- Luis Severino has joined the Mets in free agency after a mixed history with the Yankees. His career with the Yankees was marked by both success and extensive injuries. Severino signed a one-year, $13 million deal with the Mets.
Mets' Catching Depth:
- The Mets' catching depth is a concern, regarding Omar Narváez's performance and health. Cooper Hmel is considered a potential replacement for Narváez. They also picked up Tyler Heineman.
- Joey Wendle was picked up to replace LG as the utility man.
- Kyle Crick, a new Mets relief pitcher, has joined on a minor league deal with hopes of strengthening the bullpen.
The Mets have signed Austin Adams, Joseph Yabbour, Andre Scrubb and Cole Sulser to aid bullpen depth.
Mets Winter Meetings Focus:
- The Mets are expected to be active at the Winter Meetings, with a focus on acquiring an outfielder, starting pitching, and relief pitching. They are also interested in improving run prevention and outfield defense.
- The team may engage in trade talks, expect to hear the usual prospect names such as Kevin Parada, Brett Baty, Mark Vientos, and Ronny Mauricio.
Yoshinobu Yamamoto and Player Meetings:
- The New York Mets are planning to meet with Japanese pitcher Yoshinobu Yamamoto in the next week and he is expected to continue to draw significant interest from MLB teams.
- Shohei Ohtani is also expected to make a decision on his next team soon, with bids for his services surpassing $500 million.
- The Mets are also considering Korean outfielder Jung Hoo Lee.
Summary from pre Winter Meeting thread:
Hall of Fame Ballot Newbies: Inclusion of players like Big Sexy, Wright, and Reyes in the Hall of Fame ballot.
- Several iconic Yankees and Mets greats were in contention for Hall of Fame induction, but they fell short of the required votes.
Management and Coaching Updates: Significant changes in the Mets' management and coaching staff, including a new contract for manager Mendoza. Bench coach vacancy and role shifts for Eric Chavez and Jeremy Barnes as hitting coaches. Introduction of Kris Gross and Andy Green in player development and amateur scouting.
Pitching Strategy and Market Moves: Focus on fortifying the rotation, implications of the Cardinals' signings, and the pursuit of high-caliber pitchers.
Bullpen and Player Performance: Signing of BP arms to minor league deals and review of the players.
Previous Mets thread: - (
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@jonmorosi
Juan Soto trade agreement is being finalized now, source confirms.
The deal, as @JackCurryYES
and @Joelsherman1
reported, sends Soto and Trent Grisham to New York for Michael King, Drew Thorpe, Jhony Brito, Randy Vásquez, and Kyle Higashioka.
Is this really happening ? Juan Soto is a Yankee now? Come on
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need to be patient and realize Stearns is going to be methodical both with off field structure and on fielding talent.
Mets may not be very good next year or two.
I hear what you’re saying but I don’t think “not very good” is acceptable for this team with Steve Cohen as owner. Not saying they should be short-sighted but they already have a pretty good nucleus and some intriguing youth. They have enough resources to supplement that to a level of competitive baseball. Being an afterthought in even the wildcard chase is unacceptable.
its not and they've maintained they are going to compete. with the wild card there is no excuse to not have fun years every single year.
they dont have 6+ open 40 man spots right now for no reason. they are going to pay people. there will be press conferences. and if they make good choices they will win more games than they lose.
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Jon Morosi
@jonmorosi
Juan Soto trade agreement is being finalized now, source confirms.
The deal, as @JackCurryYES
and @Joelsherman1
reported, sends Soto and Trent Grisham to New York for Michael King, Drew Thorpe, Jhony Brito, Randy Vásquez, and Kyle Higashioka.
Is this really happening ? Juan Soto is a Yankee now? Come on
if you want yamamoto, this is a positive.
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In comment 16315294 Sammo85 said:
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need to be patient and realize Stearns is going to be methodical both with off field structure and on fielding talent.
Mets may not be very good next year or two.
I hear what you’re saying but I don’t think “not very good” is acceptable for this team with Steve Cohen as owner. Not saying they should be short-sighted but they already have a pretty good nucleus and some intriguing youth. They have enough resources to supplement that to a level of competitive baseball. Being an afterthought in even the wildcard chase is unacceptable.
its not and they've maintained they are going to compete. with the wild card there is no excuse to not have fun years every single year.
they dont have 6+ open 40 man spots right now for no reason. they are going to pay people. there will be press conferences. and if they make good choices they will win more games than they lose.
They’ll be competing. Just for 3rd place in the NL East.
-No interest in E-Rod
-Nothing going with Snell
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In comment 16315307 Chris684 said:
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In comment 16315294 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
need to be patient and realize Stearns is going to be methodical both with off field structure and on fielding talent.
Mets may not be very good next year or two.
I hear what you’re saying but I don’t think “not very good” is acceptable for this team with Steve Cohen as owner. Not saying they should be short-sighted but they already have a pretty good nucleus and some intriguing youth. They have enough resources to supplement that to a level of competitive baseball. Being an afterthought in even the wildcard chase is unacceptable.
its not and they've maintained they are going to compete. with the wild card there is no excuse to not have fun years every single year.
they dont have 6+ open 40 man spots right now for no reason. they are going to pay people. there will be press conferences. and if they make good choices they will win more games than they lose.
They’ll be competing. Just for 3rd place in the NL East.
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In comment 16315340 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16315307 Chris684 said:
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In comment 16315294 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
need to be patient and realize Stearns is going to be methodical both with off field structure and on fielding talent.
Mets may not be very good next year or two.
I hear what you’re saying but I don’t think “not very good” is acceptable for this team with Steve Cohen as owner. Not saying they should be short-sighted but they already have a pretty good nucleus and some intriguing youth. They have enough resources to supplement that to a level of competitive baseball. Being an afterthought in even the wildcard chase is unacceptable.
its not and they've maintained they are going to compete. with the wild card there is no excuse to not have fun years every single year.
they dont have 6+ open 40 man spots right now for no reason. they are going to pay people. there will be press conferences. and if they make good choices they will win more games than they lose.
They’ll be competing. Just for 3rd place in the NL East.
wild card teams.go on runs all the time. Just need to get in
They don’t have the pitching. And their hitting depth is suspect.
Per the latest from @willsammon a trade for a Burnes/Glasnow type aka a rental arm is extremely unlikely and as of now the price for Montgomery/Snell would have to come down for @mets to “seriously” consider them
Per the latest from @willsammon a trade for a Burnes/Glasnow type aka a rental arm is extremely unlikely and as of now the price for Montgomery/Snell would have to come down for @mets to “seriously” consider them
Their money isn’t the issue. It’s if YY buys into their brand.
I just hope Cohen doesn’t force anything dumb on Stearns when they miss out on everybody and then sign Alonso for like 8-9 years. So far that seems not the case with him as owner and he’ll listen to plans and ideas. Try to add pitching depth, let the kids play and if it’s a rough transition year, so be it.
-Imanaga more of a #4 with #3 upside
-Rodriguez probably better suited in the bullpen but somebody will give him a shot to start
-Go low leverage for now but upside for more given his age (25)
-Lee prototypical MLB lead off hitter
-Matsui- middle reliever
Momentum headed that direction
And hasn’t slowed down for a second since
What a crazy couple of hours 😯
And hasn’t slowed down for a second since
What a crazy couple of hours 😯
Shecky what have we missed!? Lol
The framework of a Soto deal to Yanks is in place but that isn’t really a surprise.
And hasn’t slowed down for a second since
What a crazy couple of hours 😯
Damn you Shecky. lol
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In comment 16315307 Chris684 said:
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In comment 16315294 Sammo85 said:
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need to be patient and realize Stearns is going to be methodical both with off field structure and on fielding talent.
Mets may not be very good next year or two.
I hear what you’re saying but I don’t think “not very good” is acceptable for this team with Steve Cohen as owner. Not saying they should be short-sighted but they already have a pretty good nucleus and some intriguing youth. They have enough resources to supplement that to a level of competitive baseball. Being an afterthought in even the wildcard chase is unacceptable.
its not and they've maintained they are going to compete. with the wild card there is no excuse to not have fun years every single year.
they dont have 6+ open 40 man spots right now for no reason. they are going to pay people. there will be press conferences. and if they make good choices they will win more games than they lose.
They’ll be competing. Just for 3rd place in the NL East.
who came in 3rd place in the east in 2022?
who went farthest from the east into the 2023 playoffs?
what NL team was tied with what 3rd place NL East team in wins in 2023? how far did they go?
One day contract
retirement
and then
Retiring his number!!!!!
What a weird Met fan you are. You are kissing more ass than ever over on the Yankee thread and telling Mets fans to accept that they suck on a Mets thread?
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The Mets stink. Just accept it.
What a weird Met fan you are. You are kissing more ass than ever over on the Yankee thread and telling Mets fans to accept that they suck on a Mets thread?
Yep. I see the reality of the situation. Same discussion Giants fans have here. I live in the real world where real results are real.
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The Mets stink. Just accept it.
What a weird Met fan you are. You are kissing more ass than ever over on the Yankee thread and telling Mets fans to accept that they suck on a Mets thread?
it's reminiscent of the self loathers who spent the first year of cohen telling us how he was no different than the wilponzis.
probably thinks lindor is overrated and nimmo's a good 4th of'er.
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In comment 16315449 Sammo85 said:
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The Mets stink. Just accept it.
What a weird Met fan you are. You are kissing more ass than ever over on the Yankee thread and telling Mets fans to accept that they suck on a Mets thread?
Yep. I see the reality of the situation. Same discussion Giants fans have here. I live in the real world where real results are real.
and the results you've seen so far this offseason are what?
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In comment 16315449 Sammo85 said:
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The Mets stink. Just accept it.
What a weird Met fan you are. You are kissing more ass than ever over on the Yankee thread and telling Mets fans to accept that they suck on a Mets thread?
it's reminiscent of the self loathers who spent the first year of cohen telling us how he was no different than the wilponzis.
probably thinks lindor is overrated and nimmo's a good 4th of'er.
Cohen has completely misfired as an owner so far. He’s in over his head and only just realizing it. Hopefully he is figuring it out but he’s spent over a billion dollars on top of the 2.5 spent to get in door and not much to show for it.
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In comment 16315452 Chris684 said:
Quote:
In comment 16315449 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
The Mets stink. Just accept it.
What a weird Met fan you are. You are kissing more ass than ever over on the Yankee thread and telling Mets fans to accept that they suck on a Mets thread?
Yep. I see the reality of the situation. Same discussion Giants fans have here. I live in the real world where real results are real.
and the results you've seen so far this offseason are what?
A desperate realization that it’s going to take a slow painful multi year process to retool this roster. It’s a pile of mish mosh with some sprinkles of hope.
Yep. I see the reality of the situation. Same discussion Giants fans have here. I live in the real world where real results are real.
and the results you've seen so far this offseason are what?
A desperate realization that it’s going to take a slow painful multi year process to retool this roster. It’s a pile of mish mosh with some sprinkles of hope.
got it you know what alvarez, baty, vientos, and mauricio are going to be next year (steamer projects all 4 over 1 win and alvarez over 3)? and how they are going to fill the half open pitching staff?
how are your comments different then the threads comparing cohen the wilponzis like a week before they signed scherzer and ended up having their best season in 3 decades? other than the fact that this year's FA pitchers are all between 6-13 years younger than max?
A deal is not finalized, but the NL champions are among the finalists to sign him.
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Yep. I see the reality of the situation. Same discussion Giants fans have here. I live in the real world where real results are real.
and the results you've seen so far this offseason are what?
A desperate realization that it’s going to take a slow painful multi year process to retool this roster. It’s a pile of mish mosh with some sprinkles of hope.
got it you know what alvarez, baty, vientos, and mauricio are going to be next year (steamer projects all 4 over 1 win and alvarez over 3)? and how they are going to fill the half open pitching staff?
how are your comments different then the threads comparing cohen the wilponzis like a week before they signed scherzer and ended up having their best season in 3 decades? other than the fact that this year's FA pitchers are all between 6-13 years younger than max?
I took a very patient approach with Cohen. I never said anything that you’re alluding to so I must take great offense to you doing that. Met fans don’t all have to be super optimistic every offseason and just taking morsels of potential and blowing them out of unrealistic proportion. I don’t criticize people for being super hopeful and rooting for their team no matter what. I root for the team too so don’t debase me or mock me or throw me into some god damn pit.
You seem like a good soul. Who breeds on optimism and hope.
I do not. So I don’t want to bash you. You do you brother. Seriously. I’m very pessimistic about the compete level of this roster but am hopeful for the future in about 3 years time. But don’t act like because of a few steamer projections you see and a few metrics you find somewhere you can just toss out people from this fanbase who are incredibly demoralized by losing.
11 hitters league average+
vientos/stewart 20 homers
11 hitters league average+
vientos/stewart 20 homers
What were the steamer projections for last year, especially pitching?
I'm actually extremely encouraged with Cohen now. He hires Stearns to run baseball operations and I expect shrewd moves while being opportunistic. Don't just throw money at everything. I don't care how much money Cohen has, he'll get tired of writing those luxury tax penalty checks. So this years approach does not surprise me at all.
I liked the fact that the Mets beefed up the farm system prior to the deadline. They need to get financially leaner and smarter which I trust Stearns to do. And when the time comes, be opportunistic utilizing the resources Cohen has for free agency which is exactly what Stearns said.
This is the first time under Cohen's ownership I actually see the beginnings of a sustainable plan.
But…we know have an owner that can literally buy any player he wants. And while that is amazing, it also doesn’t mean that you should. Last year prove that. I really want Yamamoto, but I don’t know if I want to commit 10 years to him. But Cohen can do it if he wants to. Or more.
I’m okay with being patient while they build something. We are in an infinitely better place under Cohen than we were under the corrupt Wilpons. This teams needs stability, consistency and to build an identity. I doubt we get the big FAs this off-season and that’s okay. But I NEVER have to worry about the owner acting like a small market team and lying to his fans. And that’s huge.
I took a very patient approach with Cohen. I never said anything that you’re alluding to so I must take great offense to you doing that. Met fans don’t all have to be super optimistic every offseason and just taking morsels of potential and blowing them out of unrealistic proportion. I don’t criticize people for being super hopeful and rooting for their team no matter what. I root for the team too so don’t debase me or mock me or throw me into some god damn pit.
You seem like a good soul. Who breeds on optimism and hope.
I do not. So I don’t want to bash you. You do you brother. Seriously. I’m very pessimistic about the compete level of this roster but am hopeful for the future in about 3 years time. But don’t act like because of a few steamer projections you see and a few metrics you find somewhere you can just toss out people from this fanbase who are incredibly demoralized by losing.
you may have been patient with cohen but others werent, i didnt accuse you of anything prior to this thread bc i have no recollection of any commemts you made, i compared your comments in this thread to those bc they are one in the same w/ what was said november 2021. making judgements before things happen that quickly looked silly.
you're free to be as pessimistic as youd like and i acknowledge this probably sounds like parody coming from me but id suggest a little humility for the unknown. especially at this point in the offseason when 1/4 or more of the active roster is unknown. however i come off i try to back up my opinions with data and not fortune telling.
honest question, if some combo of yamamoto / montgomery / imanaga are mets 10 days from now, would that shift your thinking in the slightest?
last thing - after the last decade of the wilponzis, poignantly captured in the beltran interview last week if you havent read it, if having an owner who cares enough to fly across the world for a free agent, who was willing to outspend the rest of baseball by more than $100m last year, including spending about $50m midseason to buy a better farm system like no owner has ever done before, arent good enough reasons to be optimistic i dont know what are. even if things are far from perfect right now. maybe you disagree with that broader view compensating for the fact that they had an obviously disappointing season but i dont think it biased me from being critical of things that worth being critical. i just try to hold off on doing that for when things happen not before they happen. if they swing and miss entirely on the top of the sp market you can bet ill be critical.
the owner can't "literally" buy any player he wants, in fact he's finding out right now he may not even necessarily be able to buy the players available in free agency.
is there a better fit for the Mets than Yamamoto? 25 year old top of the rotation starter, only costs money. Isn't that the prototypical player Cohen should be able to "buy" - if he doesn't wind up in Queens, what does that tell you? Maybe the highest bidder doesn't always win or that he wasn't the highest bidder - you can interpret them two different ways.
Montgomery, not even a TOR starter really with a lengthy track record, wants to "go home" which last time I heard was when Roger Clemens left Boston to to go Toronto (he's from Texas).
those are just a couple examples.
Even Ohtani who prototypes as a perfect bat in the middle of the Mets lineup as just a hitter not even considering if/when he starts pitching again, sure he costs draft pick comp since he has a QO but he's a guy you break that rule for - doesn't even get a sniff from the Mets (reportedly).
money is not the only answer. Players sometimes want more - they want a legacy of winning, culture, belonging, teammates, structure, know their role, know you have a plan, things you can't just wave a wallet at. It's a two-way street.
if this off-season Cohen comes up empty and it remains to be seen - I'm not prejudging the off-season on 12/6 but I wouldn't be shocked if he has an exit plan. the fucking Texas Rangers won a WS and Cohen's Mets aren't a playoff team today with the leagues highest payroll. I feel like it is harder than he thought it would be.
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mets steamer projos pretty interesting:
11 hitters league average+
vientos/stewart 20 homers
What were the steamer projections for last year, especially pitching?
im not aware of them being archived but id imagine diaz' steamer projection wasnt that he'd miss the season entirely.
verlander ended up at 3.3 fwar in 27 starts, so basically a 4 win pace so he probably came close.
scherzer under by more than jv, but he was worth 1.2 fwar in 8 starts for texas so he turned it around after he got dealt bc that was more than he was worth in the 19 starts he made for the mets. whether it was pitch clock or injuries related to age who knows but the results were the results.
quintana was worth 1.5 fwar in half season so he was on pace, but missed time bc he was injured.
senga may have over performed by as much as carrasco underperformed.
szymborski posted his analysis of zips projections last year and they basically hit exactly right in aggregate, some guys overachieve some underachieve. the mets had an underachieving year for a lot of reasons - most probably associated with how much age they had on the roster.
I'm actually extremely encouraged with Cohen now. He hires Stearns to run baseball operations and I expect shrewd moves while being opportunistic. Don't just throw money at everything. I don't care how much money Cohen has, he'll get tired of writing those luxury tax penalty checks. So this years approach does not surprise me at all.
I liked the fact that the Mets beefed up the farm system prior to the deadline. They need to get financially leaner and smarter which I trust Stearns to do. And when the time comes, be opportunistic utilizing the resources Cohen has for free agency which is exactly what Stearns said.
This is the first time under Cohen's ownership I actually see the beginnings of a sustainable plan.
Cohen's approval as owner happened if i recall a few days after free agency had already begun in november 2020. I think cohen/sandy in their intro press conference stated that they may have claimed someone who had been on waivers in those first few days before they were technically allowed to do anything (including contacting anyone in the fo held over from the wilpon regime).
So he took over a team during free agency, had to fire BVW/his regime, and then had to try to pretty rapidly hire a management team. Not saying it was an impossible situation but there was no way for it to not be chaotic, especially once porter's junk came out (@pj, literally).
stearns was the guy they wanted from the beginning but they had to wait it out, hopefully he's worth the wait.
Texas is the right comparison. 2 offseasons ago many (myself very much included) were suspicious of spending $500m on seager + semian off a 60-102 season in 2021. that seemed like insanity.
it seemed like even greater insanity when they signed JDG last offseason off a not much better 68-94.
almost $700 million committed to 3 players and at that moment literally nothing to show for it. in fact seager had one of his worst offensive seasons and they still doubled down.
they went even more all in at the deadline with scherzer + montgomery even though jdg was down with TJS and only managed to win 90 games. but that turned out to be enough even though scherzer too got injured.
and corey seager who they signed in 2021, and had one of his worst offensive seasons in 2022, carried them to a ws in 2023. even though the houston astros still won the division and texas wouldn't have even been the wild card if it was the rules of a few years ago with 4 playoff teams.
im not positive what the moral of that story is but if your team has the chance to get great players, and as a fan it's not your money, why not? obviously you cant just spend blindly there needs to be a coherent plan and you need to get more evaluations right than wrong. but with so many teams making the playoffs now if you have an owner willing to take chances your odds are a lot higher things can change quickly.
$32m AAV worth of (starling marte $20m + eduardo mehscobar $12m) at ages 33+
or 32.5m AAV of Seager from age 28+?
im pretty sure the draft comp for the QO would have been the pick that took blade tidwell and the pick that took brandon sproat (who didnt sign that year anyway).
I'm actually extremely encouraged with Cohen now. He hires Stearns to run baseball operations and I expect shrewd moves while being opportunistic. Don't just throw money at everything. I don't care how much money Cohen has, he'll get tired of writing those luxury tax penalty checks. So this years approach does not surprise me at all.
I liked the fact that the Mets beefed up the farm system prior to the deadline. They need to get financially leaner and smarter which I trust Stearns to do. And when the time comes, be opportunistic utilizing the resources Cohen has for free agency which is exactly what Stearns said.
This is the first time under Cohen's ownership I actually see the beginnings of a sustainable plan.
I'm not sure I agree with the framing of this. He said from day one his primary concern was rebuilding the farm system. If fans and observers misread how he spent money that's not his fault. He signed sherzer amd Verlander to *short* deals not team-killing multi-year contacts. The play was always to be able to contend short term and restock a barren farm. They were a contender for a year but Max and Verlander were never long term investments and that is okay. And when it didn't work out as planned they flipped the pieces they "threw money at" for a haul of prospects to accelerate what he said he was going to do on day one: rebuild a farm system and that process had already started before that point.
3 years 45. Love it for the Reds
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if this off-season Cohen comes up empty and it remains to be seen - I'm not prejudging the off-season on 12/6 but I wouldn't be shocked if he has an exit plan. the fucking Texas Rangers won a WS and Cohen's Mets aren't a playoff team today with the leagues highest payroll. I feel like it is harder than he thought it would be.
Texas is the right comparison. 2 offseasons ago many (myself very much included) were suspicious of spending $500m on seager + semian off a 60-102 season in 2021. that seemed like insanity.
it seemed like even greater insanity when they signed JDG last offseason off a not much better 68-94.
almost $700 million committed to 3 players and at that moment literally nothing to show for it. in fact seager had one of his worst offensive seasons and they still doubled down.
they went even more all in at the deadline with scherzer + montgomery even though jdg was down with TJS and only managed to win 90 games. but that turned out to be enough even though scherzer too got injured.
and corey seager who they signed in 2021, and had one of his worst offensive seasons in 2022, carried them to a ws in 2023. even though the houston astros still won the division and texas wouldn't have even been the wild card if it was the rules of a few years ago with 4 playoff teams.
im not positive what the moral of that story is but if your team has the chance to get great players, and as a fan it's not your money, why not? obviously you cant just spend blindly there needs to be a coherent plan and you need to get more evaluations right than wrong. but with so many teams making the playoffs now if you have an owner willing to take chances your odds are a lot higher things can change quickly.
I'm not sure what Texas did is directly repeatable. Just like I think in football drafting your QB in the 6th round with a comp pick as a strategy isn't really repeatable.
But anyway, my point was Cohen opening his wallet and players jumping on to the roster doesn't seem to be happening like he (or some fans on here) thought would happen.
For many reasons, players may want to play somewhere else for the same money or in some cases maybe less.
The sale of the team and the transition period was during the height of Covid and there were a bunch of unforeseen circumstances at the GM level. I don't think anyone ever thought that money alone buys you any player you want, and even if it did, buying every player wouldn't necessarily mean you would win.
He's thrown some of his financial weight around already in the form of Lindor and the pitching, and most importantly he's proven he will spend even more money if it means he can quickly reverse some decisions that didn't pan out. Last year's deadline was proof of this.
He finally has the guy he wanted (Stearns) in place to run the baseball decisions. Meanwhile he's done everything Mets fans could have ever dreamed of in terms of fan relations that the Wilpons pissed on for years.
As a long suffering Mets fan, I have no doubt that if Yamamoto does not come here, it will NOT be because the money wasn't there. That's all I can ask as a fan.
The sale of the team and the transition period was during the height of Covid and there were a bunch of unforeseen circumstances at the GM level. I don't think anyone ever thought that money alone buys you any player you want, and even if it did, buying every player wouldn't necessarily mean you would win.
He's thrown some of his financial weight around already in the form of Lindor and the pitching, and most importantly he's proven he will spend even more money if it means he can quickly reverse some decisions that didn't pan out. Last year's deadline was proof of this.
He finally has the guy he wanted (Stearns) in place to run the baseball decisions. Meanwhile he's done everything Mets fans could have ever dreamed of in terms of fan relations that the Wilpons pissed on for years.
As a long suffering Mets fan, I have no doubt that if Yamamoto does not come here, it will NOT be because the money wasn't there. That's all I can ask as a fan.
I think with Stearns there is a long term plan now. Never felt it prior but you are correct, it was a transitional period and covid, which played a role.