Looks like Penix is experiencing the jitters. May need another drive to get into the flow of the game. Problem is, with Michigan’s run game, drives are gonna be scarce to come by.
Looked like an option route where he either breaks inside or outside. That's where those types of throws come up on NFL interviews and asks McCarthy about the route. If it's an option route then it's acceptable, if not then that's a negative against him.
Looked like an option route where he either breaks inside or outside. That's where those types of throws come up on NFL interviews and asks McCarthy about the route. If it's an option route then it's acceptable, if not then that's a negative against him.
Morgan is a freshman WR. He may have gone to the wrong spot there.
1) prevent Washington from hitting big plays on offense
2) play conservatively & avoid turning the ball over on offense
3) rely on your run game to absolutely crush the spirit of the Washington D
I just can’t imagine they expected their game plan to work this well this quickly
1) prevent Washington from hitting big plays on offense
2) play conservatively & avoid turning the ball over on offense
3) rely on your run game to absolutely crush the spirit of the Washington D
I just can’t imagine they expected their game plan to work this well this quickly
How much I call that a miss by Penix. He threw it too the shoulder away from the defender. It FEELS more like Odunze made a bad adjustment to the ball.
Is going to make great adjustments offensively, which could change the game. Harbaugh should never have gone for it on.4th and 3. Now it’s a one score game.
Is going to make great adjustments offensively, which could change the game. Harbaugh should never have gone for it on.4th and 3. Now it’s a one score game.
Michigan has been a second half team for most of the past two seasons.
Washington is in a pretty good spot with the ball to start the 2nd. Although Michigan ran for 200 yards they did it with big plays so Michigan didn't have a huge TOP advantage (WU has it) which gave WU enough chances with the ball.
Michigan has been a outstanding second half team when I have seen them.
I think last week, where it was mentioned that if you had switched Michael Penix to righty throwing motion, it would look like Dan Marino. That last touchdown by Penix to McMillan definitely did look like a Marino pass.
Is going to make great adjustments offensively, which could change the game. Harbaugh should never have gone for it on.4th and 3. Now it’s a one score game.
Michigan has been a second half team for most of the past two seasons.
All they have to do is stop trying to give McCarthy tape for the scouts and focus on winning by getting back to the run game. No reason to abandon it the way they did.
Is going to make great adjustments offensively, which could change the game. Harbaugh should never have gone for it on.4th and 3. Now it’s a one score game.
Michigan has been a second half team for most of the past two seasons.
All they have to do is stop trying to give McCarthy tape for the scouts and focus on winning by getting back to the run game. No reason to abandon it the way they did.
When McCarthy hands off and gets out of the way. No reason to involve him.
That's how UM beat Penn State. In the second half, the best hand-offer in the country kept feeding his backs and they won going away. Never passed in the second half.
It was the best half of handing-off I've ever seen...
I don’t see it with JJ but there is something I like about Peniix—seems to have a good feel, quick release, good zip on the ball, and looks like he has short memory.
doesn't trust McCarthy to throw the ball, not unless it's something extremely simple. Those runs on first and second down when they were backed up inside their 10 are proof, and were very similar to what Kafka did with Barkley this year because our QB play was so poor.
These play calls are Harbaugh correctly acknowledging that McCarthy is very limited as a QB.
doesn't trust McCarthy to throw the ball, not unless it's something extremely simple. Those runs on first and second down when they were backed up inside their 10 are proof, and were very similar to what Kafka did with Barkley this year because our QB play was so poor.
These play calls are Harbaugh correctly acknowledging that McCarthy is very limited as a QB.
No - this is what they have been doing all year. Has nothing to do with McCarthy. Has to do with a bad play caller trying not to lose.
They trusted M Cathy against Bama. This OC is just really that bad.
Outside Biwling Green with an INT. He’s not a turnover machine. He completes nearly 77% of his passes.
I’ve been telling people all year. Sherrone Moore is a god awful OC. You don’t have a guy who is being talked about being drafted in round 1-2 as a guy your afraid to throw the ball.
You have a young OC who coaches scare. He’s terrible.
Isn’t good. I’ve watched him a few times this year and I just don’t see it with him. Isn’t good when pressured and he misses too many throws for my liking.
Isn’t good. I’ve watched him a few times this year and I just don’t see it with him. Isn’t good when pressured and he misses too many throws for my liking.
Second round sure but no way at 6
Why would you want to draft him in the 2nd round if you think he isn’t good?
Isn’t good. I’ve watched him a few times this year and I just don’t see it with him. Isn’t good when pressured and he misses too many throws for my liking.
Second round sure but no way at 6
Both of these QBs making a huge statement that they can’t play well under pressure.
Isn’t good. I’ve watched him a few times this year and I just don’t see it with him. Isn’t good when pressured and he misses too many throws for my liking.
Second round sure but no way at 6
Can't look at one game in a vacuum. But he has been off tonight. The entire offense is out of sync. That's what big game pressure does...
doesn't trust McCarthy to throw the ball, not unless it's something extremely simple. Those runs on first and second down when they were backed up inside their 10 are proof, and were very similar to what Kafka did with Barkley this year because our QB play was so poor.
These play calls are Harbaugh correctly acknowledging that McCarthy is very limited as a QB.
No - this is what they have been doing all year. Has nothing to do with McCarthy. Has to do with a bad play caller trying not to lose.
They trusted M Cathy against Bama. This OC is just really that bad.
I agree the play caller is bad, but they don't trust McCarthy. He didn't throw a single pass in the second half against Penn State, and their passing game tonight is basically designed to just get him simple throws. They're trying to win with the running game and defense.
Isn’t good. I’ve watched him a few times this year and I just don’t see it with him. Isn’t good when pressured and he misses too many throws for my liking.
Second round sure but no way at 6
Can't look at one game in a vacuum. But he has been off tonight. The entire offense is out of sync. That's what big game pressure does...
Isn’t good. I’ve watched him a few times this year and I just don’t see it with him. Isn’t good when pressured and he misses too many throws for my liking.
Second round sure but no way at 6
Why would you want to draft him in the 2nd round if you think he isn’t good?
Penix is a bit hobbled, Johnson is hurt, and they are trying to overcome a pretty large talent gap. When you can’t run the ball this is what happens, add in the drops too and it’s no different from the NFL. Hard to win with that combo.
Penix is not playing well tonight, but he has some skills you can’t coach.
McCarthy runs fast. And according to Holly Rowe, has the best mental health and mental health tools of anyone. I have no idea how she evaluated that, but she sure sounded sure of it.
Penix is not playing well tonight, but he has some skills you can’t coach.
McCarthy runs fast. And according to Holly Rowe, has the best mental health and mental health tools of anyone. I have no idea how she evaluated that, but she sure sounded sure of it.
all they’ve let Michigan get away with in the secondary
Ha - yeah Penix would have been sacked without the hold. Grabs with the left, then throws him down with the right. It doesn't get much easier than that. I saw that before the ball was thrown.
all they’ve let Michigan get away with in the secondary
Ha - yeah Penix would have been sacked without the hold. Grabs with the left, then throws him down with the right. It doesn't get much easier than that. I saw that before the ball was thrown.
all they’ve let Michigan get away with in the secondary
Ha - yeah Penix would have been sacked without the hold. Grabs with the left, then throws him down with the right. It doesn't get much easier than that. I saw that before the ball was thrown.
Not the point. I think it was holding, but they've not flagged UM for more egregious grabs on both sides.
RE: RE: I didn't care for McCarthy before the game
D is the key to this game. They are fast and attacking. Very impressive.
And the refs are letting them get away with a ton...
Maybe a couple, but we don't see what Washington is doing. As long as it is both ways.
I've been doing some re-winding and the Michigan back seven are being very physical past five yards. And if they aren't going to call it, may as well stay with it, right?
But now that I've learned that he brushes his teeth with his left hand to rewire his neural pathways, I can't stand him.
If we draft him we have to hire that “psychologist” too right
Seems a bit unwired. Scratch him of the list.
Yeah I hope he is not on the Giants draft board, Betweent eh labored mechanics, poor accuracy, look at me theatrics of meditating on the field, and the “we only cheated because Ohio State did first” - this guy screams “not ready for NFL”
all they’ve let Michigan get away with in the secondary
Ha - yeah Penix would have been sacked without the hold. Grabs with the left, then throws him down with the right. It doesn't get much easier than that. I saw that before the ball was thrown.
Not the point. I think it was holding, but they've not flagged UM for more egregious grabs on both sides.
What could be more eggregious than that? Herbstreit calling every tug a hold doesn't make it so. Yes there have been a couple that could have been called, I agree.
all they’ve let Michigan get away with in the secondary
Ha - yeah Penix would have been sacked without the hold. Grabs with the left, then throws him down with the right. It doesn't get much easier than that. I saw that before the ball was thrown.
Not the point. I think it was holding, but they've not flagged UM for more egregious grabs on both sides.
What could be more eggregious than that? Herbstreit calling every tug a hold doesn't make it so. Yes there have been a couple that could have been called, I agree.
Herbstreit seems to be going for UW. The are showing replay of ever contested UW pass, but none of UM's?
What could be more eggregious than that? Herbstreit calling every tug a hold doesn't make it so. Yes there have been a couple that could have been called, I agree.
Herbstreit seems to be going for UW. The are showing replay of ever contested UW pass, but none of UM's?
I never cared for Penix at Indiana so I just can't get behind the guy as a prospect. Same with Nix. Congrats to the Michigan fans here. It's been a long time. Enjoy this
Someone said he's a one-read QB. Take away his first read and he'll crumble. Michigan did that tonight and shut Penix down, arm talent or not. That plus his medical history and I don't know how anyone could want him in the first round.
I mean he was lights out for 2 years but hasn't played a defense like Michigan.
Probably not much. He more so had an opportunity to really improve his stock tonight and didn’t. Don’t think it changes much in the other direction and shouldn’t. Michigan is the best defense in the country. Caleb was awful against ND, Maye had some rough games, etc. Changes fan perception though as most people didn’t watch those games but watched tonight
I believe the quote the other day was “Penix does everything better than Daniel Jones”
Jones is a better runner. Penix does everything else better.
No
There is nobody on this board who is worse at evaluating QB play than you. Nobody. I will give you credit though - you will never, ever change a single thought you have, no matter what evidence is presented to you.
Can we kill Williams, Maye, and Daniels for not even sniffing this game?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
There is a lot of overreaction on this thread. Penix played poorly on the biggest stage and that means something. However, he is still the guy who lit up Texas seven days ago.
Can we kill Williams, Maye, and Daniels for not even sniffing this game?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
There is a lot of overreaction on this thread. Penix played poorly on the biggest stage and that means something. However, he is still the guy who lit up Texas seven days ago.
His weaknesses:
Poor mechanics
Poor footwork
Poor reading
Not good on intermediate routes
That was on full display tonight. People have been mentioning this all year about him but it was masked by playing horrific Pac 12 defenses.
Strange time to be talking up Daniel Jones. The guy has been a complete bust, but you need to shit on a college QB who played a bad game to feel better about him?
If Daniel Jones re-entered the 2024 draft, he would like be a Day 3 pick.
RE: RE: So if we can kill Penix solely for tonight
Can we kill Williams, Maye, and Daniels for not even sniffing this game?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
There is a lot of overreaction on this thread. Penix played poorly on the biggest stage and that means something. However, he is still the guy who lit up Texas seven days ago.
The two best things I saw all season were Daniels against Florida and Penix against Texas. I agree that Penix had a tough night, but that doesn't change anything in my eyes.
the board after tonight's game. I don't see it with Penix, too one-dimensional. I like McCarthy's raw skills, but he needs to either return to school for another year or find the ideal NFL situation where he can sit for 1-2 years and learn.
Giants played themselves out of the top three guys and will either have to maneuver to try and get to top of draft, take Nix in early second round, or punt the QB decision another year.
Can we kill Williams, Maye, and Daniels for not even sniffing this game?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
There is a lot of overreaction on this thread. Penix played poorly on the biggest stage and that means something. However, he is still the guy who lit up Texas seven days ago.
His weaknesses:
Poor mechanics
Poor footwork
Poor reading
Not good on intermediate routes
That was on full display tonight. People have been mentioning this all year about him but it was masked by playing horrific Pac 12 defenses.
I am not a huge Penix guy, so not sure why this is directed at me, but yeah he is limited. He is also much better than McCarthy who you seem to fall all over.
Can we kill Williams, Maye, and Daniels for not even sniffing this game?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
There is a lot of overreaction on this thread. Penix played poorly on the biggest stage and that means something. However, he is still the guy who lit up Texas seven days ago.
The two best things I saw all season were Daniels against Florida and Penix against Texas. I agree that Penix had a tough night, but that doesn't change anything in my eyes.
Michigan gave a blueprint on how to beat him that NFL teams can copy
Can we kill Williams, Maye, and Daniels for not even sniffing this game?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
There is a lot of overreaction on this thread. Penix played poorly on the biggest stage and that means something. However, he is still the guy who lit up Texas seven days ago.
The two best things I saw all season were Daniels against Florida and Penix against Texas. I agree that Penix had a tough night, but that doesn't change anything in my eyes.
He was great vs Texas and terrible tonight. Didn't like the way he played but had several drops.
The two best things I saw all season were Daniels against Florida and Penix against Texas. I agree that Penix had a tough night, but that doesn't change anything in my eyes.
Why would you ever admit you’re wrong? Lol
I told you guys on another thread:Penix is a one read QB
Penix would intrigue me in the 2nd round but the injuries scare me with Penix. I could see McCarthy in like rd 3-4 if Daboll likes him. Maybe he sits a year or two behind Jones/a vet?
Not really the game we needed if you wanted more first round QBs IMO.
Can we kill Williams, Maye, and Daniels for not even sniffing this game?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
There is a lot of overreaction on this thread. Penix played poorly on the biggest stage and that means something. However, he is still the guy who lit up Texas seven days ago.
The two best things I saw all season were Daniels against Florida and Penix against Texas. I agree that Penix had a tough night, but that doesn't change anything in my eyes.
Michigan gave a blueprint on how to beat him that NFL teams can copy
Yep. He had a horrific game against the best defense he faced, but because terps has picked his “guy”, he’s going to ignore objective evidence because it fucks up his narrative.
RE: RE: RE: RE: So if we can kill Penix solely for tonight
The two best things I saw all season were Daniels against Florida and Penix against Texas. I agree that Penix had a tough night, but that doesn't change anything in my eyes.
Why would you ever admit you’re wrong? Lol
Nope. Never
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: So if we can kill Penix solely for tonight
Can we kill Williams, Maye, and Daniels for not even sniffing this game?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
There is a lot of overreaction on this thread. Penix played poorly on the biggest stage and that means something. However, he is still the guy who lit up Texas seven days ago.
The two best things I saw all season were Daniels against Florida and Penix against Texas. I agree that Penix had a tough night, but that doesn't change anything in my eyes.
Michigan gave a blueprint on how to beat him that NFL teams can copy
Yep. He had a horrific game against the best defense he faced, but because terps has picked his “guy”, he’s going to ignore objective evidence because it fucks up his narrative.
Maybe Penix will be good when Malik Willis is a competent NFL QB
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: So if we can kill Penix solely for tonight
The two best things I saw all season were Daniels against Florida and Penix against Texas. I agree that Penix had a tough night, but that doesn't change anything in my eyes.
Why would you ever admit you’re wrong? Lol
Nope. Never
NEVER will he. He loves penix and even after a shit game in a big spot it’s oh I’m not wrong
The “blueprint” to beat Penix is pressure in his face?
That is the “blueprint” to beat every QB. All of them. Michigan’D rattled him and he was off all night. That was not some kind of new defensive scheme.
No QB is evaluated on one game. Penix didn’t make a good case for himself tonight, but he didn’t just fall off a bunch of NFL boards tonight anymore than he climbed on them last weekend against Texas.
NFL talent evaluators are not drawing conclusions on any single game, good or bad.
He takes a lot of time trying to read the defense pre-snap. It’s asking his O-line to stay in their stances for a long time. Lead to many false starts. ,
RE: The “blueprint” to beat Penix is pressure in his face?
That is the “blueprint” to beat every QB. All of them. Michigan’D rattled him and he was off all night. That was not some kind of new defensive scheme.
No QB is evaluated on one game. Penix didn’t make a good case for himself tonight, but he didn’t just fall off a bunch of NFL boards tonight anymore than he climbed on them last weekend against Texas.
NFL talent evaluators are not drawing conclusions on any single game, good or bad.
Please quit making sense. Not for one second am I comparing Penix to Mahomes, but Mahomes a few years back really struggled in the SB against Tampa Bay. He and the Chiefs got rolled. Sometimes the other team is just better that night...
needs to get credit too. He recruited many of the players and was the "liaison" between the players and Jim for a few years because Jim's social skills are uh...interesting.
He takes a lot of time trying to read the defense pre-snap. It’s asking his O-line to stay in their stances for a long time. Lead to many false starts. ,
That is not unusual. Almost every QB now barely gets the snap before 4 seconds on the clock - most near zero.
Any honest conversation about QB on BBI is impossible
Can we kill Williams, Maye, and Daniels for not even sniffing this game?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
There is a lot of overreaction on this thread. Penix played poorly on the biggest stage and that means something. However, he is still the guy who lit up Texas seven days ago.
The two best things I saw all season were Daniels against Florida and Penix against Texas. I agree that Penix had a tough night, but that doesn't change anything in my eyes.
Michigan gave a blueprint on how to beat him that NFL teams can copy
Yep. He had a horrific game against the best defense he faced, but because terps has picked his “guy”, he’s going to ignore objective evidence because it fucks up his narrative.
+1000
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: So if we can kill Penix solely for tonight
Can we kill Williams, Maye, and Daniels for not even sniffing this game?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
There is a lot of overreaction on this thread. Penix played poorly on the biggest stage and that means something. However, he is still the guy who lit up Texas seven days ago.
The two best things I saw all season were Daniels against Florida and Penix against Texas. I agree that Penix had a tough night, but that doesn't change anything in my eyes.
Michigan gave a blueprint on how to beat him that NFL teams can copy
Yep. He had a horrific game against the best defense he faced, but because terps has picked his “guy”, he’s going to ignore objective evidence because it fucks up his narrative.
Maybe Penix will be good when Malik Willis is a competent NFL QB
Ha ha, yep..
RE: Any honest conversation about QB on BBI is impossible
If the QB isn't on the Giants, it seems they get permanently judged based on a single game if they play poor.
Playing poor (or great) in one game is not the determining factor, but rather when faced with as close to NFL conditions as Penix would get he folded like a lawn chair. He clearly didn’t look anywhere close to the top QB’s in the draft to justify taking him 6th overall as some on BBI have selected. Even though Michigan won, I still wouldn’t take JJ McCarthy that high as the DJ joke was accurate. This team won because of their Defense.
RE: RE: I told you guys on another thread:Penix is a one read QB
Very impressive job by Harbaugh getting them to the top and it seems like a great group of young men. Great season for Washington who looks to have a very strong HC in place for plenty of good seasons ahead. Michigan just won the battle of the LOS and hard for teams to overcome that.
I though McCarthy made some plays. You can see why he is being talked about as a 1st rounder but a lot to work on.
Tough night for Penix. Quite a few poor throws and panic syndrome in the pocket. Won't help being gimpy in the second half for some teams with his past injury history.
Let’s say we replace Penix in this game with either Williams, Maye, or Daniels, which none of these players had faced Michigan’s defense this year. How do you think they would react to Michigan’s defense? I know it would be a difficult question to answer, because it’s never gonna happen, but I’m just curious to see how the other QB would handle Michigan. Personally, I think Daniells’ ability to run, may have caused Michigan more problems.
So Penix can have a terrible game, miss wide open throws, be horrific against pressure, be late on easy throws, and yet, "nothing changes" for the evaluation.
In college and pros, your quarterback just absolutely must be able to make plays with his legs.
That’s the thing that worried me most about last night and Penix. There were numerous opportunities to take off. Gaping holes that he could have picked up huge yardage. And he absolutely refused to even consider it. I just kept imagining had that been Daniels, Maye or Williams they’d have had an enormous game on the ground o and Michigan would have had to account for it. Washington likely left a lot of points on the board because the QB doesn’t have the running game in his arsenal
I though McCarthy made some plays. You can see why he is being talked about as a 1st rounder but a lot to work on.
I see it the complete other way. Last night was another example why DJ McCarthy should not be touched on day one or day two right now.
So you think he's similar to Jones? I don't know, JJ's arm seems stronger and he's probably more athletic.
I thought the past two games didn't change the needle much for him. The tying drive against Alabama probably helped him. I know Michigan doesn't ask much of him, but that's how Harbaugh has traditionally run his offense and he seems to rate McCarthy very highly. For a guy who turned Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick into viable NFL QBs, I don't take that very lightly.
So Penix can have a terrible game, miss wide open throws, be horrific against pressure, be late on easy throws, and yet, "nothing changes" for the evaluation.
Interesting.
It would be borderline criminal for a team to make a big commitment to an often injured quarterback, who really only had one solid season. Who had one good playoff game, and then in the next round got thoroughly exposed.
but if McCarthy wants to be a high pick - hes better staying in school and transferring out to a school that will showcase his throwing ability. Michigan will always be a running school.
So Penix can have a terrible game, miss wide open throws, be horrific against pressure, be late on easy throws, and yet, "nothing changes" for the evaluation.
Interesting.
I though Penix's bad game against good competition was a different type of bad QB game than what Jones has put up recently.
Penix last night reminded me of a bad Eli game from his prime. A little skittish, sloppy footwork, and the aim just being off in general. But like Eli, I do value that Penix was still constantly trying to make plays in the intermediate and deep portions of the field, trying to throw into tight windows, and trying to put his recievers in 50/50 scenarios, even if he threw high every time.
Contrast that with what Jones does in overmatched scenarios going back to the Philly playoff game: either dump off the ball as fast as possible, run aimlessly, or take a sack. Like Sy said in the SF game review, he prefers to be "just there" if things are going wrong.
This is all moot however as I doubt Penix is on the Giants board considering that he's not the type of QB Daboll tends to work with and he also doesn't tick the traditional Giants QB boxes.
So Penix can have a terrible game, miss wide open throws, be horrific against pressure, be late on easy throws, and yet, "nothing changes" for the evaluation.
Interesting.
How many people changed their opinion of Williams after Notre Dame? Or to go back farther, Darnold after Ohio St. Trying to evaluated QBs who play in the Pac-12 is a very risky proposition.
On one game of tape is not something us fans are guilty of. The Giants do it all the time going back to Gettleman deciding that Eli was fine based on his performance in the second Eagles game in 2017.
And the Giants aren't the only team and fanbase guilty of this; see the Bears talking themselves into Fields after a couple of good games the end of this season.
These organizations would be better served utilizing this concept called statistics - both traditional and advanced - which provides you a sample size of data that you can benchmark against other QBs and the film you have. Crazy idea.
was fairly recently a SB MVP. He gained less than half a football field in yardage for the season with a whopping 3c/6y in the SB.
QB's absolutely need to be athletic enough to maneuver in the pocket.
Stafford is a future Hall of Famer. Can we not compare Penix to an elite outlier? And he also maneuvers in the pocket extremely well. I didn’t see any of that from Penix last night. He just stood in the pocket and let the pressure come to him
was fairly recently a SB MVP. He gained less than half a football field in yardage for the season with a whopping 3c/6y in the SB.
QB's absolutely need to be athletic enough to maneuver in the pocket.
Stafford is a future Hall of Famer. Can we not compare Penix to an elite outlier? And he also maneuvers in the pocket extremely well. I didn’t see any of that from Penix last night. He just stood in the pocket and let the pressure come to him
Penix to Stafford BBS? I simply commented to what I thought was a foolish comment when someone said that QB's "absolutely" need to make plays with their legs in college and the pros. Now having a QB who can make plays with his legs is a nice thing to have but it is not a mandate.
So you think he's similar to Jones? I don't know, JJ's arm seems stronger and he's probably more athletic.
I thought the past two games didn't change the needle much for him. The tying drive against Alabama probably helped him. I know Michigan doesn't ask much of him, but that's how Harbaugh has traditionally run his offense and he seems to rate McCarthy very highly. For a guy who turned Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick into viable NFL QBs, I don't take that very lightly.
You pretty much nailed my view - McCarthy is Jones, V2, with a better arm and a little more athletic.
I like the better arm and the athleticism. But those attributes wouldn't compel me to invest a day one pick on him because they aren't elite level. DJ Mac screams project that's going to require a lot of work and remodeling.
He has a very long throwing motion, and he looks like he has a tendency to lock in on his initial read quite a bit. Maybe that's just the design of the Michigan passing game, but that should be in everyone's concern column.
Count me in with the crowd who thinks he should stay in Ann Arbor.
OK bunny, unless you are a HOF quarterback drafted before or during the first Obama administration, you must be able to make plays with your legs.
Mobility is very helpful in general.
Pocket presence/mobility is really the key. Then it would be nice to be able to avoid rushers and buy time on a roll out to make throws.
Being unable to do that means you have to do that much more with anticipation throwing and pure arm talent. If the defense wins schematically on a play or your OL is struggling, then you see where this becomes an issue.
Lamar Jackson type mobility becomes a double edged sword, because on one hand it can be very tough for a defense to deal with, but on the other hand if you can deal with it, your QB is more limited usually.
Mobile QBs (almost***) always have some pocket skill taken away to some extent. There's almost no exception, because when you've been the best athlete at QB from age 5 to 22, it's super hard not to turn off that crutch. ***(Steve Young is the exception to the rule)
When people say that Burrow is a better pocket QB than Mahomes and Allen, it's hard to debate it because they're that much more mobile than him and he's still on that level of elite play.
Marino is the greatest pocket passer of all time, without a doubt, when you factor not only the great arm and release but the total lack of mobility throughout his career.
I have actually come away with more respect for him the last few weeks...
For those of you that don't know I'm a big Michigan fan and follow them throughout the year. I have been very critical of him all year, but the last few weeks he looked much better to me as the stage got bigger. You have to remember a few things; he was banged up towards the end of the year, he's young (21), outside of the TE's they don't have any dynamic receiver was the slot guy in Wilson and the big TE Loveland.
I have actually come away with more respect for him the last few weeks...
For those of you that don't know I'm a big Michigan fan and follow them throughout the year. I have been very critical of him all year, but the last few weeks he looked much better to me as the stage got bigger. You have to remember a few things; he was banged up towards the end of the year, he's young (21), outside of the TE's they don't have any dynamic receiver was the slot guy in Wilson and the big TE Loveland.
I have actually come away with more respect for him the last few weeks...
For those of you that don't know I'm a big Michigan fan and follow them throughout the year. I have been very critical of him all year, but the last few weeks he looked much better to me as the stage got bigger. You have to remember a few things; he was banged up towards the end of the year, he's young (21), outside of the TE's they don't have any dynamic receiver was the slot guy in Wilson and the big TE Loveland.
Do you see him as a first rounder?
That's largely been the debate recently?
Is he a first rounder? No. Will someone like something about him and take him to get the extra year? I wouldnt count that out either.
Not saying he is Lamar cause he is not, but I can see someone back into the first round between 26-32 and taking him. Just the way the NFL works.
RE: RE: RE: McCarthy is getting bashed for last night
...was not Penix play - which was average - but him getting banged up......
That sort of pressure/hitting is what he'll see every NFL game.
His medicals are a big red flag and I'd also say I'd be concerned with normal durability.
The other things was his mechanics/footwork - which were harped on by some (not me) - showed up last night when under pressure.
I'll admit he's unorthodox which is ok under good circumstances - but when there's not a clean pocket these mechanical issues really stand out.
Agree across the board.
Look, he sling it. As in REALLY sling it. But he's pretty much had the perfect situation this year: Three fantastic WR's, a fantastic RB and an OL that was ranked #1 in the country. He had enough time in the pocket to go through 20 reads if he wanted to - however, his WR's were so dynamic he often didn't need to make more than 1 or 2 to find the open guy.
Last night was the best D he's faced all season, and it showed - his awful footwork was on display, as was his skittishness and bad throws due to be being pressured so much. Last night was much more of an example of what he will face in the NFL - (probably) not as much talent at WR, an OL that won't protect him nearly as well as in college, and defensive coordinators who know how to scheme pressure.
And then there is the injury history - it is legitimately scary and should be a pretty big flag to any team looking to draft him - 2 ACL's a surgically repaired shoulder? Yikes. Even last night, he was clearly in pain towards the end - but he didn't really get hit all that hard. Yes he was pressured a lot, but got sacked only once. He's not a hugely mobile guy and can't escape the pocket like the "big 3' QB's. Heck, even Nix and McCarthy have better escpability/scramble skills than he does.
Of course, last night shouldn't be the final grade on him; his body of work over the last two years should be taken into account. The footwork can be corrected, and I'm sure he will eventually figure out the speed of the NFL game. But he'll need to be drafted by a team who has at least some pieces in place on O in order for him to be successful (at least in the beginning).
You can't teach arm talent, of course, But buyer beware on him. Especially on the health front.
I have actually come away with more respect for him the last few weeks...
For those of you that don't know I'm a big Michigan fan and follow them throughout the year. I have been very critical of him all year, but the last few weeks he looked much better to me as the stage got bigger. You have to remember a few things; he was banged up towards the end of the year, he's young (21), outside of the TE's they don't have any dynamic receiver was the slot guy in Wilson and the big TE Loveland.
Do you see him as a first rounder?
That's largely been the debate recently?
I see him as another Daniel Jones type to be honest.
Look, you never know how these guys translate to the NFL but I don't see him as a pure passer type. Pocket or on the run.
Looks more like an athlete and backup type of QB.
His upside: maybe resemble his HC - Harbaugh himself - who was sort of a grinder who had some success as a starter at the NFL level.
I have actually come away with more respect for him the last few weeks...
For those of you that don't know I'm a big Michigan fan and follow them throughout the year. I have been very critical of him all year, but the last few weeks he looked much better to me as the stage got bigger. You have to remember a few things; he was banged up towards the end of the year, he's young (21), outside of the TE's they don't have any dynamic receiver was the slot guy in Wilson and the big TE Loveland.
Do you see him as a first rounder?
That's largely been the debate recently?
My untrained eye...No. However, QB's always go higher than they should, and he is a hard QB to judge. I'm more curious what the pro scouts and teams think. With all that being said he is getting flamed, and people are saying 2nd and 3rd round. I think that is an extreme in the other direction.
RE: RE: RE: McCarthy is getting bashed for last night
I have actually come away with more respect for him the last few weeks...
For those of you that don't know I'm a big Michigan fan and follow them throughout the year. I have been very critical of him all year, but the last few weeks he looked much better to me as the stage got bigger. You have to remember a few things; he was banged up towards the end of the year, he's young (21), outside of the TE's they don't have any dynamic receiver was the slot guy in Wilson and the big TE Loveland.
Do you see him as a first rounder?
That's largely been the debate recently?
I see him as another Daniel Jones type to be honest.
Look, you never know how these guys translate to the NFL but I don't see him as a pure passer type. Pocket or on the run.
Looks more like an athlete and backup type of QB.
His upside: maybe resemble his HC - Harbaugh himself - who was sort of a grinder who had some success as a starter at the NFL level.
When it comes to the NFL, it's all about how the read the defense, react to it and how they respond to pressure on and off the field. That is the unknown about playing QB in the NFL. The problem with the Jones comparison is it's a bit lazy. Jones issues aren't physical it's mental.
RE: RE: RE: RE: McCarthy is getting bashed for last night
I see him as another Daniel Jones type to be honest.
Look, you never know how these guys translate to the NFL but I don't see him as a pure passer type. Pocket or on the run.
Looks more like an athlete and backup type of QB.
His upside: maybe resemble his HC - Harbaugh himself - who was sort of a grinder who had some success as a starter at the NFL level.
Totally agree, especially the comp.
It's funny, I was watching Rich Eisen today and he made the same comparison. For those of you that don't know, Eisen is a UM alum. He said today that McCarthy reminds him of Harbaugh who despite his physical limitations had a lot of success in the NFL.
Consensus is Dawgs are number one.
Ton of uncertainty about Michigan because of Harbaugh.
Bama. Oregon. Texas. Ohio State all in top 6 or 7.
Notre Dame seemed to be hovering around 10 or so.
But their three best players on D are all back next year: Johnson, Graham & Grant.
McGregor coming back would be huge. Plus with Goode, Benny, Moore and Stewart - there DL will be better next year. Sabb will replace Moore. All comes down to what Colson does - if he comes back - their D could be better next year.
I respect if you liked who won, but the game itself had long stretches of boringness.
It was exciting at the end. But not a great game.
I would say there are probably up to 15 prospects - combined - that will be drafted.
Or does he leave enough question marks and hear his name on Day 2.
Outdoors like the Rose Bowl is where it's at...
that does suck for you but kickoff is in 30 minutes
Outdoors like the Rose Bowl is where it's at...
this game would have been fucking glorious at the Rose Bowl.
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A lot of us in PST will be at work at 4:30pm
that does suck for you but kickoff is in 30 minutes
Hopefully a very long national anthem 🙏🤞
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on turf.
Outdoors like the Rose Bowl is where it's at...
this game would have been fucking glorious at the Rose Bowl.
This
Sanristil - fixes the hole at slot
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not Penix we should be watching but Odunze.
Sanristil - fixes the hole at slot
Wan'Dale Robinson is the starter in the slot.
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In comment 16354390 Eric from BBI said:
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not Penix we should be watching but Odunze.
Sanristil - fixes the hole at slot
Wan'Dale Robinson is the starter in the slot.
Slot corner
Agreed. But they have the replay issue pretty well figured out vis-a-vis the NFL.
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player needs to come off field if his helmet comes off.
Agreed. But they have the replay issue pretty well figured out vis-a-vis the NFL.
Replay, yep..
That doesn’t work when you are beaten at the LOS
Yep. Make McCarthy beat you.
Agreed.
He’s not really part of his game - he does it as a last resort.
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Penix...?
He’s not really part of his game - he does it as a last resort.
It’s not…
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Penix...?
He’s not really part of his game - he does it as a last resort.
I get it. But it's going to be there. Might as well exploit it a few times...
Yes.
Yep. They clearly do not want to get beat deep.
Early, but Penix doesn't look as good as last week. He should settle down next series.
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In comment 16354557 bw in dc said:
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Penix...?
He’s not really part of his game - he does it as a last resort.
I get it. But it's going to be there. Might as well exploit it a few times...
Agree. But he just doesn’t do it much. 32 carries all season
Looked like an option route where he either breaks inside or outside. That's where those types of throws come up on NFL interviews and asks McCarthy about the route. If it's an option route then it's acceptable, if not then that's a negative against him.
Linebackers are leaving their gaps, too. No discipline
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Another big run!!
Looked like an option route where he either breaks inside or outside. That's where those types of throws come up on NFL interviews and asks McCarthy about the route. If it's an option route then it's acceptable, if not then that's a negative against him.
Morgan is a freshman WR. He may have gone to the wrong spot there.
They’ve been pretty bad all season (i think they were ranked #90?)
Pass D is much better…
Sanristil - who I wouldn’t mind as a slot corner on the Giants next year
They don’t have one.
I wouldn’t throw another ball if they go up 21-3
2) play conservatively & avoid turning the ball over on offense
3) rely on your run game to absolutely crush the spirit of the Washington D
I just can’t imagine they expected their game plan to work this well this quickly
2) play conservatively & avoid turning the ball over on offense
3) rely on your run game to absolutely crush the spirit of the Washington D
I just can’t imagine they expected their game plan to work this well this quickly
Excellent analysis.
Wind up is too big.
Was a walk in touchdown
Agreed. That waa a walk in TD and he missed it.
LOL - he isn’t defined by one game. Look at the entire body of work, for goodness sake
If he was, he would be #1 pick based on the last game….
Yea I thought he should've kept moving towards the side line.
He doesn't usually miss those. Critical mistake.
That was 0% on Odunze. The guy is 6’4”, Penix could have thrown that anywhere but where he did and it was an easy completion
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Trust, but verify passer. Tough to live that way.
Wind up is too big.
Agree. He is a project.
Penix is looking like the moment is too big. That 4th down throw is one he usually hits in his sleep. That was a costly mistake.
Was thinking the same thing. Penix tried to lead him to the outside, no idea why he turned inside towards the safety
Every.
Single.
Year.
And it’s only gonna get worse in the NIL era.
The South and the Midwest can keep it along with their NASCAR and their hunting.
The ball was thrown to his inside shoulder. That’s a walk in touchdown if thrown correctly.
He looks fine to me. No happy feet and he's keeping his eyes downfield.
The way he and the coach were talking to Odzune, he broke the wrong way. He should have gone outside, away from the safety.
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uncomfortable back there.
He looks fine to me. No happy feet and he's keeping his eyes downfield.
Except for the two throws to his best player that should have been touchdowns, yes he looks fine
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The ball was thrown to his inside shoulder. That’s a walk in touchdown if thrown correctly.
Or Penix was throwing it away from the defender and Odunze went toward the post.
He put the ball in Loveland’s hands and he didn’t complete the play. That’s not on McCarthy
Except for the two throws to his best player that should have been touchdowns, yes he looks fine
I'm talking about his pocket demeanor. Try to keep up.
The bump affecte him
☝️
LOL
LOL.
He got pancaked......LOL
Tough night thus far.
I have zero doubt the OL would be fixed. ;)
+1. LOL
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In comment 16354713 Manhattan said:
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.
The ball was thrown to his inside shoulder. That’s a walk in touchdown if thrown correctly.
Or Penix was throwing it away from the defender and Odunze went toward the post.
Odunze was running up the field, not a post towards the safety. Penix throws that ball up the field and it’s a touchdown.
The two plays with Orji...
I have zero doubt the OL would be fixed. ;)
I’m pretty sure John Mara is not bringing in John Harbaugh.
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In comment 16354735 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 16354713 Manhattan said:
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.
The ball was thrown to his inside shoulder. That’s a walk in touchdown if thrown correctly.
Or Penix was throwing it away from the defender and Odunze went toward the post.
Odunze was running up the field, not a post towards the safety. Penix throws that ball up the field and it’s a touchdown.
Watch it again, he was running a corner route but slowed down and ran vertically because he sees the open field. Miscommunication
I’m pretty sure John Mara is not bringing in John Harbaugh.
He can bring in Jim. ;)
It was a good decision - dumb play call
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I’m pretty sure John Mara is not bringing in John Harbaugh.
He can bring in Jim. ;)
HA. Too many Jims and Johns. Obviously I meant Jim Harbaugh.
Nice quick release too. Got off throw in the flat, quickly flipped his eyes back to the middle of the field, and lighting quick release.
They were blowing them off the LOS. It's a defensible call.
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Harbaugh made the mistake of going for on fourth and three and turn the ball over. Now Washington is back in the game.
They were blowing them off the LOS. It's a defensible call.
The decision was fine. The play call was dumb
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angle Penix used there.
Nice quick release too. Got off throw in the flat, quickly flipped his eyes back to the middle of the field, and lighting quick release.
Yes. The move to the next read was impressive.
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Harbaugh made the mistake of going for on fourth and three and turn the ball over. Now Washington is back in the game.
They were blowing them off the LOS. It's a defensible call.
A run was a defensible call. Why throw?
I just don't see it either. He's young, maybe he develops. Seems like a project.
And Odounze
He could be a great target for the Passing Paisano.
Link - ( New Window )
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you guys are kidding about looking at McCarthy because he sucks
I just don't see it either. He's young, maybe he develops. Seems like a project.
He should stay in school another year. If the Giants took him in the first three rounds that would be really disappointing.
Agree. And I really want to see something out of him to give the Giants more options. I just don’t see it.
Daniel Jones Mccarthy
Michigan has been a second half team for most of the past two seasons.
Michigan has been a outstanding second half team when I have seen them.
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you guys are kidding about looking at McCarthy because he sucks
I just don't see it either. He's young, maybe he develops. Seems like a project.
Agree 100%
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but I see nothing high level with DJ McCarthy.
Daniel Jones Mccarthy
✔️
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In comment 16354829 bw in dc said:
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but I see nothing high level with DJ McCarthy.
Daniel Jones Mccarthy
✔️
Truest post in the history of BBI
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.
Best thing for him may be for Michigan to lose this game. He needs to come back and develop. He simply is too green
It probably depends on what draft grade he gets.
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Is going to make great adjustments offensively, which could change the game. Harbaugh should never have gone for it on.4th and 3. Now it’s a one score game.
Michigan has been a second half team for most of the past two seasons.
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In comment 16354835 DonnieD89 said:
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Is going to make great adjustments offensively, which could change the game. Harbaugh should never have gone for it on.4th and 3. Now it’s a one score game.
Michigan has been a second half team for most of the past two seasons.
All they have to do is stop trying to give McCarthy tape for the scouts and focus on winning by getting back to the run game. No reason to abandon it the way they did.
Or use JJ on the option.
An keep Orji off the field...
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When McCarthy hands off and gets out of the way. No reason to involve him.
An keep Orji off the field...
Aw c’mon. Everyone can use a little more Orji in their evening.
That's how UM beat Penn State. In the second half, the best hand-offer in the country kept feeding his backs and they won going away. Never passed in the second half.
It was the best half of handing-off I've ever seen...
Or a pick
He did get stepped on as he threw
The Dig was open
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by Penix.
He did get stepped on as he threw
And the pass got tipped. Just one of those nights thus far for UDub.
Doing a hell of job being their own worst enemy, especially on O.
They can have 11 in the box and no one guarding WRs and their OC will call a run play. Guy is awful.
McCarthy obviously not NFL material...cannot convert a 3rd down.
Just stopped running WTH?
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has finally realized that they need to stack the box to stop Michigan's run game and make McCarthy beat them through the air.
McCarthy obviously not NFL material...cannot convert a 3rd down.
Well it’s tough to convert when all you do is run lol
Forward pass.
He is not having a good game at all. All his completions are short throws. Not nearly as good as last week.
It's egregious all over the Michigan back end.
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.
He is not having a good game at all. All his completions are short throws. Not nearly as good as last week.
His receivers are being held everywhere and they're losing their battles.
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.
He is not having a good game at all. All his completions are short throws. Not nearly as good as last week.
Michigan is dictating the passing game.
If would be good to under center and try some play-action, but I don't know if that's a feature in the UDub O.
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.
He is not having a good game at all. All his completions are short throws. Not nearly as good as last week.
It’s one game (not even yet). Even consensus #1 pick Caleb Williams has had some real rough games
This is the worst coach I think I’ve ever seen.
I say it here and it happens there.
😉
DJ McCarthy
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In comment 16354921 gtt350 said:
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.
He is not having a good game at all. All his completions are short throws. Not nearly as good as last week.
His receivers are being held everywhere and they're losing their battles.
Just wait until he faces an NFL rush with a less than stellar OL
Harbaugh has to take over or else it could be a bad loss.
DJ McCarthy
I see what you did there 😂
Harbaugh has to take over or else it could be a bad loss.
Trust issue?
These play calls are Harbaugh correctly acknowledging that McCarthy is very limited as a QB.
These play calls are Harbaugh correctly acknowledging that McCarthy is very limited as a QB.
No - this is what they have been doing all year. Has nothing to do with McCarthy. Has to do with a bad play caller trying not to lose.
They trusted M Cathy against Bama. This OC is just really that bad.
He’s facing an NFL quality defense
Pressing. You can tell Penix is dying to make a big play. And when something big is there, he been air-mailing the throw.
Yes it was. That call was missed.
I’ve been telling people all year. Sherrone Moore is a god awful OC. You don’t have a guy who is being talked about being drafted in round 1-2 as a guy your afraid to throw the ball.
You have a young OC who coaches scare. He’s terrible.
Second round sure but no way at 6
Second round sure but no way at 6
Why would you want to draft him in the 2nd round if you think he isn’t good?
Second round sure but no way at 6
Both of these QBs making a huge statement that they can’t play well under pressure.
It seems that way.
Second round sure but no way at 6
Can't look at one game in a vacuum. But he has been off tonight. The entire offense is out of sync. That's what big game pressure does...
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doesn't trust McCarthy to throw the ball, not unless it's something extremely simple. Those runs on first and second down when they were backed up inside their 10 are proof, and were very similar to what Kafka did with Barkley this year because our QB play was so poor.
These play calls are Harbaugh correctly acknowledging that McCarthy is very limited as a QB.
No - this is what they have been doing all year. Has nothing to do with McCarthy. Has to do with a bad play caller trying not to lose.
They trusted M Cathy against Bama. This OC is just really that bad.
I agree the play caller is bad, but they don't trust McCarthy. He didn't throw a single pass in the second half against Penn State, and their passing game tonight is basically designed to just get him simple throws. They're trying to win with the running game and defense.
But let's see what they let him do on this drive.
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Isn’t good. I’ve watched him a few times this year and I just don’t see it with him. Isn’t good when pressured and he misses too many throws for my liking.
Second round sure but no way at 6
Can't look at one game in a vacuum. But he has been off tonight. The entire offense is out of sync. That's what big game pressure does...
Or he is not a big game QB
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Isn’t good. I’ve watched him a few times this year and I just don’t see it with him. Isn’t good when pressured and he misses too many throws for my liking.
Second round sure but no way at 6
Why would you want to draft him in the 2nd round if you think he isn’t good?
Agreed. This has just turned into bad offense by both teams.
I’ve tried so hard to forget that.
Think the vacuum is much higher on Penix. Neither looks good, but Penix is better.
Michigan offense just blows at this point and if Washington ties this - I think they’ll eventually win.
LOL.
Penix is not playing well tonight, but he has some skills you can’t coach.
McCarthy runs fast. And according to Holly Rowe, has the best mental health and mental health tools of anyone. I have no idea how she evaluated that, but she sure sounded sure of it.
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Has their 8th chance to tie this game.
LOL.
It’s like no one wants to win.
Michigan offense just blows at this point and if Washington ties this - I think they’ll eventually win.
Agreed.
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recievers are dropping balls and/or being held
Penix is not playing well tonight, but he has some skills you can’t coach.
McCarthy runs fast. And according to Holly Rowe, has the best mental health and mental health tools of anyone. I have no idea how she evaluated that, but she sure sounded sure of it.
Nothing more useless than sideline reporters...
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this DJ McCarthy blow-a-thon is so annoying...
Think the vacuum is much higher on Penix. Neither looks good, but Penix is better.
Neither of these QBs are day one. Penix at least has a plus arm. But he's too one-dimensional.
DJ Mac should re-sign his lease for his off-campus apartment.
we play it in my house every Saturday to remind us that it's college Game Day
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but it’s a weird choice for a football telecast.
we play it in my house every Saturday to remind us that it's college Game Day
I also like that ESPN is now using the Stones new song Angry during college football telecasts.
And the refs are letting them get away with a ton...
Ha - yeah Penix would have been sacked without the hold. Grabs with the left, then throws him down with the right. It doesn't get much easier than that. I saw that before the ball was thrown.
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all they’ve let Michigan get away with in the secondary
Ha - yeah Penix would have been sacked without the hold. Grabs with the left, then throws him down with the right. It doesn't get much easier than that. I saw that before the ball was thrown.
He very clearly tripped
Link - ( New Window )
And the refs are letting them get away with a ton...
Maybe a couple, but we don't see what Washington is doing. As long as it is both ways.
JJ looks meh.
Penix is missing receivers
Orji top notch.
If we draft him we have to hire that “psychologist” too right
Johnson is a true sophomore.
Mason Graham also. Both should be round 1 picks.
They’re not, FSU would’ve beaten either.
Pretty sure Odunze will go Day 1.
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all they’ve let Michigan get away with in the secondary
Ha - yeah Penix would have been sacked without the hold. Grabs with the left, then throws him down with the right. It doesn't get much easier than that. I saw that before the ball was thrown.
Not the point. I think it was holding, but they've not flagged UM for more egregious grabs on both sides.
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But now that I've learned that he brushes his teeth with his left hand to rewire his neural pathways, I can't stand him.
If we draft him we have to hire that “psychologist” too right
Seems a bit unwired. Scratch him of the list.
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The Michigan CB looks very good. But lots of warts on others.
Johnson is a true sophomore.
Mason Graham also. Both should be round 1 picks.
I meant in April.
He replaced McDonald who replaced Wink with Baltimore. Huge upgrade.
If Harbaugh leaves - Minter is going with him.
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In comment 16355045 ThomasG said:
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The Michigan CB looks very good. But lots of warts on others.
Johnson is a true sophomore.
Mason Graham also. Both should be round 1 picks.
I meant in April.
Nobody on Michigan. Keegan, Corum, sanistril, Jenkins, Colson are all round 2-4 picks
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D is the key to this game. They are fast and attacking. Very impressive.
And the refs are letting them get away with a ton...
Maybe a couple, but we don't see what Washington is doing. As long as it is both ways.
I've been doing some re-winding and the Michigan back seven are being very physical past five yards. And if they aren't going to call it, may as well stay with it, right?
He's been off. But you can see the talent
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The Michigan CB looks very good. But lots of warts on others.
Pretty sure Odunze will go Day 1.
Yes. But he should show more. This is the game to do it and times a wasting.
I go Nabers before him.
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It's hard to believe these are the 2 best teams.
They’re not, FSU would’ve beaten either.
Highly doubt that.
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In comment 16355048 widmerseyebrow said:
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But now that I've learned that he brushes his teeth with his left hand to rewire his neural pathways, I can't stand him.
If we draft him we have to hire that “psychologist” too right
Seems a bit unwired. Scratch him of the list.
Yeah I hope he is not on the Giants draft board, Betweent eh labored mechanics, poor accuracy, look at me theatrics of meditating on the field, and the “we only cheated because Ohio State did first” - this guy screams “not ready for NFL”
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In comment 16355037 Strahan91 said:
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all they’ve let Michigan get away with in the secondary
Ha - yeah Penix would have been sacked without the hold. Grabs with the left, then throws him down with the right. It doesn't get much easier than that. I saw that before the ball was thrown.
Not the point. I think it was holding, but they've not flagged UM for more egregious grabs on both sides.
What could be more eggregious than that? Herbstreit calling every tug a hold doesn't make it so. Yes there have been a couple that could have been called, I agree.
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In comment 16355045 ThomasG said:
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The Michigan CB looks very good. But lots of warts on others.
Pretty sure Odunze will go Day 1.
Yes. But he should show more. This is the game to do it and times a wasting.
I go Nabers before him.
I’m getting good at this.
Giants or Washington
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In comment 16355044 section125 said:
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In comment 16355037 Strahan91 said:
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all they’ve let Michigan get away with in the secondary
Ha - yeah Penix would have been sacked without the hold. Grabs with the left, then throws him down with the right. It doesn't get much easier than that. I saw that before the ball was thrown.
Not the point. I think it was holding, but they've not flagged UM for more egregious grabs on both sides.
What could be more eggregious than that? Herbstreit calling every tug a hold doesn't make it so. Yes there have been a couple that could have been called, I agree.
Herbstreit seems to be going for UW. The are showing replay of ever contested UW pass, but none of UM's?
Giants or Washington
Relative to level? Giants by far.
reminds me a lot of Mike Evans.
Anybody else see the similarities?
Giants or Washington
Washington’s OL won the Joe Moore award for best OL in the nation this year.
What could be more eggregious than that? Herbstreit calling every tug a hold doesn't make it so. Yes there have been a couple that could have been called, I agree.
Herbstreit seems to be going for UW. The are showing replay of ever contested UW pass, but none of UM's?
exactly
I wouldn’t pick McCarthy until Day 3
reminds me a lot of Mike Evans.
Anybody else see the similarities?
Cris Carter...to me.
Good eyesight by officials in not.
Say again??
What an absolute shitty ass game by him.
Good eyesight by officials in not.
What are you talking about? It was PI on Michigan and holding on Rosengarten...
reminds me a lot of Mike Evans.
Anybody else see the similarities?
I’ll take Evans
The Washington OL has been abused by the Michigan DL all night.
They can get away with a QB who just hands off the ball
And lousy QB play.
He's been bad, no doubt
Michigan’s defense is really good. They made Penix uncomfortable all night.
Too one dimensional. Not enough of a threat with his mobility.
I contend that's a must-have at the next level...
I mean he was lights out for 2 years but hasn't played a defense like Michigan.
Jones is a better runner. Penix does everything else better.
I mean he was lights out for 2 years but hasn't played a defense like Michigan.
BBI overrated him. He’s a second round pick but you can see how many holes he truly has.
What an absolute shitty ass game by him.
Don't forget about the false starts after getting some positive plays
Michigan’s defense is really good. They made Penix uncomfortable all night.
If you let him sit in the pocket he will kill you. Obviously he looses a lot when he has to move. In the NFL you have to move
And we’d be right at home watching him as the Giants QB.
Weak year. Good night.
Michael Pratt.
Cam Ward.
Spencer Rattler.
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I believe the quote the other day was “Penix does everything better than Daniel Jones”
Jones is a better runner. Penix does everything else better.
No
Michael Pratt.
Cam Ward.
Spencer Rattler.
Cam Ward is a really interesting prospect.
Michael Pratt.
Cam Ward.
Spencer Rattler.
If we can't get Williams or Daniels, then I really like Nix in the 2nd rd. Not a fan on Maye
Michael Pratt.
Cam Ward.
Spencer Rattler.
One edit, but good call, nonetheless.
Williams
Maye
Daniels
Maye or Williams
I mean he was lights out for 2 years but hasn't played a defense like Michigan.
Probably not much. He more so had an opportunity to really improve his stock tonight and didn’t. Don’t think it changes much in the other direction and shouldn’t. Michigan is the best defense in the country. Caleb was awful against ND, Maye had some rough games, etc. Changes fan perception though as most people didn’t watch those games but watched tonight
A preview of what will happen in the NFL
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is no reason to draft McCarthy or massively overdraft Nix at #6. Three QBs the Giants should consider starting in the third round are:
Michael Pratt.
Cam Ward.
Spencer Rattler.
One edit, but good call, nonetheless.
HAHAHA. I admit I am higher on Rattler than most here.
That's cap
He had a shifty game. But you can't deny his talent
Michigan played 3/4 deep, taking away the deep ball. Smart
Coaches didn't adjust
The counter is to run the ball. But Wash running back has a sprained ankle so that takes that away
But, he has played bad.
And I'd still take him over DJ
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I believe the quote the other day was “Penix does everything better than Daniel Jones”
Jones is a better runner. Penix does everything else better.
Like Malik Willis did.
He’s a pocket passer who can throw bombs to wide open guys who will be playing on Sundays. But you need to do a lot more in thr NFL.
Let’s see who else is out there.
.
Hey I know we don’t always see eye to eye. But you and I were constants in college threads and I think we were pretty spot on with a lot of these QBs.
I enjoyed the back and forth. So thanks!
Then you don’t know what you’re watching. There’s plenty to criticize but an NFL quality arm? And you’re a big Jones supporter? Gimme a break
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In comment 16355121 ryanmkeane said:
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I believe the quote the other day was “Penix does everything better than Daniel Jones”
Jones is a better runner. Penix does everything else better.
Like Malik Willis did.
Huh?
Like I said, Daboll should call his agent...
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In comment 16355121 ryanmkeane said:
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I believe the quote the other day was “Penix does everything better than Daniel Jones”
Jones is a better runner. Penix does everything else better.
No
There is nobody on this board who is worse at evaluating QB play than you. Nobody. I will give you credit though - you will never, ever change a single thought you have, no matter what evidence is presented to you.
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Really made Penix look average tonight…his wr’s don’t help him much either
A preview of what will happen in the NFL
Congrats!
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In comment 16355138 AcidTest said:
.
Hey I know we don’t always see eye to eye. But you and I were constants in college threads and I think we were pretty spot on with a lot of these QBs.
I enjoyed the back and forth. So thanks!
I enjoy your comments as well. We should have a lot to talk about over the next few months.
Regards,
Jess Minter's Agent
Like I said, Daboll should call his agent...
If not him then someone on Baltimore’s staff
Really paid off getting UDub's signs tonight... ;)
It's so good for the sport for Michigan to be back in the mix at the top...
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
Michigan’s defense is really good. They made Penix uncomfortable all night.
Well, with the RB hurt they were one dimensional.
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
One game shouldn't define him. Maye was 16-36 with an Int against a crappy Clemson team. Does that define him?
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He was that unimpressive tonight.
Michigan’s defense is really good. They made Penix uncomfortable all night.
Well, with the RB hurt they were one dimensional.
They don't have more than one RB? Michigan had 3 or 4 used in the game. Not a good excuse, IMV.
Buh Buh Buh better then Jones amirite?!? Right?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
There is a lot of overreaction on this thread. Penix played poorly on the biggest stage and that means something. However, he is still the guy who lit up Texas seven days ago.
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
I mentioned earlier you can't look at one game in a vacuum.
But it is a knock on Penix that he's one dimensional. That lack of mobility makes it easier to defend him.
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
Penix’s limitations were on full display tonight. That has nothing to do with McCarthy
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
What does those 3 have to do with Penix sucking ass tonight? See what happens when he plays a real defense…
Pretty sure all 3 would have played better with the nations best WRs and best OL.
Did you see how many times Herbstreit highlighted all the missed throws and opportunities by him all night?
Penix was god awful.
It's so good for the sport for Michigan to be back in the mix at the top...
If he doesn’t stay then Moore is probably the HC next year, I think.
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In comment 16355122 Mike from Ohio said:
I guess not , but the PAC 12 is mostly a quick pass offense .
Not everyone can roll 2-3 backs with the same results.
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He was that unimpressive tonight.
Michigan’s defense is really good. They made Penix uncomfortable all night.
Well, with the RB hurt they were one dimensional.
They don't have more than one RB? Michigan had 3 or 4 used in the game. Not a good excuse, IMV.
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Can we kill Williams, Maye, and Daniels for not even sniffing this game?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
There is a lot of overreaction on this thread. Penix played poorly on the biggest stage and that means something. However, he is still the guy who lit up Texas seven days ago.
His weaknesses:
Poor mechanics
Poor footwork
Poor reading
Not good on intermediate routes
That was on full display tonight. People have been mentioning this all year about him but it was masked by playing horrific Pac 12 defenses.
If a bunch of guys on the board want penis it’s really not for us to judge. Not my cup of tea not that there’s anything wrong with that.
No it shouldn’t define him. But it’s good to see him deal with a real defense and faces pressure. Which didn’t happen all year.
He made some awful decisions and made some awful throws. It happens.
🤷♂️
Buh Buh Buh better then Jones amirite?!? Right?
Strange time to be talking up Daniel Jones. The guy has been a complete bust, but you need to shit on a college QB who played a bad game to feel better about him?
If Daniel Jones re-entered the 2024 draft, he would like be a Day 3 pick.
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Can we kill Williams, Maye, and Daniels for not even sniffing this game?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
There is a lot of overreaction on this thread. Penix played poorly on the biggest stage and that means something. However, he is still the guy who lit up Texas seven days ago.
The two best things I saw all season were Daniels against Florida and Penix against Texas. I agree that Penix had a tough night, but that doesn't change anything in my eyes.
Giants played themselves out of the top three guys and will either have to maneuver to try and get to top of draft, take Nix in early second round, or punt the QB decision another year.
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In comment 16355182 Go Terps said:
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Can we kill Williams, Maye, and Daniels for not even sniffing this game?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
There is a lot of overreaction on this thread. Penix played poorly on the biggest stage and that means something. However, he is still the guy who lit up Texas seven days ago.
His weaknesses:
Poor mechanics
Poor footwork
Poor reading
Not good on intermediate routes
That was on full display tonight. People have been mentioning this all year about him but it was masked by playing horrific Pac 12 defenses.
I am not a huge Penix guy, so not sure why this is directed at me, but yeah he is limited. He is also much better than McCarthy who you seem to fall all over.
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In comment 16355182 Go Terps said:
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Can we kill Williams, Maye, and Daniels for not even sniffing this game?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
There is a lot of overreaction on this thread. Penix played poorly on the biggest stage and that means something. However, he is still the guy who lit up Texas seven days ago.
The two best things I saw all season were Daniels against Florida and Penix against Texas. I agree that Penix had a tough night, but that doesn't change anything in my eyes.
Michigan gave a blueprint on how to beat him that NFL teams can copy
If a bunch of guys on the board want penis it’s really not for us to judge.
NTTAWWT
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In comment 16355182 Go Terps said:
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Can we kill Williams, Maye, and Daniels for not even sniffing this game?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
There is a lot of overreaction on this thread. Penix played poorly on the biggest stage and that means something. However, he is still the guy who lit up Texas seven days ago.
The two best things I saw all season were Daniels against Florida and Penix against Texas. I agree that Penix had a tough night, but that doesn't change anything in my eyes.
He was great vs Texas and terrible tonight. Didn't like the way he played but had several drops.
The two best things I saw all season were Daniels against Florida and Penix against Texas. I agree that Penix had a tough night, but that doesn't change anything in my eyes.
Why would you ever admit you’re wrong? Lol
Not really the game we needed if you wanted more first round QBs IMO.
Johnson, Grant, Loveland, and Graham will all be top 50 picks if not first rounders in 2025.
A few of us have too. Some posters see 1-2 games and fancy stats and jumped all over him.
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Top 5 pick in 2025 draft. What a beast
Johnson, Grant, Loveland, and Graham will all be top 50 picks if not first rounders in 2025.
Yep.
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In comment 16355190 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 16355182 Go Terps said:
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Can we kill Williams, Maye, and Daniels for not even sniffing this game?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
There is a lot of overreaction on this thread. Penix played poorly on the biggest stage and that means something. However, he is still the guy who lit up Texas seven days ago.
The two best things I saw all season were Daniels against Florida and Penix against Texas. I agree that Penix had a tough night, but that doesn't change anything in my eyes.
Michigan gave a blueprint on how to beat him that NFL teams can copy
Yep. He had a horrific game against the best defense he faced, but because terps has picked his “guy”, he’s going to ignore objective evidence because it fucks up his narrative.
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The two best things I saw all season were Daniels against Florida and Penix against Texas. I agree that Penix had a tough night, but that doesn't change anything in my eyes.
Why would you ever admit you’re wrong? Lol
Nope. Never
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In comment 16355204 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16355190 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 16355182 Go Terps said:
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Can we kill Williams, Maye, and Daniels for not even sniffing this game?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
There is a lot of overreaction on this thread. Penix played poorly on the biggest stage and that means something. However, he is still the guy who lit up Texas seven days ago.
The two best things I saw all season were Daniels against Florida and Penix against Texas. I agree that Penix had a tough night, but that doesn't change anything in my eyes.
Michigan gave a blueprint on how to beat him that NFL teams can copy
Yep. He had a horrific game against the best defense he faced, but because terps has picked his “guy”, he’s going to ignore objective evidence because it fucks up his narrative.
Maybe Penix will be good when Malik Willis is a competent NFL QB
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In comment 16355204 Go Terps said:
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The two best things I saw all season were Daniels against Florida and Penix against Texas. I agree that Penix had a tough night, but that doesn't change anything in my eyes.
Why would you ever admit you’re wrong? Lol
Nope. Never
NEVER will he. He loves penix and even after a shit game in a big spot it’s oh I’m not wrong
No QB is evaluated on one game. Penix didn’t make a good case for himself tonight, but he didn’t just fall off a bunch of NFL boards tonight anymore than he climbed on them last weekend against Texas.
NFL talent evaluators are not drawing conclusions on any single game, good or bad.
No QB is evaluated on one game. Penix didn’t make a good case for himself tonight, but he didn’t just fall off a bunch of NFL boards tonight anymore than he climbed on them last weekend against Texas.
NFL talent evaluators are not drawing conclusions on any single game, good or bad.
Please quit making sense. Not for one second am I comparing Penix to Mahomes, but Mahomes a few years back really struggled in the SB against Tampa Bay. He and the Chiefs got rolled. Sometimes the other team is just better that night...
Maye or Williams
Daniels is better than both of them
That is not unusual. Almost every QB now barely gets the snap before 4 seconds on the clock - most near zero.
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
Of course. Your guy plays less than great so the excuses come. But, he would at least be fun to root for- your quote recently.
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In comment 16355204 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16355190 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 16355182 Go Terps said:
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Can we kill Williams, Maye, and Daniels for not even sniffing this game?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
There is a lot of overreaction on this thread. Penix played poorly on the biggest stage and that means something. However, he is still the guy who lit up Texas seven days ago.
The two best things I saw all season were Daniels against Florida and Penix against Texas. I agree that Penix had a tough night, but that doesn't change anything in my eyes.
Michigan gave a blueprint on how to beat him that NFL teams can copy
Yep. He had a horrific game against the best defense he faced, but because terps has picked his “guy”, he’s going to ignore objective evidence because it fucks up his narrative.
+1000
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In comment 16355209 RCPhoenix said:
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In comment 16355204 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16355190 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 16355182 Go Terps said:
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Can we kill Williams, Maye, and Daniels for not even sniffing this game?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
There is a lot of overreaction on this thread. Penix played poorly on the biggest stage and that means something. However, he is still the guy who lit up Texas seven days ago.
The two best things I saw all season were Daniels against Florida and Penix against Texas. I agree that Penix had a tough night, but that doesn't change anything in my eyes.
Michigan gave a blueprint on how to beat him that NFL teams can copy
Yep. He had a horrific game against the best defense he faced, but because terps has picked his “guy”, he’s going to ignore objective evidence because it fucks up his narrative.
Maybe Penix will be good when Malik Willis is a competent NFL QB
Ha ha, yep..
Playing poor (or great) in one game is not the determining factor, but rather when faced with as close to NFL conditions as Penix would get he folded like a lawn chair. He clearly didn’t look anywhere close to the top QB’s in the draft to justify taking him 6th overall as some on BBI have selected. Even though Michigan won, I still wouldn’t take JJ McCarthy that high as the DJ joke was accurate. This team won because of their Defense.
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NFL scouts have been saying that for awhile now
A few of us have too. Some posters see 1-2 games and fancy stats and jumped all over him.
One read QB huh?
Let's go back to the TD throw. His 1st read was Odunze. Odunze got held (flag thrown), penix pointed it out, then threw the TD to his 2nd read
But carry on...
The Giants are not.
Any questions?
I though McCarthy made some plays. You can see why he is being talked about as a 1st rounder but a lot to work on.
Tough night for Penix. Quite a few poor throws and panic syndrome in the pocket. Won't help being gimpy in the second half for some teams with his past injury history.
I though McCarthy made some plays. You can see why he is being talked about as a 1st rounder but a lot to work on.
I see it the complete other way. Last night was another example why DJ McCarthy should not be touched on day one or day two right now.
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Can we kill Williams, Maye, and Daniels for not even sniffing this game?
I guess McCarthy should be #1 overall.
One game shouldn't define him. Maye was 16-36 with an Int against a crappy Clemson team. Does that define him?
Interesting that in the one game where Williams faced real pressure (ND) he looked pretty average too. And Michigan's D is a little better than ND's.
Is there a reason you felt this needed to be said? Everyone on the planet knows there are no sure things in the draft. At ANY position.
That's true of any QB in any draft.
It's also true of any position in any draft.
Duh.
Interesting.
That’s the thing that worried me most about last night and Penix. There were numerous opportunities to take off. Gaping holes that he could have picked up huge yardage. And he absolutely refused to even consider it. I just kept imagining had that been Daniels, Maye or Williams they’d have had an enormous game on the ground o and Michigan would have had to account for it. Washington likely left a lot of points on the board because the QB doesn’t have the running game in his arsenal
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I though McCarthy made some plays. You can see why he is being talked about as a 1st rounder but a lot to work on.
I see it the complete other way. Last night was another example why DJ McCarthy should not be touched on day one or day two right now.
So you think he's similar to Jones? I don't know, JJ's arm seems stronger and he's probably more athletic.
I thought the past two games didn't change the needle much for him. The tying drive against Alabama probably helped him. I know Michigan doesn't ask much of him, but that's how Harbaugh has traditionally run his offense and he seems to rate McCarthy very highly. For a guy who turned Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick into viable NFL QBs, I don't take that very lightly.
Interesting.
It would be borderline criminal for a team to make a big commitment to an often injured quarterback, who really only had one solid season. Who had one good playoff game, and then in the next round got thoroughly exposed.
That would be fucking insane.
Interesting.
I though Penix's bad game against good competition was a different type of bad QB game than what Jones has put up recently.
Penix last night reminded me of a bad Eli game from his prime. A little skittish, sloppy footwork, and the aim just being off in general. But like Eli, I do value that Penix was still constantly trying to make plays in the intermediate and deep portions of the field, trying to throw into tight windows, and trying to put his recievers in 50/50 scenarios, even if he threw high every time.
Contrast that with what Jones does in overmatched scenarios going back to the Philly playoff game: either dump off the ball as fast as possible, run aimlessly, or take a sack. Like Sy said in the SF game review, he prefers to be "just there" if things are going wrong.
This is all moot however as I doubt Penix is on the Giants board considering that he's not the type of QB Daboll tends to work with and he also doesn't tick the traditional Giants QB boxes.
Interesting.
How many people changed their opinion of Williams after Notre Dame? Or to go back farther, Darnold after Ohio St. Trying to evaluated QBs who play in the Pac-12 is a very risky proposition.
And the Giants aren't the only team and fanbase guilty of this; see the Bears talking themselves into Fields after a couple of good games the end of this season.
These organizations would be better served utilizing this concept called statistics - both traditional and advanced - which provides you a sample size of data that you can benchmark against other QBs and the film you have. Crazy idea.
QB's absolutely need to be athletic enough to maneuver in the pocket.
QB's absolutely need to be athletic enough to maneuver in the pocket.
Stafford is a future Hall of Famer. Can we not compare Penix to an elite outlier? And he also maneuvers in the pocket extremely well. I didn’t see any of that from Penix last night. He just stood in the pocket and let the pressure come to him
QB's absolutely need to be athletic enough to maneuver in the pocket.
Stafford is a future Hall of Famer. Can we not compare Penix to an elite outlier? And he also maneuvers in the pocket extremely well. I didn’t see any of that from Penix last night. He just stood in the pocket and let the pressure come to him
So you think he's similar to Jones? I don't know, JJ's arm seems stronger and he's probably more athletic.
I thought the past two games didn't change the needle much for him. The tying drive against Alabama probably helped him. I know Michigan doesn't ask much of him, but that's how Harbaugh has traditionally run his offense and he seems to rate McCarthy very highly. For a guy who turned Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick into viable NFL QBs, I don't take that very lightly.
You pretty much nailed my view - McCarthy is Jones, V2, with a better arm and a little more athletic.
I like the better arm and the athleticism. But those attributes wouldn't compel me to invest a day one pick on him because they aren't elite level. DJ Mac screams project that's going to require a lot of work and remodeling.
He has a very long throwing motion, and he looks like he has a tendency to lock in on his initial read quite a bit. Maybe that's just the design of the Michigan passing game, but that should be in everyone's concern column.
Count me in with the crowd who thinks he should stay in Ann Arbor.
I don't think it is an obsession with DJ versus seeing some of the same flaws and trying not to overreact to Michigan winning the game
We're on the verge of playing an ordinary, over-paid QB for a sixth year.
What's your recommendation? Just gloss over that insanity?
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with Daniel Jones - its fucking scary.
We're on the verge of playing an ordinary, over-paid QB for a sixth year.
What's your recommendation? Just gloss over that insanity?
Talk about him in other threads? This thread has nothing to do with him.
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In comment 16355454 JT039 said:
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with Daniel Jones - its fucking scary.
We're on the verge of playing an ordinary, over-paid QB for a sixth year.
What's your recommendation? Just gloss over that insanity?
Talk about him in other threads? This thread has nothing to do with him.
Yes it does deal with him when people are hyping a QB who exhibits the same flaws that DJ has demonstrated
Yes it does deal with him when people are hyping a QB who exhibits the same flaws that DJ has demonstrated
by mocking him? Sure...
There have been a bunch of guys who have gone high who have not.
Mobility is very helpful in general.
Pocket presence/mobility is really the key. Then it would be nice to be able to avoid rushers and buy time on a roll out to make throws.
Being unable to do that means you have to do that much more with anticipation throwing and pure arm talent. If the defense wins schematically on a play or your OL is struggling, then you see where this becomes an issue.
Lamar Jackson type mobility becomes a double edged sword, because on one hand it can be very tough for a defense to deal with, but on the other hand if you can deal with it, your QB is more limited usually.
Mobile QBs (almost***) always have some pocket skill taken away to some extent. There's almost no exception, because when you've been the best athlete at QB from age 5 to 22, it's super hard not to turn off that crutch. ***(Steve Young is the exception to the rule)
When people say that Burrow is a better pocket QB than Mahomes and Allen, it's hard to debate it because they're that much more mobile than him and he's still on that level of elite play.
Marino is the greatest pocket passer of all time, without a doubt, when you factor not only the great arm and release but the total lack of mobility throughout his career.
That sort of pressure/hitting is what he'll see every NFL game.
His medicals are a big red flag and I'd also say I'd be concerned with normal durability.
The other things was his mechanics/footwork - which were harped on by some (not me) - showed up last night when under pressure.
I'll admit he's unorthodox which is ok under good circumstances - but when there's not a clean pocket these mechanical issues really stand out.
For those of you that don't know I'm a big Michigan fan and follow them throughout the year. I have been very critical of him all year, but the last few weeks he looked much better to me as the stage got bigger. You have to remember a few things; he was banged up towards the end of the year, he's young (21), outside of the TE's they don't have any dynamic receiver was the slot guy in Wilson and the big TE Loveland.
For those of you that don't know I'm a big Michigan fan and follow them throughout the year. I have been very critical of him all year, but the last few weeks he looked much better to me as the stage got bigger. You have to remember a few things; he was banged up towards the end of the year, he's young (21), outside of the TE's they don't have any dynamic receiver was the slot guy in Wilson and the big TE Loveland.
Do you see him as a first rounder?
That's largely been the debate recently?
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I have actually come away with more respect for him the last few weeks...
For those of you that don't know I'm a big Michigan fan and follow them throughout the year. I have been very critical of him all year, but the last few weeks he looked much better to me as the stage got bigger. You have to remember a few things; he was banged up towards the end of the year, he's young (21), outside of the TE's they don't have any dynamic receiver was the slot guy in Wilson and the big TE Loveland.
Do you see him as a first rounder?
That's largely been the debate recently?
Is he a first rounder? No. Will someone like something about him and take him to get the extra year? I wouldnt count that out either.
Not saying he is Lamar cause he is not, but I can see someone back into the first round between 26-32 and taking him. Just the way the NFL works.
Is he a first rounder? No. Will someone like something about him and take him to get the extra year? I wouldnt count that out either.
Not saying he is Lamar cause he is not, but I can see someone back into the first round between 26-32 and taking him. Just the way the NFL works.
The age idea is a good one if you believe that the risk is worth the reward. I just can't get there right now.
The only attribute I like about him right now is his turn of foot. He has a burst getting up field.
But there is a lot of fat to trim in the passing game.
That sort of pressure/hitting is what he'll see every NFL game.
His medicals are a big red flag and I'd also say I'd be concerned with normal durability.
The other things was his mechanics/footwork - which were harped on by some (not me) - showed up last night when under pressure.
I'll admit he's unorthodox which is ok under good circumstances - but when there's not a clean pocket these mechanical issues really stand out.
Agree across the board.
Look, he sling it. As in REALLY sling it. But he's pretty much had the perfect situation this year: Three fantastic WR's, a fantastic RB and an OL that was ranked #1 in the country. He had enough time in the pocket to go through 20 reads if he wanted to - however, his WR's were so dynamic he often didn't need to make more than 1 or 2 to find the open guy.
Last night was the best D he's faced all season, and it showed - his awful footwork was on display, as was his skittishness and bad throws due to be being pressured so much. Last night was much more of an example of what he will face in the NFL - (probably) not as much talent at WR, an OL that won't protect him nearly as well as in college, and defensive coordinators who know how to scheme pressure.
And then there is the injury history - it is legitimately scary and should be a pretty big flag to any team looking to draft him - 2 ACL's a surgically repaired shoulder? Yikes. Even last night, he was clearly in pain towards the end - but he didn't really get hit all that hard. Yes he was pressured a lot, but got sacked only once. He's not a hugely mobile guy and can't escape the pocket like the "big 3' QB's. Heck, even Nix and McCarthy have better escpability/scramble skills than he does.
Of course, last night shouldn't be the final grade on him; his body of work over the last two years should be taken into account. The footwork can be corrected, and I'm sure he will eventually figure out the speed of the NFL game. But he'll need to be drafted by a team who has at least some pieces in place on O in order for him to be successful (at least in the beginning).
You can't teach arm talent, of course, But buyer beware on him. Especially on the health front.
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I have actually come away with more respect for him the last few weeks...
For those of you that don't know I'm a big Michigan fan and follow them throughout the year. I have been very critical of him all year, but the last few weeks he looked much better to me as the stage got bigger. You have to remember a few things; he was banged up towards the end of the year, he's young (21), outside of the TE's they don't have any dynamic receiver was the slot guy in Wilson and the big TE Loveland.
Do you see him as a first rounder?
That's largely been the debate recently?
I see him as another Daniel Jones type to be honest.
Look, you never know how these guys translate to the NFL but I don't see him as a pure passer type. Pocket or on the run.
Looks more like an athlete and backup type of QB.
His upside: maybe resemble his HC - Harbaugh himself - who was sort of a grinder who had some success as a starter at the NFL level.
That is true every year, of every player coming out in the draft. Every single pick can be a bust.
I don't know why people keep posting this about QBs like it is unique.
I see him as another Daniel Jones type to be honest.
Look, you never know how these guys translate to the NFL but I don't see him as a pure passer type. Pocket or on the run.
Looks more like an athlete and backup type of QB.
His upside: maybe resemble his HC - Harbaugh himself - who was sort of a grinder who had some success as a starter at the NFL level.
Totally agree, especially the comp.
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I have actually come away with more respect for him the last few weeks...
For those of you that don't know I'm a big Michigan fan and follow them throughout the year. I have been very critical of him all year, but the last few weeks he looked much better to me as the stage got bigger. You have to remember a few things; he was banged up towards the end of the year, he's young (21), outside of the TE's they don't have any dynamic receiver was the slot guy in Wilson and the big TE Loveland.
Do you see him as a first rounder?
That's largely been the debate recently?
My untrained eye...No. However, QB's always go higher than they should, and he is a hard QB to judge. I'm more curious what the pro scouts and teams think. With all that being said he is getting flamed, and people are saying 2nd and 3rd round. I think that is an extreme in the other direction.
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In comment 16355974 JOrthman said:
Quote:
I have actually come away with more respect for him the last few weeks...
For those of you that don't know I'm a big Michigan fan and follow them throughout the year. I have been very critical of him all year, but the last few weeks he looked much better to me as the stage got bigger. You have to remember a few things; he was banged up towards the end of the year, he's young (21), outside of the TE's they don't have any dynamic receiver was the slot guy in Wilson and the big TE Loveland.
Do you see him as a first rounder?
That's largely been the debate recently?
I see him as another Daniel Jones type to be honest.
Look, you never know how these guys translate to the NFL but I don't see him as a pure passer type. Pocket or on the run.
Looks more like an athlete and backup type of QB.
His upside: maybe resemble his HC - Harbaugh himself - who was sort of a grinder who had some success as a starter at the NFL level.
When it comes to the NFL, it's all about how the read the defense, react to it and how they respond to pressure on and off the field. That is the unknown about playing QB in the NFL. The problem with the Jones comparison is it's a bit lazy. Jones issues aren't physical it's mental.
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I see him as another Daniel Jones type to be honest.
Look, you never know how these guys translate to the NFL but I don't see him as a pure passer type. Pocket or on the run.
Looks more like an athlete and backup type of QB.
His upside: maybe resemble his HC - Harbaugh himself - who was sort of a grinder who had some success as a starter at the NFL level.
Totally agree, especially the comp.
It's funny, I was watching Rich Eisen today and he made the same comparison. For those of you that don't know, Eisen is a UM alum. He said today that McCarthy reminds him of Harbaugh who despite his physical limitations had a lot of success in the NFL.
Consensus is Dawgs are number one.
Ton of uncertainty about Michigan because of Harbaugh.
Bama. Oregon. Texas. Ohio State all in top 6 or 7.
Notre Dame seemed to be hovering around 10 or so.
McGregor coming back would be huge. Plus with Goode, Benny, Moore and Stewart - there DL will be better next year. Sabb will replace Moore. All comes down to what Colson does - if he comes back - their D could be better next year.
Exciting season and year. Hoping Harbaugh stays.