Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
Meanwhile, the #Giants have not begun a search for a new defensive coordinator and don't plan to do so as of right now, sources say. They want Wink Martindale to be their DC unless and until he resigns. So the standoff continues.
if wink comes back ill eat my words and this will have been a colossal mess of stupidity, but until then i suspect this will go as long as wink is acting stupid. which may be a while since he's probably already sunk his prospects for most other jobs and as that reality dawns on him there may be more of the 'anger' and 'denial' stages.
if he hasnt agreed to a deal by the point where they need to act on their preferred replacement they will move on to re-assigning or suspending him, probably him with pay, sideline him for the year, and then hire someone else.
I understand what the Giants are doing here, but there are ways that Wink can string things along that could seriously handicap how the Giants move forward. Given that Wink’s Giants career is almost certainly over, they could miss out on the opportunity to interview the better DC candidates.
I guess make sure that Henderson and Patterson are resigned for next year, and one of them can become the DC if no better candidates are left, but yeah, what a shitshow.
I have to believe that not showing up for work (whether it's a team meeting, practice or even a game) would be something that voided Wink's contract, without further compensation.
Think about it. I doubt the team lawyers drew up a contract that would allow a coach to not quit, but then also not show up for team meetings... and expect to be compensated for the remaining year on his contract.
"They want Wink Martindale to be their DC unless and until he resigns."
+1
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but hang out in FL? I’m sure at some point he would be expected to show up for team meetings, and if he doesn’t, they can fire him for cause, but how long would that take?
I understand what the Giants are doing here, but there are ways that Wink can string things along that could seriously handicap how the Giants move forward. Given that Wink’s Giants career is almost certainly over, they could miss out on the opportunity to interview the better DC candidates.
I guess make sure that Henderson and Patterson are resigned for next year, and one of them can become the DC if no better candidates are left, but yeah, what a shitshow.
I have to believe that not showing up for work (whether it's a team meeting, practice or even a game) would be something that voided Wink's contract, without further compensation.
Think about it. I doubt the team lawyers drew up a contract that would allow a coach to not quit, but then also not show up for team meetings... and expect to be compensated for the remaining year on his contract.
every you said, except id imagine whatever option they choose involves them retaining his rights. so if he's not showing up to work id imagine they are within their rights to just suspend him if they cant fire him without letting him go to a divisional competitor.
I mentioned this yesterday, but it would seem that NYG are being careful to not create a "constructive discharge" scenario for Wink.
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Why can this franchise never just be fucking normal?
It might have something to do with NYC market and the media there. Just a hunch.
The NYC market isn't that unique, nor is the NYC sports media. The Giants have long been irrelevant to any other segment of the NYC media anyway.
This isn't about environmental factors, IMO. It's about Wink being a lunatic and the Giants being exceedingly deliberate in their response.
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Wink playing checkers, while the gmen playing chess here.
Wink marches out with his "24" clipboard, while Gmen drill down into the language of the contract
Very laughable.
They haven't pulled off a queen's gambit if they pay him most or all of his salary and he's the defensive coordinator of his hometown Bengals in two weeks.
I'm not calling a victory quite yet.
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You want this hot head to STILL be DC after all this?
I mentioned this yesterday, but it would seem that NYG are being careful to not create a "constructive discharge" scenario for Wink.
Wink got his stories out for a couple months painting Daboll as the bad guy. Planted leaks to try to force his firing so he can collect & choose his next job, and ding Daboll for fun. Giants kept quiet, Daboll included, through the season to try to at least keep it in house (arguing over pizza). Wink looked every bit the Buddy Ryan coaching tree to the end, with the juvenile "24 hour" stunt on his playcall sheet. He is daring the Giants to fire him.
So the Giants are now going on the offensive and calling his bluff.
However, the longer this drags out, it actually hurts both sides. This will end up a legal issue at some point if the Giants look to fill his position while he's still in it, which is why Garafolo was given this info. No one wants Wink back, especially Wink.
What is going to happen, IMO, Wink's agents and the Giants will finalize his exit package. He will get his money. He will not be allowed to coach in the NFC East unless it's for a HC job (good luck). Now, maybe they play hardball and tell him to sit on a beach in Florida in his compression sleeves all 2024, but I think that's part of the negotiation.
This is all public posturing to get to an agreed upon non-compete. Like I said, welcome to Corporate America.
HC who had a hard time managing a strong personality. I think he loses respect from some of the players over this and doubt they like how this is playing out.
He can overcome it but it is just another challenge to a growing list going into next season.
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In comment 16357354 I am Ninja said:
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Why can this franchise never just be fucking normal?
It might have something to do with NYC market and the media there. Just a hunch.
The NYC market isn't that unique, nor is the NYC sports media. The Giants have long been irrelevant to any other segment of the NYC media anyway.
This isn't about environmental factors, IMO. It's about Wink being a lunatic and the Giants being exceedingly deliberate in their response.
Deliberate would be firing him. If Wink is a lunatic and comes back to work, he's essentially called the Giants bluff. Maybe they are extremely confident that their position will ultimately be successful, but it still seems like an unnecessary risk.
Wink got his stories out for a couple months painting Daboll as the bad guy. Planted leaks to try to force his firing so he can collect & choose his next job, and ding Daboll for fun. Giants kept quiet, Daboll included, through the season to try to at least keep it in house (arguing over pizza). Wink looked every bit the Buddy Ryan coaching tree to the end, with the juvenile "24 hour" stunt on his playcall sheet. He is daring the Giants to fire him.
So the Giants are now going on the offensive and calling his bluff.
However, the longer this drags out, it actually hurts both sides. This will end up a legal issue at some point if the Giants look to fill his position while he's still in it, which is why Garafolo was given this info. No one wants Wink back, especially Wink.
What is going to happen, IMO, Wink's agents and the Giants will finalize his exit package. He will get his money. He will not be allowed to coach in the NFC East unless it's for a HC job (good luck). Now, maybe they play hardball and tell him to sit on a beach in Florida in his compression sleeves all 2024, but I think that's part of the negotiation.
This is all public posturing to get to an agreed upon non-compete. Like I said, welcome to Corporate America.
Whether WInk truly disobeyed Daboll in that Dallas game is probably the only question we should care about. Telling Daboll to fuck off behind closed doors? I want to tell Daboll to fuck off too after this mess of a season. Again, who cares. There shouldn't be any harmony right now.
Reminer, some of the best NY teams of all time were littered with dramatics in and out of the locker room. Winning is all that matters and there's little to no proof that drama or locker room tension impacts winning or losing. It's just noise.
I think Wink is average. I won't lose sleep if he's done here, but I couldn't give a shit less about this high school drama nonsense.
The Giants are just communicating that they have no plans to let him out of his contract. I don't think they are going to chain him to a desk and make him coach the defense.
If they did, it would all unfold on Peacock.
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exit package & non-compete negotiation that happens every day in corporate America that doesn't get the press views that you see because it's an NFL team.
Wink got his stories out for a couple months painting Daboll as the bad guy. Planted leaks to try to force his firing so he can collect & choose his next job, and ding Daboll for fun. Giants kept quiet, Daboll included, through the season to try to at least keep it in house (arguing over pizza). Wink looked every bit the Buddy Ryan coaching tree to the end, with the juvenile "24 hour" stunt on his playcall sheet. He is daring the Giants to fire him.
So the Giants are now going on the offensive and calling his bluff.
However, the longer this drags out, it actually hurts both sides. This will end up a legal issue at some point if the Giants look to fill his position while he's still in it, which is why Garafolo was given this info. No one wants Wink back, especially Wink.
What is going to happen, IMO, Wink's agents and the Giants will finalize his exit package. He will get his money. He will not be allowed to coach in the NFC East unless it's for a HC job (good luck). Now, maybe they play hardball and tell him to sit on a beach in Florida in his compression sleeves all 2024, but I think that's part of the negotiation.
This is all public posturing to get to an agreed upon non-compete. Like I said, welcome to Corporate America.
how can we be sure of the assumptions in your second paragraph?
I'd say Occam's razor, but to your point, we can't be sure unless Glazer reveals his source, which he won't and shouldn't, unless they ask to be revealed. But Art Stapleton has more or less come out and said as much that this was all either Wink directly or his camp. The sooner they move on from all this, the better. Daboll has to win in 2024 or he will be an OC somewhere else in 2025.
They can't interview replacements for a position that is currently filled and that they maintain they are happy with.
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exit package & non-compete negotiation that happens every day in corporate America that doesn't get the press views that you see because it's an NFL team.
Wink got his stories out for a couple months painting Daboll as the bad guy. Planted leaks to try to force his firing so he can collect & choose his next job, and ding Daboll for fun. Giants kept quiet, Daboll included, through the season to try to at least keep it in house (arguing over pizza). Wink looked every bit the Buddy Ryan coaching tree to the end, with the juvenile "24 hour" stunt on his playcall sheet. He is daring the Giants to fire him.
So the Giants are now going on the offensive and calling his bluff.
However, the longer this drags out, it actually hurts both sides. This will end up a legal issue at some point if the Giants look to fill his position while he's still in it, which is why Garafolo was given this info. No one wants Wink back, especially Wink.
What is going to happen, IMO, Wink's agents and the Giants will finalize his exit package. He will get his money. He will not be allowed to coach in the NFC East unless it's for a HC job (good luck). Now, maybe they play hardball and tell him to sit on a beach in Florida in his compression sleeves all 2024, but I think that's part of the negotiation.
This is all public posturing to get to an agreed upon non-compete. Like I said, welcome to Corporate America.
how can we be sure of the assumptions in your second paragraph?
because it's in everyone's interest.
there is a contract in place - if wink wants out and the giants want out a settlement is the way for both sides to do that.
it is not in winks interest to be out of the nfl for a 1 year under his contract, unless he wants a vacation. in which case the giants would oblige him probably. so if he wants out of his contract he will have to give the giants something they want, which is likely staying out of the division.
he probably made a similar deal with baltimore 2 years ago when they let him out, it's unlikely they did that with him free to go to pitt or whatever other divisional team was looking for a DC back then.
They are like Ferrari fast, splashy, look at me. They also require careful care and maintenance. They are not built to last.
Your second assumption is based on your first assumption.
There really isn't anything to support that teams are regularly tampering with coaches that are under contract, especially considering that they would only likely do so when they have vacancies of their own, and those vacancies tend to be rather high profile, and usually happen immediately after the season concludes.
Besides, what would be the benefit of reaching out to a coach that's under contract if you still need permission from his current team to hire him anyway? Why risk the tampering charges just to do things out of order?
If your assumptions were valid, the scenario you'd see play out would be coaches getting fired at some point after the initial wave of "Black Monday" terminations, with very quick backfills from other staffs, because ultimately what you're describing is a situation where a team would be determining whether an desirable upgrade even exists before pulling the plug on the incumbent in that role.
Do you see that scenario happening with any frequency? I can't think of many (if any) instances that fit.
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but hang out in FL? I’m sure at some point he would be expected to show up for team meetings, and if he doesn’t, they can fire him for cause, but how long would that take?
I understand what the Giants are doing here, but there are ways that Wink can string things along that could seriously handicap how the Giants move forward. Given that Wink’s Giants career is almost certainly over, they could miss out on the opportunity to interview the better DC candidates.
I guess make sure that Henderson and Patterson are resigned for next year, and one of them can become the DC if no better candidates are left, but yeah, what a shitshow.
I have to believe that not showing up for work (whether it's a team meeting, practice or even a game) would be something that voided Wink's contract, without further compensation.
Think about it. I doubt the team lawyers drew up a contract that would allow a coach to not quit, but then also not show up for team meetings... and expect to be compensated for the remaining year on his contract.
Right, but would the contract void with a noncompete clause intact?
I don't think this is about the money. Mara has paid a fortune to make coaches go away. I think this is about controlling where he can go next (and honestly, probably a bit of mutual spite at this point).
Not necessarily. Deliberate just means deliberate. Whatever approach they take, they're doing so with deliberation, that's all I'm saying.
Firing him could be deliberate; it could also be impulsive and reactive (which would not be deliberate in the way that I'm intending).
I don't think we'll ever know for sure, but it's plausible. What favors Daboll is the poor performance of the OLB group since their arrival and the fact that Daboll fired one of his own good friends.
If the Giants wanted Wink to stay, they would not have fired his 2 assistants.
If the Giants wanted Wink to stay, they would not have fired his 2 assistants.
First of all, he has more than two assistants.
Secondly, Daboll also fired one of his own closest allies in Bobby Johnson.
Firing the Wilkins brothers could have been a shot across the bow at Wink, or it could have just been a shot at the Wilkins brothers themselves. Their performance wasn't above reproach, and it's also entirely possible that one/both of them may have been the Glazer/Raanan leak.
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In comment 16357354 I am Ninja said:
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Why can this franchise never just be fucking normal?
It might have something to do with NYC market and the media there. Just a hunch.
The NYC market isn't that unique, nor is the NYC sports media. The Giants have long been irrelevant to any other segment of the NYC media anyway.
This isn't about environmental factors, IMO. It's about Wink being a lunatic and the Giants being exceedingly deliberate in their response.
I'm with you up until the second part of your last sentence.
Just fire the dolt and move on. He's not worth all of this nuance and time. Wink is a good DC, not a Hall of Famer like Dick LeBeau. Let him go wherever his petulant, giant size head and ego wants to go. His reputation seems pretty sullied at this point.
The longer this goes on, it really starts to hurt Wink's position because at some point there will be no open DC positions available. It wouldn't surprise me if the moment all NFC East DC positions are filled, Wink gets fired for cause.
I'd be shocked if there was any other explanation.
It was a power move on Daboll's part.
Wink got his stories out for a couple months painting Daboll as the bad guy. Planted leaks to try to force his firing so he can collect & choose his next job, and ding Daboll for fun. Giants kept quiet, Daboll included, through the season to try to at least keep it in house (arguing over pizza). Wink looked every bit the Buddy Ryan coaching tree to the end, with the juvenile "24 hour" stunt on his playcall sheet. He is daring the Giants to fire him.
So the Giants are now going on the offensive and calling his bluff.
However, the longer this drags out, it actually hurts both sides. This will end up a legal issue at some point if the Giants look to fill his position while he's still in it, which is why Garafolo was given this info. No one wants Wink back, especially Wink.
What is going to happen, IMO, Wink's agents and the Giants will finalize his exit package. He will get his money. He will not be allowed to coach in the NFC East unless it's for a HC job (good luck). Now, maybe they play hardball and tell him to sit on a beach in Florida in his compression sleeves all 2024, but I think that's part of the negotiation.
This is all public posturing to get to an agreed upon non-compete. Like I said, welcome to Corporate America.
WINNER.
Teams do this all of the time, even at the HC level. The Cowboys wouldn't let the Giants talk to Dave Wannstedt.
It's not complicated. Wink wanted out, but he wants his money and freedom. The Giants don't like the way he put himself over team and don't want to give him the money and freedom. They don't want him in Philly. It's not more complicated than that.
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In comment 16357530 CoughlinHandsonHips said:
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Wink playing checkers, while the gmen playing chess here.
Wink marches out with his "24" clipboard, while Gmen drill down into the language of the contract
Very laughable.
They haven't pulled off a queen's gambit if they pay him most or all of his salary and he's the defensive coordinator of his hometown Bengals in two weeks.
I'm not calling a victory quite yet.
I am sure Wink or his agent has gotten a lawyer by now.
Aren't most agents lawyers?
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Did Daboll fire the Wilkins brothers just to piss off Wink so he would quit?
I'd be shocked if there was any other explanation.
It was a power move on Daboll's part.
Thibs had more sacks this year but his pass rush win rate actually declined. I don't think our edge players played particularly well against the run or pass other than Thibs getting hot for spell. We were near the top of the league in blitz percentage but near the bottom in sacks.
Also, I think it is rumored that the Wilkins brothers were the source of the leak to Glazer and the leak annoyed Dabs. So yeah, do a mediocre to poor job, leak negative comments to the media about your boss and act like you are not accountable and well you no longer have a job.
Nominally, yes. Doesn't mean that termination disputes are their specialty though.
Would this hinder our abilty to look for and hire his replacement?
The attorneys will figure this out like adults, because Daboll and Martindale can't.
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But I’m sure teams do this ALL THE TIME. There is no way to know what is going on “behind the scenes” and extremely difficult to prove tampering charges unless it’s so obvious. If it were, there would be a plethora of tampering charges each year.
Your second assumption is based on your first assumption.
There really isn't anything to support that teams are regularly tampering with coaches that are under contract, especially considering that they would only likely do so when they have vacancies of their own, and those vacancies tend to be rather high profile, and usually happen immediately after the season concludes.
Besides, what would be the benefit of reaching out to a coach that's under contract if you still need permission from his current team to hire him anyway? Why risk the tampering charges just to do things out of order?
If your assumptions were valid, the scenario you'd see play out would be coaches getting fired at some point after the initial wave of "Black Monday" terminations, with very quick backfills from other staffs, because ultimately what you're describing is a situation where a team would be determining whether an desirable upgrade even exists before pulling the plug on the incumbent in that role.
Do you see that scenario happening with any frequency? I can't think of many (if any) instances that fit.
I understand and of course I am making an assumption but I think it goes on in more subtle ways like the "asking for a friend" scenario. There are just so many ways that an agent/rep can get around this similar to the Rooney Rule. I just don't think I am being naive here.
This is going to end badly for Wink.
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In comment 16357373 TyreeHelmet said:
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Garafolo is such a Giants mouthpiece. They don’t want Wink back.
Not even close to true.
You think the Giants want Wink back? Or that Garafolo isn’t a mouthpiece for the Giants?
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In comment 16357402 Joey in VA said:
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In comment 16357373 TyreeHelmet said:
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Garafolo is such a Giants mouthpiece. They don’t want Wink back.
Not even close to true.
You think the Giants want Wink back? Or that Garafolo isn’t a mouthpiece for the Giants?
The mouthpiece part. He's agenda less for the most part, he reports what he's told by people he trusts.
But that report was complete bullshit and a lie. A national reporter like Garafolo obviously knew that, he was just putting out that BS as a favor...