Knowledge for quite some time.
Gettleman said it himself, this not the first time a GM has fallen in love with a player and locked in.
(See Ditka and Ricky Williams)
You gotta have conviction but it can cost you big time if you are wrong.
Unless I am missing something, a GM just can’t refuse to listen to offers.
That mistake reminds be of when the Giants had no plan for the 96 draft If the first five picks of that draft didn’t go as planned.
Our only saving grace here is Gettleman would have likely
was terrible not for picking Saquon but for how he went about it, failing to see Eli’s decline, then forcing for a mediocre reach QB pick a year later we are still suffering for, and all the while being unable to rehab and build a good OL making these picks all the worse off. His inability to move beyond myopic talent evaluation and roster build was staggering. Ray Handley of GMs.
Gettleman bragged about this in his post-draft press conference. It's public knowledge.
I’m aware, but I don’t recall this specific of a story with the broncos willing to give up the house being reported
Cleveland offered him a deal for the #2 pick but he turned it down. It was to move back to #4 and pick up extra second round picks but since Gettleman would lose Saquon the answer was no.
I actually didn't like him as much as everyone else in college, but figured I was wrong.
I thought they'd be getting an Adrian Peterson in his prime-type RB, who would basically single-handedly keep you in playoff contention every year.
No.
He was amazing his rookie season. It was Eric Dickerson-like.
However, Maras kept thinking they could make another run with Eli Manning. This might have been possible if they had an offensive line and defense, but they had neither. So them adding the "luxury" of a RB when they had nothing else never made sense.
past decade was a disaster. Gettleman was a huge part of it, but he was just another symptom.
Keep in mind, his selection was preordained the moment Mara hired Accorsi as "consultant" on the GM "search."
It was so laughably transparent at the time that even the most naive among us knew the outcome.
This is why I shake my head when some claim ownership hasn't been the problem.
Yup. Or people that try to say Abrams was never a real candidate for the job after Gettleman and won’t be if Schoen gets fired.
John Mara’s incompetence going back to his reaction to the Eli benching have put this team into a terrible position.
Odell wore out his welcome but he was right, they needed better QB play. Obviously like Thibs, he could have went about it in a much better way but both players were right. The organization chose to instead trade Odell, after letting Gettleman sign him because of feelings.
Gettleman bragged about this in his post-draft press conference. It's public knowledge.
I’m aware, but I don’t recall this specific of a story with the broncos willing to give up the house being reported
Cleveland offered him a deal for the #2 pick but he turned it down. It was to move back to #4 and pick up extra second round picks but since Gettleman would lose Saquon the answer was no.
Who they be trading up for? Cleveland took their QB in Mayfield. It was no surprise the Jets were taking Darnold and NYG taking SB, So they would probably be trading for SB. Getts wasn't doing that for extra for 2 second rounders. Right or wrong, it wasn't going to happen. He saw Barkley as a "generational talent."
I don't have a lot of sympathy for Odell. They gave him a huge contract and right out of the gate, he attacked the QB. (If you felt that way, why re-sign with New York).
He also said he wanted out of NY. They obliged him.
And just last week Odell was saying how the Giants tried to hurt him by trading him away!
What a fucking idiot.
RE: RE: Our only saving grace here is Gettleman would have likely
He was fired for making non sentimental decisions and being ruthless. The players hated him, but he cleaned up the cap.
The Giants didn't get that version of Gettleman. My point is his tenure at the Panthers was nowhere near as bad as it was here. You could argue the Giants needed that type of GM at the time.
It was a lazy, bad hire. But I never thought it would be this bad.
I don't have a lot of sympathy for Odell. They gave him a huge contract and right out of the gate, he attacked the QB. (If you felt that way, why re-sign with New York).
He also said he wanted out of NY. They obliged him.
And just last week Odell was saying how the Giants tried to hurt him by trading him away!
What a fucking idiot.
Don’t disagree, but they couldn’t have went about it in a worse way. Much like Dave turning down trade offers just to let Collins walk.
This is not new. We all knew this at the time of the Draft. Gettlemen publicly said he did not answer any calls.So 5 years later it becomes a revelation. It is water under the bridge.
He was fired for making non sentimental decisions and being ruthless. The players hated him, but he cleaned up the cap.
The Giants didn't get that version of Gettleman. My point is his tenure at the Panthers was nowhere near as bad as it was here. You could argue the Giants needed that type of GM at the time.
It was a lazy, bad hire. But I never thought it would be this bad.
If the Giants got that version, they’d probably have Josh Allen or Lamar. But part of getting the job was agreeing with John they could still win with Eli.
Gettleman bragged about this in his post-draft press conference. It's public knowledge.
I’m aware, but I don’t recall this specific of a story with the broncos willing to give up the house being reported
Cleveland offered him a deal for the #2 pick but he turned it down. It was to move back to #4 and pick up extra second round picks but since Gettleman would lose Saquon the answer was no.
Who they be trading up for? Cleveland took their QB in Mayfield. It was no surprise the Jets were taking Darnold and NYG taking SB, So they would probably be trading for SB. Getts wasn't doing that for extra for 2 second rounders. Right or wrong, it wasn't going to happen. He saw Barkley as a "generational talent."
We had the #2 pick. They would have moved up in front of the Jets for Darnold.
We could have then run the correct player in Quenton Nelson. The real gold jacket player.
I actually didn't like him as much as everyone else in college, but figured I was wrong.
I thought they'd be getting an Adrian Peterson in his prime-type RB, who would basically single-handedly keep you in playoff contention every year.
No.
He was amazing his rookie season. It was Eric Dickerson-like.
However, Maras kept thinking they could make another run with Eli Manning. This might have been possible if they had an offensive line and defense, but they had neither. So them adding the "luxury" of a RB when they had nothing else never made sense.
But it made sense to ownership for some reason.
I'm not sure what people don't get about this. Gettleman was hired because he told ownership what they wanted to hear - that this team could win with Eli. The fact that Gettleman could stand up and say he wouldn't explore trade offers for 2 - and then pick a QB at 6 the next year anyway - shows that ownership was driving decision-making.
I'll give you "never knew it would be this bad" but a lot of us feared that the same cultural rot wouldn't change.
They basically went with the runner up to Jerry Reese.
When bw in dc laments about "the Giant way", this is what he is referring to.
The scar tissue from this is what affects people like me who still fear ownership is pulling too many strings. They may not be, but this is what influences our thinking.
I actually didn't like him as much as everyone else in college, but figured I was wrong.
I thought they'd be getting an Adrian Peterson in his prime-type RB, who would basically single-handedly keep you in playoff contention every year.
No.
He was amazing his rookie season. It was Eric Dickerson-like.
However, Maras kept thinking they could make another run with Eli Manning. This might have been possible if they had an offensive line and defense, but they had neither. So them adding the "luxury" of a RB when they had nothing else never made sense.
But it made sense to ownership for some reason.
Gettleman looked smarter than everyone after the rookie season but to Eric's point the team was crumbling around him.
Could Barkley be what McCaffrey brings to a championship roster probably and Carolina did the same thing with McCaffrey(over Drafted) but they were smart enough to trade him to a contender when they had the chance.
For Barkley and the Giants sake it probably better to let him walk and catch on with a contender. I like him and definitely wanted to see him succeed her but it's over.
Gettleman bragged about this in his post-draft press conference. It's public knowledge.
I’m aware, but I don’t recall this specific of a story with the broncos willing to give up the house being reported
Cleveland offered him a deal for the #2 pick but he turned it down. It was to move back to #4 and pick up extra second round picks but since Gettleman would lose Saquon the answer was no.
Who they be trading up for? Cleveland took their QB in Mayfield. It was no surprise the Jets were taking Darnold and NYG taking SB, So they would probably be trading for SB. Getts wasn't doing that for extra for 2 second rounders. Right or wrong, it wasn't going to happen. He saw Barkley as a "generational talent."
Cleveland wanted both Mayfield and Barkley which is why the answer was no.
And it wasn't right or wrong, it was just clearly wrong. The team roster was weak and need to upgrade everywhere but since DG missed that too, not making this deal was a double hit.
Mara failed twice at least. Didn't fire Reese when he fired TC. And then relied on Accorsi, who had been out if the meager for forever, to advise on DG. And you could add not fire DG. Folks think he’s making personnel choices. That’s not the issue. It’s bigger than that.
I'll give you "never knew it would be this bad" but a lot of us feared that the same cultural rot wouldn't change.
They basically went with the runner up to Jerry Reese.
When bw in dc laments about "the Giant way", this is what he is referring to.
The scar tissue from this is what affects people like me who still fear ownership is pulling too many strings. They may not be, but this is what influences our thinking.
I agree. But in the more simple sense, you nailed it above. They've had crappy QB play since 2017. We can discuss all the reasons why the QB play has been bad, but this franchise is allergic to trying to improve the QB position. They don't even try.
They have not drafted a QB since 2019. Get a competent QB and this thing can turn around fast even though many fans refuse to accept that.
I'm not sure what people don't get about this. Gettleman was hired because he told ownership what they wanted to hear - that this team could win with Eli. The fact that Gettleman could stand up and say he wouldn't explore trade offers for 2 - and then pick a QB at 6 the next year anyway - shows that ownership was driving decision-making.
Bingo. It’s the pivots, but when it’s too late. Trying to still win with Eli only to replace him in September the following year. Signing Odell and then trading him. Getting rid of Collins, but after turning down trade offers for him. Cutting Zeitler, a position of weakness, to bring in a second tight end. The Solder panic signing. The Ogletree over pay.
I'm not sure what people don't get about this. Gettleman was hired because he told ownership what they wanted to hear - that this team could win with Eli. The fact that Gettleman could stand up and say he wouldn't explore trade offers for 2 - and then pick a QB at 6 the next year anyway - shows that ownership was driving decision-making.
Bingo. It’s the pivots, but when it’s too late. Trying to still win with Eli only to replace him in September the following year. Signing Odell and then trading him. Getting rid of Collins, but after turning down trade offers for him. Cutting Zeitler, a position of weakness, to bring in a second tight end. The Solder panic signing. The Ogletree over pay.
How dare you bring up the Ogletree trade? I just winced.
Mara failed twice at least. Didn't fire Reese when he fired TC. And then relied on Accorsi, who had been out if the meager for forever, to advise on DG. And you could add not fire DG. Folks think he’s making personnel choices. That’s not the issue. It’s bigger than that.
This.
They came to the conclusion that the problem was Coughlin and kept everyone else.
Then when they realized they had a GM/scouting director problem, and that they had replaced Coughlin with the wrong man. Gettleman/ownership then had two more swings had two more swings and misses at HC (Shurmur and Judge).
Some of us thought they should clean house in 2020 like they supposedly did in 2022, given the early warning signs on Gettleman and him nearing retirement age.
In a nutshell, they simply have wasted years here... it's why the "rebuilding" process never seems to end. They really never started because they kept screwing it up.
He was fired for making non sentimental decisions and being ruthless. The players hated him, but he cleaned up the cap.
The Giants didn't get that version of Gettleman. My point is his tenure at the Panthers was nowhere near as bad as it was here. You could argue the Giants needed that type of GM at the time.
It was a lazy, bad hire. But I never thought it would be this bad.
The short list for the 2018 GM search is the problem. Gettleman turned out to be a huge mistake — but he had been the GM of a talented team, so on the basis of the resume he was a reasonable hire. But the short list was embarrassing and it showed how Mara was completely out of his depth and didn’t have the know-how to run an organization like the Giants.
I'm not sure what people don't get about this. Gettleman was hired because he told ownership what they wanted to hear - that this team could win with Eli. The fact that Gettleman could stand up and say he wouldn't explore trade offers for 2 - and then pick a QB at 6 the next year anyway - shows that ownership was driving decision-making.
Bingo. It’s the pivots, but when it’s too late. Trying to still win with Eli only to replace him in September the following year. Signing Odell and then trading him. Getting rid of Collins, but after turning down trade offers for him. Cutting Zeitler, a position of weakness, to bring in a second tight end. The Solder panic signing. The Ogletree over pay.
The list of awful decisions in Gettleman's first couple offseasons is endless. It was plainly obvious at the time he didn't know what he was doing.
The best part though was the remarks he made publicly to anyone that doubted his judgment. One of the beats listed out DG's greatest hit lines a few years back. Very funny.
talked a good game in pressers but he blatantly had no clue how to roster build in todays NFL and compete both in your division and with the trends in college and how to adjust your talent year to year in the NFL.
This is a big offseason for Schoen to make a bigger imprint on what his plan with Daboll is. You don’t get forever as GM and the clock is ticking.
But he got the pick right. Injuries/cost were the reason the thought process was wrong, and predicted by many.
Many here wanted Darnold (another thread on the same topic claimed that's who Denver wanted to trade up for), and some wanted Rosen. The thought process was right, but the pick would have been wrong.
I'm not sure what people don't get about this. Gettleman was hired because he told ownership what they wanted to hear - that this team could win with Eli. The fact that Gettleman could stand up and say he wouldn't explore trade offers for 2 - and then pick a QB at 6 the next year anyway - shows that ownership was driving decision-making.
Bingo. It’s the pivots, but when it’s too late. Trying to still win with Eli only to replace him in September the following year. Signing Odell and then trading him. Getting rid of Collins, but after turning down trade offers for him. Cutting Zeitler, a position of weakness, to bring in a second tight end. The Solder panic signing. The Ogletree over pay.
Don’t forget trading JPP - who needs him? Because he was bad for culture. Sure….
But he got the pick right. Injuries/cost were the reason the thought process was wrong, and predicted by many.
Many here wanted Darnold (another thread on the same topic claimed that's who Denver wanted to trade up for), and some wanted Rosen. The thought process was right, but the pick would have been wrong.
No the pick wasn't right. Nelson was the right pick.
the right move for the Giants would have been to trade the pick. Move down and acquire as many picks as possible (keep trading down if necessary).
The team needed to be gutted. They could have leveraged the #2 pick into something a lot more than a RB.
BTW, there were a lot of people at the time on this site saying this is what the team should have done. Some wanted a QB, but others were saying to trade down. They were right.
Gettleman was hired as soon as Reese was fired. You could feel it.
The same can be said about Schoen. It was a double edged sword. They did their homework on Schoen while Gettleman was still here. The good news is that they did their homework. The bad news is that it seemed predetermined that he was the hire and no other candidate was really a consideration. It'll be very interesting to see how Adam Peters does in Washington as a comparison.
the right move for the Giants would have been to trade the pick. Move down and acquire as many picks as possible (keep trading down if necessary).
The team needed to be gutted. They could have leveraged the #2 pick into something a lot more than a RB.
Of course. And while they also needed a RB, they could have loaded up on players all around the roster with a trade AND still added a very good RB on Day 2.
Schoen may or may not work out, but at least his later round picks are playing. (Even the 6th and 7th rounders).
But for every bad draft pick, I'll give you a Nate Solder or Kenny Golladay (as well as letting the few decent players the Giants did draft walk in free agency).
This offseason will tell a ton about Schoen. This is a crossroads offseason for the franchise.
Playing it safe will just likely get everyone fired in a year imo.
Well, I wrote an entire article on this, with respect to the QB position. If they decide to tie their fate to Daniel Jones, I doubt they will be here in January 2025.
Schoen may or may not work out, but at least his later round picks are playing. (Even the 6th and 7th rounders).
But for every bad draft pick, I'll give you a Nate Solder or Kenny Golladay (as well as letting the few decent players the Giants did draft walk in free agency).
Agreed. It’s where I have hope and if he makes tougher decisions with roster on QB, RB starting this off-season. I at least see some semblance of a deep thought process with the roster with Schoen in how talents fit, where the risk lies both short and long term.
Gettlemans thinking or perspective at how to see a player in isolation and fit in a roster is like it was out of the 1950s.
they pass on a top QB prospect you can say they're hitching their wagon to DJ. IF there's no reasonable trade to be had (which we'll only know if someone makes a reasonable trade instead of us), and no reasonable QB on the board when we pick, I don't think you can automatically assume DJ is their man. He was their medium term plan last year, but even if his light has dimmed in their eyes, circumstances may prevent them from making a change.
admitted as much after the draft - and seemed very pleased with himself while doing it. But what was really amusing at the time were all the folks on BBI that were adamant that DG didn't really ignore any potential offers and the truth was that there simply weren't any to consider.
they pass on a top QB prospect you can say they're hitching their wagon to DJ. IF there's no reasonable trade to be had (which we'll only know if someone makes a reasonable trade instead of us), and no reasonable QB on the board when we pick, I don't think you can automatically assume DJ is their man. He was their medium term plan last year, but even if his light has dimmed in their eyes, circumstances may prevent them from making a change.
If they pass on a QB, Schoen & Daboll had better draft/develop 3 or 4 rookies that become stars.
admitted as much after the draft - and seemed very pleased with himself while doing it. But what was really amusing at the time were all the folks on BBI that were adamant that DG didn't really ignore any potential offers and the truth was that there simply weren't any to consider.
I don't have a lot of sympathy for Odell. They gave him a huge contract and right out of the gate, he attacked the QB. (If you felt that way, why re-sign with New York).
He also said he wanted out of NY. They obliged him.
And just last week Odell was saying how the Giants tried to hurt him by trading him away!
What a fucking idiot.
He is trying to rewrite history to make himself the victim. Fuck Odell.
Is that the Broncos at 4 wanted to trade up to 2 to select Darnold in front of the Jets. The Jets were next on the clock and would have definitely taken either Rosen or Josh Allen at 3 meaning that Gettleman STILL could have landed Barkley at 4 while accumulating a big haul to address other holes but he didn't because he refused to pick up the phone. If I were the owners I would have demanded he listen to offers or else he would be fired.
they pass on a top QB prospect you can say they're hitching their wagon to DJ. IF there's no reasonable trade to be had (which we'll only know if someone makes a reasonable trade instead of us), and no reasonable QB on the board when we pick, I don't think you can automatically assume DJ is their man. He was their medium term plan last year, but even if his light has dimmed in their eyes, circumstances may prevent them from making a change.
These are the possible scenarios...
(1) They sign/trade for a veteran QB who can compete for the starting job. If they do this before the draft (a must if you're talking about a free agent since free agency starts in March), then that may telegraph what they are thinking.
(2) They trade up, trade down, or stand pat in the first round and draft a QB who is "the future." (this includes possibly trading into the end of the first round).
With respect to point #2, if the three guys who are CURRENTLY viewed as the top guys are gone, they actually may have someone higher on their draft board than pundits and fans. They may be right, they may be wrong, but they could draft someone who many will consider a "reach".
The scenario you suggest is the top guys are gone (possible) and there is no one else in the draft that is going to "save the franchise" (possible). If that happens, and Jones doesn't have a miraculous turnaround in his sixth season (seems unlikely), they may be screwed regardless.
I still come back to this one nagging point... there just didn't seem to be any discernible difference between Daniel Jones and Tyrod Taylor. So what the heck are we paying for?
admitted as much after the draft - and seemed very pleased with himself while doing it. But what was really amusing at the time were all the folks on BBI that were adamant that DG didn't really ignore any potential offers and the truth was that there simply weren't any to consider.
Indeed was very weird. Even after he gave the hot dogs, pretzels, bag of dough comments about offers being made.
Mara failed twice at least. Didn't fire Reese when he fired TC. And then relied on Accorsi, who had been out if the meager for forever, to advise on DG. And you could add not fire DG. Folks think he’s making personnel choices. That’s not the issue. It’s bigger than that.
This.
They came to the conclusion that the problem was Coughlin and kept everyone else.
Then when they realized they had a GM/scouting director problem, and that they had replaced Coughlin with the wrong man. Gettleman/ownership then had two more swings had two more swings and misses at HC (Shurmur and Judge).
Some of us thought they should clean house in 2020 like they supposedly did in 2022, given the early warning signs on Gettleman and him nearing retirement age.
In a nutshell, they simply have wasted years here... it's why the "rebuilding" process never seems to end. They really never started because they kept screwing it up.
This.
The "leadership" group of the Giants has made bad decision after incompetent decision for years, if not decades. Hire actual football people, let them do what needs to be done, and stay the hell out of it. Short-term pain but long-term gain.
The Gettlemen hire was a lot like the Judge hire. They both said the right things, things we all wanted to hear, but nothing to back it up.
That's exactly what he is trying to do... re-write history.
I always wonder about people who do this. Do they actually believe it themselves? Do they change their own memories to suit their narcism? Or do they know they are lying?
Is that the Broncos at 4 wanted to trade up to 2 to select Darnold in front of the Jets. The Jets were next on the clock and would have definitely taken either Rosen or Josh Allen at 3 meaning that Gettleman STILL could have landed Barkley at 4 while accumulating a big haul to address other holes but he didn't because he refused to pick up the phone. If I were the owners I would have demanded he listen to offers or else he would be fired.
No, this isn't correct. The Broncos were at #5.
Cleveland was at #4 and would have taken Barkley since they had already offered DG a deal to move into their #2 spot to draft him but he said no. Cleveland actually winds up drafting CB Denzel Ward at #4 who has been a superstar.
Is that the Broncos at 4 wanted to trade up to 2 to select Darnold in front of the Jets. The Jets were next on the clock and would have definitely taken either Rosen or Josh Allen at 3 meaning that Gettleman STILL could have landed Barkley at 4 while accumulating a big haul to address other holes but he didn't because he refused to pick up the phone. If I were the owners I would have demanded he listen to offers or else he would be fired.
No, this isn't correct. The Broncos were at #5.
Cleveland was at #4 and would have taken Barkley since they had already offered DG a deal to move into their #2 spot to draft him but he said no. Cleveland actually winds up drafting CB Denzel Ward at #4 who has been a superstar.
I remember reading that the Giants FO, minus Gettleman, wanted to draft Chubb or Nelson at 2. Had they moved down to 5, sorry for the error btw, they could have landed either of them which would have been a better option than Barkley.
At the time, I hated that he didn't even answer them phone and that he made the pick so quick. Sit there....let the time run out...make the Jets sweat...see if the Jets panic and offer something to move up to 2 to take Darnold.
And now hearing that Denver was willing to offer the house to move up to 2. First, you absolutely have to listen to them and consider the offer. As Jerry Reese once said (when asked about trading Shockey), "everyone has a trade price."
If you choose not to take the Denver trade, you leak that you're negotiating with them and that they are trying to get up. That entices the Jets to want to move up. You can even call them and tell them you're close to a deal with Denver, but you'd consider trading down to 3rd instead if they're interested.
Picking Barkley is not malpractice. But not listening to the other options or trying to be creative about it is 100%. It's lazy too; he identified the player he wanted and then stopped working.
Is that the Broncos at 4 wanted to trade up to 2 to select Darnold in front of the Jets. The Jets were next on the clock and would have definitely taken either Rosen or Josh Allen at 3 meaning that Gettleman STILL could have landed Barkley at 4 while accumulating a big haul to address other holes but he didn't because he refused to pick up the phone. If I were the owners I would have demanded he listen to offers or else he would be fired.
No, this isn't correct. The Broncos were at #5.
Cleveland was at #4 and would have taken Barkley since they had already offered DG a deal to move into their #2 spot to draft him but he said no. Cleveland actually winds up drafting CB Denzel Ward at #4 who has been a superstar.
I remember reading that the Giants FO, minus Gettleman, wanted to draft Chubb or Nelson at 2. Had they moved down to 5, sorry for the error btw, they could have landed either of them which would have been a better option than Barkley.
No worries Jay. And I think you are correct, if Barkley went overall #1 and they didn't move the Giants were rumored to taking Bradley Chubb at the #2 spot.
He could have still drafted Barkley. What a franchise altering decision in a bad way.
We are in much better hands with Schoen.
Cleveland would have drafted Saquon.
That doesn't mean Gettleman shouldn't have traded the pick. Both Denver and Cleveland wanted #2 overall. He could have played Denver and Cleveland against each other FFS.
this draft would set this team back years, we’ll DG accomplished that. What an utter buffoon. Trade the pick, pick up additional premium picks, draft Quentin Nelson, this franchise would have been in much better shape.
He fired Coughlin because that's what you do when a team struggles. But he kept 90% of the coaching staff intact, so he might as well have kept Coughlin. (Lord knows that Tom would have done well with all the talent the team brought in that offseason.)
He was on board with McAdoo's asinine plan to treat games like they were in the preseason, and only changed course when it blew up in his face. McAdoo and Reese got fired as a PR decision, not an attempt to fix things.
His best move would be to hope he finally got something right with Schoen and remove himself from any football decision. Let the GM you hired to fix the team try to fix the team.
I don't know how you don't answer the phone on draft day. If that
here has reached epic proportions.. The same shit that one idiot here decries daily and then gets mentioned in write ups- fueling his idiocy.
This is the same ownership group that over saw two SB championships and possibly a third if Plaxico doesn't shoot himself in the leg.. I find it interesting that some of the fandom blames Mara for the Eli situation and yet were the same ones up in arms about Eli being benched. The same fans blame Gettleman for drafting Barkley but then act like someone is threatening their child when the trade/cut/let leave Barkley ideas get shared.
The issue here with ownership is one thing and one thing clearly- they spend too much time listening to fans and some players- keeping the Giants way wanting to keep the "player" to keep the fans happy.. Screw that.
But, the constant blame on ownership is bullshit, tired and quite frankly a bit childish..
RE: RE: The right pick at the time at #2 was Lamar
here has reached epic proportions.. The same shit that one idiot here decries daily and then gets mentioned in write ups- fueling his idiocy.
This is the same ownership group that over saw two SB championships and possibly a third if Plaxico doesn't shoot himself in the leg.. I find it interesting that some of the fandom blames Mara for the Eli situation and yet were the same ones up in arms about Eli being benched. The same fans blame Gettleman for drafting Barkley but then act like someone is threatening their child when the trade/cut/let leave Barkley ideas get shared.
The issue here with ownership is one thing and one thing clearly- they spend too much time listening to fans and some players- keeping the Giants way wanting to keep the "player" to keep the fans happy.. Screw that.
But, the constant blame on ownership is bullshit, tired and quite frankly a bit childish..
There talent was obvious and he'd been emotionally productive; he rushed for more yards and TDs on fewer carries.
I hated the Barkley pick, but I'm not sure how helpful it is to play this 20-20 hindsight game. There's a lot of space in between the Giants bad moves and pining for players who greatly outplayed where the league slotted them in the draft.
The Giants would have been much better off taking Tom Brady instead of Ron Dayne, but a lot of well functioning front offices didn't take Brady anywhere near what he was worth in the end.
The better outcome literally happened the next pick. The Jets moved up to number 3 after trading with the Colts.
This isn't fantasy shit. The Jets were maneuvering to pick Darnold, and if the Giants were in the mix, it was a viable outcome to trade with the Jets. Gettleman proved that a year later when acquiring Williams.
RE: RE: The right pick at the time at #2 was Lamar
There talent was obvious and he'd been emotionally productive; he rushed for more yards and TDs on fewer carries.
I hated the Barkley pick, but I'm not sure how helpful it is to play this 20-20 hindsight game. There's a lot of space in between the Giants bad moves and pining for players who greatly outplayed where the league slotted them in the draft.
The Giants would have been much better off taking Tom Brady instead of Ron Dayne, but a lot of well functioning front offices didn't take Brady anywhere near what he was worth in the end.
It's not hindsight. I started a post saying they should draft Lamar a couple months before that draft.
What WAS clear was that picking Barkley was the worst option. I didn't think the Giants would be that stupid. The years since have been an education in what a poorly run, incompetent organization the Giants have become.
as others have said. It shouldn't have been that hard in a fugazi quarterback draft. If staying put, there was a good pass rusher and corner sitting there.
Gettleman clearly got the Thomas and Lawrence picks correct. But he also absolutely fell on his face with the Toney and Baker picks. The Barkley and Jones picks, while not the best use of resources, don't qualify for busts in my view.
So I'd say Gettleman was 2/6 on round one. That's his legacy to me. Because with 6 first round picks in four years, you can make a of break a team.
RE: RE: RE: The right pick at the time at #2 was Lamar
It's not hindsight. I started a post saying they should draft Lamar a couple months before that draft.
I'm talking hindsight for the people actually making decisions in the NFL. They all passed, including the "good" front offices.
I'm sure there were mock drafts out there with Lamar going #1 overall, but I'd bet dollars to donuts their author's overall drafting record is shit compared to the good pros.
Time will tell if the Giants FO is employing a sound long term method or if they're just succumbing to more reactionary bullshit behind the scenes.
here has reached epic proportions.. The same shit that one idiot here decries daily and then gets mentioned in write ups- fueling his idiocy.
This is the same ownership group that over saw two SB championships and possibly a third if Plaxico doesn't shoot himself in the leg.. I find it interesting that some of the fandom blames Mara for the Eli situation and yet were the same ones up in arms about Eli being benched. The same fans blame Gettleman for drafting Barkley but then act like someone is threatening their child when the trade/cut/let leave Barkley ideas get shared.
The issue here with ownership is one thing and one thing clearly- they spend too much time listening to fans and some players- keeping the Giants way wanting to keep the "player" to keep the fans happy.. Screw that.
But, the constant blame on ownership is bullshit, tired and quite frankly a bit childish..
Keep covering your eyes.
But you also contradict yourself. The issue with ownership is exactly what you listed. It’s why they stuck with Eli and took Saqoun, they were afraid of the fan revolt.
So we’re idiots for agreeing with you? What does that make you?
other forces were in play with the SB pick but still stupid not to take the phone call. Dave did better overall in the drafts then Reese who was disaster his last 7 years though not good enough considering the disaster he took over.
I think had he fixed the OL (DG's biggest failure) close to the 2005-2010 standard quickly the SB pick as well as Jones would have looked better.
Yes, the Giants ownership did an adequate job navigating the end of the Reese/Coughlin/Manning era, they did a an adequate job hiring coaches and management, and especially have a done a great job endorsing and assisting management selecting and keeping the right players.
The decade of ineptitude under multiple GMs and coaches is completely bad luck, and stems from no root cause.
RE: RE: Our only saving grace here is Gettleman would have likely
Yes, the Giants ownership did an adequate job navigating the end of the Reese/Coughlin/Manning era, they did a an adequate job hiring coaches and management, and especially have a done a great job endorsing and assisting management selecting and keeping the right players.
The decade of ineptitude under multiple GMs and coaches is completely bad luck, and stems from no root cause.
I think this is true, but I also believe that ended with the hiring of Schoen and Daboll. Unless you feel the hiring of them was itself incompetent.
Its hard for people to believe, understandably so, but this is Schoen's show.
I agree. I've noticed a lot of fans were all in on Schoen/Daboll after 2022 and mostly through the 2023 offseason. I can pull receipts, there was very little criticism of Schoen even after the handling of Jones & Barkley.
It seems many fans after 6-11 have reversed course and gone back to bashing Mara despite loving everything about the direction just a year ago. This regime deserves a chance and needs time.
Schoen/Daboll have already accomplished more than anything Gettleman has done.
I don’t know if that means to trade up(if possible), picking a sleeper, or some other plan?
We currently have no 2nd string QB, our 2nd string from last year is rumored to going FA to possibly the Jets or who cares where. DeVito is a flash in the pan.
Let’s sign or trade for somebody who is available from another team. So that we have a capable backup in case Jones’is not available for the early part of next season. Draft or project an available player to draft and see what happens.
I agree. I've noticed a lot of fans were all in on Schoen/Daboll after 2022 and mostly through the 2023 offseason. I can pull receipts, there was very little criticism of Schoen even after the handling of Jones & Barkley.
It seems many fans after 6-11 have reversed course and gone back to bashing Mara despite loving everything about the direction just a year ago. This regime deserves a chance and needs time.
Schoen/Daboll have already accomplished more than anything Gettleman has done.
Generally I agree with you. The problem is Mara is going to need a scapegoat after next year...
I'm optimistic Schoen will make an aggressive play for QB (trade up or select at 6). If the Giants come out of this offseason with taking no real action at QB, I'll lose all patience with everyone involved in this regime. Signing Minshew or Tannehill does not count as taking action to the position imo.
They NEED to come away with a legitimate QB prospect in April.
I want to see Schoen and Daboll identify a QB they can build with and go get them. I can accept the factors regarding the Jobes/Barkley decisions, but this is the offseason to get their QB.
I agree. I've noticed a lot of fans were all in on Schoen/Daboll after 2022 and mostly through the 2023 offseason. I can pull receipts, there was very little criticism of Schoen even after the handling of Jones & Barkley.
It seems many fans after 6-11 have reversed course and gone back to bashing Mara despite loving everything about the direction just a year ago. This regime deserves a chance and needs time.
Schoen/Daboll have already accomplished more than anything Gettleman has done.
Generally I agree with you. The problem is Mara is going to need a scapegoat after next year...
I think there are only two explanations for the last decade.
1) John Mara is uniquely bad at hiring people
2) John Mara creates an atmosphere where it is difficult to succeed
I pray it's number one, because given enough swings, they'll hit.
As others have said, he, John Mara, and others in the FO were stupidly convinced they could make another run with Eli. Barkley was a way to make that happen, although I do think given how locked in DG was on Barkley, that he would have drafted him anyway.
Cleveland apparently offered both their second round picks to move from #4 to #2 to take Barkley. Denver would have offered a lot more, and the Giants could have taken Josh Allen at #6, who Shurmur wanted.
Gettleman also made a ton of other mistakes:
(1) He never fixed the OL. He drafted Will Hernandez instead of Braden Smith, and drafted Matt Peart and Shane Lemieux. He gave Solder a ridiculous contract, and signed and then quickly cut Patrick Omameh.
(2) He wasted a ton of draft picks on CBs who never panned out, including trading up into the first round for DeAndre Baker, a guy who had known character problems. His constant misses meant that our two starting CBs were expensive FAs, Jackson and Bradberry.
(3) He drafted Kadarius Toney, although that was possibly at least partially at the urging or insistence of Judge.
(4) He traded B.J. Hill and a seventh round pick for Billy Price.
(5) He drafted Kyle Lauletta, a weak-armed QB who had no chance of succeeding Eli, and did so with Davis Webb still on the roster.
(6) He traded fourth and sixth round picks for Alec Ogletree and a seventh round pick.
(7) He signed Jonathan Stewart and Golden Tate to ridiculous contracts.
McAdoo I believe is out of the NFL. I think Shurmur was with Colorado last year, but he's been out of the NFL since Denver. Judge was a disaster at the end.
I think John Mara is VERY bad at hiring people. I don't think he's Tepper, but I think he meddles towards the QB position, but not many owners don't meddle with QB.
You were exactly right about the 5th year option and Jones. I remember pushing back on it, but your point was always Jones was going to get at least 2 years anyway. Schoen should have traded him in 2022, but picking up the option would have been a much better alternative to what we have now.
As others have said, he, John Mara, and others in the FO were stupidly convinced they could make another run with Eli. Barkley was a way to make that happen, although I do think given how locked in DG was on Barkley, that he would have drafted him anyway.
Cleveland apparently offered both their second round picks to move from #4 to #2 to take Barkley. Denver would have offered a lot more, and the Giants could have taken Josh Allen at #6, who Shurmur wanted.
Gettleman also made a ton of other mistakes:
(1) He never fixed the OL. He drafted Will Hernandez instead of Braden Smith, and drafted Matt Peart and Shane Lemieux. He gave Solder a ridiculous contract, and signed and then quickly cut Patrick Omameh.
(2) He wasted a ton of draft picks on CBs who never panned out, including trading up into the first round for DeAndre Baker, a guy who had known character problems. His constant misses meant that our two starting CBs were expensive FAs, Jackson and Bradberry.
(3) He drafted Kadarius Toney, although that was possibly at least partially at the urging or insistence of Judge.
(4) He traded B.J. Hill and a seventh round pick for Billy Price.
(5) He drafted Kyle Lauletta, a weak-armed QB who had no chance of succeeding Eli, and did so with Davis Webb still on the roster.
(6) He traded fourth and sixth round picks for Alec Ogletree and a seventh round pick.
(7) He signed Jonathan Stewart and Golden Tate to ridiculous contracts.
I mean, why stop there?
Signing Kyle Rudolph to a $6 million contract ($4.5 million guaranteed) knowing he was injured.
Signing Galladay to a monster deal despite no other suitors, and doctors warning about Galladay's health after the physical.
Structuring Adoree Jackson's contract so that it all buyt ensured Bradberry would need to be cut in 2022 (unless the Giants wanted to have over $40 million cap hit for 2 CBs)
Signing 30 year old Logan Ryan to a $30 million contract extension ($20 million guaranteed).
As others have said, he, John Mara, and others in the FO were stupidly convinced they could make another run with Eli. Barkley was a way to make that happen, although I do think given how locked in DG was on Barkley, that he would have drafted him anyway.
Cleveland apparently offered both their second round picks to move from #4 to #2 to take Barkley. Denver would have offered a lot more, and the Giants could have taken Josh Allen at #6, who Shurmur wanted.
Gettleman also made a ton of other mistakes:
(1) He never fixed the OL. He drafted Will Hernandez instead of Braden Smith, and drafted Matt Peart and Shane Lemieux. He gave Solder a ridiculous contract, and signed and then quickly cut Patrick Omameh.
(2) He wasted a ton of draft picks on CBs who never panned out, including trading up into the first round for DeAndre Baker, a guy who had known character problems. His constant misses meant that our two starting CBs were expensive FAs, Jackson and Bradberry.
(3) He drafted Kadarius Toney, although that was possibly at least partially at the urging or insistence of Judge.
(4) He traded B.J. Hill and a seventh round pick for Billy Price.
(5) He drafted Kyle Lauletta, a weak-armed QB who had no chance of succeeding Eli, and did so with Davis Webb still on the roster.
(6) He traded fourth and sixth round picks for Alec Ogletree and a seventh round pick.
(7) He signed Jonathan Stewart and Golden Tate to ridiculous contracts.
I mean, why stop there?
Signing Kyle Rudolph to a $6 million contract ($4.5 million guaranteed) knowing he was injured.
Signing Galladay to a monster deal despite no other suitors, and doctors warning about Galladay's health after the physical.
Structuring Adoree Jackson's contract so that it all buyt ensured Bradberry would need to be cut in 2022 (unless the Giants wanted to have over $40 million cap hit for 2 CBs)
Signing 30 year old Logan Ryan to a $30 million contract extension ($20 million guaranteed).
Great points, and I can't believe I forgot Golladay. I guess I was just running out of interest in the whole depressing subject.
I don’t know if that means to trade up(if possible), picking a sleeper, or some other plan?
We currently have no 2nd string QB, our 2nd string from last year is rumored to going FA to possibly the Jets or who cares where. DeVito is a flash in the pan.
Let’s sign or trade for somebody who is available from another team. So that we have a capable backup in case Jones’is not available for the early part of next season. Draft or project an available player to draft and see what happens.
Sean, I think the end of Manning's career was a formative and damaging time for Mara. I believe it's scarred him and paints many of his decisions.
I think he looks at that time and views his actions as having wasted the end of Manning's career. From 2018 or before, the Giants have operated in the service of Mara's favorite players. We're going to get one more with Manning, we're going to fix this for Jones, Barkley is the face of the franchise.
This is the ghost all coaches and management have to navigate.
I have more faith in Daboll than Schoen. But, Schoen has been better than Gettleman. If Gettleman were here, I have no doubt that the Jones contract would have been more rich and Barkley would be locked up long term.
Schoen has navigated the draft nicely, and he got nice returns for Toney and Williams. All that said, this offseason is his big test.
when a accomplished offensive coach is the first scapegoat and then a most likely future HOF HC is next on the chopping block. Meanwhile Ross is promoted twice.
When it was clear they were in over their head Mara failed to act decisively understanding the root cause of the problems. The consequence was it ruined the back end of Eli's career. Most of the issues were rooted in poor drafts. The evidence is the 2011-17 drafts. Eli was plenty capable for all those years. Some of Mara's choices after were made due to what had already played out leading to more problems.
Schoen has navigated the draft nicely, and he got nice returns for Toney and Williams. All that said, this offseason is his big test.
I also think this season is huge for the Schoen draft picks. Neal, McFadden, JMS, Thibs, Banks, Flott, Hyatt, etc. all have great opportunities to cement their place.
I have more faith in Daboll than Schoen. But, Schoen has been better than Gettleman. If Gettleman were here, I have no doubt that the Jones contract would have been more rich and Barkley would be locked up long term.
Schoen has navigated the draft nicely, and he got nice returns for Toney and Williams. All that said, this offseason is his big test.
Jones and Barkley are still here. The OL is still a massive issue. The QB position is still a massive issue. And it's way too early to say with any certainty his drafts are hits.
Outside of Okereke, are we feeling great about his management of free agency?
Wins for Schoen are Okereke, Pinnock, and the Lawrence extension, the Slayton contract. The Thomas extension is TBD. Thomas himself admitted a motivating factor in getting the deal done was his injury history.
Big misses include Glowinksi, Waller, and the Jones contract. Worth mentioning is the Campbell miss.
I always enjoy these rehashes, especially regarding stuff that's been rehashed dozens of times before, and especially when it doesn't appear as if any of the rehashers have anything remotely resembling first-hand knowledge or even evidence of the subject. Myself, I have no idea what went down in the 2018 draft, but several things just don't add up re the whole story.
First, knowing what I know about the Giants organizational structure I don't believe that any Giants GM would have the authority to do what Gettleman supposedly did. At worst he would have had to have cleared any dealings with the second pick overall with ownership. Second, that's just not how trades work in the NFL. In particular, it is highly unlikely that Elway/Denver would have 'just' called when the Giants got on the clock. Those kind of deals are almost always discussed at length prior to the draft. Third, it also strikes me as highly unlikely that any NFL GM would just blow off another GM like that, especially one as highly regarded around the league as Elway. Maybe they don't want to make that particular deal but there may come a time later on that they do want to deal with that team and burning bridges like that would be stupid. And even if DG tried that I would be shocked if Mara who was big on decorum and respect across the NFL would have tolerated it. I also asked my self the question if DG refused to take Elway's calls how would he know what he was calling about.
My guess is that the Giants did talk with both Cleveland and Denver prior to the draft, but wanted a future #1 as part of the deal and they weren't getting that.
The story's author kind of lost me a bit too when at the end of the article he mentions the Giants could have taken Quentin Nelson because their OL was so bad having given up 31 sacks the previous year. Truth is 31 sacks isn't all that bad; the Giants had 27 in 2007 and 28 in 2011. Sounds to me more like telling the choir what it wants to hear.
RE: Reese was fired BECAUSE Gettleman was available
Accorsi was consulting not because they wanted him to tell them to hire but to give them cover for who they were going to hire
On your second point, anyone with an IQ above 80 knew why Accorsi was hired. There was no "cover". It was the lamest, most fake "search" ever conducted. And was another reminder how predictable Mara is.
Your first point is probably right, but Eli-Gate accelerated that move, too...
RE: I still can’t believe that Kyle Rudolph episode actually happened
Gettleman looked smarter than everyone after the rookie season but to Eric's point the team was crumbling around him.
No he didn't. It was the exact opposite. He said he was going to win. You don't keep Eli and then have the #2 pick proclaiming your team is not in rebuild then go 5-11.
Many of us knew the team should have been in rebuild instead fo retool mode. But The Moronic Proud Peacock was too busy trying to tell everyone to telling us all about "his resume" instead of facing reality.
I think this sums up Gettleman's tenure with the Giants. He was so dead set on one move (a bad one at that, considering taking a RB that high in the draft is rarely the right move) that he refused to look at any other potential options. Makes you question his other whiffs in the draft and free agency and wonder if he was so narrow-minded that he looked away from other potential options. We're so lucky to have ended up with Dex and AT. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut
RE: RE: RE: The right pick at the time at #2 was Lamar
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We are in much better hands with Schoen.
Gettleman said it himself, this not the first time a GM has fallen in love with a player and locked in.
(See Ditka and Ricky Williams)
You gotta have conviction but it can cost you big time if you are wrong.
That mistake reminds be of when the Giants had no plan for the 96 draft If the first five picks of that draft didn’t go as planned.
Moron GM that I cannot believe got anybody's support after that first year on the job.
Fess up, who defended him on here?
I’m aware, but I don’t recall this specific of a story with the broncos willing to give up the house being reported
Moron GM that I cannot believe got anybody's support after that first year on the job.
Fess up, who defended him on here?
Baghdad Bob, I mean Ryan tried to pat him on the back last year.
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Gettleman bragged about this in his post-draft press conference. It's public knowledge.
I’m aware, but I don’t recall this specific of a story with the broncos willing to give up the house being reported
Cleveland offered him a deal for the #2 pick but he turned it down. It was to move back to #4 and pick up extra second round picks but since Gettleman would lose Saquon the answer was no.
Keep in mind, his selection was preordained the moment Mara hired Accorsi as "consultant" on the GM "search."
It was so laughably transparent at the time that even the most naive among us knew the outcome.
This is why I shake my head when some claim ownership hasn't been the problem.
I thought they'd be getting an Adrian Peterson in his prime-type RB, who would basically single-handedly keep you in playoff contention every year.
No.
Keep in mind, his selection was preordained the moment Mara hired Accorsi as "consultant" on the GM "search."
It was so laughably transparent at the time that even the most naive among us knew the outcome.
This is why I shake my head when some claim ownership hasn't been the problem.
At the time of his hire you could make a strong case for Gettleman. None of us could have envisioned how much of a disaster it would have been here.
I thought they'd be getting an Adrian Peterson in his prime-type RB, who would basically single-handedly keep you in playoff contention every year.
No.
He was amazing his rookie season. It was Eric Dickerson-like.
However, Maras kept thinking they could make another run with Eli Manning. This might have been possible if they had an offensive line and defense, but they had neither. So them adding the "luxury" of a RB when they had nothing else never made sense.
But it made sense to ownership for some reason.
The Panthers fired Gettleman.
Still disgusts me how inept he and his staff were at evaluating talent. IMO, this falls on ownreship.
Still disgusts me how inept he and his staff were at evaluating talent. IMO, this falls on ownreship.
The scouts merely provide the input. The decisions were made by the GM and his director of college scouting with more input from the head coach.
Keep in mind, his selection was preordained the moment Mara hired Accorsi as "consultant" on the GM "search."
It was so laughably transparent at the time that even the most naive among us knew the outcome.
This is why I shake my head when some claim ownership hasn't been the problem.
Yup. Or people that try to say Abrams was never a real candidate for the job after Gettleman and won’t be if Schoen gets fired.
John Mara’s incompetence going back to his reaction to the Eli benching have put this team into a terrible position.
Odell wore out his welcome but he was right, they needed better QB play. Obviously like Thibs, he could have went about it in a much better way but both players were right. The organization chose to instead trade Odell, after letting Gettleman sign him because of feelings.
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In comment 16379262 Eric from BBI said:
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Gettleman bragged about this in his post-draft press conference. It's public knowledge.
I’m aware, but I don’t recall this specific of a story with the broncos willing to give up the house being reported
Cleveland offered him a deal for the #2 pick but he turned it down. It was to move back to #4 and pick up extra second round picks but since Gettleman would lose Saquon the answer was no.
Who they be trading up for? Cleveland took their QB in Mayfield. It was no surprise the Jets were taking Darnold and NYG taking SB, So they would probably be trading for SB. Getts wasn't doing that for extra for 2 second rounders. Right or wrong, it wasn't going to happen. He saw Barkley as a "generational talent."
He also said he wanted out of NY. They obliged him.
And just last week Odell was saying how the Giants tried to hurt him by trading him away!
What a fucking idiot.
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screwed up the deal too.
Moron GM that I cannot believe got anybody's support after that first year on the job.
Fess up, who defended him on here?
Baghdad Bob, I mean Ryan tried to pat him on the back last year.
That Fat man poster who literally yelled and cursed at everyone when you told him that Getts was awful. He was the #1 fan.
The Panthers fired Gettleman.
He was fired for making non sentimental decisions and being ruthless. The players hated him, but he cleaned up the cap.
The Giants didn't get that version of Gettleman. My point is his tenure at the Panthers was nowhere near as bad as it was here. You could argue the Giants needed that type of GM at the time.
It was a lazy, bad hire. But I never thought it would be this bad.
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His lazy scouting department that only fell in love and drafted players from the senior bowl.
Still disgusts me how inept he and his staff were at evaluating talent. IMO, this falls on ownreship.
The scouts merely provide the input. The decisions were made by the GM and his director of college scouting with more input from the head coach.
To be more specific, it always appeared the decisions were made largely from the senior bowls during his regime. Would love to see too some stats
He also said he wanted out of NY. They obliged him.
And just last week Odell was saying how the Giants tried to hurt him by trading him away!
What a fucking idiot.
Don’t disagree, but they couldn’t have went about it in a worse way. Much like Dave turning down trade offers just to let Collins walk.
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A strong case?
The Panthers fired Gettleman.
He was fired for making non sentimental decisions and being ruthless. The players hated him, but he cleaned up the cap.
The Giants didn't get that version of Gettleman. My point is his tenure at the Panthers was nowhere near as bad as it was here. You could argue the Giants needed that type of GM at the time.
It was a lazy, bad hire. But I never thought it would be this bad.
If the Giants got that version, they’d probably have Josh Allen or Lamar. But part of getting the job was agreeing with John they could still win with Eli.
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In comment 16379264 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16379262 Eric from BBI said:
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Gettleman bragged about this in his post-draft press conference. It's public knowledge.
I’m aware, but I don’t recall this specific of a story with the broncos willing to give up the house being reported
Cleveland offered him a deal for the #2 pick but he turned it down. It was to move back to #4 and pick up extra second round picks but since Gettleman would lose Saquon the answer was no.
Who they be trading up for? Cleveland took their QB in Mayfield. It was no surprise the Jets were taking Darnold and NYG taking SB, So they would probably be trading for SB. Getts wasn't doing that for extra for 2 second rounders. Right or wrong, it wasn't going to happen. He saw Barkley as a "generational talent."
We had the #2 pick. They would have moved up in front of the Jets for Darnold.
We could have then run the correct player in Quenton Nelson. The real gold jacket player.
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I actually didn't like him as much as everyone else in college, but figured I was wrong.
I thought they'd be getting an Adrian Peterson in his prime-type RB, who would basically single-handedly keep you in playoff contention every year.
No.
He was amazing his rookie season. It was Eric Dickerson-like.
However, Maras kept thinking they could make another run with Eli Manning. This might have been possible if they had an offensive line and defense, but they had neither. So them adding the "luxury" of a RB when they had nothing else never made sense.
But it made sense to ownership for some reason.
I'm not sure what people don't get about this. Gettleman was hired because he told ownership what they wanted to hear - that this team could win with Eli. The fact that Gettleman could stand up and say he wouldn't explore trade offers for 2 - and then pick a QB at 6 the next year anyway - shows that ownership was driving decision-making.
They basically went with the runner up to Jerry Reese.
When bw in dc laments about "the Giant way", this is what he is referring to.
The scar tissue from this is what affects people like me who still fear ownership is pulling too many strings. They may not be, but this is what influences our thinking.
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I actually didn't like him as much as everyone else in college, but figured I was wrong.
I thought they'd be getting an Adrian Peterson in his prime-type RB, who would basically single-handedly keep you in playoff contention every year.
No.
He was amazing his rookie season. It was Eric Dickerson-like.
However, Maras kept thinking they could make another run with Eli Manning. This might have been possible if they had an offensive line and defense, but they had neither. So them adding the "luxury" of a RB when they had nothing else never made sense.
But it made sense to ownership for some reason.
Gettleman looked smarter than everyone after the rookie season but to Eric's point the team was crumbling around him.
Could Barkley be what McCaffrey brings to a championship roster probably and Carolina did the same thing with McCaffrey(over Drafted) but they were smart enough to trade him to a contender when they had the chance.
For Barkley and the Giants sake it probably better to let him walk and catch on with a contender. I like him and definitely wanted to see him succeed her but it's over.
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In comment 16379264 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16379262 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Gettleman bragged about this in his post-draft press conference. It's public knowledge.
I’m aware, but I don’t recall this specific of a story with the broncos willing to give up the house being reported
Cleveland offered him a deal for the #2 pick but he turned it down. It was to move back to #4 and pick up extra second round picks but since Gettleman would lose Saquon the answer was no.
Who they be trading up for? Cleveland took their QB in Mayfield. It was no surprise the Jets were taking Darnold and NYG taking SB, So they would probably be trading for SB. Getts wasn't doing that for extra for 2 second rounders. Right or wrong, it wasn't going to happen. He saw Barkley as a "generational talent."
Cleveland wanted both Mayfield and Barkley which is why the answer was no.
And it wasn't right or wrong, it was just clearly wrong. The team roster was weak and need to upgrade everywhere but since DG missed that too, not making this deal was a double hit.
They basically went with the runner up to Jerry Reese.
When bw in dc laments about "the Giant way", this is what he is referring to.
The scar tissue from this is what affects people like me who still fear ownership is pulling too many strings. They may not be, but this is what influences our thinking.
I agree. But in the more simple sense, you nailed it above. They've had crappy QB play since 2017. We can discuss all the reasons why the QB play has been bad, but this franchise is allergic to trying to improve the QB position. They don't even try.
They have not drafted a QB since 2019. Get a competent QB and this thing can turn around fast even though many fans refuse to accept that.
Link - ( New Window )
I'm not sure what people don't get about this. Gettleman was hired because he told ownership what they wanted to hear - that this team could win with Eli. The fact that Gettleman could stand up and say he wouldn't explore trade offers for 2 - and then pick a QB at 6 the next year anyway - shows that ownership was driving decision-making.
Bingo. It’s the pivots, but when it’s too late. Trying to still win with Eli only to replace him in September the following year. Signing Odell and then trading him. Getting rid of Collins, but after turning down trade offers for him. Cutting Zeitler, a position of weakness, to bring in a second tight end. The Solder panic signing. The Ogletree over pay.
Better add another generation to the lament!
(grin)
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I'm not sure what people don't get about this. Gettleman was hired because he told ownership what they wanted to hear - that this team could win with Eli. The fact that Gettleman could stand up and say he wouldn't explore trade offers for 2 - and then pick a QB at 6 the next year anyway - shows that ownership was driving decision-making.
Bingo. It’s the pivots, but when it’s too late. Trying to still win with Eli only to replace him in September the following year. Signing Odell and then trading him. Getting rid of Collins, but after turning down trade offers for him. Cutting Zeitler, a position of weakness, to bring in a second tight end. The Solder panic signing. The Ogletree over pay.
How dare you bring up the Ogletree trade? I just winced.
This.
They came to the conclusion that the problem was Coughlin and kept everyone else.
Then when they realized they had a GM/scouting director problem, and that they had replaced Coughlin with the wrong man. Gettleman/ownership then had two more swings had two more swings and misses at HC (Shurmur and Judge).
Some of us thought they should clean house in 2020 like they supposedly did in 2022, given the early warning signs on Gettleman and him nearing retirement age.
In a nutshell, they simply have wasted years here... it's why the "rebuilding" process never seems to end. They really never started because they kept screwing it up.
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A strong case?
The Panthers fired Gettleman.
He was fired for making non sentimental decisions and being ruthless. The players hated him, but he cleaned up the cap.
The Giants didn't get that version of Gettleman. My point is his tenure at the Panthers was nowhere near as bad as it was here. You could argue the Giants needed that type of GM at the time.
It was a lazy, bad hire. But I never thought it would be this bad.
The short list for the 2018 GM search is the problem. Gettleman turned out to be a huge mistake — but he had been the GM of a talented team, so on the basis of the resume he was a reasonable hire. But the short list was embarrassing and it showed how Mara was completely out of his depth and didn’t have the know-how to run an organization like the Giants.
There was a "list" for public consumption.
Gettleman was hired as soon as Reese was fired. You could feel it.
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I'm not sure what people don't get about this. Gettleman was hired because he told ownership what they wanted to hear - that this team could win with Eli. The fact that Gettleman could stand up and say he wouldn't explore trade offers for 2 - and then pick a QB at 6 the next year anyway - shows that ownership was driving decision-making.
Bingo. It’s the pivots, but when it’s too late. Trying to still win with Eli only to replace him in September the following year. Signing Odell and then trading him. Getting rid of Collins, but after turning down trade offers for him. Cutting Zeitler, a position of weakness, to bring in a second tight end. The Solder panic signing. The Ogletree over pay.
The list of awful decisions in Gettleman's first couple offseasons is endless. It was plainly obvious at the time he didn't know what he was doing.
The best part though was the remarks he made publicly to anyone that doubted his judgment. One of the beats listed out DG's greatest hit lines a few years back. Very funny.
This is a big offseason for Schoen to make a bigger imprint on what his plan with Daboll is. You don’t get forever as GM and the clock is ticking.
But he got the pick right. Injuries/cost were the reason the thought process was wrong, and predicted by many.
Many here wanted Darnold (another thread on the same topic claimed that's who Denver wanted to trade up for), and some wanted Rosen. The thought process was right, but the pick would have been wrong.
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I'm not sure what people don't get about this. Gettleman was hired because he told ownership what they wanted to hear - that this team could win with Eli. The fact that Gettleman could stand up and say he wouldn't explore trade offers for 2 - and then pick a QB at 6 the next year anyway - shows that ownership was driving decision-making.
Bingo. It’s the pivots, but when it’s too late. Trying to still win with Eli only to replace him in September the following year. Signing Odell and then trading him. Getting rid of Collins, but after turning down trade offers for him. Cutting Zeitler, a position of weakness, to bring in a second tight end. The Solder panic signing. The Ogletree over pay.
Don’t forget trading JPP - who needs him? Because he was bad for culture. Sure….
There was a "list" for public consumption.
Gettleman was hired as soon as Reese was fired. You could feel it.
Gettleman was hired the day he was fired by Carolina. You just knew he'd be the next GM at some point.
But he got the pick right. Injuries/cost were the reason the thought process was wrong, and predicted by many.
Many here wanted Darnold (another thread on the same topic claimed that's who Denver wanted to trade up for), and some wanted Rosen. The thought process was right, but the pick would have been wrong.
No the pick wasn't right. Nelson was the right pick.
The team needed to be gutted. They could have leveraged the #2 pick into something a lot more than a RB.
If they like you, you can do whatever you want.
The picks after the 1st round were so horrendous it kind of defies comprehension.
The team needed to be gutted. They could have leveraged the #2 pick into something a lot more than a RB.
BTW, there were a lot of people at the time on this site saying this is what the team should have done. Some wanted a QB, but others were saying to trade down. They were right.
There was a "list" for public consumption.
Gettleman was hired as soon as Reese was fired. You could feel it.
The same can be said about Schoen. It was a double edged sword. They did their homework on Schoen while Gettleman was still here. The good news is that they did their homework. The bad news is that it seemed predetermined that he was the hire and no other candidate was really a consideration. It'll be very interesting to see how Adam Peters does in Washington as a comparison.
The team needed to be gutted. They could have leveraged the #2 pick into something a lot more than a RB.
Of course. And while they also needed a RB, they could have loaded up on players all around the roster with a trade AND still added a very good RB on Day 2.
Complete miss.
The team needed to be gutted. They could have leveraged the #2 pick into something a lot more than a RB.
Yep. But that Philly game in December of 2017! (Which they lost)
But for every bad draft pick, I'll give you a Nate Solder or Kenny Golladay (as well as letting the few decent players the Giants did draft walk in free agency).
Playing it safe will just likely get everyone fired in a year imo.
Both were highly regarded around the NFL and were receiving interest from many other teams.
Both had no connections to the Giants, something the team had not done since they were forced by the Commissioner to hire George Young.
I’m still of the opinion that Tisch is why the Giants broke tendancy and hired a GM from outside the Giants ‘family.’
Playing it safe will just likely get everyone fired in a year imo.
Well, I wrote an entire article on this, with respect to the QB position. If they decide to tie their fate to Daniel Jones, I doubt they will be here in January 2025.
At least we'll have something to talk about.
But for every bad draft pick, I'll give you a Nate Solder or Kenny Golladay (as well as letting the few decent players the Giants did draft walk in free agency).
Agreed. It’s where I have hope and if he makes tougher decisions with roster on QB, RB starting this off-season. I at least see some semblance of a deep thought process with the roster with Schoen in how talents fit, where the risk lies both short and long term.
Gettlemans thinking or perspective at how to see a player in isolation and fit in a roster is like it was out of the 1950s.
If they pass on a QB, Schoen & Daboll had better draft/develop 3 or 4 rookies that become stars.
Otherwise, the clock is going to run out on both.
Yup.
He also said he wanted out of NY. They obliged him.
And just last week Odell was saying how the Giants tried to hurt him by trading him away!
What a fucking idiot.
He is trying to rewrite history to make himself the victim. Fuck Odell.
These are the possible scenarios...
(1) They sign/trade for a veteran QB who can compete for the starting job. If they do this before the draft (a must if you're talking about a free agent since free agency starts in March), then that may telegraph what they are thinking.
(2) They trade up, trade down, or stand pat in the first round and draft a QB who is "the future." (this includes possibly trading into the end of the first round).
With respect to point #2, if the three guys who are CURRENTLY viewed as the top guys are gone, they actually may have someone higher on their draft board than pundits and fans. They may be right, they may be wrong, but they could draft someone who many will consider a "reach".
The scenario you suggest is the top guys are gone (possible) and there is no one else in the draft that is going to "save the franchise" (possible). If that happens, and Jones doesn't have a miraculous turnaround in his sixth season (seems unlikely), they may be screwed regardless.
I still come back to this one nagging point... there just didn't seem to be any discernible difference between Daniel Jones and Tyrod Taylor. So what the heck are we paying for?
Indeed was very weird. Even after he gave the hot dogs, pretzels, bag of dough comments about offers being made.
He very well may not be… but would it be a surprise?
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Mara failed twice at least. Didn't fire Reese when he fired TC. And then relied on Accorsi, who had been out if the meager for forever, to advise on DG. And you could add not fire DG. Folks think he’s making personnel choices. That’s not the issue. It’s bigger than that.
This.
They came to the conclusion that the problem was Coughlin and kept everyone else.
Then when they realized they had a GM/scouting director problem, and that they had replaced Coughlin with the wrong man. Gettleman/ownership then had two more swings had two more swings and misses at HC (Shurmur and Judge).
Some of us thought they should clean house in 2020 like they supposedly did in 2022, given the early warning signs on Gettleman and him nearing retirement age.
In a nutshell, they simply have wasted years here... it's why the "rebuilding" process never seems to end. They really never started because they kept screwing it up.
This.
The "leadership" group of the Giants has made bad decision after incompetent decision for years, if not decades. Hire actual football people, let them do what needs to be done, and stay the hell out of it. Short-term pain but long-term gain.
The Gettlemen hire was a lot like the Judge hire. They both said the right things, things we all wanted to hear, but nothing to back it up.
I always wonder about people who do this. Do they actually believe it themselves? Do they change their own memories to suit their narcism? Or do they know they are lying?
No, this isn't correct. The Broncos were at #5.
Cleveland was at #4 and would have taken Barkley since they had already offered DG a deal to move into their #2 spot to draft him but he said no. Cleveland actually winds up drafting CB Denzel Ward at #4 who has been a superstar.
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Is that the Broncos at 4 wanted to trade up to 2 to select Darnold in front of the Jets. The Jets were next on the clock and would have definitely taken either Rosen or Josh Allen at 3 meaning that Gettleman STILL could have landed Barkley at 4 while accumulating a big haul to address other holes but he didn't because he refused to pick up the phone. If I were the owners I would have demanded he listen to offers or else he would be fired.
No, this isn't correct. The Broncos were at #5.
Cleveland was at #4 and would have taken Barkley since they had already offered DG a deal to move into their #2 spot to draft him but he said no. Cleveland actually winds up drafting CB Denzel Ward at #4 who has been a superstar.
I remember reading that the Giants FO, minus Gettleman, wanted to draft Chubb or Nelson at 2. Had they moved down to 5, sorry for the error btw, they could have landed either of them which would have been a better option than Barkley.
And now hearing that Denver was willing to offer the house to move up to 2. First, you absolutely have to listen to them and consider the offer. As Jerry Reese once said (when asked about trading Shockey), "everyone has a trade price."
If you choose not to take the Denver trade, you leak that you're negotiating with them and that they are trying to get up. That entices the Jets to want to move up. You can even call them and tell them you're close to a deal with Denver, but you'd consider trading down to 3rd instead if they're interested.
Picking Barkley is not malpractice. But not listening to the other options or trying to be creative about it is 100%. It's lazy too; he identified the player he wanted and then stopped working.
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In comment 16379352 Jay on the Island said:
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Is that the Broncos at 4 wanted to trade up to 2 to select Darnold in front of the Jets. The Jets were next on the clock and would have definitely taken either Rosen or Josh Allen at 3 meaning that Gettleman STILL could have landed Barkley at 4 while accumulating a big haul to address other holes but he didn't because he refused to pick up the phone. If I were the owners I would have demanded he listen to offers or else he would be fired.
No, this isn't correct. The Broncos were at #5.
Cleveland was at #4 and would have taken Barkley since they had already offered DG a deal to move into their #2 spot to draft him but he said no. Cleveland actually winds up drafting CB Denzel Ward at #4 who has been a superstar.
I remember reading that the Giants FO, minus Gettleman, wanted to draft Chubb or Nelson at 2. Had they moved down to 5, sorry for the error btw, they could have landed either of them which would have been a better option than Barkley.
No worries Jay. And I think you are correct, if Barkley went overall #1 and they didn't move the Giants were rumored to taking Bradley Chubb at the #2 spot.
We are in much better hands with Schoen.
Cleveland would have drafted Saquon.
That doesn't mean Gettleman shouldn't have traded the pick. Both Denver and Cleveland wanted #2 overall. He could have played Denver and Cleveland against each other FFS.
He fired Coughlin because that's what you do when a team struggles. But he kept 90% of the coaching staff intact, so he might as well have kept Coughlin. (Lord knows that Tom would have done well with all the talent the team brought in that offseason.)
He was on board with McAdoo's asinine plan to treat games like they were in the preseason, and only changed course when it blew up in his face. McAdoo and Reese got fired as a PR decision, not an attempt to fix things.
His best move would be to hope he finally got something right with Schoen and remove himself from any football decision. Let the GM you hired to fix the team try to fix the team.
I didn't know what to think about Gettleman prior to that draft. When we took Barkley my first words were "fucking assholes". I knew we were screwed.
Gettleman was a disgusting slob, but he was a symptom. The disease is the Maras, who are bad owners.
👍
I didn't know what to think about Gettleman prior to that draft. When we took Barkley my first words were "fucking assholes". I knew we were screwed.
Gettleman was a disgusting slob, but he was a symptom. The disease is the Maras, who are bad owners.
*The talent... *extremely productive
*More yards on fewer carries.
Might be time for a new phone.
This is the same ownership group that over saw two SB championships and possibly a third if Plaxico doesn't shoot himself in the leg.. I find it interesting that some of the fandom blames Mara for the Eli situation and yet were the same ones up in arms about Eli being benched. The same fans blame Gettleman for drafting Barkley but then act like someone is threatening their child when the trade/cut/let leave Barkley ideas get shared.
The issue here with ownership is one thing and one thing clearly- they spend too much time listening to fans and some players- keeping the Giants way wanting to keep the "player" to keep the fans happy.. Screw that.
But, the constant blame on ownership is bullshit, tired and quite frankly a bit childish..
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There talent was obvious and he'd been emotionally productive; he rushed for more yards and TDs on fewer carries.
I didn't know what to think about Gettleman prior to that draft. When we took Barkley my first words were "fucking assholes". I knew we were screwed.
Gettleman was a disgusting slob, but he was a symptom. The disease is the Maras, who are bad owners.
*The talent... *extremely productive
*More yards on fewer carries.
Might be time for a new phone.
Dumb dumb dumb post.. All 32 teams passed in Lamar originally.. Dumbass..
This is the same ownership group that over saw two SB championships and possibly a third if Plaxico doesn't shoot himself in the leg.. I find it interesting that some of the fandom blames Mara for the Eli situation and yet were the same ones up in arms about Eli being benched. The same fans blame Gettleman for drafting Barkley but then act like someone is threatening their child when the trade/cut/let leave Barkley ideas get shared.
The issue here with ownership is one thing and one thing clearly- they spend too much time listening to fans and some players- keeping the Giants way wanting to keep the "player" to keep the fans happy.. Screw that.
But, the constant blame on ownership is bullshit, tired and quite frankly a bit childish..
Leader in clubhouse for Post of the Day
I hated the Barkley pick, but I'm not sure how helpful it is to play this 20-20 hindsight game. There's a lot of space in between the Giants bad moves and pining for players who greatly outplayed where the league slotted them in the draft.
The Giants would have been much better off taking Tom Brady instead of Ron Dayne, but a lot of well functioning front offices didn't take Brady anywhere near what he was worth in the end.
This isn't fantasy shit. The Jets were maneuvering to pick Darnold, and if the Giants were in the mix, it was a viable outcome to trade with the Jets. Gettleman proved that a year later when acquiring Williams.
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There talent was obvious and he'd been emotionally productive; he rushed for more yards and TDs on fewer carries.
I hated the Barkley pick, but I'm not sure how helpful it is to play this 20-20 hindsight game. There's a lot of space in between the Giants bad moves and pining for players who greatly outplayed where the league slotted them in the draft.
The Giants would have been much better off taking Tom Brady instead of Ron Dayne, but a lot of well functioning front offices didn't take Brady anywhere near what he was worth in the end.
It's not hindsight. I started a post saying they should draft Lamar a couple months before that draft.
What WAS clear was that picking Barkley was the worst option. I didn't think the Giants would be that stupid. The years since have been an education in what a poorly run, incompetent organization the Giants have become.
So I'd say Gettleman was 2/6 on round one. That's his legacy to me. Because with 6 first round picks in four years, you can make a of break a team.
I'm talking hindsight for the people actually making decisions in the NFL. They all passed, including the "good" front offices.
I'm sure there were mock drafts out there with Lamar going #1 overall, but I'd bet dollars to donuts their author's overall drafting record is shit compared to the good pros.
Time will tell if the Giants FO is employing a sound long term method or if they're just succumbing to more reactionary bullshit behind the scenes.
This is the same ownership group that over saw two SB championships and possibly a third if Plaxico doesn't shoot himself in the leg.. I find it interesting that some of the fandom blames Mara for the Eli situation and yet were the same ones up in arms about Eli being benched. The same fans blame Gettleman for drafting Barkley but then act like someone is threatening their child when the trade/cut/let leave Barkley ideas get shared.
The issue here with ownership is one thing and one thing clearly- they spend too much time listening to fans and some players- keeping the Giants way wanting to keep the "player" to keep the fans happy.. Screw that.
But, the constant blame on ownership is bullshit, tired and quite frankly a bit childish..
Keep covering your eyes.
But you also contradict yourself. The issue with ownership is exactly what you listed. It’s why they stuck with Eli and took Saqoun, they were afraid of the fan revolt.
So we’re idiots for agreeing with you? What does that make you?
I think had he fixed the OL (DG's biggest failure) close to the 2005-2010 standard quickly the SB pick as well as Jones would have looked better.
The decade of ineptitude under multiple GMs and coaches is completely bad luck, and stems from no root cause.
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screwed up the deal too.
Moron GM that I cannot believe got anybody's support after that first year on the job.
Fess up, who defended him on here?
Baghdad Bob, I mean Ryan tried to pat him on the back last year.
Fatman often disguised his defense of Gettleman as merely some sort of duty to criticize or insult people who attacked him.
The decade of ineptitude under multiple GMs and coaches is completely bad luck, and stems from no root cause.
I think this is true, but I also believe that ended with the hiring of Schoen and Daboll. Unless you feel the hiring of them was itself incompetent.
Its hard for people to believe, understandably so, but this is Schoen's show.
It seems many fans after 6-11 have reversed course and gone back to bashing Mara despite loving everything about the direction just a year ago. This regime deserves a chance and needs time.
Schoen/Daboll have already accomplished more than anything Gettleman has done.
We currently have no 2nd string QB, our 2nd string from last year is rumored to going FA to possibly the Jets or who cares where. DeVito is a flash in the pan.
Let’s sign or trade for somebody who is available from another team. So that we have a capable backup in case Jones’is not available for the early part of next season. Draft or project an available player to draft and see what happens.
In summary, something out of the box!
It seems many fans after 6-11 have reversed course and gone back to bashing Mara despite loving everything about the direction just a year ago. This regime deserves a chance and needs time.
Schoen/Daboll have already accomplished more than anything Gettleman has done.
Generally I agree with you. The problem is Mara is going to need a scapegoat after next year...
What we know is that John Mara makes public statements about and interacts with players regarding their continued tenure as Giants.
We can debate the outcomes, but I truly hope when Mara speaks, it's a coordinated and scripted plan that he and Schoen have put together.
The decisions could suck, but I hopeful they are plan-ful.
What I think many fans fear is that not all of the things Mara says and does are in concert with Schoen's plan.
They NEED to come away with a legitimate QB prospect in April.
I want to see Schoen and Daboll identify a QB they can build with and go get them. I can accept the factors regarding the Jobes/Barkley decisions, but this is the offseason to get their QB.
It seems many fans after 6-11 have reversed course and gone back to bashing Mara despite loving everything about the direction just a year ago. This regime deserves a chance and needs time.
Schoen/Daboll have already accomplished more than anything Gettleman has done.
Generally I agree with you. The problem is Mara is going to need a scapegoat after next year...
I think there are only two explanations for the last decade.
1) John Mara is uniquely bad at hiring people
2) John Mara creates an atmosphere where it is difficult to succeed
I pray it's number one, because given enough swings, they'll hit.
If it's number two, number one doesn't matter.
As others have said, he, John Mara, and others in the FO were stupidly convinced they could make another run with Eli. Barkley was a way to make that happen, although I do think given how locked in DG was on Barkley, that he would have drafted him anyway.
Cleveland apparently offered both their second round picks to move from #4 to #2 to take Barkley. Denver would have offered a lot more, and the Giants could have taken Josh Allen at #6, who Shurmur wanted.
Gettleman also made a ton of other mistakes:
(1) He never fixed the OL. He drafted Will Hernandez instead of Braden Smith, and drafted Matt Peart and Shane Lemieux. He gave Solder a ridiculous contract, and signed and then quickly cut Patrick Omameh.
(2) He wasted a ton of draft picks on CBs who never panned out, including trading up into the first round for DeAndre Baker, a guy who had known character problems. His constant misses meant that our two starting CBs were expensive FAs, Jackson and Bradberry.
(3) He drafted Kadarius Toney, although that was possibly at least partially at the urging or insistence of Judge.
(4) He traded B.J. Hill and a seventh round pick for Billy Price.
(5) He drafted Kyle Lauletta, a weak-armed QB who had no chance of succeeding Eli, and did so with Davis Webb still on the roster.
(6) He traded fourth and sixth round picks for Alec Ogletree and a seventh round pick.
(7) He signed Jonathan Stewart and Golden Tate to ridiculous contracts.
McAdoo I believe is out of the NFL. I think Shurmur was with Colorado last year, but he's been out of the NFL since Denver. Judge was a disaster at the end.
I think John Mara is VERY bad at hiring people. I don't think he's Tepper, but I think he meddles towards the QB position, but not many owners don't meddle with QB.
You were exactly right about the 5th year option and Jones. I remember pushing back on it, but your point was always Jones was going to get at least 2 years anyway. Schoen should have traded him in 2022, but picking up the option would have been a much better alternative to what we have now.
As others have said, he, John Mara, and others in the FO were stupidly convinced they could make another run with Eli. Barkley was a way to make that happen, although I do think given how locked in DG was on Barkley, that he would have drafted him anyway.
Cleveland apparently offered both their second round picks to move from #4 to #2 to take Barkley. Denver would have offered a lot more, and the Giants could have taken Josh Allen at #6, who Shurmur wanted.
Gettleman also made a ton of other mistakes:
(1) He never fixed the OL. He drafted Will Hernandez instead of Braden Smith, and drafted Matt Peart and Shane Lemieux. He gave Solder a ridiculous contract, and signed and then quickly cut Patrick Omameh.
(2) He wasted a ton of draft picks on CBs who never panned out, including trading up into the first round for DeAndre Baker, a guy who had known character problems. His constant misses meant that our two starting CBs were expensive FAs, Jackson and Bradberry.
(3) He drafted Kadarius Toney, although that was possibly at least partially at the urging or insistence of Judge.
(4) He traded B.J. Hill and a seventh round pick for Billy Price.
(5) He drafted Kyle Lauletta, a weak-armed QB who had no chance of succeeding Eli, and did so with Davis Webb still on the roster.
(6) He traded fourth and sixth round picks for Alec Ogletree and a seventh round pick.
(7) He signed Jonathan Stewart and Golden Tate to ridiculous contracts.
I mean, why stop there?
Signing Kyle Rudolph to a $6 million contract ($4.5 million guaranteed) knowing he was injured.
Signing Galladay to a monster deal despite no other suitors, and doctors warning about Galladay's health after the physical.
Structuring Adoree Jackson's contract so that it all buyt ensured Bradberry would need to be cut in 2022 (unless the Giants wanted to have over $40 million cap hit for 2 CBs)
Signing 30 year old Logan Ryan to a $30 million contract extension ($20 million guaranteed).
Schoen/Daboll has accomplished more than anything Gettleman has done.
Corrected the inaccurate statement above.
Daboll coached Gettleman's team to a playoff berth.
By doubling down on Jones, Schoen is basically Gettleman but in better shape, more articulate, and better dressed.
Until we see what he does this off-season to correct his Hindenburg of a mistake, Schoen deserves little to no credit.
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was a total disaster.
As others have said, he, John Mara, and others in the FO were stupidly convinced they could make another run with Eli. Barkley was a way to make that happen, although I do think given how locked in DG was on Barkley, that he would have drafted him anyway.
Cleveland apparently offered both their second round picks to move from #4 to #2 to take Barkley. Denver would have offered a lot more, and the Giants could have taken Josh Allen at #6, who Shurmur wanted.
Gettleman also made a ton of other mistakes:
(1) He never fixed the OL. He drafted Will Hernandez instead of Braden Smith, and drafted Matt Peart and Shane Lemieux. He gave Solder a ridiculous contract, and signed and then quickly cut Patrick Omameh.
(2) He wasted a ton of draft picks on CBs who never panned out, including trading up into the first round for DeAndre Baker, a guy who had known character problems. His constant misses meant that our two starting CBs were expensive FAs, Jackson and Bradberry.
(3) He drafted Kadarius Toney, although that was possibly at least partially at the urging or insistence of Judge.
(4) He traded B.J. Hill and a seventh round pick for Billy Price.
(5) He drafted Kyle Lauletta, a weak-armed QB who had no chance of succeeding Eli, and did so with Davis Webb still on the roster.
(6) He traded fourth and sixth round picks for Alec Ogletree and a seventh round pick.
(7) He signed Jonathan Stewart and Golden Tate to ridiculous contracts.
I mean, why stop there?
Signing Kyle Rudolph to a $6 million contract ($4.5 million guaranteed) knowing he was injured.
Signing Galladay to a monster deal despite no other suitors, and doctors warning about Galladay's health after the physical.
Structuring Adoree Jackson's contract so that it all buyt ensured Bradberry would need to be cut in 2022 (unless the Giants wanted to have over $40 million cap hit for 2 CBs)
Signing 30 year old Logan Ryan to a $30 million contract extension ($20 million guaranteed).
Great points, and I can't believe I forgot Golladay. I guess I was just running out of interest in the whole depressing subject.
We currently have no 2nd string QB, our 2nd string from last year is rumored to going FA to possibly the Jets or who cares where. DeVito is a flash in the pan.
Let’s sign or trade for somebody who is available from another team. So that we have a capable backup in case Jones’is not available for the early part of next season. Draft or project an available player to draft and see what happens.
In summary, something out of the box!
Well, we should get that answer between March 13th and April 27th.
That is when free agency begins and the NFL draft ends.
Arguably, the most important 45 days in Schoen's career as a first time GM.
I think he looks at that time and views his actions as having wasted the end of Manning's career. From 2018 or before, the Giants have operated in the service of Mara's favorite players. We're going to get one more with Manning, we're going to fix this for Jones, Barkley is the face of the franchise.
This is the ghost all coaches and management have to navigate.
Schoen has navigated the draft nicely, and he got nice returns for Toney and Williams. All that said, this offseason is his big test.
When it was clear they were in over their head Mara failed to act decisively understanding the root cause of the problems. The consequence was it ruined the back end of Eli's career. Most of the issues were rooted in poor drafts. The evidence is the 2011-17 drafts. Eli was plenty capable for all those years. Some of Mara's choices after were made due to what had already played out leading to more problems.
Thought it was all hypothetical.
That episode made me openly question whether Gettleman was purposely trolling the team.
It's one thing to have a plan, and be wrong.
It's a whole other nightmare when the football gods give you an out, and you still step in the trap.
I also think this season is huge for the Schoen draft picks. Neal, McFadden, JMS, Thibs, Banks, Flott, Hyatt, etc. all have great opportunities to cement their place.
Schoen has navigated the draft nicely, and he got nice returns for Toney and Williams. All that said, this offseason is his big test.
Jones and Barkley are still here. The OL is still a massive issue. The QB position is still a massive issue. And it's way too early to say with any certainty his drafts are hits.
Outside of Okereke, are we feeling great about his management of free agency?
Big misses include Glowinksi, Waller, and the Jones contract. Worth mentioning is the Campbell miss.
I'm neutral on Barkley on Y-Y agreements.
So ungrateful.
Accorsi was consulting not because they wanted him to tell them to hire but to give them cover for who they were going to hire
First, knowing what I know about the Giants organizational structure I don't believe that any Giants GM would have the authority to do what Gettleman supposedly did. At worst he would have had to have cleared any dealings with the second pick overall with ownership. Second, that's just not how trades work in the NFL. In particular, it is highly unlikely that Elway/Denver would have 'just' called when the Giants got on the clock. Those kind of deals are almost always discussed at length prior to the draft. Third, it also strikes me as highly unlikely that any NFL GM would just blow off another GM like that, especially one as highly regarded around the league as Elway. Maybe they don't want to make that particular deal but there may come a time later on that they do want to deal with that team and burning bridges like that would be stupid. And even if DG tried that I would be shocked if Mara who was big on decorum and respect across the NFL would have tolerated it. I also asked my self the question if DG refused to take Elway's calls how would he know what he was calling about.
My guess is that the Giants did talk with both Cleveland and Denver prior to the draft, but wanted a future #1 as part of the deal and they weren't getting that.
The story's author kind of lost me a bit too when at the end of the article he mentions the Giants could have taken Quentin Nelson because their OL was so bad having given up 31 sacks the previous year. Truth is 31 sacks isn't all that bad; the Giants had 27 in 2007 and 28 in 2011. Sounds to me more like telling the choir what it wants to hear.
Accorsi was consulting not because they wanted him to tell them to hire but to give them cover for who they were going to hire
On your second point, anyone with an IQ above 80 knew why Accorsi was hired. There was no "cover". It was the lamest, most fake "search" ever conducted. And was another reminder how predictable Mara is.
Your first point is probably right, but Eli-Gate accelerated that move, too...
I blame this on the Mara’s and specifically Tim McDonnell. Rudolph was a Notre Dame player.
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In comment 16379273 mittenedman said:
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But it made sense to ownership for some reason.
Gettleman looked smarter than everyone after the rookie season but to Eric's point the team was crumbling around him.
No he didn't. It was the exact opposite. He said he was going to win. You don't keep Eli and then have the #2 pick proclaiming your team is not in rebuild then go 5-11.
Many of us knew the team should have been in rebuild instead fo retool mode. But The Moronic Proud Peacock was too busy trying to tell everyone to telling us all about "his resume" instead of facing reality.
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In comment 16379472 Go Terps said:
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There talent was obvious and he'd been emotionally productive; he rushed for more yards and TDs on fewer carries.
I didn't know what to think about Gettleman prior to that draft. When we took Barkley my first words were "fucking assholes". I knew we were screwed.
Gettleman was a disgusting slob, but he was a symptom. The disease is the Maras, who are bad owners.
*The talent... *extremely productive
*More yards on fewer carries.
Might be time for a new phone.
Dumb dumb dumb post.. All 32 teams passed in Lamar originally.. Dumbass..
And years ago we should have drafted Brady with our 1st round pick. Hindsight is always 20/20