This requires a bit of nastiness uncommon to the Giants. Some background. Let's say they land the QB of their wishes in the draft.
- The utility of the June 1 designation keeps the unaccounted for bonus dollars in 2025, meaning his 2024 cap hit is unchanged at 47.1M
- The normal downside of a June 1 cut is you can't access that space until June, but in this case there is no change, and more importantly Jones won't pass a physical before
- He'd count as 22.2M in dead money on 2025
- The Giants would save 78M in cap space on 2024 and 2025
How this benefits the Giants? Jones would be off the roster and this avoids any potential controversy. It also ensures Jones isn't injured and collects on his injury guarantee.
It would definitely suck for him, but the silver lining is he'd get a lump sum of 35.5M.
Check that, make that less than zero, unfortunately.
Both have been too injured and inconsistent. The upside is no longer there. It's over.
If they don't draft a QB early, Jones is the presumptive starter.
Jones is certainly not passing a physical in June, more like August at the earliest.
So the question is are they cold enough to drop him in the weeks leading up to the season.
I'd love it. It would be best for all parties imo. I could see Jones in the NFC South. The Giants could then go with a Minshew-Nix QB grouping, or something along those lines.
Both parties move on. I'd hope Barkley would be elsewhere as well. It allows NYG to finally turn the page on the Jones/Barklry era.
The Giants wouldn't designate him a cut beforehand, they would cut him at some point after June when he passed a physical and the post June 1 cut cap implications would apply. If he can pass a physical, there's no grievance.
#3 Schoen and Daboll want another crack at him
Therefore, short of committing an absolute atrocity brought before the Hague, no he would not be cut. Better chance he gets traded which has a 0.001% chance of happening.
There are 3 types of cuts.
1 - Pre June 1 - which would accelerate all outstanding guaranteed or amortized dollars to accelerate
2 - Post June 1 designation - future guarantees and outstanding dollars outside of this year accelerate to next year, but the player is free to sign elsewhere
3 - Post June 1 - all of the above are true, except the player is on your roster until you cut him
Maybe you missed the OP, I am asking *If* they draft their dream QB, would they do this.
The post June 1 cut would cost no more or no less.
ding ding ding
I mean for all the seriousness you guys seem to have I am surprised your not floating a way for the Giants to try and trade Jones for Mahomes or Josh Allen.
Listen to Schoen. Jones ain't going anywhere next year. He's the starter when he's healthy. And in the real world he's going to be the starter until something better comes along. Sheesh!
See the cord, cut the cord.
Unfortunately, as others have noted, this is very likely fantasy.
I land on two reasons:
1. I actually think Schoen is legitimately pro-Jones.
2. Mara would likely be the firewall to prevent this.
Brand new handle, same old reading comprehension.
Reacquaint yourself with the little box at the top of the thread with question, Snablats.
Didn't read the thread start, now did we?
Not too sharp, huh?
A real Dallas Cowboy fan trolling the site should love Jones and want him to stay a Giant in perpetuity.
The fact they have an elite LT and they still suck shows just how bad the coaching and rest of the players are.
DJ regressed last year, and the most obvious reason why is the Offensive Line was at a "non-compete" level.
So to answer the question - no, he will not be a post June 1 cut. Like any large corporation, only this far out from a major strategic decision, they will stay the course and try to improve the situation around it.
At this point, Jones guarantees are what they are and while I understand the 2025 cap hit/guarantee for injury being a risk factor, I don't see them just cutting Jones and because he can't really be traded until he clears a physical until late in summer.
There is no other best-case scenario.
Even if the Giants were to draft a QB in the first round, you would want Jones to play well so that he can re-establish value so that he can be traded.
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He is on the team this year. Whether he starts or whether they draft a QB early is the only question.
Maybe you missed the OP, I am asking *If* they draft their dream QB, would they do this.
The post June 1 cut would cost no more or no less.
There is no other best-case scenario.
Even if the Giants were to draft a QB in the first round, you would want Jones to play well so that he can re-establish value so that he can be traded.
No team is trading for Jones. People need to stop with this.
Maybe you missed the OP, I am asking *If* they draft their dream QB, would they do this.
The post June 1 cut would cost no more or no less.
I understand the question and my answer remains. It doesn't matter if they draft a QB or not. They aren't eating $50M for a critical roster spot unfilled, regardless of his playing status.
What's the value of keeping Jones if they've already replaced him?
If he plays and gets injured, it risks triggering a 23M injury guarantee in 2025.
If he doesn't play, you've shelved him and prevented him from catching on with another team.
The fact they have an elite LT and they still suck shows just how bad the coaching and rest of the players are.
DJ regressed last year, and the most obvious reason why is the Offensive Line was at a "non-compete" level.
So to answer the question - no, he will not be a post June 1 cut. Like any large corporation, only this far out from a major strategic decision, they will stay the course and try to improve the situation around it.
So you missed the beginning of the thread too?
I mean for all the seriousness you guys seem to have I am surprised your not floating a way for the Giants to try and trade Jones for Mahomes or Josh Allen.
Listen to Schoen. Jones ain't going anywhere next year. He's the starter when he's healthy. And in the real world he's going to be the starter until something better comes along. Sheesh!
Us?
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In comment 16390618 Matt M. said:
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He is on the team this year. Whether he starts or whether they draft a QB early is the only question.
Maybe you missed the OP, I am asking *If* they draft their dream QB, would they do this.
The post June 1 cut would cost no more or no less.
I understand the question and my answer remains. It doesn't matter if they draft a QB or not. They aren't eating $50M for a critical roster spot unfilled, regardless of his playing status.
The 2024 cap hit is a sunk cost. It's going to be eaten regardless.
So DeVito is going to be the starter?
Let me re-state the question, if the Giants pick Jones's replacement, will they cut him after he passes a physical?
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In comment 16390626 christian said:
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In comment 16390618 Matt M. said:
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He is on the team this year. Whether he starts or whether they draft a QB early is the only question.
Maybe you missed the OP, I am asking *If* they draft their dream QB, would they do this.
The post June 1 cut would cost no more or no less.
I understand the question and my answer remains. It doesn't matter if they draft a QB or not. They aren't eating $50M for a critical roster spot unfilled, regardless of his playing status.
The 2024 cap hit is a sunk cost. It's going to be eaten regardless.
FA and the draft already happened?
How about you hold your horses and stop speaking in absolutes.
You're really struggling how this works?
Maybe start a thread and ask the question to the site.
Just wait. Year 7 & 8 are when qb really start to shine.
To think otherwise is foolish.
The Giants have an investment in Jones, like it or not.
Jones can rehabilitate his value. If he plays as he did in 2022. Then the Giants have options.
If Jones is outplayed by a rookie QB, then Jones will be the backup. The Giants will not drop him.
This disdain for Jones is not rational.
You do not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Shit doesn't work the way some of you want to believe.
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In comment 16390667 Matt M. said:
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In comment 16390626 christian said:
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In comment 16390618 Matt M. said:
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He is on the team this year. Whether he starts or whether they draft a QB early is the only question.
Maybe you missed the OP, I am asking *If* they draft their dream QB, would they do this.
The post June 1 cut would cost no more or no less.
I understand the question and my answer remains. It doesn't matter if they draft a QB or not. They aren't eating $50M for a critical roster spot unfilled, regardless of his playing status.
The 2024 cap hit is a sunk cost. It's going to be eaten regardless.
IF he's on the roster, they aren't "eating it". If he isn't they still need to fill a roster spot already committed to $50M for him.
I don't doubt that your POV is probably shared by those inside the front office, but it's logically pretty flimsy.
The only thing they'd be eating is the replacement cost for an open roster spot, which would be near league minimum.
The cost for DJ, in this scenario, is the same whether he's on the roster or not, so there does not need to be a financial component to the decision unless one wanted to use that as an excuse to avoid the decision altogether.
On top of that, as Christian has reminded the thread, Jones's 2025 injury guarantee is going to be looming, especially if the Giants intend to pull the ripcord on the DJ82 contract.
If that factors into their decision-making (it should), then you're advocating the waste of a roster spot for a player that you had already replaced in the lineup (one of the premises of the hypothetical scenario) and would actively be hoping to not use at any point for fear of injury.
In that scenario, which is what we're discussing, you're treating the $47M the same, either way. The question is simply whether you can think of a better use for the roster spot.
Get him outta here asap!
To think otherwise is foolish.
The Giants have an investment in Jones, like it or not.
Jones can rehabilitate his value. If he plays as he did in 2022. Then the Giants have options.
If Jones is outplayed by a rookie QB, then Jones will be the backup. The Giants will not drop him.
This disdain for Jones is not rational.
You do not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Jones IS the bathwater.
Let me re-state the question, if the Giants pick Jones's replacement, will they cut him after he passes a physical?
Only a year removed from a playoff win. They would be very happy for Jones to win the job and catch some magic while the rookie develops. If it is a veteran brought in to compete, Jones would not get cut unless he loses the competition.
Many here are starting with the premise that Jones sucks.
Too subjective, many intelligent people with takes that fall flat before they begin.
Very childish at BBI lately.
If I was a Cowboys fan I'd be begging the Giants to keep Jones for another 10 years.
Wow. Just wow.
Just wait. Year 7 & 8 are when qb really start to shine.
Some of you guys just love to parrot this same line over and over because it's a quick, easy smart ass comment/salvo at the fans more in the middle on things. Truth is it ignores the real nuance to the discussion. And as such, it just renders the person who says it over and over as someone who can't see the nuance on things.
Jones had ONE year to show this new staff he could play. One. That came in 2022. What happened in 2019, as halfway decent for a rookie as it was, didn't matter. Same with 2020 even if it was a struggle. Same with 21 even if it was a struggle and many insightful people recognize that DJ was the only player on offense worth watching in 2021 but I digress. New staff in 22. Jones had one one year to prove he belonged. And he did prove it. You can disagree but you'd be spitting in the face of what really happened.
Carry on. Sorry for injecting the details into this. As they say, that's where the devil lies.
The Giants aren't cutting Jones in June.
Wow. Just wow.
You're another one. QB might in fact be a priority but once again we cannot see the nuance in this. What if there is no QB available at 6? Do you expect Schoen to craft a QB in his lab? Would you rather see him reach for a QB that can be drafted in round2?
Wait it out. IF the Giants draft a kid high or even in round 2 they can rehab Jones, let him come back when ready and if or when he falls flat they can put the rookie in. And if DJ plays well, indulge me for a second, you have a likely good season on your hands and a possible tradeable asset heading into the 24-25 off-season.
No one is saying not to draft a QB. Keeping Jones (the only real sensible move) doesn't preclude them from doing that.
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For the Giants, especially if they draft QB early in the draft. But he has to get healthy first, before we can cut him.
If they don't draft a QB early, Jones is the presumptive starter.
Jones is certainly not passing a physical in June, more like August at the earliest.
So the question is are they cold enough to drop him in the weeks leading up to the season.
Doesnt that trigger his injury clause?
Jones is certainly not passing a physical in June, more like August at the earliest.
So the question is are they cold enough to drop him in the weeks leading up to the season.
Doesnt that trigger his injury clause?
No, if Jones can pass a physical and is cleared to play, they can cut him at any time, without fear.
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In comment 16390677 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 16390667 Matt M. said:
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In comment 16390626 christian said:
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In comment 16390618 Matt M. said:
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He is on the team this year. Whether he starts or whether they draft a QB early is the only question.
Maybe you missed the OP, I am asking *If* they draft their dream QB, would they do this.
The post June 1 cut would cost no more or no less.
I understand the question and my answer remains. It doesn't matter if they draft a QB or not. They aren't eating $50M for a critical roster spot unfilled, regardless of his playing status.
The 2024 cap hit is a sunk cost. It's going to be eaten regardless.
IF he's on the roster, they aren't "eating it". If he isn't they still need to fill a roster spot already committed to $50M for him.
I don't doubt that your POV is probably shared by those inside the front office, but it's logically pretty flimsy.
The only thing they'd be eating is the replacement cost for an open roster spot, which would be near league minimum.
The cost for DJ, in this scenario, is the same whether he's on the roster or not, so there does not need to be a financial component to the decision unless one wanted to use that as an excuse to avoid the decision altogether.
On top of that, as Christian has reminded the thread, Jones's 2025 injury guarantee is going to be looming, especially if the Giants intend to pull the ripcord on the DJ82 contract.
If that factors into their decision-making (it should), then you're advocating the waste of a roster spot for a player that you had already replaced in the lineup (one of the premises of the hypothetical scenario) and would actively be hoping to not use at any point for fear of injury.
In that scenario, which is what we're discussing, you're treating the $47M the same, either way. The question is simply whether you can think of a better use for the roster spot.
Do I think it will happen? Not a chance. None. Zero. Zero point zero. The whole FO and ownership would be admitting they are idiots if they cut Jones a little more than a year after signing him to the monstrous contract. "Saving face" shouldn't matter, but I'm afraid in this case it very much does. People frequently don't do the right thing when doing so is tantamount to admitting they are stupid.
What we have to hope is that Jones gets and stays healthy, and then plays well enough so that we can trade him in about a year. Getting a possible day three pick isn't worth the risk of him getting injured and the Giants having to pay him an extra $23M, but it's the best we can hope for given that he won't be cut this year.
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Jones is certainly not passing a physical in June, more like August at the earliest.
So the question is are they cold enough to drop him in the weeks leading up to the season.
Doesnt that trigger his injury clause?
No, if Jones can pass a physical and is cleared to play, they can cut him at any time, without fear.
Right, what I am not following is if he cant pass a physical until August, how can we cut him before that?
They have an existing 11M cap charge consisting of his original signing bonus and restructure bonus.
In the scenario where they keep him, and stash him out of fear, he takes up a roster spot that could go to a productive player.
Cutting him and signing a different player could cost as little as 800K in incremental cap charge.
Right, what I am not following is if he cant pass a physical until August, how can we cut him before that?
They can't. A post June 1 just means he's cut any time after June 1, and certain cap implications apply.
If he's cut in August the post June 1 rules apply.
Unlike you, "these people" actually want to see the team improve.
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No, if Jones can pass a physical and is cleared to play, they can cut him at any time, without fear.
Right, what I am not following is if he cant pass a physical until August, how can we cut him before that?
They can't. A post June 1 just means he's cut any time after June 1, and certain cap implications apply.
If he's cut in August the post June 1 rules apply.
Oh gotcha. I was misunderstanding what you were suggesting. Thanks
Isn't that a *more* shitty thing to do to Jones?
If anyone took him for zero but would honor the injury guarantee, we would be ahead of the game.
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‘QB isn’t top priority.’
Wow. Just wow.
You're another one. QB might in fact be a priority but once again we cannot see the nuance in this. What if there is no QB available at 6? Do you expect Schoen to craft a QB in his lab? Would you rather see him reach for a QB that can be drafted in round2?
Wait it out. IF the Giants draft a kid high or even in round 2 they can rehab Jones, let him come back when ready and if or when he falls flat they can put the rookie in. And if DJ plays well, indulge me for a second, you have a likely good season on your hands and a possible tradeable asset heading into the 24-25 off-season.
No one is saying not to draft a QB. Keeping Jones (the only real sensible move) doesn't preclude them from doing that.
I shouldn't have said "you're another one" as that's unfair--you just hate jones and want to move on at all costs. Different animal lol. Doesn't mean you don't see the grey area or nuance in this.
Whatever happens I just want to win. Fix the trenches and make the D great. GO from there. Hope they can find a QB early.
I don't think anyone is suggesting anything close to that. What's this in response to?
Williams/Daniels/Maye/Bo Nix/Michael Penix
Tyrod Taylor
Michael Pratt/Spencer Rattler/Joe Milton
This can happen. There is nothing outlandish about it.
It's ok to want good things!
Although he will also probably fail to connect with holder and have turnovers .
The off season is once again the season of hope for me.
I can enjoy the possibility of a 2024 Giants season without Barkley and Jones.until 2/20 the soonest or all the way until 3/5 if they drag out whether or not to franchise Barkley.
This is what they HAVE to do. Sadly, as BW pointed out they won’t, largely because John makes too many decisions with his heart. Jones’ injury history AND the injury guarantee “should” be enough for him to see the light, but I will be shocked if it does.
Therefore, short of committing an absolute atrocity brought before the Hague, no he would not be cut.
Americans cannot be brought to The Hague.
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here this off-season and draft, I could see the Giants PUP him for awhile and then bring him back as a backup for whatever games are left (hoping to keep him off the field- maybe even keep him inactive) until seasons end. They could then trade or release him as needed.
Isn't that a *more* shitty thing to do to Jones?
I am saying they can't cut until he passes a physical so PUP would be a starting place. From there the fear of injury gets really scary for the future so holding him out may be the best case.
Williams/Daniels/Maye/Bo Nix/Michael Penix
Tyrod Taylor
Michael Pratt/Spencer Rattler/Joe Milton
This can happen. There is nothing outlandish about it.
It's ok to want good things!
The idea of double dipping with both a 2nd QB and a lower round pick like Milton is a good idea. Hope Schoen is considering it.
Isn't that a *more* shitty thing to do to Jones?
I am saying they can't cut until he passes a physical so PUP would be a starting place. From there the fear of injury gets really scary for the future so holding him out may be the best case.
I agree and understand about being PUP.
What I'm saying is when he passes his physical, it's shittier to stash him and not let him play vs. cutting him and letting him try and catch on somewhere.
The other minor benefit with cutting him, the Giants might get a cap credit if he has offset language in his deal.
As I said, the best we can hope for is that Jones stays healthy and has a few good moments when he does play next season, because that would make him easier to trade a year from now. I'd like to at least get a draft pick for that idiotic contract.
Focus on the other missing parts...
Williams/Daniels/Maye/Bo Nix/Michael Penix
Tyrod Taylor
Michael Pratt/Spencer Rattler/Joe Milton
This can happen. There is nothing outlandish about it.
It's ok to want good things!
I dont disagree with you, but assuming the top 3 are gone, how high are you willing to draft at the 2nd tier?
Also when does the 2nd QB get picked?
ALSO, at what salary are paying Taylor despite drafting two other QBs?
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Imagine a world where the Giants enter 2024 with this QB room:
Williams/Daniels/Maye/Bo Nix/Michael Penix
Tyrod Taylor
Michael Pratt/Spencer Rattler/Joe Milton
This can happen. There is nothing outlandish about it.
It's ok to want good things!
I dont disagree with you, but assuming the top 3 are gone, how high are you willing to draft at the 2nd tier?
Also when does the 2nd QB get picked?
ALSO, at what salary are paying Taylor despite drafting two other QBs?
I'm fine picking either Penix or Nix at 6, but this is what you pay Schoen for. He has to find out where they're likely to go and act accordingly. Same with the second drafted QB in that scenario.
As for Taylor his average salary the last two years was $5.5M. The number is probably in that ballpark.
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In comment 16390859 Go Terps said:
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Imagine a world where the Giants enter 2024 with this QB room:
Williams/Daniels/Maye/Bo Nix/Michael Penix
Tyrod Taylor
Michael Pratt/Spencer Rattler/Joe Milton
This can happen. There is nothing outlandish about it.
It's ok to want good things!
I dont disagree with you, but assuming the top 3 are gone, how high are you willing to draft at the 2nd tier?
Also when does the 2nd QB get picked?
ALSO, at what salary are paying Taylor despite drafting two other QBs?
I'm fine picking either Penix or Nix at 6, but this is what you pay Schoen for. He has to find out where they're likely to go and act accordingly. Same with the second drafted QB in that scenario.
As for Taylor his average salary the last two years was $5.5M. The number is probably in that ballpark.
The problem I have is signing Taylor. 40 mill of Jones salary is sunk, adding a 1st round pick and Taylor 5.5 and we wont be able to get any worthwhile free agents anyways.
Either way, I rhink your plan is quite extreme. If you argued trading down a couple times and taking Penix or Nix while acculating more higher round picks and chose to stick with them + a late round giy like Milton and DeVito, I could live with that.
Personally I believe that if Jones were behind the number 1 OL in the league, it would no longer be the number 1 OL in the league
We are not paying him anything this year. He gets the money whether he works or not.
If your only concern is injury, keep him off the field. He still is cheaper than a comparable back up. The cost of a backup QB costs more on an expected return basis than the cost of DJ's injury guarantee. Even if the QB gets vet minimum. Because the chance of a backup QB triggering an injury guarantee is near zero. And DJ is a lot better than Jake Fromm or Mike Glennon.
We are not paying him anything this year. He gets the money whether he works or not.
If your only concern is injury, keep him off the field. He still is cheaper than a comparable back up. The cost of a backup QB costs more on an expected return basis than the cost of DJ's injury guarantee. Even if the QB gets vet minimum. Because the chance of a backup QB triggering an injury guarantee is near zero. And DJ is a lot better than Jake Fromm or Mike Glennon.
Shit doesn't work the way some of you want to believe.
Jones rebounding? When did ever bound?
I cant imagine that Jones can collect for the mere fact of having any injury
I would have to imagine it is an injury that prevents him from playing ie he would have to retire. Jones was cleared from his neck injury so thats not it. An ACL is a non-career threatening injury. He will recover .
Do we really think Jones would retire over attempting to play for another team over 23 million dollars? If so, he isnt a franchise QB that some think. These guys mindset is not like regular people. Just think Martindale gave up 3 million dollars so he could attempt to coach this season where he wanted to.
IF the Giants did cut Daniel Jones (and I Dont believe he will) Jones will recover from his ACL and attempt to continue his career with another team because he believes he is a QB worth 40+ million dollars a season
Whether they intend on drafting a QB or let it ride with Jones, they have to sign a 3rd QB. Optimistically Jones is ready for opening night, but no guarantees. Let's guess that QB is Tyrod Taylor for 1/5M.
In the hypothetical I'm posing, let's say the Giants trade up for Daniels. So now they have Jones, Daniels, Taylor, and DeVito under contract.
I struggle to come up with a reason to keep Jones on the roster.
Whether they intend on drafting a QB or let it ride with Jones, they have to sign a 3rd QB. Optimistically Jones is ready for opening night, but no guarantees. Let's guess that QB is Tyrod Taylor for 1/5M.
In the hypothetical I'm posing, let's say the Giants trade up for Daniels. So now they have Jones, Daniels, Taylor, and DeVito under contract.
I struggle to come up with a reason to keep Jones on the roster.
There is none. It wouldn't be good for Jones just like it wouldn't be good for the Giants. I think there is no future for DeVito here, if there was he wouldn't have been benched at halftime of the Eagles game.
Did Kerry Collins want to hang around after Eli was drafted? No. I'd think the same for Jones.
A lot depends on what happens with the draft. If the Giants really love a QB at the top, I suspect they'd try to trade up early in the process like Carolina did last year.
The question becomes if the Giants have the stomach for such a move.
My hypothetical is *given* the Giants draft a top tier QB, why keep Jones.
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Just cowboy fans trolling and fantasy football idiots…. The signed him… they want him… he’s the qb…. 20 holes to fill and qb isn’t top priority.
If I was a Cowboys fan I'd be begging the Giants to keep Jones for another 10 years.
THIS!