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No QB in the 1st round scenario

DonnieD89 : 12/8/2023 12:59 pm
If the value is not there for the QB’s, where the Giants would be picking in the 1st round, and Harrison and Nabers are off the board, do you grab Turner or Latu at edge over Oline or any other WR? I only put out this scenario, because the edge rusher position seems to be very top-heavy with OLine and wide receiver are more plentiful in the second round. I know value needs to be in line with pick, but say the talent does line up and there is similar value at OLine and WR.
If that's the case...  
jnoble : 12/8/2023 1:04 pm : link
They need to go OL or WR
Edge or WR  
JonC : 12/8/2023 1:06 pm : link
They got their O-Tackles.
I'd grab Turner  
JonC : 12/8/2023 1:09 pm : link
Latu isn't a lottery pick for me.
RE: Edge or WR  
logman : 12/8/2023 1:10 pm : link
In comment 16316424 JonC said:
Quote:
They got their O-Tackles.


Maybe add CB if Jackson walks. Robinson is a huge ? and Hawkins still needs development.
Edge is a very ignored need  
blueblood : 12/8/2023 1:14 pm : link
on this team. Ojulari is always hurt. Need someone opposite of Kayvon.
RE: RE: Edge or WR  
JonC : 12/8/2023 1:22 pm : link
In comment 16316430 logman said:
Quote:
In comment 16316424 JonC said:


Quote:


They got their O-Tackles.



Maybe add CB if Jackson walks. Robinson is a huge ? and Hawkins still needs development.


For me, the top CB prospects available are behind the top Edge/WR prospects at the moment. They will almost certainly add CBs this offseason, you can never have enough. Jackson will walk btw.
RE: RE: Edge or WR  
cosmicj : 12/8/2023 1:25 pm : link
In comment 16316430 logman said:
Quote:
In comment 16316424 JonC said:


Quote:


They got their O-Tackles.



Maybe add CB if Jackson walks. Robinson is a huge ? and Hawkins still needs development.
.

Flott is another very young developing player who could start next season.

I can’t even faintly see how CB is a need. The Giants are a team struggling controlling the line of scrimmage on both sides (and they need a QB), so they will spend two successive 1st rounders on CBs? No way.
RE: I'd grab Turner  
gary_from_chester : 12/8/2023 1:26 pm : link
In comment 16316429 JonC said:
Quote:
Latu isn't a lottery pick for me.


Turner and Thibs on the edges = Mayhem. Would love it. Grab Nix or Penix with a move at the back of the first or in the second - that’s already an A draft.
Yep  
JonC : 12/8/2023 1:28 pm : link
Not a huge fan of Penix, his game is too loose and I think he's going to struggle in the NFL. Nix scares me as I saw too much of his SEC struggles and he's surrounded by talent at Oregon.
If they’re picking out of the top 5  
Eman11 : 12/8/2023 1:31 pm : link
Is Bowers a consideration? I know we need another Edge rusher and WR but does he figure into the mix if the top guys are gone?

Several places I’ve seen have him rated in the 5-6 range, and if we’re somehow picking 7-9ish and he’s there it seems like great value for a very talented guy.
RE: RE: I'd grab Turner  
KDavies : 12/8/2023 1:32 pm : link
In comment 16316453 gary_from_chester said:
Quote:
In comment 16316429 JonC said:


Quote:


Latu isn't a lottery pick for me.



Turner and Thibs on the edges = Mayhem. Would love it. Grab Nix or Penix with a move at the back of the first or in the second - that’s already an A draft.


Would love Turner. If top 3 QBs and Harrison are gone, I'd love Turner or Nabers. Would probably take Turner over Nabers though.

Gotta look for a premium position first:  
81_Great_Dane : 12/8/2023 1:36 pm : link
In my view, that's QB, Edge, CB, WR, OT

We're stipulating QB is off the table.

The draft is loaded with talented WRs, no need to go WR in the first. Nice to have, not have-to-have.

The Giants bigger need is OG not OT.

I think Edge is a bigger need than CB, since Banks looks like a legit CB1. If a top edge is on the board, I'd take him.

Caveats:If Martindale parts ways with the Giants, that could change the base defenseive scheme. New guy may want a different mix of players. Same if Kafka leaves and/or if they replace the O-line coach. It's Daboll's O but I figure the new coach(es) would have input, especially in evaluation.

And, as always, team needs will look very different after free agency.
RE: RE: RE: I'd grab Turner  
DonnieD89 : 12/8/2023 1:37 pm : link
In comment 16316464 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 16316453 gary_from_chester said:


Quote:


In comment 16316429 JonC said:


Quote:


Latu isn't a lottery pick for me.



Turner and Thibs on the edges = Mayhem. Would love it. Grab Nix or Penix with a move at the back of the first or in the second - that’s already an A draft.



Would love Turner. If top 3 QBs and Harrison are gone, I'd love Turner or Nabers. Would probably take Turner over Nabers though.


I agree, only based on the lesser availability of talent at edge compared to WR. Love Nabers though, and would not hesitate to pull the trigger on him.
Thinking about edge,  
Angel Eyes : 12/8/2023 1:44 pm : link
what are the Giants looking for opposite Thibs, a more versatile SAM like Carl Banks or a 4-3 DE like Michael Strahan?
RE: RE: RE: Edge or WR  
logman : 12/8/2023 1:49 pm : link
In comment 16316451 JonC said:
Quote:

For me, the top CB prospects available are behind the top Edge/WR prospects at the moment. They will almost certainly add CBs this offseason, you can never have enough. Jackson will walk btw.


I assume he will. And fair enough point on the top CBs. I haven't dug into them yet.
If no QB  
ElitoCanton : 12/8/2023 2:20 pm : link
you trade down to gather picks for next year so you can trade up. This team needs to massively upgrade at QB at some point soon. If it can't happen this year, you have to make certain it can happen next season.
No QB scenario not a good one  
averagejoe : 12/8/2023 2:29 pm : link
Have to draft QB and I doubt their guy will be there in round two. Unless they plan to start DeVito.

Cannot and will not watch another game Jones starts. I'll assume it's a loss .
No to Turner  
uconngiant : 12/8/2023 2:31 pm : link
He is a rush end only and is never on the field on run-downs.

When UFA rolls around, watch what NYG does at QB  
JonC : 12/8/2023 2:34 pm : link
If they sign a UFA QB who's at least backup capable, it could be a clue regarding their grades or belief in availability of the premium draft QB prospects. Jones, UFA, Devito could be the 2024 bridge to the future, albeit a rather shite end result.
Latu  
Archer : 12/8/2023 2:36 pm : link
I have been watching tape on Latu.
He is an absolute beast.

He has violent and forceful hands and that translates well to the NFL.

He may not be as twitchy Turner but he is a better football player.

He always gives great effort,can cover, stop the run and rush the passer. He is much bigger than Turner and can hold the point of attack. Turner is a little light and can be handled by power.

He has great production this year against top competition
Latu has 49 tackles, 13 sacks, 2 int, 2 ff. Latu as opposed to Turner was singled out by the opposing offenses and doubled and triple teamed.

RE: If no QB  
DonnieD89 : 12/8/2023 2:37 pm : link
In comment 16316527 ElitoCanton said:
Quote:
you trade down to gather picks for next year so you can trade up. This team needs to massively upgrade at QB at some point soon. If it can't happen this year, you have to make certain it can happen next season.


JS has already stated that the Giants need another QB and it sounds like it’s going to happen this coming year. I don’t think the Giants are going to be waiting around for next year’s draft for a QB. JS’s and BD’s jobs maybe on the line and they have to get their QB soon. If they were to trade down this year. I think they would use that ammo to trade back up for one of the second tier QBs in late 1st round or 2nd round.
Edge, edge  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/8/2023 2:43 pm : link
or edge
RE: No to Turner  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/8/2023 2:51 pm : link
In comment 16316541 uconngiant said:
Quote:
He is a rush end only and is never on the field on run-downs.

According to PFF, Turner played 40% of his snaps on run downs this past year. Granted, he was far more effective on passing downs, and he is definitely a pass rusher first and foremost. But he's not a completely sieve in run defense (admittedly, I'm getting this mostly from his PFF metrics because I have not watched Bama enough to say that firsthand with much confidence).
Why would the Giants even consider a qb in the 1st rd, they already  
Jack Stroud : 12/8/2023 3:13 pm : link
have a very good qb and a very good back up? They have 3 picks in the 1st two rounds, oline, dline, pass rusher in any combination, should be their priority. After that they should be looking to upgrade other positions.
Stroud  
JonC : 12/8/2023 3:16 pm : link
You're not paying attention to the big picture.
RE: Why would the Giants even consider a qb in the 1st rd, they already  
Sean : 12/8/2023 3:17 pm : link
In comment 16316575 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
have a very good qb and a very good back up? They have 3 picks in the 1st two rounds, oline, dline, pass rusher in any combination, should be their priority. After that they should be looking to upgrade other positions.

Are you a bot? You say the same thing in every thread. They have a very good back up? Based on 3 games from Tommy DeVito?

DeVito is a very good backup yet Kyler Murray is a bust by your logic. I'm just trying to understand.
RE: Why would the Giants even consider a qb in the 1st rd, they already  
logman : 12/8/2023 3:19 pm : link
In comment 16316575 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
have a very good qb and a very good back up? They have 3 picks in the 1st two rounds, oline, dline, pass rusher in any combination, should be their priority. After that they should be looking to upgrade other positions.


They have one QB who will be rehabbing a knee injury and may not even be ready for the season let alone camp

Taylor is not under contract

DeVito is a nice story, and maybe a capable backup, but that's about it.

The NY Giants need a QB to add to the roster. Maybe two.
Fix the OL please  
Carl in CT : 12/8/2023 3:27 pm : link
Any (and I mean any) QB in football with the shit we have put out there on the OL will FAIL. It’s not up for debate. With 20 out of 30 qbs hurt year in and year out it’s cause of the crap in front of them.
RE: Why would the Giants even consider a qb in the 1st rd, they already  
ElitoCanton : 12/8/2023 3:29 pm : link
Giants do not even have a mediocre starter on the roster let alone a very good QB. Do you ever watch other teams play. Being in a Daniel Jones defense cult is a disease.

In comment 16316575 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
have a very good qb and a very good back up? They have 3 picks in the 1st two rounds, oline, dline, pass rusher in any combination, should be their priority. After that they should be looking to upgrade other positions.
RE: Edge or WR  
Milton : 12/8/2023 3:32 pm : link
In comment 16316424 JonC said:
Quote:
They got their O-Tackles.
If the grade warrants it, I would certainly include Bowers. And given the troubles Neal and Ezeudu (staying healthy and protecting the QB) I wouldn't pass on Fashanu if he is the blue chip prospect the draftniks make him out to be. George Young's planet theory hasn't gone the way of the dinosaur just because it's become a passing league and WR's are now all the rage.
OL is unlikely imv  
JonC : 12/8/2023 3:33 pm : link
They're unlikely to spend another top 10 pick at OT, and there's no Quenton Nelson up there to be had.
And, if they do go OL in the top 10  
JonC : 12/8/2023 3:35 pm : link
that's a horseshit outcome, given the current state of affairs.
RE: Fix the OL please  
DonnieD89 : 12/8/2023 3:37 pm : link
In comment 16316584 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Any (and I mean any) QB in football with the shit we have put out there on the OL will FAIL. It’s not up for debate. With 20 out of 30 qbs hurt year in and year out it’s cause of the crap in front of them.


Agree that the line needs to be fixed; however, it appears the weakest link is the guard position. Do the Giants really need to draft a guard with the first overall pick? I think Giants need to dip into free agency and get the best guard out there. Getting a top-notch guard through free agency is not going to significantly cripple the salary cap. I do think that the Giants need to put a very experienced guard next to Evan Neal to help him. Also, coaching staff needs to stop dicking around with the OLine line up and just keep the best five guys out there. Part of the problem is chemistry, as well as the coaching.
RE: RE: Why would the Giants even consider a qb in the 1st rd, they already  
Mike from Ohio : 12/8/2023 3:39 pm : link
In comment 16316578 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 16316575 Jack Stroud said:


Quote:


have a very good qb and a very good back up? They have 3 picks in the 1st two rounds, oline, dline, pass rusher in any combination, should be their priority. After that they should be looking to upgrade other positions.


Are you a bot? You say the same thing in every thread. They have a very good back up? Based on 3 games from Tommy DeVito?

DeVito is a very good backup yet Kyler Murray is a bust by your logic. I'm just trying to understand.


Stroud isn't someone you can have a discussion with. He just states his same opinion, verbatim in every thread. He has to be related to Daniel Jones if he isn't Daniel Jones.

He may be Dave Gettelman...
For me  
darren in pdx : 12/8/2023 3:46 pm : link
depending on where they pick, it's either trading up for a QB or an Edge/WR worthy of their slot. Otherwise trade down if possible and go BPA in the 1st and load up the o-line depth with whatever picks acquired.
Over valued  
Giants : 12/8/2023 3:48 pm : link
We see it in every draft. The QB position is such a priority. That teams and fans over value a QB.No QB in this draft is actually a top 7 pick. Will one or two get drafted in top 5. I would bet it happens. Giants need to be smart and not over value a player. They need to get the best player at edge, OL CB that is available when it's their turn
RE: Thinking about edge,  
FStubbs : 12/8/2023 3:52 pm : link
In comment 16316488 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
what are the Giants looking for opposite Thibs, a more versatile SAM like Carl Banks or a 4-3 DE like Michael Strahan?


Another blue goose pass rusher.
RE: Over valued  
Sean : 12/8/2023 3:53 pm : link
In comment 16316608 Giants said:
Quote:
We see it in every draft. The QB position is such a priority. That teams and fans over value a QB.No QB in this draft is actually a top 7 pick. Will one or two get drafted in top 5. I would bet it happens. Giants need to be smart and not over value a player. They need to get the best player at edge, OL CB that is available when it's their turn

Best available OL? How has that worked out. They've got 2 tackles who were picked in the top 10.
RE: RE: If no QB  
joeinpa : 12/8/2023 4:12 pm : link
In comment 16316546 DonnieD89 said:
Quote:
In comment 16316527 ElitoCanton said:


Quote:


you trade down to gather picks for next year so you can trade up. This team needs to massively upgrade at QB at some point soon. If it can't happen this year, you have to make certain it can happen next season.



JS has already stated that the Giants need another QB and it sounds like it’s going to happen this coming year. I don’t think the Giants are going to be waiting around for next year’s draft for a QB. JS’s and BD’s jobs maybe on the line and they have to get their QB soon. If they were to trade down this year. I think they would use that ammo to trade back up for one of the second tier QBs in late 1st round or 2nd round.


It s not complicated. Giants probably would love to be able to draft a quarterback, maybe they really like 2 or even 3 of them. But if they are unable to do so because of draft position and or cost of moving up, they will be signing a qb in FA.

You don’t always get what you want.

RE: RE: RE: If no QB  
joeinpa : 12/8/2023 4:15 pm : link
In comment 16316624 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 16316546 DonnieD89 said:


Quote:


In comment 16316527 ElitoCanton said:


Quote:


you trade down to gather picks for next year so you can trade up. This team needs to massively upgrade at QB at some point soon. If it can't happen this year, you have to make certain it can happen next season.



JS has already stated that the Giants need another QB and it sounds like it’s going to happen this coming year. I don’t think the Giants are going to be waiting around for next year’s draft for a QB. JS’s and BD’s jobs maybe on the line and they have to get their QB soon. If they were to trade down this year. I think they would use that ammo to trade back up for one of the second tier QBs in late 1st round or 2nd round.



It s not complicated. Giants probably would love to be able to draft a quarterback, maybe they really like 2 or even 3 of them. But if they are unable to do so because of draft position and or cost of moving up, they will be signing a qb in FA.

You don’t always get what you want.


I should add or draft a developmental qb later in the draft
RE: RE: Over valued  
Mike from Ohio : 12/8/2023 4:27 pm : link
In comment 16316612 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 16316608 Giants said:


Quote:


We see it in every draft. The QB position is such a priority. That teams and fans over value a QB.No QB in this draft is actually a top 7 pick. Will one or two get drafted in top 5. I would bet it happens. Giants need to be smart and not over value a player. They need to get the best player at edge, OL CB that is available when it's their turn


Best available OL? How has that worked out. They've got 2 tackles who were picked in the top 10.


If our own recent history doesn't tell you picking offensive lineman high in the first round is just as risky a proposition as a QB, you haven't been paying attention. Those top prospects absolutely bust frequently. Adn to JonC's point, we need guards and there are no top tier prospects there this year.

A poster above said we need to fix the Oline and gave a stat that 20 of 30 starters have been injured because of poor Oline play (which is dubious). But if you believe that, and you believe 20 teams in the league can't fix the problem, why do you keep saying it like it is an idea that never occured to anyone? Getting 5 average to above average linemen and keeping them healthy is difficult. Teams are not simply forgetting about it.
If  
DG_89 : 12/8/2023 4:27 pm : link
no QB, then it's EDGE, WR, CB. Question is are CB and EDGE as deep as WR?
RE: Yep  
LauderdaleMatty : 12/8/2023 6:02 pm : link
In comment 16316457 JonC said:
Quote:
Not a huge fan of Penix, his game is too loose and I think he's going to struggle in the NFL. Nix scares me as I saw too much of his SEC struggles and he's surrounded by talent at Oregon.


And he's hasn't faced a single good D. Nix in round 3 I'm ok w. Before that you're taking a huge risk. And passing on players who are definitely much better prospects.
Verse -Florida State  
gtt350 : 12/8/2023 7:51 pm : link
LT baby
OL, including T  
fkap : 12/8/2023 9:38 pm : link
is absolutely a position where BPA would be in play IF there's a draft candidate worth considering. The draft pool will be the limiting condition, not the position. A beast at G or T staring us in the face would be draft worthy, but others have said there isn't likely to be one. Neal is not good enough to warrant bypassing a worthy candidate.

We have dire need at a lot of the skill positions. BPA/value will apply across the board. QB is the only position that should trump BPA, and that's only if the talent is close to the top tier of players.
 
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2023 9:39 pm : link
Unless they think Joe Alt is Lane Johnson I don’t think they are going OL in round 2.

For me it’s Turner, Nabors, Odunze, Verse in that order.

 
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2023 9:39 pm : link
Round 1* I meant
Jared Verse from FSU  
section125 : 12/9/2023 6:01 am : link
at edge. 6'4" 260. Solid against the run too. I see CBS has moved him ahead of Turner in the #9 position just behind Latu. I do not think he has injury concerns. CBS has Latu, Verse and Turner ranked 8, 9, 10 overall.
ER is definitely a premium position and a position of need. Look to early 2nd for QB and then DT with the 2nd 2nd rounder as long as they cannot get a top QB (just not a QB for QB's sake in round 1).
I think  
Sammo85 : 12/9/2023 8:06 am : link
Odunze could be in convo at WR.
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