season starts before you say he stinks and it's time to move on? You tell me what QB in the world be successful playing behind an O-line that gave up 85 sacks in a season? And don't say Tyrod and Devitto because they were not more successful than Jones. They were so successful that both of them got benched for each other. Give me a break. Saquan hurt, Thomas hurt, yet Jones is supposed to be Pat Mahomes out there. Let's make chicken salad out of chicken shit, shall we? Yea, ok, whatever. Did he have a bad season when he played? Yes, he did. Newsflash there. But guess what, he has a chance to prove the doubters wrong this season. I think he will, if healthy. Eli agrees with me, Carl Banks agrees with me, Bob Papa agrees with me, John Mara agrees with me, Brian Daboll and Joe Schoen agree with me. I like that company.
Some people never learn.
Some people never learn.
Wrong. Jones will be out of excuses then. He doesn't get another chance after this season, no matter the circumstances. Just the nature of the beast sometimes. Hopefully it won't come to that.
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We'll hear the same impassioned pleading next year.
Some people never learn.
Wrong. Jones will be out of excuses then. He doesn't get another chance after this season, no matter the circumstances. Just the nature of the beast sometimes. Hopefully it won't come to that.
He was supposed to be out of excuses after he got paid, his fan club said.
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We'll hear the same impassioned pleading next year.
Some people never learn.
Wrong. Jones will be out of excuses then. He doesn't get another chance after this season, no matter the circumstances. Just the nature of the beast sometimes. Hopefully it won't come to that.
The situation you're describing is actually now. He's out of excuses and was outplayed by two guys who were both benched. You made the argument yourself.
Some of us are tired of seeing the Giants keep trying the same things that don't work year after year after year.
I want a better quarterback for the team I root for and I don't want them to piss another season away.
This guy wouldn't start for one other team in the NFL. You don't think that is telling?
Jones is under contract and the most experienced QB on the roster. He will get every opportunity to compete for the job when he's healthy.
Hopefully the Giants greatly improve their pass protection and hopefully they pick a talented heir apparent.
Among the better outcomes is Jones establishes some trade value, and nets meaningful compensation in a trade.
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We'll hear the same impassioned pleading next year.
Some people never learn.
Wrong. Jones will be out of excuses then. He doesn't get another chance after this season, no matter the circumstances. Just the nature of the beast sometimes. Hopefully it won't come to that.
We've definitely heard this before, 2021 in particular. He was mostly underwhelming, got injured, which led to a front office/coaching house cleaning and the decline of his 5th year option. Unfortunately, there were no good QBs available in the 22 draft, and he performed in a no-pressure year and now we're in our current mess.
I think it's very likley we see the same scenario play out in 2024-25. He's inconsistent and gets injured, Daboll gets fired, Giants aren't in a position to get a good QB in the 2025 draft, they don't want to absorb the $22 million dead cap (and maybe the injury guarantee) so they give Jones another no-pressure year in 2025 with the ancipation that he'll be off the roster once it's all said and done. However, he's plays well and gets the Giants to 9 wins, the bring him back, he declines again, rinse and repeat until he retires.
I think an intervention is needed at this point.
This is becoming an addiction issue.
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We'll hear the same impassioned pleading next year.
Some people never learn.
Wrong. Jones will be out of excuses then. He doesn't get another chance after this season, no matter the circumstances. Just the nature of the beast sometimes. Hopefully it won't come to that.
Even as a fan of his, what would you put the odds at that Jones does enough in 2024 to justify keeping him with the contract for 2025?
For me its 1/100 and that's probably being generous. So why waste and wait another season? Start the process now of finding a replacement.
I think the organization likes Jones and wants him to succeed but I'm detecting a vibe of "you made us look like idiots this past season, now go out there and redeem us or else!" You combine this with a fanbase that is showing mix of apathy and hostility, and I don't think this environment is going to be condusive to success for him or the team. Honestly, the best scenario I see for Jones himself is getting a chance to sit for a year and recover, get some distance from being quaterback of the New York Giants, and then go sign with the Panthers or some other team and get a fresh start. Given the state of NFL QB'ing and injuries, he'll find himself back on the field in no time.
Instead, he's going to be his usual workout warrior self, and if he is the unquestioned starter, both Daboll and the organization are going to wound so tight over their decision to do this that I can't see it going well.
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We'll hear the same impassioned pleading next year.
Some people never learn.
Wrong. Jones will be out of excuses then. He doesn't get another chance after this season, no matter the circumstances. Just the nature of the beast sometimes. Hopefully it won't come to that.
HE’S ALREADY OUT OF EXCUSES! Jesus Fucking Christ, it’s been six years! Get it through your thick skull. Daniel Jones IS NOT a good NFL QB. Period. End of story.
You’re like a fucking gnat.
Bob Papa? Former team players? Really? What do you expect them to say?
Pot stirring. Nothing more.
DJ.is very limited.....contract was horrible.
I hope they trade up despite what it will take.
Jones is awful, it's time. It's overdue.
Is he expecting a different result?
Well his being able to throw from a sitting position sure is impressive. I don’t recall a performance as impressive as that since Jet’s Browning Nagle showed off his arm by throwing from a kneeling position.
Maybe he should switch to running back then. We may have an opening.
It is the same thing every year, Rj and Jones are the same type of player, good but not great and will never be the face of the frnachise...
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Is that people crap on Jones's 2022 season and say it wasn't that good anyway. Come on now, if you aren't a Jones fan, that is going way to far. He had an excellent 2022 season by all accounts. There are probably less than 5 QBs in the league ho could run for over 700 yards and 7 rushing TD's in a season like Jones did. Of course 15 Passing TD's were not enough, but the team was successful and won a damn playoff game when nobody gave them a chance to do so before the season. If you are going to criticize Jones, be fair about it.
Maybe he should switch to running back then. We may have an opening.
Our standards have completely dropped. Now a wild card playoff win is a triumph. And we need to keep giving chances to a QB who is unlikely to ever approach Ryan Tannehill.
There’s legit debate about how to get back to respectability but arguing that Jones is part of that path is kooky at this stage. It’s over.
It is the same thing every year, Rj and Jones are the same type of player, good but not great and will never be the face of the frnachise...
Unfortunately for everyone involved, I actually think RJ was better comparatively than DJ, which is partially why the two teams are where they are. At least RJ helped us get OG.
Jones is under contract and the most experienced QB on the roster. He will get every opportunity to compete for the job when he's healthy.
Hopefully the Giants greatly improve their pass protection and hopefully they pick a talented heir apparent.
Among the better outcomes is Jones establishes some trade value, and nets meaningful compensation in a trade.
Christian, what I enjoy about your posts is you keep the emotion out of it. I agree with this take and your posts on Jones the last few days. Both sides of this argument tend to be hyperbolic. I'm not a believer in Jones, but saying he sucks and completely dismissing 2022 is unfair. Saying Jones can move to a top tier QB with more weapons is just as absurd.
The fact is, the best course of action may be not drafting a QB in the first round and that very well may have nothing to do with Jones. Here is a very real scenario:
--The QBs the Giants like the most are drafted ahead of them. There is no available trade to be made.
--The QBs left on the board at 6 do not match the value of the pick according to their board.
--Schoen either takes the BPA at 6 or trades down to load up on more picks in 2024 & 2025.
--If a QB matches the value, NYG drafts a QB either later in the first or second/third rounds. If not, they don't force it.
--NYG goes into the season with Jones as the incumbent, but with a backup who can earn the starting job such as Taylor or Minshew (someone like that).
--NYG then assesses QB in 2025 where it would be more financially advantageous and ideally with some extra picks after a few trade downs from this year.
That very well could be the best course of action, but fans will scream that this screams Mara interference or doubling down again on Jones. It very likely would be neither.
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In comment 16390243 Eightshamrocks said:
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Is that people crap on Jones's 2022 season and say it wasn't that good anyway. Come on now, if you aren't a Jones fan, that is going way to far. He had an excellent 2022 season by all accounts. There are probably less than 5 QBs in the league ho could run for over 700 yards and 7 rushing TD's in a season like Jones did. Of course 15 Passing TD's were not enough, but the team was successful and won a damn playoff game when nobody gave them a chance to do so before the season. If you are going to criticize Jones, be fair about it.
Maybe he should switch to running back then. We may have an opening.
Or how about run a play action offensive with a 50/50 run pass ratio that plays to Jones's strengths. Hey, what a novel concept.
What are his passing strengths?
Our standards have completely dropped. Now a wild card playoff win is a triumph. And we need to keep giving chances to a QB who is unlikely to ever approach Ryan Tannehill.
There’s legit debate about how to get back to respectability but arguing that Jones is part of that path is kooky at this stage. It’s over.
It is the same thing every year, Rj and Jones are the same type of player, good but not great and will never be the face of the frnachise...
Along with Toppin, Ntilikina, along with Dotson/ Knox/ Trier to a lesser extent. Fans wildly overrating drafted players and expected a miraculous leap while ignoring the actual evidence right in front of them.
Fans also love to cling to outlier performances i.e. Jones against Minny/ Indy and 2nd half against Zona. While they ignore the other large body of work. Anyone can put together one good game, its about performance over time.
Most of the time it's not the coaching, surrounding talent or other excuses people throw out and the player just simply isn't any good.
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In comment 16390262 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16390243 Eightshamrocks said:
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Is that people crap on Jones's 2022 season and say it wasn't that good anyway. Come on now, if you aren't a Jones fan, that is going way to far. He had an excellent 2022 season by all accounts. There are probably less than 5 QBs in the league ho could run for over 700 yards and 7 rushing TD's in a season like Jones did. Of course 15 Passing TD's were not enough, but the team was successful and won a damn playoff game when nobody gave them a chance to do so before the season. If you are going to criticize Jones, be fair about it.
Maybe he should switch to running back then. We may have an opening.
Or how about run a play action offensive with a 50/50 run pass ratio that plays to Jones's strengths. Hey, what a novel concept.
What are his passing strengths?
Wait until he has A...
Wait until he has B...
Wait until he has C...
Wait until he has D...
Etc.
Etc.
Five years later, we are asked to wait some more.
.
Christian, what I enjoy about your posts is you keep the emotion out of it. I agree with this take and your posts on Jones the last few days. Both sides of this argument tend to be hyperbolic. I'm not a believer in Jones, but saying he sucks and completely dismissing 2022 is unfair. Saying Jones can move to a top tier QB with more weapons is just as absurd.
If we're being dispassionate, Jones was not a good passer in 2022. He had very poor peripheral passing stats, led league in passes behind LOS, near bottom in air yards and Y/A. His QBR was bolstered by his running. If you wantc your QB to be a good passer, 2022 doesn't help the case for Jones.
Going to war with that AND his injury clause, would be so monumentally stupid, even BW would agree with me. Moving on is THE only sensible option!
He didn't have an "excellent" season. He had a fine season.
There were 14 QBs who threw as many or more TDs than Jones totaled. Jones was 16th in QBs in total TDs, behind such BBI favorites as Justin Fields and Derek Carr, and 11th in total yards among QBs.
He was 25th in Y/A.
That was not an excellent season, no matter how many times you want to pretend it was.
If we're being dispassionate, Jones was not a good passer in 2022. He had very poor peripheral passing stats, led league in passes behind LOS, near bottom in air yards and Y/A. His QBR was bolstered by his running. If you wantc your QB to be a good passer, 2022 doesn't help the case for Jones.
This is spot on. Per NextGen, Jones was dead last in Intended Average Yards per pass attempt, and near the bottom in completed air yards per pass.
Ok, so now it's Jones' fault that Joe Judge sucked as a coach? Hilarious
Jones is under contract and the most experienced QB on the roster. He will get every opportunity to compete for the job when he's healthy.
Hopefully the Giants greatly improve their pass protection and hopefully they pick a talented heir apparent.
Among the better outcomes is Jones establishes some trade value, and nets meaningful compensation in a trade.
The only way Jones nets any value in a trade is if he’s good enough that the Giants would decide to keep him. Even then, teams are going to balk it giving up anything of value for a guy owed $40M a season who had one good year in 6.
Just move on.
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"Wait and see" year only to probably have to reset everything again if Daniel Jones only plays like he usually plays and gets another coach fired.
Ok, so now it's Jones' fault that Joe Judge sucked as a coach? Hilarious
Nothing ever is Jones fault
Come on, TTH. You're a smart guy and should know the old football saying.
You don't know what you have at QB until they complete a full six seasons...
;)
I hate the 100% anti Jones group and the 100% for Jones group. Why the hell can't some people find a middle road and just look at the overall picture.
Can they win games with Jones? Yes, they can win with Jones BUT, there is a LOT that has to happen in order for those wins to occur. The first and biggest one right off is he ahs to be able to play and that knee and that NECK are issues for sure. Secondly, he needs to have a good Oline (obvious in general) but that Oline needs to be solid in areas that you can't always be solid (like no pressure can get through no matter how many they are bringing and they cannot suffer any injuries- basically good needs to be perfect good- meaning no changes period) as Jones doesn't adapt to change at all. Thenw e need a very good running game and his running game has to be available as he just doesn't threaten enough passing to rely on that..
So again, can you win with him, yes you can but it is more he is there than he is the reason or main factor.
I also don't believe anybody is making excuses for Jones. I'm not; what I think we are doing is making the simple observation that he's still the best option the Giants have going forward, but I fully expect them to be looking at other options. The problem is that right now it doesn't look like the other options are really all that great. So if life gives you lemons make lemonade. And right now that appears to be since we don't have a great QB and really aren't likely to find one let's focus on building up the team around the QB whoever he is at the same time as they look for an upgrade at the position. Newsflash: In the NFL you can actually do both!
In the meantime, I am still waiting for the mob to identify this guy that is actually going to be so much better because thru all the bleating we've actually heard crickets on who and what actually is going to be an upgrade.
Naw, Joe Judge was a bad coaching choice as head coach regardless of who the QB was.
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If Jones stayed healthy. Or if the Giants invested in the QB position every year.
Naw, Joe Judge was a bad coaching choice as head coach regardless of who the QB was.
Nobody thought that after his first year. Mara was going to bring him back until the press conference meltdown, so he definitely would have been back if Jones stayed healthy.
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In comment 16390118 Greg from LI said:
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We'll hear the same impassioned pleading next year.
Some people never learn.
Wrong. Jones will be out of excuses then. He doesn't get another chance after this season, no matter the circumstances. Just the nature of the beast sometimes. Hopefully it won't come to that.
Even as a fan of his, what would you put the odds at that Jones does enough in 2024 to justify keeping him with the contract for 2025?
For me its 1/100 and that's probably being generous. So why waste and wait another season? Start the process now of finding a replacement.
he replacement is any good, 2 years, 3 years, 4 years before you are ready to move on. Then again the could get lucky and find another Phil Simms or Eli.
Now the guy plays like the worst qb in the league and suffers 2 major injuries and they are people that still want to bring him back?
At this point I wouldn't even be surprised if he gets another coach fired.
They will complain that the NYG ruined DJ by not giving him enough support.
to the OP
if you aren't concerned by the way DeVito and Taylor performed compared to Jones this past season then you are in DeNile in my opinion
I've visited DeNile - lots of pharoahs are buried there - and lots of stuffed Crocs
In the meantime, I am still waiting for the mob to identify this guy that is actually going to be so much better because thru all the bleating we've actually heard crickets on who and what actually is going to be an upgrade.
I can answer this.
I believe two issues can be addressed at once. Upgrading the OL and QB.
So, if we improve the OL, I have little doubt that Daniels, Williams, Maye, Nix are considerably more talented than Jones and will produce better.
Anything else?
to the OP
if you aren't concerned by the way DeVito and Taylor performed compared to Jones this past season then you are in DeNile in my opinion
I've visited DeNile - lots of pharoahs are buried there - and lots of stuffed Crocs
Gidie: I'll let the OP speak for himself, but the Giants are probably phrasing the question differently. It isn't who played better this year although I've made the case that given the differences in the schedules they faced as well as who was playing when when they played that the Giants would have been 0-5 with either TD or TT in those first 5 games and that Jones likely would have won 2-3 more games had he played the last half,
Here's the question do you win more games with the DeVito or Taylor of 2023 or Jones of 2022? Maybe its doesn't happen that way but what are your other options.
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"Wait and see" year only to probably have to reset everything again if Daniel Jones only plays like he usually plays and gets another coach fired.
Ok, so now it's Jones' fault that Joe Judge sucked as a coach? Hilarious
They can both suck. Both things are possible in the same universe. There were games that could have been won if Jones didn't suck, and that would have been enough to save Judge's ass with this ownership.
Daily reminder Mara had to be pushed off his soapbox to fire Judge that year.
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make it stop
to the OP
if you aren't concerned by the way DeVito and Taylor performed compared to Jones this past season then you are in DeNile in my opinion
I've visited DeNile - lots of pharoahs are buried there - and lots of stuffed Crocs
Gidie: I'll let the OP speak for himself, but the Giants are probably phrasing the question differently. It isn't who played better this year although I've made the case that given the differences in the schedules they faced as well as who was playing when when they played that the Giants would have been 0-5 with either TD or TT in those first 5 games and that Jones likely would have won 2-3 more games had he played the last half,
Here's the question do you win more games with the DeVito or Taylor of 2023 or Jones of 2022? Maybe its doesn't happen that way but what are your other options.
I agree with this. Also, it is never mentioned enough by the anti Jones group just how different this offense looks with no Barkley and no Thomas. It's actually a night and day difference. The back ups for both guys are some of the worst players in the league. And that is what Jones was dealing with. Of course, he isn't completely absolved of blame. He did have a regression. The point is, he had the worst luck possible to lose both Barkley and Thomas at the same time.
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In the meantime, I am still waiting for the mob to identify this guy that is actually going to be so much better because thru all the bleating we've actually heard crickets on who and what actually is going to be an upgrade.
I can answer this.
I believe two issues can be addressed at once. Upgrading the OL and QB.
So, if we improve the OL, I have little doubt that Daniels, Williams, Maye, Nix are considerably more talented than Jones and will produce better.
First of all the Giants aren't going to get any of the 1st three. Is Nix going to be better. If they draft him I hope but it is hardly a lock. So basically what you guys are saying that the Giants absolutely have to take the best QB they can with the 6th pick even if he's a reach. Cause if you want to draft a QB you can't fuck around. You can't try and trade down because if the guy is worth anywhere near a top 10 pick other teams like Atlanta and Minnesota will take him. And if he's not worth a top 10 pick you are really rolling the dice.
You can actually look these things up but in the last ten years 40 or so QBs have been taken with 1st or second round picks. Roughly 10 have turned out to be pretty good QBs, but 8 of those were selected with top 12 picks. There have been 18 QBs taken thru the rest of the 1st and 2nd and only 2-3 have turned out to be any good.
What I am waiting to see how many of you will scream to the high heavens that 'GD it all the effing Giants reached' if they take say Nix at 6.
Anything else?
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One has to think most of these posts are originating from inside Jints central.
Try again. Just a concerned citizen. If you are going to critize Jones, doing fIrly. If you want to replace Jones, tell me with whom. The answer isn't "oh anybody but Jones". That seemes to be the company line for the Jones haters.
Jones haters or Giants fans sick of watching a guy who is Dave Brown level bad. I think many, many suggestions have been made as to replacements.
Are you on direct deposit or still getting a paper check from the PR department?
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In comment 16390412 lax counsel said:
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One has to think most of these posts are originating from inside Jints central.
Try again. Just a concerned citizen. If you are going to critize Jones, doing fIrly. If you want to replace Jones, tell me with whom. The answer isn't "oh anybody but Jones". That seemes to be the company line for the Jones haters.
Jones haters or Giants fans sick of watching a guy who is Dave Brown level bad. I think many, many suggestions have been made as to replacements.
Are you on direct deposit or still getting a paper check from the PR department?
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In comment 16390417 Eightshamrocks said:
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In comment 16390412 lax counsel said:
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One has to think most of these posts are originating from inside Jints central.
Try again. Just a concerned citizen. If you are going to critize Jones, doing fIrly. If you want to replace Jones, tell me with whom. The answer isn't "oh anybody but Jones". That seemes to be the company line for the Jones haters.
Jones haters or Giants fans sick of watching a guy who is Dave Brown level bad. I think many, many suggestions have been made as to replacements.
Are you on direct deposit or still getting a paper check from the PR department?
Dave Brown level? When did Dave Brown rush for 700 yards in a season? When did Brown make the playoffs? When did Brown win a playoff game?
So direct deposit?
Isometimes wonder i people watch other football teams outside of the Giants. Maybe get an idea of comparison.
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are you his agent?
I hate the 100% anti Jones group and the 100% for Jones group. Why the hell can't some people find a middle road and just look at the overall picture.
Can they win games with Jones? Yes, they can win with Jones BUT, there is a LOT that has to happen in order for those wins to occur. The first and biggest one right off is he ahs to be able to play and that knee and that NECK are issues for sure. Secondly, he needs to have a good Oline (obvious in general) but that Oline needs to be solid in areas that you can't always be solid (like no pressure can get through no matter how many they are bringing and they cannot suffer any injuries- basically good needs to be perfect good- meaning no changes period) as Jones doesn't adapt to change at all. Thenw e need a very good running game and his running game has to be available as he just doesn't threaten enough passing to rely on that..
So again, can you win with him, yes you can but it is more he is there than he is the reason or main factor.
Is the middle road being that Jones averages 4.4 wins a season?
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One has to think most of these posts are originating from inside Jints central.
Try again. Just a concerned citizen. If you are going to critize Jones, doing fIrly. If you want to replace Jones, tell me with whom. The answer isn't "oh anybody but Jones". That seemes to be the company line for the Jones haters.
But outside of whoever the Jets were running out there at QB, anyone would be better than Jones. He got outplayed by DeVito. I don think it's a stretch to say he's easily replaceable talent wise. If he was tagged instead of signing that ridiculous contract there's a zero percent chance he's a giant come September
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In comment 16390412 lax counsel said:
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One has to think most of these posts are originating from inside Jints central.
Try again. Just a concerned citizen. If you are going to critize Jones, doing fIrly. If you want to replace Jones, tell me with whom. The answer isn't "oh anybody but Jones". That seemes to be the company line for the Jones haters.
But outside of whoever the Jets were running out there at QB, anyone would be better than Jones. He got outplayed by DeVito. I don think it's a stretch to say he's easily replaceable talent wise. If he was tagged instead of signing that ridiculous contract there's a zero percent chance he's a giant come September
Isometimes wonder i people watch other football teams outside of the Giants. Maybe get an idea of comparison.
Well, one of us does.
I only watch competent teams play, therefore never the Giants (at least in the recent past). However, not watching the Giants means I cannot make an honest comparison to competent teams.
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In comment 16390417 Eightshamrocks said:
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In comment 16390412 lax counsel said:
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One has to think most of these posts are originating from inside Jints central.
Try again. Just a concerned citizen. If you are going to critize Jones, doing fIrly. If you want to replace Jones, tell me with whom. The answer isn't "oh anybody but Jones". That seemes to be the company line for the Jones haters.
But outside of whoever the Jets were running out there at QB, anyone would be better than Jones. He got outplayed by DeVito. I don think it's a stretch to say he's easily replaceable talent wise. If he was tagged instead of signing that ridiculous contract there's a zero percent chance he's a giant come September
For the 100th time, Devito did not out play Jones. He just had a softer schedule plus a gealthy Barkley and a healthy Thomas. Then he got benched for Tyrod.
Jones is probably better but this season DeVito 100% outplayed him. Make any excuse you want that is the truth.
First of all the Giants aren't going to get any of the 1st three. Is Nix going to be better. If they draft him I hope but it is hardly a lock. So basically what you guys are saying that the Giants absolutely have to take the best QB they can with the 6th pick even if he's a reach. Cause if you want to draft a QB you can't fuck around. You can't try and trade down because if the guy is worth anywhere near a top 10 pick other teams like Atlanta and Minnesota will take him. And if he's not worth a top 10 pick you are really rolling the dice.
You can actually look these things up but in the last ten years 40 or so QBs have been taken with 1st or second round picks. Roughly 10 have turned out to be pretty good QBs, but 8 of those were selected with top 12 picks. There have been 18 QBs taken thru the rest of the 1st and 2nd and only 2-3 have turned out to be any good.
What I am waiting to see how many of you will scream to the high heavens that 'GD it all the effing Giants reached' if they take say Nix at 6.
Well, if Schoen really wants to upgrade the position, he negotiates a package to get one of the three. That's what a great GM figures out. Whether he wants to step up to actually do that is a completely different discussion.
Regardless, in keeping with the theme, I would not over-draft Nix or any of the others at #6. No need to repeat that massive mistake.
However, I would look at the others - Nix, Penix, Pratt, JJMac - on day two or maybe even late day one. Again, I find all of them more interesting than Jones.
Remember, DJ's career record over five years is 23-37-1, including his two playoff games. To put that in context, Dave Brown was 26-34. So in order to achieve the same winning percentage as arguably the most hated quarterback in Giants history, DJ would have to go 11-6 in 2024. The persistent love for DJ from NYG fans in the face of all factual evidence to the contrary is arguably the most irrational perspective in major sports history.
We don't need patience. We need an elite quarterback. Not a year from now. Right now.
Some people never learn.
He may suck again playing behind the same OL
Remember, DJ's career record over five years is 23-37-1, including his two playoff games. To put that in context, Dave Brown was 26-34. So in order to achieve the same winning percentage as arguably the most hated quarterback in Giants history, DJ would have to go 11-6 in 2024. The persistent love for DJ from NYG fans in the face of all factual evidence to the contrary is arguably the most irrational perspective in major sports history.
We don't need patience. We need an elite quarterback. Not a year from now. Right now.
And where is that elite QB coming from? After you wave your magic wand? AS I have said repeatedly, the Pat Mahomes of the World do not grow on trees. Also, small quibble but you shouldn't count the Raiders game as a loss for Jones. He didn't fnihs the game. So 22-36-1.
Or you draft a RB that's better than Matt stinking Brida
They are. And three of them are on this thread. Mbavaro will probably be here shortly to join the OP and his buddies kickoff and Snorkels.
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And then Sy confirmed it with his "slow processing speed" scouting report prior to the draft. Nothing has changed after five years. Yes, he can beat bad teams from time to time given clever coaching and a strong running game. But he has won only five games against winning teams in his tenure here (teams that ended the season with winning records). His average passing stats for those five games are: 21-30 (69%) for 238 Yds and 1.6 TDs per game. This isn't even aspirational game manager level performance expectations. And these are the very best five games in his career.
Remember, DJ's career record over five years is 23-37-1, including his two playoff games. To put that in context, Dave Brown was 26-34. So in order to achieve the same winning percentage as arguably the most hated quarterback in Giants history, DJ would have to go 11-6 in 2024. The persistent love for DJ from NYG fans in the face of all factual evidence to the contrary is arguably the most irrational perspective in major sports history.
We don't need patience. We need an elite quarterback. Not a year from now. Right now.
And where is that elite QB coming from? After you wave your magic wand? AS I have said repeatedly, the Pat Mahomes of the World do not grow on trees. Also, small quibble but you shouldn't count the Raiders game as a loss for Jones. He didn't fnihs the game. So 22-36-1.
He played like garbage. Full stop. Win or loss aside.
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In comment 16390118 Greg from LI said:
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We'll hear the same impassioned pleading next year.
Some people never learn.
Wrong. Jones will be out of excuses then. He doesn't get another chance after this season, no matter the circumstances. Just the nature of the beast sometimes. Hopefully it won't come to that.
We've definitely heard this before, 2021 in particular. He was mostly underwhelming, got injured, which led to a front office/coaching house cleaning and the decline of his 5th year option. Unfortunately, there were no good QBs available in the 22 draft, and he performed in a no-pressure year and now we're in our current mess.
I think it's very likley we see the same scenario play out in 2024-25. He's inconsistent and gets injured, Daboll gets fired, Giants aren't in a position to get a good QB in the 2025 draft, they don't want to absorb the $22 million dead cap (and maybe the injury guarantee) so they give Jones another no-pressure year in 2025 with the ancipation that he'll be off the roster once it's all said and done. However, he's plays well and gets the Giants to 9 wins, the bring him back, he declines again, rinse and repeat until he retires.
NO PRESSURE YEAR? That's why, IMO, the DJHC has no credibility, NO PRESSURE YEAR? His option was not picked up, HE WAS PLAYING FOR HIS FOOTBALL LIFE. Is there any greater pressure than that? He excelled under those Hornandez conditions.
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First of all the Giants aren't going to get any of the 1st three. Is Nix going to be better. If they draft him I hope but it is hardly a lock. So basically what you guys are saying that the Giants absolutely have to take the best QB they can with the 6th pick even if he's a reach. Cause if you want to draft a QB you can't fuck around. You can't try and trade down because if the guy is worth anywhere near a top 10 pick other teams like Atlanta and Minnesota will take him. And if he's not worth a top 10 pick you are really rolling the dice.
You can actually look these things up but in the last ten years 40 or so QBs have been taken with 1st or second round picks. Roughly 10 have turned out to be pretty good QBs, but 8 of those were selected with top 12 picks. There have been 18 QBs taken thru the rest of the 1st and 2nd and only 2-3 have turned out to be any good.
What I am waiting to see how many of you will scream to the high heavens that 'GD it all the effing Giants reached' if they take say Nix at 6.
Well, if Schoen really wants to upgrade the position, he negotiates a package to get one of the three. That's what a great GM figures out. Whether he wants to step up to actually do that is a completely different discussion.
Regardless, in keeping with the theme, I would not over-draft Nix or any of the others at #6. No need to repeat that massive mistake.
However, I would look at the others - Nix, Penix, Pratt, JJMac - on day two or maybe even late day one. Again, I find all of them more interesting than Jones.
Remember, DJ's career record over five years is 23-37-1, including his two playoff games. To put that in context, Dave Brown was 26-34. So in order to achieve the same winning percentage as arguably the most hated quarterback in Giants history, DJ would have to go 11-6 in 2024. The persistent love for DJ from NYG fans in the face of all factual evidence to the contrary is arguably the most irrational perspective in major sports history.
We don't need patience. We need an elite quarterback. Not a year from now. Right now.
I think NextGen's Intended Yards Average stat (average distance the ball actually travels all attempts) really captures who Jones is a passer.
In 2019, he was 20th.
In 2020, he was 27th.
In 2021, he was 33rd.
In 2022, he was dead last in the league.
In 2023, he was 39th.
He's a QB who really doesn't drive the ball downfield enough. That's either due to limited physical skills and/or his inability to read the defense pre and post.
The only interesting part of Jones's game anymore is his running skill.
Regardless, in keeping with the theme, I would not over-draft Nix or any of the others at #6. No need to repeat that massive mistake.
However, I would look at the others - Nix, Penix, Pratt, JJMac - on day two or maybe even late day one. Again, I find all of them more interesting than Jones.
Putting together a package to move up to get one of the top three is truly living in a fantasy world. Show me any GM that successful made a deal with a team that didn't want to trade out.
And if you have to wait until later in the first you will be looking at a project with about a 10-15% chance of turning into a good player. And I have no problem doing that. But you have to accept that the guy is very much a developmental prospect who likely may never amount to much and even if he does likely will take some time.
There is an interesting corollary here that people have said on this topic that Schoen Daboll should take a young QB to save their jobs. Ignoring the fact that NFL don't plot their moves based on what will save their jobs the irony is that their best odds of keeping their jobs would be to keep the guy who gives them the best chance to win games next year and that's Jones; certainly its not likely a second-tier rookie QB.
The Senior Bowl performance is very mixed. I didn't think he looked very good overall when I watched. Granted, I did not see very snap. Only what NFLN showed.
Some reports since support my view.
However, there are others that concluded that Nix helped himself.
So, it was a very subjective performance for sure.
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One has to think most of these posts are originating from inside Jints central.
They are. And three of them are on this thread. Mbavaro will probably be here shortly to join the OP and his buddies kickoff and Snorkels.
Mbavaro might be Hanlon himself.
I am concerned about how much Penix was helped by his top notch receiving corps. I can’t figure out Nix and he keeps on sucking in certain situations, which makes me think he is an NFL backup. I think Schoen needs to bite the bullet and engineer a big trade up or, if he thinks Daniels or Maye will slide, pick them at 6.
The franchise right now is rudderless and going nowhere. An intervention is needed.
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Remember, DJ's career record over five years is 23-37-1, including his two playoff games. To put that in context, Dave Brown was 26-34. So in order to achieve the same winning percentage as arguably the most hated quarterback in Giants history, DJ would have to go 11-6 in 2024. The persistent love for DJ from NYG fans in the face of all factual evidence to the contrary is arguably the most irrational perspective in major sports history.
We don't need patience. We need an elite quarterback. Not a year from now. Right now.
I think NextGen's Intended Yards Average stat (average distance the ball actually travels all attempts) really captures who Jones is a passer.
In 2019, he was 20th.
In 2020, he was 27th.
In 2021, he was 33rd.
In 2022, he was dead last in the league.
In 2023, he was 39th.
He's a QB who really doesn't drive the ball downfield enough. That's either due to limited physical skills and/or his inability to read the defense pre and post.
The only interesting part of Jones's game anymore is his running skill.
Is it just possible that in his career with the Giants Jones hasn't thrown deep is that a) he hasn't much of a deep threat among his receivers ever and b) has always played behind what you guys have been howling about for years has been one of the worst OLs in the league. Otherwise what's his excuse?
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In comment 16390412 lax counsel said:
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One has to think most of these posts are originating from inside Jints central.
They are. And three of them are on this thread. Mbavaro will probably be here shortly to join the OP and his buddies kickoff and Snorkels.
Mbavaro might be Hanlon himself.
Mbavaro literally exists solely to come on threads and tell posters that they don't know what actually goes on inside Jints Central and therefore their points are invalid. It's weird.
I'm the equalizer-just trying to balance the odds in Jones's favor in the eyes of the anti Jones faction of the fanbase.
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Remember, DJ's career record over five years is 23-37-1, including his two playoff games. To put that in context, Dave Brown was 26-34. So in order to achieve the same winning percentage as arguably the most hated quarterback in Giants history, DJ would have to go 11-6 in 2024. The persistent love for DJ from NYG fans in the face of all factual evidence to the contrary is arguably the most irrational perspective in major sports history.
We don't need patience. We need an elite quarterback. Not a year from now. Right now.
I think NextGen's Intended Yards Average stat (average distance the ball actually travels all attempts) really captures who Jones is a passer.
In 2019, he was 20th.
In 2020, he was 27th.
In 2021, he was 33rd.
In 2022, he was dead last in the league.
In 2023, he was 39th.
He's a QB who really doesn't drive the ball downfield enough. That's either due to limited physical skills and/or his inability to read the defense pre and post.
The only interesting part of Jones's game anymore is his running skill.
One, he does not appear to be reading the defenses, especially pressure/blitzers, pre-snap. This was highlighted many times by a few different analysts over the first few weeks this year. He was not checking to hot routes or even recognizing when he had to get rid of the ball immediately. Two, he doesn't seem to read the coverages well pre or post snap. He also doesn't seem to properly process his progressions. Lastly, when he does break the pocket, which is often, he has not displayed the ability to find and hit open receivers on the move. This is really what sets him apart from the top mobile QBs. They make plays downfield when on the move, he rarely even gets rid of the ball. Hell, even Taylor showed a better talent for this.
I do acknowledge that the OL has to impact his psychological game. I'm sure it messed with his internal clock, trust in protection, etc. But, a truly great QB overcomes this, at least to a decent degree. They do this by properly processing the D and his routes, which I've already stated above, Jones doesn't do. I'm sorry, but great, or even very good, QBs don't require perfect protection and WIDE open receivers every snap.
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In comment 16390412 lax counsel said:
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One has to think most of these posts are originating from inside Jints central.
They are. And three of them are on this thread. Mbavaro will probably be here shortly to join the OP and his buddies kickoff and Snorkels.
Mbavaro might be Hanlon himself.
Very mature Terps! When you can't win the argument on the merits throw out insults.
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The OP has to be a relative of Jones, a Mara, or Jones himself.
I'm the equalizer-just trying to balance the odds in Jones's favor in the eyes of the anti Jones faction of the fanbase.
Crowd control.
Although I'm curious how this changes the odds? Does poor Danny's level of play hinge on how much the fans get behind him? Is he Tinkerbell?
I'm not sure what bothers me more, the fact that the Giants so obviously have burner accounts tending to the fans on BBI and Twitter, or the fact that the people manning those burners aren't especially bright.
It's now gotten to the point where they're ignoring the facts.
Tyrod and Devito BOTH were more successful then Jones. In stats, in wins, etc.
Doesn't mean they're the answer by any means, just did better.
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are you his agent?
I hate the 100% anti Jones group and the 100% for Jones group. Why the hell can't some people find a middle road and just look at the overall picture.
Can they win games with Jones? Yes, they can win with Jones BUT, there is a LOT that has to happen in order for those wins to occur. The first and biggest one right off is he ahs to be able to play and that knee and that NECK are issues for sure. Secondly, he needs to have a good Oline (obvious in general) but that Oline needs to be solid in areas that you can't always be solid (like no pressure can get through no matter how many they are bringing and they cannot suffer any injuries- basically good needs to be perfect good- meaning no changes period) as Jones doesn't adapt to change at all. Thenw e need a very good running game and his running game has to be available as he just doesn't threaten enough passing to rely on that..
So again, can you win with him, yes you can but it is more he is there than he is the reason or main factor.
What really bothers me is those who point out "but we can get out of the contract after next year". Who gives a fuck? What that really means is we are still stuck with him this year, at a huge cap hit. In order to fill the roster as we want, we will likely need to re-structure him, which keeps hi hear longer, or do the same with someone else we may not have really wanted to.
He is an albatross who, right now, is holding back the progress of this organization. He would have to have a completely unreal season to reverse that assessment, which is what I said last off season, to be able to justify the deal he was getting. Not only did he not do that; he REGRESSED. So, please stop with the patience or why do people hate him or we need to support him. He has not lived up to his draft spot and he is not living up to his monster contract. If we use that contract or this inexplicable infatuation with him as a reason to not take one of 6 VERY good QBs, then this organization is fucked for a long time. Even if Nix, Penix, or McCarthy are nowhere near what we expect from the other 3, they are still expected to all be better than Jones. What does that tell you?
I feel similarly. Based on adding everything up visually, I would conclude he toggles between average and average plus. Not a rag arm, but not a howitzer, either.
If pressed, I would say Nix's best skills are mobility and making impromptu plays.
I'm curious to hear his hand size.
Can they win games with Jones? Yes, they can win with Jones BUT, there is a LOT that has to happen in order for those wins to occur…
I would add to this that it’s highly unlikely for the Giants to win with Jones when he is $40 million against the cap. He needs a a lot of quality players to be successful and the Giants can’t afford to sign them with Jones’s contract taking up so much of the cap.
It's crazy. I actually really like the Giants' WRs, and greens to think of them as victims of their surroundings.
I keep coming back to the possibility of Penix throwing downfield to Slayton and Hyatt, off play action in 12 personnel. I think that would be both fun to watch and, more importantly, very effective.
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In your opinion, how is Nix’s arm talent? On many of his passes he looks like Danny Kanell, but then there the occasional downfield strikes that definitely aren’t Elway like but are NFL level. I can’t figure it out. What do you think?
I feel similarly. Based on adding everything up visually, I would conclude he toggles between average and average plus. Not a rag arm, but not a howitzer, either.
If pressed, I would say Nix's best skills are mobility and making impromptu plays.
I'm curious to hear his hand size.
I believe his hands measured 9 7/8 at the Senior Bowl, which is above average.
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In comment 16390560 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 16390412 lax counsel said:
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One has to think most of these posts are originating from inside Jints central.
They are. And three of them are on this thread. Mbavaro will probably be here shortly to join the OP and his buddies kickoff and Snorkels.
Mbavaro might be Hanlon himself.
Mbavaro literally exists solely to come on threads and tell posters that they don't know what actually goes on inside Jints Central and therefore their points are invalid. It's weird.
Yes, very noticeable. They are nervous inside the building or just bored since they don't do much anyway.
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In your opinion, how is Nix’s arm talent? On many of his passes he looks like Danny Kanell, but then there the occasional downfield strikes that definitely aren’t Elway like but are NFL level. I can’t figure it out. What do you think?
I feel similarly. Based on adding everything up visually, I would conclude he toggles between average and average plus. Not a rag arm, but not a howitzer, either.
If pressed, I would say Nix's best skills are mobility and making impromptu plays.
I'm curious to hear his hand size.
I think I saw that Nix came in a shade under 9.5".
Penix came in well over 10". Huge reason he throws the ball the way he does, including in weather.
I don't care if you believe it is all his fault, partially his fault, or whatever. The bottom line is, I don't see a QB a team expecting to win should have starting. And if you believe it's not his fault and he needs perfect conditions, then this isn't the team for him.
I do think if he went to a team with a better OL and REALLY good receivers, he would be better than he has shown here. But, I do not think he elevates any team to an 11+ win season.
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I woke up from this dream where Tyrod Taylor nailed a deep throw to Slayton for a TD. I must have been asleep at the time. Can’t be real.
It's crazy. I actually really like the Giants' WRs, and greens to think of them as victims of their surroundings.
I keep coming back to the possibility of Penix throwing downfield to Slayton and Hyatt, off play action in 12 personnel. I think that would be both fun to watch and, more importantly, very effective.
What insult did I throw out?
And as for Jones I won that argument on merit back in 2020. The time since has just been venting as a result of my immense frustration with the Giants' future and stupidity.
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In comment 16390584 cosmicj said:
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I woke up from this dream where Tyrod Taylor nailed a deep throw to Slayton for a TD. I must have been asleep at the time. Can’t be real.
It's crazy. I actually really like the Giants' WRs, and greens to think of them as victims of their surroundings.
I keep coming back to the possibility of Penix throwing downfield to Slayton and Hyatt, off play action in 12 personnel. I think that would be both fun to watch and, more importantly, very effective.
I kind of think similarly. Then, I wonder, but what if this OL still sucks? Penix has not faced any pressure. When he faced a little, he had a very nondescript game. His arm talent is amazing. But, I really put a big "?" over whether he can handle NFL pressure and process the field quickly. He won't have all day the way he did the last 2 seasons, even with a good OL.
That's what you pay Daboll for: to scheme protection using play action and personnel packages.
Penix is definitely a pocket passer, but he's no statue in the pocket. He will move within the pocket to buy time and create a throwing lane.
He also gives you a big advantage in a key way: he makes you defend the whole field. Unlike Jones, he will pull the trigger and he will challenge you deep outside the numbers. He will throw people open, and he will throw accurately to people that are covered.
In short, the ball will come out. He won't sit in the pocket patting it.
I think I saw that Nix came in a shade under 9.5".
Penix came in well over 10". Huge reason he throws the ball the way he does, including in weather.
The NFLN crew interviewed Penix during one of the practices.
Jeremiah asked him to hold up his hand.
It looked like one of Novak Djokovic's tennis rackets.
There just doesn't seem to be much support for this at all, and worse, the existing support seems either tepid or based in fantasy.
Look at all of this and imagine the hostile and high-pressure environment Jones enters next year. Do you envision a big comeback season, or him being benched after 4 games?
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Remember, DJ's career record over five years is 23-37-1, including his two playoff games. To put that in context, Dave Brown was 26-34. So in order to achieve the same winning percentage as arguably the most hated quarterback in Giants history, DJ would have to go 11-6 in 2024. The persistent love for DJ from NYG fans in the face of all factual evidence to the contrary is arguably the most irrational perspective in major sports history.
We don't need patience. We need an elite quarterback. Not a year from now. Right now.
I think NextGen's Intended Yards Average stat (average distance the ball actually travels all attempts) really captures who Jones is a passer.
In 2019, he was 20th.
In 2020, he was 27th.
In 2021, he was 33rd.
In 2022, he was dead last in the league.
In 2023, he was 39th.
He's a QB who really doesn't drive the ball downfield enough. That's either due to limited physical skills and/or his inability to read the defense pre and post.
The only interesting part of Jones's game anymore is his running skill.
So very true. And to be 39th in a league of 32 teams is as scary as it gets...
There just doesn't seem to be much support for this at all, and worse, the existing support seems either tepid or based in fantasy.
Look at all of this and imagine the hostile and high-pressure environment Jones enters next year. Do you envision a big comeback season, or him being benched after 4 games?
The far majority of Giant fans are done with Jones. Far majority.
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I think I saw that Nix came in a shade under 9.5".
Penix came in well over 10". Huge reason he throws the ball the way he does, including in weather.
The NFLN crew interviewed Penix during one of the practices.
Jeremiah asked him to hold up his hand.
It looked like one of Novak Djokovic's tennis rackets.
I have watched a ton of Penix and Nix the last two years. I'll be happy to admit it if I'm wrong but I think they're both better than we're hearing from the consensus, and the criticisms of both don't track with what I think I've been watching.
I'd be thrilled if the Giants left this draft with either, and I'd want them to start immediately.
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Remember, DJ's career record over five years is 23-37-1, including his two playoff games. To put that in context, Dave Brown was 26-34. So in order to achieve the same winning percentage as arguably the most hated quarterback in Giants history, DJ would have to go 11-6 in 2024. The persistent love for DJ from NYG fans in the face of all factual evidence to the contrary is arguably the most irrational perspective in major sports history.
We don't need patience. We need an elite quarterback. Not a year from now. Right now.
I think NextGen's Intended Yards Average stat (average distance the ball actually travels all attempts) really captures who Jones is a passer.
In 2019, he was 20th.
In 2020, he was 27th.
In 2021, he was 33rd.
In 2022, he was dead last in the league.
In 2023, he was 39th.
He's a QB who really doesn't drive the ball downfield enough. That's either due to limited physical skills and/or his inability to read the defense pre and post.
The only interesting part of Jones's game anymore is his running skill.
We are way, way past "give him a chance" territory.
We are way, way past "give him a chance" territory.
BBI is going to drive us all insane.
Just my personal opinion is that there are two that I am highly confident in and five that based on observable talent or accomplishments appear to have a chance, though might come down to development and situation. But it's not for me to decide. At the end of the day I minimally want to have someone we can develop and compete with Jones. I'd love to have a slam dunk guy we can move onto, but outside of a trade up there's a good chance the best we can do is get one of the five to come in and compete. We my not get our guy this year but the way I look at it, I'd rather not settle as the rebuild won't be complete this year regardless of what we do.
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He's only behind Eli, Simms, Conerly, and Collins.
We are way, way past "give him a chance" territory.
BBI is going to drive us all insane.
I'm becoming familiar with this GIF.
We are way, way past "give him a chance" territory.
He's going to have to get into the top three before certain people stop telling us "OK, after this next season there are no more excuses for Jones"
Just my personal opinion is that there are two that I am highly confident in and five that based on observable talent or accomplishments appear to have a chance, though might come down to development and situation. But it's not for me to decide. At the end of the day I minimally want to have someone we can develop and compete with Jones. I'd love to have a slam dunk guy we can move onto, but outside of a trade up there's a good chance the best we can do is get one of the five to come in and compete. We my not get our guy this year but the way I look at it, I'd rather not settle as the rebuild won't be complete this year regardless of what we do.
Trying with literally anyone else is a way better strategy than continuing to trot out Daniel Jones.
If it fails so what, it’s going to fail with Jones too.
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And the labeling of the pro-Jones posters as shills, has again enforced in my mind that the Giants have really not thought this through if they actually intend to go with Jones as the intended starter.
There just doesn't seem to be much support for this at all, and worse, the existing support seems either tepid or based in fantasy.
Look at all of this and imagine the hostile and high-pressure environment Jones enters next year. Do you envision a big comeback season, or him being benched after 4 games?
The far majority of Giant fans are done with Jones. Far majority.
I'll add to that, is there any evidence of a QB in history figuring it all out in year 6 on the same team? I would think the odds are overwhelmingly against him ascending to top qb status (or even mediocre).
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There is no way to accurately rate Jones (and Barkley for that matter) when they have both played behind terrible offensive lines. No one could have succeeded with the worst OL I have ever seen when Jones was playing this year. Banks hit the nail on the head. Fix the oline for once and get a TE who can block. And by fix, I don't mean banking on projects. The top priorty this offseason should be the OL before anything else at whatever cost.
Except, they both played behind a similar OL last year and everyone waqs gushing about them and the team.
Ezeudu, McKethan, Schmitz, Bredsen and Neal the same line as last year? Again, the worst I have seen since 1965. That's what Jones was dealing with. Jailbreaks. Deep threats, another QB...none of that matters when you can't fucking block!
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In comment 16390582 Since1965 said:
****
Ezeudu, McKethan, Schmitz, Bredsen and Neal the same line as last year? Again, the worst I have seen since 1965. That's what Jones was dealing with. Jailbreaks. Deep threats, another QB...none of that matters when you can't fucking block!
DJ was outplayed by a journeyman and an undrafted rookie Mr. Pottymouth! Do you kiss DJ’s mother with that mouth?
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In comment 16390648 Lambuth_Special said:
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And the labeling of the pro-Jones posters as shills, has again enforced in my mind that the Giants have really not thought this through if they actually intend to go with Jones as the intended starter.
There just doesn't seem to be much support for this at all, and worse, the existing support seems either tepid or based in fantasy.
Look at all of this and imagine the hostile and high-pressure environment Jones enters next year. Do you envision a big comeback season, or him being benched after 4 games?
The far majority of Giant fans are done with Jones. Far majority.
I'll add to that, is there any evidence of a QB in history figuring it all out in year 6 on the same team? I would think the odds are overwhelmingly against him ascending to top qb status (or even mediocre).
Phil Simms but who's counting!!
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In comment 16390582 Since1965 said:
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There is no way to accurately rate Jones (and Barkley for that matter) when they have both played behind terrible offensive lines. No one could have succeeded with the worst OL I have ever seen when Jones was playing this year. Banks hit the nail on the head. Fix the oline for once and get a TE who can block. And by fix, I don't mean banking on projects. The top priorty this offseason should be the OL before anything else at whatever cost.
Except, they both played behind a similar OL last year and everyone waqs gushing about them and the team.
Ezeudu, McKethan, Schmitz, Bredsen and Neal the same line as last year? Again, the worst I have seen since 1965. That's what Jones was dealing with. Jailbreaks. Deep threats, another QB...none of that matters when you can't fucking block!
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In comment 16390648 Lambuth_Special said:
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And the labeling of the pro-Jones posters as shills, has again enforced in my mind that the Giants have really not thought this through if they actually intend to go with Jones as the intended starter.
There just doesn't seem to be much support for this at all, and worse, the existing support seems either tepid or based in fantasy.
Look at all of this and imagine the hostile and high-pressure environment Jones enters next year. Do you envision a big comeback season, or him being benched after 4 games?
The far majority of Giant fans are done with Jones. Far majority.
I'll add to that, is there any evidence of a QB in history figuring it all out in year 6 on the same team? I would think the odds are overwhelmingly against him ascending to top qb status (or even mediocre).
Ryan Tannehill on the Dolphins and Jake Plummer on the Arizona Cardinals are two quarterbacks that come to mind that got six starting seasons despite not being very productive and only getting to the playoffs once on their respective original teams. Much like Jones, Tannehill only one above-average season for QBR while on the Dolphins. Plummer was basically putrid on Arizona.
Both their respective 6th seasons as starters were again unimpressive. They were then both moved to new teams where they had career revivals. We all know about Tannehill on the Titans, but Plummer reached an unforseen level with Shannahan and the Broncos before crashing out.
The teams they left also improved and eventually landed in a better spot. After futzing around a bit at QB, the Cardinals landed on Kurt Warner and then Carson Palmer and had a decent stretch of seasons. The Dolphins with Tua aren't exactly a juggernaught, but they've been better since ditching Tannehill.
My point in this history lesson: People are mostly done with Jones and feel the whole project is moribund, except for a handful of fans and possibly the front office. With these vibes, I do not predict success for Jones' 6th season as the starter. I wouldn't be surprised at all however if he has a couple of decent seasons (albeit limited, like Tannehill and Plummer) on a new team, and I also wouldn't be surprised if the Giants got better so long as they landed a good new QB. It's a divorce that will likely be better for both parties, and the Giants should stop deluding themselves.
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In comment 16390582 Since1965 said:
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There is no way to accurately rate Jones (and Barkley for that matter) when they have both played behind terrible offensive lines. No one could have succeeded with the worst OL I have ever seen when Jones was playing this year. Banks hit the nail on the head. Fix the oline for once and get a TE who can block. And by fix, I don't mean banking on projects. The top priorty this offseason should be the OL before anything else at whatever cost.
Except, they both played behind a similar OL last year and everyone waqs gushing about them and the team.
Ezeudu, McKethan, Schmitz, Bredsen and Neal the same line as last year? Again, the worst I have seen since 1965. That's what Jones was dealing with. Jailbreaks. Deep threats, another QB...none of that matters when you can't fucking block!
I guess Drunkle Pat is here to take over for the kiddos because they all got called out as burners.
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In comment 16390666 Sean said:
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In comment 16390648 Lambuth_Special said:
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And the labeling of the pro-Jones posters as shills, has again enforced in my mind that the Giants have really not thought this through if they actually intend to go with Jones as the intended starter.
There just doesn't seem to be much support for this at all, and worse, the existing support seems either tepid or based in fantasy.
Look at all of this and imagine the hostile and high-pressure environment Jones enters next year. Do you envision a big comeback season, or him being benched after 4 games?
The far majority of Giant fans are done with Jones. Far majority.
I'll add to that, is there any evidence of a QB in history figuring it all out in year 6 on the same team? I would think the odds are overwhelmingly against him ascending to top qb status (or even mediocre).
Phil Simms but who's counting!!
Phill Simms missed two entire seasons due to injury, so his 6th season was basically his 4th season of playing. If we're using the Jones analogy with Simms, Simms did not follow his breakout 1984 season by playing the worst football of his life in the beginning of 1985, go 1-5, then get injured for the season.
Tannehill on the Dolphins and Plummer on the Cardinals are the only modern analogies for Jones, and there was no happy ending for them on their original teams.
Phill Simms missed two entire seasons due to injury
Correction: missed two seasons due to injury/Brunner benching.
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In comment 16390666 Sean said:
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In comment 16390648 Lambuth_Special said:
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And the labeling of the pro-Jones posters as shills, has again enforced in my mind that the Giants have really not thought this through if they actually intend to go with Jones as the intended starter.
There just doesn't seem to be much support for this at all, and worse, the existing support seems either tepid or based in fantasy.
Look at all of this and imagine the hostile and high-pressure environment Jones enters next year. Do you envision a big comeback season, or him being benched after 4 games?
The far majority of Giant fans are done with Jones. Far majority.
I'll add to that, is there any evidence of a QB in history figuring it all out in year 6 on the same team? I would think the odds are overwhelmingly against him ascending to top qb status (or even mediocre).
Phil Simms but who's counting!!
40 years and a half dozen CBAs ago (including the advent of unrestricted free agency, the rookie wage scale, and the salary cap) but who's counting!!
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In comment 16390666 Sean said:
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In comment 16390648 Lambuth_Special said:
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And the labeling of the pro-Jones posters as shills, has again enforced in my mind that the Giants have really not thought this through if they actually intend to go with Jones as the intended starter.
There just doesn't seem to be much support for this at all, and worse, the existing support seems either tepid or based in fantasy.
Look at all of this and imagine the hostile and high-pressure environment Jones enters next year. Do you envision a big comeback season, or him being benched after 4 games?
The far majority of Giant fans are done with Jones. Far majority.
I'll add to that, is there any evidence of a QB in history figuring it all out in year 6 on the same team? I would think the odds are overwhelmingly against him ascending to top qb status (or even mediocre).
Phil Simms but who's counting!!
Phil Simms threw for 4k yards in 1983 and won 9 games, his 5th year. And ascended upward from there (which may as well have been 6k yards today). So again, I ask is there anyone who figured it out in year 6 with the same team? Let's go back to the leather helmet days now.
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In comment 16390745 lax counsel said:
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In comment 16390666 Sean said:
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In comment 16390648 Lambuth_Special said:
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And the labeling of the pro-Jones posters as shills, has again enforced in my mind that the Giants have really not thought this through if they actually intend to go with Jones as the intended starter.
There just doesn't seem to be much support for this at all, and worse, the existing support seems either tepid or based in fantasy.
Look at all of this and imagine the hostile and high-pressure environment Jones enters next year. Do you envision a big comeback season, or him being benched after 4 games?
The far majority of Giant fans are done with Jones. Far majority.
I'll add to that, is there any evidence of a QB in history figuring it all out in year 6 on the same team? I would think the odds are overwhelmingly against him ascending to top qb status (or even mediocre).
Phil Simms but who's counting!!
Phil Simms threw for 4k yards in 1983 and won 9 games, his 5th year. And ascended upward from there (which may as well have been 6k yards today). So again, I ask is there anyone who figured it out in year 6 with the same team? Let's go back to the leather helmet days now.
Meant to say 1984 season, which was his 5th.
Simms, despite getting sacked to oblivion in his first 5 games in 1985, still won and continued his level from 1984, unlike Jones who significantly regressed and got injured.
Plummer is a pretty good comp. He had his playoff win early in his career, which was the Cardinals' first playoff win in a quite a while, so that bought him a lot of time. Plus, the Cardinals were run horribly in those days.
It could give the fake Trip Advisor or Amazon reviews a run for their money.
Can he throw in a small pretzel as well?
Gotta fire up those trial balloons
What bothers me about BBI is the stupidity of the statistical analysis being trotted out to supposedly prove his stinking. Anyone but a propagandist immediately recognizes the apples to oranges comparisons used.
Example: A bad o-line with an okay to go Andrew Thomas is not comparable to a bad o-line without him. A WR corps with Wandale Robinson playing his first games back from injury is not comparable to the corps a few weeks later. A WR corps with Hyatt breaking training camp is not comparable to Hyatt half way through the season. I could go on.
Would you even doubt it for a nanosecond if someone told you that there are those in the front office who use Simms as a reference in exactly this way?
Please excuse Snorkels-burner. The Phil Simms comment comes from the last season he truly understood the NFL game.
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A foolproof indicator of an argument completely out of gas, injecting a 40+ year old data point from an NFL that has long since ceased to exist.
Please excuse Snorkels-burner. The Phil Simms comment comes from the last season he truly understood the NFL game.
He got into horse racing not long after that.
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In comment 16390790 Greg from LI said:
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A foolproof indicator of an argument completely out of gas, injecting a 40+ year old data point from an NFL that has long since ceased to exist.
Please excuse Snorkels-burner. The Phil Simms comment comes from the last season he truly understood the NFL game.
He got into horse racing not long after that.
Tuesday must be a slow day at 1925 Giants Drive.
Too small of a sample size
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We do have a natural experiment to lean on, this year’s game v Miami. Everyone complains about the OL at the beginning of the season. Vs an ok Miami D, Jones got sacked on about 30% of dropbacks. Jones is injured, Tyrod comes in and the sack % drops to the single digits. The OL was bad but Jones significantly exacerbated the results with his ineptitude.
Too small of a sample size
How about five years? Would that be enough sample size for you losers?
Just keep digging your heels on Jones. The Giants love being right.
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We do have a natural experiment to lean on, this year’s game v Miami. Everyone complains about the OL at the beginning of the season. Vs an ok Miami D, Jones got sacked on about 30% of dropbacks. Jones is injured, Tyrod comes in and the sack % drops to the single digits. The OL was bad but Jones significantly exacerbated the results with his ineptitude.
Too small of a sample size
And yet it is the same size as the wildcard playoff game versus Minnesota. But that didn't stop this moronic organization from relying on that in making a colossal error in judgment with the Jones contract.
Look I have no doubt that DJ may have developed a case of Traumatic Stress Syndrome (post not involved because that indicates past tense for the stresser). I also have no doubt that he is at a cross roads because it is something he might not be able to put behind him. You have to trust your colleagues to do their jobs and you have to get over checking on them as the first thing you do.
I know this. He should have bought as much cred with 2022 season as Daboll. 2022 is only reason I would not have fired Daboll during first half of the season.
Just keep digging your heels on Jones. The Giants love being right.
X infinity.
Stubborn and stupid is a poor way to run a business.
2. Cure for Cancer
3. No more Daniel Jones threads.
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There is no way to accurately rate Jones (and Barkley for that matter) when they have both played behind terrible offensive lines. No one could have succeeded with the worst OL I have ever seen when Jones was playing this year. Banks hit the nail on the head. Fix the oline for once and get a TE who can block. And by fix, I don't mean banking on projects. The top priorty this offseason should be the OL before anything else at whatever cost.
Except, they both played behind a similar OL last year and everyone waqs gushing about them and the team.
Did the OL regress instead of DJ and SB??
"Is there any evidence of a QB in history figuring it all out in year 6 on the same team?"
He asked and so I answered. Phil Simms.
And of course immediately get attacked from all sides.
"Is there any evidence of a QB in history figuring it all out in year 6 on the same team?"
He asked and so I answered. Phil Simms.
And of course immediately get attacked from all sides.
Because you were blatantly wrong.
What bothers me about BBI is the stupidity of the statistical analysis being trotted out to supposedly prove his stinking. Anyone but a propagandist immediately recognizes the apples to oranges comparisons used.
Example: A bad o-line with an okay to go Andrew Thomas is not comparable to a bad o-line without him. A WR corps with Wandale Robinson playing his first games back from injury is not comparable to the corps a few weeks later. A WR corps with Hyatt breaking training camp is not comparable to Hyatt half way through the season. I could go on.
Very sensible post.
Exactly.
What bothers me about BBI is the stupidity of the statistical analysis being trotted out to supposedly prove his stinking. Anyone but a propagandist immediately recognizes the apples to oranges comparisons used.
Example: A bad o-line with an okay to go Andrew Thomas is not comparable to a bad o-line without him. A WR corps with Wandale Robinson playing his first games back from injury is not comparable to the corps a few weeks later. A WR corps with Hyatt breaking training camp is not comparable to Hyatt half way through the season. I could go on.
Bob, your post is a logical fallacy wrapped in deception. I do love the understatement where you acknowledge "I doubt he is going to HOF". That's a joke, right? Good one, truly.
But then you dismiss every statistical argument against Jones with a variation of the No True Scotsman fallacy. The statistical arguments are real. In 2022, Jones' *good season*, he was not a good passer. he led the league for passes behind the LOS and was very low in air yards and Y/A. Also he didn't produce a lot of passing TDs. Even with the benefit of his admittedly good QB rushing ability, he cannot parlay it into decent passing numbers. and this season they opened up the offense with far more vertical concepts and Jones fell on his face. He can't do it. He was so bad a rookie corner called him out. This is black and white. The eye test says he is a bad passer and the numbers back it up. And it is disingenuous to say there is no truth to the statistical claims against Jones.
"Is there any evidence of a QB in history figuring it all out in year 6 on the same team?"
He asked and so I answered. Phil Simms.
And of course immediately get attacked from all sides.
Because you were blatantly wrong.
WTF do you mean I was wrong. In fact that's about a blatant falsehood that's ever been said on this site. Phil Simms was drafted in 1979, did almost nothing in his first 5 years with the Giants (and for those that can't count 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983) which included being benched for Scott Brunner, but in 1984 blossomed as a legit NFL starter in his 6th year. Three years later the Giants won a Super Bowl. You can look it up.
And the reason I got attacked is it blows a huge hole in your narrative!!
Jones played 1.25 games with AT this year. 2.25 with SB. 2022 they played together every game.
The RB production for SEA, Miami and SF might be a franchise record for poor RB production.
To Bob’s point, when posters point out fair circumstances impacting Jones or any QB doesn’t make you a Jones lover. Not acknowledging them makes you not really understanding the QB position and impact of variables imv.
"Is there any evidence of a QB in history figuring it all out in year 6 on the same team?"
He asked and so I answered. Phil Simms.
Not only were you correct, but Simms also had a serious injury record for the first few years of his career then was almost injury free.
And of course immediately get attacked from all sides.
Do you people realize what you're saying?
"Is there any evidence of a QB in history figuring it all out in year 6 on the same team?"
He asked and so I answered. Phil Simms.
And of course immediately get attacked from all sides.
If you want to pat yourself on your back, enjoy the experience.
The more precise question would have kept the time frame to the modern game.
Regardless, the overarching point is that it's not something worth counting on to give your lottery pick QB over a half decade to demonstrate he's a franchise QB.
In a moment of honesty, you would likely agree. But, and I'll be kind, that requires reason over emotion.
Jones played 1.25 games with AT this year. 2.25 with SB. 2022 they played together every game.
The RB production for SEA, Miami and SF might be a franchise record for poor RB production.
To Bob’s point, when posters point out fair circumstances impacting Jones or any QB doesn’t make you a Jones lover. Not acknowledging them makes you not really understanding the QB position and impact of variables imv.
Why do you guys keep acting like the Jones evaluation is completely based on this season alone? He’s been in the league 5 seasons. He’s had 3 piss poor seasons, 1 mediocre season (rookie year) and 1 decent year that was largely successful because of his rushing stats, more so than his passing ability.
Stop acting like this is some small sample size of ineffectiveness. The fact is, it’s a large sample size. For a guy making over $40M per season. Enough of the damn excuses
If you want to pat yourself on your back, enjoy the experience.
The more precise question would have kept the time frame to the modern game.
Regardless, the overarching point is that it's not something worth counting on to give your lottery pick QB over a half decade to demonstrate he's a franchise QB.
In a moment of honesty, you would likely agree. But, and I'll be kind, that requires reason over emotion.
I suppose, but he didn't ask the more precise question. Don't blame me I answered the question he asked.
And trust me, behind this witty devishly clever persona is a football guy and Giants fan who cares about one thing and one thing alone and that's winning. Last thing in the world I would do is keep a guy around who wasn't performing because of what somebody else did 50 years ago. I also how don't understand the whole concept (which I think you guys have just made up as your latest strawman) of asking how many chances do Jones or any player for that matter get.
In the NFL nobody just gets chances. You play because you're the best guy they have at the position. I am a Jones supporter because I think, given all the options, he gives the Giants the best chance to win in the immediate future. Period. And it seems pretty clear that's the way Schoen, Daboll and the rest of the Giants' brain trust - you know highly competitive professional football people whose jobs are on the line if they don't win - appear to feel the same way.
I can understand people who don't agree. its a free country, although it would be nice if somewhere in the dialogue that at least someone among those who don't agree put forward a rationale alternative plan. So far its been crickets otehr than we gotta get rid of Jones althougg there isn't actually a realistic chance in hell that that is going to happen any time soon.
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"Is there any evidence of a QB in history figuring it all out in year 6 on the same team?"
He asked and so I answered. Phil Simms.
And of course immediately get attacked from all sides.
Because you were blatantly wrong.
WTF do you mean I was wrong. In fact that's about a blatant falsehood that's ever been said on this site. Phil Simms was drafted in 1979, did almost nothing in his first 5 years with the Giants (and for those that can't count 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983) which included being benched for Scott Brunner, but in 1984 blossomed as a legit NFL starter in his 6th year. Three years later the Giants won a Super Bowl. You can look it up.
And the reason I got attacked is it blows a huge hole in your narrative!!
Please fact check yourself, 1984 was his 5th season playing football in this league. Pro football reference is a great and easy way to look things up. He played four full seasons of football prior to 1984, that makes 1984 his 5th season of football. Let me know if you need a screenshot of it.
I can understand people who don't agree. its a free country, although it would be nice if somewhere in the dialogue that at least someone among those who don't agree put forward a rationale alternative plan. So far its been crickets otehr than we gotta get rid of Jones althougg there isn't actually a realistic chance in hell that that is going to happen any time soon.
I have given you a plan to pivot away from Jones. You didn't like it because it would require Schoen to put his big boy GM pants on and make a big splash deal to get into the one of the top three spots in this draft. And to piggyback christian's thread, I would then cut Jones after June 1.
You see Jones as a special talent. Inexplicably.
I see Jones as one of those fungible QBs that floats in the bottom third of current NFL QBs. And it really isn't going to be difficult to replace him at all.
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I can understand people who don't agree. its a free country, although it would be nice if somewhere in the dialogue that at least someone among those who don't agree put forward a rationale alternative plan. So far its been crickets otehr than we gotta get rid of Jones althougg there isn't actually a realistic chance in hell that that is going to happen any time soon.
I have given you a plan to pivot away from Jones. You didn't like it because it would require Schoen to put his big boy GM pants on and make a big splash deal to get into the one of the top three spots in this draft. And to piggyback christian's thread, I would then cut Jones after June 1.
You see Jones as a special talent. Inexplicably.
I see Jones as one of those fungible QBs that floats in the bottom third of current NFL QBs. And it really isn't going to be difficult to replace him at all.
C'mon bw; I said realistic plan. You know damn well that none of Chicago, Wash and New England are trading out of the top three. None! And if that's your plan you got nothing. I rest my case!
Jones played 1.25 games with AT this year. 2.25 with SB. 2022 they played together every game.
The RB production for SEA, Miami and SF might be a franchise record for poor RB production.
To Bob’s point, when posters point out fair circumstances impacting Jones or any QB doesn’t make you a Jones lover. Not acknowledging them makes you not really understanding the QB position and impact of variables imv.
Then he isn’t worth what we are paying him.
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In comment 16390981 Snorkels said:
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I can understand people who don't agree. its a free country, although it would be nice if somewhere in the dialogue that at least someone among those who don't agree put forward a rationale alternative plan. So far its been crickets otehr than we gotta get rid of Jones althougg there isn't actually a realistic chance in hell that that is going to happen any time soon.
I have given you a plan to pivot away from Jones. You didn't like it because it would require Schoen to put his big boy GM pants on and make a big splash deal to get into the one of the top three spots in this draft. And to piggyback christian's thread, I would then cut Jones after June 1.
You see Jones as a special talent. Inexplicably.
I see Jones as one of those fungible QBs that floats in the bottom third of current NFL QBs. And it really isn't going to be difficult to replace him at all.
C'mon bw; I said realistic plan. You know damn well that none of Chicago, Wash and New England are trading out of the top three. None! And if that's your plan you got nothing. I rest my case!
Make CHI an offer they can't refuse. If not, then the NYG can go just go with Taylor & DeVito in 2024. It has shown to be no worse and, in many instances better, than having Jones under center anyway.
And we can just wait until 2025 to see if they can draft a top QB then. Waiting is the penalty for making yesterday's bad decision and not willing to fix it as soon as possible.
But since you rested your case already, we won't be seeing you around here any longer.
C'mon bw; I said realistic plan. You know damn well that none of Chicago, Wash and New England are trading out of the top three. None! And if that's your plan you got nothing. I rest my case!
Try using your imagination. It could certainly be executed with the right GM.
Or do this. Sign Minshew. Draft JJMac, Nix, Penix, Pratt on day two. Keep DeVito.
Minshew just led the no-name Colts to the playoffs.
No matter how many of you howl at the moon until the cows come home the die has been cast the Giants are going with Jones next fall once he's healthy; they'll be signing a vet as insurance and will be drafting a QB somewhere as a developmental guy.
That means you are either a Giants fan or an idealogue who would rather be right than win games. Time to step up!
No matter how many of you howl at the moon until the cows come home the die has been cast the Giants are going with Jones next fall once he's healthy; they'll be signing a vet as insurance and will be drafting a QB somewhere as a developmental guy.
That means you are either a Giants fan or an idealogue who would rather be right than win games. Time to step up!
Just because he may not be going anywhere doesn't mean he needs to get on the field, or even worse, get on the field and play bad and/or get hurt.
Amortize his stupid-ass contract down in 2024 and cut him the following offseason.
I thought you rested your case though?
HE IS 10 PLUS GAMES UNDER .500 AS A STARTER!
A fucking cult.
No matter how many of you howl at the moon until the cows come home the die has been cast the Giants are going with Jones next fall once he's healthy; they'll be signing a vet as insurance and will be drafting a QB somewhere as a developmental guy.
That means you are either a Giants fan or an idealogue who would rather be right than win games. Time to step up!
This is precious. Many of us WANT to win games. That is the whole point! You on the other hand are content being completely irrelevant with a ceiling of being mediocre at a best because you think Jines is a swell guy. You’d rather lose with Jones than win without him.
See, we can all play this stupid ass game…
I can't believe I am asking but, why not? Deals at the top of the draft happen all the time. All you need is GM who isn't a moron and keeps his cell-phone on.
But no answer because you rested your case would be just as good.
This organization is a complete joke.
'We're back!'-John Mara, 1/15/23.
That means you are either a Giants fan or an idealogue who would rather be right than win games. Time to step up!
The fans want to win games. The ideologues are in the building making the decisions.
I can name ten BBIers I'd rather see making decisions than the Maras.
Your rant has been that Jones gives the Giants the best chance to win.
Win what?
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In comment 16390582 Since1965 said:
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There is no way to accurately rate Jones (and Barkley for that matter) when they have both played behind terrible offensive lines. No one could have succeeded with the worst OL I have ever seen when Jones was playing this year. Banks hit the nail on the head. Fix the oline for once and get a TE who can block. And by fix, I don't mean banking on projects. The top priorty this offseason should be the OL before anything else at whatever cost.
Except, they both played behind a similar OL last year and everyone waqs gushing about them and the team.
Did the OL regress instead of DJ and SB??
No matter how many of you howl at the moon until the cows come home the die has been cast the Giants are going with Jones next fall once he's healthy; they'll be signing a vet as insurance and will be drafting a QB somewhere as a developmental guy.
That means you are either a Giants fan or an idealogue who would rather be right than win games. Time to step up!
I think it actually means that you and your big brother are probably going to be buying us all a medium Pepsi by Thanksgiving.
Think about this. Daniel Jones was drafted in 2019. At the time, Matt Patricia was the Lions head coach and it was two years BEFORE Dan Campbell was hired. Dan Campbell reached the NFC championship in year three as Lions head coach. All this time the Giants have been spinning their wheels with Jones and have not drafted a QB since.
But, keep telling us there are no better options in year six. We are just wasting years.
I think the organization likes Jones and wants him to succeed but I'm detecting a vibe of "you made us look like idiots this past season, now go out there and redeem us or else!" You combine this with a fanbase that is showing mix of apathy and hostility, and I don't think this environment is going to be condusive to success for him or the team. Honestly, the best scenario I see for Jones himself is getting a chance to sit for a year and recover, get some distance from being quaterback of the New York Giants, and then go sign with the Panthers or some other team and get a fresh start. Given the state of NFL QB'ing and injuries, he'll find himself back on the field in no time.
Instead, he's going to be his usual workout warrior self, and if he is the unquestioned starter, both Daboll and the organization are going to wound so tight over their decision to do this that I can't see it going well.
No matter how many of you howl at the moon until the cows come home the die has been cast the Giants are going with Jones next fall once he's healthy; they'll be signing a vet as insurance and will be drafting a QB somewhere as a developmental guy.
That means you are either a Giants fan or an idealogue who would rather be right than win games. Time to step up!
The ones who would rather be right than win are those still backing Jones
No matter how many of you howl at the moon until the cows come home the die has been cast the Giants are going with Jones next fall once he's healthy; they'll be signing a vet as insurance and will be drafting a QB somewhere as a developmental guy.
That means you are either a Giants fan or an idealogue who would rather be right than win games. Time to step up!
“How do you do, fellow kids?”
Give Jones a chance next year and have another young QB ready to step in. Just not one that we had to give up five prime draft picks for, and with no assurance that we won’t take another Bryce or Ryan.
As an aging Giant fan who remembers when Yelberton Abraham Tittle threw seven TD passes against the Skins at age 36, it kills me that losing that gamble would extend the team’s rebuilding phase for two more years.
You can tell that a lot of the people here were not around during the Parcells era. All everyone talks about is offense. Remember when “Defense Wins Championships?” We have five starters on defense, who pass the test of making almost any other teams, roster, and even starting. That assumes we keep McKinney, and we drop Jackson, as much for his many missed games as for his talent. I believe Eric wrote that he drew only one pass interference call all season and only three flags in total. He will play somewhere.
I would be happy to see the team finish off its defense by adding a couple of past rushers. The past rush is as important to the defense as the quarterback is to the offense. A good defense helps the offense by giving them better field position and by not having to play from behind. With the draft picks that we have completing the past rush is feasible.
Not meaning to offend anyone, but anyone who thinks we should use number six on a wide receiver knows absolutely nothing about how to build a good football team. Offensive line gives up the second most sacks in history, and a defensive line that ranked 28th in sacks demand the attention. I don’t see how anyone could believe that it would be a good draft pick after our experiences with OBJ and Barkley.
The End.
He definitely had a say in getting Jones this contract. The first question the GM asks the coach is can we win with the QB. If that answer was no there is no contract
Now saying that, he can believe in Jones all he wants but the reality is he has a QB who has had 3 major injuries ending seasons with 2 neck injuries. Odds say he will not be healthy long term. You need a backup plan that is not a backup who is also injury prone
This team has also showed they absolutely can’t win without Barkley
****
Yeah … swing and a miss. Really super use of strawmen, condescension and anachronisms though. You almost had me.
He definitely had a say in getting Jones this contract. The first question the GM asks the coach is can we win with the QB. If that answer was no there is no contract
Now saying that, he can believe in Jones all he wants but the reality is he has a QB who has had 3 major injuries ending seasons with 2 neck injuries. Odds say he will not be healthy long term. You need a backup plan that is not a backup who is also injury prone
This team has also showed they absolutely can’t win without Barkley
If a team can’t possibly win without their starting RB it means the QB sucks. There is no reason whatsoever a freakin RB should have that much influence on winning games if you have the right QB. Daniel Jones is the only QB in the league that gets excuses for his RB not playing. It’s ludicrous. Wake up.
He definitely had a say in getting Jones this contract. The first question the GM asks the coach is can we win with the QB. If that answer was no there is no contract
Now saying that, he can believe in Jones all he wants but the reality is he has a QB who has had 3 major injuries ending seasons with 2 neck injuries. Odds say he will not be healthy long term. You need a backup plan that is not a backup who is also injury prone
This team has also showed they absolutely can’t win without Barkley
10-11-1 is a shitty record.
Maybe they just need someone to get them the ball.
And under Daboll, Tyrod Taylor and DeVito were 5-6 last season.
Not much difference, huh?
"Weak QB draft"
"Too many assets to trade up"
"Jones bounced back and showed his toughness"
"Arrow is pointing up, let's get some more weapons"
You know, all that shit.
"Weak QB draft"
"Too many assets to trade up"
"Jones bounced back and showed his toughness"
"Arrow is pointing up, let's get some more weapons"
You know, all that shit.
Exactly
For what they see and been through, a healthy Barkley and Jones gets you to the playoffs.
They clearly thought enough to give him the contract. Is the 5 1/2 games this year enough to change that - while knowing they had no OL at the start, no WR and no Barkley for 3 games
Classic framing technique- DJ haters, doubters, deniers … I prefer “DJ realists.”
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11:08 am : link : reply
Speaks volumes about segments of this fan base that cite a 10-11 record with Jones to prop him up. Just laughable.
I'm convinced Giants fans don't watch other games.
The season they all point to as successful was 15 TDs through the air, beating terrible defenses to end the season/start the playoffs, and getting embarrassed against top Tier NFC team in the playoffs.
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SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11:08 am : link : reply
Speaks volumes about segments of this fan base that cite a 10-11 record with Jones to prop him up. Just laughable.
I'm convinced Giants fans don't watch other games.
The season they all point to as successful was 15 TDs through the air, beating terrible defenses to end the season/start the playoffs, and getting embarrassed against top Tier NFC team in the playoffs.