Bill Barnwell has a good article about the teams that could trade up to 1 including the Giants. Most of it is behind a paywall so I’ve linked to a tweet where he spells it out.
He suggest the trade would require the Giants 1st, both seconds this year, and next years first.
A hefty price but I think I’d do it for Caleb Williams. Would you?
Link - (
New Window )
That was my thoughts as well. It shouldn't cost THAT much. Two current year 2nd round picks is a lot of value.
+1
Would you mind articulating those character concerns, as you understand them?
I mean, they can't all be oft-concussed tennis players with a privileged silver spoon background.
I have some concerns with Williams, but if they believe, it's worth doing.
But as mentioned above, I'm not entirely sure that's quite enough to get it done, though certainly close.
That's not answering the question, but par for the course.
Good thing Accorsi wasn't dissuaded by San Diego's willingness to sell 20 years ago.
Agree. Been looking at trade ups for QB. 2012 trade up from sixth to second overall cost Washington their #6, #39, and two future 1sts. For context, the draft was headed by Andrew Luck and RG III, both probably better prospects than any of this year’s candidates. Still, I would think for #1 overall, Chicago will look for more than Barnwell suggests.
Quote:
.
I have some concerns with Williams, but if they believe, it's worth doing.
But as mentioned above, I'm not entirely sure that's quite enough to get it done, though certainly close.
I've got concerns about Williams too. But in the final analysis isn't this a big reason why Schoen and Daboll were brought here? To identify and get the franchise QB?
Well here we are. It's a strong draft. Do it.
Quote:
...would you beg borrow and steal to raise $10M for the sale or would you question whether it's truly the genuine article?
That's not answering the question, but par for the course.
Good thing Accorsi wasn't dissuaded by San Diego's willingness to sell 20 years ago.
I have to say, that analogy was... A stretch
This. Remember all the stories pre-2007 how the Chargers robbed the Giants blind? You stopped seeing them once Eli was hoisting a Lombardi. Same applies here. If they think Williams is that good, get it done.
Quote:
The character concerns make him too risky for such a cost despite his talent.
Would you mind articulating those character concerns, as you understand them?
For a guy who claims to have been coached up on media and public relations since his high school days, he sucks at it, so what does that say about his coachability?
In the words of Bert Gordon.... - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 16385821 Milton said:
Quote:
The character concerns make him too risky for such a cost despite his talent.
Would you mind articulating those character concerns, as you understand them?
He's a guy who writes FUCK UTAH on his fingernails and doesn't have the integrity/maturity/balls to get his entitled ass of the bench to shake hands after the loss. That's the definition of an asshole. And what does it say about his leadership?
For a guy who claims to have been coached up on media and public relations since his high school days, he sucks at it, so what does that say about his coachability? In the words of Bert Gordon.... - ( New Window )
I don't know, I'm not sure you can always judge a guy so quickly. I mean, there are players who get charged with felony gun possession in college and go on to have above-average NFL careers without character issues.
You've been one of the biggest advocates for a few draft prospects over the years that had personalty (Rosen) and character (Robinson) concerns. One of them sucked out loud; the other has been pretty good. Both of them had more flags than Williams.
Your effort to defend Daniel Jones without even saying his name is noted.
Quote:
...would you beg borrow and steal to raise $10M for the sale or would you question whether it's truly the genuine article?
That's not answering the question, but par for the course.
I am a huge proponent of moving to give Schoen/Daboll their top choice at QB, whomever that might be. But any more than what I mentioned above might even be too much for me unless we start talking players in lieu of one of the picks.
Quote:
In comment 16385826 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16385821 Milton said:
Quote:
The character concerns make him too risky for such a cost despite his talent.
Would you mind articulating those character concerns, as you understand them?
He's a guy who writes FUCK UTAH on his fingernails and doesn't have the integrity/maturity/balls to get his entitled ass of the bench to shake hands after the loss. That's the definition of an asshole. And what does it say about his leadership?
For a guy who claims to have been coached up on media and public relations since his high school days, he sucks at it, so what does that say about his coachability? In the words of Bert Gordon.... - ( New Window )
I don't know, I'm not sure you can always judge a guy so quickly. I mean, there are players who get charged with felony gun possession in college and go on to have above-average NFL careers without character issues.
You've been one of the biggest advocates for a few draft prospects over the years that had personalty (Rosen) and character (Robinson) concerns. One of them sucked out loud; the other has been pretty good. Both of them had more flags than Williams.
Your effort to defend Daniel Jones without even saying his name is noted.
You don't have to draw any final conclusions about his potential maturation going forward to decide quite reasonably that the indisputable character questions render paying a draft ransom an unwise use of resources.
The Niners gave up three #1's to move up nine spots to the number three pick and two years later dumped him for a 4th round pick they were lucky to get. You think Chicago would accept only two #1's and two #2's??? Gimme a fucking break! Would you do it if you were Chicago? Only if you didn't think Williams was a winner. Ergo the reason for my comment about the Mona Lisa.
Greg, my friend, I'm gonna stake you to some very valuable advice... - ( New Window )
Quote:
If they think Williams is that good, get it done.
Get what done? This is just a silly hypothetical that bears no relation to reality. Chicago isn't gonna trade the pick and if they did you would have to wonder why, especially for such a cheap price. If Chicago is serious about trading the pick and Williams is the star that people say, it'll cost more than two #1's and two #2's...at least another #1 or maybe Dexter Lawrence or Andrew Thomas.
The Niners gave up three #1's to move up nine spots to the number three pick and two years later dumped him for a 4th round pick they were lucky to get. You think Chicago would accept only two #1's and two #2's??? Gimme a fucking break! Would you do it if you were Chicago? Only if you didn't think Williams was a winner. Ergo the reason for my comment about the Mona Lisa. Greg, my friend, I'm gonna stake you to some very valuable advice... - ( New Window )
Maye is their guy, not Williams -- Drake is who they want to move up for.
The Williams talk is academic.
The price Barnwell is describing is a baseline.. the equivalent of just about three 1sts, two actual #1s and addl picks that pretty much add up to a first, is what I would expect to pay. And if he works out it will be worth it.
Quote:
In comment 16385865 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
If they think Williams is that good, get it done.
Get what done? This is just a silly hypothetical that bears no relation to reality. Chicago isn't gonna trade the pick and if they did you would have to wonder why, especially for such a cheap price. If Chicago is serious about trading the pick and Williams is the star that people say, it'll cost more than two #1's and two #2's...at least another #1 or maybe Dexter Lawrence or Andrew Thomas.
The Niners gave up three #1's to move up nine spots to the number three pick and two years later dumped him for a 4th round pick they were lucky to get. You think Chicago would accept only two #1's and two #2's??? Gimme a fucking break! Would you do it if you were Chicago? Only if you didn't think Williams was a winner. Ergo the reason for my comment about the Mona Lisa. Greg, my friend, I'm gonna stake you to some very valuable advice... - ( New Window )
Maye is their guy, not Williams -- Drake is who they want to move up for.
The Williams talk is academic.
So you believe if the Giants obtain the first pick, the would choose Maye over Williams?
Quote:
In comment 16385920 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 16385865 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
If they think Williams is that good, get it done.
Get what done? This is just a silly hypothetical that bears no relation to reality. Chicago isn't gonna trade the pick and if they did you would have to wonder why, especially for such a cheap price. If Chicago is serious about trading the pick and Williams is the star that people say, it'll cost more than two #1's and two #2's...at least another #1 or maybe Dexter Lawrence or Andrew Thomas.
The Niners gave up three #1's to move up nine spots to the number three pick and two years later dumped him for a 4th round pick they were lucky to get. You think Chicago would accept only two #1's and two #2's??? Gimme a fucking break! Would you do it if you were Chicago? Only if you didn't think Williams was a winner. Ergo the reason for my comment about the Mona Lisa. Greg, my friend, I'm gonna stake you to some very valuable advice... - ( New Window )
Maye is their guy, not Williams -- Drake is who they want to move up for.
The Williams talk is academic.
So you believe if the Giants obtain the first pick, the would choose Maye over Williams?
Yup. It's not a mere opinion, either.
Quote:
In comment 16385865 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
If they think Williams is that good, get it done.
Get what done? This is just a silly hypothetical that bears no relation to reality. Chicago isn't gonna trade the pick and if they did you would have to wonder why, especially for such a cheap price. If Chicago is serious about trading the pick and Williams is the star that people say, it'll cost more than two #1's and two #2's...at least another #1 or maybe Dexter Lawrence or Andrew Thomas.
The Niners gave up three #1's to move up nine spots to the number three pick and two years later dumped him for a 4th round pick they were lucky to get. You think Chicago would accept only two #1's and two #2's??? Gimme a fucking break! Would you do it if you were Chicago? Only if you didn't think Williams was a winner. Ergo the reason for my comment about the Mona Lisa. Greg, my friend, I'm gonna stake you to some very valuable advice... - ( New Window )
Maye is their guy, not Williams -- Drake is who they want to move up for.
The Williams talk is academic.
How would you possibly know this? Are you coach Davoli or something?
Quote:
In comment 16385922 regischarlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 16385920 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 16385865 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
If they think Williams is that good, get it done.
Get what done? This is just a silly hypothetical that bears no relation to reality. Chicago isn't gonna trade the pick and if they did you would have to wonder why, especially for such a cheap price. If Chicago is serious about trading the pick and Williams is the star that people say, it'll cost more than two #1's and two #2's...at least another #1 or maybe Dexter Lawrence or Andrew Thomas.
The Niners gave up three #1's to move up nine spots to the number three pick and two years later dumped him for a 4th round pick they were lucky to get. You think Chicago would accept only two #1's and two #2's??? Gimme a fucking break! Would you do it if you were Chicago? Only if you didn't think Williams was a winner. Ergo the reason for my comment about the Mona Lisa. Greg, my friend, I'm gonna stake you to some very valuable advice... - ( New Window )
Maye is their guy, not Williams -- Drake is who they want to move up for.
The Williams talk is academic.
So you believe if the Giants obtain the first pick, the would choose Maye over Williams?
Yup. It's not a mere opinion, either.
And to be clear, there is obviously a LONG way to go in the nascent draft process. So who knows what might change.
But if the draft were tonite, and they were sitting at 1, Maye would be the pick.
Quote:
In comment 16385927 Manhattan said:
Quote:
In comment 16385922 regischarlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 16385920 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 16385865 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
If they think Williams is that good, get it done.
Get what done? This is just a silly hypothetical that bears no relation to reality. Chicago isn't gonna trade the pick and if they did you would have to wonder why, especially for such a cheap price. If Chicago is serious about trading the pick and Williams is the star that people say, it'll cost more than two #1's and two #2's...at least another #1 or maybe Dexter Lawrence or Andrew Thomas.
The Niners gave up three #1's to move up nine spots to the number three pick and two years later dumped him for a 4th round pick they were lucky to get. You think Chicago would accept only two #1's and two #2's??? Gimme a fucking break! Would you do it if you were Chicago? Only if you didn't think Williams was a winner. Ergo the reason for my comment about the Mona Lisa. Greg, my friend, I'm gonna stake you to some very valuable advice... - ( New Window )
Maye is their guy, not Williams -- Drake is who they want to move up for.
The Williams talk is academic.
So you believe if the Giants obtain the first pick, the would choose Maye over Williams?
Yup. It's not a mere opinion, either.
And to be clear, there is obviously a LONG way to go in the nascent draft process. So who knows what might change.
But if the draft were tonite, and they were sitting at 1, Maye would be the pick.
Wow. I don't love it. I think Williams is far ahead in terms of talent. But Maye does possess ideal size to go along with a power arm. I'd be happy to add him, for sure. But there's a chance you are passing on Michael Jordan, the question is, are you adding Akeem or Sam Bowie?
Maye is their guy, not Williams -- Drake is who they want to move up for.
The Williams talk is academic.
clairvoyant?
Quote:
In comment 16385865 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
If they think Williams is that good, get it done.
Get what done? This is just a silly hypothetical that bears no relation to reality. Chicago isn't gonna trade the pick and if they did you would have to wonder why, especially for such a cheap price. If Chicago is serious about trading the pick and Williams is the star that people say, it'll cost more than two #1's and two #2's...at least another #1 or maybe Dexter Lawrence or Andrew Thomas.
The Niners gave up three #1's to move up nine spots to the number three pick and two years later dumped him for a 4th round pick they were lucky to get. You think Chicago would accept only two #1's and two #2's??? Gimme a fucking break! Would you do it if you were Chicago? Only if you didn't think Williams was a winner. Ergo the reason for my comment about the Mona Lisa. Greg, my friend, I'm gonna stake you to some very valuable advice... - ( New Window )
Maye is their guy, not Williams -- Drake is who they want to move up for.
The Williams talk is academic.
Personally, I hope neither is their guy because my personal preference would be Jayden Daniels. But I know for sure that you have about as much inside info as me, which is none.
What matters to me is that they identify their target and do what it takes (if possible) to make it happen. If that's Williams, great. If it's Maye, terrific. If it's Daniels, fantastic. If it's Nix, eh, but go for it. If it's Penix, fine. If it's McCarthy, ok. If it's Jones? I'd hate it, but mostly because it would be symbolic of further inertia and scholarship status at the QB position, which is a bigger problem than Jones's potential for success (or lack thereof, IMO).
Meanwhile, I think it's especially humorous that the guy who was basically fellating Rosen all over BBI six years ago is now scared of Caleb Williams.
Link - ( New Window )
You've been one of the biggest advocates for a few draft prospects over the years that had personalty (Rosen) and character (Robinson) concerns. One of them sucked out loud; the other has been pretty good. Both of them had more flags than Williams.
If they love one of the prospects, do it. Trade up.
About regischarlotte, can we lay off him? If he has inside info, we should encourage him to share. If he’s wrong, no harm done - it’s just a post on a board.
Quote:
Maye is their guy, not Williams -- Drake is who they want to move up for.
The Williams talk is academic.
clairvoyant?
He's just a Maye fanboy who likes his QBs to look a certain way.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 16385818 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.
I have some concerns with Williams, but if they believe, it's worth doing.
But as mentioned above, I'm not entirely sure that's quite enough to get it done, though certainly close.
I've got concerns about Williams too. But in the final analysis isn't this a big reason why Schoen and Daboll were brought here? To identify and get the franchise QB?
Well here we are. It's a strong draft. Do it.
Agreed, that's why I said if they believe, it's worth doing.
It's what they're getting paid for.
This is where the rubber meets the road.
If they love one of the prospects, do it. Trade up.
About regischarlotte, can we lay off him? If he has inside info, we should encourage him to share. If he’s wrong, no harm done - it’s just a post on a board.
Do a quick search of his posting history. He has no inside info, he just doesn't like QBs of a certain ethnic persuasion.
Quote:
You've been one of the biggest advocates for a few draft prospects over the years that had personalty (Rosen) and character (Robinson) concerns. One of them sucked out loud; the other has been pretty good. Both of them had more flags than Williams.
I talked about Rosen coming off as pretentious at the time, but thought he could grow out of it and also said he wasn't as smart as people were saying. I'm really not sure what happened with him and I don't know if there's been any definitive answer to the question. Is he really that obnoxious that his talent is ignored? Or were rumors of a poor work ethic true? You got me, but there was no doubting his arm talent. As for Cam Robinson, I thought the character concerns were misplaced. He was caught smoking weed with three buddies in a car in a parking lot and he happened to have an unregistered gun under the seat (or something like that). He was perfectly polite to the arresting officer and surrendered without incident. I actually thought his handling of it showed maturity, believe it or not. And Tom Coughlin wasn't dissuaded by character concerns or he wouldn't've traded up for him.
Quote:
Your effort to defend Daniel Jones without even saying his name is noted.
I'm not just defending Jones, I'm defending Schoen and Daboll, because they're the ones who believed in him enough to give $82M in guarantees when the $32M franchise tag was staring them in the face and seemed the obvious choice to me at the time.
And it was a MASSIVE fuck up. You have brought this same point up 10000 times, “Oh, Schoen and Daboll loved him enough to give him that contract so he must be awesome!”.
Find new material. You’re embarrassing yourself. Schoen fucked up and I guarantee you that he now knows it. A rookie GM made a mistake, it happens. Now it’s time to fix it. And I would also bet you a lot of money if we could give Daboll truth serum his opinion of Jones wouldn’t be anywhere near as enthusiastic about Jones as you seem to think it is
Quote:
In comment 16385922 regischarlotte said:
Quote:
Maye is their guy, not Williams -- Drake is who they want to move up for.
The Williams talk is academic.
clairvoyant?
He's just a Maye fanboy who likes his QBs to look a certain way. Link - ( New Window )
Call me shocked.
Your effort to defend Daniel Jones without even saying his name is noted.
p.s.--Earlier you said I "didn't answer the question, but that's par for the course" yet as I scroll through the comments I see that you responded to the comment in which I answered the question so what was that about??? What was the question you say I didn't answer?
Quote:
Would think the #6 pick, the earlier 2nd rounder and next year's 1st rounder would be enough to move up to overall #1 this year.
You would be wrong about that.
Enlighten me Mr. Wizard
Quote:
It’s listing in the water and headed nowhere.
If they love one of the prospects, do it. Trade up.
About regischarlotte, can we lay off him? If he has inside info, we should encourage him to share. If he’s wrong, no harm done - it’s just a post on a board.
Do a quick search of his posting history. He has no inside info, he just doesn't like QBs of a certain ethnic persuasion.
GD -- that's ENTIRELY untrue and ENTIRELY out of line. You are better than that. But then again, allegations of racism (either way) are the lazy man's argument.
Second, I have no personal preference among the QB's this year. Unlike the vast majority around here, I am perfectly comfortable conceding that I haven't looked closely enough to have any meaningful opinion. As they say, I only report the news. I don't make it.
And one doesn't have to be an insider generally to have a discrete piece of reliable nonpublic information. THAT is one thing thing I certainly know from my day job.
Quote:
It’s listing in the water and headed nowhere.
If they love one of the prospects, do it. Trade up.
About regischarlotte, can we lay off him? If he has inside info, we should encourage him to share. If he’s wrong, no harm done - it’s just a post on a board.
Do a quick search of his posting history. He has no inside info, he just doesn't like QBs of a certain ethnic persuasion.
Not only his posting history, but can anyone on this site remember this poster breaking anything at all in the past, using his “inside info”? He’s not a damn insider. Any one of us can come on here and pretend to be an insider. What separates the REAL insiders is that they’ve actually nailed things in the past. Until I see evidence of this guy doing that, he’s just using his own biases and what he thinks the Mara/Giants biases are when it comes to QBs
Quote:
It’s listing in the water and headed nowhere.
If they love one of the prospects, do it. Trade up.
About regischarlotte, can we lay off him? If he has inside info, we should encourage him to share. If he’s wrong, no harm done - it’s just a post on a board.
Do a quick search of his posting history. He has no inside info, he just doesn't like QBs of a certain ethnic persuasion.
And when you cast aspersions, back it up. I dare you -- pull the posting history you allegedly refer to.
The only thing I ever remember saying about any QB was that I am not a believer in Penix.. By the same logic, you are a racist because you don't prefer Jones.
Go ahead, man up -- prove your point with actual post histories or I respectfully request that you STFU about me.
Quote:
In comment 16385948 cosmicj said:
Quote:
It’s listing in the water and headed nowhere.
If they love one of the prospects, do it. Trade up.
About regischarlotte, can we lay off him? If he has inside info, we should encourage him to share. If he’s wrong, no harm done - it’s just a post on a board.
Do a quick search of his posting history. He has no inside info, he just doesn't like QBs of a certain ethnic persuasion.
Not only his posting history, but can anyone on this site remember this poster breaking anything at all in the past, using his “inside info”? He’s not a damn insider. Any one of us can come on here and pretend to be an insider. What separates the REAL insiders is that they’ve actually nailed things in the past. Until I see evidence of this guy doing that, he’s just using his own biases and what he thinks the Mara/Giants biases are when it comes to QBs
See my post above that expressly addresses this.
If people want to think I am full of crap, I understand and have no problem with that.
Just don't call me a racist without any basis whatsoever. That's out of line.
Are timestamps a mystery to you?
Here's your first post, followed by my first reply:
Milton : 3:49 pm : link : reply
The character concerns make him too risky for such a cost despite his talent.
RE: No
Gatorade Dunk : 3:52 pm : link : reply
In comment 16385821 Milton said:
Quote:
The character concerns make him too risky for such a cost despite his talent.
Would you mind articulating those character concerns, as you understand them?
I mean, they can't all be oft-concussed tennis players with a privileged silver spoon background.
Then you posted this:
Milton : 3:55 pm : link : reply
...would you beg borrow and steal to raise $10M for the sale or would you question whether it's truly the genuine article?
Does that read like an answer to this question:
I didn't think so, which is why I responded with this:
Gatorade Dunk : 4:04 pm : link : reply
That's not answering the question, but par for the course.
Good thing Accorsi wasn't dissuaded by San Diego's willingness to sell 20 years ago.
And it then you didn't actually get around to answering that question until here:
Milton : 4:20 pm : link : reply
He's a guy who writes FUCK UTAH on his fingernails and doesn't have the integrity/maturity/balls to get his entitled ass of the bench to shake hands after the loss. That's the definition of an asshole. And what does it say about his leadership?
Does that clear it up for you?
Quote:
. Enlighten me Mr. Wizard
Look at what the Niners gave up for the third overall pick and the third QB to come off the board. Three #1's!
What was the gap they were bridging?
Williams is my "most likely to bust" draft star of 2024. Hopefully NYG will not find out the hard way.
Quote:
In comment 16385948 cosmicj said:
Quote:
It’s listing in the water and headed nowhere.
If they love one of the prospects, do it. Trade up.
About regischarlotte, can we lay off him? If he has inside info, we should encourage him to share. If he’s wrong, no harm done - it’s just a post on a board.
Do a quick search of his posting history. He has no inside info, he just doesn't like QBs of a certain ethnic persuasion.
And when you cast aspersions, back it up. I dare you -- pull the posting history you allegedly refer to.
The only thing I ever remember saying about any QB was that I am not a believer in Penix.. By the same logic, you are a racist because you don't prefer Jones.
Go ahead, man up -- prove your point with actual post histories or I respectfully request that you STFU about me.
Crickets,
Quote:
In comment 16385948 cosmicj said:
Quote:
It’s listing in the water and headed nowhere.
If they love one of the prospects, do it. Trade up.
About regischarlotte, can we lay off him? If he has inside info, we should encourage him to share. If he’s wrong, no harm done - it’s just a post on a board.
Do a quick search of his posting history. He has no inside info, he just doesn't like QBs of a certain ethnic persuasion.
And when you cast aspersions, back it up. I dare you -- pull the posting history you allegedly refer to.
The only thing I ever remember saying about any QB was that I am not a believer in Penix.. By the same logic, you are a racist because you don't prefer Jones.
Go ahead, man up -- prove your point with actual post histories or I respectfully request that you STFU about me.
I did - it's right there in the link I posted earlier (and again below).
You lumping Cam Ward and Jayden Daniels together (first of all) and then comparing them both to Malik Willis (second of all) based on nothing but their athleticism (third of all).
Nevermind that Ward isn't really a running QB in the first place, so that was an odd comparison. But he does share one thing in common with Malik Willis and Jayden Daniels. Can you guess what that is? Interestingly, it's the one thing that they all share in common with Michael Penix.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 16385955 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16385948 cosmicj said:
Quote:
It’s listing in the water and headed nowhere.
If they love one of the prospects, do it. Trade up.
About regischarlotte, can we lay off him? If he has inside info, we should encourage him to share. If he’s wrong, no harm done - it’s just a post on a board.
Do a quick search of his posting history. He has no inside info, he just doesn't like QBs of a certain ethnic persuasion.
And when you cast aspersions, back it up. I dare you -- pull the posting history you allegedly refer to.
The only thing I ever remember saying about any QB was that I am not a believer in Penix.. By the same logic, you are a racist because you don't prefer Jones.
Go ahead, man up -- prove your point with actual post histories or I respectfully request that you STFU about me.
I did - it's right there in the link I posted earlier (and again below).
You lumping Cam Ward and Jayden Daniels together (first of all) and then comparing them both to Malik Willis (second of all) based on nothing but their athleticism (third of all).
Nevermind that Ward isn't really a running QB in the first place, so that was an odd comparison. But he does share one thing in common with Malik Willis and Jayden Daniels. Can you guess what that is? Interestingly, it's the one thing that they all share in common with Michael Penix. Link - ( New Window )
So let's not beat around the bush -- are you saying I am a racist or not?
And the examples you cite are cherrypicking -- any idea what I think about what QB's that suck also?
Finally, if anyone who says that Malik Willis has no meaningful future in the NFL is a racist, then our country is worse off than I thought. Get a better argument.
Quote:
In comment 16385981 regischarlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 16385955 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16385948 cosmicj said:
Quote:
It’s listing in the water and headed nowhere.
If they love one of the prospects, do it. Trade up.
About regischarlotte, can we lay off him? If he has inside info, we should encourage him to share. If he’s wrong, no harm done - it’s just a post on a board.
Do a quick search of his posting history. He has no inside info, he just doesn't like QBs of a certain ethnic persuasion.
And when you cast aspersions, back it up. I dare you -- pull the posting history you allegedly refer to.
The only thing I ever remember saying about any QB was that I am not a believer in Penix.. By the same logic, you are a racist because you don't prefer Jones.
Go ahead, man up -- prove your point with actual post histories or I respectfully request that you STFU about me.
I did - it's right there in the link I posted earlier (and again below).
You lumping Cam Ward and Jayden Daniels together (first of all) and then comparing them both to Malik Willis (second of all) based on nothing but their athleticism (third of all).
Nevermind that Ward isn't really a running QB in the first place, so that was an odd comparison. But he does share one thing in common with Malik Willis and Jayden Daniels. Can you guess what that is? Interestingly, it's the one thing that they all share in common with Michael Penix. Link - ( New Window )
So let's not beat around the bush -- are you saying I am a racist or not?
And the examples you cite are cherrypicking -- any idea what I think about what QB's that suck also?
Finally, if anyone who says that Malik Willis has no meaningful future in the NFL is a racist, then our country is worse off than I thought. Get a better argument.
*about white QB's that suck also
Quote:
. Enlighten me Mr. Wizard
Look at what the Niners gave up for the third overall pick and the third QB to come off the board. Three #1's!
Recall that was to go from #12 to #3. That is further than we are talking about moving up here with the Giants so less compensation makes sense, such as one of the #1s now becomes a #2.
Anything else?
Quote:
In comment 16385981 regischarlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 16385955 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16385948 cosmicj said:
Quote:
It’s listing in the water and headed nowhere.
If they love one of the prospects, do it. Trade up.
About regischarlotte, can we lay off him? If he has inside info, we should encourage him to share. If he’s wrong, no harm done - it’s just a post on a board.
Do a quick search of his posting history. He has no inside info, he just doesn't like QBs of a certain ethnic persuasion.
And when you cast aspersions, back it up. I dare you -- pull the posting history you allegedly refer to.
The only thing I ever remember saying about any QB was that I am not a believer in Penix.. By the same logic, you are a racist because you don't prefer Jones.
Go ahead, man up -- prove your point with actual post histories or I respectfully request that you STFU about me.
I did - it's right there in the link I posted earlier (and again below).
You lumping Cam Ward and Jayden Daniels together (first of all) and then comparing them both to Malik Willis (second of all) based on nothing but their athleticism (third of all).
Nevermind that Ward isn't really a running QB in the first place, so that was an odd comparison. But he does share one thing in common with Malik Willis and Jayden Daniels. Can you guess what that is? Interestingly, it's the one thing that they all share in common with Michael Penix. Link - ( New Window )
So let's not beat around the bush -- are you saying I am a racist or not?
And the examples you cite are cherrypicking -- any idea what I think about what QB's that suck also?
Finally, if anyone who says that Malik Willis has no meaningful future in the NFL is a racist, then our country is worse off than I thought. Get a better argument.
I'll call you stupid to go along with racist. The point isn't about whether Malik Willis is going to be good in the NFL or not. The point is using Malik Willis as your example for how the NFL will view Ward and Daniels, when only one of them has stats/skills that are even remotely comparable to Willis, but both of them have the same skin color as him.
The fact that you came on here claiming to have inside info that the Giants prefer Maye over Williams and then threw disdain for Penix in there for free all by yourself didn't help.
To summarize, you think Ward and Daniels similar to each other and are both going to be viewed by the NFL as Malik Willis redux; you think the Giants have Maye above Williams; and you don't like Penix. By my count, that's an awful lot of consistent evidence.
No issue with a move for CW, but Daniels is the prize.
Hell, if Maye is there at #3,4, or 5 I would move for him.
Quote:
unless I got a 4th or even a 3rd back from Chicago.
That was my thoughts as well. It shouldn't cost THAT much. Two current year 2nd round picks is a lot of value.
I agree that it shouldn’t cost that much either, but if we’re trading up to take the player the Bears covet, you can likely throw the draft pick value chart out the window.
Quote:
In comment 16385999 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16385981 regischarlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 16385955 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16385948 cosmicj said:
Quote:
It’s listing in the water and headed nowhere.
If they love one of the prospects, do it. Trade up.
About regischarlotte, can we lay off him? If he has inside info, we should encourage him to share. If he’s wrong, no harm done - it’s just a post on a board.
Do a quick search of his posting history. He has no inside info, he just doesn't like QBs of a certain ethnic persuasion.
And when you cast aspersions, back it up. I dare you -- pull the posting history you allegedly refer to.
The only thing I ever remember saying about any QB was that I am not a believer in Penix.. By the same logic, you are a racist because you don't prefer Jones.
Go ahead, man up -- prove your point with actual post histories or I respectfully request that you STFU about me.
I did - it's right there in the link I posted earlier (and again below).
You lumping Cam Ward and Jayden Daniels together (first of all) and then comparing them both to Malik Willis (second of all) based on nothing but their athleticism (third of all).
Nevermind that Ward isn't really a running QB in the first place, so that was an odd comparison. But he does share one thing in common with Malik Willis and Jayden Daniels. Can you guess what that is? Interestingly, it's the one thing that they all share in common with Michael Penix. Link - ( New Window )
So let's not beat around the bush -- are you saying I am a racist or not?
And the examples you cite are cherrypicking -- any idea what I think about what QB's that suck also?
Finally, if anyone who says that Malik Willis has no meaningful future in the NFL is a racist, then our country is worse off than I thought. Get a better argument.
I'll call you stupid to go along with racist. The point isn't about whether Malik Willis is going to be good in the NFL or not. The point is using Malik Willis as your example for how the NFL will view Ward and Daniels, when only one of them has stats/skills that are even remotely comparable to Willis, but both of them have the same skin color as him.
The fact that you came on here claiming to have inside info that the Giants prefer Maye over Williams and then threw disdain for Penix in there for free all by yourself didn't help.
To summarize, you think Ward and Daniels similar to each other and are both going to be viewed by the NFL as Malik Willis redux; you think the Giants have Maye above Williams; and you don't like Penix. By my count, that's an awful lot of consistent evidence.
Well, I went to Harvard and I am black.
So FU.
Quote:
In comment 16386004 regischarlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 16385999 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16385981 regischarlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 16385955 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16385948 cosmicj said:
Quote:
It’s listing in the water and headed nowhere.
If they love one of the prospects, do it. Trade up.
About regischarlotte, can we lay off him? If he has inside info, we should encourage him to share. If he’s wrong, no harm done - it’s just a post on a board.
Do a quick search of his posting history. He has no inside info, he just doesn't like QBs of a certain ethnic persuasion.
And when you cast aspersions, back it up. I dare you -- pull the posting history you allegedly refer to.
The only thing I ever remember saying about any QB was that I am not a believer in Penix.. By the same logic, you are a racist because you don't prefer Jones.
Go ahead, man up -- prove your point with actual post histories or I respectfully request that you STFU about me.
I did - it's right there in the link I posted earlier (and again below).
You lumping Cam Ward and Jayden Daniels together (first of all) and then comparing them both to Malik Willis (second of all) based on nothing but their athleticism (third of all).
Nevermind that Ward isn't really a running QB in the first place, so that was an odd comparison. But he does share one thing in common with Malik Willis and Jayden Daniels. Can you guess what that is? Interestingly, it's the one thing that they all share in common with Michael Penix. Link - ( New Window )
So let's not beat around the bush -- are you saying I am a racist or not?
And the examples you cite are cherrypicking -- any idea what I think about what QB's that suck also?
Finally, if anyone who says that Malik Willis has no meaningful future in the NFL is a racist, then our country is worse off than I thought. Get a better argument.
I'll call you stupid to go along with racist. The point isn't about whether Malik Willis is going to be good in the NFL or not. The point is using Malik Willis as your example for how the NFL will view Ward and Daniels, when only one of them has stats/skills that are even remotely comparable to Willis, but both of them have the same skin color as him.
The fact that you came on here claiming to have inside info that the Giants prefer Maye over Williams and then threw disdain for Penix in there for free all by yourself didn't help.
To summarize, you think Ward and Daniels similar to each other and are both going to be viewed by the NFL as Malik Willis redux; you think the Giants have Maye above Williams; and you don't like Penix. By my count, that's an awful lot of consistent evidence.
Well, I went to Harvard and I am black.
So FU.
You really are a message board Sherlock Holmes.
Stupid AND Racist?
Not even close on either.
So FU.
I would have expected nothing else but that in response, and I believe that just about as much as I believe you having inside info.
Which is somewhere between 0% and 0%.
Quote:
Well, I went to Harvard and I am black.
So FU.
I would have expected nothing else but that in response, and I believe that just about as much as I believe you having inside info.
Which is somewhere between 0% and 0%.
Sure.
Ask me what house I lived in.
Ask me what I concentrated in (not majored).
Ask me what happened to Elsie's.
As me what island my mom is from.
STFU.
That's what I said.
Should be sufficient unless Chicago hates Fields that much...and they don't.
Ask me what house I lived in.
Ask me what I concentrated in (not majored).
Ask me what happened to Elsie's.
As me what island my mom is from.
STFU.
If you think you are getting the next Herbert, Lawrence, Hurts, Purdy, Prescott, Lavar then I want the picks to build the team.
If it is a Josh Allen or Burrow then maybe for me.
Give up the farm for a QB that will put you in the playoffs every year regardless of who is his skill players.
Give up the farm if you are a strong team who is competive but missing the QB to win the big game or complement the skill players you do have.
Otherwise give me picks to keep building the team.
So the better approach is to pick BPA at six and move back up into the first with our additional draft capital to get one of the consolation prizes, Penix or Nix if available. If not available, then try to find the next Brock Purdy lottery ticket somewhere.
The reality is, there is a higher probability than at any time in the Super Bowl era that this franchise will have the first overall pick in 2025. Schoen and Daboll will either hit a massive home run at the quarterback position this year, or their tenure will ultimately be either quite short or quite bad.
More tough times for this franchise appear to be inevitable and immutable at this point because of a decade of putrid front office decision making.
They're not trading the pick. They're taking Caleb.
From what I have been told, those meaningless game are in fact meaningful because they supposedly build a winning culture.
Of course, a franchise QB actually builds a winning culture. Not games played by TT or Tom DeVito.
Unless Schoen deserts his double-down Jones strategy and makes a move up in the draft, I have a feeling we are going to be on this board three years from now wondering, "Too bad we won those 'meaningful games' in 2023..."
Quote:
And the Bears would be morons to trade the pick. So let's face it - we again won some utterly meaningless games late in the season and essentially gifted the Commanders and Patriots two of the highest ceiling quarterbacks we have seen in years.
From what I have been told, those meaningless game are in fact meaningful because they supposedly build a winning culture.
Of course, a franchise QB actually builds a winning culture. Not games played by TT or Tom DeVito.
Unless Schoen deserts his double-down Jones strategy and makes a move up in the draft, I have a feeling we are going to be on this board three years from now wondering, "Too bad we won those 'meaningful games' in 2023..."
So what’s your solution to solving “meaningless wins”? Forfeit the games starting in week 10? “Meaningless wins” is useless fan fodder that simply isn’t real life. Easy to chastise wins, any wins, while sitting on your nasty ass couches with no skin in the game. Yet you’ve all somehow convinced yourselves that you’re smarter fans because you wanted losses and the stupid team and stupid coaches went out there and won some damn games. You clowns live in some kind of warped fantasy land
But do us all a favor and stop trolling BBIrs
You don't need to confirm that you are an asshole...
... Everybody here already knows.
If you think you are getting the next Herbert, Lawrence, Hurts, Purdy, Prescott, Lavar then I want the picks to build the team.
If it is a Josh Allen or Burrow then maybe for me.
Give up the farm for a QB that will put you in the playoffs every year regardless of who is his skill players.
Give up the farm if you are a strong team who is competive but missing the QB to win the big game or complement the skill players you do have.
Otherwise give me picks to keep building the team.
With all due respect I think this is the wrong way to look at it.
First of all it doesn't work the way you lay out. You don't get to order up Mahomes rather than TLaw. You get what you get. Sometimes they bust, sometimes they are Dak, sometimes they are Josh Allen. But if you don't take shots, you miss out on great opportunities to find a franchise altering QB. Which this team desperately needs after 5 years of Daniel Doesn't.
I will say just about every QB you mention is a massive upgrade for the Giants and suddenly puts us in playoff contention. A huge upgrade at QB is more valuable than the picks we give up. I would sign up for Justin Herbert tomorrow if the cost was two firsts and two seconds.
I'd like to be picking first, but coaches coach to win and players play to win. Bitching about it is such a waste.
Having said that, I think there is a decent chance Daniels falls to the Giants.
Quote:
And the Bears would be morons to trade the pick. So let's face it - we again won some utterly meaningless games late in the season and essentially gifted the Commanders and Patriots two of the highest ceiling quarterbacks we have seen in years.
From what I have been told, those meaningless game are in fact meaningful because they supposedly build a winning culture.
Of course, a franchise QB actually builds a winning culture. Not games played by TT or Tom DeVito.
Unless Schoen deserts his double-down Jones strategy and makes a move up in the draft, I have a feeling we are going to be on this board three years from now wondering, "Too bad we won those 'meaningful games' in 2023..."
I don't think a trade up will be available. The Bears will not trade their pick. And why would the Pats and Commanders trade either of their picks? Two new coaches with an opportunity to get a top quarterback - on two teams whom each desperately needs a quarterback!
No, Schoen will have to double down on DJ as you say. They will have to sign a vet backup - Taylor or Brissett et al. And probably miss out on Nix and Penix and end up drafting someone like McCarthy or Pratt.
So what’s your solution to solving “meaningless wins”? Forfeit the games starting in week 10? “Meaningless wins” is useless fan fodder that simply isn’t real life. Easy to chastise wins, any wins, while sitting on your nasty ass couches with no skin in the game. Yet you’ve all somehow convinced yourselves that you’re smarter fans because you wanted losses and the stupid team and stupid coaches went out there and won some damn games. You clowns live in some kind of warped fantasy land
This has nothing to do with solutions.
I'm repeating what many on the board would try to sell when we won those meaningless games.
Quote:
In comment 16386168 The Mike said:
Quote:
And the Bears would be morons to trade the pick. So let's face it - we again won some utterly meaningless games late in the season and essentially gifted the Commanders and Patriots two of the highest ceiling quarterbacks we have seen in years.
From what I have been told, those meaningless game are in fact meaningful because they supposedly build a winning culture.
Of course, a franchise QB actually builds a winning culture. Not games played by TT or Tom DeVito.
Unless Schoen deserts his double-down Jones strategy and makes a move up in the draft, I have a feeling we are going to be on this board three years from now wondering, "Too bad we won those 'meaningful games' in 2023..."
So what’s your solution to solving “meaningless wins”? Forfeit the games starting in week 10? “Meaningless wins” is useless fan fodder that simply isn’t real life. Easy to chastise wins, any wins, while sitting on your nasty ass couches with no skin in the game. Yet you’ve all somehow convinced yourselves that you’re smarter fans because you wanted losses and the stupid team and stupid coaches went out there and won some damn games. You clowns live in some kind of warped fantasy land
The point is, you trade Barkley at the trade deadline and stop living in the stupid fantasy dream world that this franchise and its moronic front office has a fucking clue to what it is doing...
Quote:
In comment 16386168 The Mike said:
Quote:
And the Bears would be morons to trade the pick. So let's face it - we again won some utterly meaningless games late in the season and essentially gifted the Commanders and Patriots two of the highest ceiling quarterbacks we have seen in years.
From what I have been told, those meaningless game are in fact meaningful because they supposedly build a winning culture.
Of course, a franchise QB actually builds a winning culture. Not games played by TT or Tom DeVito.
Unless Schoen deserts his double-down Jones strategy and makes a move up in the draft, I have a feeling we are going to be on this board three years from now wondering, "Too bad we won those 'meaningful games' in 2023..."
I don't think a trade up will be available. The Bears will not trade their pick. And why would the Pats and Commanders trade either of their picks? Two new coaches with an opportunity to get a top quarterback - on two teams whom each desperately needs a quarterback!
No, Schoen will have to double down on DJ as you say. They will have to sign a vet backup - Taylor or Brissett et al. And probably miss out on Nix and Penix and end up drafting someone like McCarthy or Pratt.
I am certain Wash will draft a QB, but I am not certain NE will. Washington will have a choice and NE won't. When QB1 and QB2 fly off the board New England will be there on the clock with a choice between sloppy thirds, the QB CHI and WASH didn't want, a QB they may not like, and Marvin Harrison Jr, who is regarded as the best receiving prospect since Calvin Johnson. I do believe they are likely to draft a QB but I don't think it is nearly as fait accompli as it is portrayed.
I'd like to be picking first, but coaches coach to win and players play to win. Bitching about it is such a waste.
What's dumb are those dumb enough to think winning those games in a disastrous season would somehow help create a winning culture for the future.
This nonsense again? Geesh...
But do us all a favor and stop trolling BBIrs
You don't need to confirm that you are an asshole...
... Everybody here already knows.
What a joke. This post only confirms that as well.
The point is, you trade Barkley at the trade deadline and stop living in the stupid fantasy dream world that this franchise and its moronic front office has a fucking clue to what it is doing...
That's a different argument, but that was the right strategy.
Kudos to Schoen for selling LW. But that should have been the start of the fire sale.
Barkley, Slayton, AJax should have been moved, too.
Quote:
In comment 16386201 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16386168 The Mike said:
I am certain Wash will draft a QB, but I am not certain NE will. Washington will have a choice and NE won't. When QB1 and QB2 fly off the board New England will be there on the clock with a choice between sloppy thirds, the QB CHI and WASH didn't want, a QB they may not like, and Marvin Harrison Jr, who is regarded as the best receiving prospect since Calvin Johnson. I do believe they are likely to draft a QB but I don't think it is nearly as fait accompli as it is portrayed.
It was mid November and the Giants started Tommy DeVito. But they're dumb because they won games!
Quote:
The point is, you trade Barkley at the trade deadline and stop living in the stupid fantasy dream world that this franchise and its moronic front office has a fucking clue to what it is doing...
That's a different argument, but that was the right strategy.
Kudos to Schoen for selling LW. But that should have been the start of the fire sale.
Barkley, Slayton, AJax should have been moved, too.
Agreed. No one is suggesting that they purposely lose games or tank. I am simply saying that the front office continues to be in denial as to its massive mistakes in personnel and should have waved the white flag at the trade deadline. It was another massive blunder on many levels.
Recall that was to go from #12 to #3. That is further than we are talking about moving up here with the Giants so less compensation makes sense, such as one of the #1s now becomes a #2.
Anything else?
I believe we are saying the same thing. The only way for Schoen to redeem this franchise is to get an elite NFL quarterback in this upcoming draft. That is much less likely now because of those meaningless wins. This is a descriptive fact. Not a regret for not tanking, but a regret that the front office has misunderstood this, and probably still does, and should have aggressively parted with Barkley and others at the trade deadline rather than drinking the status quo kool-aid.
Quote:
Maye is their guy, not Williams -- Drake is who they want to move up for.
The Williams talk is academic.
clairvoyant?
No. It’s bullshit speculation posted as if it’s inside info.
Quote:
The point is, you trade Barkley at the trade deadline and stop living in the stupid fantasy dream world that this franchise and its moronic front office has a fucking clue to what it is doing...
That's a different argument, but that was the right strategy.
Kudos to Schoen for selling LW. But that should have been the start of the fire sale.
Barkley, Slayton, AJax should have been moved, too.
Im sorry, but what were the offers for these guys? Maybe I am forgetting, but there was no market for Adoree. I though that there was no market for Slayyon and Barkley still was relatively expensive for a running back
Quote:
Look at what the Niners gave up for the third overall pick and the third QB to come off the board. Three #1's!
Recall that was to go from #12 to #3. That is further than we are talking about moving up here with the Giants so less compensation makes sense, such as one of the #1s now becomes a #2.
Anything else?
Hahaha hahaha haha! You poor innocent babe, you really should know better. Going from 6 to 1 is steeper than going from 12 to 3. Do the math! It's not 6-1=5 vs 12-3=9, it's 3000-1600=1400 vs 2200-1200=1000.
Based on the value chart, that 1400 pt diff is one 2nd rounder this year and next years first or multiple picks this year. Its not going to cost 3 1sts and 2nds.... Thays absurd.
Quote:
In comment 16385971 ThomasG said:
Quote:
. Enlighten me Mr. Wizard
Look at what the Niners gave up for the third overall pick and the third QB to come off the board. Three #1's!
What was the gap they were bridging?
Quote:
In comment 16385987 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 16385971 ThomasG said:
Quote:
. Enlighten me Mr. Wizard
Look at what the Niners gave up for the third overall pick and the third QB to come off the board. Three #1's!
What was the gap they were bridging?
1000 trade value units.
Nowhere near 3 1s:
Per the bold, that is a very valid concern.
However, if Schoen recognizes that he made a mistake with Jones, and now has an opportunity to fix it, he needs that opportunity.
So another way of putting this is that to move up in this scenario is #6 and three future first rounders (that kind of value). No.
And I don't think Chicago would require that type of comp to do the deal, either.
Quote:
cost of moving up is too expensive, but I could see Schoen doing it to try and make up for his colossal blunder in signing Jones to that idiotic contract. But given what it would cost to do so, trading up would just be making that bad mistake even worse by stripping the team of the draft capital it needs to improve. Fifty percent of all first round QBs also bust. Massive trade ups for QBs rarely work. RGIII, Sam Darnold, Trey Lance, and Jason Campbell are good examples. And after signing Jones to that contract, Schoen frankly hasn't earned the right to be trusted to pick the right QB after moving up.
Per the bold, that is a very valid concern.
However, if Schoen recognizes that he made a mistake with Jones, and now has an opportunity to fix it, he needs that opportunity.
Im still not certain that that deal was all Scheoen. I get the impression that he wanted to stay the course, but telling his owner who has an infatuation with the guy who played admirably, beat the naysayers and won on the road in the playoffs that he was going to let that guy walk was too much of a hurdle.... And I dont blame him. Telling your boss that you are willing to throw away a winning season as a first time GM is a LOT to ask. Id be surprised if he didnt at least tell John he had his doubts and that he wanted leeway in case in didnt work out. But Schoen has had a plan to move on from Jones all along hence not picking up the option.
I dont believe for a second Joe Schoen doesnt onow what he is doing. Not yet at least.
Im still not certain that that deal was all Scheoen. I get the impression that he wanted to stay the course, but telling his owner who has an infatuation with the guy who played admirably, beat the naysayers and won on the road in the playoffs that he was going to let that guy walk was too much of a hurdle.... And I dont blame him. Telling your boss that you are willing to throw away a winning season as a first time GM is a LOT to ask. Id be surprised if he didnt at least tell John he had his doubts and that he wanted leeway in case in didnt work out. But Schoen has had a plan to move on from Jones all along hence not picking up the option.
I dont believe for a second Joe Schoen doesnt onow what he is doing. Not yet at least.
This is old real estate..
But that seems to be the off-ramp many take to give Schoen cover for the Jones contract. I don't. It's too convenient. If you trust him so much, why wouldn't you consider the possibility that Schoen really liked Jones?
And even if you factor in any pressure from Mara, the better strategy was the prove-it-again move, V2. It's not like Jones has a Mahomes type year in 2022. He had a good year for him.
So, apply the FT - I thought the TT was wiser - and make Jones prove if again with new weapons, second year in the system, etc.
Quote:
Im still not certain that that deal was all Scheoen. I get the impression that he wanted to stay the course, but telling his owner who has an infatuation with the guy who played admirably, beat the naysayers and won on the road in the playoffs that he was going to let that guy walk was too much of a hurdle.... And I dont blame him. Telling your boss that you are willing to throw away a winning season as a first time GM is a LOT to ask. Id be surprised if he didnt at least tell John he had his doubts and that he wanted leeway in case in didnt work out. But Schoen has had a plan to move on from Jones all along hence not picking up the option.
I dont believe for a second Joe Schoen doesnt onow what he is doing. Not yet at least.
This is old real estate..
But that seems to be the off-ramp many take to give Schoen cover for the Jones contract. I don't. It's too convenient. If you trust him so much, why wouldn't you consider the possibility that Schoen really liked Jones?
And even if you factor in any pressure from Mara, the better strategy was the prove-it-again move, V2. It's not like Jones has a Mahomes type year in 2022. He had a good year for him.
So, apply the FT - I thought the TT was wiser - and make Jones prove if again with new weapons, second year in the system, etc.
You are trying too jard to diminish my point by overlooking the very obvious reasoning for my belief. I dont mean to be combative, nut I jave noticed that many here do this to try and make a point.
If the FT were in play it would have cost the Giants a whopping 8 million less than the current Jones contract for one year. Jones 4th year option would have been 22 million. Why on earth wouldnt Schoen pick that up if he liked him even a little bit? If Jones stunk in 2022, his 5th year number would have paid him out as the 20th highest paid WB behind Garppolo. At the very least, he is a well paid back up for a year and at the most he is a bargain as a playoff winning QB.
Instead, he was left with a tough spot in having a playoff einning WB eho really looked like he had turned the corner, the whole team and org loves him and as a GM he wasnt picking until the mid 20s in a pretty talent starved QB draft.
The arithmetic is pretty simple if you don't start adding hyperbolic variables yo it.
Now the one thing I will give you is his poor read on Barkley. Thank God he didnt take that in-season contract (although given how the offseason negotiations went, I wouldnt be surprised if that wasnt all his idea either) and I think we would all be shocked if he got anything remotely close to his franchise tag from last year.
This idea that Joe Schoen simply flipped his opinion on Jones in one season just doesnt register.
☝️
One of the worst things you can do is label someone a racist. If you do, there should be verifiable evidence.
I wouldn't be surprised if GD called me a racist for not liking Lamar or Dwayne Haskins. Yet Jayden Daniels is my #1.
You need to take a chill pill, dude. It's fucked up what you're doing.
Hell, you might be right in one case or another, but before you cast those kind of aspersions, it needs to be more than a suspicion. Stop being a dick.
BTW, Caleb Williams "arm angles" doesn't do shit for me. I don't like him. I think he's going to bust hard. I do think he has tremendous arm talent, but I also think he's reckless and not a precision decision-maker and executor. I do think Daniels is that, and I'll take his athleticism over Williams' arm angles every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
I also think Jack Stroud is an idiot for his misplaced faith in DJ. But I don't assume he's a racist for it, that would be an assumption without evidence, and would make me an asshole. And I saw your post where you called him Jackkk. It was noticed. That's fucked up.
Back to the point of the thread, Milton... you're wrong. An agreement wouldn't cost as much as you say. And further, stop walking back your Rosen stuff. For all the talk of arm-talent, that's just one point of the overall eval, and you missed it, don't try to walk it back now... You were wrong, own up to it. He was a bust, period.
Quote:
and pull the trigger.
That's what I said. Should be sufficient unless Chicago hates Fields that much...and they don't.
So my question becomes: if Williams isn't discernibly better than Fields (and Fields is nothing special), why the hell would you give up that much to trade up for him? It's as if you have two separate grades on Williams: one from the Giants that says he's great, and one from the Bears that says he's merely very good. And all so you can participate in an exercise in mental masturbation that has no baring on reality.
My opinion: if Williams ain't worth three #1's, he ain't worth trading up for. And I don't think he's worth three #1's.
You are absolutely right that Williams has more tools than Daniels. The issue is that Daniels appears to have the better toolbox to maximize his tools. It becomes a date about theoretical upside versus realistic upside. I am concerned that Williams plays too much “hero ball” leading to excessive turnovers and not being able to ice the game. In addition, he has seemed evasive in press conferences about accepting fault when he is at fault. Behind closed doors it may be different on that point, but that is what due diligence is for. Daniels had much more production this year despite facing stronger defenses. I could see exactly why a team might feel that the cost of trading up is not worth just settling for someone like Daniels if you expect him to still be on the board.
I do think Williams is better than Fields, but no one knows what the Bears think or if Williams is even their top target (same for Giants too). Jones has no future in NY and imv if Schoen can offer enough to Poles to move, he will. Schoen has to rectify his mistake and this could be the best chance he has to do it and won't pass it up or his GM cycle may be over.
Poles could stay at #1 and pick a QB and keep both the rookie and Fields, but that leaves "money on the table". Trading down should be very attractive to Poles because of numerous dynamics including Fields looks like he is still improving/developing; CHI doesn't have to drop all that far and can get another potential blue-chip; they even still have a decent chance to pick a QB (and one they may like even better than Williams later); and they get some valuable extra picks to play with to improve both sides of the roster. If Poles tries to move Fields his value will plummet. And his cycle still has time under a cheap rookie deal and an option and/or tag on the horizon if it continues.
There is more but this is enough for you for now.
One of the worst things you can do is label someone a racist. If you do, there should be verifiable evidence.
I wouldn't be surprised if GD called me a racist for not liking Lamar or Dwayne Haskins. Yet Jayden Daniels is my #1.
You need to take a chill pill, dude. It's fucked up what you're doing.
Hell, you might be right in one case or another, but before you cast those kind of aspersions, it needs to be more than a suspicion. Stop being a dick.
BTW, Caleb Williams "arm angles" doesn't do shit for me. I don't like him. I think he's going to bust hard. I do think he has tremendous arm talent, but I also think he's reckless and not a precision decision-maker and executor. I do think Daniels is that, and I'll take his athleticism over Williams' arm angles every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
I also think Jack Stroud is an idiot for his misplaced faith in DJ. But I don't assume he's a racist for it, that would be an assumption without evidence, and would make me an asshole. And I saw your post where you called him Jackkk. It was noticed. That's fucked up.
Back to the point of the thread, Milton... you're wrong. An agreement wouldn't cost as much as you say. And further, stop walking back your Rosen stuff. For all the talk of arm-talent, that's just one point of the overall eval, and you missed it, don't try to walk it back now... You were wrong, own up to it. He was a bust, period.
Respectfully, Jim, I'm not backing off either assertion. I'm aware of the gravity, and I made both claims knowing that it shouldn't be taken lightly. I also think there are many racist people who also happen to be football fans, so I don't know why it should be surprising that there might be a handful right here on BBI. If you have another explanation for fans that slam Reese but defend Gettleman, for example, I'd love to hear it.
In response to your post, I'll say that I pointed out the repeated and consistent denigration of multiple black QB prospects and the racist dog whistling that was accompanying it from regischarlotte, and I feel comfortable with the conclusion drawn.
As for Jack Stroud, if there's someone who you think can compare Michael Penix to Justin Fields for reasons that aren't racist, I'd love to know which dispensary you patronize.
Link - ( New Window )
IF Schoen is as gung ho on (insert QB name here) as Gettleman was on Barkley, adding next year's #1 and a #2 (or a couple of them) to the swap from #6 is a no brainer, IMO. It might (probably?) cost more than that, and that's where the dilemma starts. At some point the cost of being wrong becomes too much of a risk. The draft is NOT a crap shoot, but it's very difficult to get the QB evaluation right.
And, will you children stop derailing the thread with your infantile bickering?
Back to the point of the thread, Milton... you're wrong. An agreement wouldn't cost as much as you say.
Why did he fail? Why were no coaching staffs willing to stick with him? Was it a poor work ethic? Poor decision-making? An unlikable personality that rubbed people the wrong way? Has there ever been an expose of sorts on why such a physically gifted QB is out of the league at age 26?
But if it's an announcement you're demanding of me, here you go...
I was not exactly right - ( New Window )
p.s.--I've always felt it was impossible to separate Reese from Coughlin when it came to personnel decisions because Coughlin had so much clout with the Mara family. When it came to a war of wills, Reese didn't have a chance vs Coughlin.
Quote:
In comment 16386029 regischarlotte said:
Quote:
Well, I went to Harvard and I am black.
So FU.
I would have expected nothing else but that in response, and I believe that just about as much as I believe you having inside info.
Which is somewhere between 0% and 0%.
Sure.
Ask me what house I lived in.
Ask me what I concentrated in (not majored).
Ask me what happened to Elsie's.
As me what island my mom is from.
STFU.
What island is your mother from? I am on St John USVI.
This WR class is very deep. I wouldn’t be shocked if they work out a trade where a player is included to keep a draft pick. They also could try and move future picks. No idea if this would be the price, but many teams have traded 3 firsts and more to get their QB.
Quote:
If you have another explanation for fans that slam Reese but defend Gettleman, for example, I'd love to hear it.
As someone who has defended both Reese and Gettleman, there could be any number of reasons why someone might be critical of Reese, but not Gettleman. It's not as if they were carbon copies of each other with skin color the lone exception.
p.s.--I've always felt it was impossible to separate Reese from Coughlin when it came to personnel decisions because Coughlin had so much clout with the Mara family. When it came to a war of wills, Reese didn't have a chance vs Coughlin.
I can understand slamming both (deservedly); I can understand defending both (at least in terms of consistency); I can understand defending Reese but slamming Gettleman (based on overall body of work as GM). But there are those who spent the entirety of Gettleman's tenure using Reese as the excuse for Gettleman's poor performance (and some continue to do so now). It is that particular scenario that I find suspect.
They're not trading the pick. They're taking Caleb.
It's pretty obvious
Of course you find it suspect, because you WANT to find it suspect. Yours is a tiring perspective.
Quote:
It is that particular scenario that I find suspect.
Of course you find it suspect, because you WANT to find it suspect. Yours is a tiring perspective.
So tell me, Bob, what would be a reasonable perspective for criticizing Reese while defending Gettleman?
Quote:
In comment 16386637 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
It is that particular scenario that I find suspect.
Of course you find it suspect, because you WANT to find it suspect. Yours is a tiring perspective.
So tell me, Bob, what would be a reasonable perspective for criticizing Reese while defending Gettleman?
Personally, I don't have an opinion on a Reese vs Gettleman comparison, but a reasonable perspective on the matter would be that people simply have different opinions. You seem quick to conclude certain opinions as racist, seemingly because they differ from yours.
And that's your opinion, right? And I wasn't asking you to defend Gettleman at Reese's expense; I was asking if you could even think a reason why someone might.
I don't think it's crazy, if you're going to suggest that I'm too quick to assume racism, to ask for a hypothetical perspective whereby one might reasonably and logically defend Gettleman while criticizing Reese for reasons that are not personalized. And racism would fall under that category of a personalized reason, IMO.
I think it's simply naive to suggest that there aren't Giants fans who have racist views and prejudices, and equally as naive to think that there aren't any of those fans here on BBI.
I don't think it's crazy, if you're going to suggest that I'm too quick to assume racism, to ask for a hypothetical perspective whereby one might reasonably and logically defend Gettleman while criticizing Reese for reasons that are not personalized. And racism would fall under that category of a personalized reason, IMO.
I think it's simply naive to suggest that there aren't Giants fans who have racist views and prejudices, and equally as naive to think that there aren't any of those fans here on BBI.
From what I've read, you don't only point to the Reese/Gettleman example, you also point to people's opinions of players to claim racism. There is no need to conjure up hypothetical perspectives to logically defend an opinion on Reese, Gettleman, a player, or anything - - its simply an opinion. I don't like onions.. do I need to provide sound logic for that, or may I dislike onions for whatever reason I want? Your racist labels are just as indefensible as the opinions you claim to be racist - - yet calling someone a racist is much more severe than, say, calling someone an onion-hater.
I haven't suggested there aren't racist views on this site, nor have I suggested there aren't racist Giants fans. Maybe both exist, but who cares?
Quote:
I don't think it's crazy, if you're going to suggest that I'm too quick to assume racism, to ask for a hypothetical perspective whereby one might reasonably and logically defend Gettleman while criticizing Reese for reasons that are not personalized. And racism would fall under that category of a personalized reason, IMO.
I think it's simply naive to suggest that there aren't Giants fans who have racist views and prejudices, and equally as naive to think that there aren't any of those fans here on BBI.
From what I've read, you don't only point to the Reese/Gettleman example, you also point to people's opinions of players to claim racism. There is no need to conjure up hypothetical perspectives to logically defend an opinion on Reese, Gettleman, a player, or anything - - its simply an opinion. I don't like onions.. do I need to provide sound logic for that, or may I dislike onions for whatever reason I want? Your racist labels are just as indefensible as the opinions you claim to be racist - - yet calling someone a racist is much more severe than, say, calling someone an onion-hater.
I haven't suggested there aren't racist views on this site, nor have I suggested there aren't racist Giants fans. Maybe both exist, but who cares?
I care, Bob. I think racism sucks. Seems like you might disagree. So be it.
When I see someone compare Michael Penix to Justin Fields, that tells me that they are only seeing two QBs who happen to be black, and nothing about their actually skills. That's racist, and I'm going to call it racist.
When I see someone claiming to have inside info that the Giants prefer Maye over Williams, I think that's an interesting nugget, but then when I go to take a look at that poster's history to see if they have ever dropped any info like that before, and instead stumble upon a number of posts about this year's QB prospects that include lumping Jayden Daniels in with Cameron Ward and comparing both to Malik Willis, it's very clear to me that the only thing those QBs have in common is that they're black, because there isn't all that much that Daniels and Ward have in common with each other, and not much that either has in common with Willis. Besides, of course, that they're all black QBs. That's racist, and I'm going to call it racist.
And so I brought up the Reese/Gettleman criticisms (and inconsistent application of those criticisms in a way that is sometimes much harsher toward Reese, who actually won two rings as GM) because I think that particular topic often includes racial undertones and unspoken biases. And yes, I think racism exists on BBI.
Sorry that you'd prefer to ignore it. If you like ignoring things, ignore me. I promise I won't be offended by that.
Quote:
It's disgusting that GD keeps throwing around racist accusations without merit and random posters.
One of the worst things you can do is label someone a racist. If you do, there should be verifiable evidence.
I wouldn't be surprised if GD called me a racist for not liking Lamar or Dwayne Haskins. Yet Jayden Daniels is my #1.
You need to take a chill pill, dude. It's fucked up what you're doing.
Hell, you might be right in one case or another, but before you cast those kind of aspersions, it needs to be more than a suspicion. Stop being a dick.
BTW, Caleb Williams "arm angles" doesn't do shit for me. I don't like him. I think he's going to bust hard. I do think he has tremendous arm talent, but I also think he's reckless and not a precision decision-maker and executor. I do think Daniels is that, and I'll take his athleticism over Williams' arm angles every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
I also think Jack Stroud is an idiot for his misplaced faith in DJ. But I don't assume he's a racist for it, that would be an assumption without evidence, and would make me an asshole. And I saw your post where you called him Jackkk. It was noticed. That's fucked up.
Back to the point of the thread, Milton... you're wrong. An agreement wouldn't cost as much as you say. And further, stop walking back your Rosen stuff. For all the talk of arm-talent, that's just one point of the overall eval, and you missed it, don't try to walk it back now... You were wrong, own up to it. He was a bust, period.
Respectfully, Jim, I'm not backing off either assertion. I'm aware of the gravity, and I made both claims knowing that it shouldn't be taken lightly. I also think there are many racist people who also happen to be football fans, so I don't know why it should be surprising that there might be a handful right here on BBI. If you have another explanation for fans that slam Reese but defend Gettleman, for example, I'd love to hear it.
In response to your post, I'll say that I pointed out the repeated and consistent denigration of multiple black QB prospects and the racist dog whistling that was accompanying it from regischarlotte, and I feel comfortable with the conclusion drawn.
As for Jack Stroud, if there's someone who you think can compare Michael Penix to Justin Fields for reasons that aren't racist, I'd love to know which dispensary you patronize. Link - ( New Window )
Being an idiot and not knowing the first thing about Penix doesn't make one racist. Even if I get on board with the idea that Jack assumed Penix is athletic QB like Fields because of his skin color, that means he has racial bias, perhaps prejudice. It doesn't mean racist. You can attack those prejudices and I would agree that they should be attacked. But jumping to "racist" when faced with evidence of racial bias is something that sadly happens to often. And nearly all of us have some form of racial prejudice. Some of it is benign, like preferring someone of your own race in a romantic partner, for example. Some of it can be problematic. But understand that the term racist means a lot more than racial prejudice. It carries with it malicious feelings towards people with regard to race. And that should require evidence to cast aspersions. I would not call Jack a white good wearing bigot bc he may be racially prejudiced when "evaluating" a black QB. Problematic opinion, yes. Attack that opinion, absolutely.
Caleb Williams "arm angles" doesn't do shit for me. I don't like him. I think he's going to bust hard. I do think he has tremendous arm talent, but I also think he's reckless and not a precision decision-maker and executor. I do think Daniels is that, and I'll take his athleticism over Williams' arm angles every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
You don't care about "arm angles" so I guess you don't think much of Patrick Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but Williams the last two years passing plus running TDs to INTs is something like 93:10. He doesn't turn the ball over as much as some of you are saying, and he doesn't throw picks even though he experienced a lot of pressure in 2023 and had no real playmakers to speak of. I suggest you watch the Waldman RSP film room study I posted a little while back. In that film they regard it as highly unlikely that a QB with as much talent as Williams can bust "hard" (as you say). The dude is able to make plays wherever he is on the field to almost any other point on the field. That's rare. Just because Williams sometimes extends plays beyond what is advised in college doesn't mean he won't learn to modify in the pros. Of course he can and will. Do we expect Jayden Daniels to routinely run into lineman and linebackers in the NFL? Because that is something he did in college with regularity. And with his slim waist and frame, inviting contact from defenders will be ill-advised.
The best QBs in the NFL today do play hero ball at times. Isn't that what we want? A trait that is present in the best QBs in the NFL? And add to it, supreme arm talent, arm angles, and creativity, isn't that almost the whole package?
I am still certain that Caleb Williams will go number one no matter who picks, whether it's the Bears, Steelers, Giants, Vikings, Patriots, etc. He is the one. The only QB I can possibly see jumping Williams is Maye, owing to his ideal size and elite arm.
Sorry that you'd prefer to ignore it. If you like ignoring things, ignore me. I promise I won't be offended by that.
Yes, I will gladly ignore you - not because I think racism doesn't suck, it's because your application of the term is inaccurate and insulting, and actually dilutes the impact.
Compare Penix and Fields? My god man, they're both black! You're a racist! That's weak.
I haven't read on this site where someone is negatively pre-judging or calling for the discrimination of a player because they are black. Or suggesting that a player cannot succeed because they are black. If that exists on this site, then I'll proudly join you in your contempt for that behavior.
Quote:
Caleb Williams "arm angles" doesn't do shit for me. I don't like him. I think he's going to bust hard. I do think he has tremendous arm talent, but I also think he's reckless and not a precision decision-maker and executor. I do think Daniels is that, and I'll take his athleticism over Williams' arm angles every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
You don't care about "arm angles" so I guess you don't think much of Patrick Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but Williams the last two years passing plus running TDs to INTs is something like 93:10. He doesn't turn the ball over as much as some of you are saying, and he doesn't throw picks even though he experienced a lot of pressure in 2023 and had no real playmakers to speak of. I suggest you watch the Waldman RSP film room study I posted a little while back. In that film they regard it as highly unlikely that a QB with as much talent as Williams can bust "hard" (as you say). The dude is able to make plays wherever he is on the field to almost any other point on the field. That's rare. Just because Williams sometimes extends plays beyond what is advised in college doesn't mean he won't learn to modify in the pros. Of course he can and will. Do we expect Jayden Daniels to routinely run into lineman and linebackers in the NFL? Because that is something he did in college with regularity. And with his slim waist and frame, inviting contact from defenders will be ill-advised.
The best QBs in the NFL today do play hero ball at times. Isn't that what we want? A trait that is present in the best QBs in the NFL? And add to it, supreme arm talent, arm angles, and creativity, isn't that almost the whole package?
I am still certain that Caleb Williams will go number one no matter who picks, whether it's the Bears, Steelers, Giants, Vikings, Patriots, etc. He is the one. The only QB I can possibly see jumping Williams is Maye, owing to his ideal size and elite arm.
It's not that arm angles don't matter. It's a plus for Caleb. But it's not more important than accuracy and decision making, or pocket awareness or ball security. All of those things I have Daniels as a superior performer, and the numbers back that up. As well as the fact he's a superior athlete. And I have a lot of questions about Caleb's EQ and leadership. This can undo a QB in a locker room. See Wilson, Zach.
Thanks for your thoughtful response above, Jim. I think there's a rather fine line separating prejudice/bias from overt racism, and there's an element of semantics to some degree, but I think your overall point is valid, and worthwhile of my own reflection on how to address those points in a way that is less quick to assume the writer's intent, and one that allows for stupidity to be a simpler explanation than racism (which, as you note, can be very complex and layered). Sort of a variation on Hanlon's razor, if you will.
I do appreciate the continued feedback. Please consider it well received.
Quote:
Is what I meant to say. Not "good". Phone posting.
Thanks for your thoughtful response above, Jim. I think there's a rather fine line separating prejudice/bias from overt racism, and there's an element of semantics to some degree, but I think your overall point is valid, and worthwhile of my own reflection on how to address those points in a way that is less quick to assume the writer's intent, and one that allows for stupidity to be a simpler explanation than racism (which, as you note, can be very complex and layered). Sort of a variation on Hanlon's razor, if you will.
I do appreciate the continued feedback. Please consider it well received.
Thanks GD. That's a thoughtful and kind response.
We're all a work in progress and the hope is we all just keep getting better, would make our world a better place.
It's not that arm angles don't matter. It's a plus for Caleb. But it's not more important than accuracy and decision making, or pocket awareness or ball security. All of those things I have Daniels as a superior performer, and the numbers back that up. As well as the fact he's a superior athlete. And I have a lot of questions about Caleb's EQ and leadership. This can undo a QB in a locker room. See Wilson, Zach.
I respect that you have a different analysis of the two. I would say Williams is better at every aspect throwing from the pocket including decision making and accuracy. There is real question if Daniels has enough arm to stick intermediate throws with regularity, whereas Williams sticks them off balance and off platform. Of course we've been over this. If what you say is what pro scouts believe, Daniels will go #1, because if you add that to the running he is the clear one. But if they do not agree with you, Williams will go #1.
Quote:
It's not that arm angles don't matter. It's a plus for Caleb. But it's not more important than accuracy and decision making, or pocket awareness or ball security. All of those things I have Daniels as a superior performer, and the numbers back that up. As well as the fact he's a superior athlete. And I have a lot of questions about Caleb's EQ and leadership. This can undo a QB in a locker room. See Wilson, Zach.
I respect that you have a different analysis of the two. I would say Williams is better at every aspect throwing from the pocket including decision making and accuracy. There is real question if Daniels has enough arm to stick intermediate throws with regularity, whereas Williams sticks them off balance and off platform. Of course we've been over this. If what you say is what pro scouts believe, Daniels will go #1, because if you add that to the running he is the clear one. But if they do not agree with you, Williams will go #1.
Not true. Not all teams agree. There have been already reports that not all teams agree on who the #1 QB in this class is, and it's not just about Williams and Daniels, either. Apparently there are teams with Maye as their #1.
I want you to check the below link out. This is a scouting report for Jayden Daniels. But at the bottom of the OP post you can also click the one for Williams. Spoiler alert, this guy, like you, has Williams over Daniels.
But, compare the two QB numbers. In both medium depth throws on and off platform Daniels has better completion percentage than Williams. Far superior on deep throws. He also had fewer sacks taken and fumbles than Williams.
Keep in mind this is a snapshot of 4 games scouted each, but they are the important games, too.
Check out the success rate for each against the blitz and when under pressure. Daniels performed better in both.
To me his own data belies his conclusions.
I'm less interested in his opinion as I am the data he compiled. Couple this info with the fact that Daniels undoubtedly played tougher comp, too.
Btw, Williams went 0-4 against those opponents (Oregon, Washington, Notre Dame, and Utah).
Daniels was 1-3 vs FSU, Ole Miss, Missouri, and Alabama, to be fair.
I'm less interested in his opinion as I am the data he compiled. Couple this info with the fact that Daniels undoubtedly played tougher comp, too.
Btw, Williams went 0-4 against those opponents (Oregon, Washington, Notre Dame, and Utah).
Daniels was 1-3 vs FSU, Ole Miss, Missouri, and Alabama, to be fair.
I'm familiar with this guy's scouting reports. He's interesting. But thanks for taking the time to share, anyway. The numbers you are quoting are based a small sample sizes. I don't doubt Daniels is generally accurate, but so is Williams. Williams' superior arm talent relates to arm strength and ability to create in second reaction plays, off platform, multiple arm slots. He's a clearly superior passer and I think guys like Cosell will back that up when they do their final pre-draft evals. It's notable that Jeremiah, Waldman, Matt Harmon and most other analysts are saying Williams is the clear QB1. Though yes there are a few that say Maye, and fewer still who say Daniels. The position is QB, not RB, and a pass first QB with elite passing should and will go before a run first QB, with elite running and solid passing. I like Daniels. He has a great deep ball. But he has both a lower ceiling and a lower floor than Williams in my opinion. But I'd be thrilled if the Giants got him. Make no mistake.