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How to have a consistently good football team - long thread

mfjmfj : 1/22/2024 8:56 am
What does it take to be consistently good - think Pittsburg, NE, SF, Philly, etc.

1). Good, preferably stable, head coaching. I think this is the most important thing. You have the find the right person and stick with them long run.

2). Good management.
A). Good drafting - the most important thing besides coaching. Drafts pick are cost controlled, self replicating (i.e. comp picks), and available every year. Your team today is based almost entirely on your last three drafts. If they went well you have good talent. If not, then not.
B). Roster management - Free agency, which is much less important than the draft since you are paying FMV for every pick up. But mistakes hurt a lot. Deciding which players to keep. Trades for those final pieces.
C). Cap management - widely misunderstood. Very flexible so you can move money around, but have to pay eventually. Most important skill here is knowing when to strike. Most teams, at some point, have to do a Rams or an Eagles and just load it up to make a run. Making those runs fundamentally interferes with being a consistently good team. If you make this push, you will have ups and downs.

3). QB - have to have one who is at least competent, and there are only 15 to 20 guys in the league who fit that description in any given year. To be consistent over time you need one who in consistently in the top 10 or 15. To have a chance at SBs and be consistently good you need a great one - Brady, Mahomes, etc. They can outplay the outrageous cost of a great QB, while the merely really good can't and so you either have to overspend (i.e. Rams and Eagles) or try and be good every year and occasionally make a lucky run. Eli was an outlier, because he was only a good to very good QB in the regular season, but in the playoffs he was Brady/Mahomes level.

4). Luck - this may be the single biggest factor. Sometimes you get Tom Brady in the 6th round or Brock Purdy in the 7th (not comparing the two, but Purdy is good enough and rescued them from horrible decisions in Trey Lance and Jimmy Garropolo). Injuries are mostly luck and are a critical element in success.

How do the Giants rank for me:
1). A- - I am still sold on Daboll but this could move to F next year if we regress again. Over the last decade it is a solid F, since we failed both in who was the coach and the stability test.

2). A- - Again still sold on Schoen and his first two drafts. I hope next year that we can give him an A+. Fully concede that his grade could drop precipitously depending on 2024. Gettlemen was a generous D- from the beginning. Reese started at A and finished at C.

3). D- - Feels generous here. Unless DJ has a miraculous turn around the current roster is barren here. If we trade up for QB Schoen's grade will depend almost entirely on how that goes.

4). F - on injuries alone the NYGs have been exceptionally unlucky.


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RE: ...  
rsjem1979 : 1/22/2024 4:35 pm : link
In comment 16375013 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
This thread has now turned into "it is the QB you idiots" when before it was actually a good discussion.

Niners and Lions are likely where they are today if Daniel Jones was their quarterback, that's the truth of it.


That’s a very cute opinion that you’ve again attempted to disguise as a fact.
RE: ...  
ajr2456 : 1/22/2024 4:36 pm : link
In comment 16375006 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
I thought the point of the post was how to have a consistently good football team?


Still waiting for someone to answer the question of how many consistently good teams have had average QB play? Care to acknowledge your made up 49ers and Eagles stats too?
RE: Some of you are conflating making the playoffs with winning  
ThomasG : 1/22/2024 4:37 pm : link
In comment 16375005 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
And competing for titles. Those chiefs teams with Smith won a grand total of one playoff game, they were never real threats to a title.


Beat me to the punch with this. Well put ajr.

RE: ...  
ThomasG : 1/22/2024 4:39 pm : link
In comment 16375013 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
This thread has now turned into "it is the QB you idiots" when before it was actually a good discussion.

Niners and Lions are likely where they are today if Daniel Jones was their quarterback, that's the truth of it.


Post Of The Day, right there folks.
Jared Goff almost has as many TDS  
ajr2456 : 1/22/2024 4:42 pm : link
As a Lion as Jones has in 6 years.
RE: Jared Goff almost has as many TDS  
ryanmkeane : 1/22/2024 4:54 pm : link
In comment 16375030 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
As a Lion as Jones has in 6 years.

Right. And do you think that's all because of Jared Goff? Or because they have the best OL in the sport and one of the league's best play callers?
RE: RE: Jared Goff almost has as many TDS  
ajr2456 : 1/22/2024 4:57 pm : link
In comment 16375038 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 16375030 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


As a Lion as Jones has in 6 years.


Right. And do you think that's all because of Jared Goff? Or because they have the best OL in the sport and one of the league's best play callers?


He had that in 2021 when he threw more TDs than Jones has thrown since 2019?
...  
christian : 1/22/2024 5:07 pm : link
Quote:
Niners and Lions are likely where they are today if Daniel Jones was their quarterback, that's the truth of it.


Say what now?

RE: ...  
bw in dc : 1/22/2024 5:10 pm : link
In comment 16375013 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:


Niners and Lions are likely where they are today if Daniel Jones was their quarterback, that's the truth of it.


Why stop at the Niners and Lions?

I recall you being gung-ho with Jones after he supposedly outplayed LJax last year during the regular season. And haven't you been skeptical about LJax as a big game performer/passer?

Reid is an offensive genius. You don't think Reid could elevate Jones somewhere near the Mahomes level?


..  
ryanmkeane : 1/22/2024 5:12 pm : link
ajr - what exactly are you trying to say about Goff?

Jared Goff is around the same player he was in 2021 when he had 19 passing TDs and 8 INT, and the Lions were bad. They were bad because their overall team sucked.

Johnson didn't become the OC until 2022.

They got much much better skill players, have the best OL in football, and arguably the game's best OC, which is why he looks very good now.

RE: ..  
ajr2456 : 1/22/2024 5:17 pm : link
In comment 16375067 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
ajr - what exactly are you trying to say about Goff?

Jared Goff is around the same player he was in 2021 when he had 19 passing TDs and 8 INT, and the Lions were bad. They were bad because their overall team sucked.

Johnson didn't become the OC until 2022.

They got much much better skill players, have the best OL in football, and arguably the game's best OC, which is why he looks very good now.


Jared Goff is a much better QB than Daniel Jones. It’s not even close. Goff was better before he got Ben Johnson and will remain better for as long as both are in the NFL.
I’ll add  
ajr2456 : 1/22/2024 5:18 pm : link
Goff was a better QB in high school and in college. Daniel Jones wishes he was half as talented as Goff.
I'm still trying to understand how the OP...  
bw in dc : 1/22/2024 5:30 pm : link
gave Schoen an A for his drafting. Nothing supports that yet.

The Herbert situation with LAC seems to support the HC/GM argument. Stafford going to the LAR, too. Breed going to the Saints.

But I'm still going with the person who has to be on the field executing the play in a game situation. I value the talent actually playing more than the talent developing and finding players.
I can’t believe  
ChalkyWhite : 1/22/2024 5:35 pm : link
what I am reading here. Wrong and strong. There has never been a point in life that Jones was better than or on the same level as Goff. Goff at his worst is better than anything Jones has ever done. I usually just read the nonsense and stay silent but for Christ’s sake give it up.
RE: ...  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/22/2024 5:49 pm : link
In comment 16375006 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
I thought the point of the post was how to have a consistently good football team?

How is it not?

You just don't agree with the answer.
RE: ...Niners and Lions are likely where they are today if Daniel Jone  
BlueVinnie : 1/22/2024 5:53 pm : link
In comment 16375013 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
This thread has now turned into "it is the QB you idiots" when before it was actually a good discussion.

Niners and Lions are likely where they are today if Daniel Jones was their quarterback, that's the truth of it.

Definitely wrong regarding Jones on the Niners or Lions. Purdy and Goff are pretty accurate QBs, Jones is not. I'm not talking about completion percentage. I'm talking about ball placement. Purdy and Goff can hit their receivers in stride and allow them to gain a fair amount of YAK. Jones is all over the place. Passes can be anywhere, below the n\knees, behind the receiver, too high, etc. The NIner and Lions offenses would be nowhere near where they are with Jones firing his off target throws around the field.
 
ryanmkeane : 1/22/2024 7:51 pm : link
BlueVinnie - just curious - did you watch Purdy on Saturday night? It was discussed all game, and after the game, that he was wildly inaccurate.
RE: …  
ajr2456 : 1/22/2024 7:56 pm : link
In comment 16375202 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
BlueVinnie - just curious - did you watch Purdy on Saturday night? It was discussed all game, and after the game, that he was wildly inaccurate.


So you’re basing it off of one game? Seems to be a trend for you.

Have you watched all 60 Daniel Jones games?
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/22/2024 7:57 pm : link
You need a good HC & QB. I think Dabs is a good coach, but he needs a legit QB to work with, not that fraud making $40 million.
RE: …  
ThomasG : 1/22/2024 8:00 pm : link
In comment 16375202 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
BlueVinnie - just curious - did you watch Purdy on Saturday night? It was discussed all game, and after the game, that he was wildly inaccurate.


Accuracy is something that doesn't kick in until Year 5 for many QBs. Sometimes Year 6.
RE: RE: …  
rsjem1979 : 1/23/2024 7:32 am : link
In comment 16375215 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 16375202 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


BlueVinnie - just curious - did you watch Purdy on Saturday night? It was discussed all game, and after the game, that he was wildly inaccurate.



So you’re basing it off of one game? Seems to be a trend for you.

Have you watched all 60 Daniel Jones games?


Don’t you get it? Jones gets judged on his best games, every other QB is only judged on their worst.
RE: …  
BlueVinnie : 1/23/2024 8:13 am : link
In comment 16375202 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
BlueVinnie - just curious - did you watch Purdy on Saturday night? It was discussed all game, and after the game, that he was wildly inaccurate.

Yes I did. Purdy did not look good in that game, no question about it. Am I just supposed to disregard the rest of his body of work? Do I think Purdy is s great QB - no. But as a thrower of the football, he's way ahead of DJ.
Hey, if SF or DET want Jones, they can have him, cheap  
Manhattan : 1/23/2024 9:26 am : link
He couldn't play for those teams. He's clueless, pre-snap, he is easily rattled and makes mistakes, he can't read the field, he's not decisive, and he's inaccurate.
RE: RE: RE: ....  
lax counsel : 1/23/2024 9:31 am : link
In comment 16374919 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 16374534 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 16374514 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


Consistent dominance on OL and DL keeps you in the hunt every year



Where are all the Cowboys NFC championship game appearances? Quit fooling yourself, it’s the QB.


I wouldn't use the Cowboys as an example. They have been a very consistent solid to good team for awhile now and have had a top 10-12 QB throughout that time. I thought that was the point of the post. Anything can happen when you get into the dance. Unfortunately they matched up with SF two years in a row.

Making the argument that it is just about the QB is ridiculous at this point. Brock Purdy is probably going to the Super Bowl, he's pretty average to above average but their team is incredible. Jared Goff - could go to the SB for the 2nd time, both times his teams were great, he wasn't and isn't anything special.


I suggest you take a look at Jared Goff's #s this year. If Daniel Jones had those numbers, you'd be booking your tickets for the Canton induction.

You also made another point about both the Lions and 49ers being in the same place with Jones. If we would like to speak truth, Jones is more likely than not a backup to Purdy and Goff on these teams.
RE: RE: …  
lax counsel : 1/23/2024 9:36 am : link
In comment 16375221 ThomasG said:
Quote:
In comment 16375202 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


BlueVinnie - just curious - did you watch Purdy on Saturday night? It was discussed all game, and after the game, that he was wildly inaccurate.



Accuracy is something that doesn't kick in until Year 5 for many QBs. Sometimes Year 6.


I mean I feel like we are on crazy pills here. Jones is an NFL backup. If he were on any other team we'd be laughing our asses off for the mess that franchise put themselves in. I'm now reading he's been as good as Purdy (who is a borderline NFL MVP this year) and Jared Goff (whose worst year was better than Jones best year).

I think the sooner everyone accepts the fact that the Giants next franchise qb isn't currently on the roster, the easier it will be to accept just how far away the Giants are from sniffing another SB.
RE: RE: RE: RE: ....  
Manhattan : 1/23/2024 9:38 am : link
In comment 16375437 lax counsel said:
Quote:
In comment 16374919 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


In comment 16374534 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 16374514 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


Consistent dominance on OL and DL keeps you in the hunt every year



Where are all the Cowboys NFC championship game appearances? Quit fooling yourself, it’s the QB.


I wouldn't use the Cowboys as an example. They have been a very consistent solid to good team for awhile now and have had a top 10-12 QB throughout that time. I thought that was the point of the post. Anything can happen when you get into the dance. Unfortunately they matched up with SF two years in a row.

Making the argument that it is just about the QB is ridiculous at this point. Brock Purdy is probably going to the Super Bowl, he's pretty average to above average but their team is incredible. Jared Goff - could go to the SB for the 2nd time, both times his teams were great, he wasn't and isn't anything special.



I suggest you take a look at Jared Goff's #s this year. If Daniel Jones had those numbers, you'd be booking your tickets for the Canton induction.

You also made another point about both the Lions and 49ers being in the same place with Jones. If we would like to speak truth, Jones is more likely than not a backup to Purdy and Goff on these teams.


Right. Jones might be a good backup to Purdy or Goff.
RE: RE: RE: …  
Manhattan : 1/23/2024 9:41 am : link
In comment 16375356 rsjem1979 said:
Quote:
In comment 16375215 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 16375202 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


BlueVinnie - just curious - did you watch Purdy on Saturday night? It was discussed all game, and after the game, that he was wildly inaccurate.



So you’re basing it off of one game? Seems to be a trend for you.

Have you watched all 60 Daniel Jones games?



Don’t you get it? Jones gets judged on his best games, every other QB is only judged on their worst.


Bingo. I once saw Jones throw a nice spiral for a completion. And LJax threw a really clueless pick once. Ergo...
Guys but he won  
ajr2456 : 1/23/2024 9:49 am : link
A wildcard game!
OMG already dudes.  
Johnny5 : 1/23/2024 9:52 am : link
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah

Oh and by the way

Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah


Holy fuckballz already
RE: OMG already dudes.  
lax counsel : 1/23/2024 9:56 am : link
In comment 16375464 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah

Oh and by the way

Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah


Holy fuckballz already


You are right, let's not discuss the single largest albatross on the Giants books and the most visible and impactful position in the NFL on a Giants based website...
RE: RE: OMG already dudes.  
Johnny5 : 1/23/2024 9:59 am : link
In comment 16375469 lax counsel said:
Quote:
In comment 16375464 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah

Oh and by the way

Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah


Holy fuckballz already



You are right, let's not discuss the single largest albatross on the Giants books and the most visible and impactful position in the NFL on a Giants based website...

Ok. 10,000 posts? EVERY. FUCKING. THREAD. ?
There's like 800  
Lambuth_Special : 1/23/2024 10:03 am : link
Advanced and regular stats that allows you to compare Jones to Goff. The advanced stats even control for stuff like receiver drops and bad line play. If you're claiming that Jones is equal to Goff, it is an act that is basically ignoring all evidence.

But then again, there was a group on here that said - even prior to Jones 2022 season - that he had a Kirk Cousins level ceiling, even though Jones hadn't even come close to Cousins' numbers at point in his career.
RE: There's like 800  
Manhattan : 1/23/2024 10:04 am : link
In comment 16375481 Lambuth_Special said:
Quote:
Advanced and regular stats that allows you to compare Jones to Goff. The advanced stats even control for stuff like receiver drops and bad line play. If you're claiming that Jones is equal to Goff, it is an act that is basically ignoring all evidence.

But then again, there was a group on here that said - even prior to Jones 2022 season - that he had a Kirk Cousins level ceiling, even though Jones hadn't even come close to Cousins' numbers at point in his career.


For a while they were lamenting Cousins was his FLOOR.
Perfectly content  
Lambuth_Special : 1/23/2024 10:05 am : link
With every thread being gummed up with Jones stuff until he either plays well and wins consistently or is benched/off the roster. The Giants want to subject us to a 6th year of this? They deserve no rest from scrutiny.
RE: RE: There's like 800  
Lambuth_Special : 1/23/2024 10:09 am : link
In comment 16375485 Manhattan said:
Quote:
In comment 16375481 Lambuth_Special said:


Quote:


Advanced and regular stats that allows you to compare Jones to Goff. The advanced stats even control for stuff like receiver drops and bad line play. If you're claiming that Jones is equal to Goff, it is an act that is basically ignoring all evidence.

But then again, there was a group on here that said - even prior to Jones 2022 season - that he had a Kirk Cousins level ceiling, even though Jones hadn't even come close to Cousins' numbers at point in his career.



For a while they were lamenting Cousins was his FLOOR.


Haha yeah I forgot that.

And speaking of floor, Cousins is the perfect example of how QB play influences winning. He's been solidly above-average for his career, in the 10-15 range of QBs - no more, no less. He has not ever been on a single great team since he became a full-time starter in Washington in 2015. Yet he has far more winning seasons than losing ones, and has only been below .500 twice.
RE: RE: RE: There's like 800  
Manhattan : 1/23/2024 10:15 am : link
In comment 16375494 Lambuth_Special said:
Quote:
In comment 16375485 Manhattan said:


Quote:


In comment 16375481 Lambuth_Special said:


Quote:


Advanced and regular stats that allows you to compare Jones to Goff. The advanced stats even control for stuff like receiver drops and bad line play. If you're claiming that Jones is equal to Goff, it is an act that is basically ignoring all evidence.

But then again, there was a group on here that said - even prior to Jones 2022 season - that he had a Kirk Cousins level ceiling, even though Jones hadn't even come close to Cousins' numbers at point in his career.



For a while they were lamenting Cousins was his FLOOR.



Haha yeah I forgot that.

And speaking of floor, Cousins is the perfect example of how QB play influences winning. He's been solidly above-average for his career, in the 10-15 range of QBs - no more, no less. He has not ever been on a single great team since he became a full-time starter in Washington in 2015. Yet he has far more winning seasons than losing ones, and has only been below .500 twice.


As a pure passer, Cousins has been well within the top 10 the last few years. He just offers zero second reaction offense. And his under pressure numbers have been terrific recently.
it drives me crazy  
The Jake : 1/23/2024 10:20 am : link
when Giants fans attribute our franchise’s injury history to bad luck.

were taking about a 15 year sample size of the Giants being the most injured team in the league, players around the league routinely criticizing our stadium, the NFLPA singling our stadium out, and a parade of non-contact leg injuries.
Daniel Jones wouldn’t get another starting job in the league  
ajr2456 : 1/23/2024 10:21 am : link
If he was healthy and cut tomorrow. But some think the 9ers and Lions would be a game away from the Super Bowl with him.

Hysterical and pathetic at the same time.
RE: it drives me crazy  
Manhattan : 1/23/2024 10:22 am : link
In comment 16375521 The Jake said:
Quote:
when Giants fans attribute our franchise’s injury history to bad luck.

were taking about a 15 year sample size of the Giants being the most injured team in the league, players around the league routinely criticizing our stadium, the NFLPA singling our stadium out, and a parade of non-contact leg injuries.


Is there good data underscoring this *most injured team* assertion? Seriously asking.
if you can look at this list (leg injuries only)  
The Jake : 1/23/2024 10:23 am : link
and think to yourself “my, what shitty luck we have,” then you are Little Red Riding Hood staring at the wolf’s mouth and wondering what happened to grandma’s dental hygiene.

- Kenny Phillips (2009)
- Steve Smith (2010)
- Jonathan Goff (2011)
- Stevie Brown (2013)
- Ramses Barden (2013)
- David Baas (2013)
- Jerrel Jernigan (2014)
- Mathias Kiwanuka (2014)
- Geoff Schwartz (2014)
- Jon Beason (2015)
- Reuben Randle (2015)
- Nat Behre (2015)
- Daniel Fells (2015 - *nearly died)
- Owa Odighizuwa (2015)
- Mykkele Thompson (2015, 2016, and 2017)
- Orleans Darkwa (2016)
- Matt LaCosse (2016)
- J.T. Thomas (2016 and 2017)
- Darian Thompson (2016)
- D.J. Fluker (2017)
- Adam Gettis (2017)
- B.J. Goodson (2017)
- Dwayne Harris (2017)
- Janoris Jenkins (2017)
- Brandon Marshall (2017)
- Romeo Okwara (2017)
- Keenan Robinson (2017)
- Odell Beckham Jr. (2018)
- Nick Gates (2018 and 2021)
- Jonathan Stewart (2018)
- Antonio Hamilton (2018)
- Sam Beal (2019)
- Corey Coleman (2019)
- Ryan Connelly (2019)
- Amba Etta-Tawo (2019)
- Jon Halapio (2018 and 2019)
- Russell Shepard (2019)
- Saquon Barkley (2020)
- Lorenzo Carter (2020)
- Xavier McKinney (2020)
- David Sills (2020)
- Carter Coughlin (2021)
- Nate Ebner (2021)
- Blake Martinez (2021)
- Jabril Peppers (2021)
- Rodarius Williams (2021)
- Evan Engram (6 soft tissue injuries from 2018 - 2021)
- Sterling Shepard (2021 and 2022)
- Darian Beavers (2022)
- D.J. Davidson (2022)
- Collin Johnson (2022)
- Shane Lemieux (2022)
- Marcus McKethan (2022)
- Aaron Robinson (2022)
- Wan'Dale Robinson (2022)
- Ellerson Smith (2022)
- Jarrad Davis (2023)
- Josh Ezeudu (2023)
- Bryce Ford-Wheaton (2023)
- Daniel Jones (2023)
- Evan Neal (2023)
RE: RE: it drives me crazy  
The Jake : 1/23/2024 10:25 am : link
In comment 16375532 Manhattan said:
Quote:
In comment 16375521 The Jake said:


Quote:


when Giants fans attribute our franchise’s injury history to bad luck.

were taking about a 15 year sample size of the Giants being the most injured team in the league, players around the league routinely criticizing our stadium, the NFLPA singling our stadium out, and a parade of non-contact leg injuries.



Is there good data underscoring this *most injured team* assertion? Seriously asking.


yes, there is. start with this:
Giants - most man-games lost since 2009 - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: OMG already dudes.  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/23/2024 10:43 am : link
In comment 16375472 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 16375469 lax counsel said:


Quote:


In comment 16375464 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah

Oh and by the way

Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah


Holy fuckballz already



You are right, let's not discuss the single largest albatross on the Giants books and the most visible and impactful position in the NFL on a Giants based website...


Ok. 10,000 posts? EVERY. FUCKING. THREAD. ?

Yes.

You don't think that most teams' fanbases spend a fair amount of time and bandwidth discussing their QB? And that the volume of discussion might increase when a team has a troublesome/questionable QB situation?

Even if it was on injury concern alone, Jones would merit a fair amount of the conversation. Given that there are contract questions, performance concerns, draft implications, AND injury issues, why wouldn't you expect there to be a significantly higher amount of DJ-oriented posts than any other topic or infused within any other topic? It's by far the most important topic that we have to discuss as fans.

Add to that the fact that there is a wide range of views on what the Giants should do to address their QB situation for 2024 and beyond, and you're going to get a lot of posts about it.

And let me know when you grow tired of Jack Stroud's or Eightshamrocks' posts. Seems it's not the volume of posts that bothers you - it's the criticism.
RE: RE: RE: it drives me crazy  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/23/2024 10:44 am : link
In comment 16375539 The Jake said:
Quote:
In comment 16375532 Manhattan said:


Quote:


In comment 16375521 The Jake said:


Quote:


when Giants fans attribute our franchise’s injury history to bad luck.

were taking about a 15 year sample size of the Giants being the most injured team in the league, players around the league routinely criticizing our stadium, the NFLPA singling our stadium out, and a parade of non-contact leg injuries.



Is there good data underscoring this *most injured team* assertion? Seriously asking.



yes, there is. start with this: Giants - most man-games lost since 2009 - ( New Window )

When Producer asks for "good data" what he means is, are there any social media scouts or mock drafts that cover this?

Those are the only sources he trusts.
RE: RE: RE: RE: …  
lax counsel : 1/23/2024 12:13 pm : link
In comment 16375452 Manhattan said:
Quote:
In comment 16375356 rsjem1979 said:


Quote:


In comment 16375215 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 16375202 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


BlueVinnie - just curious - did you watch Purdy on Saturday night? It was discussed all game, and after the game, that he was wildly inaccurate.



So you’re basing it off of one game? Seems to be a trend for you.

Have you watched all 60 Daniel Jones games?



Don’t you get it? Jones gets judged on his best games, every other QB is only judged on their worst.



Bingo. I once saw Jones throw a nice spiral for a completion. And LJax threw a really clueless pick once. Ergo...


What's troubling about favorable qb comparisons for Jones is that rarely are the poor comparisons made. Sam Darnold was - for a while - the favorite whipping by for BBI. I would suggest those making comparisons for Jones look to Darnold. The two stat lines and W/L records are nearly identical in nearly identical number of starts. Sam Darnold is currently an NFL backup.
RE: RE: RE: RE: it drives me crazy  
Manhattan : 1/23/2024 12:14 pm : link
In comment 16375590 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16375539 The Jake said:


Quote:


In comment 16375532 Manhattan said:


Quote:


In comment 16375521 The Jake said:


asks for "good data" what he means is, are there any social media scouts or mock drafts that cover this?

Those are the only sources he trusts.


I genuinely like many of your posts and observations, but when you veer into humor, your hit rate drops dramatically. And you come off as petty and mean. Let's try to keep it collegial. How's that sound?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: it drives me crazy  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/23/2024 12:23 pm : link
In comment 16375725 Manhattan said:
Quote:
In comment 16375590 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 16375539 The Jake said:


Quote:


In comment 16375532 Manhattan said:


Quote:


In comment 16375521 The Jake said:


asks for "good data" what he means is, are there any social media scouts or mock drafts that cover this?

Those are the only sources he trusts.



I genuinely like many of your posts and observations, but when you veer into humor, your hit rate drops dramatically. And you come off as petty and mean. Let's try to keep it collegial. How's that sound?

Did I say Manhattan?

Tsk, tsk.
Win  
TyreeHelmet : 1/23/2024 12:23 pm : link
Want to be a consistently good team? Get a good QB, it’s by far the biggest factor. The giants don’t have one which why they don’t win consistently.

And Jones is not replicating the success in Detroit or SF. If Jones was cut tomorrow he’s not getting a starting job in the league. Is there anything else left to be said for Jones?
To win a Super Bowl  
The Mike : 1/23/2024 2:04 pm : link
Quarterback is the necessary condition, head coach is the sufficient condition. Get these two parameters correct, and all of the other ad infinitum moving parts will get adjudicated correctly. Luck is an absurd excuse and does not belong in any list of performance criteria.

Aside from Nick Foles and Joe Flacco, every Super Bowl winning quarterback for the last twenty years is a future hall of famer. You simply must have an elite quarterback to win a Super Bowl given the rules and norms in today's NFL. And as we see with Joe Burrow and Josh Allen, it isn't sufficient. You also need an elite coach. Are Taylor and McDermott elite? It doesn't appear so.

Because of Daboll's apparent extraordinary ability to elevate his quarterbacks to play to their ceiling and win games, it appears that he has the ceiling himself to be an elite head coach. It is certainly reasonable to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point. But we have the worst quarterback room in the NFL. So no matter what Schoen does, unless he gets an elite quarterback in this draft, this team is going nowhere - for years to come. Focusing on anything other than correctly identifying and doing whatever it takes to draft an elite quarterback in April is pure folly at this point.
RE: To win a Super Bowl  
Manhattan : 1/23/2024 2:11 pm : link
In comment 16375854 The Mike said:
Quote:
You simply must have an elite quarterback to win a Super Bowl given the rules and norms in today's NFL.


I like your post but this statement goes a bit far. I prefer to say:

It is foolish and against all reason to settle for a mediocre quarterback and attempt to build a championship roster around him.

And sadly, this describes the Giants. The game within the game in the NFL is to acquire an elite QB by any means necessary, because then you join the exclusive club of about 8 teams who will compete for championships almost every year.
RE: OMG already dudes.  
Johnny5 : 1/23/2024 2:56 pm : link
In comment 16375587 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16375472 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


In comment 16375469 lax counsel said:


Quote:


In comment 16375464 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah

Oh and by the way

Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah
Daniel Jones blah blah blah Daniel Jones Blahty blahty blah


Holy fuckballz already



You are right, let's not discuss the single largest albatross on the Giants books and the most visible and impactful position in the NFL on a Giants based website...


Ok. 10,000 posts? EVERY. FUCKING. THREAD. ?


Yes.

You don't think that most teams' fanbases spend a fair amount of time and bandwidth discussing their QB? And that the volume of discussion might increase when a team has a troublesome/questionable QB situation?

Even if it was on injury concern alone, Jones would merit a fair amount of the conversation. Given that there are contract questions, performance concerns, draft implications, AND injury issues, why wouldn't you expect there to be a significantly higher amount of DJ-oriented posts than any other topic or infused within any other topic? It's by far the most important topic that we have to discuss as fans.

Add to that the fact that there is a wide range of views on what the Giants should do to address their QB situation for 2024 and beyond, and you're going to get a lot of posts about it.

And let me know when you grow tired of Jack Stroud's or Eightshamrocks' posts. Seems it's not the volume of posts that bothers you - it's the criticism.

Well. I can't disagree with you here. Carry on then.
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