Does Spagnuolo Belong In The HOF?

b)you have to balance that argument with the fact that Spagnuolo has also been the DC for a few of the worst defenses in NFL history

that Spags is the greatest assistant coach of all time. I love the guy, but nah.

Has been excellent for the Chiefs and was fantastic for the Giants in 2008 and 2016. But he's a guy who's successful when he's had the horses. The 2014-2015 defenses were brutal and I'm not placing all the blame on him, that's Reese and Ross, but his units were pitiful.

Assistants who deserve more are Jim Johnson and Monte Kiffin, perhaps also Dick Lebeau, and those are just DC's from the 2000s.

You can't remove his spectacular failure with the Rams. It was bad.

In comment 16386895 Toth029 said:

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Has been excellent for the Chiefs and was fantastic for the Giants in 2008 and 2016. But he's a guy who's successful when he's had the horses. The 2014-2015 defenses were brutal and I'm not placing all the blame on him, that's Reese and Ross, but his units were pitiful.

You can never separate the players and the coaches.

Find me examples of coordinators that succeeded without the horses. You need good players to be successful. And no matter how good of a coach you are, you won't succeed with bad players.

Remember the 4 Aces package? That was Spags and that to my memory wasn't done before him like that. Strahan, JPP, Tuck, and Osi, IIRC.

His defensive game plan in Super Bowl 42 should easily and at least be thought of alongside of Belichick's in 91.

That were terrible under Spags, they were some of the worst rosters ever. You look at that Rams team he had, he had almost nobody on both sides of the ball. I think Steven Jackson was the only good player.

The Saints team had checked out that year of Payton's suspension. He gets way too much blame for poor performances from GMs, particularly with that Rams team. Honestly that team shouldn't have won a single game. He had Keith Null as a starting QB at times there. Yeesh.

In comment 16387060 Sammo85 said:

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You can't remove his spectacular failure with the Rams. It was bad.

Spags was there 09-11, those 3 rosters are pretty awful.

we're talking the Marc Bulger/Sam Bradford years.

Why would he be considered?

In comment 16387094 Rory said:

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In comment 16387060 Sammo85 said: Quote: You can't remove his spectacular failure with the Rams. It was bad. Spags was there 09-11, those 3 rosters are pretty awful. we're talking the Marc Bulger/Sam Bradford years.

Right and both of those guys spent a lot of time injured/on IR or just not healthy enough to play.

CR

no. I don't think so. I think he should be in the hall of sometimes he does a really good job sometimes he doesn't do a good job at all.

In comment 16386896 Toth029 said:

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Assistants who deserve more are Jim Johnson and Monte Kiffin, perhaps also Dick Lebeau, and those are just DC's from the 2000s.

Which one of those guys has won 3 super bowls?

Lebeau is the only one who can even compare to Spags. He's better than Jim Johnson or Monte Kiffin at this point

And that should be changed.

He’s definitely in the convo for top 5 DC of all time

In comment 16386890 Chris in Philly said:

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that Spags is the greatest assistant coach of all time. I love the guy, but nah.

Agreed. You have to create a very, very, VERY narrow category for Spags to be in the conversation.

There are lots of comparable or better DCs who became head coaches and thrived: Tom Landry, Bill Parcells and Bill Belichik from the Giants' recent history. (John Fox, not quite as good as a DC.) So you have to leave out Spags' head coaching career, which was not good. But he's not in a category of assistants who never became head coaches, where he'd be competing with Wink Martindale and a few others. He's sort of in a category of "Coaches who were really great assistants, with ups and downs, and we're just going to avert our eyes from their bad head coaching."

Doesn't sound like HOF to me.

In comment 16387146 Paulie Walnuts said:

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CR

Pete- like I said initially it wasn’t my idea lol! Just sharing an article I stumbled across.

stifling defenses. They allowed 417 yards and 35 points last year, including a game tying TD drive and two point conversion with five minutes left.

He's had a great career as a DC but what distinguishes him from, say, Bud Carson? Bill Arnsparger? If Tampa had a Patrick Mahomes in the late '90s-early 2000s, think Monte Kiffin would have more than one ring? Kiffin had a top ten defense for all but two of his 13 seasons in Tampa.

How many coordinators who've never been successful head coaches get in?

I'm a huge Spags fan for a number of reasons. I will be eternally grateful for that underdog Superbowl win he helped deliver on my birthday was something I will never forget. He also just comes across a humble, super hard guy.

Anyway, he is in unique territory as the only coordinator to win multiple Superbowls with different teams. If his defense can stop SF, it definitely is worth the discussion.

Someone said it on a different thread. He might be one of the best "big game" defensive coordinators in history. Going to be fun to watch - I'm rooting for the Chiefs basically because of Spags.

In comment 16387094 Rory said:

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In comment 16387060 Sammo85 said: Quote: You can't remove his spectacular failure with the Rams. It was bad. Spags was there 09-11, those 3 rosters are pretty awful. we're talking the Marc Bulger/Sam Bradford years.

Again, they count no matter what.

Was in the initial group of 2024 senior candidates as a contributor along with several scouts C.O.Brocato of the Houston Oilers and Lloyd Wells of The Chiefs.
Bill Nunn, the super scout for the Steelers is already in. So coaches and scouts are eligible for the HOF

I love Spags, but no.

In comment 16387238 Sammo85 said:

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In comment 16387094 Rory said: Quote: In comment 16387060 Sammo85 said: Quote: You can't remove his spectacular failure with the Rams. It was bad. Spags was there 09-11, those 3 rosters are pretty awful. we're talking the Marc Bulger/Sam Bradford years. Again, they count no matter what.

Within appropriate context.

but Dick LeBeau is likely the best DC of all time. Wade Phillips wasn't chopped liver, either.

But likely the greatest DC, had he stayed DC, is Bill Belichick.

In comment 16387353 allstarjim said:

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In comment 16387238 Sammo85 said: Quote: In comment 16387094 Rory said: Quote: In comment 16387060 Sammo85 said: Quote: You can't remove his spectacular failure with the Rams. It was bad. Spags was there 09-11, those 3 rosters are pretty awful. we're talking the Marc Bulger/Sam Bradford years. Again, they count no matter what. Within appropriate context.

No. You’re either a winner or a loser. Spags was a loser as a HC. He was quite bad with the Rams. They were bad because he did a bad job there.

Wow.

In comment 16386887 Greg from LI said:

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b)you have to balance that argument with the fact that Spagnuolo has also been the DC for a few of the worst defenses in NFL history

Beat me to it. A few of the historically worst defenses and with different franchises.

Plus, have his good defenses ever finished top 5?

I think he is one of the most overrated DCs.