New York Giants general manager Joe Schoen and head coach Brian Daboll have been unwavering in their support of quarterback Daniel Jones.
Despite that, fans continue to insist that’s nothing but lip service and that the team will select Jones’ replacement in the 2024 NFL draft.
It’s best to pump those brakes.
As reported by Bleacher Report's Jordan Schultz:
“I can tell you that the Giants still believe in Daniel Jones,” Schultz said. “The Giants still believe, as does Brian Daboll, in Daniel Jones. And the players still do. There’s a lot of guys in that locker room that believe Daniel Jones is and should be the guy moving forward.”
“The Giants are not ready to shut the door on him. There’s a lot still to be played out in terms of the Daniel Jones-Giants situation,” Schultz added. “What I’ve been told is that not only does the staff and Brian Daboll believe in Daniel Jones, but (Mike) Kafka and the players do as well.
Fire away...
Daboll believes in Jones - (
New Window )
Daniel Jones cousin
The front office may still believe in Jones. If they do, we're going through another coaching change in January 2025.
The players? Who knows?
Lets wait and see who they add and then we will see how committed to Jones they are
Say what you want about Schoen and Daboll, they hold information like this close to their vest and I doubt any reporters have been told their real feelings.
Who’s the GM?
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Mike Vrabel will the be head coach January 2025.
Who’s the GM?
Given how much influence he’s had so far this offseason, probably Cowden
If they role with Jones I am fine with it and will trust the football people that worked with some really great QBs before.
?
Yeah okay.
Because of the contract, ownership may be thinking, "We'll give Jones one last chance. It makes financial sense for us to do so too. We continue to do everything to screw this kid up and he deserves yet another chance."
However, the knives are already out for Daboll. And if we've learned anything about ownership, they are quick to fire coaches when the public heat gets too intense. (We saw the same thing when Eli was benched).
As I've said, this year is starting to smell like a throw-away season. And Daboll may be the one thrown under the bus.
Because of the contract, ownership may be thinking, "We'll give Jones one last chance. It makes financial sense for us to do so too. We continue to do everything to screw this kid up and he deserves yet another chance."
However, the knives are already out for Daboll. And if we've learned anything about ownership, they are quick to fire coaches when the public heat gets too intense. (We saw the same thing when Eli was benched).
As I've said, this year is starting to smell like a throw-away season. And Daboll may be the one thrown under the bus.
Eric, seeing that the Vrabel chatter has already started on BBI, I have to imagine if we start slow that Mara begins to think "Belichick and Vrabel are both available"...
All I know it I will have absolutely no interest in Giants football in 2024 if we have another year of this shit. And I run a Giants website.
If Jones starts and the team gets smoked by the Cowboys in Week 1, the stands will be half empty in Week 2. Book it.
Simms - ( New Window )
Because of the contract, ownership may be thinking, "We'll give Jones one last chance. It makes financial sense for us to do so too. We continue to do everything to screw this kid up and he deserves yet another chance."
However, the knives are already out for Daboll. And if we've learned anything about ownership, they are quick to fire coaches when the public heat gets too intense. (We saw the same thing when Eli was benched).
As I've said, this year is starting to smell like a throw-away season. And Daboll may be the one thrown under the bus.
Nobody will ever convince me that Daboll is all in on Daniel Jones. Besides the sideline antics, he doesn’t exactly come across as being over the moon about the guy in press conferences. What is the most glowing thing Daboll has ever said about Jones? He’s a hard worker? He’s a great teammate? He’s done everything they’ve asked of him? Now compare that to the answers he gave about Josh Allen the week they played Buffalo.
Daboll knows what a franchise QB looks like.
Joe Schoen may be tight lipped, but John Mara is not.
The question isn't is Jones the guy --the question is, where else can we go with the position? Picking 6 may not get us a sure fire guys we can turn the house over to. So what then? Reach for a mediocre QB just to appease the fans? We should have kept DG if that's what we want.
Benton - ( New Window )
I always thought this was a career ending moment. Could not make a play every HS QB makes .
Dan Benton is not 19 years old, lol. He’s been around forever
DON’T TIP YOUR HAND
But to Eric’s point, they would be committing professional suicide. UNLESS, this is John’s position and they have hopped aboard that train. Then they could survive the eventual disaste.
Misread this. He’s been a journo for 19 years. Apologies.
If they don't get a QB, it's not because they're sold on Jones.
Because they’re clueless.
Because of the contract, ownership may be thinking, "We'll give Jones one last chance. It makes financial sense for us to do so too. We continue to do everything to screw this kid up and he deserves yet another chance."
However, the knives are already out for Daboll. And if we've learned anything about ownership, they are quick to fire coaches when the public heat gets too intense. (We saw the same thing when Eli was benched).
As I've said, this year is starting to smell like a throw-away season. And Daboll may be the one thrown under the bus.
Spot on Eric. If they have a 6 or 7 win season, is Daboll really getting another year? Doubtful.
I doubt this is even misdirection in lying season, although I hope it is.
They will suck. Jones will get hurt. Daboll will be fired.
Schoen and Dabes are at a crossroads here.
Players around the league shit on Jones and his contract. It’s a league wide joke.
Wake up people.
Makes me more apathetic and tuned out.
Wake up people.
Benton is aggregating Schultz report.
That came out the same time Barber and Simms backed Jones.
Wake up.
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Dan Benton of Giants wire is not the team's mouth piece. We know where they go for that.
Wake up people.
Benton is aggregating Schultz report.
That came out the same time Barber and Simms backed Jones.
Wake up.
Maybe, just maybe, this regime is playing everyone and at least getting it out there for the draft that Jones is stil the guy.
Now they might not get the QB they want at the top of the draft, but this at least helps.
It might get real ugly at MetLife this fall in terms of no shows.
The question isn't is Jones the guy --the question is, where else can we go with the position? Picking 6 may not get us a sure fire guys we can turn the house over to. So what then? Reach for a mediocre QB just to appease the fans? We should have kept DG if that's what we want.
Exactly. I guess people have nothing else to do except create another DJ thread. Life is too short and time is valuable.
If they don't get a QB, it's not because they're sold on Jones.
LOL, everyone wants the Giants to announce:
"Daniel Jones is not our starting QB - we'll be looking for his replacement early and often in the 2024 draft".
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Than they do watching with their eyes and pay attention to actions.
If they don't get a QB, it's not because they're sold on Jones.
LOL, everyone wants the Giants to announce:
"Daniel Jones is not our starting QB - we'll be looking for his replacement early and often in the 2024 draft".
No if that were the case, nothing would be reported. You keep your mouth shut. What is going on here is the franchise is basically saying Jones will be here next year and the week 1 starter.
78 days to go of this.
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Than they do watching with their eyes and pay attention to actions.
If they don't get a QB, it's not because they're sold on Jones.
LOL, everyone wants the Giants to announce:
"Daniel Jones is not our starting QB - we'll be looking for his replacement early and often in the 2024 draft".
The real concern is where the options are for the team, not whether or not Jones is the answer. Jones is the answer until there is someone else on the roster better. And that's the way it should be.
It might get real ugly at MetLife this fall in terms of no shows.
The report says the Giants still believe in the QB which they have $81M guaranteed too. It's a bullshit article to gather clicks on a polarizing topic. There's nothing new here.
You'd be foolish to think that another QB won't be brought in some capacity.
Hopefully it's a draft pick. And they're going to need a vet if that's the case as insurance.
QB room will look different in 2024. Book it.
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In comment 16391285 UberAlias said:
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Than they do watching with their eyes and pay attention to actions.
If they don't get a QB, it's not because they're sold on Jones.
LOL, everyone wants the Giants to announce:
"Daniel Jones is not our starting QB - we'll be looking for his replacement early and often in the 2024 draft".
No if that were the case, nothing would be reported. You keep your mouth shut. What is going on here is the franchise is basically saying Jones will be here next year and the week 1 starter.
You'd be foolish to think that another QB won't be brought in some capacity.
Hopefully it's a draft pick. And they're going to need a vet if that's the case as insurance.
QB room will look different in 2024. Book it.
However, they would be extremely incompetent to say/leak anything else prior to the draft.
It might get real ugly at MetLife this fall in terms of no shows.
Which wouldn't be the first time. Mara thought the fans were upset Eli was benched, when the truth was the fans were upset Eli was benched for Geno Smith. People would've understood Davis Webb playing.
This news cannot be a surprise.
Less than a year ago the Giants did an all hands on deck rigorous “deep dive” into the pros and cons of resigning Daniel Jones. They knew the tags were available. The leadership group decided to give him a 4-year deal with $90M guaranteed. That is a massive strategic decision that carries a certain level of commitment. All employed in the company need to embrace it.
After less than a year, you would rarely see a change of direction, with the same leadership in place. Especially when the extenuating circumstances were dysfunctional.
The Giants already decided on their QB last year and as Eric’s mentioned, they are tied to him. They made the commitment.
However, they would be extremely incompetent to say/leak anything else prior to the draft.
Link - ( New Window )
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...DJ won't even be ready to participate at the beginning of traning camp.
You'd be foolish to think that another QB won't be brought in some capacity.
Hopefully it's a draft pick. And they're going to need a vet if that's the case as insurance.
QB room will look different in 2024. Book it.
That's right. And they have literally come out and said this. And yet that response continues to get ignored because people prefer freaking out over bland coach speak.
Hmm hm. That’s why everyone tied to the organization with a public voice has come out this week in support of Jones.
All they said was that they’d bring in a QB. Not that there would be a real open competition for the job.
There isn't a planet in this solar system where they decide to leak this and then think, "You know who would be the right guy to float this into the wild? That kid no one's ever heard of from Bleacher Report."
This "article" is flimsier than even a Pat Leonard or Jordan Raanan piece. He doesn't even have unnamed sources, he just has "what I've been told," which is a lot like "I'm reading on Twitter and a team message board that the Giants aren't ready to move on from Jones."
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In comment 16391285 UberAlias said:
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Than they do watching with their eyes and pay attention to actions.
If they don't get a QB, it's not because they're sold on Jones.
LOL, everyone wants the Giants to announce:
"Daniel Jones is not our starting QB - we'll be looking for his replacement early and often in the 2024 draft".
No if that were the case, nothing would be reported. You keep your mouth shut. What is going on here is the franchise is basically saying Jones will be here next year and the week 1 starter.
JS would love for you to be the opposing GM.
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In comment 16391324 BillKo said:
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...DJ won't even be ready to participate at the beginning of traning camp.
You'd be foolish to think that another QB won't be brought in some capacity.
Hopefully it's a draft pick. And they're going to need a vet if that's the case as insurance.
QB room will look different in 2024. Book it.
That's right. And they have literally come out and said this. And yet that response continues to get ignored because people prefer freaking out over bland coach speak.
Hmm hm. That’s why everyone tied to the organization with a public voice has come out this week in support of Jones.
All they said was that they’d bring in a QB. Not that there would be a real open competition for the job.
Literally why the fuck would they say anything different?
You want them to show there hand in fucking februrary? Yeah, let's drive up our own price of trading up, or signal teams behind us that they need to trade up in front of us if they want a QB.
I swear to god I am surprised some of your guys are functioning humans
The Giants didn't score first half TD's until Tommy Cutlets and Tyrod Taylor took over that position.
Jones is toast as far as the fans see it. Mara will be throwing trash cans around this year when the fans begin booing Jones while they remain in last place.
Jones is a subpar back-up QB at best.
Get rid of him!
Eighthshamrocks
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In comment 16391324 BillKo said:
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...DJ won't even be ready to participate at the beginning of traning camp.
You'd be foolish to think that another QB won't be brought in some capacity.
Hopefully it's a draft pick. And they're going to need a vet if that's the case as insurance.
QB room will look different in 2024. Book it.
That's right. And they have literally come out and said this. And yet that response continues to get ignored because people prefer freaking out over bland coach speak.
Hmm hm. That’s why everyone tied to the organization with a public voice has come out this week in support of Jones.
All they said was that they’d bring in a QB. Not that there would be a real open competition for the job.
Praying this is just smoke.
This is just smoke, right guys?
.... I'm gonna go listen to Linkin Park...
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In comment 16391324 BillKo said:
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...DJ won't even be ready to participate at the beginning of traning camp.
You'd be foolish to think that another QB won't be brought in some capacity.
Hopefully it's a draft pick. And they're going to need a vet if that's the case as insurance.
QB room will look different in 2024. Book it.
That's right. And they have literally come out and said this. And yet that response continues to get ignored because people prefer freaking out over bland coach speak.
Hmm hm. That’s why everyone tied to the organization with a public voice has come out this week in support of Jones.
All they said was that they’d bring in a QB. Not that there would be a real open competition for the job.
Anyone who has coached - any type of sport at a competitive level - knows that competition at a position is what you need to make that position better.
Brian Daboll did not do a good job last year overall, IMO. But I believe he's a good coach and recognizes the issues in the QB room.
There's no way he's not going to create competition this coming year. JS knows it too.
Always good to spend almost 19% of your cap for 22 TDs and less than 7 Y/A.
Literally why the fuck would they say anything different?
You want them to show there hand in fucking februrary? Yeah, let's drive up our own price of trading up, or signal teams behind us that they need to trade up in front of us if they want a QB.
I swear to god I am surprised some of your guys are functioning humans
Who said they have to say there’s an open competition for the job and take a QB in the first?
They could have every intention to add a QB in case Jones gets hurt again, but have zero intention of Jones not being handed the job in 2024. That has zero to do with whether they trade up or not.
That would be sticking with and believing in Jones, would it not?
And the rest of the league knows the Giants need a QB. They knew it last spring and the one before it too.
For the draft, it seems likely they will draft a QB at some point. You can imagine they won't give up serious draft resources to move up to get a QB. If one of the top 3 guys dropped to 6 (?Maye?) maybe they would take him, but they have to really like whoever that is. And if not, it would not be the least bit surprising if they draft one of the other guys with one of the 2nd round picks. So it seems like nothing has changed.
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Literally why the fuck would they say anything different?
You want them to show there hand in fucking februrary? Yeah, let's drive up our own price of trading up, or signal teams behind us that they need to trade up in front of us if they want a QB.
I swear to god I am surprised some of your guys are functioning humans
Who said they have to say there’s an open competition for the job and take a QB in the first?
They could have every intention to add a QB in case Jones gets hurt again, but have zero intention of Jones not being handed the job in 2024. That has zero to do with whether they trade up or not.
That would be sticking with and believing in Jones, would it not?
And the rest of the league knows the Giants need a QB. They knew it last spring and the one before it too.
There is nothing
zero
zilch
nada
to gain by coming out publicly and saying we want to add another QB to compete with Jones
It is literally detrimental to every aspect of the offseason
It's been explained over and over in this thread, but we can all believe what we want. If you want to believe Joe Schoen is going to Tiki with legit info on their intentions, have at it.
It’s not likely that Tiki (who works for the radio station Mara listens to) and Simms don’t know what Mara’s feelings on the QB situation are? Banks doesn’t?
I never said anything about Schoen’s intentions, but it’s almost 100% likely that Tiki, Simms, Banks, Eli, the burners, etc are relaying Mara’s feelings.
You would think they would want to draft a QB simply because it's been five years since the team has drafted a QB at all, and only two other teams have gone that entire stretch without drafting any QBs.
It's gross negligence to refuse to draft even a project prospect at the most important position in the sport for that long, regardless of the reason. And if there's even a shred of possibility that they're avoiding the position for fear of a QB controversy, they're even more lost than they appear.
But otherwise, I completely agree with this take.
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In comment 16391333 UberAlias said:
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In comment 16391324 BillKo said:
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...DJ won't even be ready to participate at the beginning of traning camp.
You'd be foolish to think that another QB won't be brought in some capacity.
Hopefully it's a draft pick. And they're going to need a vet if that's the case as insurance.
QB room will look different in 2024. Book it.
That's right. And they have literally come out and said this. And yet that response continues to get ignored because people prefer freaking out over bland coach speak.
Hmm hm. That’s why everyone tied to the organization with a public voice has come out this week in support of Jones.
All they said was that they’d bring in a QB. Not that there would be a real open competition for the job.
Literally why the fuck would they say anything different?
You want them to show there hand in fucking februrary? Yeah, let's drive up our own price of trading up, or signal teams behind us that they need to trade up in front of us if they want a QB.
I swear to god I am surprised some of your guys are functioning humans
Literally why the fuck would they say anything at all?
Some of you are exactly as gullible as John Mara hopes you are.
So you’re saying if the giants draft players and no qb this April, have a halfway decent offseason, maybe sign a good vet guard in fa, there’s no way they go 9-8 or 10-7 next season? No way? It just happened in 2022. But there’s no way it happens again.
Why is it such an abstract concept to think 2022 can happen again in 2024?
If they draft a qb in round 2 and go 6-11 again and this kid plays a good game in December no one is getting fired.
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would want to draft a QB this year to at least have an excuse if the team has a bad record
You would think they would want to draft a QB simply because it's been five years since the team has drafted a QB at all, and only two other teams have gone that entire stretch without drafting any QBs.
It's gross negligence to refuse to draft even a project prospect at the most important position in the sport for that long, regardless of the reason. And if there's even a shred of possibility that they're avoiding the position for fear of a QB controversy, they're even more lost than they appear.
The Patriots never went more than 3 years without drafting a QB when they had Tom Brady, the Giants haven't even thought about drafting one in 4 years since they took Jones. A 5th year without drafting ANY QB would be absurd.
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Mike Vrabel will the be head coach January 2025.
So you’re saying if the giants draft players and no qb this April, have a halfway decent offseason, maybe sign a good vet guard in fa, there’s no way they go 9-8 or 10-7 next season? No way? It just happened in 2022. But there’s no way it happens again.
Why is it such an abstract concept to think 2022 can happen again in 2024?
Because the Giants won a statistically improbable amount of one score games in 2022, weren’t good in the second half against any half way decent defense, and the entire league showed they know how to defend Daniel Jones.
If the Giants don’t improve at QB they’re not going to be good.
We will find out soon enough.
But keep in mind 1) the outcome is skull fucking Jones 2) part of Ocean's 11 includes Banks, Papa, Hanlon, and Schwartz.
Or, it could be misdirection.
Or, D/S realize that a true replacement for DJ is out of reach, and are getting out front with the vote of confidence. Too many BBIers can't grasp the simple concept that we are currently on the outside looking in regarding the top draft prospects, and the second tier prospects are not a sure thing to obtain, or to pan out. Going with a JAG vet is not much better than DJ, but diverts resources from being able to improve the team elsewhere.
It might get real ugly at MetLife this fall in terms of no shows.
In general, the organization needs to stop "reading the fan base and reacting". We see it here every day, how uneducated the average fan is with the ridiculous posts we're subjected to.
That being said, the Daniel Jones sample size should be referenced here, and it's screaming to everyone "it's time to move on".
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would want to draft a QB this year to at least have an excuse if the team has a bad record
You would think they would want to draft a QB simply because it's been five years since the team has drafted a QB at all, and only two other teams have gone that entire stretch without drafting any QBs.
It's gross negligence to refuse to draft even a project prospect at the most important position in the sport for that long, regardless of the reason. And if there's even a shred of possibility that they're avoiding the position for fear of a QB controversy, they're even more lost than they appear.
5 Years. An entire generation of high school QBs were recruited, spent 4 years playing QB at college, and were scouted and drafted all around the NFL.
Meanwhile our front office spent that same time jerking off in the Draft War Room and acting as if we already have Johnny Unitas on the roster.
Problem is, the “weapons” they added didn’t materialize. Parris Campbell, Waller and a rookie Hyatt didn’t move the needle much, and Bellinger disappeared.
Problem is, the “weapons” they added didn’t materialize. Parris Campbell, Waller and a rookie Hyatt didn’t move the needle much, and Bellinger disappeared.
What if that wasn’t the weapons fault?
For the draft, it seems likely they will draft a QB at some point. You can imagine they won't give up serious draft resources to move up to get a QB. If one of the top 3 guys dropped to 6 (?Maye?) maybe they would take him, but they have to really like whoever that is. And if not, it would not be the least bit surprising if they draft one of the other guys with one of the 2nd round picks. So it seems like nothing has changed.
Stop bringing logic and reason into this discussion
It might get real ugly at MetLife this fall in terms of no shows.
+1. If this is their actual plan, they are underestimating how bad this is going to get if Jones doesn't come out hot. Not just the outside media, but a grand majority of the fanbase (the Athletic just did a Giant fan survey where only 20 percent said that Jones was the long-term answer at QB). Also, the Jones endorsements from Banks, Eli, Tiki etc. aren't exactly oozing confidence anyway. I can't see this being an environment that's going to lead to success.
I really hope this isn't yet another scenario where the Giants FO are the last people to realize it's over.
This news cannot be a surprise.
Less than a year ago the Giants did an all hands on deck rigorous “deep dive” into the pros and cons of resigning Daniel Jones. They knew the tags were available. The leadership group decided to give him a 4-year deal with $90M guaranteed. That is a massive strategic decision that carries a certain level of commitment. All employed in the company need to embrace it.
After less than a year, you would rarely see a change of direction, with the same leadership in place. Especially when the extenuating circumstances were dysfunctional.
The Giants already decided on their QB last year and as Eric’s mentioned, they are tied to him. They made the commitment.
I tend to agree with this comment but with the added caveat that the ACL injury provides any decision makes that may be questioning the contract an "out".
Its an easy spin for Schoen to say to Mara "a huge part of his game is his legs, we factored that in when signing him. Now with that in question, we may want to bring in another QB rather than risk losing a season."
Daboll we presumably be coaching for his job this year and will probably be calling the plays. Jones is playing for his job. This is the kind of desperation that gets you in trouble. It's like playing for a contract.
I think Schoen will make it through if Daboll falls flat. We already have the Titan's OC on the staff along with the Titan's DC. If it goes sideways and Daboll and Jones fail you can probably expect a high draft pick again along with the Giants possibly bringing in Vrable...
who knows...
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I will say this: if true, the Giants are seriously misreading the fan base. I think 99.9% of fans are ready to move on.
It might get real ugly at MetLife this fall in terms of no shows.
In general, the organization needs to stop "reading the fan base and reacting". We see it here every day, how uneducated the average fan is with the ridiculous posts we're subjected to.
That being said, the Daniel Jones sample size should be referenced here, and it's screaming to everyone "it's time to move on".
The ironic thing is - if what we're hearing is true - the Giants for the first time in a while are giving the middle finger to fan sentiment. And it's all the service of being obstinate about Daniel Freaking Jones.
You can't script this level of ineptitude.
This.
The real question will be whether Schoen gets another year or not. Personally, in that scenario, I'd go after Vrabel and let him pick a personnel guy he wants to work with.
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regarding Jones. "Still believe in him" isn't that different from "not willing to give up on him yet". They gave him a contract that is essentially guaranteed for 2 years, and as many people have said, the dollar amount was anticipating improvement we haven't seen. After 2024 the cap hit isn't that bad. They have said they will have to do "something" at the QB position, and that probably means committing some dollars to backup QB. They are still hoping to see improvement in Jones and we don't know how much the likelihood of that has decreased after last year. It probably has, but boy his OL sucked early in the season. Worse even than usual for the Giants.
For the draft, it seems likely they will draft a QB at some point. You can imagine they won't give up serious draft resources to move up to get a QB. If one of the top 3 guys dropped to 6 (?Maye?) maybe they would take him, but they have to really like whoever that is. And if not, it would not be the least bit surprising if they draft one of the other guys with one of the 2nd round picks. So it seems like nothing has changed.
Totally agree Bob. And it wouldn't surprise me if it was a later pick for QB. I think there is going to be a lot of hysterical people next season when Jones is under center.
No the complete opposite and far worse. Antipathy and apathy. Folks will check out and not come back for awhile. Giants are already losing a lot of younger generation of fans. They’ll accelerate it more with another losing season.
Because of the contract, ownership may be thinking, "We'll give Jones one last chance. It makes financial sense for us to do so too. We continue to do everything to screw this kid up and he deserves yet another chance."
However, the knives are already out for Daboll. And if we've learned anything about ownership, they are quick to fire coaches when the public heat gets too intense. (We saw the same thing when Eli was benched).
As I've said, this year is starting to smell like a throw-away season. And Daboll may be the one thrown under the bus.
This organization is sad and lost.
Terps said it many times, but it's a culture of scapegoating now. It's a LOSER culture that strictly serves placate what the owner wants and NOT what's best for the team e.g. PR optics and players he likes.
You can't shine up Johnny's toys to his liking? You are out the door. Nevermind if the toys are missing wheels and buttons to even operate properly. We have crossed the threshold of baby-minded idiocy.
I'm searching for a fence post to smash my head against.
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had better wake up and smell the coffee...
Because of the contract, ownership may be thinking, "We'll give Jones one last chance. It makes financial sense for us to do so too. We continue to do everything to screw this kid up and he deserves yet another chance."
However, the knives are already out for Daboll. And if we've learned anything about ownership, they are quick to fire coaches when the public heat gets too intense. (We saw the same thing when Eli was benched).
As I've said, this year is starting to smell like a throw-away season. And Daboll may be the one thrown under the bus.
Nobody will ever convince me that Daboll is all in on Daniel Jones. Besides the sideline antics, he doesn’t exactly come across as being over the moon about the guy in press conferences. What is the most glowing thing Daboll has ever said about Jones? He’s a hard worker? He’s a great teammate? He’s done everything they’ve asked of him? Now compare that to the answers he gave about Josh Allen the week they played Buffalo.
Daboll knows what a franchise QB looks like.
Daboll was around the GOAT TB12 and Josh Allen, he knows what it's supposed to look like... If the Giants roll with Jones I am convinced he's being held hostage from moving off of Jones.
Seriously
It's also perfectly acceptable for the Giants to come out and say they need better quarterback play and Jones need to improve or they need a better option. What is wrong with that?
Why is Jones treated with kid gloves?
Seriously
Has anyone said that?
On the flip side, why do all these reports, ex players, team mouth pieces have to all come out and say the Giants still believe in Jones? They’re not coming from nowhere, it’s because someone high up still does believe in Jones.
And why are all these reports and statements coming out at the same exact time?
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Mike Vrabel will the be head coach January 2025.
So you’re saying if the giants draft players and no qb this April, have a halfway decent offseason, maybe sign a good vet guard in fa, there’s no way they go 9-8 or 10-7 next season? No way? It just happened in 2022. But there’s no way it happens again.
Why is it such an abstract concept to think 2022 can happen again in 2024?
That's not the question.
We can have another 2022 in 2024. But who cares? The larger question is can Daniel Jones ever beat a good team and then multiple good teams to bring the Giants a Super Bowl? Most of us think no.
The way Jones has played historically reaching a wildcard was him realizing his upside and then we saw what happened when he plays good teams, plays in a divisional round, or plays under bright lights like Monday Night Football. He isn't good when the teams are good and the spotlight is brightest. The anti-Eli.
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would want to draft a QB this year to at least have an excuse if the team has a bad record
You would think they would want to draft a QB simply because it's been five years since the team has drafted a QB at all, and only two other teams have gone that entire stretch without drafting any QBs.
It's gross negligence to refuse to draft even a project prospect at the most important position in the sport for that long, regardless of the reason. And if there's even a shred of possibility that they're avoiding the position for fear of a QB controversy, they're even more lost than they appear.
Yep.
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In comment 16391323 SomeFan said:
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would want to draft a QB this year to at least have an excuse if the team has a bad record
You would think they would want to draft a QB simply because it's been five years since the team has drafted a QB at all, and only two other teams have gone that entire stretch without drafting any QBs.
It's gross negligence to refuse to draft even a project prospect at the most important position in the sport for that long, regardless of the reason. And if there's even a shred of possibility that they're avoiding the position for fear of a QB controversy, they're even more lost than they appear.
The Patriots never went more than 3 years without drafting a QB when they had Tom Brady, the Giants haven't even thought about drafting one in 4 years since they took Jones. A 5th year without drafting ANY QB would be absurd.
It's not a meritocracy with the Giants.
It's a Maratocracy.
It's also perfectly acceptable for the Giants to come out and say they need better quarterback play and Jones need to improve or they need a better option. What is wrong with that?
Why is Jones treated with kid gloves?
Yeah, I don't understand this either. Other owners will say all the time that a quarterback needs to play better (usually under the praise - criticize - praise sandwich model of public statements), but with Jones is always about what the team needs to do to serve him.
What the fuck do some of you expect or want to see here? Teams don't disclose shit. 90% of the time everything they say publictly is 100% horseshit lip service. They have nothing to gain by saying anything of substance.
Fans treat players they way their hopes align but even then most NYG fans who don't HATE Jones on an unhealthy obsessed level still acknowledge his shortcomings.
Also, here's a direct quote from Vacchiano back in late 2018: Per Vacchiano, "there is still a chance that Manning will return to the Giants in 2019 -- and even return as their starting quarterback" -- his sources tell him "management is open to the idea that another year with Manning at the helm might be the best option they have."
BBI also couldn't stop crying that NYG were never going to move on from Eli. LIterally, NEVER. How'd that turn out?
Conspiracy theory du jour. Now Mara controls Phil Simms and Tiki Barber and tells them what to say, huh? C'mon, man.
Yup. With the PsyOp failing, they have abandoned trying to convince the fans and gone to “shut up, this is how it’s going to be” and if you don’t like it, eff you you are not a fan.
Is Baker Mayfield going to top Jones' contract? Coming off a wild card win and a much better divisional round. Not to mention 4K yards passing with 28 TDs- something Jones has never sniffed. He's also a superior QB to Jones and its not really close.
He probably still won't get the same money Jones got.
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Publicly this week Simms - ( New Window )
Conspiracy theory du jour. Now Mara controls Phil Simms and Tiki Barber and tells them what to say, huh? C'mon, man.
Sure just a coincidence they’re all within days of each other..
Jones is the most talented QB on the roster and 3 fucking halfway decent games from Mr Cutlet, against so so teams while the offense was at its very best doesn't change a fucking thing. They still feel DJ is the best guy on the team. Don't like it? You don't have to. But you need to accept it. Coming here acting incedulously day after day after some stupid make believe article implies that DJ is safe and sound and everyone in the Giants camp sends him smooshy love notes day after day and no one says nary a word about his play just validates make b elieve nonsense. Dabol wants to win. Schoen wants to win. Their very careers hinge on winning. They don't owe Jones a fucking thing. They are stuck with him until someone better comes along which means you try and max out his potential. Until the Giants draft a kid early enough to add competition to the position, DJ is starting. The Giants won't stroke your ego or concerns in some stupid ass PC. They won't release little orphan annie secret clues on the radio about who they are drafting. They won't extract pounds of DJ flesh for you to gloat over. Mara doesn't want to pay some bad player simply because he smells like Eli. The guy fired COughlin. The guy fired so many people i've lost count. He moved on from Eli. He will move on from DJ if and when needed.
This news cannot be a surprise.
Less than a year ago the Giants did an all hands on deck rigorous “deep dive” into the pros and cons of resigning Daniel Jones. They knew the tags were available. The leadership group decided to give him a 4-year deal with $90M guaranteed. That is a massive strategic decision that carries a certain level of commitment. All employed in the company need to embrace it.
After less than a year, you would rarely see a change of direction, with the same leadership in place. Especially when the extenuating circumstances were dysfunctional.
The Giants already decided on their QB last year and as Eric’s mentioned, they are tied to him. They made the commitment.
Coughlin was a couple years past his expiration date when they fired him. And even then he couldn’t go fully in and fire Reese at the same time, because Reese was family. If it wasn’t for a press conference meltdown Judge would have been the coach for another year.
The idea that Mara moves on when necessary is laughable. He moves on when he gets pushed to move on when there’s too much embarrassment for him to take (Mcadoo, Judge) or when his hand is forced (Eli, Gettleman, Reese).
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Mike Vrabel will the be head coach January 2025.
So you’re saying if the giants draft players and no qb this April, have a halfway decent offseason, maybe sign a good vet guard in fa, there’s no way they go 9-8 or 10-7 next season? No way? It just happened in 2022. But there’s no way it happens again.
Why is it such an abstract concept to think 2022 can happen again in 2024?
I tend to agree 100% and I just don't understand the whole Jones has to go almost cult-like frenzy out there. I do recall reading something in a history book years ago that revolutions don't happen when things have hit rock bottom, but when they've started to get better. And I believe the reality is that the Giants are getting better. They won ten games and a road playoff game just a year ago (although for some bizarre reason a lot of the fan base just won't accept that fact) and while they slipped back to 6 wins this year there were at least three games they probably should have won. In fact, I think the fact they went 5-6 down the stretch with retread journeyman Tyrod Taylor and a undrafted rookie at QB is testament to the fact not that Jones is terrible but that once the OL got stabilized and the defence started to play better they are a reasonably competitive team. And they're competitive because we are starting to see the development of a good young talent base. Obviously they still need to keep adding to the talent base but I see no reason that they aren't at least in the 9-10 win column next year whoever is at QB and that with a top 10 pick, as well as three other top 70 picks they have a chance to add another playmaker or two.
Unfortunately the mob may miss out, but that will be their loss!
Is Baker Mayfield going to top Jones' contract? Coming off a wild card win and a much better divisional round. Not to mention 4K yards passing with 28 TDs- something Jones has never sniffed. He's also a superior QB to Jones and its not really close.
He probably still won't get the same money Jones got.
Uhh everyone knows. It's overstated hysterics. It's typical fan sticker shock from a big contract. It is what it is. We're hitched to Jones until we aren't.
KErry Collins earned 3.5 million or so in 2003. I think that was his cap hit. The cap that year was 43 million.
The cap in 2024 is expected to exceed 240 million. Jones cap hit in 2024 is 47 million.
QBs do take up a higher % of the cap these days. DJ is taking up about 10% of it next season. KC took up about 8% of it in 2003.
That's life in the NFL these days. We'll be fine if we draft good players. IF DJ sucks again he's done in 25.
Or, continue to build the roster, improve the offensive line, maybe draft a true #1 receiver, make this a "no-excuses" year for Jones, and if his play doesn't improve, you move on. Nothing in this scenario prevents Giants from also drafting a developmental QB or signing a vet. Schoen even said as much.
Even if the Giants draft one of the top three QBs, odds are they aren't winning next year and they've reduced their ability to improve the team going forward, at least through the draft.
If Jones stinks, the Giants also aren't winning next year but they're not down three #1 picks, can get out from under Jones as best as the contract allows.
Whichever route Schoen/Daboll take, I really doubt they're telling anyone what their plan is about Jones or anything else. They could go door #1 and I wouldn't be shocked, and same with door #2.
Btw, if John Mara is demanding fealty on the Jones issue and it blows up, it would really suck if he fires Daboll or Schoen or both for following orders.
The DJ contract was, and most probably still is, a real commitment by the major parties for 2 years. Two things could have changed that, and the feelings of the fanbase (unless they backed up their displeasure with actual withheld dollars) was not one of them.
1. DJ suffered a likely career ending injury.
2. Team was clearly a playoff team held back by inept QB play.
Neither happened.
You do understand that NOTHING as far as the 2024 season goes has happened yet...Right? You know the 2023 season is still going on as we haven't even had the SB game itself yet.
I feel like some of you want the management to come out and go Jones sucks, we need a QB... Of course you will also be the ones to say Giants showed their hand, were so open and stupid etc... One minute I hear that Schoen is really good about keeping leaks from coming out of Giants HQ's and then because some dude online says Giants believe in DJ's you take it as gospel and straight from Schoen and Daboll.
All I have heard so far is the Giants say DJ is still their QB but all things are on the table as far as the draft and FA goes. How about before you have a meltdown or a world is blowing up, sky is falling take, you wait and see what they do when the actual offseason begins..
Just saying...
My bad.
Still the same point stands. Teams pay the QB.
And I don’t think Schoen will have the authority to get a first round QB. Fans better hope no top QB prospect slides to #6 because it will be beyond painful when the NYG pass. (FWIW, I don’t think Schoen currently believes in DJ, but Medium Pepsi Mara and company won’t give him room to fix the problem. Only chance Schoen/Daboll keep their job in 2024 is if the later round QB they are allowed to take hits.)
The same Tiki who called for Coughlin's firing multiple times is now a mouthpiece for Mara?
Or the Henderson articles from Schwartz & Traina from last weekend implying Henderson would be named DC?
I agree that the Giants do not deserve the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not concerned about this nothing report.
Remember the idea that Tyrod was having a better camp was laughed at?
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Is 20% not 10%.
My bad.
Still the same point stands. Teams pay the QB.
How does your point still stand? Collins took up half the cap space of Jones, took the team to a Super Bowl and was a better players.
Teams pay the QB, the good teams don’t pay bad QBs 20% of the cap.
You do understand that NOTHING as far as the 2024 season goes has happened yet...Right? You know the 2023 season is still going on as we haven't even had the SB game itself yet.
I feel like some of you want the management to come out and go Jones sucks, we need a QB... Of course you will also be the ones to say Giants showed their hand, were so open and stupid etc... One minute I hear that Schoen is really good about keeping leaks from coming out of Giants HQ's and then because some dude online says Giants believe in DJ's you take it as gospel and straight from Schoen and Daboll.
All I have heard so far is the Giants say DJ is still their QB but all things are on the table as far as the draft and FA goes. How about before you have a meltdown or a world is blowing up, sky is falling take, you wait and see what they do when the actual offseason begins..
Just saying...
That of course require an element of sanity and sober reflection neither of which are strong suits of mobs at least in general. One other ironic element in all of this: last year at this time everyone was saying that Schoen and Daboll would not resign Jones because they would want to draft their own QB going forward hence the no-5th year option. This year Schoen and Daboll are sticking with Jones because there blind to his lack of talent (or worse Mara made them do it which is nothing more than bottom feeder conspiracy theory to justify a narrative that doesn't fly other wise). Go figure.
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In comment 16391323 SomeFan said:
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would want to draft a QB this year to at least have an excuse if the team has a bad record
You would think they would want to draft a QB simply because it's been five years since the team has drafted a QB at all, and only two other teams have gone that entire stretch without drafting any QBs.
It's gross negligence to refuse to draft even a project prospect at the most important position in the sport for that long, regardless of the reason. And if there's even a shred of possibility that they're avoiding the position for fear of a QB controversy, they're even more lost than they appear.
5 Years. An entire generation of high school QBs were recruited, spent 4 years playing QB at college, and were scouted and drafted all around the NFL.
Meanwhile our front office spent that same time jerking off in the Draft War Room and acting as if we already have Johnny Unitas on the roster.
Btw, how many of that generation of HS and college QBs were good enough to play QB at a high level in the NFL or are even on an NFL roster? Oh, and Zack Wilson says hold my beer or pass it to Trey Lance.
Fine, but the Giants don't agree with you.
Here's another thing that annoys me to no end, can some of you allow for the near certainty that if Tyrod Fucking Taylor or Tommy Cutlets played those first few weeks in place of Jones that they get their fucking head caved in?
Do you really really believe that Taylor is doing much of anything against Dallas week 1? Is he leading that comeback against the Cards in week 2? Is hew beating SF on the road? Some of you can't fo five minutes here without saying much better the backups looked in October-December but leave out the details, as usual.
Tommy fucking Devito isn't beating anyone in September and neither is TAylor. That team was a shit show. No Barkley after week 2. Yea, good luck.
Just allow for some rational fair thought here. Or is that asking too much.
Through the years you've often expressed how the Giants will be fine or survive the bad contracts they've given.
But do you ever consider the reason the Giants haven't strung together two good seasons since 2011/2012 is because so few of the players they've given big contracts to, haven't played well?
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Publicly this week Simms - ( New Window )
I'm searching for a fence post to smash my head against.
+1
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In comment 16391499 ajr2456 said:
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Is 20% not 10%.
My bad.
Still the same point stands. Teams pay the QB.
How does your point still stand? Collins took up half the cap space of Jones, took the team to a Super Bowl and was a better players.
Teams pay the QB, the good teams don’t pay bad QBs 20% of the cap.
Dude we know. My point was teams pay a higher % of the cap to the QB these days. Enough.
Which is why I suspect we will suck this fall.
Sucks even worse I live in Chiefs country and have a brother that is a Niners fan.
Get your %%%% together Mara. My God. Anybody who still supports Jones is a loser, full stop. I don't care if he's gotten a raw deal here (he hasn't). Time to move on.
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Is 20% not 10%.
My bad.
Still the same point stands. Teams pay the QB.
How does your point still stand? When you pay your QB as the 10th highest paid player in the league and he can't even perform at an average starting level, you are giving your team little chance to succeed.
Kerry Collins was also good and took the Giants to a super bowl. Big difference.
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would want to draft a QB this year to at least have an excuse if the team has a bad record
You would think they would want to draft a QB simply because it's been five years since the team has drafted a QB at all, and only two other teams have gone that entire stretch without drafting any QBs.
It's gross negligence to refuse to draft even a project prospect at the most important position in the sport for that long, regardless of the reason. And if there's even a shred of possibility that they're avoiding the position for fear of a QB controversy, they're even more lost than they appear.
Has Joe Schoen said the Giants are refusing to draft a QB this year? I don't think so. He did say in public, right into a microphone, that the Giants will have to do something at QB this year and he didn't rule out doing this through the draft. Perhaps you'd like him to specify at which round he's going to draft a QB or which free-agent vet he's going to sign. If so, I don't think that's going to happen.
It’s the $ and DJs bonus and guarantees. Mara is tight enough to green light medium (not large) Pepsis for the season ticket holder (not for each season ticket). NYG are a family business and fans haven’t thought of it in this way, but NYG might be in the same position and of the same mindset of other tight franchises, e.g. Chargers.
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In comment 16391506 djm said:
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In comment 16391499 ajr2456 said:
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Is 20% not 10%.
My bad.
Still the same point stands. Teams pay the QB.
How does your point still stand? Collins took up half the cap space of Jones, took the team to a Super Bowl and was a better players.
Teams pay the QB, the good teams don’t pay bad QBs 20% of the cap.
Dude we know. My point was teams pay a higher % of the cap to the QB these days. Enough.
The Giants will have the 6th-highest total cap number at the QB position in 2024, virtually all of which will belong to Jones.
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In comment 16391365 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 16391323 SomeFan said:
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would want to draft a QB this year to at least have an excuse if the team has a bad record
You would think they would want to draft a QB simply because it's been five years since the team has drafted a QB at all, and only two other teams have gone that entire stretch without drafting any QBs.
It's gross negligence to refuse to draft even a project prospect at the most important position in the sport for that long, regardless of the reason. And if there's even a shred of possibility that they're avoiding the position for fear of a QB controversy, they're even more lost than they appear.
5 Years. An entire generation of high school QBs were recruited, spent 4 years playing QB at college, and were scouted and drafted all around the NFL.
Meanwhile our front office spent that same time jerking off in the Draft War Room and acting as if we already have Johnny Unitas on the roster.
Btw, how many of that generation of HS and college QBs were good enough to play QB at a high level in the NFL or are even on an NFL roster? Oh, and Zack Wilson says hold my beer or pass it to Trey Lance.
When you're allocating $47M of your cap to Daniel Jones in 2024, using Zack Wilson and Trey Lance as your scare tactic isn't quite the flex you think it is.
The answer is more than zero. And zero is the number of QBs that the Giants have drafted in that time.
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In comment 16391227 ajr2456 said:
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Mike Vrabel will the be head coach January 2025.
So you’re saying if the giants draft players and no qb this April, have a halfway decent offseason, maybe sign a good vet guard in fa, there’s no way they go 9-8 or 10-7 next season? No way? It just happened in 2022. But there’s no way it happens again.
Why is it such an abstract concept to think 2022 can happen again in 2024?
I tend to agree 100% and I just don't understand the whole Jones has to go almost cult-like frenzy out there. I do recall reading something in a history book years ago that revolutions don't happen when things have hit rock bottom, but when they've started to get better. And I believe the reality is that the Giants are getting better. They won ten games and a road playoff game just a year ago (although for some bizarre reason a lot of the fan base just won't accept that fact) and while they slipped back to 6 wins this year there were at least three games they probably should have won. In fact, I think the fact they went 5-6 down the stretch with retread journeyman Tyrod Taylor and a undrafted rookie at QB is testament to the fact not that Jones is terrible but that once the OL got stabilized and the defence started to play better they are a reasonably competitive team. And they're competitive because we are starting to see the development of a good young talent base. Obviously they still need to keep adding to the talent base but I see no reason that they aren't at least in the 9-10 win column next year whoever is at QB and that with a top 10 pick, as well as three other top 70 picks they have a chance to add another playmaker or two.
wrong, they won 9 games. the 10th game was the WC game against a bad Minnesota team. If you can't see Jones isn't a Championship QB, or even a decent QB, by this point, then you deserve what you're gonna get with another year of an over-paid guy who can't read defenses, doesn't go past his first read, and wilts when he's playing a good team or is in the spotlight. Drafting a Duke QB who'd never been successful his entire career at #6, then doubling down on him with a huge contract are two of the dumbest, most franchise setting back things the Giants have ever done.
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In comment 16391323 SomeFan said:
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would want to draft a QB this year to at least have an excuse if the team has a bad record
You would think they would want to draft a QB simply because it's been five years since the team has drafted a QB at all, and only two other teams have gone that entire stretch without drafting any QBs.
It's gross negligence to refuse to draft even a project prospect at the most important position in the sport for that long, regardless of the reason. And if there's even a shred of possibility that they're avoiding the position for fear of a QB controversy, they're even more lost than they appear.
Has Joe Schoen said the Giants are refusing to draft a QB this year? I don't think so. He did say in public, right into a microphone, that the Giants will have to do something at QB this year and he didn't rule out doing this through the draft. Perhaps you'd like him to specify at which round he's going to draft a QB or which free-agent vet he's going to sign. If so, I don't think that's going to happen.
I'd prefer for him and anyone else in the front office to not say anything at all.
I know a fan sentiment campaign when I see one.
Dude we know. My point was teams pay a higher % of the cap to the QB these days. Enough.
Did they? QB yearly cash as a percentage of team payroll from 2003:
Plummer 34%
Harrington 32%
Palmer 30%
Manning 29%
Brady 29%
Couch 26%
Garcia and Gannon 23%
Favre 21%
Collins was at 9%
Jones will be at 15% this year. The cap mechanics being different in 2003 doesn’t make your point correct. The CBA has changed three times since 2003.
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(even top of the food chain for this site) survive daily life. One person makes a comment that to me means nothing more than what we have heard already and you jump on the "sky is falling, throw away season, Mara pushing his narrative) blah blah blah..
You do understand that NOTHING as far as the 2024 season goes has happened yet...Right? You know the 2023 season is still going on as we haven't even had the SB game itself yet.
I feel like some of you want the management to come out and go Jones sucks, we need a QB... Of course you will also be the ones to say Giants showed their hand, were so open and stupid etc... One minute I hear that Schoen is really good about keeping leaks from coming out of Giants HQ's and then because some dude online says Giants believe in DJ's you take it as gospel and straight from Schoen and Daboll.
All I have heard so far is the Giants say DJ is still their QB but all things are on the table as far as the draft and FA goes. How about before you have a meltdown or a world is blowing up, sky is falling take, you wait and see what they do when the actual offseason begins..
Just saying...
That of course require an element of sanity and sober reflection neither of which are strong suits of mobs at least in general. One other ironic element in all of this: last year at this time everyone was saying that Schoen and Daboll would not resign Jones because they would want to draft their own QB going forward hence the no-5th year option. This year Schoen and Daboll are sticking with Jones because there blind to his lack of talent (or worse Mara made them do it which is nothing more than bottom feeder conspiracy theory to justify a narrative that doesn't fly other wise). Go figure.
You think you'll stick around for the whole draft this year, or do you have to check on the ponies over the weekend?
NYG isn't taking a QB early
NYG isn't taking a QB early
Welp...
NYG isn't taking a QB early
The Giants may want a QB early, but realize they are drafting #6 and are stuck in a contract with Jones.
Have to think even Mara feels throwing Jones out there is a risk not just for the team (wins/losses) but for his health. He has to be thinking that at some point.
Maybe they are playing this Jones thing up..
1. because they are lowering fan expectations
2. they are being savvy and have a FA and/or draft strategy
3. or none of the above.
But its getting hard to get worked up on these reports until we see more.
NYG isn't taking a QB early
It depends on how they get here. If it plays out like your mock where they PASS on Drake Maye, this regime will get everything they deserve.
If it's passing on a QB they don't feel is worth it at six and they trade down. I can live with that.
I still believe they'll bring in legit competition, because this is seriously low-energy stuff they're trotting out there (other than Tiki's comments).
NYG isn't taking a QB early
Sy- even if one of the top 3 fall to 5 or 6th?
- you can't see any scenario of them trading up for one?
- how about the trading into the late 1st or early 2nd?
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whether I agree with it being right is not relevant
NYG isn't taking a QB early
The Giants may want a QB early, but realize they are drafting #6 and are stuck in a contract with Jones.
Have to think even Mara feels throwing Jones out there is a risk not just for the team (wins/losses) but for his health. He has to be thinking that at some point.
Maybe they are playing this Jones thing up..
1. because they are lowering fan expectations
2. they are being savvy and have a FA and/or draft strategy
3. or none of the above.
But its getting hard to get worked up on these reports until we see more.
Sigh, #1. Don't know if my expectations can get much lower. Time to get the banner ready and warm up the plane.
I still believe they'll bring in legit competition, because this is seriously low-energy stuff they're trotting out there (other than Tiki's comments).
Yep. There is no scholarship here. He might be QB1 on the depth chart, but it'll be a short leash imo.
It depends on how they get here. If it plays out like your mock where they PASS on Drake Maye, this regime will get everything they deserve.
I think this fanbase is way too content most of the time, but if they pass on Maye, he looks great and Jones struggles again, it will make the clown meme from the Judge days look like a Superbowl parade.
NYG isn't taking a QB early
Any tidbits heard round the bend at Senior Bowl worth sharing?
Except for that one year recently where Jones played really well and they won a playoff game, in Daboll's first year with the team.
I don't think this report moves the needle much.
Except you were proven wrong on that yesterday.
What about the other 4 years of Jones career?
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Mike Vrabel will the be head coach January 2025.
Why is it such an abstract concept to think 2022 can happen again in 2024?
Because 2022 was the outlier, not the norm
There's another faction, likely comprised of Schoen and the people he's brought in, who like Jones but were pretty spooked by what they saw in 2023, and feel urgency to hedge their bets if a good opportunity presents itself.
Beats/PR mouthpieces: most of the beats seem to actually think it's time to move on for various reasons, the PR mouthpieces (Banks, Simms, Eli etc.) are supporting Jones publicly but also sound like they're getting tired of it.
Fanbase: about 75 percent done, 25 percent on board with Jones.
Locker room: seems kinda split. If they don't retain Barkley, I think that will say a lot.
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In comment 16391365 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16391323 SomeFan said:
Quote:
would want to draft a QB this year to at least have an excuse if the team has a bad record
You would think they would want to draft a QB simply because it's been five years since the team has drafted a QB at all, and only two other teams have gone that entire stretch without drafting any QBs.
It's gross negligence to refuse to draft even a project prospect at the most important position in the sport for that long, regardless of the reason. And if there's even a shred of possibility that they're avoiding the position for fear of a QB controversy, they're even more lost than they appear.
5 Years. An entire generation of high school QBs were recruited, spent 4 years playing QB at college, and were scouted and drafted all around the NFL.
Meanwhile our front office spent that same time jerking off in the Draft War Room and acting as if we already have Johnny Unitas on the roster.
Btw, how many of that generation of HS and college QBs were good enough to play QB at a high level in the NFL or are even on an NFL roster? Oh, and Zack Wilson says hold my beer or pass it to Trey Lance.
Don't be obtuse, obviously there were QBs. And it doesn't matter how many. It only matters the Giants ignored every single one of them.
And why?...because they obviously know better.
surprise, surprise
There's another faction, likely comprised of Schoen and the people he's brought in, who like Jones but were pretty spooked by what they saw in 2023, and feel urgency to hedge their bets if a good opportunity presents itself.
Beats/PR mouthpieces: most of the beats seem to actually think it's time to move on for various reasons, the PR mouthpieces (Banks, Simms, Eli etc.) are supporting Jones publicly but also sound like they're getting tired of it.
Fanbase: about 75 percent done, 25 percent on board with Jones.
Locker room: seems kinda split. If they don't retain Barkley, I think that will say a lot.
And I'm sure Jones is a very likable guy, it seems all the coaches like him and I'm sure he's a good student and tries hard. When you're not an asshole, the beat is less likely to slam a guy. Unlike Daboll who's already made some enemies on the beat. I think that plays into it too.
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In comment 16391505 jvm52106 said:
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(even top of the food chain for this site) survive daily life. One person makes a comment that to me means nothing more than what we have heard already and you jump on the "sky is falling, throw away season, Mara pushing his narrative) blah blah blah..
You do understand that NOTHING as far as the 2024 season goes has happened yet...Right? You know the 2023 season is still going on as we haven't even had the SB game itself yet.
I feel like some of you want the management to come out and go Jones sucks, we need a QB... Of course you will also be the ones to say Giants showed their hand, were so open and stupid etc... One minute I hear that Schoen is really good about keeping leaks from coming out of Giants HQ's and then because some dude online says Giants believe in DJ's you take it as gospel and straight from Schoen and Daboll.
All I have heard so far is the Giants say DJ is still their QB but all things are on the table as far as the draft and FA goes. How about before you have a meltdown or a world is blowing up, sky is falling take, you wait and see what they do when the actual offseason begins..
Just saying...
That of course require an element of sanity and sober reflection neither of which are strong suits of mobs at least in general. One other ironic element in all of this: last year at this time everyone was saying that Schoen and Daboll would not resign Jones because they would want to draft their own QB going forward hence the no-5th year option. This year Schoen and Daboll are sticking with Jones because there blind to his lack of talent (or worse Mara made them do it which is nothing more than bottom feeder conspiracy theory to justify a narrative that doesn't fly other wise). Go figure.
You think you'll stick around for the whole draft this year, or do you have to check on the ponies over the weekend?
Another slow day at 1925 Giants Dr, East Rutherford.
Meanwhile, looks like we've got a problem in the 3rd race at Gulfstream Park...
If 2022 is the best we can hope for out of a QB taking up nearly 20% of the team's cap next year, we should be upset.
That's because we are in the same situation.
A team without a good QB going nowhere.
So, once Team Barkley is re-signed our Fantastic Four with be in place. Once again.
Past. Present. Future.
2022 is world's away from 2024. Daboll/Schoen came in with basically a freebie season to clear out the detriutus. They declined Jones' option which relieved a ton of external pressure on the team, because all potential criticism from the fans and media could relax because if he didn't perform, he would be gone. On top of that, the QB class in 2022 was putrid.
Schoen/Daboll do not have a freebie season in 2024. They backslide in 2023, and the 2024 team will be dominated by guys they've brought in, and it's time for those guys to show and prove because thus far, the 2-3 best players on the Giants are all Gettleman guys. They have actual alternatives to moving on from Jones in the draft, and unlike the Glennon/Fromm days in 2021, the backup QBs played as well or better than Jones in 2023.
There is an enormous amount of pressure in 2024 that wasn't there in 2022 due to the amount of money they've paid Jones and the alternatives they would theoretically pass on. If Jones and the team don't come out firing, the reaction from most people will be "get these f$cking morons out of here," a far cry than what would've happened had 2022 been a bad season.
As a result, I don't see this going well at all if Jones is the unquestioned starter, whereas I predicted Jones would've have a good 2022 due to the comparative lack of pressure.
In case you missed it
christian : 2/6/2024 9:12 am : link : reply
In comment 16390061 ryanmkeane said:
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He took the Giants to the final 4 of the conference in a year where most of this board thought the Giants would go 3-14. Quite literally - this has now been forgotten by almost everyone on this message board.
You clearly don't have a strong grasp on the definition of literally, and I'm starting to think this extends to numbers in general.
2022 prediction thread - ( New Window )
Even if deep down they know Jones isn't the guy, they have to pay him a ton of money this year so I'm sure they figure why not give it one last shot. It's a pathetic way to run a franchise, but such is life these days at Jints Central. As Eric said, this is quickly becoming a throw away season.
I for one will not be paying close attention to the team if it's just Jones next year and I hope ownership is ready for a half empty stadium and a miserably angry fan base. Because that's what they're going to get. Jones is going to be booed mercilessly if he doesn't come out of the gate looking like a pro-bowler.
The front office may still believe in Jones. If they do, we're going through another coaching change in January 2025.
If this article is true, which I believe it is, the message is resounding.
Our football experts at 1925 Giants Way believe Daniel Jones can help them win a Super Bowl.
So, once Team Barkley is re-signed our Fantastic Four with be in place. Once again.
Past. Present. Future.
Bookmark it for the January 2025 regime change press conference.
I'm not OK with mediocre QB play. How many times do I have to say this before it gets through your head?
1. Giants roster still needs talent. We have 3 picks in the top 50, would be a nice time to hit on OL, Edge, WR, etc
2. Cost to trade up - you and all these other posters who keep yelling into the abyss - have NO IDEA what the cost is. For all we know it is 3 #1s.
3. Jones play in 2022 combined with early struggles in 2023 - this is not a "Jones sucks, we are done" type arrangement. Jones had arguably the worst performing OL in the NFL in the past 10 years for some of those games. Use your head - if it was practically impossible for him to play the position he isn't going to look very good
Thanks asshole.
Again, no they are not. The Giants have the 6th pick in the draft. Not the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd.
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get a formal position with the Giants. Might as well get paid to be a mouth piece for the organization and be OK with mediocre QB play.
I'm not OK with mediocre QB play. How many times do I have to say this before it gets through your head?
1. Giants roster still needs talent. We have 3 picks in the top 50, would be a nice time to hit on OL, Edge, WR, etc
2. Cost to trade up - you and all these other posters who keep yelling into the abyss - have NO IDEA what the cost is. For all we know it is 3 #1s.
3. Jones play in 2022 combined with early struggles in 2023 - this is not a "Jones sucks, we are done" type arrangement. Jones had arguably the worst performing OL in the NFL in the past 10 years for some of those games. Use your head - if it was practically impossible for him to play the position he isn't going to look very good
excuse, after excuse, after excuse, after excuse, after excuse, after excuse, after excuse....
Let's just go 10 years with Jones. Will that be long enough for ya?
All I can say is, if this is true, Schoen has to hit it out of the park with every pick and FA acquisition to create a perfect OL and supporting cast for Prescious.
I'm not OK with mediocre QB play. How many times do I have to say this before it gets through your head?
Nonsense, you were okay with Jone getting paid.
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then Schoen/Daboll are banking their careers on that Jones is probably their man. Saying that this is a risky move is putting it mildly.
Again, no they are not. The Giants have the 6th pick in the draft. Not the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd.
If Nix, McCarthy, or Penix ball out next year and the Giants have a bad season, absolutely Daboll and Schoen could be thrown under a bus, and rightfully so. Mara could conclude "you don't know how to evaluate the QB position."
Would you like me to change my opinion on Jones just so you will finally shut the fuck up about it?
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and have for ten years .
Except for that one year recently where Jones played really well and they won a playoff game, in Daboll's first year with the team.
It's almost like you go out of your way to brag about how ignorant you are with regard to sample size.
I’m a douchebag because I pointed out you were wrong about saying everyone thought the Giants would suck?
You’re not a douchebag for your “Jones is going to be the QB for a long time, deal with it”, and “you’re not a giants fan” posts the past couple of years.
It’s been said to you multiple times, you are what you accuse everyone else of being. One day you’ll realize that. Probably not today.
I thought he was on his way to the Hall of Fame with his 15 passing TDs.
WHO. CARES.
Time to move on.
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I have never wavered that I believe Schoen hitched his wagon to Team Jones with no reservations.
So, once Team Barkley is re-signed our Fantastic Four with be in place. Once again.
Past. Present. Future.
Bookmark it for the January 2025 regime change press conference.
If this goes the way this article suggests, I have no idea what to think going forward with this group.
I could easily see Jones absolutely getting another mulligan for 2023; and he's got 2024 and 2025 locked-up as the starting QB for NYG.
I swear, I almost get the sense they wanted the meaningless wins down the stretch so they wouldn't have a shot at this top three QBs...
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ajr, one of these days you are going to realize that you are a complete douchebag. Probably not today though.
I’m a douchebag because I pointed out you were wrong about saying everyone thought the Giants would suck?
You’re not a douchebag for your “Jones is going to be the QB for a long time, deal with it”, and “you’re not a giants fan” posts the past couple of years.
It’s been said to you multiple times, you are what you accuse everyone else of being. One day you’ll realize that. Probably not today.
Nope - again - you and christian completing twisting everything to fit your narrative which is what you do.
I'm saying everyone has conveniently forgotten NOW that the 2022 season happened. Including you.
Would you like me to change my opinion on Jones just so you will finally shut the fuck up about it?
You said you weren’t ok with mediocre QB play but he was below mediocre when they signed him too.
Sorry the truth hurts your feelings. But you’ve been ok with mediocre QB okay for 5 years.
You have a strong point of view on the Giants. If you could dial down the childishness, you and everyone else might have a more enjoyable time engaging.
As it stands now, what is it that you get out of bursting into these threads like the Kool Aid Man, telling everyone how dumb they are, when your batting average is pretty low all things considered?
Not sure if you can make it to Nashville, but this is probably worth the trip.
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Mike Vrabel will the be head coach January 2025.
So you’re saying if the giants draft players and no qb this April, have a halfway decent offseason, maybe sign a good vet guard in fa, there’s no way they go 9-8 or 10-7 next season? No way? It just happened in 2022. But there’s no way it happens again.
Why is it such an abstract concept to think 2022 can happen again in 2024?
Because 2022 was predicated on a.) A resurgent Saquon in the first half. Look what happened when he's effectiveness dropped. b.) A smoke and mirrors offense that caught primarily bad defenses off guard. Won't be able to run that again. c.) Enough things breaking their way: missed chip shot FG by TEN, Lamar getting butterfingers.
22 was a 6 win team that overachieved, it absolutely was not some floor but probably the ceiling. It was a mirage plain and simple
Nope - again - you and christian completing twisting everything to fit your narrative which is what you do.
I'm saying everyone has conveniently forgotten NOW that the 2022 season happened. Including you.
Twisted to fit a narrative? You said literally everyone was saying the Giants were going 3-14, and it turns out it was maybe five people. What do you call that? Or saying “I ran away from the board when they were winning and came back when the losing started” which never happened? What do you call those things?
Speaking of twisting, nobody has forgotten 2022 happened. It’s that 2022 wasn’t really that good and is no longer
So you are ok with mediocre QB play, then? Which one is it.
The favor for all of us would be you leaving, Baghdad Bob.
The problem with this regime not hedging on Jones is they will have little to o argument to return after 2024 without any hope at QB. Good franchises don't wait until they need a QB to draft one.
The other issue is with Jones contract, they'll be priced out of many of the vet options. I don't think they can afford Minshew. Taylor may look to leave after being benched in favor for DeVito.
Is Daboll going to hitch his wagon to a Jones-Mariota-DeVito QB room? Can he squeeze an 8-9 season out of that? Would be a massive task.
The problem with this regime not hedging on Jones is they will have little to o argument to return after 2024 without any hope at QB. Good franchises don't wait until they need a QB to draft one.
The other issue is with Jones contract, they'll be priced out of many of the vet options. I don't think they can afford Minshew. Taylor may look to leave after being benched in favor for DeVito.
Is Daboll going to hitch his wagon to a Jones-Mariota-DeVito QB room? Can he squeeze an 8-9 season out of that? Would be a massive task.
If Schoen and Daboll are so dumb and weak as to completely hitch their wagons to Jones, then they deserve what they get. My guess is they draft a rookie who will become the heir apparent and be starting by week 6 (or sooner). Or they bring in a vet who will easily win the job from Jones.
The 3-5-1 finish where the wins were barely beating a very bad Texans team, a bad Washington and a blowing out a Colts team that quit?
Was it the 15 touchdowns?
Was it getting humiliated and looking like a high school team against the Eagles?
2022 was mediocre to average. Just like Daniel Jones.
11-17-1 since the 6-1 start last year. But carry on.
I can’t imagine the stories you’re going to tell your grandchildren about the legendary 2022 season…
It was an outlier, you imbecile. How much more evidence will it take for you to accept that? Five years doesn't seem to be enough for you, but I also think we've all observed by now that you're a glutton for punishment anyway or you wouldn't keep coming onto these threads acting like you're the one entitled to a victory lap and then calling other people insufferable.
2022 also showed a natural ceiling to that when the Giants got skull fucked by the Eagles in the playoffs.
The 3-5-1 finish where the wins were barely beating a very bad Texans team, a bad Washington and a blowing out a Colts team that quit?
Was it the 15 touchdowns?
Was it getting humiliated and looking like a high school team against the Eagles?
2022 was mediocre to average. Just like Daniel Jones.
11-17-1 since the 6-1 start last year. But carry on.
yes
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Again - 2022 wasn't really that good? This might be the goal post moving post of the century.
It was an outlier, you imbecile. How much more evidence will it take for you to accept that? Five years doesn't seem to be enough for you, but I also think we've all observed by now that you're a glutton for punishment anyway or you wouldn't keep coming onto these threads acting like you're the one entitled to a victory lap and then calling other people insufferable.
They won 9 regular season games...half of the NFL team won 9 or more games in 2022. They had a negative point differential over the season, and were lucky enough to face another team (MINN) that also had a negative point differential in the wildcard round.
And then when the Giants actually faced real competition in the playoffs the next week in Philly it was over, and over with a thud.
Wake up, it wasn't really that good.
2022 also showed a natural ceiling to that when the Giants got skull fucked by the Eagles in the playoffs.
2022 also showed a natural ceiling to that when the Giants got skull fucked by the Eagles in the playoffs.
I don't remember it feeling all that great.
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In comment 16391671 ryanmkeane said:
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Again - 2022 wasn't really that good? This might be the goal post moving post of the century.
It was an outlier, you imbecile. How much more evidence will it take for you to accept that? Five years doesn't seem to be enough for you, but I also think we've all observed by now that you're a glutton for punishment anyway or you wouldn't keep coming onto these threads acting like you're the one entitled to a victory lap and then calling other people insufferable.
It wasn't that good. It was OK. Jones' passing numbers were pedestrian. If you give him the benefit of the doubt and combine his passing and rushing numbers, he was still outside the top 10, and that's when compared to other QBs passing only numbers. He had an OK season on a team that overachieved all around and caught some breaks.
Exactly, right. It wasn't much of an outlier statistically, maybe a little, because Jones' passing performance was bad. For the team it was an outlier because they racked up wins early. Part of the success was due to Daboll scheming Jones' running ability effectively. This really helped Jones' QBR. But we have seen that teams have gotten wise to defending Jones, and the latter half of 2022 and 2023 have been a disaster for the Golden Boy.
No, it wasn't. Winning 9 games and a wild card game is not the accomplishment you make it out to be, much like a QB who totals 22 TDs and less than 4000 total yards.
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Again - 2022 wasn't really that good? This might be the goal post moving post of the century.
They won 9 regular season games...half of the NFL team won 9 or more games in 2022. They had a negative point differential over the season, and were lucky enough to face another team (MINN) that also had a negative point differential in the wildcard round.
And then when the Giants actually faced real competition in the playoffs the next week in Philly it was over, and over with a thud.
Wake up, it wasn't really that good.
Didn't even have to wait until the playoffs. We saw what was coming against Seattle, Detroit and Philly in the regular season.
And Jones will need to commit to being much more of a pocket passer than he has in the past. That’s not his strength.
The NFL is a brutal league. There are many reasons to think 2022 is not reproducible.
2022 also showed a natural ceiling to that when the Giants got skull fucked by the Eagles in the playoffs.
Efficient passer? The only real positive was the cutdown on INTs. The rest of his passing numbers were pedestrian.
Maybe you're confusing efficiency with productivity?
Jones had the highest percentage of on target passes among NFL starters, had the 5th fewest bad throws among starters, was top 5 in completion percentage, and 11th in total completed passes.
The problem is that efficiency was a product of throwing the ball the shortest distance in the air among starters, and he didn't produce many yards or touchdowns.
And Jones will need to commit to being much more of a pocket passer than he has in the past. That’s not his strength.
The NFL is a brutal league. There are many reasons to think 2022 is not reproducible.
Like I said earlier, Schoen better hit a HR with every pick and FA, especially on the OL, WR, and TE to make everything perfect for Precious.
So we got that going for us...
13 completions of 10+ yards or more from outside of the pocket in 2022.
Thats it.
Neither did the rest of the league. But I was accused of making that up by the Jones club.
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He's not a good out of the pocket passer either. Even worse.
13 completions of 10+ yards or more from outside of the pocket in 2022.
Thats it.
Jones frankly looks like a better version of Taysom Hill. He's fine as a high-end backup or a low-end "bridge" starter for a team that needs a year or two to try and find a franchise QB.
Shurmur fired
Judge fired (Garrett before)
Daboll fired in this hypothetical
Has any QB with Jones record and production survived this many coaching staffs?
Jones frankly looks like a better version of Taysom Hill. He's fine as a high-end backup or a low-end "bridge" starter for a team that needs a year or two to try and find a franchise QB.
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someone said, the league has caught up to the fact that Jones is primarily a runner not a thrower. When your QB's best attribute is his legs then by definition you don't have a franchise QB. Running should be a secondary, not a primary, skill for a franchise QB.
Jones frankly looks like a better version of Taysom Hill. He's fine as a high-end backup or a low-end "bridge" starter for a team that needs a year or two to try and find a franchise QB.
I'm not saying Jones can or should be compared to these guys, but look at the better mobile QBs in the league in Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Jackson. They all make plays outside the pocket. Whether it's improvising or those fire/scramble drills. They find guys and can fling it in a hurry. Their threat to throw also greatly helps their ability to run and vice versa. Jones is not a threat to throw when forced out of the pocket (not talking about designed rollouts), which defenses have figured out. Defend him inside out.
Shurmur fired
Judge fired (Garrett before)
Daboll fired in this hypothetical
Has any QB with Jones record and production survived this many coaching staffs?
Who cares
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If Jones is on the roster in January 2025 and the new HC is having an intro press conference fielding questions about Jones - I can hear it now: "Well, I just saw Daniel in the weight room. He's a hard worker and I can't wait to work with him."
Shurmur fired
Judge fired (Garrett before)
Daboll fired in this hypothetical
Has any QB with Jones record and production survived this many coaching staffs?
Who cares
Clearly not you, but we've already established that you also would rather blindly support DJ than have the Giants actually be a winning organization.
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In comment 16391711 Matt M. said:
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He's not a good out of the pocket passer either. Even worse.
13 completions of 10+ yards or more from outside of the pocket in 2022.
Thats it.
And how many incompletions? And, not a stat for this, but how many drift to the sidelines patting the ball and never throwing it because the WR isn't WIDE open? A lot of BS "sacks" with him just running out of bounds, or runs between 0 and 5 yards.
sorry misremembered that was my mistake, it was 13 completions beyond 10 yards from the pocket. Regardless of if he was inside the pocket or outside of it. It was on the Big Blue Banter podcast from January 26th. They might have the full data there.
The 3-5-1 finish where the wins were barely beating a very bad Texans team, a bad Washington and a blowing out a Colts team that quit?
Was it the 15 touchdowns?
Was it getting humiliated and looking like a high school team against the Eagles?
2022 was mediocre to average. Just like Daniel Jones.
11-17-1 since the 6-1 start last year. But carry on.
Not to mention many of the 2022 in season wins were come from behind thanks to incredible defensive plays and DJ not being asked to even throw the ball in the 4th qtr. I can’t imagine anyone thinking they have their QB of the future when their QB either runs or hands off the ball when the game is on the line.
Maybe he's already on the Giants payroll.
If you don't think that has had an impact on how the oline and WRs looked in the Philly playoff game and this year, you don't understand what you're watching.
Maybe he's already on the Giants payroll.
The Giants are incompetent, but I don't think they're THAT incompetent. They already have to deal with Dottino around the halls, do you think they'd want another whiny shill?
Actually, they probably would.
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whether I agree with it being right is not relevant
NYG isn't taking a QB early
Sy- even if one of the top 3 fall to 5 or 6th?
- you can't see any scenario of them trading up for one?
- how about the trading into the late 1st or early 2nd?
The top 3 may not be what you think it will be
So I'm not really sure how to answer that question. I don't see any sort of aggressive move for a quarterback. That includes taking one at 6, and that includes a trade back into round 1. Staying put or a small trade up in round 2? I can see it.
Ryan definitely does not understand that. He doesn't understand the concept of sample sizes or outliers, clearly.
I used to think he was willfully obtuse. Now I just think he's trying his best.
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whether I agree with it being right is not relevant
NYG isn't taking a QB early
Any tidbits heard round the bend at Senior Bowl worth sharing?
I talked to scouts outside of NYG
The think Jones isn't the problem and/or they don't think Jones is getting pushed aside this fast.
Shurmur fired
Judge fired (Garrett before)
Daboll fired in this hypothetical
Has any QB with Jones record and production survived this many coaching staffs?
We should change his nickname from "Danny Dimes" to "Coach Killer."
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In comment 16391729 Sean said:
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If Jones is on the roster in January 2025 and the new HC is having an intro press conference fielding questions about Jones - I can hear it now: "Well, I just saw Daniel in the weight room. He's a hard worker and I can't wait to work with him."
Shurmur fired
Judge fired (Garrett before)
Daboll fired in this hypothetical
Has any QB with Jones record and production survived this many coaching staffs?
Who cares
Clearly not you, but we've already established that you also would rather blindly support DJ than have the Giants actually be a winning organization.
The only thing established is that some people are obsessed with the QB situation.
Game-winning drive vs. TEN:
Barkley runs for 4
Jones to James for 7
Jones to Barkley for 3
Barkley runs for 33
Toney runs for 4
Breida runs for 3
Jones runs for 2
Jones runs for 2
Barkley runs for 5
Barkley runs for 7
Barkley runs for 2
Jones 1-yard TD to Myarick on play-action
And the conversion to Barkley was basically, "here you take this and figure it out".
If you recall, the Giants punted on their previous drive but recovered a muffed punt at the TEN-11, and on the 2nd play Jones threw a dumbass INT in the endzone.
Stripping out the running piece of QBR, Jones was 13th in QBR passing.
He was 25th in YPA, 21st in ANY/A, last in IAY (intended air yardage), and last in CAY (completed air yardage).
These are not flattering results from a passing perspective. In fact, Jones's has basically repeated many of those numbers throughout his career.
In other words, a very good set of training wheels by Dabka and they managed Jones beautifully.
So, the bet made by Schoen in March of 2023 was that once the training wheels were removed and weapons added, Jones's growth would accelerate, and the money would be a bargain vis-a-vis the rest of the league.
Obviously, that never materialized as the entire offensive structure imploded. And this is where the great divide re-emerges.
Was Jones part of that implosion? Or was Jones just a victim of it?
We are hearing more and more that Jints Central has decided once again Jones is a victim and he needs even more time to show he can operate without training wheels.
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In comment 16391733 joe48 said:
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In comment 16391729 Sean said:
Quote:
If Jones is on the roster in January 2025 and the new HC is having an intro press conference fielding questions about Jones - I can hear it now: "Well, I just saw Daniel in the weight room. He's a hard worker and I can't wait to work with him."
Shurmur fired
Judge fired (Garrett before)
Daboll fired in this hypothetical
Has any QB with Jones record and production survived this many coaching staffs?
Who cares
Clearly not you, but we've already established that you also would rather blindly support DJ than have the Giants actually be a winning organization.
The only thing established is that some people are obsessed with the QB situation.
It's the most important position in football, and possibly the most important single position in American team sports.
It's worthy of obsession if you care about actually winning.
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The Ravens win was all Daniel Jones, he led them to that victory! Same with the Panthers win where they scored 1 td. Or the Bears win where they got 146 from Barkley and 3 turnovers. Those were all Daniel Jones leading us to victory.
Game-winning drive vs. TEN:
Barkley runs for 4
Jones to James for 7
Jones to Barkley for 3
Barkley runs for 33
Toney runs for 4
Breida runs for 3
Jones runs for 2
Jones runs for 2
Barkley runs for 5
Barkley runs for 7
Barkley runs for 2
Jones 1-yard TD to Myarick on play-action
And the conversion to Barkley was basically, "here you take this and figure it out".
If you recall, the Giants punted on their previous drive but recovered a muffed punt at the TEN-11, and on the 2nd play Jones threw a dumbass INT in the endzone.
And Jacksonville
Jones run
Saquon run
Breida run
Jones scramble
Jones run
Barkley run
Barkley run
Jones rush for a TD
Barkley run
Barkley run
Barkley run
Breida run
Jones run
Barkley run
(X3)
Field goal
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In comment 16391563 Sy'56 said:
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whether I agree with it being right is not relevant
NYG isn't taking a QB early
Any tidbits heard round the bend at Senior Bowl worth sharing?
I talked to scouts outside of NYG
The think Jones isn't the problem and/or they don't think Jones is getting pushed aside this fast.
This would be so, so disappointing.
The Giants' culture is based on trying to prove themselves right, protecting their own jobs, and finding a scapegoat when things inevitably go wrong.
It's getting harder and harder to root for this organization.
From my perspective, there's not much more to say than that. This endless debate of same old shit is already getting exhausting. We can pound the table in threads all we want, insult, scream, but it's not our decision to make, and quite honestly, we don't know half the shit we think we do. Not that that will stop anyone --there's a single person out there who's ever going to change their mind. Bottom line --it's going to be a LONG offseason.
Yep and that performance was raved as efficient here. Whereas Taylor had the same performance the next year and was shot down due to a lack of scoring by the Jones believers.
The boo birds will be out at MetLife after the first three and out with Jones behind center.
I really don’t think the Giants grasp how much the fan base is out on Jones.
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In comment 16391588 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 16391563 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
whether I agree with it being right is not relevant
NYG isn't taking a QB early
Any tidbits heard round the bend at Senior Bowl worth sharing?
I talked to scouts outside of NYG
The think Jones isn't the problem and/or they don't think Jones is getting pushed aside this fast.
This would be so, so disappointing.
The Giants' culture is based on trying to prove themselves right, protecting their own jobs, and finding a scapegoat when things inevitably go wrong.
It's getting harder and harder to root for this organization.
This is the problem with Giants management in a nutshell. They are dug in on choices and philosophy and winning is secondary. It's as I said earlier, when you root for the Giants you are stuck rooting for Mara and his approach. But what is a Giants fan to do if you think Mara is inept, and too close minded to see his meddling hurts the team?
Of course I get the frustration and need to vent. But it's become a dog chasing it's tail every time some media person pretends to have any insight into what the team plans.
Not really a whole lot different than a decade plus of John Mara doing the same.
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then.
What, and miss out on the inspiring intellectual conversation? Where would anyone go to demand they are right and repeat the same things over and over if he did, lol.
Of course I get the frustration and need to vent. But it's become a dog chasing it's tail every time some media person pretends to have any insight into what the team plans.
Bingo. We haven’t gotten to FA or the combine and people actually believe what’s being said?
Fact is no one knows nothing. Everyone is talking out of their ass to be the first to say they were right.
The Giants' culture is based on trying to prove themselves right, protecting their own jobs, and finding a scapegoat when things inevitably go wrong.
It's getting harder and harder to root for this organization.
I am curious when you have the epiphany that Schoen isn't in some untenable position trying to manage Mara.
But that he's actually the perfect outside GM voice Mara was looking for and he fits right into longstanding ethos.
I've got the Kleenex for you when you're ready.
Fact is no one knows nothing. Everyone is talking out of their ass to be the first to say they were right.
What we do know from past experience is that this organization likes to float trial balloons. And we have started to see a steady diet of pro-Jones stories. Sy's comments help bookend this in a way, too.
You can choose to ignore this, but it is an actual pattern.
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Over the last two days of people saying the same thing over and over.
I've got the Kleenex for you when you're ready.
Nobody has more than you on this site for sure. Not sure you recovered from the last beat down Eric gave you. Glad to see your doing well.
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Fact is no one knows nothing. Everyone is talking out of their ass to be the first to say they were right.
What we do know from past experience is that this organization likes to float trial balloons. And we have started to see a steady diet of pro-Jones stories. Sy's comments help bookend this in a way, too.
You can choose to ignore this, but it is an actual pattern.
I choose to ignore our best writers because they are terrible at their jobs. The giants have sucked because they haven’t been able to identify talent. Started with Reese, was raised to the nth degree under Gettleman, and hasn’t gotten better with Schoen.
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Fact is no one knows nothing. Everyone is talking out of their ass to be the first to say they were right.
What we do know from past experience is that this organization likes to float trial balloons. And we have started to see a steady diet of pro-Jones stories. Sy's comments help bookend this in a way, too.
You can choose to ignore this, but it is an actual pattern.
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In comment 16391800 JT039 said:
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Over the last two days of people saying the same thing over and over.
I've got the Kleenex for you when you're ready.
Nobody has more than you on this site for sure. Not sure you recovered from the last beat down Eric gave you. Glad to see your doing well.
Remember when you got the wrong end of so many asskickings that you ran away and changed your handle?
Are you JonesI’ first or second cousin?
They didn't play against Daniel Jones you fucking nitwit. They played against the Giants defense, and DJ played against their respective defenses.
The fact that someone as dumb as you can get internet access is equally alarming.
Stripping out the running piece of QBR, Jones was 13th in QBR passing.
He was 25th in YPA, 21st in ANY/A, last in IAY (intended air yardage), and last in CAY (completed air yardage).
These are not flattering results from a passing perspective. In fact, Jones's has basically repeated many of those numbers throughout his career.
In other words, a very good set of training wheels by Dabka and they managed Jones beautifully.
So, the bet made by Schoen in March of 2023 was that once the training wheels were removed and weapons added, Jones's growth would accelerate, and the money would be a bargain vis-a-vis the rest of the league.
Obviously, that never materialized as the entire offensive structure imploded. And this is where the great divide re-emerges.
Was Jones part of that implosion? Or was Jones just a victim of it?
We are hearing more and more that Jints Central has decided once again Jones is a victim and he needs even more time to show he can operate without training wheels.
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In comment 16391823 christian said:
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In comment 16391800 JT039 said:
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Over the last two days of people saying the same thing over and over.
I've got the Kleenex for you when you're ready.
Nobody has more than you on this site for sure. Not sure you recovered from the last beat down Eric gave you. Glad to see your doing well.
Remember when you got the wrong end of so many asskickings that you ran away and changed your handle?
Christian is a big boy, well not really, he doesn’t need you to run to his defense. I know you were bullied in high school and haven’t recovered from it - but he can pick his own fights and usually lose them on his own.
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where they scored 1 offensive TD and Jones averaged 5 yards per attempt.
Yep and that performance was raved as efficient here. Whereas Taylor had the same performance the next year and was shot down due to a lack of scoring by the Jones believers.
Maybe if Taylor was as hard-working and as good of a leader as Jones, he'd have motivated someone on the defense to score.
Did you ever think about that? Did ya?
I'm not kidding - Schoen did this last week during on interview on NFL Radio at the Senior Bowl.
Jones was in the building by 6:30, he's working harder than everyone, the trainers are struggling to keep up with Jones, he could be with Seal Team Six if he wasn't a football player, etc.
Seal Team Six was made up, btw... ;)
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must suck. How could they possibly have lost to what you guys consider to be the worst starting QB in the league in Daniel Jones? This site has become nothing but a pitch fork holding mob aniti Jones mafia. Its actually alarming.
They didn't play against Daniel Jones you fucking nitwit. They played against the Giants defense, and DJ played against their respective defenses.
The fact that someone as dumb as you can get internet access is equally alarming.
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In comment 16391563 Sy'56 said:
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whether I agree with it being right is not relevant
NYG isn't taking a QB early
Sy- even if one of the top 3 fall to 5 or 6th?
- you can't see any scenario of them trading up for one?
- how about the trading into the late 1st or early 2nd?
The top 3 may not be what you think it will be
So I'm not really sure how to answer that question. I don't see any sort of aggressive move for a quarterback. That includes taking one at 6, and that includes a trade back into round 1. Staying put or a small trade up in round 2? I can see it.
DJ stories on St. Patrick's Day is too much 8/shamrocks for me.
Outside of Jack Stroud and Eightshamrocks and Ryan - are there that many posters defending him?
Are you JonesI’ first or second cousin?
I must confess. Of all the members of the DJFC, Shamrocks is my favorite these days.
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In comment 16391840 Eightshamrocks said:
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must suck. How could they possibly have lost to what you guys consider to be the worst starting QB in the league in Daniel Jones? This site has become nothing but a pitch fork holding mob aniti Jones mafia. Its actually alarming.
They didn't play against Daniel Jones you fucking nitwit. They played against the Giants defense, and DJ played against their respective defenses.
The fact that someone as dumb as you can get internet access is equally alarming.
No nitwit. According to you Jones is so terrible he can't win against the good teams, right? I just pointed out three good teams he beat as the starting QB. So there goes another false narrative.
If you ever managed to conjure an intelligent thought in your hollow little skull, it would quickly die of loneliness.
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He's 22-36-1 in his career. He's had 2 neck injuries. He's had an ACL. He's only had 1 season (2022) where he didn't miss a game due to injury.
Outside of Jack Stroud and Eightshamrocks and Ryan - are there that many posters defending him?
It was a response to Eightshamrocks entering the thread. Must be exhausting.
And Daniel Jones has lost to Taylor Heinecke, Teddy Bridgwater, Baker Mayfield, Mitchell Trubisky, Justin Fields, Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Geno Smith and Cooper Rush.
It was a response to Eightshamrocks entering the thread. Must be exhausting.
Yeah I don’t get it either. But I also don’t get the 5-6 poster who say the same thing in every thread degrading him either. That is just as exhausting.
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In comment 16391848 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 16391840 Eightshamrocks said:
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must suck. How could they possibly have lost to what you guys consider to be the worst starting QB in the league in Daniel Jones? This site has become nothing but a pitch fork holding mob aniti Jones mafia. Its actually alarming.
They didn't play against Daniel Jones you fucking nitwit. They played against the Giants defense, and DJ played against their respective defenses.
The fact that someone as dumb as you can get internet access is equally alarming.
No nitwit. According to you Jones is so terrible he can't win against the good teams, right? I just pointed out three good teams he beat as the starting QB. So there goes another false narrative.
If you ever managed to conjure an intelligent thought in your hollow little skull, it would quickly die of loneliness.
You know someone doesn't have a comeback in a debate when they go straight to insults
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Fact is no one knows nothing. Everyone is talking out of their ass to be the first to say they were right.
What we do know from past experience is that this organization likes to float trial balloons. And we have started to see a steady diet of pro-Jones stories. Sy's comments help bookend this in a way, too.
You can choose to ignore this, but it is an actual pattern.
I doubt the Giants suddenly figured out subterfuge. This is the same crew that made it abundantly clear that they needed (and planned) to sign Jones in order to franchise Barkley a year ago. Nothing like telling a player's agent there's a hard deadline at which time you NEED to have an agreement done. Really helps out with leverage.
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must suck. How could they possibly have lost to what you guys consider to be the worst starting QB in the league in Daniel Jones? This site has become nothing but a pitch fork holding mob aniti Jones mafia. Its actually alarming.
And Daniel Jones has lost to Taylor Heinecke, Teddy Bridgwater, Baker Mayfield, Mitchell Trubisky, Justin Fields, Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Geno Smith and Cooper Rush.
Yeah but that was someone else's fault.
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must suck. How could they possibly have lost to what you guys consider to be the worst starting QB in the league in Daniel Jones? This site has become nothing but a pitch fork holding mob aniti Jones mafia. Its actually alarming.
And Daniel Jones has lost to Taylor Heinecke, Teddy Bridgwater, Baker Mayfield, Mitchell Trubisky, Justin Fields, Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Geno Smith and Cooper Rush.
2) Do they expect Jones to be ready for the start of the season?
3) If the answer to one or both is no, who are they targeting as the backup? That person ends up as the defacto starter potentially, so it's kind of a big deal/
4) Do we think they keep DeVito as #3? I think his end to the season probably protected against another team grabbing off the PS. The emotions of us fans with him was like a roller coaster, but he may not be a bad option at least for camp and as insurance in case we need a 3rd QB
And he has beaten about half those guys as well, so what is your point?
And Aaron Rodgers has beaten Daniel Jones, he threw 4 tds in a a game where Jones threw 3 INTs.
Daniel was predictably hurt the time the Ravens beat the Giants.
Trevor Lawrence will probably beat Daniel Jones next year.
BTW, in those "wins" Jones averaged 197 yards per game and 1 TD per game. He really beat them.
What was your point again?
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In comment 16391857 Eightshamrocks said:
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In comment 16391848 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 16391840 Eightshamrocks said:
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must suck. How could they possibly have lost to what you guys consider to be the worst starting QB in the league in Daniel Jones? This site has become nothing but a pitch fork holding mob aniti Jones mafia. Its actually alarming.
They didn't play against Daniel Jones you fucking nitwit. They played against the Giants defense, and DJ played against their respective defenses.
The fact that someone as dumb as you can get internet access is equally alarming.
No nitwit. According to you Jones is so terrible he can't win against the good teams, right? I just pointed out three good teams he beat as the starting QB. So there goes another false narrative.
If you ever managed to conjure an intelligent thought in your hollow little skull, it would quickly die of loneliness.
You know someone doesn't have a comeback in a debate when they go straight to insults
You literally aren't smart enough to have a conversation with. And don't kid yourself, this isn't a debate any more than flat earthers are engaged in a "debate."
I have facts. You have hope.
I've got the Kleenex for you when you're ready.
Nobody has more than you on this site for sure. Not sure you recovered from the last beat down Eric gave you. Glad to see your doing well.
Remember when you got the wrong end of so many asskickings that you ran away and changed your handle?
Christian is a big boy, well not really, he doesn’t need you to run to his defense. I know you were bullied in high school and haven’t recovered from it - but he can pick his own fights and usually lose them on his own.
Not for nothing, high school was pretty killer for me. Hot Summer nights in SoCal, blasting Morrissey, drinking the world's cheapest vodka mixed with Dr. Pepper. Striking out with not one but two girls both named Blanca Flores.
We used to start fights with the rich white kids across town just to make fun of their Air Jordans.
Fresh cut fades, crisp Vegan docs, cuffed jeans. Damn, you got me all nostalgic.
We shall see. If Schoen and Daboll are indeed willing to ride the Jones train in 2024, you pretty much have to get to playoffs to survive.
I’m not sure whether this organization has a legitimate vision and plan at this point. I’ll remain careful of assumptions but it looks bleak.
Steelers just made the playoffs with a shit show offense. Keep the other team's offense off the field and maybe even give your own offense a short field to work with...amazing.
Do you think DJ would have played a little bit better second half this season thx to a defense forcing 2 turnovers every week? Do you think maybe giving a QB more "outs" like Pitt has done since the stone ages helps that QB develop?
Nah, never. Forget the stupid damned QB for one second. Forget the WRs and RBs. The Giants enter these street fights with no big fat tough guys, year in year out. THAT MATTERS.
Need a better plan that that because there is a good chance someone other than DJ will need to play due to injury or performance. Good teams have a Plan B.
Matt, this is lost on multiple posters.
The fact is that nobody anywhere, and certainly not on the site where one could fit the total actual football acumen and experience on the head of a pin, has any clue what Jones' upside is because nobody anywhere has ever seen him play behind and even halfway competent offensive line. Because he never has. And nobody has ever seen him play with the kind of big-play receivers that every other good QB in the NFL has. At least Schoen and Daboll work with the guy every day (and whose careers are dependent on the decisions they make) believe that he at least has the tools to succeed.
And just for the record, Eli was 9-26 in his final three years with this team and don't give me that shit about how he was done at the end of his career as 2018 (when the Giants were 5-11) was actually one of the best years of Elis career. It's a team game and if the team around you is the shits ...
Steelers just made the playoffs with a shit show offense. Keep the other team's offense off the field and maybe even give your own offense a short field to work with...amazing.
Do you think DJ would have played a little bit better second half this season thx to a defense forcing 2 turnovers every week? Do you think maybe giving a QB more "outs" like Pitt has done since the stone ages helps that QB develop?
Nah, never. Forget the stupid damned QB for one second. Forget the WRs and RBs. The Giants enter these street fights with no big fat tough guys, year in year out. THAT MATTERS.
If we do all this we don’t need to pay Jones 41m. This is what you are missing. We don’t have to have Jones is if he needs everything around him to go well. He’s oft injured, expensive and not good. We are sick of excuses and the Pollyanna nonsense.
I’m not interested in a 10 year trial plan to see if Jones will stay healthy and perform better with pro bowl caliber talent around him when that becomes impossible due to QB contract cap deficits.
Steelers just made the playoffs with a shit show offense. Keep the other team's offense off the field and maybe even give your own offense a short field to work with...amazing.
Do you think DJ would have played a little bit better second half this season thx to a defense forcing 2 turnovers every week? Do you think maybe giving a QB more "outs" like Pitt has done since the stone ages helps that QB develop?
The Steelers aren't paying their QB $40 million per year. In fact, in 2023 the total cap dollars for the Steelers at the QB, RB and WR positions COMBINED was roughly $39 million.
16
12
22
20
17
16
12
10
That's an average of 16 points per game. That's pretty good. In the losses they averaged 29 points per game (not accounting for any defensive tds by the other team). The problem is in the wins the offense averaged 24 points per game (not accounting for defensive scores). In losses they averaged only 18 points per game.
Relying on a good defense to carry a mediocre offense isn't sustainable in the vacuum of an individual season, let a lone season to season, see 2016/2017.
The fact is that nobody anywhere, and certainly not on the site where one could fit the total actual football acumen and experience on the head of a pin, has any clue what Jones' upside is because nobody anywhere has ever seen him play behind and even halfway competent offensive line. Because he never has. And nobody has ever seen him play with the kind of big-play receivers that every other good QB in the NFL has. At least Schoen and Daboll work with the guy every day (and whose careers are dependent on the decisions they make) believe that he at least has the tools to succeed.
And just for the record, Eli was 9-26 in his final three years with this team and don't give me that shit about how he was done at the end of his career as 2018 (when the Giants were 5-11) was actually one of the best years of Elis career. It's a team game and if the team around you is the shits ...
If Eli wasn't done in 2018, then why did the morons at 1925 Giants Drive replace him after 2 games the next season?
What really is shocking is you put down the racing sheets just to post this insightful nugget for us.
The fact is that nobody anywhere, and certainly not on the site where one could fit the total actual football acumen and experience on the head of a pin, has any clue what Jones' upside is because nobody anywhere has ever seen him play behind and even halfway competent offensive line. Because he never has. And nobody has ever seen him play with the kind of big-play receivers that every other good QB in the NFL has. At least Schoen and Daboll work with the guy every day (and whose careers are dependent on the decisions they make) believe that he at least has the tools to succeed.
And just for the record, Eli was 9-26 in his final three years with this team and don't give me that shit about how he was done at the end of his career as 2018 (when the Giants were 5-11) was actually one of the best years of Elis career. It's a team game and if the team around you is the shits ...
I'm sure theres context behind those thoughts, as no other team in the league was going to pay him 40 million.
It's year 6 the "we don't know his upside" theory has sailed. We've seen it, it's mediocre. Comparing late 30's Eli to prime Daniel Jones is like comparing Blake Lively to the current day looks of Dolly Parton.
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I am a little shocked - well more like really shocked -that there has barely been any reaction to SY56s comment that NFL scouts that he talked to at the Senior Bowl don't think Jones is the problem. I mean doesn't that kind of blow a rather large hole in the whole Jones sucks agenda especially coming from someone you calls usually regard with almost complete and utter reverence.
The fact is that nobody anywhere, and certainly not on the site where one could fit the total actual football acumen and experience on the head of a pin, has any clue what Jones' upside is because nobody anywhere has ever seen him play behind and even halfway competent offensive line. Because he never has. And nobody has ever seen him play with the kind of big-play receivers that every other good QB in the NFL has. At least Schoen and Daboll work with the guy every day (and whose careers are dependent on the decisions they make) believe that he at least has the tools to succeed.
And just for the record, Eli was 9-26 in his final three years with this team and don't give me that shit about how he was done at the end of his career as 2018 (when the Giants were 5-11) was actually one of the best years of Elis career. It's a team game and if the team around you is the shits ...
If Eli wasn't done in 2018, then why did the morons at 1925 Giants Drive replace him after 2 games the next season?
What really is shocking is you put down the racing sheets just to post this insightful nugget for us.
Because you idiot they were 1-3, wanted to move from Eli and had drafted a QB in the first round that year! It's what NFL teams do.
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The Giants' culture is based on trying to prove themselves right, protecting their own jobs, and finding a scapegoat when things inevitably go wrong.
It's getting harder and harder to root for this organization.
I am curious when you have the epiphany that Schoen isn't in some untenable position trying to manage Mara.
But that he's actually the perfect outside GM voice Mara was looking for and he fits right into longstanding ethos.
I've mentioned before my feeling that on the Jones issue Schoen either likes Jones as a starter or was unable to convince Mara he wasn't starter level. Either scenario is a failure for Schoen.
My cutoff with Schoen is this draft. If Sy is right and the Giants don't draft a QB early, Schoen gets a vote of 'no confidence' from me.
If you play it out, going into 2024 with Jones is a grim scenario:
1. The Giants win 4-6 games
2. Daboll is fired
3. Giants hire a Ben Johnson/Bobby Slovik type flavor of the month OC, essentially rehashing Daboll
4. We're only one year away from Arch Manning possibly entering the 2026 draft, so let's stick with Jones one more year. Win 4-6 games in 2025.
5. And if Arch decides to go back to Texas for his senior year, no big deal - we have Jones under contract through 2026 anyway. Win 4-6 games in 2026.
6. Ben Johnson/Bobby Slovik is fired after 2026, along with Schoen.
7. We sell out for Arch in the 2027 draft.
Hey man, I was 16. We'd get the biggest Dr. Pepper fountain soda at Panda Express and the cheapest pint of vodka in a plastic bottle at the liquor store that sold to kids.
I didn't say these nights didn't turn out poorly.
In fact, I cannot drink Dr. Pepper nor vodka to this day.
The fact is that nobody anywhere, and certainly not on the site where one could fit the total actual football acumen and experience on the head of a pin, has any clue what Jones' upside is because nobody anywhere has ever seen him play behind and even halfway competent offensive line. Because he never has. And nobody has ever seen him play with the kind of big-play receivers that every other good QB in the NFL has. At least Schoen and Daboll work with the guy every day (and whose careers are dependent on the decisions they make) believe that he at least has the tools to succeed.
And just for the record, Eli was 9-26 in his final three years with this team and don't give me that shit about how he was done at the end of his career as 2018 (when the Giants were 5-11) was actually one of the best years of Elis career. It's a team game and if the team around you is the shits ...
The Giants started 1-7 in 2018 and Eli did not play well. He ranked bottom 3rd in DVOA and QBR. He also did not look good via the eye test and most posters recognized this. He racked up some stats in the final 5-6 games once everything was done and dusted.
Some QBs decline at age 36, it isn't some shocking discovery.
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In comment 16391966 Snorkels said:
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I am a little shocked - well more like really shocked -that there has barely been any reaction to SY56s comment that NFL scouts that he talked to at the Senior Bowl don't think Jones is the problem. I mean doesn't that kind of blow a rather large hole in the whole Jones sucks agenda especially coming from someone you calls usually regard with almost complete and utter reverence.
The fact is that nobody anywhere, and certainly not on the site where one could fit the total actual football acumen and experience on the head of a pin, has any clue what Jones' upside is because nobody anywhere has ever seen him play behind and even halfway competent offensive line. Because he never has. And nobody has ever seen him play with the kind of big-play receivers that every other good QB in the NFL has. At least Schoen and Daboll work with the guy every day (and whose careers are dependent on the decisions they make) believe that he at least has the tools to succeed.
And just for the record, Eli was 9-26 in his final three years with this team and don't give me that shit about how he was done at the end of his career as 2018 (when the Giants were 5-11) was actually one of the best years of Elis career. It's a team game and if the team around you is the shits ...
If Eli wasn't done in 2018, then why did the morons at 1925 Giants Drive replace him after 2 games the next season?
What really is shocking is you put down the racing sheets just to post this insightful nugget for us.
Because you idiot they were 1-3, wanted to move from Eli and had drafted a QB in the first round that year! It's what NFL teams do.
1-3 after two games?
Some of the pollyannas are fond of saying this is real life, not Madden...and they're right. A 13 year old would show more intelligence running a Madden franchise.
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In comment 16391966 Snorkels said:
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I am a little shocked - well more like really shocked -that there has barely been any reaction to SY56s comment that NFL scouts that he talked to at the Senior Bowl don't think Jones is the problem. I mean doesn't that kind of blow a rather large hole in the whole Jones sucks agenda especially coming from someone you calls usually regard with almost complete and utter reverence.
The fact is that nobody anywhere, and certainly not on the site where one could fit the total actual football acumen and experience on the head of a pin, has any clue what Jones' upside is because nobody anywhere has ever seen him play behind and even halfway competent offensive line. Because he never has. And nobody has ever seen him play with the kind of big-play receivers that every other good QB in the NFL has. At least Schoen and Daboll work with the guy every day (and whose careers are dependent on the decisions they make) believe that he at least has the tools to succeed.
And just for the record, Eli was 9-26 in his final three years with this team and don't give me that shit about how he was done at the end of his career as 2018 (when the Giants were 5-11) was actually one of the best years of Elis career. It's a team game and if the team around you is the shits ...
If Eli wasn't done in 2018, then why did the morons at 1925 Giants Drive replace him after 2 games the next season?
What really is shocking is you put down the racing sheets just to post this insightful nugget for us.
Because you idiot they were 1-3, wanted to move from Eli and had drafted a QB in the first round that year! It's what NFL teams do.
I'm the idiot? You just said 2018 was one of Eli's best years. So why did they draft a new QB and replace him after just 2 more games if he was playing at his best? And maybe they were 1-3 because its a "team game" as you said above and the others on the roster didn't pick up Eli.
And by the way, the team is usually about 1-3 every Sept for the past decade. Its how this franchise operates...lost.
How much time do you give a WR? OL? Corner? Etc.
Thanks in advance.
Both were instances of stupidly changing horses in midstream, and Schoen wasn't around for the transition from Eli. John and Chris were, though.
The owner has a tin ear.
Both were instances of stupidly changing horses in midstream, and Schoen wasn't around for the transition from Eli. John and Chris were, though.
JonC reported Jones was a late pivot because they felt the pressure of addressing QB. You could argue they may feel similar pressure this year.
Most fans didn't even want a QB drafted in 2019 too, fans are much more vocal about wanting QB this year.
Steelers just made the playoffs with a shit show offense. Keep the other team's offense off the field and maybe even give your own offense a short field to work with...amazing.
Do you think DJ would have played a little bit better second half this season thx to a defense forcing 2 turnovers every week? Do you think maybe giving a QB more "outs" like Pitt has done since the stone ages helps that QB develop?
Nah, never. Forget the stupid damned QB for one second. Forget the WRs and RBs. The Giants enter these street fights with no big fat tough guys, year in year out. THAT MATTERS.
The Steelers had NO chance of winning the Super Bowl. None. Zero. Zilch.
The standards around here absolutely suck. The team has been bad for so long that some of you act like sneaking into the playoffs in a league where almost half the teams make it these days is some kind of massive achievement. Plenty of bad to not to good teams will be making the playoffs in this new format. That should not be the goal. The goal is to win a championship. And you know why the Steelers were good enough to sneak into a watered down playoffs but not nearly good enough to win a title? Because their QB situation sucked ass. That’s why. Raise your damn standards
How much time do you give a WR? OL? Corner? Etc.
Thanks in advance.
bw: you are asking a question that simply has no answer. Everybody develops at a different rate. Think of Corey Webster who looked like a bust until his 4th year. Tiki didn't really take off until his 6th.
And lets be very honest Jones is a very atypical case. My case is the Giants felt right away that he had some tools which is why they have kept him around. Unfortunately for him he's never had a very good team around him so that they could see what he really was capable of.
Jones fucking blew in 2020 as well. People just didn't want to admit it.
Jones fucking blew in 2020 as well. People just didn't want to admit it.
They can try that slant, but the fan base ain’t buying it.
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how about the Giants field a good defense and OL one day soon? Do you all think that would help the QB and subsequently help the team win more games?
Steelers just made the playoffs with a shit show offense. Keep the other team's offense off the field and maybe even give your own offense a short field to work with...amazing.
Do you think DJ would have played a little bit better second half this season thx to a defense forcing 2 turnovers every week? Do you think maybe giving a QB more "outs" like Pitt has done since the stone ages helps that QB develop?
Nah, never. Forget the stupid damned QB for one second. Forget the WRs and RBs. The Giants enter these street fights with no big fat tough guys, year in year out. THAT MATTERS.
The Steelers had NO chance of winning the Super Bowl. None. Zero. Zilch.
The standards around here absolutely suck. The team has been bad for so long that some of you act like sneaking into the playoffs in a league where almost half the teams make it these days is some kind of massive achievement. Plenty of bad to not to good teams will be making the playoffs in this new format. That should not be the goal. The goal is to win a championship. And you know why the Steelers were good enough to sneak into a watered down playoffs but not nearly good enough to win a title? Because their QB situation sucked ass. That’s why. Raise your damn standards
BBS: You missed the point entirely! In fact you may have made our case: The Steelers made the playoffs because they had a good defence. In 2022 the Giants made the playoffs even though they had a subpar OL, the 32nd ranked WRs in the league and a not particularly good defence. Hmm; what's that other major part of an NFL team!!
77% from Duggan's poll wanting to move off Jones.
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In comment 16391783 Go Terps said:
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The Giants' culture is based on trying to prove themselves right, protecting their own jobs, and finding a scapegoat when things inevitably go wrong.
It's getting harder and harder to root for this organization.
I am curious when you have the epiphany that Schoen isn't in some untenable position trying to manage Mara.
But that he's actually the perfect outside GM voice Mara was looking for and he fits right into longstanding ethos.
I've mentioned before my feeling that on the Jones issue Schoen either likes Jones as a starter or was unable to convince Mara he wasn't starter level. Either scenario is a failure for Schoen.
My cutoff with Schoen is this draft. If Sy is right and the Giants don't draft a QB early, Schoen gets a vote of 'no confidence' from me.
If you play it out, going into 2024 with Jones is a grim scenario:
1. The Giants win 4-6 games
2. Daboll is fired
3. Giants hire a Ben Johnson/Bobby Slovik type flavor of the month OC, essentially rehashing Daboll
4. We're only one year away from Arch Manning possibly entering the 2026 draft, so let's stick with Jones one more year. Win 4-6 games in 2025.
5. And if Arch decides to go back to Texas for his senior year, no big deal - we have Jones under contract through 2026 anyway. Win 4-6 games in 2026.
6. Ben Johnson/Bobby Slovik is fired after 2026, along with Schoen.
7. We sell out for Arch in the 2027 draft.
This is exactly right. I believe the seemingly simultaneous prognostications on DJ are a well orchestrated set of preliminary fire to provide the proper cover for the real crime that is about to be perpetrated: I fully expect them to restructure the DJ contract so that they push more of the cap hit further into the future, adding at least another year of agony to our glorious Giants fandom. And at least one more full set of coaching casualties to be attributed to Typhoid DJ. Thereby self-fulfilling the prophecy that Terps is outlining here...
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In comment 16391819 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16391783 Go Terps said:
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The Giants' culture is based on trying to prove themselves right, protecting their own jobs, and finding a scapegoat when things inevitably go wrong.
It's getting harder and harder to root for this organization.
I am curious when you have the epiphany that Schoen isn't in some untenable position trying to manage Mara.
But that he's actually the perfect outside GM voice Mara was looking for and he fits right into longstanding ethos.
I've mentioned before my feeling that on the Jones issue Schoen either likes Jones as a starter or was unable to convince Mara he wasn't starter level. Either scenario is a failure for Schoen.
My cutoff with Schoen is this draft. If Sy is right and the Giants don't draft a QB early, Schoen gets a vote of 'no confidence' from me.
If you play it out, going into 2024 with Jones is a grim scenario:
1. The Giants win 4-6 games
2. Daboll is fired
3. Giants hire a Ben Johnson/Bobby Slovik type flavor of the month OC, essentially rehashing Daboll
4. We're only one year away from Arch Manning possibly entering the 2026 draft, so let's stick with Jones one more year. Win 4-6 games in 2025.
5. And if Arch decides to go back to Texas for his senior year, no big deal - we have Jones under contract through 2026 anyway. Win 4-6 games in 2026.
6. Ben Johnson/Bobby Slovik is fired after 2026, along with Schoen.
7. We sell out for Arch in the 2027 draft.
This is exactly right. I believe the seemingly simultaneous prognostications on DJ are a well orchestrated set of preliminary fire to provide the proper cover for the real crime that is about to be perpetrated: I fully expect them to restructure the DJ contract so that they push more of the cap hit further into the future, adding at least another year of agony to our glorious Giants fandom. And at least one more full set of coaching casualties to be attributed to Typhoid DJ. Thereby self-fulfilling the prophecy that Terps is outlining here...
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In comment 16391956 djm said:
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how about the Giants field a good defense and OL one day soon? Do you all think that would help the QB and subsequently help the team win more games?
Steelers just made the playoffs with a shit show offense. Keep the other team's offense off the field and maybe even give your own offense a short field to work with...amazing.
Do you think DJ would have played a little bit better second half this season thx to a defense forcing 2 turnovers every week? Do you think maybe giving a QB more "outs" like Pitt has done since the stone ages helps that QB develop?
Nah, never. Forget the stupid damned QB for one second. Forget the WRs and RBs. The Giants enter these street fights with no big fat tough guys, year in year out. THAT MATTERS.
The Steelers had NO chance of winning the Super Bowl. None. Zero. Zilch.
The standards around here absolutely suck. The team has been bad for so long that some of you act like sneaking into the playoffs in a league where almost half the teams make it these days is some kind of massive achievement. Plenty of bad to not to good teams will be making the playoffs in this new format. That should not be the goal. The goal is to win a championship. And you know why the Steelers were good enough to sneak into a watered down playoffs but not nearly good enough to win a title? Because their QB situation sucked ass. That’s why. Raise your damn standards
BBS: You missed the point entirely! In fact you may have made our case: The Steelers made the playoffs because they had a good defence. In 2022 the Giants made the playoffs even though they had a subpar OL, the 32nd ranked WRs in the league and a not particularly good defence. Hmm; what's that other major part of an NFL team!!
Again, almost half the league makes the playoffs. We are going to be seeing teams with below .500 records make the playoffs. That is NOT an impressive accomplishment. You Jones fan boys act like they won the damn Super Bowl in ‘22. It’s pathetic. Do you think Steelers fans give one single shit that the Steelers made the playoffs? I know plenty of them, they don’t give a shit because they know it means nothing. They know they aren’t winning anything until they upgrade the QB position. Making the playoffs is not the goal. Steelers fans understand this. Giants fans on the other hand want to put the ‘22 season into the Hall of Fame as one of the greatest seasons in the history of the game. Pathetic
SO while some on this Board want to characterize DJ supporters as idiots and/or blind loyalists to the cult of DJ, at least some front office people in the NFL agree with them.
If that happens I’ll also be dating Blake Lively and Sydney Sweeney at the same time
SO while some on this Board want to characterize DJ supporters as idiots and/or blind loyalists to the cult of DJ, at least some front office people in the NFL agree with them.
We’ve had front offices trade up to take Mitch Tribusky, not sure that’s the indictment you think it is.
Why worry about something that's never come close to happening in 60 games across five years.
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If Jones goes for 3,800 yards 28 TD passes and 10 int's to go along with 450 yards rushing and 6 TD's in an 11-6 season
Why worry about something that's never come close to happening in 60 games across five years.
Right?
SO while some on this Board want to characterize DJ supporters as idiots and/or blind loyalists to the cult of DJ, at least some front office people in the NFL agree with them.
It’s always good to get intel and opinion from elsewhere.
One posit for those scouts however is how many of them would stake their future existence as executive or being in NFL on Jones. The vantage and stakes are different. This is really more about what Daboll and Schoen do. They ride with Jones and get middling results, they are going to get Ryan Pace/Matt Nagy’d even if they come back and draft a QB in 2025.
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If Jones goes for 3,800 yards 28 TD passes and 10 int's to go along with 450 yards rushing and 6 TD's in an 11-6 season
Why worry about something that's never come close to happening in 60 games across five years.
There’s also no context. Not “the” problem doesn’t mean they don’t consider him one of the problems.
So you want people to admit they're wrong based on a fantasy scenario.
Are you going to admit you're wrong based on what's actually happened in real life?
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In comment 16391956 djm said:
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how about the Giants field a good defense and OL one day soon? Do you all think that would help the QB and subsequently help the team win more games?
Steelers just made the playoffs with a shit show offense. Keep the other team's offense off the field and maybe even give your own offense a short field to work with...amazing.
Do you think DJ would have played a little bit better second half this season thx to a defense forcing 2 turnovers every week? Do you think maybe giving a QB more "outs" like Pitt has done since the stone ages helps that QB develop?
Nah, never. Forget the stupid damned QB for one second. Forget the WRs and RBs. The Giants enter these street fights with no big fat tough guys, year in year out. THAT MATTERS.
The Steelers had NO chance of winning the Super Bowl. None. Zero. Zilch.
The standards around here absolutely suck. The team has been bad for so long that some of you act like sneaking into the playoffs in a league where almost half the teams make it these days is some kind of massive achievement. Plenty of bad to not to good teams will be making the playoffs in this new format. That should not be the goal. The goal is to win a championship. And you know why the Steelers were good enough to sneak into a watered down playoffs but not nearly good enough to win a title? Because their QB situation sucked ass. That’s why. Raise your damn standards
BBS: You missed the point entirely! In fact you may have made our case: The Steelers made the playoffs because they had a good defence. In 2022 the Giants made the playoffs even though they had a subpar OL, the 32nd ranked WRs in the league and a not particularly good defence. Hmm; what's that other major part of an NFL team!!
Our?
I will be happy to be wrong and have no problem admitting it.
But lets be honest, that is the production that should be expected at his contract level. You realize that right?
I hate to be this negative Jon and nobody wants a dramatic pivot away from DJ more than me, but I find it hard to believe that Schoen and Daboll can actually operate and field a competitive roster if DJ's cap hit is the sixth highest in the NFL this year. If they couldn't afford him under the Franchise Tag last year, how can they possibly afford to do so with a much higher hit this year? Sy's observation above feels very much like a smoking gun in this regard.
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In comment 16392104 Eightshamrocks said:
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If Jones goes for 3,800 yards 28 TD passes and 10 int's to go along with 450 yards rushing and 6 TD's in an 11-6 season
Why worry about something that's never come close to happening in 60 games across five years.
His rookie year numbers weren't that far off. Daboll needs to find that Daniel Jones, minus the fumbles.
"That" Daniel Jones doesn't exist. That Daniel Jones was a one-read quarterback getting spoonfed the plays from Shurmur against a league that was seeing him for the first time. It's been downhill every season since, except for 2022, which was also a one-read quarterback getting spoonfed and propped up from the offensive staff.
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If Jones goes for 3,800 yards 28 TD passes and 10 int's to go along with 450 yards rushing and 6 TD's in an 11-6 season where the Giants win a minimum of 1 playoff game? Do we get people on here admitting they were wrong about Jones, or will we get the double and people saying "we can finally trade him now". I think I already know the answer. The Jones haters won't give Jones any credit in such a scenario. You know why, because you guys won't want to admit you were wrong.
So you want people to admit they're wrong based on a fantasy scenario.
Are you going to admit you're wrong based on what's actually happened in real life?
Well even you would have to admit that Jones's rookie numbers are pretty close to my hypothetical scenario. Even you would have to admit that Joe Judge and Jason Garrett were the worst coaches at the worst time for Jone's development.
Wait, you want people to admit they “were wrong” by playing out your fantasy that has never happened before? Wtf? Intelligent people form their opinions based on actual data that has been presented. Unintelligent people form their opinions based on hopes and fantasies. Let’s table the Jones having a season he’s never had in his entire life until he actually does it, ok?
Apples to oranges comparisons. You and I look at Jones abilities through a different lens.
Amazing how the argument for keeping DJ is always "what if Jones does something he's never done in his career?"
The only time he's done something he's never done before was when he managed to not get hurt in 2022.
There’s also no context. Not “the” problem doesn’t mean they don’t consider him one of the problems.
That's one interpretation, but I would guess you're reading between the lines a bit more than I am.
Listen, I've moved on from Jones because regardless of whether he may or may not ever be good enough, he can't stay healthy. That much is a unequivocal data point that I think almost everyone should agree on.
My only point is that Sy's comment at least raises the possibility that there is a difference of opinion out there and that maybe it's not as cut and dried as the anti-DJ crowd suggests.
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In comment 16392104 Eightshamrocks said:
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If Jones goes for 3,800 yards 28 TD passes and 10 int's to go along with 450 yards rushing and 6 TD's in an 11-6 season where the Giants win a minimum of 1 playoff game? Do we get people on here admitting they were wrong about Jones, or will we get the double and people saying "we can finally trade him now". I think I already know the answer. The Jones haters won't give Jones any credit in such a scenario. You know why, because you guys won't want to admit you were wrong.
So you want people to admit they're wrong based on a fantasy scenario.
Are you going to admit you're wrong based on what's actually happened in real life?
Well even you would have to admit that Jones's rookie numbers are pretty close to my hypothetical scenario. Even you would have to admit that Joe Judge and Jason Garrett were the worst coaches at the worst time for Jone's development.
No, I wouldn't. I'd say that after five years of watching him it's pretty clear that of the 90 or so QBs on NFL rosters Daniel Jones ranks around the middle somewhere.
Just stop it already. This is all so fucking sad.
The organization still doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt, so I could also see this as being truthful and SY is plugged into scout circles.
I will patiently wait until the draft, if they do not draft a QB my excitement for next season will be near zero.
Call me a shitty fan, its going to take a shocking Daniel Jones performance the first few weeks to get me engaged into the season. Tired of the same old crap every year.
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If Jones goes for 3,800 yards 28 TD passes and 10 int's to go along with 450 yards rushing and 6 TD's in an 11-6 season where the Giants win a minimum of 1 playoff game? Do we get people on here admitting they were wrong about Jones, or will we get the double and people saying "we can finally trade him now". I think I already know the answer. The Jones haters won't give Jones any credit in such a scenario. You know why, because you guys won't want to admit you were wrong.
I will be happy to be wrong and have no problem admitting it.
But lets be honest, that is the production that should be expected at his contract level. You realize that right?
SO while some on this Board want to characterize DJ supporters as idiots and/or blind loyalists to the cult of DJ, at least some front office people in the NFL agree with them.
So these front office people should be pounding on Schoens door to try to trade for Jones then, right? How many of these front office guys do you honestly think would trade for Daniel Jones?
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In comment 16391978 ThomasG said:
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In comment 16391966 Snorkels said:
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I am a little shocked - well more like really shocked -that there has barely been any reaction to SY56s comment that NFL scouts that he talked to at the Senior Bowl don't think Jones is the problem. I mean doesn't that kind of blow a rather large hole in the whole Jones sucks agenda especially coming from someone you calls usually regard with almost complete and utter reverence.
The fact is that nobody anywhere, and certainly not on the site where one could fit the total actual football acumen and experience on the head of a pin, has any clue what Jones' upside is because nobody anywhere has ever seen him play behind and even halfway competent offensive line. Because he never has. And nobody has ever seen him play with the kind of big-play receivers that every other good QB in the NFL has. At least Schoen and Daboll work with the guy every day (and whose careers are dependent on the decisions they make) believe that he at least has the tools to succeed.
And just for the record, Eli was 9-26 in his final three years with this team and don't give me that shit about how he was done at the end of his career as 2018 (when the Giants were 5-11) was actually one of the best years of Elis career. It's a team game and if the team around you is the shits ...
If Eli wasn't done in 2018, then why did the morons at 1925 Giants Drive replace him after 2 games the next season?
What really is shocking is you put down the racing sheets just to post this insightful nugget for us.
Because you idiot they were 1-3, wanted to move from Eli and had drafted a QB in the first round that year! It's what NFL teams do.
I'm the idiot? You just said 2018 was one of Eli's best years. So why did they draft a new QB and replace him after just 2 more games if he was playing at his best? And maybe they were 1-3 because its a "team game" as you said above and the others on the roster didn't pick up Eli.
And by the way, the team is usually about 1-3 every Sept for the past decade. Its how this franchise operates...lost.
Come on Snorky baby...I know you're out there lurking.
I am waiting to here your logic for this at Jints Central.
Same odds as me not having a beer the rest of 2024.
This can't be a serious post. It just can't. This has to be a burner account.
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If Jones goes for 3,800 yards 28 TD passes and 10 int's to go along with 450 yards rushing and 6 TD's in an 11-6 season where the Giants win a minimum of 1 playoff game? Do we get people on here admitting they were wrong about Jones, or will we get the double and people saying "we can finally trade him now". I think I already know the answer. The Jones haters won't give Jones any credit in such a scenario. You know why, because you guys won't want to admit you were wrong.
Amazing how the argument for keeping DJ is always "what if Jones does something he's never done in his career?"
The only time he's done something he's never done before was when he managed to not get hurt in 2022.
I guess the answer of "what if" he basically doubled his normal production in the scenario above then the Giants should give him a $320M contract.
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If Jones goes for 3,800 yards 28 TD passes and 10 int's to go along with 450 yards rushing and 6 TD's in an 11-6 season where the Giants win a minimum of 1 playoff game? Do we get people on here admitting they were wrong about Jones, or will we get the double and people saying "we can finally trade him now". I think I already know the answer. The Jones haters won't give Jones any credit in such a scenario. You know why, because you guys won't want to admit you were wrong.
This can't be a serious post. It just can't. This has to be a burner account.
I mean it's by someone whose handle is 8 Rocks
As a starter? None. As a backup? Probably 5-10
Astonishly outlandish. Holy smokes.
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In comment 16392104 Eightshamrocks said:
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If Jones goes for 3,800 yards 28 TD passes and 10 int's to go along with 450 yards rushing and 6 TD's in an 11-6 season where the Giants win a minimum of 1 playoff game? Do we get people on here admitting they were wrong about Jones, or will we get the double and people saying "we can finally trade him now". I think I already know the answer. The Jones haters won't give Jones any credit in such a scenario. You know why, because you guys won't want to admit you were wrong.
This can't be a serious post. It just can't. This has to be a burner account.
I mean it's by someone whose handle is 8 Rocks
Well yeah, but with "sham" in the middle.
Daniel Jones is coming off an ACL which takes most guys 2 full years to recover from. I question his mobility this season.
Is the plan for DJ to be a pocket passer this year? Are you finding the best available backup or finding someone who fits what you want to do offensively this year?
If this regime wants to ensure they get 2 years at this, they better put ample resources into the OL.
I still think the OL hire will make or break Daboll this season. And I would not hitch my wagon to guys like McKethan, Ezeudu and I'll throw Evan Neal in there too.
They better do whatever it takes to make that OL competent this season if they stick with Jones.
Virtually all of us changed our view on Jones after the 2022 season from:
Categorically not wanting him to be on the roster to > wanting him to get another year or short term contract to prove he was the answer at QB.
If Jones has the season Shamwwow has described above, everyone will be pleasantly if not falling over surprised and pleased.
Astonishly outlandish. Holy smokes.
My guesses.
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Jones is going to produce almost 50% more yards and almost 100% more TDs than he did in his very best year with the team?
Astonishly outlandish. Holy smokes.
Look at his rookie year stats
When do the statute of limitations run out on looking back to Jones' rookie season? A season where he accumulated 60%+ of his TD production in 3 games, against some of the worst teams in the league Jets/Lions/WFT. Nor a season he has replicated since anyway.
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Jones is going to produce almost 50% more yards and almost 100% more TDs than he did in his very best year with the team?
Astonishly outlandish. Holy smokes.
Look at his rookie year stats
Four good games and 19 fumbles. Cool!
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In comment 16392181 NormanAllen_95 said:
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Jones is going to produce almost 50% more yards and almost 100% more TDs than he did in his very best year with the team?
Astonishly outlandish. Holy smokes.
Look at his rookie year stats
Four good games and 19 fumbles. Cool!
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In comment 16392195 Eightshamrocks said:
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In comment 16392181 NormanAllen_95 said:
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Jones is going to produce almost 50% more yards and almost 100% more TDs than he did in his very best year with the team?
Astonishly outlandish. Holy smokes.
Look at his rookie year stats
Four good games and 19 fumbles. Cool!
Focusing on the negatives I see
You have to be just trolling. Only explanation I can come up with. Or you are 12 (which would be offensive to 12 year olds).
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In comment 16392195 Eightshamrocks said:
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In comment 16392181 NormanAllen_95 said:
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Jones is going to produce almost 50% more yards and almost 100% more TDs than he did in his very best year with the team?
Astonishly outlandish. Holy smokes.
Look at his rookie year stats
Four good games and 19 fumbles. Cool!
Focusing on the negatives I see
Focusing on reality.
To call Daniel Jones mediocre would be an insult to mediocre QBs. It would be an improvement for him to reach the level of mediocrity.
You are an unserious poster on a burner account. It's pathetic.
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Jones is going to produce almost 50% more yards and almost 100% more TDs than he did in his very best year with the team?
Astonishly outlandish. Holy smokes.
Look at his rookie year stats
Okaaaay, a QBR of 55.7, almost an interception per game, sacked 3 times a game, an incredible 1.5 fumbles per game. 11 of those TDs came in 3 games (all losse...2 games of 4 TDs). HYes he compiled stats through the 8 games in a row he lost, chucking 15 of his 24 TDs, 9 INT, fumbling 12 times, and amassing 2350 of his 3000 yards.
It was a dolid rookie season, but not "good" by any standard.
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Jones is going to produce almost 50% more yards and almost 100% more TDs than he did in his very best year with the team?
Astonishly outlandish. Holy smokes.
Look at his rookie year stats
Virtually every promising rookie performance by Jones was against one of the bottom 5 defenses in the NFL. Look it up. The exception is vs the Eagles, who had an ok D. But the rest were against awful ones.
This is the same erroneous extrapolation as thinking the 2022 wins against the Vikings and Colts represented a new baseline.
And lets be very honest Jones is a very atypical case. My case is the Giants felt right away that he had some tools which is why they have kept him around. Unfortunately for him he's never had a very good team around him so that they could see what he really was capable of.
I don't find your honesty compelling because that's what I have heard for five years. That the Jones's situation is "atypical", or words to that effect. It's always been something. Just plug in the reason/excuse ______________ and more time is bought for #8.
JFC, five years is a long, long time for any player.
And let's really be honest here, for a player who just isn't a special talent. The typical adjectives we hear about Jones from the front office to coaches to players are the intangibles - hardworking, good teammate, good leader, etc. You rarely if ever here he can make every throw, he is great off-schedule, great at getting to his second reads, etc. Nothing.
I have never seen this situation in any sport, really. An organization that continues to try to salvage the career of one of the most average QBs/players I have ever seen. And that's being polite...
All I know it I will have absolutely no interest in Giants football in 2024 if we have another year of this shit. And I run a Giants website.
If Jones starts and the team gets smoked by the Cowboys in Week 1, the stands will be half empty in Week 2. Book it.
Here here!
But a lot of the base love those intangibles. They eat it up. I actually think they prefer those over real skills.
Other have said it. Daboll, Kafka, Schoen have recently been part of organizations with great QBs. Therefore, you would think they know exactly what you really need at QB to be a prolific team.
So, either they see things in Jones I just can't see (which is certainly possible) or we hired people who really aren't good at evaluating QB talent.
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Possible.
All I know it I will have absolutely no interest in Giants football in 2024 if we have another year of this shit. And I run a Giants website.
If Jones starts and the team gets smoked by the Cowboys in Week 1, the stands will be half empty in Week 2. Book it.
Here here!
Nobody's gonna make you watch. But please if the Giants do well don't come back!!
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And lets be very honest Jones is a very atypical case. My case is the Giants felt right away that he had some tools which is why they have kept him around. Unfortunately for him he's never had a very good team around him so that they could see what he really was capable of.
I don't find your honesty compelling because that's what I have heard for five years. That the Jones's situation is "atypical", or words to that effect. It's always been something. Just plug in the reason/excuse ______________ and more time is bought for #8.
JFC, five years is a long, long time for any player.
And let's really be honest here, for a player who just isn't a special talent. The typical adjectives we hear about Jones from the front office to coaches to players are the intangibles - hardworking, good teammate, good leader, etc. You rarely if ever here he can make every throw, he is great off-schedule, great at getting to his second reads, etc. Nothing.
I have never seen this situation in any sport, really. An organization that continues to try to salvage the career of one of the most average QBs/players I have ever seen. And that's being polite...
We can't seem to get it thru people's heads that nobody's getting another chance. Jones will be back in 2024 assuming he's healthy because professional football people think that given all the options he gives them the best chance to win games next year. In the meantime, they'll be looking for upgrades at the position and if they do find someone better he'll be gone in a heartbeat. That's the NFL. And why you people can't understand that the Giants can actually try and do the same things at the same time is beyond me!!
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In comment 16392041 Snorkels said:
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And lets be very honest Jones is a very atypical case. My case is the Giants felt right away that he had some tools which is why they have kept him around. Unfortunately for him he's never had a very good team around him so that they could see what he really was capable of.
I don't find your honesty compelling because that's what I have heard for five years. That the Jones's situation is "atypical", or words to that effect. It's always been something. Just plug in the reason/excuse ______________ and more time is bought for #8.
JFC, five years is a long, long time for any player.
And let's really be honest here, for a player who just isn't a special talent. The typical adjectives we hear about Jones from the front office to coaches to players are the intangibles - hardworking, good teammate, good leader, etc. You rarely if ever here he can make every throw, he is great off-schedule, great at getting to his second reads, etc. Nothing.
I have never seen this situation in any sport, really. An organization that continues to try to salvage the career of one of the most average QBs/players I have ever seen. And that's being polite...
We can't seem to get it thru people's heads that nobody's getting another chance. Jones will be back in 2024 assuming he's healthy because professional football people think that given all the options he gives them the best chance to win games next year. In the meantime, they'll be looking for upgrades at the position and if they do find someone better he'll be gone in a heartbeat. That's the NFL. And why you people can't understand that the Giants can actually try and do the same things at the same time is beyond me!!
We?
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In comment 16391256 Eric from BBI said:
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Possible.
All I know it I will have absolutely no interest in Giants football in 2024 if we have another year of this shit. And I run a Giants website.
If Jones starts and the team gets smoked by the Cowboys in Week 1, the stands will be half empty in Week 2. Book it.
Here here!
Nobody's gonna make you watch. But please if the Giants do well don't come back!!
What *do well*? What do you think you are watching when you watch 2022 Daniel Jones? Do you feel you are watching the next Unitas, Manning, brady, Allen, Elway , Mahomes? He ran an offense that was tailored to a limited passing QB. Please explain why you want to watch more of that? Do you think it is noble to win with less than middle of the road QB? You don't get extra points for winning with bad QB play. 2022 is the best you are going to get. The probability that Jones will become some awesome QB after what we have seen the first 5 years is infinitesimally small? You want to bank 2024 and then 2025 on such a small probability? Sticking with Jones makes no sense, and you have yet to offer a good reason as to why we should do it.
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When the biggest compliments a player is getting that they’re a hard worker and a nice guy-things I have seen people who follow the Giants say about Jones-it tells me that they’re not that good.
But a lot of the base love those intangibles. They eat it up. I actually think they prefer those over real skills.
Other have said it. Daboll, Kafka, Schoen have recently been part of organizations with great QBs. Therefore, you would think they know exactly what you really need at QB to be a prolific team.
So, either they see things in Jones I just can't see (which is certainly possible) or we hired people who really aren't good at evaluating QB talent.
someone else called him a workout warrior. I agree with that assessment. He looks great until he has to face live rounds.
Coach had Taylor and even DeVito making those choices. If they stay with him this year, DJ must make those improvements.
Coach had Taylor and even DeVito making those choices. If they stay with him this year, DJ must make those improvements.
why do you think he's not throwing outside the numbers with more frequency? it's not just *doesn't want to*, though it is clear he doesn't want to and often doesn't see it, but the other reason is he can't with consistency. Just like he can't throw touch fades with consistency. Just like he can't throw contested passes to the right leverage point with consistency. He's a good athlete who just throws the ball. He's a robot. He's not a QB who is a master at the finer points of passing.
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In comment 16392245 Mayo2JZ said:
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In comment 16391256 Eric from BBI said:
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Possible.
All I know it I will have absolutely no interest in Giants football in 2024 if we have another year of this shit. And I run a Giants website.
If Jones starts and the team gets smoked by the Cowboys in Week 1, the stands will be half empty in Week 2. Book it.
Here here!
Nobody's gonna make you watch. But please if the Giants do well don't come back!!
What *do well*? What do you think you are watching when you watch 2022 Daniel Jones? Do you feel you are watching the next Unitas, Manning, brady, Allen, Elway , Mahomes? He ran an offense that was tailored to a limited passing QB. Please explain why you want to watch more of that? Do you think it is noble to win with less than middle of the road QB? You don't get extra points for winning with bad QB play. 2022 is the best you are going to get. The probability that Jones will become some awesome QB after what we have seen the first 5 years is infinitesimally small? You want to bank 2024 and then 2025 on such a small probability? Sticking with Jones makes no sense, and you have yet to offer a good reason as to why we should do it.
What a stupid effing piece of moronic BS. I couldn't give a rat's ass how we win. Just win. What, we should give the 1986 and 1990 Super Bowls back because they were won mostly with defence. I have no idea what you were watching but 2022 was a great ride. Not overly talented team went out and battled their way to ten wins with Jones playing a huge part.
What a stupid effing piece of moronic BS. I couldn't give a rat's ass how we win. Just win. What, we should give the 1986 and 1990 Super Bowls back because they were won mostly with defence. I have no idea what you were watching but 2022 was a great ride. Not overly talented team went out and battled their way to ten wins with Jones playing a huge part.
2022 was clearly an outlier.
And you should care how we win because that determines if you have the ability to win long-term or if you will continue to lose more than win.
The term has been used plenty of times before and it still applies. 2022 was pyrite - fool's old.
Sean posted earlier that 77% of Giant fans in an Athletic poll want to move on from Jones. I think the real % is higher. I have a bunch of Giant fans in my life & with the exception of one, everyone is ready to turn the page on the Jones era.
The Giants can spin whatever they want, but I'm telling you...his first bad play or first 3 & out next fall...the vultures will be circling in MetLife. It's not going to be pretty between the boos, empty seats, & general apathy.
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In comment 16392262 Snorkels said:
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In comment 16392245 Mayo2JZ said:
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In comment 16391256 Eric from BBI said:
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Possible.
All I know it I will have absolutely no interest in Giants football in 2024 if we have another year of this shit. And I run a Giants website.
If Jones starts and the team gets smoked by the Cowboys in Week 1, the stands will be half empty in Week 2. Book it.
Here here!
Nobody's gonna make you watch. But please if the Giants do well don't come back!!
What *do well*? What do you think you are watching when you watch 2022 Daniel Jones? Do you feel you are watching the next Unitas, Manning, brady, Allen, Elway , Mahomes? He ran an offense that was tailored to a limited passing QB. Please explain why you want to watch more of that? Do you think it is noble to win with less than middle of the road QB? You don't get extra points for winning with bad QB play. 2022 is the best you are going to get. The probability that Jones will become some awesome QB after what we have seen the first 5 years is infinitesimally small? You want to bank 2024 and then 2025 on such a small probability? Sticking with Jones makes no sense, and you have yet to offer a good reason as to why we should do it.
What a stupid effing piece of moronic BS. I couldn't give a rat's ass how we win. Just win. What, we should give the 1986 and 1990 Super Bowls back because they were won mostly with defence. I have no idea what you were watching but 2022 was a great ride. Not overly talented team went out and battled their way to ten wins with Jones playing a huge part.
Sure, let's JUST WIN without any consideration about how to do it. let's become billionaires NOW, we don't need to think about how to earn a lot of money. Details don't matter. I have bad news for you, we're living in 2024. Football has changed. You're not winning shit with Daniel Jones and a 1986 strategy.
Can some people stop pretending we were like the '86 Giants? It's a little weird.
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What a stupid effing piece of moronic BS. I couldn't give a rat's ass how we win. Just win. What, we should give the 1986 and 1990 Super Bowls back because they were won mostly with defence. I have no idea what you were watching but 2022 was a great ride. Not overly talented team went out and battled their way to ten wins with Jones playing a huge part.
2022 was clearly an outlier.
And you should care how we win because that determines if you have the ability to win long-term or if you will continue to lose more than win.
The term has been used plenty of times before and it still applies. 2022 was pyrite - fool's old.
Sorry but when you say 2022 was an outlier you're just making shit up to try and make your case. You don't know. Know one will know until 2024. The raeso I am hopeful it wasn't an outlier is I see the Giants slowly but surely building up a talent base of good young players. Add a #1 WR in the draft and address the OL in FA with a couple or three vets and the offence has the potential to be tough to defend. This year it may be tougher to make some major upgrades on defence but I think we saw in the 2nd half of last season the D did get significantly better almsot all with young players.
And of course I want the Giants to get better at QB. Only an idiot wouldn't. But I live in the real world where the Bradys and Mahomes are really rather rare and hard to find. So you go to battle with the troops you have not the ones you'd like to have.
Who is the early Derby favorite?
That would be something.
But its a cult so it makes no sense to dissuade them otherwise.
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In comment 16392274 Snorkels said:
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What a stupid effing piece of moronic BS. I couldn't give a rat's ass how we win. Just win. What, we should give the 1986 and 1990 Super Bowls back because they were won mostly with defence. I have no idea what you were watching but 2022 was a great ride. Not overly talented team went out and battled their way to ten wins with Jones playing a huge part.
2022 was clearly an outlier.
And you should care how we win because that determines if you have the ability to win long-term or if you will continue to lose more than win.
The term has been used plenty of times before and it still applies. 2022 was pyrite - fool's old.
Sorry but when you say 2022 was an outlier you're just making shit up to try and make your case. You don't know. Know one will know until 2024. The raeso I am hopeful it wasn't an outlier is I see the Giants slowly but surely building up a talent base of good young players. Add a #1 WR in the draft and address the OL in FA with a couple or three vets and the offence has the potential to be tough to defend. This year it may be tougher to make some major upgrades on defence but I think we saw in the 2nd half of last season the D did get significantly better almsot all with young players.
And of course I want the Giants to get better at QB. Only an idiot wouldn't. But I live in the real world where the Bradys and Mahomes are really rather rare and hard to find. So you go to battle with the troops you have not the ones you'd like to have.
Stop embarrassing yourself. Not only would it be incredibly stupid of the Giants to go into 2024 relying on DJ, it is irresponsible. They can upgrade through the draft.
But I guess you like watching QBs who are incapable of throwing more TD passes than games started in a season (yes, 4 straight years), continually get picked off by corners or LBs in zone who watch him stare at his first read, or have receivers doing jumping jacks wide open downfield as they are staring at a double covered tight end at the sticks.
But its a cult so it makes no sense to dissuade them otherwise.
It’s pathetic
Snookles kind of gave it away when he referred to Giants management as "we."
But its a cult so it makes no sense to dissuade them otherwise.
If I can be so bold as to put myself into the shoes of a DJFC member, I would guess the reason they are so fond of 2022 is because they adjust Jones's performance for the "what-if" variable.
In other words, you take his 2022 actuals and adjust them for the "what if he had better players" variable and - voila! - a 70% completion%, 35/8 TDs/INTs, 73 QBR, 8+ YPA, Pro Bowl.
Can some people stop pretending we were like the '86 Giants? It's a little weird.
And 1-4-1 in their division.
Not sustainable.
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In comment 16392274 Snorkels said:
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What a stupid effing piece of moronic BS. I couldn't give a rat's ass how we win. Just win. What, we should give the 1986 and 1990 Super Bowls back because they were won mostly with defence. I have no idea what you were watching but 2022 was a great ride. Not overly talented team went out and battled their way to ten wins with Jones playing a huge part.
2022 was clearly an outlier.
And you should care how we win because that determines if you have the ability to win long-term or if you will continue to lose more than win.
The term has been used plenty of times before and it still applies. 2022 was pyrite - fool's old.
Sorry but when you say 2022 was an outlier you're just making shit up to try and make your case. You don't know. Know one will know until 2024. The raeso I am hopeful it wasn't an outlier is I see the Giants slowly but surely building up a talent base of good young players. Add a #1 WR in the draft and address the OL in FA with a couple or three vets and the offence has the potential to be tough to defend. This year it may be tougher to make some major upgrades on defence but I think we saw in the 2nd half of last season the D did get significantly better almsot all with young players.
And of course I want the Giants to get better at QB. Only an idiot wouldn't. But I live in the real world where the Bradys and Mahomes are really rather rare and hard to find. So you go to battle with the troops you have not the ones you'd like to have.
Man, you are a moron. And there is no surprise that the team sucks and basically every decision coming out of that building has been a disaster for years if anyone is following your judgment.
But do you really need to be on the site confirming it for fans? Now there is nothing else to even look forward to until your kind is gone.
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In comment 16392041 Snorkels said:
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And lets be very honest Jones is a very atypical case. My case is the Giants felt right away that he had some tools which is why they have kept him around. Unfortunately for him he's never had a very good team around him so that they could see what he really was capable of.
I don't find your honesty compelling because that's what I have heard for five years. That the Jones's situation is "atypical", or words to that effect. It's always been something. Just plug in the reason/excuse ______________ and more time is bought for #8.
JFC, five years is a long, long time for any player.
And let's really be honest here, for a player who just isn't a special talent. The typical adjectives we hear about Jones from the front office to coaches to players are the intangibles - hardworking, good teammate, good leader, etc. You rarely if ever here he can make every throw, he is great off-schedule, great at getting to his second reads, etc. Nothing.
I have never seen this situation in any sport, really. An organization that continues to try to salvage the career of one of the most average QBs/players I have ever seen. And that's being polite...
We can't seem to get it thru people's heads that nobody's getting another chance. Jones will be back in 2024 assuming he's healthy because professional football people think that given all the options he gives them the best chance to win games next year. In the meantime, they'll be looking for upgrades at the position and if they do find someone better he'll be gone in a heartbeat. That's the NFL. And why you people can't understand that the Giants can actually try and do the same things at the same time is beyond me!!
Tell John he's perilously close to losing a generation of Giants fans because of his insistence that Daniel Jones is good.
Professional football people led this franchise to a 19-46 record over four years.
Professional football people traded 3 first round picks and fully guaranteed $230 million dollars to a borderline sex offender to play Quarterback.
Professional football people evaluated a QB who might win his second league MVP by saying he should switch to Wide Receiver.
Professional football people led this franchise to a 19-46 record over four years.
Professional football people traded 3 first round picks and fully guaranteed $230 million dollars to a borderline sex offender to play Quarterback.
Professional football people evaluated a QB who might win his second league MVP by saying he should switch to Wide Receiver.
I'll rely on the defenders stupid enough to go public with Jones' tendency to stare down receivers.
Don't blab about it if you want more picks!
My lord Manhatten! How dense are you? The Giants are going to stick with Jones because they feel he's their best option to win games in 2024. They've also said they'll be looking for help at the position through FA and the draft but as of now they believe he gives them the best chance to win games next year. You may disagree (although I will note that none of you folks have even come close to answering the other question: If not Jones Who? cause neither aybody would be better or just draft someone are real-world answers) but Schoen-Daboll whose jobs are on the line are not stupid people and they know a hell a lot more about football and Jones than you will ever will.
I answered this yesterday.
Cut Jones.
Sign Minshew, who is better than Jones right now, draft a day two QB, keep DeVito.
Ask yourself this question: if Jones was an UFA, do you think the Giants would rather sign Minshew or Jones?
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The probability that Jones will become some awesome QB after what we have seen the first 5 years is infinitesimally small. You want to bank 2024 and then 2025 on such a small probability? Sticking with Jones makes no sense, and you have yet to offer a good reason as to why we should do it.
My lord Manhatten! How dense are you? The Giants are going to stick with Jones because they feel he's their best option to win games in 2024. They've also said they'll be looking for help at the position through FA and the draft but as of now they believe he gives them the best chance to win games next year. You may disagree (although I will note that none of you folks have even come close to answering the other question: If not Jones Who? cause neither aybody would be better or just draft someone are real-world answers) but Schoen-Daboll whose jobs are on the line are not stupid people and they know a hell a lot more about football and Jones than you will ever will.
Are you genuinely too stupid to understand that the "if not Jones, who?" question is literally impossible to answer with certainty regarding the draft, but that doesn't make the potential outcomes impossible to discuss, nor does it preclude the discussion of Jones's substantial shortcomings?
It is understandable that you enjoy rooting for him, however, given your shared inability to process the information that surrounds you.
This whole topic permeates the board and its very simple. And I was a fan of giving Jones his contract.
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You may disagree (although I will note that none of you folks have even come close to answering the other question: If not Jones Who? cause neither aybody would be better or just draft someone are real-world answers) but Schoen-Daboll whose jobs are on the line are not stupid people and they know a hell a lot more about football and Jones than you will ever will.
I answered this yesterday.
Cut Jones.
Sign Minshew, who is better than Jones right now, draft a day two QB, keep DeVito.
You have to account for the logical fallacies that every one of the burners use. And if you won't give an exact name, it means that you're just a "DJ doubters" with an "agenda."
They're exhaustingly stupid, but I think that might actually be intentional. Very similar to Hanlon's tirades a couple of years ago or Papa's condescending Twitter rants about chat room fans. These burners all have the same douche tone that the franchise lifers do.
So Pat, if you you are polling, let the FO know they need to start moving on from DJ - and now.
2019: 0-7
2020: 0-6
2021: 3-4
2022: 2-6
2023: 0-4
5-27 against teams .500
2019: 0-7
2020: 2-6
2021: 1-5
2022: 4-4-1
2023: 0-3
8-25-1
2019: N/A
2020: 35/53 (66%), 324 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT (2 games)
2021: 28/40 (70%), 402 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT (1 game)
2022: 58/89 (65.2%), 535 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs (3 games)
2023: N/A
2019: 162/269 (60.2%), 1,261 yards, 7 TDs, 9 INTs (7 games)
2020: 134/220 (60.9%), 1,345 yards, 5 TDs, 6 INTs (6 games)
2021: 79/134 (58.9%), 729 yards, 3 TDs, 5 INTs (4 games)
2022: 133/216, 1,444 yards, 4 TDs, 4 INTs (6 games)
2023: 78/114 (68.4%), 563 yards, 0 TDs, 5 INTs (4 games)
People fall for it every time on this site.
Jones had almost identical rushing numbers to Allen's 2021 season whose breakout coincided with Diggs arrival. Giants plan went to crap. Both players and coaching factors.
JS/BD committed to Jones with the contract. One thing that also could have changed is the dynamic in the front office which could impact decision making. I also don't see this Mara forcing things. Tisch has looked awfully involved to me. Why would he not stop this if true?
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about a clickbait article that is all conjecture.
People fall for it every time on this site.
What's it?
The article results in about 1 or 2 page of posts here...the rest are the what others would do about it. Some intellectually honest and others creating a CYA folder.
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about a clickbait article that is all conjecture.
People fall for it every time on this site.
And yet, you show up on every single one of these threads. You never have anything of value to add, but here you are.
Your self awareness absolutely sucks.
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In comment 16392516 DefenseWins said:
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about a clickbait article that is all conjecture.
People fall for it every time on this site.
And yet, you show up on every single one of these threads. You never have anything of value to add, but here you are.
Your self awareness absolutely sucks.
I really don’t post on Jones threads. Good try though.
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
And I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here
I'm not here
I can assure you we don't need any more stupidity.
So we appreciate that you don't really post on Jones threads.
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On these threads. Anyone see Jimmy Googs lately?
I can assure you we don't need any more stupidity.
So we appreciate that you don't really post on Jones threads.
Oh he’s already posting on this thread you mean? Thanks.
Looking forward to the same posts for the 34,451,873rd time. Very informative.
If he plays, I hope he's great.
I'd prefer a replacement.
The threads are not worth the nastiness that comes with them.
So Pat, if you you are polling, let the FO know they need to start moving on from DJ - and now.
Yea sure. The Giants are just going to eat that $69 Million cap hit by cutting him before the season. Seems like a great business model right there.
This is the correct take. He’s going to be a career backup once he is cut here. And that’s probably a good role for him. He can fill in for a couple games and maybe win a game coming off the bench.
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Using the contract as a crutch doesn’t make that true
Yea sure. The Giants are just going to eat that $69 Million cap hit by cutting him before the season. Seems like a great business model right there.
Denver just did this. Sometimes it’s better to cut bait and move on.
The Giants can cut Jones at the point he can pass a physical, which will certainly be after June 1, and not increase his 2024 cap charge.
If they pick a quarterback in the first round, this is a very plausible outcome.
This is the third straight year I've been told this 🤣
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Yea sure. The Giants are just going to eat that $69 Million cap hit by cutting him before the season. Seems like a great business model right there.
The Giants can cut Jones at the point he can pass a physical, which will certainly be after June 1, and not increase his 2024 cap charge.
If they pick a quarterback in the first round, this is a very plausible outcome.
If this franchise has a functioning brain somewhere in the building, they will bring in a starter-level QB this offseason.
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In comment 16392608 Eightshamrocks said:
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Yea sure. The Giants are just going to eat that $69 Million cap hit by cutting him before the season. Seems like a great business model right there.
The Giants can cut Jones at the point he can pass a physical, which will certainly be after June 1, and not increase his 2024 cap charge.
If they pick a quarterback in the first round, this is a very plausible outcome.
Another plausible outcome would be the Giants going 4-13 starting a rookie QB with this roster, and this O-line. Mara is not going to care that it's a rookie QB. Daboll would still get fired, because he would be one of the one's to sgin off on starting a rookie and getting rid of Jones.
And what happens when they go 4-13 with Jones?
More excuses
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In comment 16392621 christian said:
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In comment 16392608 Eightshamrocks said:
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Yea sure. The Giants are just going to eat that $69 Million cap hit by cutting him before the season. Seems like a great business model right there.
The Giants can cut Jones at the point he can pass a physical, which will certainly be after June 1, and not increase his 2024 cap charge.
If they pick a quarterback in the first round, this is a very plausible outcome.
Another plausible outcome would be the Giants going 4-13 starting a rookie QB with this roster, and this O-line. Mara is not going to care that it's a rookie QB. Daboll would still get fired, because he would be one of the one's to sgin off on starting a rookie and getting rid of Jones.
And what happens when they go 4-13 with Jones?
More excuses
If they pick a quarterback in the first round, this is a very plausible outcome.
Another plausible outcome would be the Giants going 4-13 starting a rookie QB with this roster, and this O-line. Mara is not going to care that it's a rookie QB. Daboll would still get fired, because he would be one of the one's to sgin off on starting a rookie and getting rid of Jones.
That's an unrelated point, and debatable point.
Back to original statement re: eating a 69M cap hit, you are simply just wrong about that.
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Using the contract as a crutch doesn’t make that true
This is the correct take. He’s going to be a career backup once he is cut here. And that’s probably a good role for him. He can fill in for a couple games and maybe win a game coming off the bench.
Here's how I see the rest of Jones career:
2024: either because of injury or ineffectiveness he loses the starting job
Early 2025: Cut by NYG. Signed as a starter elsewhere on a 1-2 year deal
Late 2025: either because of injury or ineffectiveness he's benched and/or cut
2026: signed as a backup QB
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Look, if Jones stinks again this year, he is done.
This is the third straight year I've been told this 🤣
Also the word "stinks" leaves the door open that Jones will be the QB again in 25' if he's merely below average.
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In comment 16392641 Eightshamrocks said:
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In comment 16392621 christian said:
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In comment 16392608 Eightshamrocks said:
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Yea sure. The Giants are just going to eat that $69 Million cap hit by cutting him before the season. Seems like a great business model right there.
The Giants can cut Jones at the point he can pass a physical, which will certainly be after June 1, and not increase his 2024 cap charge.
If they pick a quarterback in the first round, this is a very plausible outcome.
Another plausible outcome would be the Giants going 4-13 starting a rookie QB with this roster, and this O-line. Mara is not going to care that it's a rookie QB. Daboll would still get fired, because he would be one of the one's to sgin off on starting a rookie and getting rid of Jones.
And what happens when they go 4-13 with Jones?
More excuses
They won't. Anywhere from 9-8 to 1106 is where they will be if Jones is healthy. He already proved that in 2022.
In a remedial smoke and mirrors offense bolstered by Saquon. They're not running that again, because it's been figured out by the entire league. Plus if Jones running is hindered at all he's effectively toast. 6 wins max next year with DJ as qb1
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In comment 16392608 Eightshamrocks said:
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Yea sure. The Giants are just going to eat that $69 Million cap hit by cutting him before the season. Seems like a great business model right there.
The Giants can cut Jones at the point he can pass a physical, which will certainly be after June 1, and not increase his 2024 cap charge.
If they pick a quarterback in the first round, this is a very plausible outcome.
Another plausible outcome would be the Giants going 4-13 starting a rookie QB with this roster, and this O-line. Mara is not going to care that it's a rookie QB. Daboll would still get fired, because he would be one of the one's to sgin off on starting a rookie and getting rid of Jones.
It is possible that Daboll gets fired for only winning 4 games with a rookie QB.
But it is still better than ABSOLUTELY getting fired because they only won 4 games with Jones at QB.
Ironically, I think one of Jones's major issues right now is he's wound up too tight leaning into this "first in the gym at 5 a.m." workout warrior archetype. He's rushed back from 3 separate injuries too early at various points in his career.
I think his game would benefit more from going to the desert and taking psychedelics rather than constantly trying to be the perfect student.
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Using the contract as a crutch doesn’t make that true
Yea sure. The Giants are just going to eat that $69 Million cap hit by cutting him before the season. Seems like a great business model right there.
The Broncos are about to swallow a canyon full of money to jettison Wilson. Why? Because Payton doesn't want to screw around wasting time for a QB who he doesn't like in his system. And Wilson is a great QB headed to Canton.
When in doubt, cut bait and quit searching for the perfect conclusion.
BTW, who do you think is going to get it right first? Denver or NYG?
If we can't find Jimmy, I'd even settle for dep. He could satisfy the stupidity quota pretty easily, I'm sure.
They won't. Anywhere from 9-8 to 1106 is where they will be if Jones is healthy. He already proved that in 2022.
The other years don’t count?
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On these threads. Anyone see Jimmy Googs lately?
If we can't find Jimmy, I'd even settle for dep. He could satisfy the stupidity quota pretty easily, I'm sure.
Don’t count yourself out sparky. You’re always good for a few moronic takes a day.
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On these threads. Anyone see Jimmy Googs lately?
If we can't find Jimmy, I'd even settle for dep. He could satisfy the stupidity quota pretty easily, I'm sure.
And you know Googs is here. You just don’t have the balls to call him out.
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In comment 16392567 JT039 said:
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On these threads. Anyone see Jimmy Googs lately?
If we can't find Jimmy, I'd even settle for dep. He could satisfy the stupidity quota pretty easily, I'm sure.
Don’t count yourself out sparky. You’re always good for a few moronic takes a day.
Why are you getting so defensive? I thought we were just talking about posters who aren't here any more. You already said you're not dep.
Don't you feel like lying takes more effort and energy than honesty?
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In comment 16392567 JT039 said:
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On these threads. Anyone see Jimmy Googs lately?
If we can't find Jimmy, I'd even settle for dep. He could satisfy the stupidity quota pretty easily, I'm sure.
And you know Googs is here. You just don’t have the balls to call him out.
I don't have any desire to. It has nothing to do with balls.
I just think it's silly when dupes try to play the righteous card and call out other dupes.
All of you are too soft to stick around on a single handle.
2019: 0-7
2020: 0-6
2021: 3-4
2022: 2-6
2023: 0-4
5-27 against teams .500
This is the most stinging indictment of all... At his absolute best, DJ has been terrible.
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In comment 16392747 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 16392567 JT039 said:
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On these threads. Anyone see Jimmy Googs lately?
If we can't find Jimmy, I'd even settle for dep. He could satisfy the stupidity quota pretty easily, I'm sure.
And you know Googs is here. You just don’t have the balls to call him out.
I don't have any desire to. It has nothing to do with balls.
I just think it's silly when dupes try to play the righteous card and call out other dupes.
All of you are too soft to stick around on a single handle.
I am a returning handle, you think I am soft for that? Oh fucking well.
And does it matter what I claim? You and the 6-7 posters who attack, ridicule, mock anyone who disagrees with you or god forbid likes a certain player. And when people mention the times you have been wrong - you’re the ones who get all sensitive and the attacks intensify. Time to grow up.
I watch the Bills play, for example, and I am 100% convinced Allen can.
On the other hand, I watch Tua play for Miami and think he's not their solution and they need to pivot.
So, to my friends in the DJFC, after five years and all of the games played, most of you seem convinced that Jones can to that. Am I wrong in that conclusion?
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In comment 16392608 Eightshamrocks said:
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Yea sure. The Giants are just going to eat that $69 Million cap hit by cutting him before the season. Seems like a great business model right there.
The Giants can cut Jones at the point he can pass a physical, which will certainly be after June 1, and not increase his 2024 cap charge.
If they pick a quarterback in the first round, this is a very plausible outcome.
Another plausible outcome would be the Giants going 4-13 starting a rookie QB with this roster, and this O-line. Mara is not going to care that it's a rookie QB. Daboll would still get fired, because he would be one of the one's to sgin off on starting a rookie and getting rid of Jones.
Tommy DeVito won 3 games in a row with this OL. Why would you assume a rookie with much, much more talent would somehow be worse? In fact, DeVito won 3 times more games than Jones did this season. But yeah, excuses…
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In comment 16392621 christian said:
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In comment 16392608 Eightshamrocks said:
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Yea sure. The Giants are just going to eat that $69 Million cap hit by cutting him before the season. Seems like a great business model right there.
The Giants can cut Jones at the point he can pass a physical, which will certainly be after June 1, and not increase his 2024 cap charge.
If they pick a quarterback in the first round, this is a very plausible outcome.
Another plausible outcome would be the Giants going 4-13 starting a rookie QB with this roster, and this O-line. Mara is not going to care that it's a rookie QB. Daboll would still get fired, because he would be one of the one's to sgin off on starting a rookie and getting rid of Jones.
Tommy DeVito won 3 games in a row with this OL. Why would you assume a rookie with much, much more talent would somehow be worse? In fact, DeVito won 3 times more games than Jones did this season. But yeah, excuses…
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In comment 16392641 Eightshamrocks said:
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In comment 16392621 christian said:
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In comment 16392608 Eightshamrocks said:
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Yea sure. The Giants are just going to eat that $69 Million cap hit by cutting him before the season. Seems like a great business model right there.
The Giants can cut Jones at the point he can pass a physical, which will certainly be after June 1, and not increase his 2024 cap charge.
If they pick a quarterback in the first round, this is a very plausible outcome.
Another plausible outcome would be the Giants going 4-13 starting a rookie QB with this roster, and this O-line. Mara is not going to care that it's a rookie QB. Daboll would still get fired, because he would be one of the one's to sgin off on starting a rookie and getting rid of Jones.
Tommy DeVito won 3 games in a row with this OL. Why would you assume a rookie with much, much more talent would somehow be worse? In fact, DeVito won 3 times more games than Jones did this season. But yeah, excuses…
With a completely different O-line than Jones had and a healthy Saquan, but other than that do carrry on.
You know what, you have convinced me. The QB doesn't matter, he's just a product of his environment.
Let's improve the supporting cast. And to really lean into that, let's free up DJ's cap value as soon as possible to help accomplish that.
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In comment 16392641 Eightshamrocks said:
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In comment 16392621 christian said:
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In comment 16392608 Eightshamrocks said:
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Yea sure. The Giants are just going to eat that $69 Million cap hit by cutting him before the season. Seems like a great business model right there.
The Giants can cut Jones at the point he can pass a physical, which will certainly be after June 1, and not increase his 2024 cap charge.
If they pick a quarterback in the first round, this is a very plausible outcome.
Another plausible outcome would be the Giants going 4-13 starting a rookie QB with this roster, and this O-line. Mara is not going to care that it's a rookie QB. Daboll would still get fired, because he would be one of the one's to sgin off on starting a rookie and getting rid of Jones.
Tommy DeVito won 3 games in a row with this OL. Why would you assume a rookie with much, much more talent would somehow be worse? In fact, DeVito won 3 times more games than Jones did this season. But yeah, excuses…
With a completely different O-line than Jones had and a healthy Saquan, but other than that do carrry on.
You’re the one that said a rookie will only win 4 games “with this OL”. DeVito won 3 in a row “with this OL”. Did he not?
I watch the Bills play, for example, and I am 100% convinced Allen can.
On the other hand, I watch Tua play for Miami and think he's not their solution and they need to pivot.
So, to my friends in the DJFC, after five years and all of the games played, most of you seem convinced that Jones can to that. Am I wrong in that conclusion?
The problem is how many QBs currently in the NFL fit that void the giants have left.
Mahomes
Allen
Maybe Burrow - not even sure he can.
So the next part of your question is - if Schoen looks at these QBs and doesn’t think any in this draft are that QB - what does he do?
And does it matter what I claim? You and the 6-7 posters who attack, ridicule, mock anyone who disagrees with you or god forbid likes a certain player. And when people mention the times you have been wrong - you’re the ones who get all sensitive and the attacks intensify. Time to grow up.
✔️
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In comment 16392766 JT039 said:
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In comment 16392747 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 16392567 JT039 said:
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On these threads. Anyone see Jimmy Googs lately?
If we can't find Jimmy, I'd even settle for dep. He could satisfy the stupidity quota pretty easily, I'm sure.
And you know Googs is here. You just don’t have the balls to call him out.
I don't have any desire to. It has nothing to do with balls.
I just think it's silly when dupes try to play the righteous card and call out other dupes.
All of you are too soft to stick around on a single handle.
I am a returning handle, you think I am soft for that? Oh fucking well.
Your new handle is a variation on your old handle and you immediately told people that you were Crick, but on a new handle.
That seems materially different to me, and the opposite of what I'm defining as soft in this case. Soft is coming back under a new handle, pretending to be a completely new poster, denying your previous handle, and still somehow getting defensive about getting called out while calling out others who are doing the exact same thing.
JT has repeatedly claimed that he's not dep. Yet as soon as someone mentions dep, his diaper gets all twisted. Meanwhile he thinks he's got the high road to call out Jimmy Googs.
I think Googs was a far smarter poster than dep, but if JT isn't dep, I don't see why my opinion on that matters to him.
I watch the Bills play, for example, and I am 100% convinced Allen can.
On the other hand, I watch Tua play for Miami and think he's not their solution and they need to pivot.
So, to my friends in the DJFC, after five years and all of the games played, most of you seem convinced that Jones can to that. Am I wrong in that conclusion?
Its kind of a rhetorical question that's hard to answer. I don't think anyone is prepared to say Jones is anywhere near the category of a Mahomes type player who is going to get have his team in the hunt every year. But then neither does anybody else in the league these days. Even Josh Allen was kind of pedestrian until they got him some weapons. What I do believe, and it seems the Giants do too, is that Jones is at least good enough to get you to the playoffs most years given a competent OL and a weapon or two. In fact he did so in 2022 with a less than super talented team and I also believe that he stayed healthy this past season the Giants would have won 8-9 games and at least been in the hunt. And getting to the playoffs is a big part of the game because as we've seen once you get there anything can happen.
That certainly should not preclude the Giants from continuing to look to upgrade the position. Which also is what they have pretty much said they'll be doing.
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the question that needs to be asked about Jones, or any QB, is do you think that QB can lead you to a SB and win it.
I watch the Bills play, for example, and I am 100% convinced Allen can.
On the other hand, I watch Tua play for Miami and think he's not their solution and they need to pivot.
So, to my friends in the DJFC, after five years and all of the games played, most of you seem convinced that Jones can to that. Am I wrong in that conclusion?
Its kind of a rhetorical question that's hard to answer. I don't think anyone is prepared to say Jones is anywhere near the category of a Mahomes type player who is going to get have his team in the hunt every year. But then neither does anybody else in the league these days. Even Josh Allen was kind of pedestrian until they got him some weapons. What I do believe, and it seems the Giants do too, is that Jones is at least good enough to get you to the playoffs most years given a competent OL and a weapon or two. In fact he did so in 2022 with a less than super talented team and I also believe that he stayed healthy this past season the Giants would have won 8-9 games and at least been in the hunt. And getting to the playoffs is a big part of the game because as we've seen once you get there anything can happen.
That certainly should not preclude the Giants from continuing to look to upgrade the position. Which also is what they have pretty much said they'll be doing.
"Josh Allen was kind of pedestrian" as a rookie.
Dan Jones is going into year six. That's not the same. Deep down, you know it.
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Look, if Jones stinks again this year, he is done.
This is the third straight year I've been told this 🤣
"Josh Allen was kind of pedestrian" as a rookie.
Dan Jones is going into year six. That's not the same. Deep down, you know it.
I sort of promised myself not to respond to the stupidity around here but then along comes Gatorade Drunk!
You know what I said was Josh Allen was kind of pedestrian until they went out and got Stephan Diggs. Jones has never ever had a receiver anywhere near as good as Diggs with the Giants! Sheesh
The problem is how many QBs currently in the NFL fit that void the giants have left.
Mahomes
Allen
Maybe Burrow - not even sure he can.
So the next part of your question is - if Schoen looks at these QBs and doesn’t think any in this draft are that QB - what does he do?
The process should still be to settle the Jones question first. He's on the team and you have five years of data, granted there are some challenging circumstances to consider.
So, using the hypothetical, if Schoen concludes Jones the odds of Jones bringing a SB are just too long, he should move on right away. And begin the process of finding the answer.
Otherwise, we're just a car stuck in the mud, spinning wheels, and spraying mud all of the place.
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The problem is how many QBs currently in the NFL fit that void the giants have left.
Mahomes
Allen
Maybe Burrow - not even sure he can.
So the next part of your question is - if Schoen looks at these QBs and doesn’t think any in this draft are that QB - what does he do?
The process should still be to settle the Jones question first. He's on the team and you have five years of data, granted there are some challenging circumstances to consider.
So, using the hypothetical, if Schoen concludes Jones the odds of Jones bringing a SB are just too long, he should move on right away. And begin the process of finding the answer.
Otherwise, we're just a car stuck in the mud, spinning wheels, and spraying mud all of the place.
I don’t disagree. I think you and both agree that if we draft a QB at 6, trade back in the first for one, or draft one in the second - they should start immediately. If Jones is healthy - let him be the backup. And then cut him after the year. I think that’s a viable route.
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The problem is how many QBs currently in the NFL fit that void the giants have left.
Mahomes
Allen
Maybe Burrow - not even sure he can.
So the next part of your question is - if Schoen looks at these QBs and doesn’t think any in this draft are that QB - what does he do?
The process should still be to settle the Jones question first. He's on the team and you have five years of data, granted there are some challenging circumstances to consider.
So, using the hypothetical, if Schoen concludes Jones the odds of Jones bringing a SB are just too long, he should move on right away. And begin the process of finding the answer.
Otherwise, we're just a car stuck in the mud, spinning wheels, and spraying mud all of the place.
This is why I say if this is a bust year with Jones, Schoen and Daboll have to be held accountable. Even if the Jones stuff is coming from Mara, as some suspect, because that would mean they only failed because of the personnel and coaching, which is on Schoen and Daboll.
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the question that needs to be asked about Jones, or any QB, is do you think that QB can lead you to a SB and win it.
I watch the Bills play, for example, and I am 100% convinced Allen can.
On the other hand, I watch Tua play for Miami and think he's not their solution and they need to pivot.
So, to my friends in the DJFC, after five years and all of the games played, most of you seem convinced that Jones can to that. Am I wrong in that conclusion?
Its kind of a rhetorical question that's hard to answer. I don't think anyone is prepared to say Jones is anywhere near the category of a Mahomes type player who is going to get have his team in the hunt every year. But then neither does anybody else in the league these days. Even Josh Allen was kind of pedestrian until they got him some weapons. What I do believe, and it seems the Giants do too, is that Jones is at least good enough to get you to the playoffs most years given a competent OL and a weapon or two. In fact he did so in 2022 with a less than super talented team and I also believe that he stayed healthy this past season the Giants would have won 8-9 games and at least been in the hunt. And getting to the playoffs is a big part of the game because as we've seen once you get there anything can happen.
That certainly should not preclude the Giants from continuing to look to upgrade the position. Which also is what they have pretty much said they'll be doing.
So at his best you think Jones is...Dak Prescott? Someone good enough to get to the playoffs but that's about all? Talk about embracing mediocrity
More to the point bw I don't understand the need to get rid of Jones in order to get a rookie especially one of the second-tier guys.
Lastly, let's not be firing people until after the season!
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"Josh Allen was kind of pedestrian" as a rookie.
Dan Jones is going into year six. That's not the same. Deep down, you know it.
I sort of promised myself not to respond to the stupidity around here but then along comes Gatorade Drunk!
You know what I said was Josh Allen was kind of pedestrian until they went out and got Stephan Diggs. Jones has never ever had a receiver anywhere near as good as Diggs with the Giants! Sheesh
It's Dunk, you fucking loser.
Unlike your idiot VP of comms, I don't drink.
More to the point bw I don't understand the need to get rid of Jones in order to get a rookie especially one of the second-tier guys.
Lastly, let's not be firing people until after the season!
Our?
Do you have a fucking mouse in your pocket, or do you keep using the plural form for some other reason?
What I think, and what I think the Giants are thinking, is that while Jones may never be a prototype pocket passer, he does have some unique talent in that he has at least decent arm talent along with really good athleticism and what the hope is that with an offence with a couple of deep threats plus an underneath receiver or two (and we are actually pretty close to that) combined with the running threat of Jones and Barkley it just might be a very difficult offence for other team to defend. We shall see.
What I think, and what I think the Giants are thinking, is that while Jones may never be a prototype pocket passer, he does have some unique talent in that he has at least decent arm talent along with really good athleticism and what the hope is that with an offence with a couple of deep threats plus an underneath receiver or two (and we are actually pretty close to that) combined with the running threat of Jones and Barkley it just might be a very difficult offence for other team to defend. We shall see.
20% = "regular basis" at 1925 Giants Drive.
More to the point bw I don't understand the need to get rid of Jones in order to get a rookie especially one of the second-tier guys.
Lastly, let's not be firing people until after the season!
Again, if the conclusion is Jones is no longer the answer, keeping him is just superfluous. Are his intangibles that important to keep him around? Cut the ties and play either a rookie or free agent like Minshew.
Re: Jones and Allen. While the numbers after two years may show similar players, this is where the eye test should come in. And if you apply that fairly, I don't see how anyone could have watched both after their first two years and conclude anything other than Allen is a special talent and Jones is an ordinary talent.
Giants don't need a Bortles clone but I would take the number 1 rushing offense and number two D that Jax had in 2017. Whether Jones or someone else at QB, they will benefit.
Awww, that brought a tear to my eye christian.
Good thing I have a lot of Kleenex on hand from advice on last week's threads!
Giants don't need a Bortles clone but I would take the number 1 rushing offense and number two D that Jax had in 2017. Whether Jones or someone else at QB, they will benefit.
And how long did that work in Jacksonville?
What I think, and what I think the Giants are thinking, is that while Jones may never be a prototype pocket passer, he does have some unique talent in that he has at least decent arm talent along with really good athleticism and what the hope is that with an offence with a couple of deep threats plus an underneath receiver or two (and we are actually pretty close to that) combined with the running threat of Jones and Barkley it just might be a very difficult offence for other team to defend. We shall see.
Snorkels - still waiting for your response on why the franchise moved on from Eli after 2 games in 2019 if you all felt he had his best year in 2018? Surely, a future HoF would get more time to work out any kinks in his game after an 0-2 start.
Since things appear slow again for you at your workplace, let me know.
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I just want to say if we're picking teams, I want to be with GD and ThomasG. I don't know what we're arguing about, but I'm on that side.
Awww, that brought a tear to my eye christian.
Good thing I have a lot of Kleenex on hand from advice on last week's threads!
I think christian is just being nice including you.
The old saying in professional tennis used to be that the best doubles team ever was McEnroe and whomever he played with.
I think this is similar. The best BBI duo to argue is GD and whomever he decides to include for the day... ;)
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In comment 16392885 christian said:
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I just want to say if we're picking teams, I want to be with GD and ThomasG. I don't know what we're arguing about, but I'm on that side.
Awww, that brought a tear to my eye christian.
Good thing I have a lot of Kleenex on hand from advice on last week's threads!
I think christian is just being nice including you.
The old saying in professional tennis used to be that the best doubles team ever was McEnroe and whomever he played with.
I think this is similar. The best BBI duo to argue is GD and whomever he decides to include for the day... ;)
You're getting me all choked up with these nice words. Need more kleenex now.
What I think, and what I think the Giants are thinking, is that while Jones may never be a prototype pocket passer, he does have some unique talent in that he has at least decent arm talent along with really good athleticism and what the hope is that with an offence with a couple of deep threats plus an underneath receiver or two (and we are actually pretty close to that) combined with the running threat of Jones and Barkley it just might be a very difficult offence for other team to defend. We shall see.
Ah the "we don't know what Jones is" defense. He got pro-level coaching in college, and now 5 years of NFL coaching. He was described as NFL ready coming out of Duke, and yet we don't know his ceiling? His ceiling was 2022, and he'll be lucky to ever sniff that again
We are still arguing about the circumstances surrounding both his good and bad play.
I have an opinion on that is overridden by a more immediate concern. We cannot trust that Jones will be the same guy after injury. We must accept the possibility they he could become even less durable.
I don't care if he is given a shot to retain his position. The only thing I REALLY want is viable option if Jones career ends the next time he tweeks his neck.
That just is.
I don't have to whine about whether Jones sucks or not or have an unquenchable need to respond to every single post that contradicts my opinion with some form of....
(I'm right and you are wrong) this is contextually most of the BBI debates.
Peace :)
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"Josh Allen was kind of pedestrian" as a rookie.
Dan Jones is going into year six. That's not the same. Deep down, you know it.
I sort of promised myself not to respond to the stupidity around here but then along comes Gatorade Drunk!
You know what I said was Josh Allen was kind of pedestrian until they went out and got Stephan Diggs. Jones has never ever had a receiver anywhere near as good as Diggs with the Giants! Sheesh
He also doesn't have nearly the physical skills Allen has, with the possible exception of straight line speed.
Allen does literally everything else better than Jones. Absolutely everything. And it's not debatable unless you want to look foolish.
So let's ask this question, since they have nearly identical cap figures in 2024 - for $47 million which QB would you rather have?