injury and he may not start. My opinion is no more informed than yours so I see what you are saying. To me Jones starting the beginning of next year is almost a lock. To you it isn't. I guess we will see.