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Amazingly well said

PhilSimms15 : 11/30/2023 1:44 pm
Eric, I have loved this site from the day I found it (sometime in your first 3-4 years) and you remain an important (maybe most important) voice of the fan base and the media.

And I’m not saying this because I agree with you (I do) but because I could not agree more with your conclusions.

I’ve been a Giants fan since 1970 and there were plenty of years where there was nothing but love and hope for the franchise.

If the Giants roll into 2024 with Jones and no potential replacement, then I will watch many fewer games, pay less attention to the waiver wire, and simply reduce my passion for the team.

If the Giants bring back Jones with no potential replacement it will mean ownership and management have either misplaced hope, they are dreaming or they have poor judgment. Or maybe all three.

Nothing against the kid, but he is who he is. An injury prone, #2 QB pretending to be a starting QB in the NFL.

And I know a lot of fans feel the same. Mara will find out he will have squandered a fan base that has been tremendously loyal, and incredibly passionate.

I really hope they find a way to move up in the draft to choose one of the big three.
Thanks  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/30/2023 2:04 pm : link
A big part of this is simply facing the fact that the Giants are in the unfortunate position of having to play two of the best teams in the conference in their own division.

In other words, the Giants are losing the arms race.
To take this further  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/30/2023 2:06 pm : link
right now, the best the Giants can hope for is finishing 3rd in the NFC East. That's a terrible starting point.
+1000  
IchabodGiant : 11/30/2023 2:11 pm : link
Agree. That’s why this site has been a required daily stop for true Giants fans for decades. Awesome work Eric.
Eric maybe you can  
Scooter185 : 11/30/2023 2:13 pm : link
Have your daughter Photoshop a plane flying over Metlife with a banner reading "we need a QB"

Worked well last time 😉
 
ryanmkeane : 11/30/2023 2:17 pm : link
PhilSimms15 - how did you feel entering 2022?
you can't force the issue at QB  
djm : 11/30/2023 2:28 pm : link
no matter how much you hate Jones.

These things will iron out based on the draft. It's all about availability. With that said, I'd be completely shocked if the Giants don't add a QB within the first 3 rounds or so. Whether they add one in round 1 depends on whether they CAN draft one in round 1.

Gun to my head, I think they either trade up in the latter stages of round 1 AFTER they used their original first OR they take one in round 2, via either trading up or standing pat.

IF I had to bet, the Giants likely pick around 10th? I would guess there may not be a worthy QB there as the hot shots will be gone already. We shall see.
PS  
djm : 11/30/2023 2:31 pm : link
things could be worse than heading into a season with a damaged QB who has won playoff games. I swear some of you weren't alive prior to 2000. We've gone into seasons with the likes of Danny Kannel as QB1. Trust me, it could be worse.

Here's an idea-- Let's find and add as many good and great players as possible and help the QB help the team. Forget the narratives or QB angst. Just add players. If the QB is one of those players and he's an upgrade, or a massive potential upgrade, get him. Don't reach.
RE: PS  
section125 : 11/30/2023 2:35 pm : link
In comment 16308860 djm said:
Quote:
things could be worse than heading into a season with a damaged QB who has won playoff games. I swear some of you weren't alive prior to 2000. We've gone into seasons with the likes of Danny Kannel as QB1. Trust me, it could be worse.

Here's an idea-- Let's find and add as many good and great players as possible and help the QB help the team. Forget the narratives or QB angst. Just add players. If the QB is one of those players and he's an upgrade, or a massive potential upgrade, get him. Don't reach.


Totally agree that they need to add more than a QB. But they definitely need a QB.
We're at a point  
Sammo85 : 11/30/2023 2:38 pm : link
where sensible adults have to focus on "compete" but realize that this is about "hope" and for 2025 and a true pivot plan away from Jones at that point.
RE: you can't force the issue at QB  
Sec 103 : 11/30/2023 2:40 pm : link
In comment 16308851 djm said:
Quote:
no matter how much you hate Jones.

These things will iron out based on the draft. It's all about availability. With that said, I'd be completely shocked if the Giants don't add a QB within the first 3 rounds or so. Whether they add one in round 1 depends on whether they CAN draft one in round 1.

Gun to my head, I think they either trade up in the latter stages of round 1 AFTER they used their original first OR they take one in round 2, via either trading up or standing pat.

IF I had to bet, the Giants likely pick around 10th? I would guess there may not be a worthy QB there as the hot shots will be gone already. We shall see.


The voice of reason
I'm in the camp of  
OBJ_AllDay : 11/30/2023 2:43 pm : link
saying we definitely need a new qb

With that said, Dallas and Philly have punked the Giants for far too long in the trenches and that's just the reality of it. Jones has gotten his ass kicked in back to back years by the Dallas front. Big time Giants like Dex, Leonard when he was here, Kayvon have been absolutely neutralized by the Dallas and Philly o lines. What Philly did in the run game of the playoffs was absolutely criminal.

RE: Thanks  
MotownGIANTS : 11/30/2023 2:53 pm : link
In comment 16308816 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
A big part of this is simply facing the fact that the Giants are in the unfortunate position of having to play two of the best teams in the conference in their own division.

In other words, the Giants are losing the arms race.


Interesting analogy (accurate) .... technically we are at war.

I just wanted to get back to being competitive and with the understanding teams get worse and better it is a cycle. We have been on 1 SB every decade ... I want that trend to continue.

Looking at it as a war ... highlights how bad we are.
Agreed! Eric is King and really very reasonable, intelligent and  
GiantBlue : 11/30/2023 2:59 pm : link
unbiased.

Agree also that if we don't have hope for change......well....we are just watching NFL games to appreciate other team's players.
RE: RE: Thanks  
MotownGIANTS : 11/30/2023 3:30 pm : link
In comment 16308891 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
In comment 16308816 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


A big part of this is simply facing the fact that the Giants are in the unfortunate position of having to play two of the best teams in the conference in their own division.

In other words, the Giants are losing the arms race.



Interesting analogy (accurate) .... technically we are at war.

I just wanted to get back to being competitive and with the understanding teams get worse and better it is a cycle. We have been on 1 SB every decade ... I want that trend to continue.

Looking at it as a war ... highlights how bad we are.


Meant "...in 1 SB every decade." The 2000 lost counts Fassel rallied his troops.
RE: RE: Thanks  
MotownGIANTS : 11/30/2023 3:30 pm : link
In comment 16308891 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
In comment 16308816 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


A big part of this is simply facing the fact that the Giants are in the unfortunate position of having to play two of the best teams in the conference in their own division.

In other words, the Giants are losing the arms race.



Interesting analogy (accurate) .... technically we are at war.

I just wanted to get back to being competitive and with the understanding teams get worse and better it is a cycle. We have been on 1 SB every decade ... I want that trend to continue.

Looking at it as a war ... highlights how bad we are.


Meant "...in 1 SB every decade." The 2000 loss counts Fassel rallied his troops.
Eric  
Beef Wellington : 11/30/2023 3:32 pm : link
will you marry me?
RE: PS  
BlueVinnie : 11/30/2023 3:34 pm : link
In comment 16308860 djm said:
Quote:
things could be worse than heading into a season with a damaged QB who has won playoff games. I swear some of you weren't alive prior to 2000. We've gone into seasons with the likes of Danny Kannel as QB1. Trust me, it could be worse.

Here's an idea-- Let's find and add as many good and great players as possible and help the QB help the team. Forget the narratives or QB angst. Just add players. If the QB is one of those players and he's an upgrade, or a massive potential upgrade, get him. Don't reach.

Yeah, things could be worse but not by much.
I don't care if we add Marvin Harrison in the draft, things won't get markedly better until we get a quality starting QB. Good or great QBs can make average WRs looked good. It rarely, if ever, works the other way. A great receiver is handcuffed by mediocre QB play. He doesn't turn the mediocre QB into a solid starter.

While we need to add quality nearly everywhere, I still believe and have believed since Jones' 2nds season, that QB should be priority #1.

I've been around since the 70s. I've experienced the Dave Brown, Danny Kannel, Kent Graham years. Frankly, I think this is worse. At least in those days, the team knew that finding a good starting QB was a priority. I don't know if management (basically ownership) feels that way now.
I know multiple die hard fans  
Mike from SI : 11/30/2023 3:44 pm : link
who had reduced their interest because of the Joe Judge years, and now this has not helped.

For decades, I would move and skip social events to make sure I could watch the game live; I'd only miss a game live if I absolutely had to (e.g., family Christening). I now choose social events over this nonsense, as I can watch the game quickly on DVR.

I went through this with the Knicks, at some point you're not a "bad fan" if you don't want to watch an awful product that is the result of objectively flawed (and quite dumb) decision making. (I can't even count how much time I wasted watching awful Knicks teams.)

I do trust Schoen and Daboll for now....
Shocked  
Snorkels : 11/30/2023 3:44 pm : link
I am more than a little surprised that somebody with the moniker "Phil Simms' would say the following: 'Nothing against the kid, but he is who he is. An injury prone, #2 QB pretending to be a starting QB in the NFL.' because at the start of 1984 the real Simms was just that guy, a former top ten pick entering his 6th season who was always injured but who hadn't done much when he was healthy, and three years later the Giants won their 1st Super Bowl.

So let me say to you and everyone else around, if in the end Jones does come back and lead the Giants to the playoffs next year (which for those of you who apparently slept through the 2022 season) he did last year with not much around him, please don't come around cheering and celebrating!
oh for crying out loud, not another comparison to Simms  
Greg from LI : 11/30/2023 3:54 pm : link
It was *forty* years ago. The league has changed a wee bit since then, no?
RE: Shocked  
gary_from_chester : 11/30/2023 3:56 pm : link
In comment 16308968 Snorkels said:
Quote:
I am more than a little surprised that somebody with the moniker "Phil Simms' would say the following: 'Nothing against the kid, but he is who he is. An injury prone, #2 QB pretending to be a starting QB in the NFL.' because at the start of 1984 the real Simms was just that guy, a former top ten pick entering his 6th season who was always injured but who hadn't done much when he was healthy, and three years later the Giants won their 1st Super Bowl.

So let me say to you and everyone else around, if in the end Jones does come back and lead the Giants to the playoffs next year (which for those of you who apparently slept through the 2022 season) he did last year with not much around him, please don't come around cheering and celebrating!


Whenever I form a negative opinion of a player - I still root for them to do well. I root for them to ‘prove me wrong’. I’m in the Daniel Jones is not good enough camp; I still root for him and am happy when he does well. If he comes back next year and ‘proves me wrong’, I would be ecstatic. Nothing wrong with forming opinions about players, part of being a fan.If we don’t go QB in the draft I will be very disappointed. If he plays, performs well, and leads us to the playoffs I will cheer and celebrate and perhaps change my opinion / assessment based on what I see. People need to chill out….
Good for you Gary  
Snorkels : 11/30/2023 4:19 pm : link
But that's not what a whole bunch of people seem to be saying. They are going to stop watching or at least watch less. What I find particularly bizarre is that it appears to be pretty much that same people who have been screaming for years EFF Reese and Gettleman and Mara too for that matter for letting the OL rot; they ruined Eli's last years in the league and no QB no matter how good could possibly win with this outfit are now blaming it all on the QB. To call this year's OL bad is being kind as it is actually historically bad. How bad, the Giants, through just 12 games have already given up the 8th most sacks in NFL history and they are on pace to become only the second team in NFL history to give up 100 sacks in a season.

That said, I'm all in on taking a QB early this year if one is available because the Giants absolutely need some insurance at the position, plus if a team gets a chance at a possible elite QB they'd be crazy not to take it. But to put it all on Jones is just preposterous. Plus I am still waiting for the haters to come out and tell us how they are going to get better at the position. Just changing QBs for the sake of it is a recipe for disaster. In fact its what the Giants did through much of the 1970s.

Its easy to say draft a guy, but picking around 7th this year all your going to get is a shot at maybe the 4th or even the 5th or 6th best guy this year. Not the best odds. Trade up into the top 3. Dream on they're all taking QBs themselves and if by some chance the Giants could make a deal it'll likely cost at least a couple of future #1s who could turn out to be the next Stroud or Lawrence but is just as likely to be the next Wilson, Lynch, Bradford or Darnold. Free agency: hey I hear Mayfield and Garoppolo might be available.

In the end, I really don't understand why people don't take Schoen at his work. Were they not listening to his presser this week when he made it about as clear as a GM will make it that they 'expect' Jones to be the starter when healthy next fall, but they'll also be looking at both the draft and free agency for upgrades. Its called covering all the bases, or at least as many as one can and giving the team as many options as possible.
RE: Eric maybe you can  
BMac : 11/30/2023 4:22 pm : link
In comment 16308830 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
Have your daughter Photoshop a plane flying over Metlife with a banner reading "we need a QB"

Worked well last time 😉


Don't forget the Oompa-Loompas.
Phill Simms would have sucked behind this OL  
George from PA : 11/30/2023 5:16 pm : link
Just saying.....
I think Devito has clearly shown we need better qb play  
kelly : 11/30/2023 6:29 pm : link
and Jones is not the answer. The debate should be over.

But we so many pieces to improve the roster giving up a bunch of picks is a hard pill to swallow. However once Jones is off the roster that will free up a lot of money that can be used to improve the roster.

What we cannot afford to do is make the same mistake twice by reaching for a qb as we did with Jones. That will only compound the issue.
RE: To take this further  
Matt M. : 11/30/2023 6:32 pm : link
In comment 16308819 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
right now, the best the Giants can hope for is finishing 3rd in the NFC East. That's a terrible starting point.
It's sad but true. This off-season, I thought we had actually jumped Dallas because I thought we got more talented and they did not. They clearly are still a much more talented and better team.
Yeah I'm really vacillating now  
GiantSteps : 11/30/2023 6:37 pm : link
It's so hard to know what to do in the current predicament.

With a top 10 1st rd pick and two 2nd rounders, one could certainly make the argument that it's just as prudent to keep building the team elsewhere. Go pure BPA, and don't give up valuable draft capital to move up. Keep building until Arch Manning is available. :)

It's not like NYG are going to be competing with the Eagles, Cowboys, Niners, or Chiefs in a year or two. Build the lines, find a WR1, I dunno.

But I gotta say I'm really liking the way Daniels looks. That post from the other day with his highlight reel was pretty convincing.

I have no idea what NYG should do. What a mess.
If you are going to cheer for the Giants only whene they win perhaps  
Jack Stroud : 11/30/2023 6:53 pm : link
you find another team! I have been Giants fan since 1955 and have cheered fro them regardless of their record. When I was in Vietnam and could not get NFL news, it was so hard wondering how the team did. So, you are either a fan or you are not, being a fan means cheering for your team no matter what!
RE: RE: Eric maybe you can  
DavidinBMNY : 11/30/2023 7:57 pm : link
In comment 16309010 BMac said:
Quote:
In comment 16308830 Scooter185 said:


Quote:


Have your daughter Photoshop a plane flying over Metlife with a banner reading "we need a QB"

Worked well last time 😉



Don't forget the Oompa-Loompas.
the Oompa Loompas what a classic.
RE: RE: you can't force the issue at QB  
Eman11 : 11/30/2023 8:31 pm : link
In comment 16308873 Sec 103 said:
Quote:
In comment 16308851 djm said:


Quote:


no matter how much you hate Jones.

These things will iron out based on the draft. It's all about availability. With that said, I'd be completely shocked if the Giants don't add a QB within the first 3 rounds or so. Whether they add one in round 1 depends on whether they CAN draft one in round 1.

Gun to my head, I think they either trade up in the latter stages of round 1 AFTER they used their original first OR they take one in round 2, via either trading up or standing pat.

IF I had to bet, the Giants likely pick around 10th? I would guess there may not be a worthy QB there as the hot shots will be gone already. We shall see.



The voice of reason


Agreed and I didn’t get the piling on kicking them when they’re down feel from this post either. Nor an all doom and gloom one either.
.  
steve in ky : 11/30/2023 8:36 pm : link
Quote:
If the Giants roll into 2024 with Jones and no potential replacement, then I will watch many fewer games, pay less attention to the waiver wire, and simply reduce my passion for the team


What if the OL gets fixed and Jones plays great and they are winning, you still not watching?
I don't know what DJ "is" or isn't.  
81_Great_Dane : 11/30/2023 9:05 pm : link
But I'm pretty sure the Giants can't assume they know what he is. They have to have a Plan B — and based on this season, a Plan C, too.
RE: I don't know what DJ  
steve in ky : 11/30/2023 9:32 pm : link
In comment 16309233 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
But I'm pretty sure the Giants can't assume they know what he is. They have to have a Plan B — and based on this season, a Plan C, too.


Because of the injuries they likely get somebody, the thing is do they go all in with their top pick or perhaps look for someone raw but great upside potential a couple or three picks later and let him sit behind Jones to give time for DaBoll to groom him as eventual replacement.
I don't know why it's so hard to understand  
Mike from SI : 11/30/2023 10:22 pm : link
that people can simultaneously think that Jones is bad or not the answer and still root for him. I've yet to see someone rooting for Jones to fail, yet that motivation is always baselessly imputed to posters with absolutely no evidence in support of it.
Gotta pay attention  
Snorkels : 11/30/2023 10:49 pm : link
Mike You're not really paying attention her. IN fact there are multiple on this site who claim (and I'll believe it when I see it) that they won't watch as much next year if Jones is back as the starter. I'll also throw the question back at you: why is it so difficult for people to understand that the Giants can bring Jones back as well as draft the best guy they can and let them sort it out. Which is pretty much what Schoen says the Giants plan to do this off-season. It also just boggles the mind that any NFL team anywhere would cut a starting QB especially one who is less than 12 months from getting them to their first playoff win in over a decade when THEY DON"T HAVE ANY OTHER OPTIONS IN THE ROOM. That would be insanity.
RE: To take this further  
rnargi : 11/30/2023 11:53 pm : link
In comment 16308819 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
right now, the best the Giants can hope for is finishing 3rd in the NFC East. That's a terrible starting point.


So all we need is a rookie QB and we're good to compete? We don't need a Parsons, Lamb, Brown, pick an OG, OT, OG, DT? Just a rookie QB, and give up picks to get him? That's it?
margi  
JonC : 12/1/2023 11:36 am : link
C'mon. You're talking past the points made and headed for a guardrail. Get a hold of yourself, dude.
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