"I am, for transparency, a big Daniel Jones fan. But I will be the first to say that he took a step back this past year," Banks told Mail Sport.
"But I'll also add context to that and say, I can understand why. His offensive line was awful. He took so many hits early. And people don't want to understand that quarterbacks under duress — and I would challenge any individual who just continues to criticize the effectiveness of a quarterback who continues to get hit, I would challenge you to stand anywhere and get hit by a 2×4, about five times in a row and see if you can make great decisions."
The Giants' offensive line surrendered 85 sacks this past season, the second-most in NFL history. And all three of the team's quarterbacks — Jones, Tyrod Taylor, and Tommy DeVito — suffered injuries as a result of the porous line. It was undeniably a factor in the poor quarterback play.
"It does impair your decision-making because I was one of those guys who was doing that to quarterbacks, so I know how it impacts them," Banks said. "But he has to play better when he gets healthy. He will have to resume where he was starting to ascend to, and if he doesn't, they're gonna move on."
Banks on DJ - 2-4-24 - (
New Window )
3....2........1
We'll see if it's a smokescreen, but it's wafting into the sky.
"Sure, what's on your mind?"
"Off the record, we want to share with you that Daniel is still in our plans short and medium term. We think the OL situation really set him back. And then the injuries occurred..."
"Totally agree. I still like Jones..."
"Good. Good. Would you mind reaching out to a few media sources that cover the Giants and sharing your view? We think this will help get the base ready for the direction we are likely going."
"Absolutely. I will make a few call this week..."
"Thanks, Carl. You are always a team player for the Giants..."
Basically all of us want the defense to put constant pressure and sack the opposing quarterback as much as possible. Presumably because we believe the more the opposing quarterback is pressured and sacked the poorer he'll perform.
It's a little disingenuous to accept that reality for the opponent, but not for Jones. There is a direct relationship between the input and the output.
This is why Jones has and will continue to get opportunities to play, either for the Giants or somewhere else. He's living in a suspended state of plausible deniability.
Basically all of us want the defense to put constant pressure and sack the opposing quarterback as much as possible. Presumably because we believe the more the opposing quarterback is pressured and sacked the poorer he'll perform.
It's a little disingenuous to accept that reality for the opponent, but not for Jones. There is a direct relationship between the input and the output.
This is why Jones has and will continue to get opportunities to play, either for the Giants or somewhere else. He's living in a suspended state of plausible deniability.
I actually think this is quite fair, and Jones mostly doesn't get a fair shake around here, but fair is not the point.
The point is that Daniel Jones now has an extensive injury history, he is very reliant on his legs, and he might be permanently damaged psychologically from all of the punishment he has taken over the years.
I think even the most optimistic jones assessment has to take all of this into account. The Giants' responsibility is to the team, and not to one player.
They have to walk out of this offseason with at least one plausible quarterback who could be the opening day starter in 2025 on a playoff team other than Daniel Jones. If they don't have that, they failed.
Today he is a shill for NYG management. There are no honest or clear voices covering the Giants. They all act like an arm of the front office.
Adding a WR1 at #6 and two more starters in round 2 would be a big help. NYG needs more good players. The team is more than a QB away. If there's an opportunity to add a franchise QB, then by all means go ahead, but absent that, please just improve the roster.
That's an understatement.
Worst of all - to me - it's looking more and more like Schoen may not be the GM many of us were hoping he would be.
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I typically regard any Carl Banks observation pretty low, but it's hard to argue his point.
Basically all of us want the defense to put constant pressure and sack the opposing quarterback as much as possible. Presumably because we believe the more the opposing quarterback is pressured and sacked the poorer he'll perform.
It's a little disingenuous to accept that reality for the opponent, but not for Jones. There is a direct relationship between the input and the output.
This is why Jones has and will continue to get opportunities to play, either for the Giants or somewhere else. He's living in a suspended state of plausible deniability.
I actually think this is quite fair, and Jones mostly doesn't get a fair shake around here, but fair is not the point.
The point is that Daniel Jones now has an extensive injury history, he is very reliant on his legs, and he might be permanently damaged psychologically from all of the punishment he has taken over the years.
I think even the most optimistic jones assessment has to take all of this into account. The Giants' responsibility is to the team, and not to one player.
They have to walk out of this offseason with at least one plausible quarterback who could be the opening day starter in 2025 on a playoff team other than Daniel Jones. If they don't have that, they failed.
How can you say Jones doesn't get a fair shake? He's heading into season 6. He's a failed starter yet he got $100M and folks on social media were clamoring for him to get a huge deal. He rewarded us with an historically bad performance from a player on a mega deal. Yet many seem to think it's ok to bank on him. You need to run a $6B franchise on probabilities for positive outcomes. The odds are strongly against Jones being anything more than a replacement level starter, and likely much worse, likely he's a backup player. Why would you pin our fortunes on such a low probability? We are more likely to have success with a 3rd round QB.
This is how this team gets away with it.
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has embraced mediocrity.
That's an understatement.
Worst of all - to me - it's looking more and more like Schoen may not be the GM many of us were hoping he would be.
I'm willing to bet he got the job in the 1st place b/c he swore he make a winner out of DJ.
This is how this team gets away with it.
Alas, I think you are right.
I will continue to hope for a miracle (getting any of the top three QBs in the draft) but ultimately expect Schoen to reveal his true colors again.
He's all in on Jones.
Jints Central hires the guys that tell them what they want to hear - of course I don't know this for a fact...but at this point...it's starting look true.
Why wouldn't it? The fans have too. The stadium will be full on opening day, and when the team is 4-10 there will be plenty of people buying on the secondary market.
And you watch around here. The people that went from "Why can't we win with Daniel" when he got paid to "We need to draft a QB" when he got hurt will go right back to "Why can't we win with Daniel" when they don't draft a QB until day 3, if they draft one at all.
There's no reason to give this team the benefit of the doubt.
The other thing that has not been reported much is if the dynamic has changed some with JS/BD and ownership. From a ownership perspective, there is plenty to be disappointed about outside the QB position with how the season played out.
How/if this impacts what they do at QB remains to be seen imv.
I think they will be able to sign a FA QB if they choose to but not sure how aggressive they will be able to be in the draft at the QB spot.
I agree on Nix.
I don't think season 4 was a good enough data set to hand out 82M in guarantees, and I don't think season 5 is good enough of a data set to unring the bell.
Let's assume for argument's sake there is a 1:1 relationship between the production measurements and the pressure measurements.
Jones was pressured at a historically high and quick rate. Any surprise he was the least productive QB? If the whole point of the pass rush is to bother the quarterback, are we surprised it bothered the quarterback?
The real question in my mind is at what level does Jones outpace the curve. If he's pressured at an average level, can he produce at above average production?
I don't think he can. But it's understandable that now given the contract has been given, management wants to see.
But before anyone loses their minds, let's see what happens if a Drake Maye or Jayden Daniel drops past the top 3 spots in the draft....do the Giants pass on a slight trade up?
What happens if (VERY UNLIKELY) Maye or Daniels' drops all the way to 6th? I don't see them passing on them at all.
Even winning with a great QB is hard in the NFL. The Giants are given themselves no chance to win big with Jones as the starter.
Like even if they just re-sign Tyrod, he will be starting in week 5 if Jones doesn't raise his production. Too many peoples' jobs and reputations will be on the line.
I don't think season 4 was a good enough data set to hand out 82M in guarantees, and I don't think season 5 is good enough of a data set to unring the bell.
Let's assume for argument's sake there is a 1:1 relationship between the production measurements and the pressure measurements.
Jones was pressured at a historically high and quick rate. Any surprise he was the least productive QB? If the whole point of the pass rush is to bother the quarterback, are we surprised it bothered the quarterback?
The real question in my mind is at what level does Jones outpace the curve. If he's pressured at an average level, can he produce at above average production?
I don't think he can. But it's understandable that now given the contract has been given, management wants to see.
The only thing they’re going to see then is pink slips in the near future.
This will be more chances than I can remember any QB getting (on the same team)
Like even if they just re-sign Tyrod, he will be starting in week 5 if Jones doesn't raise his production. Too many peoples' jobs and reputations will be on the line.
And let me add, I do not think Jones - coming off an ACL, with an angry fanbase, and in a locker room with tepid support for him (based on the Thibs quote) - is going to thrive in this environment. Trust me, I've tried to talk myself into him having a rebound season, and I was confident he would have a decent season in 2022. I don't see it all for next year.
And what we are paying DJ is irrelevant to this. It is a sunk cost and has no bearing in current decision making. Obviously it impacts how much overall space we have available but the idea that we can't spend more on QB because we have already spent so much is dumb.
If Jones wins, the Giants continue to play him. If not, his career here probably ends after 2024.
A bad hand? There isn't a starting QB on the team, they're picking 6th in one of the strongest QB drafts in years, and they've been so bad for so long that the roster lacks (or at least should lack) sacred cows that can't be traded.
It's hard to get a better hand than this. What are we doing here?
They weren't meaningless to the DeVito family. Think of all the cutlets they can buy with that Rao's money.
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I don't think the Giants are in as good of a position to get a QB as many think. Running Jones back could be a result of a bad hand more than anything else.
A bad hand? There isn't a starting QB on the team, they're picking 6th in one of the strongest QB drafts in years, and they've been so bad for so long that the roster lacks (or at least should lack) sacred cows that can't be traded.
It's hard to get a better hand than this. What are we doing here?
What good is it drafting 6 if the strong QB's are gone by 3? Don't get me wrong, I am absolutely in favor of seeing what it would take to trade up, but I don't want to see us take Day 2 talent at 6 because we want to replace Jones. You want a "sacred cow," yet you are arguing against drafting one because he is not a QB when potentially the QB you want to draft is a Day 2 guy.
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I don't think the Giants are in as good of a position to get a QB as many think. Running Jones back could be a result of a bad hand more than anything else.
A bad hand? There isn't a starting QB on the team, they're picking 6th in one of the strongest QB drafts in years, and they've been so bad for so long that the roster lacks (or at least should lack) sacred cows that can't be traded.
It's hard to get a better hand than this. What are we doing here?
And the thing is, I don't think the Giants are all that enthusiastic about this, but are going to do it anyway, much like they picked up Eli's option in 2019 only to bench him after 2 games. This time, it'll just be benching Jones for Brissett or Taylor.
Like this quote from Carl basically sounds like a threat; I don't see Jones really very confident in this environment:
+1
This is a very salient point.
But I would add one edit: "If Jones was on another NFL team..."
If Jones was a free agent QB and we needed a QB, how many on this board would advocate that we make a move on Jones?
I would bet it would be 5% or <.
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hoping to fall within the top 3 picks in the draft order--to force the Giants hand. Now that they won a few meaningless games they have a built in excuse for not taking a QB.
They weren't meaningless to the DeVito family. Think of all the cutlets they can buy with that Rao's money.
The silliest argument in favor of those wins was that they would somehow carry over confidence-wise to next season or that they showed Daboll kept the locker room together. Meanwhile, a week after the season ended we had an internal coaching meltdown, a starting player openly question the decision to pay Jones, and multiple coaches turn down the opportunity to work here. Obviously, not all of this is Daboll or Schoen's fault, but it's just symptomatic of a frachnise that's rotting internally.
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In comment 16389404 BrettNYG10 said:
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I don't think the Giants are in as good of a position to get a QB as many think. Running Jones back could be a result of a bad hand more than anything else.
A bad hand? There isn't a starting QB on the team, they're picking 6th in one of the strongest QB drafts in years, and they've been so bad for so long that the roster lacks (or at least should lack) sacred cows that can't be traded.
It's hard to get a better hand than this. What are we doing here?
And the thing is, I don't think the Giants are all that enthusiastic about this, but are going to do it anyway, much like they picked up Eli's option in 2019 only to bench him after 2 games. This time, it'll just be benching Jones for Brissett or Taylor.
Like this quote from Carl basically sounds like a threat; I don't see Jones really very confident in this environment:
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"But he has to play better when he gets healthy. He will have to resume where he was starting to ascend to, and if he doesn't, they're gonna move on."
The problem is he wasn’t really starting to ascend. He wasn’t good in the second half last year except against the Vikings and the Colts, two teams that weren’t very good.
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In comment 16389404 BrettNYG10 said:
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I don't think the Giants are in as good of a position to get a QB as many think. Running Jones back could be a result of a bad hand more than anything else.
A bad hand? There isn't a starting QB on the team, they're picking 6th in one of the strongest QB drafts in years, and they've been so bad for so long that the roster lacks (or at least should lack) sacred cows that can't be traded.
It's hard to get a better hand than this. What are we doing here?
And the thing is, I don't think the Giants are all that enthusiastic about this, but are going to do it anyway, much like they picked up Eli's option in 2019 only to bench him after 2 games. This time, it'll just be benching Jones for Brissett or Taylor.
Like this quote from Carl basically sounds like a threat; I don't see Jones really very confident in this environment:
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"But he has to play better when he gets healthy. He will have to resume where he was starting to ascend to, and if he doesn't, they're gonna move on."
If the threat is there and real, you have to make sure you have insurance, not turn to hungry hunter-gatherer mode. And you don’t keep paying AA premium on a junk bond QB. Unless Jones tears up the league there’s no reason to keep him in 2025.
✅✅✅✅✅✅✅✅
yessir
However, we know the Giants aren't that smart.
Fans have every right to worry when franchise mouthpieces say things like this. We've seen it before.
As I said the other day, I'm getting heavy 1996 vibes... a year most Giants fans knew was going to be massive lame duck season.
Will John Mara be addressing the press again in January 2025, pleading mea culpa once again and promising sweeping changes? It's getting old.
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We would all be laughing and celebrating at this kind of news
yessir
They laugh at QBs that are better than Jones
They should be saying shit like this, imo.
Today he is a shill for NYG management. There are no honest or clear voices covering the Giants. They all act like an arm of the front office.
He's shill for Giants management? Are you kidding me with this?
Eric's point about 1996 vibes are really but I think it has the potential to be much worse if they aren't proactive at QB. Again, if Jones is the unquestioned starter I think the team is underestimating how hostile the environment is going to be on multiple levels, and I don't think it's going to set anyone up for success.
However, we know the Giants aren't that smart.
Fans have every right to worry when franchise mouthpieces say things like this. We've seen it before.
As I said the other day, I'm getting heavy 1996 vibes... a year most Giants fans knew was going to be massive lame duck season.
Will John Mara be addressing the press again in January 2025, pleading mea culpa once again and promising sweeping changes? It's getting old.
Reeves did get 1994, 1995 & 1996 after the playoff win in 1993. A lot of fans assume Daboll is a lame duck, I don t know.
He kept the season together and went 4-3 down the stretch with Tommy DeVito & Tyrod Taylor. He's won a playoff game. If he bottoms out, he'll be gone. But, if it's a 7-10 type season, I think Daboll gets more time.
The Giants are in trouble if they are operating under a win or else mandate.
Atlanta and maybe Minnesota, depending on what Cousins does? The Saints?
I don't think he can. But it's understandable that now given the contract has been given, management wants to see.
The only thing they’re going to see then is pink slips in the near future.
Do you think they would be fired if Jones and the Giants have an identical season to 2022?
However, we know the Giants aren't that smart.
Fans have every right to worry when franchise mouthpieces say things like this. We've seen it before.
As I said the other day, I'm getting heavy 1996 vibes... a year most Giants fans knew was going to be massive lame duck season.
Will John Mara be addressing the press again in January 2025, pleading mea culpa once again and promising sweeping changes? It's getting old.
The Giants don't need to put anymore smoke out there.
They did all their smoking the day they gave Daniel Jones $92,000,000.00 in guarantees.
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A smart franchise would be putting out smoke that they are not likely draft a QB, but only to mislead other teams.
However, we know the Giants aren't that smart.
Fans have every right to worry when franchise mouthpieces say things like this. We've seen it before.
As I said the other day, I'm getting heavy 1996 vibes... a year most Giants fans knew was going to be massive lame duck season.
Will John Mara be addressing the press again in January 2025, pleading mea culpa once again and promising sweeping changes? It's getting old.
Reeves did get 1994, 1995 & 1996 after the playoff win in 1993. A lot of fans assume Daboll is a lame duck, I don t know.
He kept the season together and went 4-3 down the stretch with Tommy DeVito & Tyrod Taylor. He's won a playoff game. If he bottoms out, he'll be gone. But, if it's a 7-10 type season, I think Daboll gets more time.
The Giants are in trouble if they are operating under a win or else mandate.
I don’t think he’s a lame duck but him and Schoen have tightened their window and slack for their tenure together where this offseason is critical for both their futures. Mara could give Schoen a second HC hiring but who knows. HCs live and die on a different plank.
If they ride with Jones and meager alternatives this season they will face a win or die or lame duck 2025.
NFL.com have the Giants/Jones ranked 29th.
NFL QB index - ( New Window )
McAdoo’s offense was good when he worked under TC, it was garbage on his own. Even in 2016, the defense carried that team, all McAdoo could scheme up was to try and get Odell open on a slant. He had one of the smaller WR groups in the league and he did nothing to try to scheme them open - no motion, no bunched receiver sets. 25th in yards, 26th in points doesn’t scream good offense to me.
Mock - ( New Window )
They should be saying shit like this, imo.
In a vacuum, you’re not wrong, but when you look at the recent history of how the Giants operate, this is SOP. Get the narrative they want out there.
I think its the worst situation in the league and not even close.
What I truly don't understand and keep coming back to, is that there is almost no scenario where the Giants keep Jones in 2025 and justify that contract moving forward. He would need to take a leap that has never really ever been done in the NFL.
With that being the case, how can you not try to find a replacement now?
The starter in week 1 will be either Jones if he's healthy enough, or whoever wins the QB2 job in training camp - Taylor, DeVito, some other vet, or the kid they draft.
Once healthy, Jones will start.. if he sucks, he'll get pulled in favor of the guy that won the QB2 job.
Malpractice by ATL GM if they don’t do this, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some in the NYG building would be relieved by that result.
+1 this!
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The real question in my mind is at what level does Jones outpace the curve. If he's pressured at an average level, can he produce at above average production?
I don't think he can. But it's understandable that now given the contract has been given, management wants to see.
The only thing they’re going to see then is pink slips in the near future.
Do you think they would be fired if Jones and the Giants have an identical season to 2022?
No. But I have zero faith in that occurring. And it would mean rest of this lost decade ahead for Giants. Whether it’s January 2025 or January 2026, I see another regime change coming unless they radically pivot hard on the roster and QB.
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I don't think the Giants are in as good of a position to get a QB as many think. Running Jones back could be a result of a bad hand more than anything else.
A bad hand? There isn't a starting QB on the team, they're picking 6th in one of the strongest QB drafts in years, and they've been so bad for so long that the roster lacks (or at least should lack) sacred cows that can't be traded.
It's hard to get a better hand than this. What are we doing here?
There are three guys highly rated, it could be enormously costly to trade up. And we might not even have that option.
Winning those games against Washington and New England was disastorous.
Jones played well in 2022, not great, but good enough provided that he continue to progress. He didn't.
Banks is right, the OL was horrid. Jones also was our 3rd best QB behind that OL.
All of this aside, the guy is following up a horrid season with an ACL injury. The two combined should show you he shouldn't be relied on. He performed in one prove it season which put us in this position right now, don't give him a chance to do this again. Just move on and draft a QB before we lose another coach and GM.
Mike Sullivan was a terrible OC, both here and in Tampa.
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In comment 16389404 BrettNYG10 said:
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I don't think the Giants are in as good of a position to get a QB as many think. Running Jones back could be a result of a bad hand more than anything else.
A bad hand? There isn't a starting QB on the team, they're picking 6th in one of the strongest QB drafts in years, and they've been so bad for so long that the roster lacks (or at least should lack) sacred cows that can't be traded.
It's hard to get a better hand than this. What are we doing here?
There are three guys highly rated, it could be enormously costly to trade up. And we might not even have that option.
Winning those games against Washington and New England was disastorous.
What would you consider to be too expensive? Personally I don't think there's a greater expense than the time we're wasting fielding a team without a quarterback. We're just throwing away the years of what few good players we actually have.
If the Schoen leaves this draft without a new viable starting QB I'm going to assume that he truly does believe in Jones; and that's a "vote of no confidence" situation.
He HAS to come out of this draft with his QB. Has to.
Winning those games against Washington and New England was disastorous.
I've been told winning those inconsequential games was a good thing because that helps build a winning culture. And we will eventually realize those dividends.
Of course, you have to ignore there is annual roster turnover of 35-45% and you are basically starting with a new team every year.
. And their VERY ill advised injury guarantee should cause his ass to be parked on the bench.
That’s what a smart organization would do. But since Mara is heavily involved in the QB position, we are probably screwed.
Carl Banks, not Deonte Banks.
Too much focus on six games.
Next, please.
Absolutely. And that's what Banks is saying. No-one could have succeeded with the OL(minus Thomas) that Jones had to play behind.
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In comment 16389423 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16389404 BrettNYG10 said:
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I don't think the Giants are in as good of a position to get a QB as many think. Running Jones back could be a result of a bad hand more than anything else.
A bad hand? There isn't a starting QB on the team, they're picking 6th in one of the strongest QB drafts in years, and they've been so bad for so long that the roster lacks (or at least should lack) sacred cows that can't be traded.
It's hard to get a better hand than this. What are we doing here?
There are three guys highly rated, it could be enormously costly to trade up. And we might not even have that option.
Winning those games against Washington and New England was disastorous.
What would you consider to be too expensive? Personally I don't think there's a greater expense than the time we're wasting fielding a team without a quarterback. We're just throwing away the years of what few good players we actually have.
If the Schoen leaves this draft without a new viable starting QB I'm going to assume that he truly does believe in Jones; and that's a "vote of no confidence" situation.
He HAS to come out of this draft with his QB. Has to.
I think anything much more than two first round picks and a second is too much, personally. Some combination of that, rather players/picks, etc. I thought the trade for Young last year was way too much.
Here's a list of 29 times teams traded up for a QB (written in 2021). Most of them look awful--most of the ones that did work were trading up to the late or middle first.
ESPN - ( New Window )
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Winning those games against Washington and New England was disastorous.
I've been told winning those inconsequential games was a good thing because that helps build a winning culture. And we will eventually realize those dividends.
Of course, you have to ignore there is annual roster turnover of 35-45% and you are basically starting with a new team every year.
The culture argument is ridiculous: is the culture really that changed by whether the Patriots or Commanders got an extra touchdown?
What evidence is there for the culture argument? The Lions maybe? They got better because they hit home runs on their picks.
However, we know the Giants aren't that smart.
Fans have every right to worry when franchise mouthpieces say things like this. We've seen it before.
As I said the other day, I'm getting heavy 1996 vibes... a year most Giants fans knew was going to be massive lame duck season.
Will John Mara be addressing the press again in January 2025, pleading mea culpa once again and promising sweeping changes? It's getting old.
I get this approach, but just because the Giants put out those signals, the top 3 are not going to drop to us. I think people better come to the realization that if we do draft a QB, it's going to be a project that likely will not be starting this year!
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Winning those games against Washington and New England was disastorous.
I've been told winning those inconsequential games was a good thing because that helps build a winning culture. And we will eventually realize those dividends.
Of course, you have to ignore there is annual roster turnover of 35-45% and you are basically starting with a new team every year.
Winning culture is built upon good players. Players are never going to intentionally tank nor are coaching staffs. They're all coaching and playing for jobs. But fans who believe winning is important for culture are fools. I am fine with not actively rooting against your team to lose, but the culture doesn't matter if you don't have winning players. Because a bad roster will get front offices and coaching staffs fired regularly and the culture you thought was being built has to start over.
I'll never understand it. It's like being attached to Danny Kanell and Joe Montgomery.
It is beyond bizarre.
I can not wait to watch a Giants team that doesn't have these players.
.
This. Whether or not you believe DJ is the QB of the future, his injury history means we can't rely on him going forward. We need another option, preferably cost-controlled from the draft. If DJ balls out next year, it would be a good problem to have.
A team that has been the worst team in the sport since Barkley was drafted can not possibly let him go because he's such a great leader and it will destroy the locker room.
Barkley and Jones have somehow broken the brains of many Giants fans. You would think after losing so much with the two of them that fans would want them gone simply because they have been so bad with the two of them as the faces of the franchise but nope they want to give these 2 5000000 chances.
Eli Manning didn't get the benefit of the doubt like those two do and I'll never understand why.
Jones played well in 2022, not great, but good enough provided that he continue to progress. He didn't.
Banks is right, the OL was horrid. Jones also was our 3rd best QB behind that OL.
All of this aside, the guy is following up a horrid season with an ACL injury. The two combined should show you he shouldn't be relied on. He performed in one prove it season which put us in this position right now, don't give him a chance to do this again. Just move on and draft a QB before we lose another coach and GM.
Minor point Bitey. But Jones actually played behind an almost completely different line. The line thru those first few weeks was largely Ezudu and Neal at the OTs and spme combination of Lemieux, McKethan and Glowinski at G and Bredeson playing out of position at C. The line started to stabilize when they signed Pugh and thru the second half of the year it was Thomas and Phillips at the OTs, Pugh and Bredeson and Schmitz at C. In fact the OL in the second half of the season wasn't all that bad. But you guys go on with your bleating!
A team that has been the worst team in the sport since Barkley was drafted can not possibly let him go because he's such a great leader and it will destroy the locker room.
Barkley and Jones have somehow broken the brains of many Giants fans. You would think after losing so much with the two of them that fans would want them gone simply because they have been so bad with the two of them as the faces of the franchise but nope they want to give these 2 5000000 chances.
Eli Manning didn't get the benefit of the doubt like those two do and I'll never understand why.
I think about how much I wanted them to move on from Eli in 2017 and 2018 and 2019.
And it isn't even close to how much I never want to see Jones play for this team again. I think I can deal with Barkley for one more year but he isn't far behind this same view either.
I can not wait to watch a Giants team that doesn't have these players.
It's funny so many screech that "the draft is a crapshoot!" Without realizing Jones has rolled a 7 every season but 1
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The number one thing he's right on is that this is Jones's last chance. I think the arguement is whether or not he deserves it.
Jones played well in 2022, not great, but good enough provided that he continue to progress. He didn't.
Banks is right, the OL was horrid. Jones also was our 3rd best QB behind that OL.
All of this aside, the guy is following up a horrid season with an ACL injury. The two combined should show you he shouldn't be relied on. He performed in one prove it season which put us in this position right now, don't give him a chance to do this again. Just move on and draft a QB before we lose another coach and GM.
Minor point Bitey. But Jones actually played behind an almost completely different line. The line thru those first few weeks was largely Ezudu and Neal at the OTs and spme combination of Lemieux, McKethan and Glowinski at G and Bredeson playing out of position at C. The line started to stabilize when they signed Pugh and thru the second half of the year it was Thomas and Phillips at the OTs, Pugh and Bredeson and Schmitz at C. In fact the OL in the second half of the season wasn't all that bad. But you guys go on with your bleating!
Miami game both Taylor and Jones played. Jones was sacked 6 times. Taylor was sacked once. Jones was also sacked at a higher rate. Buffalo game in the middle also showed how much better Taylor was in terms of not getting sacked. It wasn't just the players on OL.. Jones makes them worse.
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RELEVANT if Jones can play or not . His injuries (especially the 2 neck injuries) should make it impossible to run him out there again
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This. Whether or not you believe DJ is the QB of the future, his injury history means we can't rely on him going forward. We need another option, preferably cost-controlled from the draft. If DJ balls out next year, it would be a good problem to have.
Did you guys watch the Miami game? Also let's not use goats to make a point about Jones.. 2016 Brady had a team that was horrendous in terms of OL.. go watch how broncos killed him in the playoffs.. and yet he gave them a fighting chance.. I don't even have to make fake scenarios.. the Goat Taylor playing behind the exact same OL against the exact same DL was sacked way less than Jones.. Jones is slow as Fuck at reading defense and getting the ball out.. when they know that Jones can't hurt them by finding the hot receiver and getting the ball out there.. they can just bring people down..
To me you have to become a ball control team and turn Jones into a game manager. This means the o line will need a massive upgrade and has to become a strength.
You draft the best right tackle at 6. The best guard available in the second round. Move Neal to guard and let him compete with Ezudo. Pick up a veteran FA swing tackle. Resign Barkley.
Now I know this will not be popular but I believe this is their best path forward for next year given the circumstances.
Isn't this what the Titans did with Tanahill?
To me you have to become a ball control team and turn Jones into a game manager. This means the o line will need a massive upgrade and has to become a strength.
You draft the best right tackle at 6. The best guard available in the second round. Move Neal to guard and let him compete with Ezudo. Pick up a veteran FA swing tackle. Resign Barkley.
Now I know this will not be popular but I believe this is their best path forward for next year given the circumstances.
Isn't this what the Titans did with Tanahill?
lol.. who in their right minds wants to watch that? This is supposed to be entertainment, not a root canal.
This is the important point. And what did they do in 2019? Force the QB in a weak year.
Schoen and Daboll were unlucky that 2022 wasn't a strong QB draft.
and guess what? The fans keep giving the Giants 1000000 chances. If you want change then everyone needs to stop consuming the Giants. Dont buy tickets, dont watch the games on TV... nothing.
When you speak with your actions, then change happens. When you speak with your mouth but dont change... then they will not take you seriously.
They can basically do anything and we will keep coming back for more. One would call us crazy for continuing to care when the team has been dog shit for so many years.
So, we cant fire the owners but the closest thing to doing that is to no longer consume their product.
In comment 16389775 DefenseWins said:
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so attached to Barkley and Jones? It baffles me. The Giants have been the worst organization in football since drafting those two. But people want to give them 1000000 chances
and guess what? The fans keep giving the Giants 1000000 chances. If you want change then everyone needs to stop consuming the Giants. Dont buy tickets, dont watch the games on TV... nothing.
When you speak with your actions, then change happens. When you speak with your mouth but dont change... then they will not take you seriously.
They can basically do anything and we will keep coming back for more. One would call us crazy for continuing to care when the team has been dog shit for so many years.
So, we cant fire the owners but the closest thing to doing that is to no longer consume their product.
Count me in. I mean WTF its been almost 18 games since the Giants won a playoff game!!
Before he went out. (By then , he was not seeing wide-open receivers). Taylor came in and suffered broken ribs. DeVito came in and got HIS bell rung, Taylor comes back and makes a mental error to blow one game and another to lose another one ..... Don't you see a pattern ?
Banks is right, Giants' QBs were constantly getting the crap beaten out of them. Now you want to draft a premier QB in the first round ? What are you gonna do, when that guy is running around like a zombie, when he suffers the same kind of abuse ?
Before he went out. (By then , he was not seeing wide-open receivers). Taylor came in and suffered broken ribs. DeVito came in and got HIS bell rung, Taylor comes back and makes a mental error to blow one game and another to lose another one ..... Don't you see a pattern ?
Banks is right, Giants' QBs were constantly getting the crap beaten out of them. Now you want to draft a premier QB in the first round ? What are you gonna do, when that guy is running around like a zombie, when he suffers the same kind of abuse ?
Yeah it's a shame they can only add one player between now and training camp
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Before he went out. (By then , he was not seeing wide-open receivers). Taylor came in and suffered broken ribs. DeVito came in and got HIS bell rung, Taylor comes back and makes a mental error to blow one game and another to lose another one ..... Don't you see a pattern ?
Banks is right, Giants' QBs were constantly getting the crap beaten out of them. Now you want to draft a premier QB in the first round ? What are you gonna do, when that guy is running around like a zombie, when he suffers the same kind of abuse ?
Yeah it's a shame they can only add one player between now and training camp
If you draft a QB you're not allowed to upgrade the OL. They introduced that rule the year they messed up the onside kick. Try to keep up, please
In Parcells day, the Giants did the same. Belichicks' defense famously asked the offense to "just score 16 points' and we'll take care of the rest.
(Dan Coreyell's "no D" in "San *iego Chargers" [featuring All-Pro QB John Hadl] was unstoppable).
Those are the two extremes. My point - Build an offensive line first (it takes top-tier talent & gelling time), THEN go out and get your shiny new QB, in '25.
In comment 16389775 DefenseWins said:
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In comment 16389568 MookGiants said:
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so attached to Barkley and Jones? It baffles me. The Giants have been the worst organization in football since drafting those two. But people want to give them 1000000 chances
and guess what? The fans keep giving the Giants 1000000 chances. If you want change then everyone needs to stop consuming the Giants. Dont buy tickets, dont watch the games on TV... nothing.
When you speak with your actions, then change happens. When you speak with your mouth but dont change... then they will not take you seriously.
They can basically do anything and we will keep coming back for more. One would call us crazy for continuing to care when the team has been dog shit for so many years.
So, we cant fire the owners but the closest thing to doing that is to no longer consume their product.
Count me in. I mean WTF its been almost 18 games since the Giants won a playoff game!!
Burners are out in full force tonight. Welcome back, Snablats.
The burners came out in full force - the gang's all here.
They realistically need to upgrade both guards, and probably swing tackle. And the guys they've drafted in the mid rounds haven't exactly impressed, so I wouldn't rely on them.
Jones isn't going anywhere, so he will factor into the year. Whether that's as placeholder or guy trying to save his long-term job, is the question.
The Giants haven’t embraced mediocrity, they have embraced failure . This organization is along way away from mediocrity.
Over the last decade the Giants have posted the 3rd worst record in the NFL at 60-102-1. The 16th worst or best record over that time frame is the Tennessee Titans who have went 77-86 and made 4 playoffs, winning 3 playoff games and getting to an AFC Championship game. Thats how far away we are away from mediocre.
At this great, he'll be getting one more last chance for the next ten years.
In Parcells day, the Giants did the same. Belichicks' defense famously asked the offense to "just score 16 points' and we'll take care of the rest.
(Dan Coreyell's "no D" in "San *iego Chargers" [featuring All-Pro QB John Hadl] was unstoppable).
Those are the two extremes. My point - Build an offensive line first (it takes top-tier talent & gelling time), THEN go out and get your shiny new QB, in '25.
There is no more 3 and 4 year buildup of a team. You not only need to keep the players you have but you have to replace the players who leave or become too expensive against the cap.
To me you have to become a ball control team and turn Jones into a game manager. This means the o line will need a massive upgrade and has to become a strength.
You draft the best right tackle at 6. The best guard available in the second round. Move Neal to guard and let him compete with Ezudo. Pick up a veteran FA swing tackle. Resign Barkley.
Now I know this will not be popular but I believe this is their best path forward for next year given the circumstances.
Isn't this what the Titans did with Tanahill?
Except Tannehill was better than Jones, and by a lot. I get what you’re saying, but what you’re describing is the very definition of QB hell - build a team good enough to compete for a playoff spot, but not good enough to do anything if they get there.
The goal is to win SB’s, and you need a QB to do that, so go get one.
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has embraced mediocrity.
The Giants haven’t embraced mediocrity, they have embraced failure . This organization is along way away from mediocrity.
Over the last decade the Giants have posted the 3rd worst record in the NFL at 60-102-1. The 16th worst or best record over that time frame is the Tennessee Titans who have went 77-86 and made 4 playoffs, winning 3 playoff games and getting to an AFC Championship game. Thats how far away we are away from mediocre.
+1. It also reminds of people who are like, "let's face it, Jones is just an average QB." I'd actually be great if he were average! Outside of 2022, however, he's been bottom third.
A better QB will 100% improve this team and its not hard to find a better QB than Jones.
Better guards will certainly help this team. It also won't magically make Jones a good quarterback in his 6th season.
Lets be honest, the only reason Jones might be the starter next season is because of his contract. Bite the bullet and move on.
Be on the prowl but reality is there just aren't than many special QB's. You can still have a very good team and chance to be a champion with just solid QB play. Those teams tend to be strong on the fronts.
No, suggesting you can only improve one area of the team in a give offseason is what idiots say. Suggesting that it's a good idea to ignore positional value is another thing idiots say.
Go for a trifecta!
The Giants have tried methodical. The alternatives now seem overload or prayers.
You know I have no love for Jones and no desire for him to be the long-term guy. But thought exercise: pick two this year:
1) Quarterback 2) guard 3) right tackle.
I can see the rationale for the line. Don't agree, but can see it.
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With the trial balloons. When Ralph Vacchiano first went forward with a "run it back with Jones" Twitter thread a few months ago, people universally jumped down his throat. Now that we're getting constantly pounded with these hints/leaks that they're going with Jones again, I notice people are just becoming increasingly resigned that we're not getting a franchise QB this draft and are going with the status quo.
This is how this team gets away with it.
Alas, I think you are right.
I will continue to hope for a miracle (getting any of the top three QBs in the draft) but ultimately expect Schoen to reveal his true colors again.
He's all in on Jones.
Picking 6 is a conundrum. They are likely our on the top 3 guys and I wouldn't trade up. But, at #6 they would probably be over drafting anyone else. However, there is no guarantee anyone else they really like will be available in round 2 or 3.
The Giants have tried methodical. The alternatives now seem overload or prayers.
You know I have no love for Jones and no desire for him to be the long-term guy. But thought exercise: pick two this year:
1) Quarterback 2) guard 3) right tackle.
I can see the rationale for the line. Don't agree, but can see it.
I absolutely agree that the OL needs to be addressed. But I would argue that even Neal was a poor use of resources at the time, with OLT already locked down. I understood the appeal, and I agreed with it at the time. I still think Neal, given his draft dossier, was the right pick over Garrett Wilson (the presumed alternative at a different premium position). But I just can't get myself to subscribe to doubling down on it. I don't think a team should really even need two top-10 OTs to have a decent OL, let alone drafting a third within five years.
They have to be able to find a solution for the OL without letting the other premium spots on the roster go to rot, or the game of whack-a-mole continues.
The Giants have tried methodical. The alternatives now seem overload or prayers.
You know I have no love for Jones and no desire for him to be the long-term guy. But thought exercise: pick two this year:
1) Quarterback 2) guard 3) right tackle.
I can see the rationale for the line. Don't agree, but can see it.
I dont know what drafting more young offensive linemen does to fix it. People have quit on the last crop they drafted in about 16 games or less.
Be on the prowl but reality is there just aren't than many special QB's. You can still have a very good team and chance to be a champion with just solid QB play. Those teams tend to be strong on the fronts.
This century, you have Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco, and Nick Foles. Each of their teams had good running games and excellent defenses, so what is easier? Building a deep team of talent across both sides of the ball, or finding a top 10 QB?
Not to mention, which of those teams win with Jones at QB? 2000 Ravens, that’s about it.
It's also possible this is all just a smoke screen. Or, they intend to run back Jones because they HAVE TO at his capo hit, BUT ALSO intend to draft a QB.
Picking 6 is a conundrum. They are likely our on the top 3 guys and I wouldn't trade up. But, at #6 they would probably be over drafting anyone else. However, there is no guarantee anyone else they really like will be available in round 2 or 3.
This all starts March 13th when free agency starts. Schoen could reveal his hand early by signing a veteran outside the current QB room.
The 6th slot is a conundrum for those who think like you and me.
But if Schoen is still a Jones believer, the 6th pick is a chance to bring in more infantry for Jones.
Then some losing SB QB's: Delhomme, Kaepernick, Hasselbeck, JG and Grossman.
I don't have a answer for your question. Most of the "great" QB's also had a lot of help. You won't see me in the QB only club or that you can't still be very competitive w/o a top QB. Team game imv.
Then some losing SB QB's: Delhomme, Kaepernick, Hasselbeck, JG and Grossman.
I don't have a answer for your question. Most of the "great" QB's also had a lot of help. You won't see me in the QB only club or that you can't still be very competitive w/o a top QB. Team game imv.
That thinking goes out the windown once you pay Jones the level he's at. He needs to elevate your team, you shouldn't have to prop him up.
And alot of those QBs were better than Jones.
It's the chicken, in my mind (the O-line, and a good defense)
You can put "any-ole" egg (a QB), to be hatched under the warmth of the chicken.
The Dallas Cowboys, they're the ones that are in the "catbird's seat" right now. They win, even with Dak Prescott because the foundation is solid.
They're the ones who should put Prescott on the trading block and "pay" the Chicago Bears (with trade picks) to take
Caleb Williams. He's (or someone like him), is what keeps them from going to the Big Dance, and winning that.
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I would LOVE to know why. Haha.
Pray you find a spouse or life partner that loves you as much as Mara loves Dan Jones.
At this great, he'll be getting one more last chance for the next ten years.
Some on this board post that if JS and BD stick with DJ and have another bad season, they're gone. I posted before, how could they be gone if JD is loved by the boss and they are granting his wishes?
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In comment 16389534 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I would LOVE to know why. Haha.
Pray you find a spouse or life partner that loves you as much as Mara loves Dan Jones.
At this great, he'll be getting one more last chance for the next ten years.
Some on this board post that if JS and BD stick with DJ and have another bad season, they're gone. I posted before, how could they be gone if JD is loved by the boss and they are granting his wishes?
Mara signed off on benching Eli and then fired McAdoo and Reese for benching Eli.
Mara signed off on benching Eli and then fired McAdoo and Reese for benching Eli.
To this day, I find that one of the more remarkable stories that has come out of 1925 Giants Way. Doesn't get a lot of stick around here, but it showed just how fragile Mara is when the public and media revolt.
He folded like a blanket.
Wasn't a fan of him getting picked in the draft, but
I think he is still fully capable of delivering a 10 or 11 game winning season, given that they fix the O-line and find top-tier replacements for Waller & Leo Williams.
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Mara signed off on benching Eli and then fired McAdoo and Reese for benching Eli.
To this day, I find that one of the more remarkable stories that has come out of 1925 Giants Way. Doesn't get a lot of stick around here, but it showed just how fragile Mara is when the public and media revolt.
He folded like a blanket.
Mara has no honor. I don’t want to hear about what a great guy he supposedly is. Treating Jerry Reese like that is a sign of comprehensive douche baggery.
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In comment 16390005 HomerJones45 said:
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In comment 16389534 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I would LOVE to know why. Haha.
Pray you find a spouse or life partner that loves you as much as Mara loves Dan Jones.
At this great, he'll be getting one more last chance for the next ten years.
Some on this board post that if JS and BD stick with DJ and have another bad season, they're gone. I posted before, how could they be gone if JD is loved by the boss and they are granting his wishes?
Mara signed off on benching Eli and then fired McAdoo and Reese for benching Eli.
Another made up story.
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In comment 16390517 kickoff said:
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In comment 16390005 HomerJones45 said:
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In comment 16389534 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I would LOVE to know why. Haha.
Pray you find a spouse or life partner that loves you as much as Mara loves Dan Jones.
At this great, he'll be getting one more last chance for the next ten years.
Some on this board post that if JS and BD stick with DJ and have another bad season, they're gone. I posted before, how could they be gone if JD is loved by the boss and they are granting his wishes?
Mara signed off on benching Eli and then fired McAdoo and Reese for benching Eli.
Another made up story.
Your boss literally admitted exactly that at the time when it happened, dummy.
Can't wait for Tyler Dunne to discover the burners.
This is pretty well known.
This is pretty well known.
I love common knowledge it's so comforting.
It's the chicken, in my mind (the O-line, and a good defense)
You can put "any-ole" egg (a QB), to be hatched under the warmth of the chicken.
The Dallas Cowboys, they're the ones that are in the "catbird's seat" right now. They win, even with Dak Prescott because the foundation is solid.
So why did the Giants decide to pay $160 million for an egg?
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In comment 16390563 Scooter185 said:
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Mara signed off on benching Eli and then fired McAdoo and Reese for benching Eli.
To this day, I find that one of the more remarkable stories that has come out of 1925 Giants Way. Doesn't get a lot of stick around here, but it showed just how fragile Mara is when the public and media revolt.
He folded like a blanket.
Mara has no honor. I don’t want to hear about what a great guy he supposedly is. Treating Jerry Reese like that is a sign of comprehensive douche baggery.
Have you seen any of those people even considered for their former positions by another team? No.
I think Mara is an honorable guy, and I have been as hard on him as anyone, but he is not good at football related decisions; we have seen one bad decision out of another come out of the front office since 2013.
When their is a disagreement, (and sometimes he is part of that disagreement), he attempts to broker a compromise. I am sure that is what is going on with the qb position. The factions are floating their positions in the sporting press and a compromise will be worked out- spending a low draft choice, signing a cheap vet like Dobbs or some other half measure. That's what they do.
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It's common knowledge that Mara signed off on the Eli benching & then-after the public backlash-reversed course & canned McAdoo & Reese.
This is pretty well known.
I love common knowledge it's so comforting.
Any knowledge at all would be a pretty massive improvement from you.