Two more reporters, confirm rift between Martindale and Daboll.
Mike Sando of The Athletic reports that Daboll’s use of the “Patriots Way” behind closed doors is what has led to a falling out with defensive coordinator Wink Martindale, despite what they and the players would have you believe.
“Daboll learned from Bill and Nick, and we all remember Nick undressing Lane Kiffin and Daboll himself at Alabama,” a veteran coach who knows members of the Giants’ staff told Sando. “A guy as established as Wink says, ‘You can yell at the young coaches, but not me.'”
ESPN’s Jordan Raanan, while appearing on the latest episode of Talkin’ Giants, also acknowledged a rift between Daboll and Martindale.
“This is just my opinion on this but he gets on Wink and he gets on him hard. He’s all over him,” Raanan said. “When you’re on this guy and you’re riding him hard, and you’re crushing his defense and questioning the things he’s doing, and the guy is looking across to the other side and he’s like, ‘Your offense is 32nd in the league. We can’t even move the ball. . . And you’re sitting here MFing me and giving me a hard time.’ That’s how the tension builds and that’s why we’re at where we’re at.”
Raanan also reports that others have acknowledged that Daboll is a “hard guy to work for.” “That is something that’s come out,” Raanan said. “I got a text yesterday from somebody out of complete nowhere that said (that).”
The bottom line here is that when Jay Glazer reports something, you can take that something to the bank. The issues between Daboll and Martindale are very real and it will come to a head sooner rather than later.
Wink and Dabs - (
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Not saying it can’t be true but reporting it as fact is wrong. Trusting a “random text” from Raanan? I’m good.
Not saying it can’t be true but reporting it as fact is wrong. Trusting a “random text” from Raanan? I’m good.
Is it random though? I mean it basically is supporting what a highly respected insider, Jay Glazer, reported. Sando also lends credence to the notion. Anyway, it is more noise.
Let's face it, Wink is a heavyweight himself and is probably deserving of a head coach opportunity in the league. I personally can't blame him for feeling like Daboll should have a different approach with him.
Let's face it, Wink is a heavyweight himself and is probably deserving of a head coach opportunity in the league. I personally can't blame him for feeling like Daboll should have a different approach with him.
Agreed. Wink has the resume where he doesn't deserve to be yelled at by a comparative newbie like Daboll.
If so, I'll bet Wink hangs on until the end of the season and moves on.
Exactly
Wink has been coaching a decade more than Daboll and is about 12 years older.
I'll use the military analogy. Daboll is in the man in charge yes, as he outranks a DC. Daboll is essentially a Lieutenant. A first time head coach (as a first time officer). Daboll is a seasoned DC, essentially a 1st Sergeant. Just because a LT outranks a 1st Sergeant doesn't mean he should be dressing him down. If it was behind closed doors it's bad enough. If in front of others, even worse.
Add to that the defense has performed significantly better this season that the offense, Daboll is not coming out looking too good.
That being said...no coach has done a good job this year on Offense/Defense/STs and if wide-spread changes are made, then so be it.
Agreed. This is what Glazer reported:
“These guys are in a bad place — bad place to the point where I don’t see them actually continuing their relationship after this season, maybe even during this season,” Glazer said of Daboll and Martindale, who never worked together previously. “Could be a mutual parting of the ways. When I talk to people inside that organization, they are saying the tension between these two, you can feel it. It is just getting worse and it’s just odd that it has happened considering how much success they had together last year.”
Wink may not be back, and there may be a rift - but boy these beats are just garbage. Either they know something but were too chicken-shit to share until Glazer did, or they are just fearful of missing out on the scoop so they just propagate the same story as everyone else but don't add anything new. Either way - the quality of the beats is at an all time low - thankfully we still have BBI
There had better be some arguing about a season that got away.
Winning solves it.
No shame.
That’s fine but these are the fruits of a terrible year.
The O-line
The ineffectiveness of Jones, the offense, Waller, etc
Eric Gray/no punt returner
No viable swing tackle
Using an injured kicker in a monsoon
Separate from all the above, Wink’s unit has had a much better season, and he’s had to do it with rookies and young, inexperienced players in Banks, Hawkins, Pinnock, Thibs and McFadden. Then they traded one of his best players in season (we all understand the trade was good) but on the field it hurt Wink’s unit.
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just guys receiving info from unnamed sources and then telling us about it. And there’s a big difference between hard to work with and a rift.
Not saying it can’t be true but reporting it as fact is wrong. Trusting a “random text” from Raanan? I’m good.
Is it random though? I mean it basically is supporting what a highly respected insider, Jay Glazer, reported. Sando also lends credence to the notion. Anyway, it is more noise.
People always bitch about "unnamed sources" but that's how news breaks. Jay Glazer isn't going to go on TV with information he doesn't believe is accurate.
I don't know why it's so hard to believe these two are reportedly butting heads. They have no previous relationship, and Wink was only hired after Patrick Graham left for the Raiders after he was presumed to be Daboll's DC.
Yelling at assistant is not the point. Is it Ryan? The point being made is that there is a falling out between the two that may very well lead to a divorce.
I don’t doubt there is friction, but this nuclear fallout that’s being reported sounds like embellished reporting. Is it ok to trust Glazer and still question how severe this issue actually is? That isn’t denial.
Hopefully McGaughey and Bobby Johnson are let go at the end of the year. Too many negative plays there and OL hasn't had development. Comparatively, the defense has had improvements especially for guys like Thibodeaux, Lawrence, and McFadden. Even Flott has looked much better in his second year.
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Don’t be in denial. Glazer reports it. It’s true. He is one of the most plugged in guys and his whole shtick now is to drop one news story a week. And this was his nugget this week. It’s definitely true and the fact dabs gave wink the game ball. I mean please, that has Hanlons fingerprints all over it
I don’t doubt there is friction, but this nuclear fallout that’s being reported sounds like embellished reporting. Is it ok to trust Glazer and still question how severe this issue actually is? That isn’t denial.
Either way, I think it's pretty obvious that Wink's tenure as DC is going to be over at season's end. Stories like this don't just appear out of thin air. SOMEONE wanted it to be known that Daboll and Wink aren't on the same page.
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Don’t be in denial. Glazer reports it. It’s true. He is one of the most plugged in guys and his whole shtick now is to drop one news story a week. And this was his nugget this week. It’s definitely true and the fact dabs gave wink the game ball. I mean please, that has Hanlons fingerprints all over it
I don’t doubt there is friction, but this nuclear fallout that’s being reported sounds like embellished reporting. Is it ok to trust Glazer and still question how severe this issue actually is? That isn’t denial.
Need to say something about the shitty team in the biggest market.
2) Where there is smoke there is fire
3) Daboll is a bit of a hot head
4) Wink is old enough to not need that shit
5) Defense took over 6 weeks to play a decent game but was the recipient of most of the off season upgrades
6) Offense is worst I have seen in long time
I would bet Wink leaves in the off season.
Rift may have been quashed by beats out of respect, but once Glazer opened that bottle the heresay leaks start.
I really like Wink, but that slow start is not forgiveable and the Jets loss allowing points with 28 seconds and half the field to move was bad defensive play calling. A'Shawn and Nacho were huge upgrades at DT and run defense should have vastly improved. It did not. That is a big failure in my view.
Who's to say he isn't? Kafka isn't on the sidelines so there's no video of them in a "tiff" or whatever you want to call it. But there's ample evidence Daboll hasn't been thrilled with the play-calling on that side of the ball either.
At this point, I'd put Daboll in charge of calling plays like a bunch of other HCs are already doing, let him hire a DC he believes in, make any other changes to the staff (OL, ST, etc) and let him sink or swim.
Belichick and Saban's schtick is often imitated but never duplicated. They are all time greats, that's why they get away with it.
Martindale's from the old school, and doesn't put on airs - despite the composed demeanor. The Buddy Ryan school that got Gilbride punched in the face. Daboll giving Wink shit while his offense is historically and unexplainably bad likely caused this, and it sucks.
Wink's got a very specific scheme and they've spent the last 2 years giving him heavy input into what types of players he needs. And now this?
I'm looking for evidence that Daboll's the right guy and I desperately want to believe, but it's tough.
These guys don't have to like each other, they just need to work together.
Do you really think Daboll doesnt tear kafka a new asshole on a regular basis? You just dont see it because hes up in the booth.
"Mike Sando of The Athletic reports that Daboll’s use of the “Patriots Way” behind closed doors is what has led to a falling out with defensive coordinator Wink Martindale, despite what they and the players would have you believe.
“Daboll learned from Bill and Nick, and we all remember Nick undressing Lane Kiffin and Daboll himself at Alabama,” a veteran coach who knows members of the Giants’ staff told Sando. “A guy as established as Wink says, ‘You can yell at the young coaches, but not me.'”
What is it with former Patriots assistants and being so...headstrong and, dare I say, arrogant?
Personality clashes with a younger boss, nothing new here.
But it's Daboll's team. He's the boss for now. And it's not like the defense isn't kicking butt regularly. They beat bad teams. That's all really.
I'd be interested in Leslie Fraizer next season.
He said not only would Wink likely be gone, but maybe even in-season.
The Giants defense has been healthier by FAR than the offense and has not performed well most of the year. We have been burned by Dallas, Washington- though they didn't score the points, Miami, Seattle (with a banged up QB and many mistakes with a banged up OLINE) and even Arizona for the entire first half and start of the 3rd quarter. Let's not forget the Jets blunder at the end.
The offense has sucked but honestly we have had basically the entire OLINE reshuffled for weeks on end and playing guys off the street at some points. Our QB's have been hurt and playing poorly behind the Oline and our TE has missed a ton of time as well as Barkley missing time.
The defense has had LW, DL, KT, banks, McKinney, Pinnock, BO, Mcfadden etc.. It has been far healthier and still has had poor games and a lack of a killer instinct..
And this sort of thing only rears its ugly head, when a team is bad and is losing.
That's why they got along fine last year, and this year you can add their relationship (or lack thereof) to the rest of the disaster this season has been.
Wink may not be back, and there may be a rift - but boy these beats are just garbage. Either they know something but were too chicken-shit to share until Glazer did, or they are just fearful of missing out on the scoop so they just propagate the same story as everyone else but don't add anything new. Either way - the quality of the beats is at an all time low - thankfully we still have BBI
Nailed it.
I've read enough interviews with Glazer over the years to know that he double sources everything he reports, and that he will never burn a bridge to get a story. He's all about maintaining relationships. If he went with this, it's absolutely legit AND he was doing somebody a favor by putting it out there in that fashion.
So, then, you ask yourself: who wanted this out there in such a splashy fashion?