Yes, I know it is February 7th. We haven't hit free agency. The draft if more than two months away. Hell, we just hired our new DC two days ago.
But I've seen Eric allude in multiple posts that this upcoming season has '96 vibes & I agree. For you youngsters, the '96 season wasn't a good one. After coming off a shitty '95 campaign where we were supposed to contend, but got our doors blown off in a home opener vs. Dallas in primetime-sound familiar to '22?-, the Giants went 6-10 in '96 with Dave Brown-a QB who went to Duke of all places-playing piss poor. The end result was Dan Reeves getting fired & the beginning of the Fassel era. Brown eventually lost his job for good in '97 when he got injured.
Again, the season is 7 months away, but right now, my expectations for the '24 Giants are pretty low. The though of running it back with #8 & hoping against hope that he'll become something...I give up. And I'm resigned-after reading Sy's post earlier-that that's what the Giants think...its all so depressing.
Otherwise, I have some hopes for the defense, and a few of the young offensive skill guys will flash. Basically, it will look like 2023.
The draft could possibly change my outlook but as of right now, we don’t have a viable starting QB and our O-line is bottom 5 in the league. JS has his work cut out for him to continue this roster turnover.
Daboll basically firing 2/3 top coordinators screams of panic and desperation. Not a good way to enter the upcoming season.
This
Daboll looks to be a good coach to me. You can't have it both ways, you can't say the QB sucks but then be critical of Daboll. If you think the QB sucks, then Daboll having a 16-19-1 record including a playoff win looks pretty damn good, doesn't it? After all, the best coaches tend to have the best QBs. It's not a coincidence.
So, assuming Daboll has assurances that this is a long term fix, I'd like to see one of the following:
1. NYG drafts a QB high in the first round either by trading up or staying at six.
or
2. NYG trades down multiple times and loads up on draft picks including an extra 2025 first round pick. I do NOT want to just stick at six and draft a WR. That's Barkley all over again. I'd be fine with this if they can't trade up or no QB meets the value at six. I'd hope they'd still be able to land a QB later on in the draft.
I also want to move on from Barkley. It's time to move off from this era of NYG football. Schoen admitted they decided to accelerate their process, the key is not doubling down further.
If the Giants restructure Jones, I'll believe Mara is putting pressure to win this year. I'll be encouraged if Jones isn't restructured. So, to answer the thread - I'll be optimistic if all signs point to a long term approach in March & April. I'm not as worried about record, just show me you aren't doubling down on Jones & Barkley. Doubling down on Jones = restructuring. If NYG doesn't draft a QB high, it doesn't necessarily mean they are doubling down on Jones. Just trade down multiple times if that's the case. Nothing should be forced.
What's the difference between that and...
What's the difference between that and...
Agreed, whenever I talk to the Lions fans I’m surrounded by in Michigan I summarize the Giants with one word: boring. They haven’t fielded a competent offense in years now. The league is basically begging for more yards, TD’s etc. with its big investments in fantasy football and gambling in general. And the Giants can still crack 20 points a few times a year.
My season ticket invoice has been sitting in my inbox for weeks, and I can’t bring myself to pay for it. I honestly don’t know if I will. I see the 2024 season being a disaster.
My season ticket invoice has been sitting in my inbox for weeks, and I can’t bring myself to pay for it. I honestly don’t know if I will. I see the 2024 season being a disaster.
This is telling, I hope ownership starts paying attention to fans at some point. Jones has had 5 years now, it’s not like he’s some second year QB that the fans are impatient about. This is a scoring league. Even on Jones’ best day, do you ever envision a scenario where he matches up against Mahomes and wins a SB? No way, and that means you move on.
I'll wait until after the draft.
This is nothing like'96. And Daboll is not Reeves. (thankfully)
Reeves and GY constantly butted heads *after* Reeves first year.
Daboll and Schoen are clearly on the same page.
And they did not inherit the veteran (albeit older) SB winning roster, that Reeves inherited.
Well, damn... when you put it like that 😆
I convinced myself, like 5 years ago, that 2024 will be our year and push for the Super Bowl. 2022 season gave me hope, that we were on the right track, this season, we had 6 wins, despite our abysmal play and now we have a solid draft class in front of us with many picks and options, that could deeply strengthen our team, with also untapped potential left in the squad with the likes of Neal, our young WR Core, our DBs. I think this team can be good, and with a good offseason we can make a push for a strong playoff run next season.
Obviously, the 2023 season was disastrous, but nonetheless, we won some games still without and oline.
It only takes tweaks here and there to turn around a franchise.
Even after we pickup some free agents and see who we drafted... those are just names on a piece of paper. Means about the same as the Eagle's dream team. Remember that?
The assessment cannot be made until we are a few games into the regular season.
This happens every year and this picture depicts what is going on here. Lucy (the Giants) continuously fool the Giants fans (Charlie Brown) and we fall for it every time.
Not for nothing, but at this point and probably the last 5 years Belichick has been one of the worst coaches in football. He decimated the roster, hasn't a clue as how to run an offense and his choices for assistant coaches have been terrible.
So yeah, you are correct BB in '25
I am optimistic this year will be better than last year. Coaching dysfunction should not be as much of an issue this year. One more draft with some premium picks coming. A chance to bolster some weak areas with strategic FA pickups.
Expect QB to be addressed and believe it will be in the draft. That said, we have to wait and see what they do. So, CAUTIOUSLY optimistic is my stance right now.
NFW is Belichick the coach next year if things go south. His time has passed.
NFW is Belichick the coach next year if things go south. His time has passed.
They could hire him as some kind of consultant... for what I have no idea
My season ticket invoice has been sitting in my inbox for weeks, and I can’t bring myself to pay for it. I honestly don’t know if I will. I see the 2024 season being a disaster.
Save your money dude.
Do you think Daboll has done a bad job here?
Jan-Feb … a mix of anger, despair, frustration or ambivalence from last season
Mar-Apr … spring, along with free agency and the draft, plant the seeds of hope
May-June … optimism blooms (except for the chronically miserable amongst us)
July-Aug … hot summer nights rekindle unbridled passion for our heroes
Sept-Oct … starting 0 and whatever bring us crashing back to reality
Nov-Dec … tbd ….
Rinse and repeat.
My biggest fear since last March is that BD would get axed before we could see him develop his own QB.
Jan-Feb … a mix of anger, despair, frustration or ambivalence from last season
Mar-Apr … spring, along with free agency and the draft, plant the seeds of hope
May-June … optimism blooms (except for the chronically miserable amongst us)
July-Aug … hot summer nights rekindle unbridled passion for our heroes
Sept-Oct … starting 0 and whatever bring us crashing back to reality
Nov-Dec … tbd ….
Agree. How can anyone predict the season will go off the rails? Based on what?
Rinse and repeat.
Jan-Feb … a mix of anger, despair, frustration or ambivalence from last season
Mar-Apr … spring, along with free agency and the draft, plant the seeds of hope
May-June … optimism blooms (except for the chronically miserable amongst us)
July-Aug … hot summer nights rekindle unbridled passion for our heroes
Sept-Oct … starting 0 and whatever bring us crashing back to reality
Nov-Dec … tbd ….
Rinse and repeat.
I feel very much the same.
Coming into this season I'm less optimistic. Yes getting burned last year is part of this, but the main reason is that even if the offensive line is better, Jones is going to be our starting QB and the ACL has to hamper his ability to run with the football which is one of his biggest assets.
In my mind I looked at Jones as a 2 year stop gap until we could find a real QB (yes I'm someone that views the contract that way), without the weapon his legs provide, I'm not so sure I even see him as a stop gap. If we don't replace him, we don't win.
Jan-Feb … a mix of anger, despair, frustration or ambivalence from last season
Mar-Apr … spring, along with free agency and the draft, plant the seeds of hope
May-June … optimism blooms (except for the chronically miserable amongst us)
July-Aug … hot summer nights rekindle unbridled passion for our heroes
Sept-Oct … starting 0 and whatever bring us crashing back to reality
Nov-Dec … tbd ….
Rinse and repeat.
The Giants backup QB is an important role.
Am I optimistic? I think Daboll is a good coach and drives the team to 7, 8 or 9 wins. It’ll be ok.
You want optimism? Get us a QB we can believe in and nail the draft. I have yet to see that.
1.) GM
2.) HC
3.) QB
We are going to find out a lot about #1 this year.
I'm beginning to doubt #2.
We aren't even close on #3.
As for the hot seat discussion, I think Schoen deserves more blame than Dabs at this point. Daboll has his flaws but he has overperformed with a flawed roster overall.
What has Schoen done that's impressive?
As for the hot seat discussion, I think Schoen deserves more blame than Dabs at this point. Daboll has his flaws but he has overperformed with a flawed roster overall.
What has Schoen done that's impressive?
I think Schoen and Daboll are probably going to be fine if they can rebuild the roster, but I won't be optimistic about the Giants until I see a CORE group of players who can string together consecutive seasons of above average starter play. Until they have that, they're not going to compete. They're going to yo-yo.
Good teams -- those that compete every year -- have core groups of good/great players that they build around for years. Everyone here can rattle of the names of the core guys of the Parcells and Coughlin eras. Everyone here can probably rattle off the names of the core guys of any good teams of this season.
Right now, there's only TWO guys on the team you can say have had consecutive good seasons. Thomas and Lawrence. That's not a core. The Giants have no reliable core group of good/great players who are difference makers.
They need the recent Schoen picks to develop into those kind of guys. Thibodeaux, Neal, Schmitz, Hyatt, Banks. Those guys need to become year in, year out difference makers. And even if they all do (which they won't), they're still too short on OL and pass rush talent.
Right now, they are largely a team of JAGs or tease guys who can't stay on the field.
All of these issues remain true without even discussing the QB situation.
We say this every year: until they fix the OL, they're going nowhere -- with ANY QB.
Until these things change, it's hard to be optimistic.
This.
Quote:
Jones is not only a below average quarterback, he's very boring to watch.
As for the hot seat discussion, I think Schoen deserves more blame than Dabs at this point. Daboll has his flaws but he has overperformed with a flawed roster overall.
What has Schoen done that's impressive?
Boring to watch? A QB with the ability to rush for over 700 yards and 7 TD's in a season is boring? To me a boring QB are the one's who are statues back there ala Drew Bledsoe, etc.
yeah I enjoy a quarterback that can properly read the field through his progressions and is aggressive taking shots down the field.
Pretty much the opposite of Danny check downs.
Annnnndddd then the season starts. And its over. Things are as they always are.
Classic post! Brute honesty at its finest. I agree. Unless some very positive personnel moves occur in free agency or the draft, 2024 may very well be the worst performing year for this franchise in the Super Bowl Era.
The Giants backup QB is an important role.
Am I optimistic? I think Daboll is a good coach and drives the team to 7, 8 or 9 wins. It’ll be ok.
Good post. I agree.
It is a life choice.
I choose optimism and positivity.
Always
There's always some degree of optimism with a new season approaching. But, do I expect them to pull 180 on gameday yet? Not so much. Alot of fundamental problems inside 1925.
It is a life choice.
I choose optimism and positivity.
Always
Yeah, I think the main thing is Jones can't look like he did in 2023. Basically no team can succeed with that level of QB play.
But Jones won't likely be able to run like he did in 2022, so the main road to success for me would be the first four games of 2021, when he actually threw the ball reasonably well and ranked in the top 15 of DVOA (which doesn't rate running) before he got concussed against Dallas.
If you want to know what a supposed "pessimistic" outlook is based upon, it's this:
Not pessimism. Not fear.
Reality.
Quote:
To start at the beginning of the season. I also don’t think he isn’t reinsured when he does make it on the field.
The Giants backup QB is an important role.
Am I optimistic? I think Daboll is a good coach and drives the team to 7, 8 or 9 wins. It’ll be ok.
Good post. I agree.
There are zero other fan bases of good NFL teams waiting to see who the backup QBs and then making a determination on whether they will be excited or not excited about the season...
Make that ANY other fan base.
Quote:
I think last year was the anomaly, not 2022, with this regime. But, they need ton prove it. And that will 100% be predicated on this offseason, both draft and FA. If the rumors of us sticking with Jones AND not drafting a QB are true, then this offseason has to be a monster HR. Precious needs completely perfect conditions to play well, is what I gather from the arguments. This means we need to crush it with at least 2 new OL, Neal has to be coached up in a big way, we need a true #1 WR, we need a TE, and we need a RB. If all those hit AND WRs can get "Alabama open", then we should be OK.
Yeah, I think the main thing is Jones can't look like he did in 2023. Basically no team can succeed with that level of QB play.
But Jones won't likely be able to run like he did in 2022, so the main road to success for me would be the first four games of 2021, when he actually threw the ball reasonably well and ranked in the top 15 of DVOA (which doesn't rate running) before he got concussed against Dallas.
Alas, he's never shown "it".
IF we can improve the OL to mediocrity, we're there.
there are FA improvements.
Draft will give us a couple of upgrades.
All that is reasonable to expect/hope for.
IF DJ can stay upright, I think we see improvement. He may not lead us to the promised land, but I don't think he's as bad as the hysteria around here would lead you to believe.
The problem is that we're in QB hell. Stuck with DJ, who isn't good enough. Seemingly out of reach of the top prospects, and taking a second tier QB likely isn't good value.
IF we can improve the OL to mediocrity, we're there.
there are FA improvements.
Draft will give us a couple of upgrades.
All that is reasonable to expect/hope for.
IF DJ can stay upright, I think we see improvement. He may not lead us to the promised land, but I don't think he's as bad as the hysteria around here would lead you to believe.
The problem is that we're in QB hell. Stuck with DJ, who isn't good enough. Seemingly out of reach of the top prospects, and taking a second tier QB likely isn't good value.
I can almost hear him laughing like Mutley reading the proud proclamations of fans claiming they choose optimism over misery. It is frankly the same as choosing insanity over sanity. And if the fanbase is this resilient after a decade of gross incompetence, who's to say it can't go on for a century? See the Chicago Cubs fanbase circa 1908...
This is only one man’s opinion. The volume and amount of complaining some of you engage in does not appear happy or pleasant. The reality some of you have created for yourselves seems to lead to inevitable unhappiness. Your lives
My take
This is where I am. Couldn't be happier, except the Giants are a mess.
I recently watched the 1986 and 1990 America's Game shows...they were great. I want to get back to that. It's been a real loss every fall.
This is only one man’s opinion. The volume and amount of complaining some of you engage in does not appear happy or pleasant. The reality some of you have created for yourselves seems to lead to inevitable unhappiness. Your lives
Just because people are unhappy with ineptitude in ownership and general malaise of the franchise doesn't mean it spills over into their life. Not for me at least, I've got a lot more to my life than NYG football even though I'm a full-fledged fanatic.
So far Schoen seems to create a lot of smoke; I don't believe those rumors at all based on the coaching choices and many instances of our beat writers thinking one thing only for Schoen to do something they completely didn't expect. I believe Schoen and Dabs are going to do everything in their power to get a young qb they believe in. If they don't, they will be fired within 1-2 years and we will have unexciting football to cheer for until they get qb right.
There’s no resuscitating the OL when he’s a starter.
"Kamakazi" Wink gone; O-line coach Bobby Johnson gone; we're picking 6th over-all; our young guys looking good already.
With Eagles falling apart, Cowboys remaining "snake-bit", it's our turn to win the East
Quote:
You're free to yours as others are to theirs. You are projecting a fair bit in here btw.
Jon ,there is significant time and energy spent by a vocal minority repeating the same the same thing over and over and when strangers do not agree, they get very angry. It isn’t a good look and it is not healthy.
My take
You're taking this way over-the-top -- these are just preseason precitions nothing more. There is no reason to bury your head in the sand.
This is where I am. Couldn't be happier, except the Giants are a mess.
I recently watched the 1986 and 1990 America's Game shows...they were great. I want to get back to that. It's been a real loss every fall.
Super Bowl 21 is one of my first childhood memories, it's etched in my brain alongside my wedding and my son being born. I really love the Giants, and it's been such a bummer to be talking about the draft, the salary cap, and free agency before it's cold 9 out of the last 11 years.