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Look Ahead positive and negative focus

jvm52106 : 11/29/2023 11:49 am
The quarterback issues, the draft in 2024, the salary cap, coaches fighting (or not fighting) and of course injuries because it wouldn't be the Giants if we didn't have a ton of injuries. That said I am hopeful on multiple fronts (call them positive result fronts and even negative results with positive outcomes).

Positive Outcome possibilities:

Well, we are currently 4-8 (should really be 5-7 or even 6-6 if we close out the Bills and Jets games). There is a very interesting parallel to last year.

We started the year off 6-2 before hitting the bye week. Our schedule/record looked like this:

@ Ten 21-20 W
vs Car 19-16 w
vs Dal 16-23 L (Dallas played Cooper Rush at QB)
vs Chi 20-12 W
@ GB (Eng) 27-22 W
vs Balt 24-20 W
@ Sea 13-27 L

BYE

We won a number of close games (Ten misses a FG, Carolina turns the ball over multiple times early, Chicago can't get out of its way, GB blows a lead, Baltimore turns the ball over late multiple times) and we were handled by Dallas and Seattle.


This year we played a much better group of teams early- Dallas, SF, Miami, Buffalo and Seattle. We lost close games to the Jets and Bills. Had we won those two games (and in 2022 we probably do) we would probably be 4-4 through 8 games.


2022 through those first 8 games Daniel Jones had six TD passes. SIX TD PASSES but we won 6 of 8 games.

This year (though he missed three of those 8 games) he had TWO TD passes..

2022 and 6 games of 2023 Jones has a total of 17 TD passes.

The schedule for the back 9 this year has far less competition than the front 9 did. Our last 9 games of 2023:

@ LV 6-30 L
@ Dal 17-49 L
@ Was 31-19 W
vs NE 10-7 W
vs GB
@ NO
@ Phil
VS Rams
vs Phil

Last year we finished the last 9 games at 3-5-1 and ended the season at 9-7-1.

We have a shot to finish the last 9 games here at say 5-4 or even 6-3.. A 6-3 finish would give this team 8 wins (and honestly we should have beaten the Jets and quite possibly the Bills) and in many ways be basically the same team we were last year.

There are a few things to watch for over these last 5 games. As I mentioned earlier Daniel Jones had 6 TD passes in the first 8 games last year and then 2 TD passes this year (though he did miss a few of those 8 games). Tommy Devito already has 7 TD passes in 5 games played and 3 games started.

If Devito throws even 1 TD per game (on average) over the last 5 games he will have 12 TD passes in 10 games played and 8 games started. He already has 5 more TD passes than DJ had this season and 1 more than DJ had in our first 8 games of 2022 (where the team was 6-2).
If Devito somehow adds 10 TD passes over the last 5 games he will throw as many TD Passes in 10 games (8 starts) what Jones had thrown over his last 22 games.. It doesn't matter what you think about DJ or the Giants etc., that is one stat that truly says exactly what it means, DJ just does not create TD's through the air the way we need a QB to. The argument is over there. We are getting production through the air (not setting the world on fire by any means) at a much better clip with Devito than we did with Jones.

I think it is safe and reasonable now to say that our 6-2 record last year was from a solid game plan, some good bounces and the dual threat of Jones running or Barkley running.. With Devito you can already see a difference in the way the passing game functions. Before anyone starts attacking me, I am not saying Devito is as knowledgeable about the offense or even is better at running the offense than Jones is, right now. However, it is obvious that we get more ATTACK with Devito- better long ball placement, better take your shot at the endzone placement than we did with Jones. At the same time Devito, for all is inexperience and lack of "physical gifts size wise", hasn't turned the ball over much either. He does get sacked a lot but that is more inexperience than anything else.

The Giants may have stumbled on a legit back up QB or they could have a Brock Purdy type on their hands. These last 5 games are huge for him and quite frankly for the Giants as well. Devito's story is nice, cute and a bright spot in an ugly gray season but, it could become a lot more if he continues to develop. *Nobody should be planning the Giants future on Devito right now but, there is nothing stopping him from changing that situation. If Devito goes 3-2 over the last 5 games or 4-1 and throws 10 TD passes with minimal ints, the narrative could easily change. If those numbers are even better, say 12-13 TD passes over 5 games and the Giants win 4 of them then look out now. (which leads me to my next item below).

Giants have 5 games left and most fans are looking to the 2024 offseason to see who we sign, who we fire and where and then who we end up drafting. First things first is we need to finish this season. If the Giants can go 4-1 these last 5 games and finish 8-9, then suddenly a spot in the playoffs isn't out of the question.

Now, I know most fans go we suck, we don't belong there etc.. BUT, making the playoffs two years in a row would be HUGE! We have not had back to back playoff appearances since 07/08. You cannot change the course of a franchise off draft position alone, losers lose.. The way to change a culture of losing is make the playoffs not as a one time fluke but consistently.

There are a lot of ways this team can get in if the chips/cards fall the right way. Right now Seattle is falling apart (and should lose again tomorrow night- which helps us in two ways). Minnesota looked very beatable again and now that the shine is off the Dobbs trophy things are looking a bit bleak. Some of the other teams trying to climb into the playoffs face us over these last 5 games- GB, LAR and NO and we could put a dagger into their playoff hopes. That leaves us with Philly who to me is playing on borrowed time. They have injuries and Hurts, as well as he is playing is bothered by that knee. SF could put a physical beating on those guys this week and quite frankly if you take Hurts out of the equation their whole offense will fall apart. Something to watch there.

Now, negatively focused but with positive results would also be seeing Devito play better and improve but the Gmen still lose 3 or 4 of the last 5 games, cementing a higher draft pick. I prefer the winning path but unlike previous years I will not be upset if they do not win as we started so poorly this is where we are. Now if we do end up losing quite a few to end the year then let's hope the Seahawks continue losing too. That would make our 2nd pick a bit nicer.

FYI- Things outside of our GMEN to watch and root for:

SF to beat up on Philly physically
Seattle to keep losing
Kyler Murray to play better and better for the Cards, taking them out of the QB draft pool.
Justin Fields to play well enough for Chicago to win a few games (especially if we lose a bunch).
Sam Howell to play well for Washington, stealing a win here and there and moving them down the draft board.
New England to somehow win a game or two, as they are definitely in the QB hunt draft wise.
Jets to continue to lose including to Atlanta and Washington.


There is much to watch for and possibly enjoy these last 5 games. Let's go Giants. Good or Bad results on gameday will still have positives for us moving forward. I am just hoping the good results create the positive but either way there are positives to be had.







I appreciate the time and effort put into this  
Fat Wally : 11/29/2023 12:41 pm : link
the one thing i would mention, is that Jones scored a bunch of TDs on the ground last year that DeVitto doesn't. I would at least add them in to his totals.

Jones made more happen with his feet and that allowed our offense to overcome the shortcomings in the passing game.
RE: I appreciate the time and effort put into this  
nochance : 11/29/2023 1:14 pm : link
In comment 16307395 Fat Wally said:
Quote:
the one thing i would mention, is that Jones scored a bunch of TDs on the ground last year that DeVitto doesn't. I would at least add them in to his totals.

Jones made more happen with his feet and that allowed our offense to overcome the shortcomings in the passing game.



Don't compare Divito to Jones. He got most of his offense in Garbage time with Dallas and faced 2 horrible teams playing at their worst (and possibly tanking).
Agree. The hype on Davito is fun....but when you boil it down  
GiantBlue : 11/29/2023 1:28 pm : link
to the fact that he has done this vs. Washington and New England....and only 10 points at that......

Let's see what he does after the bye, vs Green Bay on Monday Night Football vs. a team that has hopes for a wild card.

I would love to believe, but with the weak FA QB class and what we have on our roster, there is no way we should pass on a top QB in round one if he is there.
Hmm, again, the point  
jvm52106 : 11/29/2023 1:40 pm : link
is in the air. I was pretty clear I said Jones knows more and more capable of "running the offense" but the air production isn't there. This was a Devito hype train, it is a clear indication of what we need to change going forward and where things are at right now.

FW- yeah, I mentioned that 2022 was really built around the scheme, the running of Jones and Barkley. The threat of one of the other opened things up. When the Oline struggled early there was no dual threat and once teams teed off on the Oline and Jones we saw that he wasn't capable of manufacturing passing plays on his own.
You note the level of competition  
Stratman : 11/29/2023 1:51 pm : link
in the first half of the schedule vs the second half. DJ had much tougher competitors than Tommy and an OL sans Andrew Thomas and Justin Pugh (who isn't great but is playing better than Glow). Plus, a healthy Barkley.

I get your point about the TD passes. DJ must produce them. But, you have to account for the competition and the TDs he scores with his legs.
Jones ability to run the RPO  
Simms11 : 11/29/2023 1:57 pm : link
offense effectively is what propelled them to the playoffs. His legs are his bread and butter. He’s got a good arm, but it’s between the ears where he is lacking IMO. DeVito got his TDs against poor defenses and in garbage time. The one thing DeVito has going for him is his ability to throw the ball downfield. He’s not afraid to throw the ball deep and with Hyatt out there shouldn’t. I just do not see the Giants winning more then possibly one more game. Eagles are two of the three games left and the Giants will get crushed in those two games. It’s possible the Rams come in and lay an egg, but I wouldn’t bank on Stafford doing that.
RE: Jones ability to run the RPO  
Simms11 : 11/29/2023 1:58 pm : link
In comment 16307524 Simms11 said:
Quote:
offense effectively is what propelled them to the playoffs. His legs are his bread and butter. He’s got a good arm, but it’s between the ears where he is lacking IMO. DeVito got his TDs against poor defenses and in garbage time. The one thing DeVito has going for him is his ability to throw the ball downfield. He’s not afraid to throw the ball deep and with Hyatt out there shouldn’t. I just do not see the Giants winning more then possibly one more game. Eagles are two of the three games left and the Giants will get crushed in those two games. It’s possible the Rams come in and lay an egg, but I wouldn’t bank on Stafford doing that.


Two of five games left, sorry.
Keep hearing the Giants  
k2tampa : 11/29/2023 2:20 pm : link
could easily be 6-6. But lets be honest, the could just as easily be 1-11.

This season was doomed by injuries. No team could have survived what the Giants faced in the brutal seven weeks at the start of the season. A schedule never before seen and a boatload of injuries including to their most important players - QB, RB, LT, TE. Take out just those four on any team, including Philly, San Fran, KC and Dallas and what would their records be?

And, sorry, but it's just annoying when Giants fans can't get a player's name right. It's not hard. It's DeVito. Push the CAP key. Geez, at least respect what the kid has done enough to spell his name right. Would you type Brad Vanpelt? Or Dave Debusschere? Or John Leclair? Or Demar Derozan (that's a two-fer)? Norm Vanbrocklin? Or get ready for the Yankees' new reliever Yerry Delossantos?
One misconception of  
joeinpa : 11/29/2023 3:28 pm : link
DeVito, it s not like he played for some obscure schools

ACC and Big 10, is some pretty big time football

I get how perception creates hype, and while it s true he has brought some juice to a loss season, his two wins against the some pretty bad teams were more the result of 9 turnovers created by his defense

I d love to see him put some points on the board and win Monday and against the Saints, let s see what happens.
RE: RE: I appreciate the time and effort put into this  
Gman11 : 11/29/2023 3:57 pm : link
In comment 16307431 nochance said:
Quote:

Don't compare Divito to Jones. He got most of his offense in Garbage time with Dallas and faced 2 horrible teams playing at their worst (and possibly tanking).


He still had only 86 yards passing against Dallas even with the garbage time stats enhancer.
For the record  
4xchamps : 11/29/2023 4:35 pm : link
DeVito is a nice number THREE QB. The "he's better than DJ" stuff is absolute garbage....
RE: Agree. The hype on Davito is fun....but when you boil it down  
MotownGIANTS : 11/29/2023 4:41 pm : link
In comment 16307447 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
to the fact that he has done this vs. Washington and New England....and only 10 points at that......

Let's see what he does after the bye, vs Green Bay on Monday Night Football vs. a team that has hopes for a wild card.

I would love to believe, but with the weak FA QB class and what we have on our roster, there is no way we should pass on a top QB in round one if he is there.


I actually like the setup kid has taking a beating ... some time to heal/recharge, some extra study time for him to prepare. Same for his opponent, we'll see if Devito can correct 1 or 2 things (hopefully ID the hot read and use the checkdown when the situation calls for it).
Devito is a nice story, and one of the few reason to watch the team  
Beer Man : 11/29/2023 5:16 pm : link
But he is not an NFL starter, and may not be a #2. In all likelihood Jones is the starter next year (even if the team drafts a QB in the 1st). They can't cut DJ next year without taking a $69m cap hit. And if DJ has spectacular season after the team has drafted a QB to be his replacement, then that is a good problem to have.
RE: RE: I appreciate the time and effort put into this  
exiled : 11/30/2023 8:59 am : link
Quote:
Don't compare Divito to Jones. He… faced 2 horrible teams playing at their worst (and possibly tanking).

People throw around “tanking” like it actually happens in the NFL. Belichick would never tank a season. We—more than any other fans over the past decade—know how easy is to SUCK without trying.
...  
ryanmkeane : 11/30/2023 11:37 am : link
My positives are mainly Schoen nailing some draft picks in 2022 and 2023. Look at a pick like McFadden for instance. Long time since we've had really productive players in the mid rounds. McFadden is having a borderline pro bowl type season right now.
I look forward to watching Devito the rest of the way  
djm : 11/30/2023 4:53 pm : link
I don't think there's a "but" needed in any discussion involving Devito right now. Simply put, he's played like a professional QB for a limited offense. Full stop. Devito has a chance here to put himself into the mix, long term. He could be a backup. he could be a starter. He could be out of the NFL in 3 years. Let's see where this goes.

RE: ...  
djm : 11/30/2023 4:57 pm : link
In comment 16308578 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
My positives are mainly Schoen nailing some draft picks in 2022 and 2023. Look at a pick like McFadden for instance. Long time since we've had really productive players in the mid rounds. McFadden is having a borderline pro bowl type season right now.


This is the one huge saving grace occurring right now. Young talent development. 4-5 slots in the draft pales in comparison to the value we can get from 4-5 young players establishing themselves as future starters.

I might actually get fired up next Monday night if this team wins and young players help them win. And let's be honest, there's not much old talent here anyway. If the Giants look good it will be on the backs of some important young players.

If only Neal could come back and play well. That would be wonderful.
You make good points and I appreciate the detail  
BrianC : 11/30/2023 7:08 pm : link
but you can't compare last year to this year. We were dysfunctional and embarrassed several times this year - didn't happen last year. We're likely to end up with 5 or 6 wins which means we won't get a high enough draft pick to select an elite QB prospect in the first round so we need to move on from worrying about what the other bad teams are doing. The tank is over - if there ever was a tank. On the other hand, I oddly share your optimism for the near future. Between draft, free agency, and cap stability, I think we will be a much better team next year.
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