Pick any QB you want. Pick the best QB in NFL history if you want, and tell me what our record would be if we had him at the beginning of this season, instead of Jones.
My guess is that he'd be on IR by now.
IMHO, getting a "franchise QB" should not be our first priority in the next draft.
Who on this site has been talking about this team in anything other than derogatory terms all year?
Nobody underestimated the team. Many overestimated Jones.
But, I'm not upset that JS gave Jones the contract he did.
Coming off last year, also factoring in alternatives, and then looking at Herbert's contract, DJ's is "reasonable", especially, because its essentially, a 2 year deal.
It doesn't prevent Schoen from picking a QB this year if that's how he wants to play it.
Why are we speaking in hypotheticals or extrapolating on 1 quarter of football against one of the worst teams in the NFL.
Move on.
Do people not realize how bad Jones was this year? And please god stop pointing to the Arizona second half or even the Minny game last year? How about looking at the rest of the 60 games this guy has played ( with the majority of them being poorly).
People also need to stop describing his contract as "reasonable". It's a terrible deal that will severely hurt this team for 3 seasons. Stop sugar coating it.
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It's pretty clear SO MANY People underestimate how truly bad this whole team was the first half of this season, including the coaching.
Who on this site has been talking about this team in anything other than derogatory terms all year?
Nobody underestimated the team. Many overestimated Jones.
Really? Who? You mean Schoen and Daboll? Who know WAY more than you or I or any other self-inflated BBI'er do? And also know more than the people who disappeared from the site (or at least stopped their chatter for a while) after they signed him? I think most people were pretty pragmatic. We had a pretty good season with a pretty weak team with DJ at the helm. I have not seen more than 1 or 2 people on this site over-inflate what DJ is or was. But I have seen plenty not give the guy any credit AT ALL. Some people just put more blame on the overall team than just the QB (you know, like you do). What happens if Daboll actually makes better decisions preseason? You know like play the fucking starters for more than 5 minutes over 3 full games? Actually define and play a STARTING OL TOGETHER in Preseason?? Keep Tyre Philips instead of Peart as the swing but then use FUCKING EZEUDU at LT when Thomas goes down? Keep an actual PR instead of Cole Beasley or Sterling Sheperd? On and On?
I will reiterate - DJ is likely only on this team for 2024, especially if we select a QB high. And If they have conviction on a guy - DO IT. And if the team doesn't IMPROVE I'll probably defend that guy the same way I defend DJ based on the overall suckitude of this team.
We are not competing with Philly/SF/Dallas (Or even Seattle for fucks sake) until we improve this team, ESPECIALLY on the lines. OL play is not NOT good enough to compete (YET) with the top 7 or 8 teams in this league. If you think it is, good for you. I 100% disagree.
Give me a small break already with this. Some people like DJ better than you BFD. Give it a rest already. I don't see anyone claiming the guy is a top tier QB. You have always shit on QBs that you don't personally like. You did the same fucking thing years ago with Collins. Collins was another QB good enough to win a Super Bowl with when he had decent OL play. And don't bring up the shit vs. Baltimore. NOBODY was beating the Ravens in the Super Bowl that year. Especially not with a cobbled together OL. I don't think Jones is as good as Collins (as a passer anyway) but he is certainly not the stinking mess that you make him out to be.
Geezus I am so tired of these conversations every day on every other thread about DJ. People are in for a rude awakening if (when) we draft another QB and the OL play doesn't improve (more than it has to date this year) ESPECIALLY against Dallas or Philly, OR the defensive play for that matter. Anyone with a decent offense that actually runs the ball will eat this defense alive until we get more ER and way WAY better overall play against the run.
But but but Devito just beat 2 teams as bad as we are! And scored 24 points vs WFT that just traded away their 2 best defensive lineman! He must be the bestest NY Giants QB!! The stats say so! LOL
Ooohhh good one!
Whether you admit it or not, Collins was a very good QB. He became less than he was after Romanowski broke his jaw, but he was still very good. Not elite, no, but still very good, and certainly good enough to win a SB in the right situation.
Daniel Jones cannot fail, he can only be failed.
[quote] I won’t even take the best of all time. I’ll take Josh Allen just to make the point.
With Josh Allen, I believe we are at least 7-5 and solidly in the playoff picture.
Sorry, gotta disagree with you there. He's 6-6 with the Bills.
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would have this team in a wild card spot. His line was atrocious that year also and he had the best season of his career. Also the Giants had the worst running game and one of the worst defenses that season.
Fans forget all of this.
Sorry, That line was light years ahead of this OL. This line is historically bad. Also many forget that 2011 team got a lot Healthier as they got to the end of the season. The run game kicked into gear and so did the D. Osi came back and Tuck woke up.
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We should have drafted Gallery to help him out.
Ooohhh good one!
Whether you admit it or not, Collins was a very good QB. He became less than he was after Romanowski broke his jaw, but he was still very good. Not elite, no, but still very good, and certainly good enough to win a SB in the right situation.
I called for the Giants to move on from Collins in 2003. Go take a look at his career from 2003 onward. If you want me to save you the research, I will...it's not good.
But hey maybe Collins will come out of retirement and prove you right that he can win a Super Bowl. He and Jones do have the same chance of winning one, so who knows.
The Jones stuff is strange. I never see anyone factor in that both AT and SB were out for three of the games he played.
Just getting SB back was a huge factor. Against Buffalo the RB's ran 27 times for 110 yards. They were 34 runs to 26 passes heading into the last drive. Three prior games.
SF: 9c/22y No SB/AT Tynes said worst performance in 30 yrs.
Seattle: 18c/38y No SB/AT
Miami: 22c/46y No SB/AT
Schoen actually mentioned this a bit yesterday.
When he finished up in KC, their OL was at best, mediocre. He was still VERY productive.
A lot of the putrid offense is on Jones.
Top notch QBs can make their OLs look a LOT better. Its happened for decades.
First it was better now it’s a lot better. Of course when you have Jerry Rice things are easier.
Given Gettleman was on an island with his selection in 2019, and his conviction so great for Daniel Jones, shouldn't these same people who defend Jones view Gettleman as a maverick GM who took the beating for landing the NYG franchise QB?
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you put Montana back there, where he was using the short passing game and getting rid of the ball quickly, the offense would be light years better.
When he finished up in KC, their OL was at best, mediocre. He was still VERY productive.
A lot of the putrid offense is on Jones.
Top notch QBs can make their OLs look a LOT better. Its happened for decades.
First it was better now it’s a lot better. Of course when you have Jerry Rice things are easier.
When was Jerry Rice with Montana in KC?
Funny but Daniel Jones arrival coincides with (or happens in the middle of) the departure of a 2 time SB champ QB, GM and coach turmoil and some really bad 1st round picks. This probably has skewed the feelings towards him on both sides. Fans desperate for a winner and Fans vilifying anything to do with the team.
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In comment 16307160 Dave on the UWS said:
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you put Montana back there, where he was using the short passing game and getting rid of the ball quickly, the offense would be light years better.
When he finished up in KC, their OL was at best, mediocre. He was still VERY productive.
A lot of the putrid offense is on Jones.
Top notch QBs can make their OLs look a LOT better. Its happened for decades.
First it was better now it’s a lot better. Of course when you have Jerry Rice things are easier.
When was Jerry Rice with Montana in KC?
Also, Jerry Rice arrived after Montana had already won 2 SBs and accounted for 114 TDs in 63 NFL starts.
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you put Montana back there, where he was using the short passing game and getting rid of the ball quickly, the offense would be light years better.
When he finished up in KC, their OL was at best, mediocre. He was still VERY productive.
A lot of the putrid offense is on Jones.
Top notch QBs can make their OLs look a LOT better. Its happened for decades.
First it was better now it’s a lot better. Of course when you have Jerry Rice things are easier.
Exaclty. The Anti Jones crowd never acknowledges that Jones played these games without Thomas and Barkley. Add that to Kafka's terrible season calling plays, and there you have it. News flash-the guys they had backing up Thomas and Barley stink. Matt Brieda and Ezeudu are practice squad level players. How convienent this is forgotten.
The Jones stuff is strange. I never see anyone factor in that both AT and SB were out for three of the games he played.
Just getting SB back was a huge factor. Against Buffalo the RB's ran 27 times for 110 yards. They were 34 runs to 26 passes heading into the last drive. Three prior games.
SF: 9c/22y No SB/AT Tynes said worst performance in 30 yrs.
Seattle: 18c/38y No SB/AT
Miami: 22c/46y No SB/AT
Schoen actually mentioned this a bit yesterday.
You get your franchise QB when the opportunity presents itself, not when the OL is fixed.
Sean, using the Colts as an example is not the best idea. Where s Andrew Luck, he got beaten into an early retirement.
But I agree, if you need a quarterback, you strike while he iron is hot.
But keep in mind, First round quarterbacks, even top 10 is about a 50% hit rate
If Giants pick out of top 5, from what I ve been hearing on some podcasts the league does not have Daniel’s, Penni’s, or Nix as high first round picks
Reaching for a quarterback is probably not going to happen, Schoen is too smart for that
Players bust at the top of the draft at all positions. No pick is safer than another. The idea is that talented QB go early, so if you need one and you are picking early, you have to take one if need matches availability.
Sounds like you need to find better podcasts. Barring a catastrophic injury (or some other unforeseen development that tanks his value), Jayden Daniels will be a top-10 pick, book it. He may be in consideration for 1.1.
Haha nice.
Although I think with Kenneth Dorsey, he'd have a telepathetic connection to Daboll.
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would have this team in a wild card spot. His line was atrocious that year also and he had the best season of his career. Also the Giants had the worst running game and one of the worst defenses that season.
Fans forget all of this.
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QB when he had a running game and the OL matched up with the defensive front. He struggled with pressure. You needed a 2007-08 Giants OL to deal with that Ravens team. Then a big game HC/QB like Eli and TC.
The Jones stuff is strange. I never see anyone factor in that both AT and SB were out for three of the games he played.
Just getting SB back was a huge factor. Against Buffalo the RB's ran 27 times for 110 yards. They were 34 runs to 26 passes heading into the last drive. Three prior games.
SF: 9c/22y No SB/AT Tynes said worst performance in 30 yrs.
Seattle: 18c/38y No SB/AT
Miami: 22c/46y No SB/AT
Schoen actually mentioned this a bit yesterday.
Exaclty. The Anti Jones crowd never acknowledges that Jones played these games without Thomas and Barkley. Add that to Kafka's terrible season calling plays, and there you have it. News flash-the guys they had backing up Thomas and Barley stink. Matt Brieda and Ezeudu are practice squad level players. How convienent this is forgotten.
No explain his poor play for the other games across 5 seasons and his college career.
It's never his fault, he just needs more help and better coaching right? What other young QB has to deal with injuries and non perfect situations!!!
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In comment 16307170 Jay on the Island said:
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would have this team in a wild card spot. His line was atrocious that year also and he had the best season of his career. Also the Giants had the worst running game and one of the worst defenses that season.
Fans forget all of this.
Too many are remembering the last few years of Eli, which saw, perhaps, the worst OLs he'd played behind and an aging body. But, Eli in his prime would have this team in playoff contention. I firmly believe that.
Not with the OL as it was in the first few games. No way.
Jones dropped back 26 times and was sacked 6 times. %=23%.
Taylor dropped back 13 times and was sacked 1 time. %= 8%.
Same game. Taylor if anything was at a disadvantage, because he was playing from way behind so the Dolphins could just pass rush.
Jones is a victim of circumstances my ass. He’s a big part of the problem.
But i do not agree with you on the basic premise
Having a very good QB solves a lot of issues that are manifested in the surrounding talent. A very good QB brings out the best in the talent around him. Jones has just not done that this year, and other QBs of presumed lesser talent have. thats pretty damming.
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In comment 16307191 Eric from BBI said:
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In comment 16307170 Jay on the Island said:
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would have this team in a wild card spot. His line was atrocious that year also and he had the best season of his career. Also the Giants had the worst running game and one of the worst defenses that season.
Fans forget all of this.
Too many are remembering the last few years of Eli, which saw, perhaps, the worst OLs he'd played behind and an aging body. But, Eli in his prime would have this team in playoff contention. I firmly believe that.
Not with the OL as it was in the first few games. No way.
The Giants don't fall behind 20-0 in Arizona with 76 yards of offense in the first half - so there's no need to rally.
At minimum, they also win the SEA/BUF/NYJ games.
That puts them at 7-5.
Sorry, but I don't think any QB would have made a difference in the Seattle game with the offensive line the Giants had on the field.
Got drafted on the strength of a 16TD, 9INT Senior year.
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With a better/great QB:
The Giants don't fall behind 20-0 in Arizona with 76 yards of offense in the first half - so there's no need to rally.
At minimum, they also win the SEA/BUF/NYJ games.
That puts them at 7-5.
Sorry, but I don't think any QB would have made a difference in the Seattle game with the offensive line the Giants had on the field.
Devon Witherspoon didn't give the scathing critique about "any QB." It wasn't "we know that any QB likes to stare down their primary read."
You guys need better material - the shit your hero gives you to work with makes you sound like sycophantic idiots.
[quote] In comment 16307204 rsjem1979 said:
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With a better/great QB:
The Giants don't fall behind 20-0 in Arizona with 76 yards of offense in the first half - so there's no need to rally.
At minimum, they also win the SEA/BUF/NYJ games.
That puts them at 7-5.
Sorry, but I don't think any QB would have made a difference in the Seattle game with the offensive line the Giants had on the field. [/quote
I’m sorry you haven’t watched enough NFL, past or present, to know what actual good QB play looks like even under pressure. Recognizing a telegraphed corner blitz and hitting a hot receiver instead of fumbling, then not throwing a pick-6, at minimum, would have put the Giants in good position to win that game.
You people deserve to have Jones forever. The problem is that punishes everyone.
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In comment 16307160 Dave on the UWS said:
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you put Montana back there, where he was using the short passing game and getting rid of the ball quickly, the offense would be light years better.
When he finished up in KC, their OL was at best, mediocre. He was still VERY productive.
A lot of the putrid offense is on Jones.
Top notch QBs can make their OLs look a LOT better. Its happened for decades.
First it was better now it’s a lot better. Of course when you have Jerry Rice things are easier.
Exaclty. The Anti Jones crowd never acknowledges that Jones played these games without Thomas and Barkley. Add that to Kafka's terrible season calling plays, and there you have it. News flash-the guys they had backing up Thomas and Barley stink. Matt Brieda and Ezeudu are practice squad level players. How convienent this is forgotten.
It's not forgotten. It's just appropriately diminished.