As the draft approaches, the Williams/Daniels/Maye trio are firmly projected to go 1/2/3 in the draft. The Giants sit at 5 and Schoen’s talks with the first teams picking shows the terms for trading up are unreasonable.
Schoen goes with an alternative route:
Acquires Justin Fields from the Bears (who are drafting one of those top 3 QBs), for this year’s 3rd rounder plus some additional consideration.
Spends the 1st rounder on Dallas Turner, immediately putting another premium talent into a spotty front 7.
2nd rounders are retained and used to draft BPA, but with an emphasis on WR and front 7. Players like Michael Hall (DL OSU), Madden Smith (DL LSU) and AD Mitchell (wr, Texas) would be in play but there a lot of interesting prospects in this range.
This allows Schoen to both retain the picks and really strengthen the team’s talent level while giving Daboll a high level pure talent like Fields to tutor. Though they’re different players stylistically, the parallels between Josh Allen and Fields are there: unquestionable raw physical talent, questions about accuracy but examples of high level throwing skills in specific situations..
I know some posters don’t like Fields but it’s fair to say he’s showing at least some exciting traits, so he’s a great candidate for a fresh start with skilled QB coaching.
Politically, Schoen should be able to convince Mara pretty easily that a 3rd rounder is worth it given the situation. Salary cap note: the Giants would need to commit to Field’s’ 5th year option prior to May so this acquisition would commit the Giants to a ~$25mm cap hit for Fields in 2025 and , if it works, a long term contract thereafter. Money, but the trade off is a low trade consideration.
How would you react to this playing out?
I'd look to the 2nd level QBs in round 2 at that point and take ER/WR in round one. (or maybe one of the two OTs)
I think AZ takes Harrison with their #1 pick.
For those touting using a 2nd and 3rd on a developmental QB, I am truly unwowed by the prospects in that range this year. Fields is in another region entirely in terms of raw talent.
Fields is still under his rookie deal in 2024 and potentially a 5th year option in 2025. Jones & Fields also have similar styles of play, so it makes sense.
I don't view this as QB hell, the Giants are already in it paying Jones. Fields is just bringing in someone who is talented with the chance to work with Brian Daboll. These are the types of moves the Eagles make. He'd be a reclamation project.
If Schoen can't trade up for any of the top QB's or the value isn't there , I don't think this is a bad alternative. Fields won't need to be paid for awhile. I'd prefer this to signing a veteran like Tannehill.
The Giants spent a lot of time looking at Hooker last year; if they think he's got potential, and the top 3 are off the board... he's there and potentially gettable.
I am not in love with this path, but it could work.
i know of another Bama QB who's built like a RB and currently enjoying insane success.
The OL has to be better regardless. Maybe Daboll could find similar success with:
Milroe Nabers and Hyatt
(Hurts Brown and Smith)
Let me dream
2024: Jones/Fields/DeVito
2025: Fields/drafted QB
2026: Drafted QB
The Giants signed Jones likely because they felt they could compete while they built the rest of the roster up. Fields is another body to bring in with Jones until his contract becomes cuttable (2025). So you are basically just swapping out Fields for Jones in 2025.
Hooker is not a bad suggestion as well. Schoen is someone who is willing to trade, I could absolutely see him trading for a young QB in 2024.
I guess since he isn't mentioning upgrading the O line he wants a run first QB.
I'd expect Schoen to sign some interior OL help in free agency, and draft some depth later on such as a swing tackle.
But I don't see premium resources dumped into the OL, they've already got plenty. Develop them. Sy echoed this as well in the game review.
Also would still pick a rookie QB if I were Schoen on Day 2 or early Day 3.
You know free agency is a thing right?
Lions spent a 3rd on him last year so can't imagine a world where they trade him for anything equal to or less than that within 1 year.
And how many times has that player actually turned their careers around with their next team?
I'm guessing that's a pretty small number, especially when considering NFL QBs. The only ones that come to mind are Plunkett and (maybe) Rich Gannon.
Trading for Fields is a bad idea.
Also, I'm not sure if the OP was suggesting that Williams, Daniels and Maye were DEFINITELY going top 3 or whether that was simply part of the thread's premise, but if it's the former... very few of the draft experts have Daniels going in the top 3.
Lions spent a 3rd on him last year so can't imagine a world where they trade him for anything equal to or less than that within 1 year.
I'm with you. Offer the Seattle second for him; give them return on their investment.
Lions spent a 3rd on him last year so can't imagine a world where they trade him for anything equal to or less than that within 1 year.
Schoen has said they like investing in people they know and they did a lot of prep on him. Not sure why the Lions would move him though.
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But I see no reason why his team would trade him, and that's Hendon Hooker.
Lions spent a 3rd on him last year so can't imagine a world where they trade him for anything equal to or less than that within 1 year.
Schoen has said they like investing in people they know and they did a lot of prep on him. Not sure why the Lions would move him though.
I think at a minimum it's worth a phone call to Detroit. The logic would be that Detroit is happier with Goff now than they were a year ago and think that an extra second rounder would be worthwhile. They would be seeing appreciation on their investment for very little effort--basically swapping last year's 3rd for this year's 2nd.
For the Giants: it's a recognition that their QB situation looks much worse than it did 12 months ago with the Jones injuries; I suspect they would have taken Hooker instead of JMS if they knew then what they know now.
I can't think of a more applicable saying for this thread.
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In comment 16308245 Chris684 said:
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But I see no reason why his team would trade him, and that's Hendon Hooker.
Lions spent a 3rd on him last year so can't imagine a world where they trade him for anything equal to or less than that within 1 year.
Schoen has said they like investing in people they know and they did a lot of prep on him. Not sure why the Lions would move him though.
I think at a minimum it's worth a phone call to Detroit. The logic would be that Detroit is happier with Goff now than they were a year ago and think that an extra second rounder would be worthwhile. They would be seeing appreciation on their investment for very little effort--basically swapping last year's 3rd for this year's 2nd.
For the Giants: it's a recognition that their QB situation looks much worse than it did 12 months ago with the Jones injuries; I suspect they would have taken Hooker instead of JMS if they knew then what they know now.
If we came away with WR, Edge and Hooker with picks 1, 2, 2. I would have no issue with that assuming Hooker is healthy of course. I saw the Lions just opened up his window to start practicing.
But I think a lot of fans are missing is just how spotty the front 7 talent is on the team. 3 stars, maybe 2 solid players and then a lot of average. Clark has the potential to be the best defensive player on the team. He is a high level talent.
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In comment 16308254 Sean said:
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In comment 16308245 Chris684 said:
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But I see no reason why his team would trade him, and that's Hendon Hooker.
Lions spent a 3rd on him last year so can't imagine a world where they trade him for anything equal to or less than that within 1 year.
Schoen has said they like investing in people they know and they did a lot of prep on him. Not sure why the Lions would move him though.
I think at a minimum it's worth a phone call to Detroit. The logic would be that Detroit is happier with Goff now than they were a year ago and think that an extra second rounder would be worthwhile. They would be seeing appreciation on their investment for very little effort--basically swapping last year's 3rd for this year's 2nd.
For the Giants: it's a recognition that their QB situation looks much worse than it did 12 months ago with the Jones injuries; I suspect they would have taken Hooker instead of JMS if they knew then what they know now.
If we came away with WR, Edge and Hooker with picks 1, 2, 2. I would have no issue with that assuming Hooker is healthy of course. I saw the Lions just opened up his window to start practicing.
Yeah, same here. I think this is a second-best option to just landing one of the big guys in the draft--if Daniels is there and you trust your interviews you just take him--but they already did the work on Hooker and liked him, so I think that should count for a lot.
I'm more than happy to pick Turner and use the two 2nd rounders, as the team needs talent at key spots and the 2nd round is often a value sweet spot. But, they might need some of that ammo to move up for a QB.
Fields may be a worthy reclamation project, but we are in year 2 of his career and I haven't seen anything that would tell me with the right coaching he will be an elite talent.
In your scenario I would take the highest rated player on my board at #5, and try to trade back into the first if I had even a high second round grade on any of the remaining QBs. If that guy is not the answer, try again in 2025 or 2026.
A QB is key to making this team competitive. No more stop gaps.
And how many times has that player actually turned their careers around with their next team?
I'm guessing that's a pretty small number, especially when considering NFL QBs. The only ones that come to mind are Plunkett and (maybe) Rich Gannon.
Trading for Fields is a bad idea.
Also, I'm not sure if the OP was suggesting that Williams, Daniels and Maye were DEFINITELY going top 3 or whether that was simply part of the thread's premise, but if it's the former... very few of the draft experts have Daniels going in the top 3.
This is a really good rebuttal of the idea. I will point out that Fields is having a third season, which I think is generally the latest point when the very good QBs will begin to show their quality, marred by injuries. It could be regarded as an incomplete.
The Bears OC is Luke Getty who earned his stripes as QB coach in Aaron Rodgers‘ later years. He’s entirely suspect as a coordinator and there’s reason to believe Dabka are a significantly better set of tutors for getting the most of Fields.
Grade: 79
NFL Comparison: Joshua Dobbs / CLE
Sixth year senior. Four-year starter from Greensboro, NC. Spent four seasons at Virginia Tech and two at Tennessee. 2022 SEC Offensive Player of the Year and Third Team All-American. Hooker took over the starting job for Tennessee a couple weeks into the 2021 season and changed the trajectory of the program. A year later, he took home the SEC Offensive Player of the Year Award and nearly led them to the College Football Playoffs. Playing under the Air Raid scheme, Hooker proved he can drop the ball in a bucket downfield, create with his legs, and play a tough brand of football. A torn ACL late in the year and the fact he is already 25 years old can cause some hesitation when looking at the long-term projection. This is a top-shelf young man with talent and proven success at the highest level of college football. At the very least, he is a great addition to the quarterback room with the upside of a solid starter. Hooker is a mature, battle-tested leader with an equal distribution of talent from his arm and legs with that will be a great addition to a quarterback room with quality starter-upside.
*I like the intangibles of Hooker enough to consider him in round one. The knee and age (combined) are enough to bump him down a notch. He will be 26 when he sees his first NFL action. That is approaching Brandon Weeden territory. But even if you don’t see a starter – he will be important for a team. Remember, one can make an argument the backup QB is more important than some of the starting spots in today’s NFL. He is tough, he is a leader, he is smart. I think someone is going to trade up for him toward the end of round one to let him compete for a job in 2024.
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You know free agency is a thing right?
Yes, Schoen needs to put a few pieces from Free Agency on the interior with game experience.
And for the draft OL crowd, there is no quick "fix" coming anytime soon or at all. The OL has to get better but that will/will not come from:
1) adding some mid-priced talent on interior from free agency
2) Neal putting on his big-boy shorts and being somewhat reliable at RT, and
3) upgrading at QB with a guy Defenses have to account for in passing game
Incidentally, I’m assuming trading for Fields means he starts Day One for the Giants.
This is a good point. I didn't account for how expensive that 5th year option would be.
I'd like to see Daboll work with him, but ultimately a rookie makes the most sense. Even Hooker would already be a 2nd year into his 4 year rookie deal with no experience under his belt.
Schoen who seems very aware of positional value would want the 5th tear option on any drafted QB.
I think Schoen packaging a 2nd rounder and 4th rounder to move into the 20ish range to take a QB is probably most likely.
Not saying you’re wrong but how many more 1st and 2nd rounders do we use to fix this line? Hopefully we find some quality middle rounders to do the job.
So, instead of having one unproven NFL starter, you now have two.
These comments drive me crazy. So the only way to fix the offensive line is by not drafting a QB in round 1? The Giants have two second round picks and a 3rd round pick that they can use on the offensive line. There is also free agency where the Giants will surely want to add a solid veteran to the offensive line. What good is an OL if they lack a good quarterback?
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Not saying you’re wrong but how many more 1st and 2nd rounders do we use to fix this line? Hopefully we find some quality middle rounders to do the job.
Quality middle rounders like Lemieux or Bredeson or even Ezudu. You do that and next year will look just like this year on the OL. Now, I think a quality FA is the route to go but quality middle rounders isn’t.
For those touting using a 2nd and 3rd on a developmental QB, I am truly unwowed by the prospects in that range this year. Fields is in another region entirely in terms of raw talent.
So the assumption is that the Bears coaching staff is shit and once Fields has the opportunity to learn under our brilliant offensive coaches he will flourish? Really?
No to Fields.
Better to get a young guy they scout and have under their control for multiple seasons.
Second - WR is more than possible, even though Harrison is already beyond reach. DJ has never had a focal point WR who can actually create space and be read as open based on relative positioning vs primary cover and safety help. And we still run a Mickey Mouse offense where picks, rubs, and leverage are known only in the opposition universe. Anyone should be able to see that all Hyatt needs is single coverage and route concepts not allowing coverage to grab him without holding occurring, to be considered open.
Third - If there is an ER available who can make an immediate positive+ impact (say 10 sacks or so) then that addition would help the team more than anything else we could do. Really like Laiatu, but do not yet have a feel for him as a super premium athlete. Probably my favorite for team (although not DJ) if combine or equivalent justifies premium status.