Two more reporters, confirm rift between Martindale and Daboll.
Mike Sando of The Athletic reports that Daboll’s use of the “Patriots Way” behind closed doors is what has led to a falling out with defensive coordinator Wink Martindale, despite what they and the players would have you believe.
“Daboll learned from Bill and Nick, and we all remember Nick undressing Lane Kiffin and Daboll himself at Alabama,” a veteran coach who knows members of the Giants’ staff told Sando. “A guy as established as Wink says, ‘You can yell at the young coaches, but not me.'”
ESPN’s Jordan Raanan, while appearing on the latest episode of Talkin’ Giants, also acknowledged a rift between Daboll and Martindale.
“This is just my opinion on this but he gets on Wink and he gets on him hard. He’s all over him,” Raanan said. “When you’re on this guy and you’re riding him hard, and you’re crushing his defense and questioning the things he’s doing, and the guy is looking across to the other side and he’s like, ‘Your offense is 32nd in the league. We can’t even move the ball. . . And you’re sitting here MFing me and giving me a hard time.’ That’s how the tension builds and that’s why we’re at where we’re at.”
Raanan also reports that others have acknowledged that Daboll is a “hard guy to work for.” “That is something that’s come out,” Raanan said. “I got a text yesterday from somebody out of complete nowhere that said (that).”
The bottom line here is that when Jay Glazer reports something, you can take that something to the bank. The issues between Daboll and Martindale are very real and it will come to a head sooner rather than later.
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He said not only would Wink likely be gone, but maybe even in-season.
I completely agree there is friction, but if its so bad that he's talking about leaving during the season, why wouldn't you do it during the bye week?
There's still an outside chance that they're going to be adults about the situation and do what's best for the team until year end. If Wink leaves then, which I don't want him to, then fine. I like him but he isn't the only good DC in the league and we have some in house guys that deserve a shot.
Still, even though I agree about Glazer being one of the 3 most reliable NFL sources, its very odd that not only did the beats seem shocked by this, but the players did too.
This offense couldn't score if their lives depended on it. When your defense is always on the field or playing like they can't give up even one score because they know the offense won't respond, they're gonna get tired and screwed up mentally. It's a miracle they're ranked 26th in defense PPG.
If I had to fire anybody Wink would be last on that list.
Daboll is the HC. Wink wants to be a HC and is certainly not someone who lacks in confidence.
When Wink sees what the offense is doing on the other side (and it has impacted his defense) you can see a conflict emerging especially if he thinks he is being singled out.
I don't think this existed before the season but I believe the Giants had Leslie Frazier in before training camp for a couple days. Maybe someone to keep a eye on.
It is easier for opposing offenses to accumulate more yards and points when the Giants are getting three and outs and punting the ball constantly. Defense has had its own issues, but not nearly as bad as the offense.
This offense couldn't score if their lives depended on it. When your defense is always on the field or playing like they can't give up even one score because they know the offense won't respond, they're gonna get tired and screwed up mentally. It's a miracle they're ranked 26th in defense PPG.
If I had to fire anybody Wink would be last on that list.
Did you not read above how bad the Giants defense ranks? I agree on Kafka. Been sour on his play calling since last year. But that is a different kettle of fish. Wink was given the largest booty of players and it is just as bad as last year. You would expect that getting A'Shawn and Nacho would clearly help the run defense...it hasn't. Even with Okereke and McFadden playing out of their minds they can't stop teams like the Patriots from running. Something is rotten in Denmark...
I think the offense being so bad is probably more of the issue.
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our defense is the only glimmer of hope we have...and that glimmer is small. Kafka is the one who should be getting shit on. It's amazing how ignorant people still are to data. We rank dead last in almost every offensive category and you're gonna get pissed at the D coordinator?
This offense couldn't score if their lives depended on it. When your defense is always on the field or playing like they can't give up even one score because they know the offense won't respond, they're gonna get tired and screwed up mentally. It's a miracle they're ranked 26th in defense PPG.
If I had to fire anybody Wink would be last on that list.
Did you not read above how bad the Giants defense ranks? I agree on Kafka. Been sour on his play calling since last year. But that is a different kettle of fish. Wink was given the largest booty of players and it is just as bad as last year. You would expect that getting A'Shawn and Nacho would clearly help the run defense...it hasn't. Even with Okereke and McFadden playing out of their minds they can't stop teams like the Patriots from running. Something is rotten in Denmark...
Lawrence was out against the Patriots. LW was traded. Top two DTs coming into the season not playing. You seriously can't figure out why the run defense was not as good without those two gone? Robinson and Nacho were signed as depth pieces.
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In comment 16308488 HoodieGelo said:
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our defense is the only glimmer of hope we have...and that glimmer is small. Kafka is the one who should be getting shit on. It's amazing how ignorant people still are to data. We rank dead last in almost every offensive category and you're gonna get pissed at the D coordinator?
This offense couldn't score if their lives depended on it. When your defense is always on the field or playing like they can't give up even one score because they know the offense won't respond, they're gonna get tired and screwed up mentally. It's a miracle they're ranked 26th in defense PPG.
If I had to fire anybody Wink would be last on that list.
Did you not read above how bad the Giants defense ranks? I agree on Kafka. Been sour on his play calling since last year. But that is a different kettle of fish. Wink was given the largest booty of players and it is just as bad as last year. You would expect that getting A'Shawn and Nacho would clearly help the run defense...it hasn't. Even with Okereke and McFadden playing out of their minds they can't stop teams like the Patriots from running. Something is rotten in Denmark...
Lawrence was out against the Patriots. LW was traded. Top two DTs coming into the season not playing. You seriously can't figure out why the run defense was not as good without those two gone? Robinson and Nacho were signed as depth pieces.
Seriously? The Patriots stink. You think the GIants were worried about Mac Jones passing? Then take any game, even with LW before the trade. Wink was given the wealth of players. His run defense sucks. The Jets final drive with no timeouts to Zach(worse than Mc Jones) Wilson....
They often have the expectation that they're held to a different standard
I think the offense being so bad is probably more of the issue.
That's true. I'm sure Jim Johnson, Dick LeBeau and Monte Kiffin were chewed out way into their senior years, but the whole "Patriots Way" thing is just weird to me.
These guys don't have to like each other, they just need to work together.
+1
Same as with Daniel Jones, I don't see the rest of the NFL quaking at the thought of facing a Wink Martindale defense.
It isn’t. Doesn’t make his take on things gospel though. And what’s being reported anyway, that Wino may not be here next year? I think that was obvious after the horrific start, same for Kafka. And I think that’s my point, the reports seem to be embellishing what’s already fairly obvious. Making it seem like Wink is about to fight Daboll is unnecessary.
These fuckin guys walk in thinking they're cowboys and theyve never unholstered their revolver in their lives.
It's dangerous. And it wears thin. Literally every one of these MFers that think they got all the answers cuz they worked for a guy end up on the side of the road. All of them.
You do know that people that "vent" have lower risk.....
There's probably is a rift,but I'm not sure I'm buying these versions
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And that is going to mellow him out.
You do know that people that "vent" have lower risk.....
How about abdominal bodyfat as a heart attack risk?
I'm not into bodyshaming, but he is in a high-stress job, and I hope he is taking care of himself.
If you want a coaching staff that you can yell at without getting pushback, find different coaches.
Good leaders find the right way to communicate with people and don't take a one size fits all approach.
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In comment 16308600 Ivan15 said:
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And that is going to mellow him out.
You do know that people that "vent" have lower risk.....
How about abdominal bodyfat as a heart attack risk?
I'm not into bodyshaming, but he is in a high-stress job, and I hope he is taking care of himself.
My post stands because that was what you were saying. Yes he is vastly overweight in a high stress job. Venting releases stress.
I do look at his build and "worry".
This is probably the one thing I do not like about Daboll. Hope it does not bite him in the ass.
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our defense is the only glimmer of hope we have...and that glimmer is small. Kafka is the one who should be getting shit on. It's amazing how ignorant people still are to data. We rank dead last in almost every offensive category and you're gonna get pissed at the D coordinator?
This offense couldn't score if their lives depended on it. When your defense is always on the field or playing like they can't give up even one score because they know the offense won't respond, they're gonna get tired and screwed up mentally. It's a miracle they're ranked 26th in defense PPG.
If I had to fire anybody Wink would be last on that list.
Did you not read above how bad the Giants defense ranks? I agree on Kafka. Been sour on his play calling since last year. But that is a different kettle of fish. Wink was given the largest booty of players and it is just as bad as last year. You would expect that getting A'Shawn and Nacho would clearly help the run defense...it hasn't. Even with Okereke and McFadden playing out of their minds they can't stop teams like the Patriots from running. Something is rotten in Denmark...
No I agree, I guess my anger is more towards the lack of action against Kafka. I'm not saying Wink is the answer, but hearing reports like this make you feel like Kafka is flying under the radar and that's what frustrates me.
2) Where there is smoke there is fire
3) Daboll is a bit of a hot head
4) Wink is old enough to not need that shit
5) Defense took over 6 weeks to play a decent game but was the recipient of most of the off season upgrades
6) Offense is worst I have seen in long time
I would bet Wink leaves in the off season.
Rift may have been quashed by beats out of respect, but once Glazer opened that bottle the heresay leaks start.
I really like Wink, but that slow start is not forgiveable and the Jets loss allowing points with 28 seconds and half the field to move was bad defensive play calling. A'Shawn and Nacho were huge upgrades at DT and run defense should have vastly improved. It did not. That is a big failure in my view.
Agree with you point for point here. I liked the Wink Defense beacause it blitzed and applied pressure as opposed to Grahams bend but dont break. Thing I don't like is in 6 games Winks defense has looked like shite against the Eagles and Cowboys, where it really matters.
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Glazer is very tied into the Giants organization and has been a reputable source for years. Plus a ton of best writers are coming out with the same speculation. Daboll also has a history of not having strained relationships. It’s not hard to connect the dots.
It isn’t. Doesn’t make his take on things gospel though. And what’s being reported anyway, that Wino may not be here next year? I think that was obvious after the horrific start, same for Kafka. And I think that’s my point, the reports seem to be embellishing what’s already fairly obvious. Making it seem like Wink is about to fight Daboll is unnecessary.
why is it unnecessary. If that is the truth report it. Plus, Glazer's best friend is Strahan who definitely is still dialed into the org. In addition, I know people love to get on the you are overblowing it bandwagon, but anyone who thought that was a normal interaction between Wink and Daboll in Dallas is either niave or ignorant. Not only did he seem to be in Wink's face before halftime, he started in before the second half. If you could not get your business done in the locker room then I think it is pretty obvious there is some friction.
Daboll is billed as some offensive and QB genius and frankly his offense sucks. And wasn't some amazing thing last season either.
I think I'd get a little pissed off too if I had decades of experience and I'm getting dressed down by someone who knows about 100 times less than me about defense. And the supposed thing he does know isn't even any good either.
As would be the case with any other endeavor, he is probably still growing into the position and by, say, his seventh or eighth year, would probably have learned and acted differently towards Wink.
From Dabol's perspective, the D has played well, especially lately, and the players love Wink. It is young and should be better with another draft class. A new DC brings risk.
If there is a parting of ways, then we'll know these reports are not exaggerated. Because otherwise a split makes no sense. Hope it doesn't happen.
The steelers make the playoffs or at least compete with an absolutely brutal offense. You don't hear their DC crying about offense.
Daboll is billed as some offensive and QB genius and frankly his offense sucks. And wasn't some amazing thing last season either.
I think I'd get a little pissed off too if I had decades of experience and I'm getting dressed down by someone who knows about 100 times less than me about defense. And the supposed thing he does know isn't even any good either.
I seriously doubt Wink knows 100x more about defense than Daboll. If Daboll didn't know defenses and how they work, how could he operate an offense to attack a defense. Winks specialty is defense and Daboll offense. But both need to know how the other works or else they get their butts handed to them. Daboll isn't some Johnny come lately. He's been a coach for 25 years with a lot of time with some excellent HCs, OCs and DCs.
There is a reason Wink hasn't been a HC, yet. A lot of great DCs never got to be HC.
From Dabol's perspective, the D has played well, especially lately, and the players love Wink. It is young and should be better with another draft class. A new DC brings risk.
If there is a parting of ways, then we'll know these reports are not exaggerated. Because otherwise a split makes no sense. Hope it doesn't happen.
why would you doubt that. There will probably be anywhere from 6-8 defensive coordinator openings--why wouldn't Martindale get one? I think he would be at the top of the list
Belichick and Saban's schtick is often imitated but never duplicated. They are all time greats, that's why they get away with it.
Martindale's from the old school, and doesn't put on airs - despite the composed demeanor. The Buddy Ryan school that got Gilbride punched in the face. Daboll giving Wink shit while his offense is historically and unexplainably bad likely caused this, and it sucks.
Wink's got a very specific scheme and they've spent the last 2 years giving him heavy input into what types of players he needs. And now this?
I'm looking for evidence that Daboll's the right guy and I desperately want to believe, but it's tough.
+1
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That looks to be more on Wink than Daboll. I read that as Wink thinking he's above it. Didn't Parcells regularly chew out Belichick? Comes with the role.
I think the offense being so bad is probably more of the issue.
That's true. I'm sure Jim Johnson, Dick LeBeau and Monte Kiffin were chewed out way into their senior years, but the whole "Patriots Way" thing is just weird to me.
Those three gentlemen deserve respect when spoken to. Even if there's beef, they've earned their stripes. Wink does too. Dabes has some growing up to do.
As would be the case with any other endeavor, he is probably still growing into the position and by, say, his seventh or eighth year, would probably have learned and acted differently towards Wink.
+1