Taking a step back…that Eric has to pen this about a player going into his SIXTH season in ‘24 kinda says it all. And don’t give me the Simms comps…different era, game, & business.
Serious question - what other organizations in the NFL would be this magnanimous by giving their mediocre QB a sixth-year audition?
I disagree to a point, I know teams move pieces all the time, I get it, but the Eagles, Cowboys, and Chiefs, year in and year out set the bar. SO how do they do it if pieces keep moving? Dak Prescot? I don't think he is a world beater, but I bet we'd take that offensive line in a heartbeat? The boys have fallen short of the big show, but they at least give their fans something to be hopeful about. How we doing?
Last year you could see that the Giants didn't trust Jones to throw the ball most of the year. It was painful to watch. He then picked up late against crappy Ds late in the year.
I guess the hope was that he would make progress with a better offense around him. But, that didn't happen.
be "the answer" at QB or horrible, horrible. The truth is he is probably an OK QB, we could do better but it ain't so easy to do that. I will believe in the Tommy DV story if he can continue for the rest of the year and we score more than 10 points per game.
So the Giants COULD do better than Jones, but it's no slam dunk and part of it depends on what you have to give up and how they rate these young QBs.
My take is it's possible to win a Super Bowl with Jones, but he would have to get better at post-snap processing and anticipating open receivers, and evaluating the whole field. But he might not be able to do that (look, no one really knows), he has to avoid injury maybe with a better OL and he would need to overall have a strong supporting cast. If they could trade up for Maye or something the truth is he might not work out, and the question will be what you have to give up.
So I kind of feel like Shoen is genuinely undecided at this point, and I personally don't feel strongly one way or the other. I'm in the let's see how it plays out mode, and I genuinely believe Shoen is in the best place to make that kind of decision. It's a little unsatisfying at this point but might be the reality
On all of these highlights I’m seeing and throws I’m watching for Daniels, he almost has zero push from his lower body on these throws. Watch it carefully. His legs and base are tiny, and he’s putting all of his “throw” with his arm. Which is what others have said on his scouting report.
Which is why, in my opinion, he does not have the ability to make all the throws in the NFL. Having a quick release is great. That means nothing to me. His mechanics and power are so off and he’s a long way away, IMO.
most of Kdavies post above but would add his increased cost.
You don't get rid of a QB just for cost but if you are going to pay a QB then it has to be for a special QB. When you factor in the injury history then a really special QB. Hard to make this argument for Jones.
Just be right on the next QB selection and take care of him better by getting better players around him (especially OL) and other spots. I also think the coaching/scheme/team building emphasis may have some issues.
IMO it obvious that somewhere in the draft , probably higher rather than lower , NY will pick a QB they think can compete with Jones for starter. If Jones plays great , he stays until he doesn’t, then the next guy steps in. Jones needs competition to fire him up .
On all of these highlights I’m seeing and throws I’m watching for Daniels, he almost has zero push from his lower body on these throws. Watch it carefully. His legs and base are tiny, and he’s putting all of his “throw” with his arm. Which is what others have said on his scouting report.
Which is why, in my opinion, he does not have the ability to make all the throws in the NFL. Having a quick release is great. That means nothing to me. His mechanics and power are so off and he’s a long way away, IMO.
Well that is a silly look. He is making those throws even without using his lower body. You don't think that a NFL QB coach wouldn't correct that?
Daniels is not a “brilliant” dual threat prospect.
Watch him throw, and I’m not just walking about the release. His mechanics right now are not NFL caliber.
What the hell are NFL caliber mechanics? Jones taps the ball when he throws. LJax typically doesn't set his feet and throws mostly with his arm. Josh Allen throws off his back foot half the time with a flick of the wrist. Tua looks like he's throwing a javelin.
Daniels has a lightening release and can throw the ball at a variety of angles with pace.
Sorry, and no offense, but you are high on this one...
Lots of folks have said well we are in a great spot for QB.
We are also in a great spot for a dynamic edge or WR, and OL in round 2. Something to be said for those positions while we continue to build up the roster.
As we get closer to draft time, i think we will have a much clearer picture on the Williams/Maye vs everyone else debate. Daniels is the hot name right now but I really don't think he'll be viewed as a top 10 prospect when all is said and done.
The QB for LSU has 50 total TDs in the SEC. The SEC where he's lit up Alabama, Florida, Ole Miss, Mizzu, Miss St, Auburn, Texas A&M.
That's 40 TDs passing and 10 rushing TDs. Just think about that production.
Daniels is a brilliant dual-threat prospect. I expect him to go #1.
You do realize the majority of those defenses are awful? Its not the same SEC as it was 5-10 years ago... lol
Daniels is not a “brilliant” dual threat prospect.
Watch him throw, and I’m not just walking about the release. His mechanics right now are not NFL caliber.
What the hell are NFL caliber mechanics? Jones taps the ball when he throws. LJax typically doesn't set his feet and throws mostly with his arm. Josh Allen throws off his back foot half the time with a flick of the wrist. Tua looks like he's throwing a javelin.
Daniels has a lightening release and can throw the ball at a variety of angles with pace.
Sorry, and no offense, but you are high on this one...
bw, here's a recent scouting report from November 2023:
Jayden Daniels Draft Profile | LSU, QB Scouting Report
Jayden Daniels burst back onto the scene at LSU in 2022 and 2023 after fading into obscurity in Tempe, but what does his NFL Draft scouting report look like?
By
Dalton Miller
November 21, 2023 | 2:30 PM EST
Jayden Daniels had the LSU Tigers ranked fifth in the nation prior to the 2023 college football season. There’s a chance that the fifth-year senior is the best quarterback in the SEC, but what does his NFL Draft projection look like, and how does his scouting report read?
PFN Merchandise
Jayden Daniels Draft Profile and Measurements
Height: 6’4″
Weight: 210
Position: Quarterback
School: LSU
Current Year: Senior
Life is funny sometimes. In 2019, two “Slim Reapers” burst onto the college football scene. One of those players was Alabama’s DeVonta Smith, who caught 68 passes for 1,256 yards and 14 touchdowns while standing at six feet tall and weighing 160 pounds soaking wet.
The other was Daniels down in Tempe, Ariz. Standing 6’3″, the true freshman was listed at 175 pounds. Narrow shoulders and a paper-thin frame made him look even smaller than he was. But the young passer burst onto the scene as a freshman, throwing for 2,943 yards, 17 touchdowns, and only two interceptions. Daniels added 355 yards and three more TDs on the ground that year.
After struggling through the COVID-19-shortened 2020 season and again in 2021, Daniels transferred to LSU for 2022. After a surprising SEC West-winning season, the transfer QB was back in NFL Draft scopes. He performed well in 2022.
But he exploded in 2023. He is the likely recipient of the Heisman Trophy in 2023.
Jayden Daniels Scouting Report
Strengths
Manipulates second and third-level defenders
Spot zone coverage annihilator
Great quick game feel
Intermediate rhythm throws are automatic
Creativity to escape pressure
Lack of panic under pressure
Disciplined feet create throwing hallways vs. pressure
Quick release
Explosive lateral mover with good vision
Big-play threat every time he carries the football. Electric runner
Weaknesses
Moderate velocity
Absolutely no contact balance
Inconsistent release sporadically leads to horrendous wobblers
Has “on” and “off” days regarding ball placement
Post-snap coverage rotations can catch him by surprise
Takes far too many unnecessary hits
As we get closer to draft time, i think we will have a much clearer picture on the Williams/Maye vs everyone else debate. Daniels is the hot name right now but I really don't think he'll be viewed as a top 10 prospect when all is said and done.
The QB for LSU has 50 total TDs in the SEC. The SEC where he's lit up Alabama, Florida, Ole Miss, Mizzu, Miss St, Auburn, Texas A&M.
That's 40 TDs passing and 10 rushing TDs. Just think about that production.
Daniels is a brilliant dual-threat prospect. I expect him to go #1.
You do realize the majority of those defenses are awful? Its not the same SEC as it was 5-10 years ago... lol
People really need to stop looking at stats as the #1 measure for a college player. Numerous examples of players going extremely high due to this reason and ultimately failing in the NFL.
Matt Stafford had mediocre stats at Georgia. He went #1 for a reason.
But it is very likely that he is next year's starter; even if they draft his replacement. If the team cuts him next year, the dead cap will be around $70M. I said this on other threads, if he plays well and they've drafted his replacement then that's a good problem to have.
As we get closer to draft time, i think we will have a much clearer picture on the Williams/Maye vs everyone else debate. Daniels is the hot name right now but I really don't think he'll be viewed as a top 10 prospect when all is said and done.
The QB for LSU has 50 total TDs in the SEC. The SEC where he's lit up Alabama, Florida, Ole Miss, Mizzu, Miss St, Auburn, Texas A&M.
That's 40 TDs passing and 10 rushing TDs. Just think about that production.
Daniels is a brilliant dual-threat prospect. I expect him to go #1.
You do realize the majority of those defenses are awful? Its not the same SEC as it was 5-10 years ago... lol
I sorta agree with this - scouts aren't looking at college stats. They are projecting what he can do at the pro level.
Having said that - the NFL QB (and offenses) has changed dramatically over the last 5-7 years, and they can fit a variety of differently styled QBs.
There's a long way to go - combines, individual workouts, interviews, etc.......
Looking back and reading Lance Zeurlein's scouting report of Daniel Jones from 2019...it is essentially dead on:
Strengths
Benefitted working under QB guru David Cutcliffe at Duke
Did more with less at skill positions
Quick worker through progressions
Early recognition of deep ball opportunities and feathers throws into the target
Adjusts pre-snap plan to blitz and exploits hot-read opportunities
Consistent footwork from pocket with feet following eyes
Outstanding accuracy on intermediate throws
Uses fastball when he needs it, but generally throws with touch
Drives field-side throws with velocity
Courage to hang in the pocket and throw despite impending blow
Completion percentage hurt by high drop rate
Displays feel for pressure off the edge
Good athlete with scrambling ability to move the chains
Slick pocket slider with ability to keep searching for target or flee for yardage
Weaknesses
Thin in his lower body
Had 12 passes batted down at line of scrimmage in 2018
Benefitted from heavy play-action/RPO scheme
Incessant patting of the ball through progressions
Waits an extra step before cutting it loose too often
Average release speed slowed by small windup
Attempts throws into some impossible windows
Needs to work ahead of schedule more often on next level
Succumbs to off-platform tosses rather than working into better positioning
Showed willingness to throw it up for grabs rather than take sack
Loose ball handling in face of pressure leads to fumbles
Too much bravado as a runner
Took licks when slides or dashes out of bounds were options
He goes through progressions quickly? He recognized opportunities for deep shots? He's welcome to start doing these things at the pro level any time.
I will never understand the attachment to this player. The same people don't hesitate to rip other players on the team, but young Daniel is treated like a martyr. I will never understand it.
But it is very likely that he is next year's starter; even if they draft his replacement. If the team cuts him next year, the dead cap will be around $70M. I said this on other threads, if he plays well and they've drafted his replacement then that's a good problem to have.
are going to have to figure out all the reasons for Daniels enormous jump in production from his LSU 2022 season to 2023.
4.2 jump in YPA. 17 TD's to 40. 1000 more yards in passing.
2.4 increase in YPC.
You see jumps in production going from 1st year starting to years after. Certainly talent around the QB can factor for any season. But this Daniels season really stands out to his previous years.
after reading this, and I'm pretty certain someone(s) will.
The debate will only rage on as the Giants drop further in the draft order, and give the brass a potential out on seriously pursuing a QB in the '24 draft.
No more half-measures, no more punting on obvious mistakes, man up and move forward with some fookin' courage.
I do find the lengths that people go to defend Jones mystifying. I really don’t get the attachment. Yes, he seems like a good dude, but so do a lot of guys.
It's fair.
In hindsight, I never had an issue with passing on the 5th year. I did think they were going to Franchise him. I think, they think, that they could have Barkley and Jones back in the scenario that played out. They bet on Jones getting better.
However, his injury record is the problem. This is the risk with any "running" qb on your team. RGIII as mentioned, is a perfect example.
I will be surprised if they go QB early in Round 1. I can see them doing the hedge and trading up in the late Rd1 or just staying and drafting in round 2.
They just have too many needs right now. It would not shock me if they get a QB in Rd 2 or 3 as a development QB. They let DJ start if he's healthy then, they keep DeVito as a backup.
after reading this, and I'm pretty certain someone(s) will.
The debate will only rage on as the Giants drop further in the draft order, and give the brass a potential out on seriously pursuing a QB in the '24 draft.
No more half-measures, no more punting on obvious mistakes, man up and move forward with some fookin' courage.
"whether they realize it or not, Schoen and Daboll will be on thin ice in 2024.".
They BETTER realize it. And gambling on Jones health/ growth is not exactly job security.
Blueworm, mentioned if something along the lines of "if you can't market success, market hope".
That's exactly WHY they should move on NOW. Move heaven and earth to draft a new QB. It buys you more good will AND time from ownership.
If they put all their chips with Jones and he flames out (which is what his career has been up until now), then are likely gone after next season.
Do they really want to take that chance?
There's a reason why they are HEAVILLY scouting this QB class, putting a lot of time AND resources into it.
I would be SHOCKED if they don't take a QB at #1 and if it means using draft capital to get in position, so be it!
so my opinions on Nabers (and Daniels) need considerable updating. I've touted Odunze here for at least two seasons, love the player. Not sure he's a top 10 pick yet tho.
That sucks that your web browser forces you to open and read threads without you making the conscious decision to do so. Have you tried turning your device off and turning it back on again?
like Jones more than most here, but his play never justified the huge contract he received. The correct move was to use the FT on him to see if he could duplicate last year and because he already had already suffered a concussion and a serious neck injury. Now he's had another neck injury and a torn ACL.
His injury history by itself means that he can't be the future QB of the Giants. So draft a QB in the first or second round and cut Jones after the 2024 season, even though doing so means a $22M cap hit. His contract is a classic "sunk cost." There's nothing the Giants can do about it, just like with Golladay and Solder.
so my opinions on Nabers (and Daniels) need considerable updating. I've touted Odunze here for at least two seasons, love the player. Not sure he's a top 10 pick yet tho.
Trust me on this. Watch Brian Thomas, Jr the "other WR" for LSU. He's unbelievable with his size, catch radius, and explosion.
On all of these highlights I’m seeing and throws I’m watching for Daniels, he almost has zero push from his lower body on these throws. Watch it carefully. His legs and base are tiny, and he’s putting all of his “throw” with his arm. Which is what others have said on his scouting report.
Which is why, in my opinion, he does not have the ability to make all the throws in the NFL. Having a quick release is great. That means nothing to me. His mechanics and power are so off and he’s a long way away, IMO.
Thanks for responding.
When I see Daniels play, he is an exciting prospect on many fronts. While reviews may reveal some mechanics that need work, his passing prowess is exponentially better than a year ago. His developmental work this past offseason has really paid off and I don't think his reviewers have caught up yet with how much his game has improved with his head/arm versus just his feet.
I think come next March everybody will be offering him up as not only a sure top 3 pick, but likely #1 overall.
Looking back and reading Lance Zeurlein's scouting report of Daniel Jones from 2019...it is essentially dead on:
Strengths
Benefitted working under QB guru David Cutcliffe at Duke
Did more with less at skill positions
Quick worker through progressions
Early recognition of deep ball opportunities and feathers throws into the target Adjusts pre-snap plan to blitz and exploits hot-read opportunities
Consistent footwork from pocket with feet following eyes
Outstanding accuracy on intermediate throws
Uses fastball when he needs it, but generally throws with touch Drives field-side throws with velocity
Courage to hang in the pocket and throw despite impending blow
Completion percentage hurt by high drop rate Displays feel for pressure off the edge
Good athlete with scrambling ability to move the chains
Slick pocket slider with ability to keep searching for target or flee for yardage
Weaknesses
Thin in his lower body
Had 12 passes batted down at line of scrimmage in 2018
Benefitted from heavy play-action/RPO scheme
Incessant patting of the ball through progressions
Waits an extra step before cutting it loose too often
Average release speed slowed by small windup
Attempts throws into some impossible windows
Needs to work ahead of schedule more often on next level
Succumbs to off-platform tosses rather than working into better positioning
Showed willingness to throw it up for grabs rather than take sack
Loose ball handling in face of pressure leads to fumbles
Too much bravado as a runner
Took licks when slides or dashes out of bounds were options
I agree that this is a pretty accurate scouting report, although a couple of the strengths stand out to me as questionable now after years of observation (bolded above):
Adjusts pre-snap plan to blitz and exploits hot-read opportunities
This supposed strength has never translated to the NFL, so much so that I question the veracity of the scouting report on this particular element. Just this year there were a few instances of DJ having poor pre-snap blitz recognition and no feel for the resulting hot-read opportunities.
Drives field-side throws with velocity
This one feels accurate, but the reason why it stands out to me is that Daboll and Kafka tend to run the passing game almost exclusively to the boundary side. Even if field side arm strength is a plus for DJ, it's wasted in this offense anyway.
Displays feel for pressure off the edge
This has felt inaccurate to me from DJ's rookie year on and has not improved by any substantial measure in the years since. But even going back to 2019, the fumbles from DJ have always seemed like they were at least partially due to DJ not sensing the backside pressure coming off the edge, and we still saw that happen against Seattle this year. I don't know if this "strength" was ever true and I don't think it's true now.
And then there are the listed weaknesses - are there any that we can definitively say have improved in five years? Maybe the willingness to throw into impossible windows, but that one seems to have come at the expense of becoming a bit too risk-averse in the process. It's tough for a lot of QBs to find the right balance on that, and I think DJ's swings have been a bit more volatile.
That sucks that your web browser forces you to open and read threads without you making the conscious decision to do so. Have you tried turning your device off and turning it back on again?
It's a joke, not a wanker. Don't take it so hard.
You and your jokes. I always forget how funny you are!
Jones was a top half of the league QB last year, but is not a "franchise QB" no matter what your definition of the word is. Giants had a later pick in the round. Not a very deep QB draft. I don't blame Schoen for re-signing Jones, getting him some weapons, and trying to improve the OL. That's the smart play at the time. The contract is large, but reality is that's the going rate for a QB who was playing at that level.
Now, the Giants have a higher pick, multiple 2nd rounders, and a deep QB draft staring at them. Plus Jones injuries have made in clear that they need to bring in another young QB.
are going to have to figure out all the reasons for Daniels enormous jump in production from his LSU 2022 season to 2023.
4.2 jump in YPA. 17 TD's to 40. 1000 more yards in passing.
2.4 increase in YPC.
You see jumps in production going from 1st year starting to years after. Certainly talent around the QB can factor for any season. But this Daniels season really stands out to his previous years.
Burrow, I believe, also had a big bump in his metrics from his 1st to 2nd (final year) at LSU.
As a freshman as Arizona State, Daniels had an excellent debut. He outplayed Herbert when ASU beat the Ducks (who were #6).
Things started to fall apart for the entire ASU program when they got called out for recruiting violations and Daniel's mom was accused of coordinating for the payments of travel for recruits and their parents.
Serious question - what other organizations in the NFL would be this magnanimous by giving their mediocre QB a sixth-year audition?
Watch him throw, and I’m not just walking about the release. His mechanics right now are not NFL caliber.
Can you be more specific? What is his arm/body doing wrong?
You cannot just look at stats and assume that the player is going to be awesome in the pros.
I guess the hope was that he would make progress with a better offense around him. But, that didn't happen.
The Giants have to move on.
So the Giants COULD do better than Jones, but it's no slam dunk and part of it depends on what you have to give up and how they rate these young QBs.
My take is it's possible to win a Super Bowl with Jones, but he would have to get better at post-snap processing and anticipating open receivers, and evaluating the whole field. But he might not be able to do that (look, no one really knows), he has to avoid injury maybe with a better OL and he would need to overall have a strong supporting cast. If they could trade up for Maye or something the truth is he might not work out, and the question will be what you have to give up.
So I kind of feel like Shoen is genuinely undecided at this point, and I personally don't feel strongly one way or the other. I'm in the let's see how it plays out mode, and I genuinely believe Shoen is in the best place to make that kind of decision. It's a little unsatisfying at this point but might be the reality
On all of these highlights I’m seeing and throws I’m watching for Daniels, he almost has zero push from his lower body on these throws. Watch it carefully. His legs and base are tiny, and he’s putting all of his “throw” with his arm. Which is what others have said on his scouting report.
Which is why, in my opinion, he does not have the ability to make all the throws in the NFL. Having a quick release is great. That means nothing to me. His mechanics and power are so off and he’s a long way away, IMO.
You cannot just look at stats and assume that the player is going to be awesome in the pros.
How do you know he isn't a starter quality? He literally had his first NFL practice less than 24 hours ago
Quote:
Hendon Hooker threw for 5 TDs against Alabama, yet he is not a NFL starting caliber quarterback.
You cannot just look at stats and assume that the player is going to be awesome in the pros.
How do you know he isn't a starter quality? He literally had his first NFL practice less than 24 hours ago
Hooker will be 26 in January.
Highly doubtful he becomes a good NFL starter.
You don't get rid of a QB just for cost but if you are going to pay a QB then it has to be for a special QB. When you factor in the injury history then a really special QB. Hard to make this argument for Jones.
Just be right on the next QB selection and take care of him better by getting better players around him (especially OL) and other spots. I also think the coaching/scheme/team building emphasis may have some issues.
On all of these highlights I’m seeing and throws I’m watching for Daniels, he almost has zero push from his lower body on these throws. Watch it carefully. His legs and base are tiny, and he’s putting all of his “throw” with his arm. Which is what others have said on his scouting report.
Which is why, in my opinion, he does not have the ability to make all the throws in the NFL. Having a quick release is great. That means nothing to me. His mechanics and power are so off and he’s a long way away, IMO.
Well that is a silly look. He is making those throws even without using his lower body. You don't think that a NFL QB coach wouldn't correct that?
Watch him throw, and I’m not just walking about the release. His mechanics right now are not NFL caliber.
What the hell are NFL caliber mechanics? Jones taps the ball when he throws. LJax typically doesn't set his feet and throws mostly with his arm. Josh Allen throws off his back foot half the time with a flick of the wrist. Tua looks like he's throwing a javelin.
Daniels has a lightening release and can throw the ball at a variety of angles with pace.
Sorry, and no offense, but you are high on this one...
We are also in a great spot for a dynamic edge or WR, and OL in round 2. Something to be said for those positions while we continue to build up the roster.
Quote:
As we get closer to draft time, i think we will have a much clearer picture on the Williams/Maye vs everyone else debate. Daniels is the hot name right now but I really don't think he'll be viewed as a top 10 prospect when all is said and done.
The QB for LSU has 50 total TDs in the SEC. The SEC where he's lit up Alabama, Florida, Ole Miss, Mizzu, Miss St, Auburn, Texas A&M.
That's 40 TDs passing and 10 rushing TDs. Just think about that production.
Daniels is a brilliant dual-threat prospect. I expect him to go #1.
You do realize the majority of those defenses are awful? Its not the same SEC as it was 5-10 years ago... lol
I could buy that if they have to defer to Mara's prototype QB for the "mean NY market"...
Quote:
Daniels is not a “brilliant” dual threat prospect.
Watch him throw, and I’m not just walking about the release. His mechanics right now are not NFL caliber.
What the hell are NFL caliber mechanics? Jones taps the ball when he throws. LJax typically doesn't set his feet and throws mostly with his arm. Josh Allen throws off his back foot half the time with a flick of the wrist. Tua looks like he's throwing a javelin.
Daniels has a lightening release and can throw the ball at a variety of angles with pace.
Sorry, and no offense, but you are high on this one...
bw, here's a recent scouting report from November 2023:
Jayden Daniels Draft Profile | LSU, QB Scouting Report
Jayden Daniels burst back onto the scene at LSU in 2022 and 2023 after fading into obscurity in Tempe, but what does his NFL Draft scouting report look like?
By
Dalton Miller
November 21, 2023 | 2:30 PM EST
Jayden Daniels had the LSU Tigers ranked fifth in the nation prior to the 2023 college football season. There’s a chance that the fifth-year senior is the best quarterback in the SEC, but what does his NFL Draft projection look like, and how does his scouting report read?
PFN Merchandise
Jayden Daniels Draft Profile and Measurements
Height: 6’4″
Weight: 210
Position: Quarterback
School: LSU
Current Year: Senior
Life is funny sometimes. In 2019, two “Slim Reapers” burst onto the college football scene. One of those players was Alabama’s DeVonta Smith, who caught 68 passes for 1,256 yards and 14 touchdowns while standing at six feet tall and weighing 160 pounds soaking wet.
The other was Daniels down in Tempe, Ariz. Standing 6’3″, the true freshman was listed at 175 pounds. Narrow shoulders and a paper-thin frame made him look even smaller than he was. But the young passer burst onto the scene as a freshman, throwing for 2,943 yards, 17 touchdowns, and only two interceptions. Daniels added 355 yards and three more TDs on the ground that year.
After struggling through the COVID-19-shortened 2020 season and again in 2021, Daniels transferred to LSU for 2022. After a surprising SEC West-winning season, the transfer QB was back in NFL Draft scopes. He performed well in 2022.
But he exploded in 2023. He is the likely recipient of the Heisman Trophy in 2023.
Jayden Daniels Scouting Report
Strengths
Manipulates second and third-level defenders
Spot zone coverage annihilator
Great quick game feel
Intermediate rhythm throws are automatic
Creativity to escape pressure
Lack of panic under pressure
Disciplined feet create throwing hallways vs. pressure
Quick release
Explosive lateral mover with good vision
Big-play threat every time he carries the football. Electric runner
Weaknesses
Moderate velocity
Absolutely no contact balance
Inconsistent release sporadically leads to horrendous wobblers
Has “on” and “off” days regarding ball placement
Post-snap coverage rotations can catch him by surprise
Takes far too many unnecessary hits
Quote:
In comment 16308464 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
As we get closer to draft time, i think we will have a much clearer picture on the Williams/Maye vs everyone else debate. Daniels is the hot name right now but I really don't think he'll be viewed as a top 10 prospect when all is said and done.
The QB for LSU has 50 total TDs in the SEC. The SEC where he's lit up Alabama, Florida, Ole Miss, Mizzu, Miss St, Auburn, Texas A&M.
That's 40 TDs passing and 10 rushing TDs. Just think about that production.
Daniels is a brilliant dual-threat prospect. I expect him to go #1.
You do realize the majority of those defenses are awful? Its not the same SEC as it was 5-10 years ago... lol
Yes, it is better....
Matt Stafford had mediocre stats at Georgia. He went #1 for a reason.
Quote:
In comment 16308464 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
As we get closer to draft time, i think we will have a much clearer picture on the Williams/Maye vs everyone else debate. Daniels is the hot name right now but I really don't think he'll be viewed as a top 10 prospect when all is said and done.
The QB for LSU has 50 total TDs in the SEC. The SEC where he's lit up Alabama, Florida, Ole Miss, Mizzu, Miss St, Auburn, Texas A&M.
That's 40 TDs passing and 10 rushing TDs. Just think about that production.
Daniels is a brilliant dual-threat prospect. I expect him to go #1.
You do realize the majority of those defenses are awful? Its not the same SEC as it was 5-10 years ago... lol
I sorta agree with this - scouts aren't looking at college stats. They are projecting what he can do at the pro level.
Having said that - the NFL QB (and offenses) has changed dramatically over the last 5-7 years, and they can fit a variety of differently styled QBs.
There's a long way to go - combines, individual workouts, interviews, etc.......
really hit me. I can't believe he's going to be entering year 6. It feels like he's in his third year still.
That one line might have changed my entire perspective.
Josh Allen played at Wyoming.
The rookie DB who didn't know to keep his mouth shut:
"We knew he liked to stare down his first target."
I've only heard that about QBs who have not succeeded at this level, like Brady Quinn.
The rookie DB who didn't know to keep his mouth shut:
"We knew he liked to stare down his first target."
I've only heard that about QBs who have not succeeded at this level, like Brady Quinn.
The Eagles DBs said the same thing last year after the playoff game.
Why should he keep his mouth shut. He ate Jones' lunch.
Strengths
Benefitted working under QB guru David Cutcliffe at Duke
Did more with less at skill positions
Quick worker through progressions
Early recognition of deep ball opportunities and feathers throws into the target
Adjusts pre-snap plan to blitz and exploits hot-read opportunities
Consistent footwork from pocket with feet following eyes
Outstanding accuracy on intermediate throws
Uses fastball when he needs it, but generally throws with touch
Drives field-side throws with velocity
Courage to hang in the pocket and throw despite impending blow
Completion percentage hurt by high drop rate
Displays feel for pressure off the edge
Good athlete with scrambling ability to move the chains
Slick pocket slider with ability to keep searching for target or flee for yardage
Weaknesses
Thin in his lower body
Had 12 passes batted down at line of scrimmage in 2018
Benefitted from heavy play-action/RPO scheme
Incessant patting of the ball through progressions
Waits an extra step before cutting it loose too often
Average release speed slowed by small windup
Attempts throws into some impossible windows
Needs to work ahead of schedule more often on next level
Succumbs to off-platform tosses rather than working into better positioning
Showed willingness to throw it up for grabs rather than take sack
Loose ball handling in face of pressure leads to fumbles
Too much bravado as a runner
Took licks when slides or dashes out of bounds were options
I will never understand the attachment to this player. The same people don't hesitate to rip other players on the team, but young Daniel is treated like a martyr. I will never understand it.
They would cut him in 2025 for a dead cap of 22M.
4.2 jump in YPA. 17 TD's to 40. 1000 more yards in passing.
2.4 increase in YPC.
You see jumps in production going from 1st year starting to years after. Certainly talent around the QB can factor for any season. But this Daniels season really stands out to his previous years.
You haven't seen Daniel Jones take deep shots ever as a pro?
How much did it set the franchise back in 2019?
The debate will only rage on as the Giants drop further in the draft order, and give the brass a potential out on seriously pursuing a QB in the '24 draft.
No more half-measures, no more punting on obvious mistakes, man up and move forward with some fookin' courage.
In hindsight, I never had an issue with passing on the 5th year. I did think they were going to Franchise him. I think, they think, that they could have Barkley and Jones back in the scenario that played out. They bet on Jones getting better.
However, his injury record is the problem. This is the risk with any "running" qb on your team. RGIII as mentioned, is a perfect example.
I will be surprised if they go QB early in Round 1. I can see them doing the hedge and trading up in the late Rd1 or just staying and drafting in round 2.
They just have too many needs right now. It would not shock me if they get a QB in Rd 2 or 3 as a development QB. They let DJ start if he's healthy then, they keep DeVito as a backup.
Then they look for a QB in 2025 or a Free agent.
The debate will only rage on as the Giants drop further in the draft order, and give the brass a potential out on seriously pursuing a QB in the '24 draft.
No more half-measures, no more punting on obvious mistakes, man up and move forward with some fookin' courage.
Do you think Schoen would value Odunze or Nabers?
They BETTER realize it. And gambling on Jones health/ growth is not exactly job security.
Blueworm, mentioned if something along the lines of "if you can't market success, market hope".
That's exactly WHY they should move on NOW. Move heaven and earth to draft a new QB. It buys you more good will AND time from ownership.
If they put all their chips with Jones and he flames out (which is what his career has been up until now), then are likely gone after next season.
Do they really want to take that chance?
There's a reason why they are HEAVILLY scouting this QB class, putting a lot of time AND resources into it.
I would be SHOCKED if they don't take a QB at #1 and if it means using draft capital to get in position, so be it!
Quote:
another Daniel Jones thread
That sucks that your web browser forces you to open and read threads without you making the conscious decision to do so. Have you tried turning your device off and turning it back on again?
It's a joke, not a wanker. Don't take it so hard.
His injury history by itself means that he can't be the future QB of the Giants. So draft a QB in the first or second round and cut Jones after the 2024 season, even though doing so means a $22M cap hit. His contract is a classic "sunk cost." There's nothing the Giants can do about it, just like with Golladay and Solder.
Trust me on this. Watch Brian Thomas, Jr the "other WR" for LSU. He's unbelievable with his size, catch radius, and explosion.
He'll be in the first round, too.
On all of these highlights I’m seeing and throws I’m watching for Daniels, he almost has zero push from his lower body on these throws. Watch it carefully. His legs and base are tiny, and he’s putting all of his “throw” with his arm. Which is what others have said on his scouting report.
Which is why, in my opinion, he does not have the ability to make all the throws in the NFL. Having a quick release is great. That means nothing to me. His mechanics and power are so off and he’s a long way away, IMO.
Thanks for responding.
When I see Daniels play, he is an exciting prospect on many fronts. While reviews may reveal some mechanics that need work, his passing prowess is exponentially better than a year ago. His developmental work this past offseason has really paid off and I don't think his reviewers have caught up yet with how much his game has improved with his head/arm versus just his feet.
I think come next March everybody will be offering him up as not only a sure top 3 pick, but likely #1 overall.
Strengths
Benefitted working under QB guru David Cutcliffe at Duke
Did more with less at skill positions
Quick worker through progressions
Early recognition of deep ball opportunities and feathers throws into the target
Adjusts pre-snap plan to blitz and exploits hot-read opportunities
Consistent footwork from pocket with feet following eyes
Outstanding accuracy on intermediate throws
Uses fastball when he needs it, but generally throws with touch
Drives field-side throws with velocity
Courage to hang in the pocket and throw despite impending blow
Completion percentage hurt by high drop rate
Displays feel for pressure off the edge
Good athlete with scrambling ability to move the chains
Slick pocket slider with ability to keep searching for target or flee for yardage
Weaknesses
Thin in his lower body
Had 12 passes batted down at line of scrimmage in 2018
Benefitted from heavy play-action/RPO scheme
Incessant patting of the ball through progressions
Waits an extra step before cutting it loose too often
Average release speed slowed by small windup
Attempts throws into some impossible windows
Needs to work ahead of schedule more often on next level
Succumbs to off-platform tosses rather than working into better positioning
Showed willingness to throw it up for grabs rather than take sack
Loose ball handling in face of pressure leads to fumbles
Too much bravado as a runner
Took licks when slides or dashes out of bounds were options
I agree that this is a pretty accurate scouting report, although a couple of the strengths stand out to me as questionable now after years of observation (bolded above):
Adjusts pre-snap plan to blitz and exploits hot-read opportunities
This supposed strength has never translated to the NFL, so much so that I question the veracity of the scouting report on this particular element. Just this year there were a few instances of DJ having poor pre-snap blitz recognition and no feel for the resulting hot-read opportunities.
Drives field-side throws with velocity
This one feels accurate, but the reason why it stands out to me is that Daboll and Kafka tend to run the passing game almost exclusively to the boundary side. Even if field side arm strength is a plus for DJ, it's wasted in this offense anyway.
Displays feel for pressure off the edge
This has felt inaccurate to me from DJ's rookie year on and has not improved by any substantial measure in the years since. But even going back to 2019, the fumbles from DJ have always seemed like they were at least partially due to DJ not sensing the backside pressure coming off the edge, and we still saw that happen against Seattle this year. I don't know if this "strength" was ever true and I don't think it's true now.
And then there are the listed weaknesses - are there any that we can definitively say have improved in five years? Maybe the willingness to throw into impossible windows, but that one seems to have come at the expense of becoming a bit too risk-averse in the process. It's tough for a lot of QBs to find the right balance on that, and I think DJ's swings have been a bit more volatile.
Quote:
In comment 16308332 KDavies said:
Quote:
another Daniel Jones thread
That sucks that your web browser forces you to open and read threads without you making the conscious decision to do so. Have you tried turning your device off and turning it back on again?
It's a joke, not a wanker. Don't take it so hard.
You and your jokes. I always forget how funny you are!
However, this is bigger than Jones.
The point of the article is the risk to the front office/coaching staff of making the wrong choice.
Now, the Giants have a higher pick, multiple 2nd rounders, and a deep QB draft staring at them. Plus Jones injuries have made in clear that they need to bring in another young QB.
The point of the article is the risk to the front office/coaching staff of making the wrong choice.
And, for the second time.
4.2 jump in YPA. 17 TD's to 40. 1000 more yards in passing.
2.4 increase in YPC.
You see jumps in production going from 1st year starting to years after. Certainly talent around the QB can factor for any season. But this Daniels season really stands out to his previous years.
Burrow, I believe, also had a big bump in his metrics from his 1st to 2nd (final year) at LSU.
As a freshman as Arizona State, Daniels had an excellent debut. He outplayed Herbert when ASU beat the Ducks (who were #6).
Things started to fall apart for the entire ASU program when they got called out for recruiting violations and Daniel's mom was accused of coordinating for the payments of travel for recruits and their parents.