From his mailbag earlier.
Some snippets…
1) Mara isn’t like Jerruh when it comes to being involved in personnel calls.
2) Chris Mara has taken a step back in terms of personnel decisions per his sources.
3) Tim McDonnell-‘the nephew’ as I like to call him-has a ‘prominent role as director of player personnel.’
4) Duggan doesn’t think Mara is telling Schoen what to do, but he can’t speak as to the implicit influence that might be there.
5) Duggan believes Schoen made the final call in terms of Jones and Saquon, but again notes how ownership might have subconsciously influenced Joe into the Jones contract/decision because of Mara’s public gushing over the kid.
6) Duggan speculates Mara might step in to mend the Dabs/Wink relationship.
7) Duggan himself doesn’t think John is telling the football ops what to do on ‘individual moves.’
2) Ensure management is aligned to the long-term health of the the organization
3) Fan experience
I'm not convinced Mara acts outside those roles, but obviously he has failed massively at all three over the past decade.
to suggest that the OWNER of the team should have little to no influence on how the team is run its absolutely ridiculous to me.
2) Ensure management is aligned to the long-term health of the the organization
3) Fan experience
I'm not convinced Mara acts outside those roles, but obviously he has failed massively at all three over the past decade.
well summarized.
What might come out of #5 is Mara might say that Schoen committed to Jones with the contract; and, therefore, Jones should continue to be the starter in 2024. And cite the injuries as the reason/excuse.
Answer this. Would Tim McDonnell walk away from the Giants to be the general manager of the Browns for example?
As a GM or a coach you are going to be evaluated on the decisions that you make, so make them your decisions, not someone else's. I think if Mara was controlling the major decisions, many things would have leaked out by now from former employees who got let go because they enforced Mara's decisions instead of their own.
I do not have a problem at all with the owner saying what they would prefer, it is up to the professionals in the building to do what they think is best for the franchise.
Wellington preferred to keep Kerry Collins, the professionals in the building went a different route.
Telling Schoen its his call on the QB, then going on about how great Jones is isn't staying out of it...
In addition, I've linked an article from The Ringer on 2017 (BBI favorite Mike Lombardi) - even he thought Gettleman did well in Carolina. He made tough decisions to get the cap healthy which is what NYG needed in 2017 after the disaster that season.
Given Gettleman's track record and history with NYG, it's hard to bash that hire in real time. It was a disaster, but Gettleman was not a bad GM in Carolina.
Again, the results are the results. But, I do think people go too far with the Mara conspiracies.
Link - ( New Window )
And you know this how?
The Athletic
It's one of many questions
1.) Is my assumption true?
2.) Why doesn’t the media report on their involvement?
3.) To what degree is (John) Mara “suggesting” to rookie GM (Joe) Schoen what to do?
4.) Are we saddled with (QB Daniel) Jones’s $47M cap hit in 2024 because Mara wanted both (Saquon) Barkley and Jones back, so he “suggested” a multi-year deal for Jones and franchise-(tagging) Barkley rather than vice-versa? — Thomas R.
Dan Duggan:
Where exactly they fall ties into your other questions. As for the lack of reporting on their involvement, I’d argue that it’s been covered more here than anywhere. In the reporting of my story on Giants’ ownership last year, there was no “smoking gun” about any single decision being mandated by John Mara, Steve Tisch, et al.
But ownership is certainly involved. John Mara is in the facility every day, and he lives and breathes the team. Chris Mara’s title is senior player personnel executive, although sources have said he’s become less involved in personnel decisions in recent years. Tim McDonnell, who is from the next generation of the Mara family, has a prominent role as the director of player personnel.
To your third question, I don’t believe John Mara is dictating personnel decisions to Schoen. But it’s impossible to quantify the implicit influence of ownership. That was a topic that was raised by former front office employees in my deep dive into the organization last year.
I believe Schoen made the final decision on the fates of Jones and Barkley in the offseason. Remember that Schoen didn’t exercise Jones’ fifth-year option during the 2022 offseason. Now, did it “help” Schoen make the commitment to Jones knowing that his boss gushed about the quarterback at every opportunity? Again, that’s impossible to know, but it’s conceivable that it helped tip the scale.
Ownership is heavily involved on the highest-level decisions, such as coaching hires. And, as mentioned above, I can envision Mara interceding in the Daboll-Martindale relationship. Ownership signs off on major personnel decisions and definitely has input in the process, but I don’t believe Mara mandates individual moves.
MARA WANTS TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. He wants to be seen as an owner who keeps hands off, while being involved in all big decisions.
"John, what should we do with Daniel Jones?"
Quote:
Chris doesn't do anything and Tim basically handles logistics for Schoen's meetings and scouting trips.
And you know this how?
Comments John has made, and from others in the building. Tim sends out texts as well so there's that.
"John, what should we do with Daniel Jones?"
Likely, the proverbial distribution without a difference.
MARA WANTS TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. He wants to be seen as an owner who keeps hands off, while being involved in all big decisions.
I think this is a fact.
Quote:
There are different levels of being 'involved'. "John, what is your opinion on Daniel Jones?"
"John, what should we do with Daniel Jones?"
Likely, the proverbial distribution without a difference.
*distinction without a difference.
Number 3 is pretty important also.
Even if Nephew Tim is below Schoen on the org chart, he's above Schoen on the ownership chart. That's a problem even when things are aligned, and a disaster when things aren't.
Sure...John Mara himself might not be directly influencing decisions, but if you have familial mouthpieces involved on the player personnel side of things, you can attempt to have it both ways like someone stated above.
"John, what should we do with Daniel Jones?"
*Insert Pam from The Office*
"Sign Daniel Jones" and "Hey Joe, it sure would be nice to have Jones around for another few years. But whatever you think is best" are the same picture
Quote:
There are different levels of being 'involved'. "John, what is your opinion on Daniel Jones?"
"John, what should we do with Daniel Jones?"
*Insert Pam from The Office*
"Sign Daniel Jones" and "Hey Joe, it sure would be nice to have Jones around for another few years. But whatever you think is best" are the same picture
Yep
Go look at when C. Mara (new role) and T. McDonnell arrived on the scene and tell me there's no coincidence there.
is ANYONE claiming that the point he made was not true..
Three different coaches, 4 different OCs. No weapons to work with, One of the WORST offensive lines of all time. Barkley always hurt...
I mean really is what he said out of line? Now those things could be true AND Jones still couldnt be the right guy.. But to think that someone put undue influence on Schoen to keep the QB is ridiculous...
Its just fans venting...
And I have said this for a long time.. 90% of the people have NEVER even looked at Chris Mara OR Tim McDonnell's background or resume.. they just cry nepotism..
is ANYONE claiming that the point he made was not true..
Three different coaches, 4 different OCs. No weapons to work with, One of the WORST offensive lines of all time. Barkley always hurt...
I mean really is what he said out of line? Now those things could be true AND Jones still couldnt be the right guy.. But to think that someone put undue influence on Schoen to keep the QB is ridiculous...
Its just fans venting...
And I have said this for a long time.. 90% of the people have NEVER even looked at Chris Mara OR Tim McDonnell's background or resume.. they just cry nepotism..
There are special exceptions, like a GM wanting to sign a player with a troubled or controversial past. If an owner does not want their team associated with such a player then that is understandable. But as far as player evaluations, an owner's input should be considered, but with the appropriate value (they are not player evaluators, hired people to do just that, trust their decisions within reason)
The issue is the owner will meddle less once the team wins. It's easy not to meddle if the franchise has mostly won.
Say what you will about him, but Jerry Jones puts it all out there. He isn't hiding anything.
Quote:
"we have done everything possible to screw this kid up"
is ANYONE claiming that the point he made was not true..
Three different coaches, 4 different OCs. No weapons to work with, One of the WORST offensive lines of all time. Barkley always hurt...
I mean really is what he said out of line? Now those things could be true AND Jones still couldnt be the right guy.. But to think that someone put undue influence on Schoen to keep the QB is ridiculous...
Its just fans venting...
And I have said this for a long time.. 90% of the people have NEVER even looked at Chris Mara OR Tim McDonnell's background or resume.. they just cry nepotism..
it's not that what he said wasn't true, it's that he chose to say it to everyone publicly.
Who gives a crap that he said it publicly? It doesnt change anything.. only in the minds of this nuthouse of a fanbase.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
We find ourselves in the phase of bargaining within the spectrum of grief, where the acknowledgment of the team's prolonged ass performance, spanning over a decade, is eventually going to end. It's not. We are no different than the Browns or Jets, underscoring being the perennial bottom-feeders of the league. This struggle is emphasized by the continuous turnover of head coaches, coordinators, and two changes in GM over the years, pointing to glaring systemic issues within the organization.
The recurrent theme threading through these challenges is Wellington Mara, whose legacy appears to cast a shadow over the organization's fortunes. John Mara's tenure since assuming the presidency in 2005, following Wellington's death, reveals a trajectory marked by a descent into organizational disarray. This begs to question the efficacy of his leadership. Seriously, can anyone actually name something positive John Mara has done for this team that wasn't already in place before 2005?
The hope of securing a competent GM, head coach, or franchise quarterback remains our only hope. However, until such serendipity graces our franchise, the sobering reality remains that we are destined for an extended period of bad football (just bad enough to pick 5-10 consistently and never have the chance at a blue chip prospect, of course) as long as Mara is still at the helm.
I will still root for the Giants, as I have my entire life, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't lose the spark I once had. I've personally entered the final stage of grief - acceptance. Nothing is going to change, how could it? The franchise's net worth continues growing so why care about performance on the field? Steve Tisch (our false prophet) isn't going to start a war if his net worth climbs regardless. We have nobody to turn to. We are most likely never going to win another Super Bowl in my lifetime but I am blessed to have seen two, and my father to have seen four. John Mara has driven this organization to the ground.
4 and 5 is throwing shit against the wall to see if it sticks. It's just throwing out an opinion to stir something up.
I think franchise QB is an owner level decision in most of not all organizations. The problem is Mara was dead wrong on Jones being any good.
Quote:
will continue unchecked by reason.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
Its gotten ridiculous.. I have had several thoughts this season about disconnecting myself from the " noise " of the fanbase.
Got it.
I've said this before and I will say it again: Schoen was a hot GM commodity. He was not desperate for the Giants job. He's not DG, who would have done anything Mara wanted to get back into a FO. If anyone thinks, Schoen didn't make it perfectly clear he had final say and did not get a promise on that from Mara before taking the job, you're crazy.
it's definitely everyone else. EVERYTHING has been changed multiple times over the course of the past 10 years...
The players
The coordinators
The coaches
The GMs
It's probably not the constants in this little experiment.
To me 4 and 5 are the most ridiculous statements on the whole thread. 4. "Implicit influence that might be there" HUH?
5. "Subconsciously influenced Joe" Double HUH?
Well, I guess that proves the Mara meddling people on this board right.
Mara has been a disaster for the last decade for one primary reason: He's hired the wrong people and he hasn't stuck with a plan when it's been hard (McAdoo/Manning benching).
I don't waste time bitching about the owner because it isn't changing. The Giants are a family run business and will remain a family run business. Maybe they can take some pointers from the Steelers.
But, if the Giants draft Jayden Daniels or someone similar and he works with Daboll, things can turn around fast. And then we won't hear about the owner.
My biggest criticism is the loyalty to the QB's. This is where Mara needs to harden up. arniefez made the point which is just shocking - in the past decade, the Giants have only had two primary starting QB's. Given how awful they've been, that's really incredible.
You can criticize Mara for being afraid of chaos at QB and I think seeing Eli's career here really emphasized that.
it's definitely everyone else. EVERYTHING has been changed multiple times over the course of the past 10 years...
The players
The coordinators
The coaches
The GMs
It's probably not the constants in this little experiment.
Yup there it is.. thats what I was expecting...
Did you see me say that I think Mara has done a great job?
Nope..
But I realize one thing.. the owner is NOT going anywhere... accept that.. deal with it..
The ONE thing that I feel he finally did correctly was go OUTSIDE of his little window and comfort zone in terms of hiring..
Now where that goes remains to be seen...
But NOWHERE did you see me say he has done a BANGER of a job..
so yeah Reading is Fundamental.
Not only that, but it's usually 100% speculation
Nor do the people within the organization that are family.
That part, as they say, "is what it is."
But let's not pretend that Schoen has free reign to call the shots. There are certainly people within the organization that are near him constantly to make sure he's aware of what his boss' wishes are.