|
|
|
| Quote: |
| 6. New York Giants Rome Odunze, WR, Washington The run on pass-catchers is here in earnest! The Giants miss out on the top three quarterbacks, but the rumors swirling at the Senior Bowl among agents is that the Giants are more likely to add a veteran free agent QB to compete with Daniel Jones than draft one early. It would allow general manager Joe Schoen to pick up a true WR1 in Odunze, who led the nation in receiving in 2023 (1,640 yards). At 6-foot-3 and 215 pounds, Odunze is a physical and aggressive player before and after the catch. He's a dominant option on both back-shoulder fades and breaking routes. No matter who is throwing the ball, Odunze would immediately boost the Giants' offense. |
No idea what the report is base don, but I think I would rather watch him over any of the current options on the roster... even if we draft a QB (unless it is one of the top 3)
It's better to continue to ignore QBs every draft?
My guess is that the Giants will sign a veteran QB before the draft to compete with Jones, and because he may not be ready to start week one. I would also be surprised if the Giants don't draft a QB by the end of day two. Whether that comes from a trade up is as yet unknown, but I expect Schoen and Daboll to draft a QB this year.
Quote:
which is another reason retaining Tyrod makes a lot of sense, from the team's point of view. Would not be surprised to see Jones, Tyrod, and DeVito back.
+1
Daboll also knows it's probably his turn on the good ship Scapegoat, and may be more comfortable putting his job security on veteran QBs than on a rookie.
OK, I'll play.
If he feels "more comfortable" with a veteran (Taylor in this case, since you gave Jon's post a +1) over a rookie QB, why in the world would they choose Taylor, who himself has shown he can't stay healthy?
If they are content with going with a veteran, wouldn't they feel "more comfortable" with someone who can actually stay on the field for 17 games?
Quote:
In comment 16388917 JonC said:
Quote:
which is another reason retaining Tyrod makes a lot of sense, from the team's point of view. Would not be surprised to see Jones, Tyrod, and DeVito back.
+1
Daboll also knows it's probably his turn on the good ship Scapegoat, and may be more comfortable putting his job security on veteran QBs than on a rookie.
OK, I'll play.
If he feels "more comfortable" with a veteran (Taylor in this case, since you gave Jon's post a +1) over a rookie QB, why in the world would they choose Taylor, who himself has shown he can't stay healthy?
If they are content with going with a veteran, wouldn't they feel "more comfortable" with someone who can actually stay on the field for 17 games?
The rare valid point
The top QBs are likely out of reach at 6. No guarantee a second tier QB they want will be available, unless they want to ignore value at #6.
Going after a top vet (if one is available) is an option, but the resource allocation for this vet and DJ would be astronomical.
But, if we cross a top vet and a top draftee off the list, it makes sense to go after a lower tier vet QB. A decent backup is needed, and it doesn't preclude them from drafting a second tier prospect if one is within reach. If that backup is TT, fine. If it's fresh blood, better, IMO.
The only scenario that doesn't warrant retaining TT, or going after a similar level vet, is if we have a trade in place to jump to the head of the draft line.
Next year, IF things go like they did this year (a likely scenrio), they'll opt out of DJ's deal, fire Daboll AND Schoen.
Then the NYG start over....AGAIN.
If they trade up - take a QB - Joe and Davoli buy themselves some time.
Quote:
In comment 16388917 JonC said:
Quote:
which is another reason retaining Tyrod makes a lot of sense, from the team's point of view. Would not be surprised to see Jones, Tyrod, and DeVito back.
+1
Daboll also knows it's probably his turn on the good ship Scapegoat, and may be more comfortable putting his job security on veteran QBs than on a rookie.
OK, I'll play.
If he feels "more comfortable" with a veteran (Taylor in this case, since you gave Jon's post a +1) over a rookie QB, why in the world would they choose Taylor, who himself has shown he can't stay healthy?
If they are content with going with a veteran, wouldn't they feel "more comfortable" with someone who can actually stay on the field for 17 games?
Because they're expecting Jones to be ready to start by opening day or shortly after. Remember - no one works harder than Daniel.
Even if it isn't Taylor, Daniel is the guy making $47M in 2024. He'll be the guy over Tannehill, Mariota, or whomever. Then they'll go 5-12 and everybody who always the Jones contract will pretend they saw this coming all along. And they'll hire Ben Johnson or Slowik and repeat everything all over again.
Next year, IF things go like they did this year (a likely scenrio), they'll opt out of DJ's deal, fire Daboll AND Schoen.
Then the NYG start over....AGAIN.
If they trade up - take a QB - Joe and Davoli buy themselves some time.
I'll tack on some pure speculation just to take it a step farther. When that regime change inevitably happens as DJ hangs his third HC pelt on the wall on his own way out, John Mara will finally usher nephew Tim into the driver's seat with a lifetime GM appointment, and all systems will be pointed toward an at-all-costs campaign to draft Arch Manning.
Quote:
This move is the Fast Pass Lane to getting fired.
Next year, IF things go like they did this year (a likely scenrio), they'll opt out of DJ's deal, fire Daboll AND Schoen.
Then the NYG start over....AGAIN.
If they trade up - take a QB - Joe and Davoli buy themselves some time.
I'll tack on some pure speculation just to take it a step farther. When that regime change inevitably happens as DJ hangs his third HC pelt on the wall on his own way out, John Mara will finally usher nephew Tim into the driver's seat with a lifetime GM appointment, and all systems will be pointed toward an at-all-costs campaign to draft Arch Manning.
Yup. You can practically taste the bread sticks and the never ending pasta bowl.
Quote:
This move is the Fast Pass Lane to getting fired.
Next year, IF things go like they did this year (a likely scenrio), they'll opt out of DJ's deal, fire Daboll AND Schoen.
Then the NYG start over....AGAIN.
If they trade up - take a QB - Joe and Davoli buy themselves some time.
I'll tack on some pure speculation just to take it a step farther. When that regime change inevitably happens as DJ hangs his third HC pelt on the wall on his own way out, John Mara will finally usher nephew Tim into the driver's seat with a lifetime GM appointment, and all systems will be pointed toward an at-all-costs campaign to draft Arch Manning.
OMG - that would be the ultimate Jints Central move.
Looking forward to another blah season where I pay more attention to other games at the sports bar.
Giant fans will not accept McDonnell as GM. It will be loud and ugly. There is a loud, vocal contingent on twitter/x who are done with Jones and fed up with Mara. A lot of people on BBI as well. We've seen more calls on WFAN questioning this ownership. That gets back to Tisch I'm sure.
If the Mara side had 100% control I could see it, they don't. Are the Maras wealthy enough to buy out Tisch? I don't know. I think it's more likely that the Maras sell.
No idea what the report is base don, but I think I would rather watch him over any of the current options on the roster... even if we draft a QB (unless it is one of the top 3)
I would be fine with Minshew, who is a better QB than Jones. He just led the Colts to the playoffs.
I actually don't think Schoen, Mara et al want competition for the $160M Man. They want insurance. Minshew will create a QB controversy the first day of camp. And I believe they want to avoid that.
Keeping Taylor is safe and comfortable.
And the Maras and Tisches are making money hand over fist. Fans show up and pay for the parking and the $12 beers. Doesn't matter to the Maras or Tisches if it's Giants or Cowboys fans.
And that dump just got the 2026 World Cup final. These owners are pigs in shit right now.
One of the things one tries to do in the military when a mission doesn't go the way it was planned is step back and figure out what went wrong. In the Giants case what went wrong at the start of the year was that the OL, which was made up almost entirely of unproven young players (Ezudu, Lemieux, McKethan and Neal from left to right to be specific), was historically bad, the receiver group was dinged up and the defence didn't play at all well. In fact as I was watching things evolve it seemed Daniel Jones was the least of their problems.
My own sense is that this is still essentially the same team that won 10 games in 2022 including a road playoff game and that once the OL was stabilized with the return of Thomas and Schmitz and the arrival of Pugh and Phillips, the receiver corps got Wan'Dale and Waller back, and the sdefence started to play better and take the ball away won 4 of their final 7 games this year (and probably should have been 5-2 as they had an eminently makeable FG attempt to win the Rams game at the end.)
My expectation and I am not one at all for making unreasonable expectations is that the Giants head into 2024 picking up where they left off in 2022 or 2023 take your pick and whoever is at QB at least get back in the playoff hunt.
One of the things one tries to do in the military when a mission doesn't go the way it was planned is step back and figure out what went wrong. In the Giants case what went wrong at the start of the year was that the OL, which was made up almost entirely of unproven young players (Ezudu, Lemieux, McKethan and Neal from left to right to be specific), was historically bad, the receiver group was dinged up and the defence didn't play at all well. In fact as I was watching things evolve it seemed Daniel Jones was the least of their problems.
My own sense is that this is still essentially the same team that won 10 games in 2022 including a road playoff game and that once the OL was stabilized with the return of Thomas and Schmitz and the arrival of Pugh and Phillips, the receiver corps got Wan'Dale and Waller back, and the sdefence started to play better and take the ball away won 4 of their final 7 games this year (and probably should have been 5-2 as they had an eminently makeable FG attempt to win the Rams game at the end.)
My expectation and I am not one at all for making unreasonable expectations is that the Giants head into 2024 picking up where they left off in 2022 or 2023 take your pick and whoever is at QB at least get back in the playoff hunt.
What country's military were you a member of?
I’m confused. Is this thread about selecting a WR or signing a veteran QB?
Does Daboll get fired if he leads the 2024 team to 8-9 wins? That may be feasible even with a bunch of mediocrities playing QB.
This is one of my favorite types of posts here and on Twitter/X. "What's a matter, pussy? Can't handle a decade of pathetic football?"
If Daniel Jones were a CO he would've been fragged 3 campaigns ago.
Does Daboll get fired if he leads the 2024 team to 8-9 wins? That may be feasible even with a bunch of mediocrities playing QB.
I think in 75 percent of scenarios he's safe with 8 or 9 wins. The exception would be if they started hot and lost a bunch of games down the stretch, or if there was another expected assistant coach exodus.
Use the $10M+ they spent on Tyrod this year to bring in a quality guard in free agency.
Quote:
and acquire a QB late first or early 2nd, would anyone hate that result?
Yes, you don't take a flier on a QB given our roster. You either take one that you think will transform your organization or you build around Jones. To take a second round pick QB is stupid strategy.
Disagree.
If you like a QB and he's there, take him. That's not a flier. That's an investment.
Building around Jones for the long haul is a mistake given his performance and injury history.
BBV - ( New Window )
Next year, IF things go like they did this year (a likely scenrio), they'll opt out of DJ's deal, fire Daboll AND Schoen.
Then the NYG start over....AGAIN.
If they trade up - take a QB - Joe and Davoli buy themselves some time.
1,000% agree. If anything, drafting and developing a rookie QB would buy the regime another year. I have to think Daboll is pounding the table for a QB in the draft.
Much better that they hang those careers on a shot, crap veteran.
Quote:
This move is the Fast Pass Lane to getting fired.
Next year, IF things go like they did this year (a likely scenrio), they'll opt out of DJ's deal, fire Daboll AND Schoen.
Then the NYG start over....AGAIN.
If they trade up - take a QB - Joe and Davoli buy themselves some time.
I'll tack on some pure speculation just to take it a step farther. When that regime change inevitably happens as DJ hangs his third HC pelt on the wall on his own way out, John Mara will finally usher nephew Tim into the driver's seat with a lifetime GM appointment, and all systems will be pointed toward an at-all-costs campaign to draft Arch Manning.
Honestly, they should just do it. It's what they've been dying to do since Chris was on the short list of candidates in 2007, so just end the charade and stamp the family name on the football operation.
If nothing else, it'll stop people from pretending the opinions of Mara family members don't carry a ton of weight with whomever is nominally in charge of the football side of things.
What does it matter if Tim McDonnell isn't qualified to be an NFL GM? What the hell are his qualifications to be the director of player personnel other than being Wellington's grandson.
Over simplifying the fact that you need Chicago, Washington, or New England to give up their picks... ALL OF WHICH NEED A QB! It's not happening!!!
Quote:
If they want a QB they have to buck up and pay the price. The road to a QB at 6 is closed so until they find another road they will keep saying no QB Rd 1.
Over simplifying the fact that you need Chicago, Washington, or New England to give up their picks... ALL OF WHICH NEED A QB! It's not happening!!!
Chicago doesnt NEED a QB. They can be interested in one but its not a glaring need like Washington and NE
Quote:
And focus on his point that the Giants have been close to a .500 team apart from 2023’s early season implosion.
Does Daboll get fired if he leads the 2024 team to 8-9 wins? That may be feasible even with a bunch of mediocrities playing QB.
I think in 75 percent of scenarios he's safe with 8 or 9 wins. The exception would be if they started hot and lost a bunch of games down the stretch, or if there was another expected assistant coach exodus.
Daboll isn't getting fired if he gets 8 or 9 wins. That's a season that most likely signals progress - unless it's a season like we just had where we could have won that many games - but you could see from the eyeball test this was not a .500 team.
Honestly, they should just do it. It's what they've been dying to do since Chris was on the short list of candidates in 2007, so just end the charade and stamp the family name on the football operation.
If nothing else, it'll stop people from pretending the opinions of Mara family members don't carry a ton of weight with whomever is nominally in charge of the football side of things.
What does it matter if Tim McDonnell isn't qualified to be an NFL GM? What the hell are his qualifications to be the director of player personnel other than being Wellington's grandson.
Yeah, ironically, if Schoen/Daboll fail, it might be best for them to just go all-in on the family side of things and drop the charade already. At least this would presumably help them implement a top-down system, which a think works better for a football operation that constant committee/factional decision-making.
The other benefit is if this approach fails, it might finally prompt the Mara family to fuck-off from the football side of things forever.
Quote:
Honestly, they should just do it. It's what they've been dying to do since Chris was on the short list of candidates in 2007, so just end the charade and stamp the family name on the football operation.
If nothing else, it'll stop people from pretending the opinions of Mara family members don't carry a ton of weight with whomever is nominally in charge of the football side of things.
What does it matter if Tim McDonnell isn't qualified to be an NFL GM? What the hell are his qualifications to be the director of player personnel other than being Wellington's grandson.
Yeah, ironically, if Schoen/Daboll fail, it might be best for them to just go all-in on the family side of things and drop the charade already. At least this would presumably help them implement a top-down system, which a think works better for a football operation that constant committee/factional decision-making.
The other benefit is if this approach fails, it might finally prompt the Mara family to fuck-off from the football side of things forever.
There is some merit to this. Let them run amok and let it all crash and burn for a decade before they learn the lesson Wellington learned. The problem is I'd rather not see another lost decade. Also they could easily go full heel and decide they're okay with being at the bottom as long as they can continue to play GM.
Quote:
to reach for a QB at six just to have one?
This is THE ISSUE.
I have not been a DJ fan from the beginning but you can't force a pick if it isn't there. That's repeating same error.
It's possible they don't rate any of the qbs outside the top 1 or 2 and they can't realistically get those so they are looking for good options later on to develop. It's possible they like the ones anticipated to go in day 2 better than the other 3-4 options later in rd 1. We don't know. Just because we are great need of a GOOD top QB doesn't mean they need to waste a high pick on one they don't believe in. There are too too many holes.
I don't care how they do it, they have to draft a QB and get rid of Jones. He's terrible. Trade up if possible. Otherwise draft one late first (in a smaller trade up) or 2nd round. Jones must be replaced by any means necessary. This team is stuck in zombie land. We're a running joke of mismanagement.
Quote:
In comment 16389184 rsjem1979 said:
Quote:
Honestly, they should just do it. It's what they've been dying to do since Chris was on the short list of candidates in 2007, so just end the charade and stamp the family name on the football operation.
If nothing else, it'll stop people from pretending the opinions of Mara family members don't carry a ton of weight with whomever is nominally in charge of the football side of things.
What does it matter if Tim McDonnell isn't qualified to be an NFL GM? What the hell are his qualifications to be the director of player personnel other than being Wellington's grandson.
Yeah, ironically, if Schoen/Daboll fail, it might be best for them to just go all-in on the family side of things and drop the charade already. At least this would presumably help them implement a top-down system, which a think works better for a football operation that constant committee/factional decision-making.
The other benefit is if this approach fails, it might finally prompt the Mara family to fuck-off from the football side of things forever.
There is some merit to this. Let them run amok and let it all crash and burn for a decade before they learn the lesson Wellington learned. The problem is I'd rather not see another lost decade. Also they could easily go full heel and decide they're okay with being at the bottom as long as they can continue to play GM.
Tisch would probably step in if they took over football decision making and ran it into the ground even further, but he's also probably already an existing barrier from Chris and Tim McD taking more power.
Quote:
In comment 16388861 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
to reach for a QB at six just to have one?
This is THE ISSUE.
I have not been a DJ fan from the beginning but you can't force a pick if it isn't there. That's repeating same error.
It's possible they don't rate any of the qbs outside the top 1 or 2 and they can't realistically get those so they are looking for good options later on to develop. It's possible they like the ones anticipated to go in day 2 better than the other 3-4 options later in rd 1. We don't know. Just because we are great need of a GOOD top QB doesn't mean they need to waste a high pick on one they don't believe in. There are too too many holes.
I don't care how they do it, they have to draft a QB and get rid of Jones. He's terrible. Trade up if possible. Otherwise draft one late first (in a smaller trade up) or 2nd round. Jones must be replaced by any means necessary. This team is stuck in zombie land. We're a running joke of mismanagement.
I agree that Jones needs to be replaced. I would not do it at 6 if we don't have a 1st Round grade on any of the QB's remaining at that point. You don't reach for a Day 2 talent at 6 because you are looking to replace Jones, you take a Day 2 guy on Day 2. Despite the teams needing QB's, the last draft where a player with Day 2 grades went in Round 1 is 2020 (Jordan Love). You did not see teams overdrafting Davis Mills or Kyle Trask in 2021, Ridder/Willis/Corral in 2022, or Will Levis in 2023.
Quote:
In comment 16388920 Festina Lente said:
Quote:
In comment 16388861 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
to reach for a QB at six just to have one?
This is THE ISSUE.
I have not been a DJ fan from the beginning but you can't force a pick if it isn't there. That's repeating same error.
It's possible they don't rate any of the qbs outside the top 1 or 2 and they can't realistically get those so they are looking for good options later on to develop. It's possible they like the ones anticipated to go in day 2 better than the other 3-4 options later in rd 1. We don't know. Just because we are great need of a GOOD top QB doesn't mean they need to waste a high pick on one they don't believe in. There are too too many holes.
I don't care how they do it, they have to draft a QB and get rid of Jones. He's terrible. Trade up if possible. Otherwise draft one late first (in a smaller trade up) or 2nd round. Jones must be replaced by any means necessary. This team is stuck in zombie land. We're a running joke of mismanagement.
I agree that Jones needs to be replaced. I would not do it at 6 if we don't have a 1st Round grade on any of the QB's remaining at that point. You don't reach for a Day 2 talent at 6 because you are looking to replace Jones, you take a Day 2 guy on Day 2. Despite the teams needing QB's, the last draft where a player with Day 2 grades went in Round 1 is 2020 (Jordan Love). You did not see teams overdrafting Davis Mills or Kyle Trask in 2021, Ridder/Willis/Corral in 2022, or Will Levis in 2023.
You are making too much sense, how refreshing.
Quote:
In comment 16389368 Manhattan said:
Quote:
In comment 16388920 Festina Lente said:
Quote:
In comment 16388861 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
to reach for a QB at six just to have one?
This is THE ISSUE.
I have not been a DJ fan from the beginning but you can't force a pick if it isn't there. That's repeating same error.
It's possible they don't rate any of the qbs outside the top 1 or 2 and they can't realistically get those so they are looking for good options later on to develop. It's possible they like the ones anticipated to go in day 2 better than the other 3-4 options later in rd 1. We don't know. Just because we are great need of a GOOD top QB doesn't mean they need to waste a high pick on one they don't believe in. There are too too many holes.
I don't care how they do it, they have to draft a QB and get rid of Jones. He's terrible. Trade up if possible. Otherwise draft one late first (in a smaller trade up) or 2nd round. Jones must be replaced by any means necessary. This team is stuck in zombie land. We're a running joke of mismanagement.
I agree that Jones needs to be replaced. I would not do it at 6 if we don't have a 1st Round grade on any of the QB's remaining at that point. You don't reach for a Day 2 talent at 6 because you are looking to replace Jones, you take a Day 2 guy on Day 2. Despite the teams needing QB's, the last draft where a player with Day 2 grades went in Round 1 is 2020 (Jordan Love). You did not see teams overdrafting Davis Mills or Kyle Trask in 2021, Ridder/Willis/Corral in 2022, or Will Levis in 2023.
You are making too much sense, how refreshing.
I should have added it to my post, but I absolutely would inquire about what it would take to get us in a position to draft a QB that we have a 1st Round grade on if we think all could be gone at 6.
IMO, Fans are not going to accept a QB drafted after round #1. That post-round1 QB could change our minds if he knocks our socks off in the preseason games.
Quote:
Maybe a low cost backup, but not a guy to compete for starting job. They have too much money tied up already. They'll draft someone at some point.
IMO, Fans are not going to accept a QB drafted after round #1. That post-round1 QB could change our minds if he knocks our socks off in the preseason games.
Quote:
In comment 16389417 UberAlias said:
Quote:
Maybe a low cost backup, but not a guy to compete for starting job. They have too much money tied up already. They'll draft someone at some point.
IMO, Fans are not going to accept a QB drafted after round #1. That post-round1 QB could change our minds if he knocks our socks off in the preseason games.
LOL. They don’t get a say.
Fans have definitely gotten a say in the not-so-distant past.