As the draft approaches, the Williams/Daniels/Maye trio are firmly projected to go 1/2/3 in the draft. The Giants sit at 5 and Schoen’s talks with the first teams picking shows the terms for trading up are unreasonable.
Schoen goes with an alternative route:
Acquires Justin Fields from the Bears (who are drafting one of those top 3 QBs), for this year’s 3rd rounder plus some additional consideration.
Spends the 1st rounder on Dallas Turner, immediately putting another premium talent into a spotty front 7.
2nd rounders are retained and used to draft BPA, but with an emphasis on WR and front 7. Players like Michael Hall (DL OSU), Madden Smith (DL LSU) and AD Mitchell (wr, Texas) would be in play but there a lot of interesting prospects in this range.
This allows Schoen to both retain the picks and really strengthen the team’s talent level while giving Daboll a high level pure talent like Fields to tutor. Though they’re different players stylistically, the parallels between Josh Allen and Fields are there: unquestionable raw physical talent, questions about accuracy but examples of high level throwing skills in specific situations..
I know some posters don’t like Fields but it’s fair to say he’s showing at least some exciting traits, so he’s a great candidate for a fresh start with skilled QB coaching.
Politically, Schoen should be able to convince Mara pretty easily that a 3rd rounder is worth it given the situation. Salary cap note: the Giants would need to commit to Field’s’ 5th year option prior to May so this acquisition would commit the Giants to a ~$25mm cap hit for Fields in 2025 and , if it works, a long term contract thereafter. Money, but the trade off is a low trade consideration.
How would you react to this playing out?
And how many times has that player actually turned their careers around with their next team?
I'm guessing that's a pretty small number, especially when considering NFL QBs. The only ones that come to mind are Plunkett and (maybe) Rich Gannon.
Trading for Fields is a bad idea.
Also, I'm not sure if the OP was suggesting that Williams, Daniels and Maye were DEFINITELY going top 3 or whether that was simply part of the thread's premise, but if it's the former... very few of the draft experts have Daniels going in the top 3.
This is a really good rebuttal of the idea. I will point out that Fields is having a third season, which I think is generally the latest point when the very good QBs will begin to show their quality, marred by injuries. It could be regarded as an incomplete.
The Bears OC is Luke Getty who earned his stripes as QB coach in Aaron Rodgers‘ later years. He’s entirely suspect as a coordinator and there’s reason to believe Dabka are a significantly better set of tutors for getting the most of Fields.
Grade: 79
NFL Comparison: Joshua Dobbs / CLE
Sixth year senior. Four-year starter from Greensboro, NC. Spent four seasons at Virginia Tech and two at Tennessee. 2022 SEC Offensive Player of the Year and Third Team All-American. Hooker took over the starting job for Tennessee a couple weeks into the 2021 season and changed the trajectory of the program. A year later, he took home the SEC Offensive Player of the Year Award and nearly led them to the College Football Playoffs. Playing under the Air Raid scheme, Hooker proved he can drop the ball in a bucket downfield, create with his legs, and play a tough brand of football. A torn ACL late in the year and the fact he is already 25 years old can cause some hesitation when looking at the long-term projection. This is a top-shelf young man with talent and proven success at the highest level of college football. At the very least, he is a great addition to the quarterback room with the upside of a solid starter. Hooker is a mature, battle-tested leader with an equal distribution of talent from his arm and legs with that will be a great addition to a quarterback room with quality starter-upside.
*I like the intangibles of Hooker enough to consider him in round one. The knee and age (combined) are enough to bump him down a notch. He will be 26 when he sees his first NFL action. That is approaching Brandon Weeden territory. But even if you don’t see a starter – he will be important for a team. Remember, one can make an argument the backup QB is more important than some of the starting spots in today’s NFL. He is tough, he is a leader, he is smart. I think someone is going to trade up for him toward the end of round one to let him compete for a job in 2024.
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You know free agency is a thing right?
Yes, Schoen needs to put a few pieces from Free Agency on the interior with game experience.
And for the draft OL crowd, there is no quick "fix" coming anytime soon or at all. The OL has to get better but that will/will not come from:
1) adding some mid-priced talent on interior from free agency
2) Neal putting on his big-boy shorts and being somewhat reliable at RT, and
3) upgrading at QB with a guy Defenses have to account for in passing game
Incidentally, I’m assuming trading for Fields means he starts Day One for the Giants.
This is a good point. I didn't account for how expensive that 5th year option would be.
I'd like to see Daboll work with him, but ultimately a rookie makes the most sense. Even Hooker would already be a 2nd year into his 4 year rookie deal with no experience under his belt.
Schoen who seems very aware of positional value would want the 5th tear option on any drafted QB.
I think Schoen packaging a 2nd rounder and 4th rounder to move into the 20ish range to take a QB is probably most likely.
Not saying you’re wrong but how many more 1st and 2nd rounders do we use to fix this line? Hopefully we find some quality middle rounders to do the job.
So, instead of having one unproven NFL starter, you now have two.
These comments drive me crazy. So the only way to fix the offensive line is by not drafting a QB in round 1? The Giants have two second round picks and a 3rd round pick that they can use on the offensive line. There is also free agency where the Giants will surely want to add a solid veteran to the offensive line. What good is an OL if they lack a good quarterback?
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Not saying you’re wrong but how many more 1st and 2nd rounders do we use to fix this line? Hopefully we find some quality middle rounders to do the job.
Quality middle rounders like Lemieux or Bredeson or even Ezudu. You do that and next year will look just like this year on the OL. Now, I think a quality FA is the route to go but quality middle rounders isn’t.
For those touting using a 2nd and 3rd on a developmental QB, I am truly unwowed by the prospects in that range this year. Fields is in another region entirely in terms of raw talent.
So the assumption is that the Bears coaching staff is shit and once Fields has the opportunity to learn under our brilliant offensive coaches he will flourish? Really?
No to Fields.
Better to get a young guy they scout and have under their control for multiple seasons.
Second - WR is more than possible, even though Harrison is already beyond reach. DJ has never had a focal point WR who can actually create space and be read as open based on relative positioning vs primary cover and safety help. And we still run a Mickey Mouse offense where picks, rubs, and leverage are known only in the opposition universe. Anyone should be able to see that all Hyatt needs is single coverage and route concepts not allowing coverage to grab him without holding occurring, to be considered open.
Third - If there is an ER available who can make an immediate positive+ impact (say 10 sacks or so) then that addition would help the team more than anything else we could do. Really like Laiatu, but do not yet have a feel for him as a super premium athlete. Probably my favorite for team (although not DJ) if combine or equivalent justifies premium status.
Hooker has not played and is coming off an ACL injury so we have no idea how good he is,it is speculation based upon scouting reports. Is he a better prospect than QBs coming out in the draft? Where would Hooker be drafted if he came out this year? Don't forget that Hooker will be 26 in January and played in Tennessee's one read offense.
If Hooker is as good as you believe why would Detroit trade Hooker?
Goff is 29 and Bridgewater is 31. It is likely that Bridgewater will not return and the Hooker would be the second QB.
That's not how the draft works, and they've already spent two top 7 overall picks on their tackles. The rest will likely happen elsewhere, eg UFA and develop some of the players already on the roster.
I'm more than happy to pick Turner and use the two 2nd rounders, as the team needs talent at key spots and the 2nd round is often a value sweet spot. But, they might need some of that ammo to move up for a QB.
^This. Not interested in QB "reclamation projects," including Fields. Draft someone and start over.
The chance to see if Fields could be special with Daboll only for a 3rd round pick as compensation, would be well worth it.
If the top three aren't there, trade back slightly and take one of Nix/Penix. Then take one of the lower tier guys (I'd r target Cam Ward from WSU) later in the draft.
Hooker has not played and is coming off an ACL injury so we have no idea how good he is,it is speculation based upon scouting reports. Is he a better prospect than QBs coming out in the draft? Where would Hooker be drafted if he came out this year? Don't forget that Hooker will be 26 in January and played in Tennessee's one read offense.
If Hooker is as good as you believe why would Detroit trade Hooker?
Goff is 29 and Bridgewater is 31. It is likely that Bridgewater will not return and the Hooker would be the second QB.
My $.02, from the Giants' perspective:
1. I don't know if Hooker is good. I know that the Giants did a LOT of work on Hooker in the last draft, and the reports were that they would have strongly considered taking him if he slipped to them in the 3rd round.
2. If they like him as much as I think, they probably didn't take him in Round 2 b/c they wanted to build out the roster around Jones. (Second rounder was going to be either Hyatt or Schmitz per the draft room video.)(
3. If they knew that 2023 was going to go the way it did, and they liked Hooker like I think they did, I suspect they would've taken him in the second round last year if they could do it all over.
From the Lions' perspective:
1. It doesn't make sense to trade him for less than what they paid, unless they've really soured on him.
2. They might prefer a more directly useful asset (a mid-second round pick), given their Super Bowl orientation, rather than hanging onto a developmental backup QB.
This is sort of win-win, IMO:
- Giants get a guy they did a ton of work on last year.
- Lions get a return on their investment and a good player for a 2024 Super Bowl bid.
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until we fix that we could get Mahommes killed
That's not how the draft works, and they've already spent two top 7 overall picks on their tackles. The rest will likely happen elsewhere, eg UFA and develop some of the players already on the roster.
It certainly is how the draft works, the great 49er teams once drafted and entire defensive backfield in one draft. smart
Fields is more talented than Jones by a fair margin. While I agree he's shown some poor tendencies, he's got a great arm, great speed, and great athleticism. The tools are clearly there.
So, it's not impossible to think that if Fields got with a craftsman like Daboll, he may finally start to reach his potential...
I do agree there would be cap issues that would probably make this a non-starter...
2024: Jones/Fields/DeVito
2025: Fields/drafted QB
2026: Drafted QB
The Giants signed Jones likely because they felt they could compete while they built the rest of the roster up. Fields is another body to bring in with Jones until his contract becomes cuttable (2025). So you are basically just swapping out Fields for Jones in 2025.
Hooker is not a bad suggestion as well. Schoen is someone who is willing to trade, I could absolutely see him trading for a young QB in 2024.
Why are you giving up a top 70 pick for "another body to bring in with Jones until his contract becomes cuttable"? You can get another body in the draft or off the tree agency bargain bin.
Fields is more talented than Jones by a fair margin. While I agree he's shown some poor tendencies, he's got a great arm, great speed, and great athleticism. The tools are clearly there.
So, it's not impossible to think that if Fields got with a craftsman like Daboll, he may finally start to reach his potential...
I do agree there would be cap issues that would probably make this a non-starter...
You are vastly overrating Fields. I see nothing about him I like, except his running.
For those touting using a 2nd and 3rd on a developmental QB, I am truly unwowed by the prospects in that range this year. Fields is in another region entirely in terms of raw talent.
Well thought out if you like Fields….but yeah, he does not move the needle at all for the Giants.
I’d bet the farm Schoen gets a QB he likes in this draft. I think folks are sleeping on Nix, expect he will be on the shopping list if the value when they pick is there.
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but allow me this PSA to the board: - if you think Jones has had poor support with NYG, what the hell would you call the experience Fields has had with that apocalypse known as the Bears? Many on this board were/are willing to give Jones a half decade plus for Jones to show something.
Fields is more talented than Jones by a fair margin. While I agree he's shown some poor tendencies, he's got a great arm, great speed, and great athleticism. The tools are clearly there.
So, it's not impossible to think that if Fields got with a craftsman like Daboll, he may finally start to reach his potential...
I do agree there would be cap issues that would probably make this a non-starter...
You are vastly overrating Fields. I see nothing about him I like, except his running.
Maybe. I've always had a bias towards liking Fields. And would at least like to see him get a crack at playing for a team that has an offensive minded HC and stable organization.
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The logic is that working with new coaches, Fields would improve on his weak areas. He is earlier in his career than Jones making for a different situation and more prospects for improvement. He has also shown flashes of good play.
For those touting using a 2nd and 3rd on a developmental QB, I am truly unwowed by the prospects in that range this year. Fields is in another region entirely in terms of raw talent.
Fields is perhaps the worst qb in the NFL, and and that includes Kyler Murray, Mack Jones, and Zack Wilson! The Giants have their qb and now it appears a good back up qb. They should draft he best olineman available, build an oline to protect Jones.
That fact that Kyler Murray is on your list of the worst QBs in the NFL shows why nobody should take you seriously.
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In comment 16308524 gtt350 said:
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until we fix that we could get Mahommes killed
That's not how the draft works, and they've already spent two top 7 overall picks on their tackles. The rest will likely happen elsewhere, eg UFA and develop some of the players already on the roster.
It certainly is how the draft works, the great 49er teams once drafted and entire defensive backfield in one draft. smart
That's called an anomaly. No front office has the time to wait on a QB eg until the OL is built, especially if one they want presents the opportunity to strike.
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In comment 16308694 bw in dc said:
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but allow me this PSA to the board: - if you think Jones has had poor support with NYG, what the hell would you call the experience Fields has had with that apocalypse known as the Bears? Many on this board were/are willing to give Jones a half decade plus for Jones to show something.
Fields is more talented than Jones by a fair margin. While I agree he's shown some poor tendencies, he's got a great arm, great speed, and great athleticism. The tools are clearly there.
So, it's not impossible to think that if Fields got with a craftsman like Daboll, he may finally start to reach his potential...
I do agree there would be cap issues that would probably make this a non-starter...
You are vastly overrating Fields. I see nothing about him I like, except his running.
Maybe. I've always had a bias towards liking Fields. And would at least like to see him get a crack at playing for a team that has an offensive minded HC and stable organization.
San Francisco would be perfect for him. I think he would do really well there or perhaps Seattle.
Glad to see you hated this trade equally to my Murray trade hypothetical, haha.
FIELDS has absolutely no feel for the passing game. And he's getting worse. NO thx.
I still think Murray is an interesting buy low candidate. If Daboll wanted him I would be excited for it, honestly. I know most hate him due to some weird Arizona leaked contract language but he's been a very productive 2 way player when things are right. HE can throw. He can run. And he can escape pressure and elevate an offense. ANd he can run a very complex pro offense as well. Not to mention he hasn't exactly been playing with the 1989 Niners offense there in Zona.
But no thx to Fields.
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Are you serious? You know he's due to get paid. How much are you allocating to him and Jones? You're signing him to a contract extension and giving up a 3rd? Start working on your resume.
Glad to see you hated this trade equally to my Murray trade hypothetical, haha.
FIELDS has absolutely no feel for the passing game. And he's getting worse. NO thx.
I still think Murray is an interesting buy low candidate. If Daboll wanted him I would be excited for it, honestly. I know most hate him due to some weird Arizona leaked contract language but he's been a very productive 2 way player when things are right. HE can throw. He can run. And he can escape pressure and elevate an offense. ANd he can run a very complex pro offense as well. Not to mention he hasn't exactly been playing with the 1989 Niners offense there in Zona.
But no thx to Fields.
Murray has a bad vibe to him. Always has. Absolutely talented but undersized. You cannot dismiss the contract language, it was put there for a reason.
No one would be intrigued with Daboll and Murray working together? To me all that noise that Murray doesn't practice or study film can be worked around and we aren't even sure how true any of that stuff was or the severity of it. I know the guy can play at a near MVP level. No guts no glory and all that...
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In comment 16308175 robbieballs2003 said:
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Are you serious? You know he's due to get paid. How much are you allocating to him and Jones? You're signing him to a contract extension and giving up a 3rd? Start working on your resume.
Glad to see you hated this trade equally to my Murray trade hypothetical, haha.
FIELDS has absolutely no feel for the passing game. And he's getting worse. NO thx.
I still think Murray is an interesting buy low candidate. If Daboll wanted him I would be excited for it, honestly. I know most hate him due to some weird Arizona leaked contract language but he's been a very productive 2 way player when things are right. HE can throw. He can run. And he can escape pressure and elevate an offense. ANd he can run a very complex pro offense as well. Not to mention he hasn't exactly been playing with the 1989 Niners offense there in Zona.
But no thx to Fields.
Murray has a bad vibe to him. Always has. Absolutely talented but undersized. You cannot dismiss the contract language, it was put there for a reason.
To be fair Zona did eventually waive that language if memory serves. But just to play devil's advocate, let's saw there was legit smoke there, what if Murray won NYG's brass over and came off as genuinely ready to put in the extra work? We've seen NYG rehab and fix problem child QBs before...
Only reason I bring up Murray so much is I wonder if Zona wants to move on from him with them likely gaining a very high pick in this draft. Ironically I think they take Marvin Harrison anyway and stick with Murray but you never know.
We dealt a 3rd round pick for Darren Waller. Doing the same for someone like Fields would be a no brainer. If it doesn't work out...oh well. If it does, you got a talented QB who may be able to put it all together with Daboll for the price of a draft pick that may amount to nothing.
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The logic is that working with new coaches, Fields would improve on his weak areas. He is earlier in his career than Jones making for a different situation and more prospects for improvement. He has also shown flashes of good play.
For those touting using a 2nd and 3rd on a developmental QB, I am truly unwowed by the prospects in that range this year. Fields is in another region entirely in terms of raw talent.
Fields is perhaps the worst qb in the NFL, and and that includes Kyler Murray, Mack Jones, and Zack Wilson! The Giants have their qb and now it appears a good back up qb. They should draft he best olineman available, build an oline to protect Jones.
Kyler Murray is not in the same category as the other QBs you mentioned
We dealt a 3rd round pick for Darren Waller. Doing the same for someone like Fields would be a no brainer. If it doesn't work out...oh well. If it does, you got a talented QB who may be able to put it all together with Daboll for the price of a draft pick that may amount to nothing.
The Giants gave up a a third to take a corner in the supplemental draft. One on a lotto ticket QB, would be a no brainer agreed.
No to Fields.
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In comment 16308192 cosmicj said:
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The logic is that working with new coaches, Fields would improve on his weak areas. He is earlier in his career than Jones making for a different situation and more prospects for improvement. He has also shown flashes of good play.
For those touting using a 2nd and 3rd on a developmental QB, I am truly unwowed by the prospects in that range this year. Fields is in another region entirely in terms of raw talent.
Fields is perhaps the worst qb in the NFL, and and that includes Kyler Murray, Mack Jones, and Zack Wilson! The Giants have their qb and now it appears a good back up qb. They should draft he best olineman available, build an oline to protect Jones.
Kyler Murray is not in the same category as the other QBs you mentioned
Murray is an MVP caliber talent. He's led Zona to 400+ seasons TWICE. The guy can beat you in 2 ways and he can most definitely pass from the pocket.
Plus, I have a hard time taking the side of Arizona when it comes to just about anything, let alone identifying football personnel.
Ill keep saying it but some team might themselves get a star QB if Zona wants to trade Murray this off-season. I know there's noise with Murray that is maybe a little concerning but don't go on noise, go on productivity. The guy can play QB.
No to Fields.
I totally agree that you need the acumen to play QB in the NFL. I'm just not sure Fields is or isn't able to get there because of his situation in Chicago.
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In comment 16308808 djm said:
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In comment 16308175 robbieballs2003 said:
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Are you serious? You know he's due to get paid. How much are you allocating to him and Jones? You're signing him to a contract extension and giving up a 3rd? Start working on your resume.
Glad to see you hated this trade equally to my Murray trade hypothetical, haha.
FIELDS has absolutely no feel for the passing game. And he's getting worse. NO thx.
I still think Murray is an interesting buy low candidate. If Daboll wanted him I would be excited for it, honestly. I know most hate him due to some weird Arizona leaked contract language but he's been a very productive 2 way player when things are right. HE can throw. He can run. And he can escape pressure and elevate an offense. ANd he can run a very complex pro offense as well. Not to mention he hasn't exactly been playing with the 1989 Niners offense there in Zona.
But no thx to Fields.
Murray has a bad vibe to him. Always has. Absolutely talented but undersized. You cannot dismiss the contract language, it was put there for a reason.
To be fair Zona did eventually waive that language if memory serves. But just to play devil's advocate, let's saw there was legit smoke there, what if Murray won NYG's brass over and came off as genuinely ready to put in the extra work? We've seen NYG rehab and fix problem child QBs before...
Only reason I bring up Murray so much is I wonder if Zona wants to move on from him with them likely gaining a very high pick in this draft. Ironically I think they take Marvin Harrison anyway and stick with Murray but you never know.
No to Murray. I just do not see him as a long term answer for the Giants.
I also agree that they keep Murray and draft Harrison to help him.
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Not saying you’re wrong but how many more 1st and 2nd rounders do we use to fix this line? Hopefully we find some quality middle rounders to do the job.
There’s a very good chance a Tackle or TE is the highest graded player for our 1st pick. I know which one I’d choose. It’s seldom wise to shy away from BPA, especially at a valuable position of need.