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CBS Sports Mock Draft... trade down

KingBlue : 1/19/2024 10:09 am
It's that time of year again... I view mock drafts as kind of a fun time killer. I don't take mocks seriously, especially this early, but when I see them they are like a guilty pleasure. I'm posting this one because the three QB's go 1,2,3 and the Giants trade back to 9. So for discussion... do you like the trade back? Do you like the selection of Bowers? Do you think the compensation is adequate or not enough?

1. Bears - Caleb Williams, QB
2. Washington - Drake Maye, QB
3. Pats - Jayden Daniels, QB
4. Cards - Marvin Harrison Jr., WR
5. Chargers - Malik Nabers, WR
6. Bears - Laiatu Latu, Edge
7. Titans - Olumuyiwa Fashanu, OT
8. Falcons - Jer'Zhan Newton, DL

9. GIANTS - Chicago sends its third-round pick (No. 75 overall) to New York in this slide back, and the Giants get Brock Bowers in the process. Win.

Bears trade up tp # 6 - ( New Window )
I third seems a little light  
Giantsfan79 : 1/19/2024 10:11 am : link
for a top 10 trade back.

I'd rather take the WR Odunze in this scenario.  
Optimus-NY : 1/19/2024 10:14 am : link
Then use some draft capital to move up to the end of the 1st to take one of the QBs from the second triumvirate, as I refer to them: Penix, Nix, & McCarthy. Nix would be the guy I target from that group.
The Giants are  
section125 : 1/19/2024 10:16 am : link
not taking OT, TE or DT in the 1st round. They probaly would take OT before Bowers.
They need QB, WR, ER, CB.

Why is this so doggone hard to understand?
RE: I third seems a little light  
nochance : 1/19/2024 10:18 am : link
In comment 16370782 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
for a top 10 trade back.


need a 2
Although Bowers is very talented  
DonnieD89 : 1/19/2024 10:21 am : link
I disagree with the selection of a tight end, when you have a WR one available in Odunze. I agreed that just a third rounder to move up for Chicago is light. I would demand 3rd and 4th round pick given that Chicago doesn’t have a second round pick. I also agree with utilizing that capital to try to move up and take one of the second tier quarterbacks in the back end of the first round. I would be elated if they ended up with Odunze and Penix.
RE: I third seems a little light  
logman : 1/19/2024 10:21 am : link
In comment 16370782 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
for a top 10 trade back.


FWIW, the draft pick value charts have the difference between #6 and #9 the same as the 4th pick of Round 3.

RE: The Giants are  
jvm52106 : 1/19/2024 10:22 am : link
In comment 16370789 section125 said:
Quote:
not taking OT, TE or DT in the 1st round. They probaly would take OT before Bowers.
They need QB, WR, ER, CB.

Why is this so doggone hard to understand?


NEVER say not and they very well could take a player head and shoulders above others. That being said a 3rd to drop from 6th to 10th is way too light. A 3rd and a 3rd next year, maybe, a 2nd swap and a 3rd makes more sense.
RE: RE: The Giants are  
jvm52106 : 1/19/2024 10:23 am : link
In comment 16370801 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
In comment 16370789 section125 said:


Quote:


not taking OT, TE or DT in the 1st round. They probaly would take OT before Bowers.
They need QB, WR, ER, CB.

Why is this so doggone hard to understand?



NEVER say not and they very well could take a player head and shoulders above others. That being said a 3rd to drop from 6th to 10th is way too light. A 3rd and a 3rd next year, maybe, a 2nd swap and a 3rd makes more sense.


sorry, 3rd and a swap elsewhere could make more sense. No way we do it for a 3rd period.
RE: The Giants are  
KingBlue : 1/19/2024 10:24 am : link
In comment 16370789 section125 said:
Quote:
not taking OT, TE or DT in the 1st round. They probaly would take OT before Bowers.
They need QB, WR, ER, CB.

Why is this so doggone hard to understand?


I'm not going to disagree with your take at all. I do think Bowers is worthy of a top ten selection by someone. I think the majority of posters will opine that the Giants would need more than a 3rd to drop to 9.
RE: The Giants are  
KingBlue : 1/19/2024 10:25 am : link
In comment 16370789 section125 said:
Quote:
not taking OT, TE or DT in the 1st round. They probaly would take OT before Bowers.
They need QB, WR, ER, CB.

Why is this so doggone hard to understand?


I'm not going to disagree with your take at all. I do think Bowers is worthy of a top ten selection by someone. I think the majority of posters will opine that the Giants would need more than a 3rd to drop to 9.
Look at the history of TE picks this high  
HardTruth : 1/19/2024 10:26 am : link
People say the risk is too high on QBs? Take a look at the TEs picked at top of draft
RE: The Giants are  
rsjem1979 : 1/19/2024 10:27 am : link
In comment 16370789 section125 said:
Quote:
not taking OT, TE or DT in the 1st round. They probaly would take OT before Bowers.
They need QB, WR, ER, CB.

Why is this so doggone hard to understand?


I mean, if Bowers is going to be Rob Gronkowski, you'd take him in a heartbeat.

I'm not saying he is, but if the belief is that he can have that kind of impact on an offense as both a blocker and a receiver, it would not be a bad pick.
Up, not down.  
ThomasG : 1/19/2024 10:27 am : link
Please.
Bowers is seen by many as a top 5-10 talent  
blueblood : 1/19/2024 10:29 am : link
but taking him that high.. I cant see it for the Giants. We have greater needs at Edge and CB over a TE..
I’m not sure why either team would do that deal unless the Giants want  
Ivan15 : 1/19/2024 10:31 am : link
To accumulate multiple picks by trading down again and picking one of the second tier QBs.

For the Bears, it would give them a better selection of WRs at #6.
RE: RE: I third seems a little light  
nochance : 1/19/2024 10:32 am : link
In comment 16370798 logman said:
Quote:
In comment 16370782 Giantsfan79 said:


Quote:


for a top 10 trade back.




FWIW, the draft pick value charts have the difference between #6 and #9 the same as the 4th pick of Round 3.



The bears are getting the #1 OT in the draft with the 6th pick. They should give considerably more than the chart
RE: RE: RE: I third seems a little light  
logman : 1/19/2024 10:45 am : link
In comment 16370828 nochance said:
Quote:
In comment 16370798 logman said:


Quote:


In comment 16370782 Giantsfan79 said:


Quote:


for a top 10 trade back.




FWIW, the draft pick value charts have the difference between #6 and #9 the same as the 4th pick of Round 3.





The bears are getting the #1 OT in the draft with the 6th pick. They should give considerably more than the chart


I don't make the values nor the trades. I'm just reporting what the chart says. Take it, again, FWIW.
Some don't understand  
Blueworm : 1/19/2024 10:47 am : link
Positional value.
Fuckin awful  
robbieballs2003 : 1/19/2024 10:58 am : link
.
Terrible  
kelly : 1/19/2024 11:00 am : link
With all our needs a 240 pound TE? no way
Instant reaction  
Blue Dog : 1/19/2024 11:03 am : link
RE: The Giants are  
5BowlsSoon : 1/19/2024 11:03 am : link
In comment 16370789 section125 said:
Quote:
not taking OT, TE or DT in the 1st round. They probaly would take OT before Bowers.
They need QB, WR, ER, CB.

Why is this so doggone hard to understand?


You don’t think we need more OL help?

Since when did you become a believer in Neal, Bredeson, Ezeudu, Pugh, McKethan, Peart and Glowinski? Some of these are free agents so they may not even be on the team.
Don't like this move  
Giants : 1/19/2024 11:03 am : link
I do see a greater chance of the Giants trading down rather than up
RE: RE: RE: I third seems a little light  
Victor in CT : 1/19/2024 11:07 am : link
In comment 16370828 nochance said:
Quote:
In comment 16370798 logman said:


Quote:


In comment 16370782 Giantsfan79 said:


Quote:


for a top 10 trade back.




FWIW, the draft pick value charts have the difference between #6 and #9 the same as the 4th pick of Round 3.





The bears are getting the #1 OT in the draft with the 6th pick. They should give considerably more than the chart


no they are not: 6. Bears - Laiatu Latu, Edge
RE: I third seems a little light  
RHPeel : 1/19/2024 11:15 am : link
In comment 16370782 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
for a top 10 trade back.


Agreed. It took the Eagles a third to swap with Dallas to get DeVonta Smith, and that was just 2 slots, lower in the draft.

To flip from 6 to 9, I'd want a #4 and their 2nd from next season. (They already dealt their 2.)
Don’t like it or any trade backs actually  
eli4life : 1/19/2024 11:16 am : link
I’m tired of the half measures if they love one of the qb’s do what you need to and go get him and then move on and start building the rest around him.
RE: I'd rather take the WR Odunze in this scenario.  
upnyg : 1/19/2024 11:19 am : link
In comment 16370787 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
Then use some draft capital to move up to the end of the 1st to take one of the QBs from the second triumvirate, as I refer to them: Penix, Nix, & McCarthy. Nix would be the guy I target from that group.
I agree
So, you want to see Schoen/Daboll fired?  
SirLoinOfBeef : 1/19/2024 11:26 am : link
That's what this draft will do.

A TE at 9th overall? Can't be serious.
JFC these mocks are terrible.  
bwitz : 1/19/2024 11:31 am : link
RE: Don’t like it or any trade backs actually  
GFAN52 : 1/19/2024 11:35 am : link
In comment 16370879 eli4life said:
Quote:
I’m tired of the half measures if they love one of the qb’s do what you need to and go get him and then move on and start building the rest around him.


No matter what NY loves, if the Bears also want to go with a new QB, then you aren't going to get one of the top three.
RE: RE: Don’t like it or any trade backs actually  
Optimus-NY : 1/19/2024 11:48 am : link
In comment 16370901 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
In comment 16370879 eli4life said:


Quote:


I’m tired of the half measures if they love one of the qb’s do what you need to and go get him and then move on and start building the rest around him.



No matter what NY loves, if the Bears also want to go with a new QB, then you aren't going to get one of the top three.


Exactly good sir
...  
ryanmkeane : 1/19/2024 12:16 pm : link
I would probably take Odunze or Turner before Bowers. That would be a great scenario though, getting back a top 80 pick and still getting a stud.
...  
ryanmkeane : 1/19/2024 12:17 pm : link
This is more realistic than some might like to admit, especially if the price to trade up is too rich, and those quality players still being on the board at 9
This team has deep needs at a lot of critical positions  
Mike from Ohio : 1/19/2024 12:43 pm : link
coming out of the first round with a TE, even one as good as Bowers, would be absurd.
Taking a TE in round 1  
Lambuth_Special : 1/19/2024 12:48 pm : link
The tight end would basically have to be the best in the league or it's a total waste, because you can find great tight ends much later.
RE: This team has deep needs at a lot of critical positions  
ryanmkeane : 1/19/2024 12:48 pm : link
In comment 16371002 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
coming out of the first round with a TE, even one as good as Bowers, would be absurd.

Well, if he's a better and more athletic version of Sam LaPorta, I'm guessing fans would not think it was absurd to have a player like that.
RE: I third seems a little light  
k2tampa : 1/19/2024 1:01 pm : link
In comment 16370782 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
for a top 10 trade back.


People have unreal expectations based on what teams give up to get to no. 1 or 2, or teams moving up 10 or more spots.The Bears give up a high third in this to move from 9 to 6. The Eagles gave up a fourth to move from 10 to 8 to pick Smith. You're not getting a first unless you move down 10 or more spots. You won't get a 2 unless you move down 5 or more. It also depends on who teams want. QBs will bring high picks.
If you think he is the next tony Gonzales  
Festina Lente : 1/19/2024 1:02 pm : link
Sure. Why not?
RE: If you think he is the next tony Gonzales  
Manhattan : 1/19/2024 1:03 pm : link
In comment 16371042 Festina Lente said:
Quote:
Sure. Why not?


I prefer Nabers or Odunze, but if QB isn't there and Nabers is gone I can see the logic in Bowers.
No chance  
Sammo85 : 1/19/2024 1:12 pm : link
.
Incomplete  
Bruner4329 : 1/19/2024 1:56 pm : link
The beauty of a one round mock with trades is you do not get to see how the rest of the draft plays out and in particular to the picks you acquire, Now that you would have 2 second round picks and 2 third round picks what if you traded back into the late first round and got another very good player? Would that not change the opinion of some people on this trade?
if they do that  
hassan : 1/19/2024 2:03 pm : link
they have no idea about positional value and learned nothing from 2018 when they screwed up the 2nd overall pick royally.
Throw In Justin Fields  
varco : 1/19/2024 2:08 pm : link
And you got a deal.
The 2nd worst offensive line in NFL history  
Reese's Pieces : 1/19/2024 2:46 pm : link
and tied for 28th in sacks made, and they want to draft a wide receiver. HA! What would Parcells think. What would George Young think?

How did the picks of Odell Beckham Jr. and Barkley work out?

I remember when the people here were all saying they should get rid of Nicks because he was doggin' it in camp. In his contract year he was not trying hard. Sorry, but I must continue to rarely show up here.

How many obscure receivers made big plays in the Super Bowl runs, all of them, and then were out of the league two years later. Plax is the only name receiver on any of those teams and he had one big game in Green Bay and was silent in the Super Bowl until the TD pass.

Oh my God! A wide receiver.
RE: RE: I third seems a little light  
Joe Beckwith : 1/19/2024 3:24 pm : link
In comment 16370791 nochance said:
Quote:
In comment 16370782 Giantsfan79 said:


Quote:


for a top 10 trade back.




need a 2

I agree. But they don’t have one, unless they maybe get one for Fields; even if it’s in the late 50s.
Giants could then package up 2 of these 3: 38, 47, 50+, back into round 1, if they can find a buy…if they wanted to.
I would do that trade in a heartbeat  
JFIB : 1/19/2024 6:11 pm : link
And Take Bo Nix at 9. We would still have two 2's and two 3's to bolster the DL, OL and WR slots. It would be a great move.
RE: The 2nd worst offensive line in NFL history  
anon837 : 1/19/2024 6:15 pm : link
In comment 16371221 Reese's Pieces said:
Quote:
and tied for 28th in sacks made, and they want to draft a wide receiver. HA! What would Parcells think. What would George Young think?

How did the picks of Odell Beckham Jr. and Barkley work out?

I remember when the people here were all saying they should get rid of Nicks because he was doggin' it in camp. In his contract year he was not trying hard. Sorry, but I must continue to rarely show up here.

How many obscure receivers made big plays in the Super Bowl runs, all of them, and then were out of the league two years later. Plax is the only name receiver on any of those teams and he had one big game in Green Bay and was silent in the Super Bowl until the TD pass.

Oh my God! A wide receiver.
We're not in the 1980s anymore. The NFL has been opened to favor the passing game, not the power run offense. And secondly, the Giants aren't contending any time soon. They have way too much work to do, on the field and and the coaching staff. And finally, there are other rounds to grab a tackle. You can absolutely find a quality OT after Rd 1. Alpha WR1 are not as easily found.
I don't have much issue trading down a few slots  
David B. : 1/19/2024 8:40 pm : link
But as others say, you need a 2 in return, not a 3.



RE: I'd rather take the WR Odunze in this scenario.  
Reale01 : 1/19/2024 8:40 pm : link
In comment 16370787 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
Then use some draft capital to move up to the end of the 1st to take one of the QBs from the second triumvirate, as I refer to them: Penix, Nix, & McCarthy. Nix would be the guy I target from that group.


Yes to Odunze in this spot.
No trade up.
The plus side to this  
AROCK1000 : 1/19/2024 9:23 pm : link
Would be we won't feel compelled to sign Waller.
That $ can be used for FA to fill a gap
RE: RE: The 2nd worst offensive line in NFL history  
giantstock : 1/19/2024 10:12 pm : link
In comment 16371473 anon837 said:
Quote:
In comment 16371221 Reese's Pieces said:


Quote:


and tied for 28th in sacks made, and they want to draft a wide receiver. HA! What would Parcells think. What would George Young think?

How did the picks of Odell Beckham Jr. and Barkley work out?

I remember when the people here were all saying they should get rid of Nicks because he was doggin' it in camp. In his contract year he was not trying hard. Sorry, but I must continue to rarely show up here.

How many obscure receivers made big plays in the Super Bowl runs, all of them, and then were out of the league two years later. Plax is the only name receiver on any of those teams and he had one big game in Green Bay and was silent in the Super Bowl until the TD pass.

Oh my God! A wide receiver.

We're not in the 1980s anymore. The NFL has been opened to favor the passing game, not the power run offense. And secondly, the Giants aren't contending any time soon. They have way too much work to do, on the field and and the coaching staff. And finally, there are other rounds to grab a tackle. You can absolutely find a quality OT after Rd 1. Alpha WR1 are not as easily found.


Nor are the Offenses run by strictly Air Coryell. You saw Chiefs win last year and they relied on a running game. And who is the MVP of the 49er's?

The point is-- sometimes the passing game gets shutdown. How good can a WR be going for championships with a crummy OL and QB?
RE: If you think he is the next tony Gonzales  
Joe Beckwith : 1/20/2024 9:50 am : link
In comment 16371042 Festina Lente said:
Quote:
Sure. Why not?

If he’s the next Mark Bavaro I’d take him.
The team needs some ‘nasty’.
RE: RE: If you think he is the next tony Gonzales  
blueblood : 1/20/2024 10:00 am : link
In comment 16371797 Joe Beckwith said:
Quote:
In comment 16371042 Festina Lente said:


Quote:


Sure. Why not?


If he’s the next Mark Bavaro I’d take him.
The team needs some ‘nasty’.


Bavaro 4th
Kelce 3rd
Kittle 4th
Andrews 3rd
LaPorta 3rd


Using a Top pick on a TE is malpractice.. See Kyle Pitts, David Njoku
RE: RE: RE: The 2nd worst offensive line in NFL history  
anon837 : 1/20/2024 12:39 pm : link
In comment 16371659 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 16371473 anon837 said:


Quote:


In comment 16371221 Reese's Pieces said:


Quote:


and tied for 28th in sacks made, and they want to draft a wide receiver. HA! What would Parcells think. What would George Young think?

How did the picks of Odell Beckham Jr. and Barkley work out?

I remember when the people here were all saying they should get rid of Nicks because he was doggin' it in camp. In his contract year he was not trying hard. Sorry, but I must continue to rarely show up here.

How many obscure receivers made big plays in the Super Bowl runs, all of them, and then were out of the league two years later. Plax is the only name receiver on any of those teams and he had one big game in Green Bay and was silent in the Super Bowl until the TD pass.

Oh my God! A wide receiver.

We're not in the 1980s anymore. The NFL has been opened to favor the passing game, not the power run offense. And secondly, the Giants aren't contending any time soon. They have way too much work to do, on the field and and the coaching staff. And finally, there are other rounds to grab a tackle. You can absolutely find a quality OT after Rd 1. Alpha WR1 are not as easily found.



Nor are the Offenses run by strictly Air Coryell. You saw Chiefs win last year and they relied on a running game. And who is the MVP of the 49er's?

The point is-- sometimes the passing game gets shutdown. How good can a WR be going for championships with a crummy OL and QB?
The Chiefs' running game pushed through because they were the beneficiary of a great coach and an all-pro QB. If they stacked the box with 8, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The running game benefited from the defense trying to minimize the slick passing game. And the MVP of the 49ers is an all-world weapon. He was playing well before he got there. C Mac is not a UDFA. And yes, you need complimentary football. All run or all pass isn't going to win you games. The passing game can be shut down, just like the running game can be shut down. This team is lacking in scary talent. The OL needs to be worked. You don't reach for a single OL. The QB needs to be upgraded. The fact that they reached for a mediocre QB is the reason they are in this mess now. At #6, they need an impact play maker. Somebody that the opposing unit will have to game plan for. An OT is not that player in this draft and I don't see a franchise QB falling. No more reaching, especially for OL. They pumped enough resources in to that position. Hopefully, the new coach can get these guys going.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The 2nd worst offensive line in NFL history  
giantstock : 1/20/2024 2:02 pm : link
In comment 16371942 anon837 said:
Quote:
In comment 16371659 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 16371473 anon837 said:


Quote:


In comment 16371221 Reese's Pieces said:


Quote:


and tied for 28th in sacks made, and they want to draft a wide receiver. HA! What would Parcells think. What would George Young think?

How did the picks of Odell Beckham Jr. and Barkley work out?

I remember when the people here were all saying they should get rid of Nicks because he was doggin' it in camp. In his contract year he was not trying hard. Sorry, but I must continue to rarely show up here.

How many obscure receivers made big plays in the Super Bowl runs, all of them, and then were out of the league two years later. Plax is the only name receiver on any of those teams and he had one big game in Green Bay and was silent in the Super Bowl until the TD pass.

Oh my God! A wide receiver.

We're not in the 1980s anymore. The NFL has been opened to favor the passing game, not the power run offense. And secondly, the Giants aren't contending any time soon. They have way too much work to do, on the field and and the coaching staff. And finally, there are other rounds to grab a tackle. You can absolutely find a quality OT after Rd 1. Alpha WR1 are not as easily found.



Nor are the Offenses run by strictly Air Coryell. You saw Chiefs win last year and they relied on a running game. And who is the MVP of the 49er's?

The point is-- sometimes the passing game gets shutdown. How good can a WR be going for championships with a crummy OL and QB?

The Chiefs' running game pushed through because they were the beneficiary of a great coach and an all-pro QB. If they stacked the box with 8, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The running game benefited from the defense trying to minimize the slick passing game. And the MVP of the 49ers is an all-world weapon. He was playing well before he got there. C Mac is not a UDFA. And yes, you need complimentary football. All run or all pass isn't going to win you games. The passing game can be shut down, just like the running game can be shut down. This team is lacking in scary talent. The OL needs to be worked. You don't reach for a single OL. The QB needs to be upgraded. The fact that they reached for a mediocre QB is the reason they are in this mess now. At #6, they need an impact play maker. Somebody that the opposing unit will have to game plan for. An OT is not that player in this draft and I don't see a franchise QB falling. No more reaching, especially for OL. They pumped enough resources in to that position. Hopefully, the new coach can get these guys going.


Everything above you said here also applies to the WR. While WR is more impactful than the RB but the Giants team is devoid of overall talent not just at WR. The WR pick you are proposing can't have championship impact until the OL is fixed or they get a top-tier QB.

Where has Jefferson led Minny? Where has Hill led Miami? Where has Chase led Cincy without Burrow? These are "all-world" players just as you refer to McAffrey as and speak of KC.

And while you speak of San Fran today- well what about prior to McCaffrey? Didn’t hey get to a super bowl with an elite defense and not so high-powered passing game? SO why should we ignore this when we see that it has worked while we have also seen the superstar WR's of Jefferson and Hill go nowhere? And Chanse only gets to Super Bowl because of the super QB.

If you don't have the super QB-- build the trenches just as San Fran has shown. Where is Jefferson going to lead Minny in the future as great as he is? Probably the same with Hill. And both teams qb's are pretty good - yet where are they lacking? In the trenches. That’s why if possible the WR should be passed otherwise without the super QB or without the trenches, that WR you are proposing ain't leading Giants anywhere.

As I have said though on other threads if they can’t get the QB and the WR pick is quite a bit better than other picks, and you can’t trade down in the manner you like, then yeah get the WR. As I said on other threads; that would be disappointing but yeah – ok.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The 2nd worst offensive line in NFL history  
anon837 : 1/20/2024 2:29 pm : link
In comment 16372035 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 16371942 anon837 said:


Quote:


In comment 16371659 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 16371473 anon837 said:


Quote:


In comment 16371221 Reese's Pieces said:


Quote:


and tied for 28th in sacks made, and they want to draft a wide receiver. HA! What would Parcells think. What would George Young think?

How did the picks of Odell Beckham Jr. and Barkley work out?

I remember when the people here were all saying they should get rid of Nicks because he was doggin' it in camp. In his contract year he was not trying hard. Sorry, but I must continue to rarely show up here.

How many obscure receivers made big plays in the Super Bowl runs, all of them, and then were out of the league two years later. Plax is the only name receiver on any of those teams and he had one big game in Green Bay and was silent in the Super Bowl until the TD pass.

Oh my God! A wide receiver.

We're not in the 1980s anymore. The NFL has been opened to favor the passing game, not the power run offense. And secondly, the Giants aren't contending any time soon. They have way too much work to do, on the field and and the coaching staff. And finally, there are other rounds to grab a tackle. You can absolutely find a quality OT after Rd 1. Alpha WR1 are not as easily found.



Nor are the Offenses run by strictly Air Coryell. You saw Chiefs win last year and they relied on a running game. And who is the MVP of the 49er's?

The point is-- sometimes the passing game gets shutdown. How good can a WR be going for championships with a crummy OL and QB?

The Chiefs' running game pushed through because they were the beneficiary of a great coach and an all-pro QB. If they stacked the box with 8, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The running game benefited from the defense trying to minimize the slick passing game. And the MVP of the 49ers is an all-world weapon. He was playing well before he got there. C Mac is not a UDFA. And yes, you need complimentary football. All run or all pass isn't going to win you games. The passing game can be shut down, just like the running game can be shut down. This team is lacking in scary talent. The OL needs to be worked. You don't reach for a single OL. The QB needs to be upgraded. The fact that they reached for a mediocre QB is the reason they are in this mess now. At #6, they need an impact play maker. Somebody that the opposing unit will have to game plan for. An OT is not that player in this draft and I don't see a franchise QB falling. No more reaching, especially for OL. They pumped enough resources in to that position. Hopefully, the new coach can get these guys going.



Everything above you said here also applies to the WR. While WR is more impactful than the RB but the Giants team is devoid of overall talent not just at WR. The WR pick you are proposing can't have championship impact until the OL is fixed or they get a top-tier QB.

Where has Jefferson led Minny? Where has Hill led Miami? Where has Chase led Cincy without Burrow? These are "all-world" players just as you refer to McAffrey as and speak of KC.

And while you speak of San Fran today- well what about prior to McCaffrey? Didn’t hey get to a super bowl with an elite defense and not so high-powered passing game? SO why should we ignore this when we see that it has worked while we have also seen the superstar WR's of Jefferson and Hill go nowhere? And Chanse only gets to Super Bowl because of the super QB.

If you don't have the super QB-- build the trenches just as San Fran has shown. Where is Jefferson going to lead Minny in the future as great as he is? Probably the same with Hill. And both teams qb's are pretty good - yet where are they lacking? In the trenches. That’s why if possible the WR should be passed otherwise without the super QB or without the trenches, that WR you are proposing ain't leading Giants anywhere.

As I have said though on other threads if they can’t get the QB and the WR pick is quite a bit better than other picks, and you can’t trade down in the manner you like, then yeah get the WR. As I said on other threads; that would be disappointing but yeah – ok.
What San Fran has done with their roster is consistently hit on their picks, trades, and FAs. They swung for the fences with Lance and missed, but they usually hit more than they miss. Their lines were built slowly and without reaching. I always helps to have a smart coach and front office. Right now the giants haven't shown they have any of those things. What I am saying with this thread is they need to get talent with their first three picks. Be it a WR, game wrecking edge or DT, alpha WR, or even later on, a mauling OL. They're not going anywhere for a minimum of two years. QB is still a question, holes on this roster as well as the coaching staff. They can take their time. If they trade up for the signal caller, great. if they trade down, they can accumulate some players to continue the rebuild. But no more going to the grocery store famished. No more paying premium price for Wagyu and end up getting spam.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The 2nd worst offensive line in NFL history  
giantstock : 1/20/2024 3:09 pm : link
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The Chiefs' running game pushed through because they were the beneficiary of a great coach and an all-pro QB. If they stacked the box with 8, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The running game benefited from the defense trying to minimize the slick passing game. And the MVP of the 49ers is an all-world weapon. He was playing well before he got there. C Mac is not a UDFA. And yes, you need complimentary football. All run or all pass isn't going to win you games. The passing game can be shut down, just like the running game can be shut down. This team is lacking in scary talent. The OL needs to be worked. You don't reach for a single OL. The QB needs to be upgraded. The fact that they reached for a mediocre QB is the reason they are in this mess now. At #6, they need an impact play maker. Somebody that the opposing unit will have to game plan for. An OT is not that player in this draft and I don't see a franchise QB falling. No more reaching, especially for OL. They pumped enough resources in to that position. Hopefully, the new coach can get these guys going.



Everything above you said here also applies to the WR. While WR is more impactful than the RB but the Giants team is devoid of overall talent not just at WR. The WR pick you are proposing can't have championship impact until the OL is fixed or they get a top-tier QB.

Where has Jefferson led Minny? Where has Hill led Miami? Where has Chase led Cincy without Burrow? These are "all-world" players just as you refer to McAffrey as and speak of KC.

And while you speak of San Fran today- well what about prior to McCaffrey? Didn’t hey get to a super bowl with an elite defense and not so high-powered passing game? SO why should we ignore this when we see that it has worked while we have also seen the superstar WR's of Jefferson and Hill go nowhere? And Chanse only gets to Super Bowl because of the super QB.

If you don't have the super QB-- build the trenches just as San Fran has shown. Where is Jefferson going to lead Minny in the future as great as he is? Probably the same with Hill. And both teams qb's are pretty good - yet where are they lacking? In the trenches. That’s why if possible the WR should be passed otherwise without the super QB or without the trenches, that WR you are proposing ain't leading Giants anywhere.

As I have said though on other threads if they can’t get the QB and the WR pick is quite a bit better than other picks, and you can’t trade down in the manner you like, then yeah get the WR. As I said on other threads; that would be disappointing but yeah – ok.

What San Fran has done with their roster is consistently hit on their picks, trades, and FAs. They swung for the fences with Lance and missed, but they usually hit more than they miss. Their lines were built slowly and without reaching. I always helps to have a smart coach and front office. Right now the giants haven't shown they have any of those things. What I am saying with this thread is they need to get talent with their first three picks. Be it a WR, game wrecking edge or DT, alpha WR, or even later on, a mauling OL. They're not going anywhere for a minimum of two years. QB is still a question, holes on this roster as well as the coaching staff. They can take their time. If they trade up for the signal caller, great. if they trade down, they can accumulate some players to continue the rebuild. But no more going to the grocery store famished. No more paying premium price for Wagyu and end up getting spam.


Thanks I enjoy the civil conversation. Just curious, why do you think they nead an alpha WR this year when they have so much to fill going forward?

You don't agree with that with a lousy OL and a subpar/and/or lousy QB that the alpha WR won't have that much of an impact other than get you some wins but lead you to mediocrirty which is the worst place to be? I see what Beckham did- he singehandedly won games to keep Giants at that mediocre level. Then at soem point everyone becamse tired of the other. The WR's tend to be mercurial. His greatness was wasted beucase the team wasn't ready just like this team isn't ready.

WR's also have a limited life that they are usper and by the time the giants get real good, that alpha WR is going to be looking for elite bucks while not having many years left of elite play.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The 2nd worst offensive line in NFL history  
anon837 : 1/20/2024 4:18 pm : link
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The Chiefs' running game pushed through because they were the beneficiary of a great coach and an all-pro QB. If they stacked the box with 8, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The running game benefited from the defense trying to minimize the slick passing game. And the MVP of the 49ers is an all-world weapon. He was playing well before he got there. C Mac is not a UDFA. And yes, you need complimentary football. All run or all pass isn't going to win you games. The passing game can be shut down, just like the running game can be shut down. This team is lacking in scary talent. The OL needs to be worked. You don't reach for a single OL. The QB needs to be upgraded. The fact that they reached for a mediocre QB is the reason they are in this mess now. At #6, they need an impact play maker. Somebody that the opposing unit will have to game plan for. An OT is not that player in this draft and I don't see a franchise QB falling. No more reaching, especially for OL. They pumped enough resources in to that position. Hopefully, the new coach can get these guys going.



Everything above you said here also applies to the WR. While WR is more impactful than the RB but the Giants team is devoid of overall talent not just at WR. The WR pick you are proposing can't have championship impact until the OL is fixed or they get a top-tier QB.

Where has Jefferson led Minny? Where has Hill led Miami? Where has Chase led Cincy without Burrow? These are "all-world" players just as you refer to McAffrey as and speak of KC.

And while you speak of San Fran today- well what about prior to McCaffrey? Didn’t hey get to a super bowl with an elite defense and not so high-powered passing game? SO why should we ignore this when we see that it has worked while we have also seen the superstar WR's of Jefferson and Hill go nowhere? And Chanse only gets to Super Bowl because of the super QB.

If you don't have the super QB-- build the trenches just as San Fran has shown. Where is Jefferson going to lead Minny in the future as great as he is? Probably the same with Hill. And both teams qb's are pretty good - yet where are they lacking? In the trenches. That’s why if possible the WR should be passed otherwise without the super QB or without the trenches, that WR you are proposing ain't leading Giants anywhere.

As I have said though on other threads if they can’t get the QB and the WR pick is quite a bit better than other picks, and you can’t trade down in the manner you like, then yeah get the WR. As I said on other threads; that would be disappointing but yeah – ok.

What San Fran has done with their roster is consistently hit on their picks, trades, and FAs. They swung for the fences with Lance and missed, but they usually hit more than they miss. Their lines were built slowly and without reaching. I always helps to have a smart coach and front office. Right now the giants haven't shown they have any of those things. What I am saying with this thread is they need to get talent with their first three picks. Be it a WR, game wrecking edge or DT, alpha WR, or even later on, a mauling OL. They're not going anywhere for a minimum of two years. QB is still a question, holes on this roster as well as the coaching staff. They can take their time. If they trade up for the signal caller, great. if they trade down, they can accumulate some players to continue the rebuild. But no more going to the grocery store famished. No more paying premium price for Wagyu and end up getting spam.



Thanks I enjoy the civil conversation. Just curious, why do you think they nead an alpha WR this year when they have so much to fill going forward?

You don't agree with that with a lousy OL and a subpar/and/or lousy QB that the alpha WR won't have that much of an impact other than get you some wins but lead you to mediocrirty which is the worst place to be? I see what Beckham did- he singehandedly won games to keep Giants at that mediocre level. Then at soem point everyone becamse tired of the other. The WR's tend to be mercurial. His greatness was wasted beucase the team wasn't ready just like this team isn't ready.

WR's also have a limited life that they are usper and by the time the giants get real good, that alpha WR is going to be looking for elite bucks while not having many years left of elite play.
They need an alpha WR1 any year. Does not matter. I'm tired of bringing a knife to a gunfight. And as I said, this team has holes. They're not contending any time soon until they shore up the coaching and talent. They are not one player away. hell, even if they shore up the OL, they're not going anywhere. QB, WR, OL, LB, RB, etc. They have holes. This year is a good year to start getting play makers. A lousy Ol will derail any offense. That goes without saying. So does a bad QB, which they have a room full of. So does a bunch of WR 2s and 3s masquerading as 1s and 2s. No consistent pass rush and suspect tackling. This team needs work. Blowing the 6th pick on an OT is not a smart investment. They can find OT/OL in the second or 3rd round. Other teams do it every year. Most of the great Ol in this league are littered with picks after the first or even in the bottom third of the first. So yes, the OL needs to be fixed. But so does everything else on this team. Let's get the OL coach in here to get the guys going instead of dropping another top ten pick on the line. Having an All Pro is fantastic, but not needed. You can get a bubbling pro bowler that is high functioning and can manhis position. That's what you need. 5 guys working as one. A bubbling pro bowl WR doesn't scare any one.
All the folks criticizing Bowers  
BigBlueBuff : 1/20/2024 9:01 pm : link
haven’t seen him play. That is all.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The 2nd worst offensive line in NFL history  
giantstock : 1/21/2024 3:05 am : link
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Thanks I enjoy the civil conversation. Just curious, why do you think they nead an alpha WR this year when they have so much to fill going forward?

You don't agree with that with a lousy OL and a subpar/and/or lousy QB that the alpha WR won't have that much of an impact other than get you some wins but lead you to mediocrirty which is the worst place to be? I see what Beckham did- he singehandedly won games to keep Giants at that mediocre level. Then at soem point everyone becamse tired of the other. The WR's tend to be mercurial. His greatness was wasted beucase the team wasn't ready just like this team isn't ready.

WR's also have a limited life that they are usper and by the time the giants get real good, that alpha WR is going to be looking for elite bucks while not having many years left of elite play.

They need an alpha WR1 any year. Does not matter. I'm tired of bringing a knife to a gunfight. And as I said, this team has holes. They're not contending any time soon until they shore up the coaching and talent. They are not one player away. hell, even if they shore up the OL, they're not going anywhere. QB, WR, OL, LB, RB, etc. They have holes. This year is a good year to start getting play makers. A lousy Ol will derail any offense. That goes without saying. So does a bad QB, which they have a room full of. So does a bunch of WR 2s and 3s masquerading as 1s and 2s. No consistent pass rush and suspect tackling. This team needs work. Blowing the 6th pick on an OT is not a smart investment. They can find OT/OL in the second or 3rd round. Other teams do it every year. Most of the great Ol in this league are littered with picks after the first or even in the bottom third of the first. So yes, the OL needs to be fixed. But so does everything else on this team. Let's get the OL coach in here to get the guys going instead of dropping another top ten pick on the line. Having an All Pro is fantastic, but not needed. You can get a bubbling pro bowler that is high functioning and can manhis position. That's what you need. 5 guys working as one. A bubbling pro bowl WR doesn't scare any one.


What you are proposing imo still is a knife to a gunfight. Again we see Minny with Jefferson and a decent enough QB they got beat by a team with a toy knife.

While you mention you can get OL (I believe they also need more help in the front 7) in rounds 2 and 3, they should try to build in 1st 3 rounds their front 7, not the WR if they can't get the QB. That same knife is being used too frequently in the trenches too.

You could worry about the WR once you get the QB. Jefferson was drafted 22nd. AJ Brown was drafted in Rd 2. Amon St Brown was drafted in 4th Rd. Tyreke Hill drafted in the 5th round. Recently Nacua in rd 5.

The big issue is I stated that you are going to waste years with this new WR - then once his contract approaches- he is going to want a massive extension which WR's tend to get though risky due to a limited life of being elite.

Instead you can more easily lock in the trench players and get good enough less expensive trench players in FA.
The 49er way should be the Giants way until they get the QB. -- But again if WR is quite a bit better - okay get him.

Until Offense and Defense trenches are improved significantly - the WR the get in this draft is nothing more than a paper knife. For example, trade down if possible.
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