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| The delay in the timeline in the defensive coordinator hunt is because the Giants did not land their top two targets, according to a source familiar with the search. They have since recalibrated. There was some concern from candidates given that Brian Daboll and this regime enter year 3 with pressure to show progress off a disappointing season. Who knows what happens if 2024 does not go well. |
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| There is no limit on the Giants defensive coordinator search. It does not have to be done by today or this weekend. Keep that in mind. |
And Giants fans have missed a decade of winning football.
I'd guess Babich who was always a long shot.
+1
Ranaan also said Kafka was as good as gone... so yeah...
I do not see it at all as that. With Dennard Wilson he and Ran Carthon have a relationship and Tennessee just got a new HC so that buys a decent sized honeymoon. If Green Bay regresses LaFleur could be out of a job so I don't think Giants are unique in that regard. Wilson also mentioned that the Giants have a lot of the coaching staff in place (is anyone really looking to fire Patterson or Henderson when both have done well?). With the Titans Wilson will have the ability to select who he wants to coach with. In Buffalo, McDermott is rightfully taking a lot of heat for their underperformance in the playoffs. Babich may have decided that he did not want to move his family versus staying with the same organization where he knows the players, coaches, etc.
I'm now getting slightly concerned - based on that Senior Bowl rumor that Sean shared - that they feel enough pressure to believe a rookie QB won't save them, and will bust up the cap to bring an average veteran QB to try to traige them with Jones to 8-9 or 9-8.
I can see a scenario where they don't land one of the top-3, don't feel confident enough in the next 3, and one of those next 3 (Nix, McCarthy, Penix) has a great rookie season and Schoen/Daboll are toast.
And the only people who want to work with Belichick are his kids, Josh McDaniels, Matt Patricia, Joe Judge, etc. If you think nepotism is bad with the Maras look at what Belichick set up in New England and failed miserably once they lost Brady.
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We should have cut ties and went after Bill. This ‘24 season doesn’t look promising.
And the only people who want to work with Belichick are his kids, Josh McDaniels, Matt Patricia, Joe Judge, etc. If you think nepotism is bad with the Maras look at what Belichick set up in New England and failed miserably once they lost Brady.
Really don't understand people pinning for Belichick. Rather Vrabel.
I believe Wilson was one of the guys they were considering and probably Babbich...
But also believe Daly has been one of the top guys too...
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It validates that external views are questioning Schoen & Daboll's job performance, and puts pressure on them to get their asses moving in the right direction at QB.
I do not see it at all as that. With Dennard Wilson he and Ran Carthon have a relationship and Tennessee just got a new HC so that buys a decent sized honeymoon. If Green Bay regresses LaFleur could be out of a job so I don't think Giants are unique in that regard. Wilson also mentioned that the Giants have a lot of the coaching staff in place (is anyone really looking to fire Patterson or Henderson when both have done well?). With the Titans Wilson will have the ability to select who he wants to coach with. In Buffalo, McDermott is rightfully taking a lot of heat for their underperformance in the playoffs. Babich may have decided that he did not want to move his family versus staying with the same organization where he knows the players, coaches, etc.
That's fine. See what you want.
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It validates that external views are questioning Schoen & Daboll's job performance, and puts pressure on them to get their asses moving in the right direction at QB.
I'm now getting slightly concerned - based on that Senior Bowl rumor that Sean shared - that they feel enough pressure to believe a rookie QB won't save them, and will bust up the cap to bring an average veteran QB to try to traige them with Jones to 8-9 or 9-8.
I can see a scenario where they don't land one of the top-3, don't feel confident enough in the next 3, and one of those next 3 (Nix, McCarthy, Penix) has a great rookie season and Schoen/Daboll are toast.
If they keep making poor decisions at QB then they should be toast.
NFL, Not-For-Long.
It isn't unreasonable to think the NYG staff are kinda on the hot seat whereas a brand new coaching staff has more rope.
You could also make an educated guess that Daly is one of the front runners.
Whether Jordan is making an educated guess here or has a good source is unknown. But he's not saying anything different than many posters on this site have already said.
What really doesn't matter is the delay. They need to get this right. There is no hurry.
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It validates that external views are questioning Schoen & Daboll's job performance, and puts pressure on them to get their asses moving in the right direction at QB.
I'm now getting slightly concerned - based on that Senior Bowl rumor that Sean shared - that they feel enough pressure to believe a rookie QB won't save them, and will bust up the cap to bring an average veteran QB to try to traige them with Jones to 8-9 or 9-8.
I can see a scenario where they don't land one of the top-3, don't feel confident enough in the next 3, and one of those next 3 (Nix, McCarthy, Penix) has a great rookie season and Schoen/Daboll are toast.
Much more likely is that they feel they need to win 9 games so they massively restructure Jones' contract, bring down his cap hit for this year, and they go on a spending spree to try to win now. They will give a massive, backloaded contract to a B- WR like Hollywood Brown, still go 6-11 and then we will have to go into 2025 with a new HC and GM while owing massive cap hits to Jones, and whatever other mediocre players the Giants bring in this year. And in 2025 and 2026 we will be saying "Well the new GM is still cleaning up the mess from the last guy."
And if you don't think that could happen, its exactly what Gettleman did, and its basically what Schoen did last year by structuring Jones' contract to defer money to the future so they could tag Barkley
You could also make an educated guess that Daly is one of the front runners.
Whether Jordan is making an educated guess here based or has a good source is unknown. But he's not saying anything different than many posters on this site have already said.
What really doesn't matter is the delay. They need to get this right. There is no hurry.
Still don't know why we're not looking at previous HCs like Staley, Vrabel and Rivera. Rivera and Staley have already interviewed for DC positions this offseason.
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if you were going to make an educated guess, if it's not Daly at this point, then things are looking a bit more shaky.
Still don't know why we're not looking at previous HCs like Staley, Vrabel and Rivera. Rivera and Staley have already interviewed for DC positions this offseason.
The answer might be that Dabes is slightly insecure at best or very difficult to work with at worst.
But I know most want to blame the Wink thing entirely on Wink.
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if you were going to make an educated guess, if it's not Daly at this point, then things are looking a bit more shaky.
Still don't know why we're not looking at previous HCs like Staley, Vrabel and Rivera. Rivera and Staley have already interviewed for DC positions this offseason.
Rivera and Vrabel may not want to come here.
If you don't think DC candidates look at this job and know how much harder it will be with a coach who could be on the hot seat and an offense that can't play complementary football, it is not surprising that other options look more appealing.
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if you were going to make an educated guess, if it's not Daly at this point, then things are looking a bit more shaky.
Still don't know why we're not looking at previous HCs like Staley, Vrabel and Rivera. Rivera and Staley have already interviewed for DC positions this offseason.
Because Daboll is obviously feeling the heat and likely doesn’t want to be looking over his shoulder. We just seen what happened with another coach that had his eyes on a HC job
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In comment 16388905 Eric from BBI said:
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if you were going to make an educated guess, if it's not Daly at this point, then things are looking a bit more shaky.
Still don't know why we're not looking at previous HCs like Staley, Vrabel and Rivera. Rivera and Staley have already interviewed for DC positions this offseason.
Because Daboll is obviously feeling the heat and likely doesn’t want to be looking over his shoulder. We just seen what happened with another coach that had his eyes on a HC job
If you don't think DC candidates look at this job and know how much harder it will be with a coach who could be on the hot seat and an offense that can't play complementary football, it is not surprising that other options look more appealing.
This is sadly true.
Both are overblown and the media is happy to spin a narrative
Link - ( New Window )
What a pile of crap.
the recently fired former head coaches have very little reason to want any defensive coordinator job. having been fired they are all getting paid by former teams, probably with offsets, so in essence they'd be taking any coordinator job "for free". Why wouldnt they take a year off or at least wait until they see if head coaching jobs come there way before jumping back into lesser jobs? it is only downside for them if they field anything less than a top defense in terms of resume building their next lead job. Vrabel could end up one of the most desirable HC candidates next cycle.
a guy like staley will jump right back in because he isnt getting another lead job without doing that, and maybe theres an outside shot any of them would take a job with a head coach or organization they have connections to but i dont think any exist with the current group. you play the hand you're dealt, this is in part why they probably preferred wink not publicly implode in the first place.
If you don't think DC candidates look at this job and know how much harder it will be with a coach who could be on the hot seat and an offense that can't play complementary football, it is not surprising that other options look more appealing.
Exactly. If you take the job it'd be unwise to pull your kids out of school because there's a good chance you'll be moving again in a year.
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We should have cut ties and went after Bill. This ‘24 season doesn’t look promising.
And the only people who want to work with Belichick are his kids, Josh McDaniels, Matt Patricia, Joe Judge, etc. If you think nepotism is bad with the Maras look at what Belichick set up in New England and failed miserably once they lost Brady.
I agree. I don’t know why people keep ignoring the downsides of Belichick. It’s clearly an issue several teams have, at the very least.
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to conclude that coaches with options don't see the Giants as a destination. The team has been consistently losing and firing coaches and GMs for a decade, and the coach and the DC just had a very public and ugly falling out.
If you don't think DC candidates look at this job and know how much harder it will be with a coach who could be on the hot seat and an offense that can't play complementary football, it is not surprising that other options look more appealing.
Exactly. If you take the job it'd be unwise to pull your kids out of school because there's a good chance you'll be moving again in a year.
that is the case with every single coach in any situation any year. in fact assistant coaches taking coordinator jobs are hoping that's the case and that they are going to get hired for a lead job wherever it is the following year.
giants coordinators have a good track record of turning successful seasons into job interviews quickly, just as kafka has. and wink last year. and graham before that. moving isnt the fear it is the goal.
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In comment 16388905 Eric from BBI said:
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if you were going to make an educated guess, if it's not Daly at this point, then things are looking a bit more shaky.
Still don't know why we're not looking at previous HCs like Staley, Vrabel and Rivera. Rivera and Staley have already interviewed for DC positions this offseason.
The answer might be that Dabes is slightly insecure at best or very difficult to work with at worst.
But I know most want to blame the Wink thing entirely on Wink.
Not hard to believe both BD & WM are at fault, but most of us have bosses and know what would happen if we pulled the same Wink BS on our bosses. Hello unemployment line!
Also not hard to believe potential hires would have concerns coming to the Giants based on what has happened the last couple of years alone. Or maybe an offensive coach would figure he could do better than 3 QB sneaks and punt inside the 5.
Everything’s fine, everyone else is lying
Seriously stupid comment.. Fan perception here is funning. The one thing the Giants ownership does a bit too much is care what fans think. Coach of the year to we should fire him the next year...
Our entire Oline was injured and under performed the whole season. Our big acquisition Waller was injured and hampered. Our QB was shell shocked and regressed behind turnstile pass protection. Our "star" RB under performed, was injured and his contract issues led directly to the Giants overpaying Jones to make sure they could franchise him...
Fans want stability then want constant change. Fans either overly support X or massively overstate Y to the negative just based on the "rumors, theories and thoughts" of folks NOT intimately involved...
Gimme a break..
No offense but they are lining up there because of the talent on Dallas and the opportunity to replace McCarthy!
Why?
Because after the 2022 Season the Giants could do no wrong. Joe Schoen was great and had a superlative Draft; Brian Daboll was a genius, we kept all our coordinators, we made all the right free-agency moves, we signed all the deals that needed to be signed with our vets, and blah, blah blah, blah blah.
And then the Giants 2023 Season goes down the drain in the first quarter of the very first game.
Just think about it for a moment. Look how good the Giants now have it: Joe Schoen screwed up with Daniel Jones contract and now faces a Draft with more needs than he has picks; Brian Daboll is a crazy Captain Ahab; Wink is gone, our ST Coordinator is gone and Kafka wants to be gone; name one Free Agent who'll want to join the Giants?; and Joe Schoen will screw up the McKinney and Barkley negotiations.
Why?
Because after the 2022 Season the Giants could do no wrong. Joe Schoen was great and had a superlative Draft; Brian Daboll was a genius, we kept all our coordinators, we made all the right free-agency moves, we signed all the deals that needed to be signed with our vets, and blah, blah blah, blah blah.
And then the Giants 2023 Season goes down the drain in the first quarter of the very first game.
Just think about it for a moment. Look how good the Giants now have it: Joe Schoen screwed up with Daniel Jones contract and now faces a Draft with more needs than he has picks; Brian Daboll is a crazy Captain Ahab; Wink is gone, our ST Coordinator is gone and Kafka wants to be gone; name one Free Agent who'll want to join the Giants?; and Joe Schoen will screw up the McKinney and Barkley negotiations.
Nice!
We got 'em right where we want 'em...
the well wink poisoned was his own.
schoen/dabs are as ever mainly accountable to only their own decisions.
They are a losing organization- until they are not.
They are an unstable organization- until they are not.
Winning (and having it be sustainable), is the ONLY thing that will change that perception- period!
and that there was 0 enthusiasm or desire to retain Spagnuolo.
winning headlines doesnt matter, getting decisions right does.
Babich got promoted at the place he was coaching and is a legit Super Bowl contender.
What is the big shock here? Shouldn't people be pleased that Daboll isn't just defaulting to giving Henderson the job?
--They wanted guys who were good and promising, and we weren't the only ones to note that.
--Those targets had other options and yes, starting with a 1st year coach or more established coach could be seen a s safer bet. it is what it is.
--Whether a guy says yes or no doesn't make someone a bad GM, he can't force someone to take an offer.
Babich got promoted at the place he was coaching and is a legit Super Bowl contender.
What is the big shock here? Shouldn't people be pleased that Daboll isn't just defaulting to giving Henderson the job?
that's my view. whether they should have gone more aggressively after Frazier or someone proven is a much bigger question to me than which unproven guy i hadnt heard of until about 3 weeks ago. defaulting to henderson would be a disappointing outcome but i guess nobody expected lou anarumo to amount to much in 2018.
Their 3rd choice is probably going to work out ok.
Giants didn't sign up for Martindale to put them in this position.
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In comment 16388919 Mike from Ohio said:
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to conclude that coaches with options don't see the Giants as a destination. The team has been consistently losing and firing coaches and GMs for a decade, and the coach and the DC just had a very public and ugly falling out.
If you don't think DC candidates look at this job and know how much harder it will be with a coach who could be on the hot seat and an offense that can't play complementary football, it is not surprising that other options look more appealing.
Exactly. If you take the job it'd be unwise to pull your kids out of school because there's a good chance you'll be moving again in a year.
that is the case with every single coach in any situation any year. in fact assistant coaches taking coordinator jobs are hoping that's the case and that they are going to get hired for a lead job wherever it is the following year.
giants coordinators have a good track record of turning successful seasons into job interviews quickly, just as kafka has. and wink last year. and graham before that. moving isnt the fear it is the goal.
You really don't see the difference between an optional move for a promotion (which rarely happens after one year) and being fired and having to find work, possibly taking a step back?
You really don't see the difference between an optional move for a promotion (which rarely happens after one year) and being fired and having to find work, possibly taking a step back?
you really don't see the fact that getting fired is a risk that exists with anyone who decides to be a coach as their career? have you ever looked at any coaches resume? "a safer situation" is a nice concept but one that doesn't exist. if a coach does a good job they move up if they dont they get fired.
last offseason how do you think philly looked to sean desai? do you think fangio took the job in miami expecting to go to philly a year later? coaches move. the better and more aspirational they are, the quicker it's going to happen.
Babich got promoted at the place he was coaching and is a legit Super Bowl contender.
What is the big shock here? Shouldn't people be pleased that Daboll isn't just defaulting to giving Henderson the job?
I tend to agree. None of these guys are really established as DCs. So, anyone at this point is a roll of the dice.
Babich got promoted at the place he was coaching and is a legit Super Bowl contender.
What is the big shock here? Shouldn't people be pleased that Daboll isn't just defaulting to giving Henderson the job?
I am in agreement. You said what I did only much clearer. I think after seeing what went down with Wink, Joe Schoen was able to show John Mara that they needed to have a more comprehensive search for the DC position.
This is the problem in my opinion. If you have a DC who has aspirations of being a head coach why would they want to go to a team with a coach that’s presumably on the hot seat? If the Giants flame out again next year not only is that newly hired coordinator out of a job, but they are also delaying their path to being a HC.
Both are overblown and the media is happy to spin a narrative
Or the Giants can’t hire a dc because of the quarterback
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You really don't see the difference between an optional move for a promotion (which rarely happens after one year) and being fired and having to find work, possibly taking a step back?
you really don't see the fact that getting fired is a risk that exists with anyone who decides to be a coach as their career? have you ever looked at any coaches resume? "a safer situation" is a nice concept but one that doesn't exist. if a coach does a good job they move up if they dont they get fired.
last offseason how do you think philly looked to sean desai? do you think fangio took the job in miami expecting to go to philly a year later? coaches move. the better and more aspirational they are, the quicker it's going to happen.
You are all over the place, my man. Of course I didn't say any situation was "safe" and you know I didn't. But I think everyone knows every situation is not the same.
Leonard to me is a human weasel ambulance chaser and Ranaan is approaching the same level of bad journalism...last week he reported that Kafka was as good as gone.. what happened Jordan?
Here is what I suspect as far as the DC situation..
The perception among many was that Wilson and Babich were the TOP choices because they were among the first interviewed, and while that might have been the perception, it might not be the case, because league rules apply as to who can be interviewed and when.
Wilson was able to be interviewed because the Ravens had a bye. Once Buffalo lost Babich was able to be interviewed. However because the Chiefs WON Daly was unable to be interviewed until later in the process..
Now it is possible that the Giants thought Wilson was a viable candidate ( having familiarity with the NFC East would be a big plus ) but he chose to go to Tennessee to work with Carthon with whom he had a prior 4 year working relationship, which makes perfect sense.Plus Tennessee has no state income tax... so... yeah..
People are really discounting Daly, because its a name that hasnt been talked about.
He has a background working with Daboll from New England. He has coached DL and LB, helping develop players for KC at both positions (he hasnt worked with secondary as far as I have seen, so having Henderson on board would be a plus), He has worked with both Belichick and Spags on defense and has five rings from being on Super Bowl staffs. Also this tells me has experience working with both 3-4 defenses and 4-3 defenses.
Its very possible that the Giants saw both candidates as viable.. but would rather have not waited..
Wilson chose Tennessee ( he also didnt choose Green Bay or the the Rams who are BOTH playoff teams, neither of them with coaches in danger of losing a job next year )
So now its possible Daly moves to the front of the line, but they have to wait. As far as the new guy Jones, what I believe we have read is that he came across as very impressive at the Senior Bowl as to how he handled things and the defense, so they gave him an interview. That gives them more information.. more ammo.. and it also helps Jones as well ( and that goes on as well.. agents working to get their guys interviews )
They didnt hire Wink until Feb 11th... the most important thing is to get the RIGHT guy..
Why?... Why is no one even asking this question..
What happened? He was as good as gone. He was going to leave for Seattle and the Giants blocked him from leaving.
Why is it so difficult for some of you to understand that since the Mara brothers and their nephew took control of the on the field football decisions in 2012 that the Giants have become one of the worst franchises in the NFL. They are what their record says they are.
For the past decade I've enjoyed the off season it's been the best time to be a Giants fan. I spent the time between horrible seasons happily drinking the kool-aid of hope. By the time the next season started I was convinced the worst was over and that the next era of championship Giants football was just a season or two away.
It's disappointing that things have gotten so bad around the Giants that the off season has become a continuation of the in season dysfunction with no end in sight.
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In comment 16389075 Mike from Ohio said:
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You really don't see the difference between an optional move for a promotion (which rarely happens after one year) and being fired and having to find work, possibly taking a step back?
you really don't see the fact that getting fired is a risk that exists with anyone who decides to be a coach as their career? have you ever looked at any coaches resume? "a safer situation" is a nice concept but one that doesn't exist. if a coach does a good job they move up if they dont they get fired.
last offseason how do you think philly looked to sean desai? do you think fangio took the job in miami expecting to go to philly a year later? coaches move. the better and more aspirational they are, the quicker it's going to happen.
You are all over the place, my man. Of course I didn't say any situation was "safe" and you know I didn't. But I think everyone knows every situation is not the same.
pretty sure im less all over the place than those speculating as to how a bunch of people they hadnt heard of 3 weeks ago are making decisions.
Reeves got three full seasons after 1993. I think a lot of people are quick to assume Daboll will get fired, his two years have been far better than Shurmur & Judge. McAdoo was more the product of Eli and a 2-10 start.
For all we know both Schoen & Daboll have assurances they will be here for awhile longer (I hope so, because that'll avoid making short term decisions).
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last week he reported that Kafka was as good as gone.. what happened Jordan?
What happened? He was as good as gone. He was going to leave for Seattle and the Giants blocked him from leaving.
Why is it so difficult for some of you to understand that since the Mara brothers and their nephew took control of the on the field football decisions in 2012 that the Giants have become one of the worst franchises in the NFL. They are what their record says they are.
For the past decade I've enjoyed the off season it's been the best time to be a Giants fan. I spent the time between horrible seasons happily drinking the kool-aid of hope. By the time the next season started I was convinced the worst was over and that the next era of championship Giants football was just a season or two away.
It's disappointing that things have gotten so bad around the Giants that the off season has become a continuation of the in season dysfunction with no end in sight.
So your telling me the Giants blocked someone who doesnt want to be there.. and the grand plan is to keep a disgruntled empoloyee AND pay him hundreds of thousands of dollars in the process as well..
OR is it possible as some have reported that their issues have been worked out?
which would still make Ranaan report wrong.. and Ranaan is wrong a lot more than he is correct..
--You know what, let me start over.... - ( New Window )
So that means it's okay to jump to conclusions based on gossip?
There's speculation and there's talking out of one's backside. There's giving the usual muck-racking far too much influence simply because we were frustrated about last season's results.
Yup...
If the Giants fire Daboll next year they are idiots to not just do it now and hire Belichick.
Someway, somehow, Giants need to figure out how to do a deed one year early rather than one year late.
Its to the point I never open articles with his and Leonard's names attached to it. I don't think I would ever mouth off to a media person in public except for these two. Likely because I am very invested in the team they cover, but also because I think they are reprehensibly terrible at their jobs (a job I would LOVE to do), do lazy work and resort to abject lying in order to produce results.
Raanan's reports aren't worth the battery my screen requires to show an article of his. Screw him and his stupid, dated early 2000s wave hair cut.