I know so much of the debate is about Jones and whether NYG will double down on Jones for 2024. But, what if they don't draft a QB high? Does that really say anything about how they feel about Jones? Let's assume for the discussion that both Schoen & Daboll have job security beyond 2024. What if Schoen takes this approach:
1. Does not restructure the Jones contract to create more cap space in 2024.
2. Signs a comparable veteran QB to compete with Jones and someone who could be a viable starter. (Tannehill, Minshew, Taylor, Darnold, Winston for example)
3. Trades down multiple times in the 2024 draft accumulating additional draft picks which include another 2025 first round pick.
Is that approach really doubling down on Jones? I think there needs to be more nuance with the Jones discussion.
I'll say I think drafting a WR at six would be a mistake. That feels like Barkley all over again. You can get WRs all over the draft and I actually think the WRs on the roster now are not bad.
I'm not including any drafted QB outside of the top 50 picks in this hypothetical, any QB taken there won't move the needle much in terms of roster strategy.
Would you be okay with a trade down outcome?
You may find WRa in the draft - but getting a guy like Chase, JJ, Lamb, Hill, or even a guy like Mike Evans - can boost an offense and you can still find a replacement QB.
That's a good point JC but Evan Neal has me gun shy at this point.
If you can do it, maybe it's better to trade down from 6 to take who you like of Nix, Penix, or some other option than it is to trade up from 39 or 47 to do so.
However, there are a few things I believe as of today and if I'm right, nothing will go the way we "think" it will.
1) I think the Bears are sticking with Fields
2) Nix will be higher on the draft boards of teams vs media
The Commanders and Bears are going to flip flop (KK is in DC and Caleb is from there). Once that happens the Bears will take MHjr at 2. There will be lots of unpredictability and opportunity for NYG once that happens.
I’m not sure their are any blue chip edge prospects.
Draft is loaded with OT and WR prospects.
If they trade up to #1, for example, whoever they pick has to be the guy.
If they pass on a blue chip WR at 6 and trade down to grab a QB later, that QB has to be the guy.
Otherwise, take whoever you have at the top of the board at 6.
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QB, WR, Edge, or even OT, pick one at #6 and soldier on. Quality over quantity, NYG is in desperate need of game-changers over quantity.
That's a good point JC but Evan Neal has me gun shy at this point.
I strongly prefer to not move Neal etc, and it would literally be the worst outcome at #6, imv.
A trade down but not to far maybe 5 or 6 spots at most, getting an additional 2nd and 3rd this year / 2nd two Day 3s and a future 2nd rder (Trade up ammo in '25). You can solidify the OL, get a pass rusher and WR.
You give Jones (and the team) the best chance to succeed. Also setting up a rookie QB to have early success in 25 with an overall stronger team. Drafting a QB into a good situation.
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QB, WR, Edge, or even OT, pick one at #6 and soldier on. Quality over quantity, NYG is in desperate need of game-changers over quantity.
That's a good point JC but Evan Neal has me gun shy at this point.
I'm more gun shy over the Toney trade back and passing on Parsons and Slater than I am Neal.
If we don't replace Jones this year, we have to next year. I don't want to be in another scenario where we're 4th in line and there's 3 QBs. At least with a 2nd 1st round pick we'd have the ammo to move up.
If we can't get another first, I wouldn't support moving down more than 1 or 2 spots. I like Oduzne and Nabers a lot but more so I'm hoping an EDGE comes up with a top 10 grade. I want our trenches stronger.
You may find WRa in the draft - but getting a guy like Chase, JJ, Lamb, Hill, or even a guy like Mike Evans - can boost an offense and you can still find a replacement QB.
WR’s are not as oft injured as RB’s and have longer careers as a result. It’s also a passing league now so if you don’t have weapons at the WR position you are in trouble. This team has not had a legit WR1 since OBJ and you are lying to yourself if you don’t think that has something to do with our low points per game.
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Would be similar to that of drafting Barkley.
You may find WRa in the draft - but getting a guy like Chase, JJ, Lamb, Hill, or even a guy like Mike Evans - can boost an offense and you can still find a replacement QB.
WR’s are not as oft injured as RB’s and have longer careers as a result. It’s also a passing league now so if you don’t have weapons at the WR position you are in trouble. This team has not had a legit WR1 since OBJ and you are lying to yourself if you don’t think that has something to do with our low points per game.
Agree. It doesn’t matter when you get the QB or WR. Just go get them.
Not a good draft to trade down imv as, after about the first 7 or 8 names are called, the rest of round 1 and round 2 have prospects of similar value.
I'd understand ... but in my mind you trade down beacuse the top 3 QBs are gone. However the team overall needs a talent influx so long term and short I'd understand. The trade would have to include a 1st in '25 for it to make sense and player(s) that are young, promising and with a good health track record being to be included.
What would be wild if they picked one and traded him for players and picks. Let the draft shake out through a few rds and take offers from teams where you think their haul is better than the single QB.
Would be ok going as far down as 11/12.
Trade pick 39 and 184 to Buffalo for pick 28 and 99
13- Jer'Zhan Newton 3-4 DE Illinois
28- J.J. McCarthy QB Michigan
44- Xavier Legette WR South Carolina
47- Roman Wilson WR Michigan
99- Cade Stover TE Ohio State
107- Zak Zinter G Michigan
139- Max Melton CB Rutgers
free agency:
G we can sign Michael Onwenu or Kevin Dotson (won't be cheap)
OR sign Greg Van Roten as RT (battle with Evan Neal) and Jermaine Eluemunor (cheaper than Onwenu and Dotson)
re-sign Zavier McKinney 5 years
Cut Glowinski and Aaron Robinson
let go Adoree Jackson, Ben Bredeson (raiders OL will replace him)
re-sign Barkley 3 years deal (2 years gtd) 10-11 per year max
cut June 1 Daniel Jones OR cut/trade him at the end of the season next year
restructure: Andrew Thomas and Dexter Lawrence
add a year or 2 on Darius Slayton contract to lower cap hit this season
don't know what to do with Darren Waller... I would give him 1 more year then if he is good he will be cheap the season after, if he suck he won't be a huge cap hit penalty in 2025 (4,9M)
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In comment 16392632 JonC said:
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QB, WR, Edge, or even OT, pick one at #6 and soldier on. Quality over quantity, NYG is in desperate need of game-changers over quantity.
That's a good point JC but Evan Neal has me gun shy at this point.
I'm more gun shy over the Toney trade back and passing on Parsons and Slater than I am Neal.
Sure I get that but I'm sure you could find examples where people made out. What about When TB traded their pic to the Eagles who selected Mike Mamula? And TB too Derek Brooks... lol. Also, pretty much everyone on the planet expected us to take Kwity Paye and no one on the planet expected that stupid Toney pick.
we receive: 28-99
I do think a dark horse pick that I would love would be Dallas Turner.
We need a FA QB regardless of whether we are drafting a QB.
We need guards
We need edge
We DL
+1 … This roster could use upgrades at every position, and Schoen has demonstrated that he can gain value trading down.
And since, IMV, this is a deep day one/day two draft, the idea of trading down from #6 to accumulate more picks for day and day two makes sense.
If we stupidly continue to ride with Jones, a trade down could still net high-end WRs and OLs.
If we don't replace Jones this year, we have to next year. I don't want to be in another scenario where we're 4th in line and there's 3 QBs. At least with a 2nd 1st round pick we'd have the ammo to move up.
If we can't get another first, I wouldn't support moving down more than 1 or 2 spots. I like Oduzne and Nabers a lot but more so I'm hoping an EDGE comes up with a top 10 grade. I want our trenches stronger.
I agree completely. I was going to post virtually the exact same thoughts.
I also trust Schoen to be rational about the QB situation. DJ is on the team next year. Without a doubt. Start him if he can and no other reasonable option presents itself. The silliness with getting rid of him because of the injury guarantee has to stop. The likelihood of that guarantee activating is quite small even if DJ plays and gets hurt. Get another reasonable option at a reasonable price is you can. Not complicated.
either this season or next.
Unlike the last year or two, there is no star player at a position of need likely to be available. The Giants have had just as good results picking outside the Top 10.
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QB, WR, Edge, or even OT, pick one at #6 and soldier on. Quality over quantity, NYG is in desperate need of game-changers over quantity.
This. We are not addressing all of our needs in a legit way this draft. I know we say that every year, but that's the reality. Let's use this premium pick to address one of those needs with a blue chip prospect.
Yep. This roster is far from being ready to win. Draft for talent and fit, rather than try and accelerate the rebuild and destination failure by trying to fill needs with the belief it's a contender.
This is the reason why NYG are in no man's land. Trying to pitch the belief the roster is ready to win, that they have the correct QB to win championships, etc. Get a clue, NYG.
I don't like some of these QB's being mentioned at the top of the draft as some others. Later in the first is better to me if BPA or just take the BPA.
Outside of QB I want to the Giants to hit the front 7 and OL hard. TE/WR if they are BPA. RB if SB goes. More picks will help.
All I want is an AVERAGE NFL offensive line next year, top 10-20.
Two ways to do it. slight trade back (to around 10-12), for QB4 or 5 likely), and trade back into the second half of rd 1 and get 1 WR (like Leggett).
OR, take the stud WR at 6 (like Odunze) and trade back up to around 15 or so, to get QB 4-5. These guys really need to sit a year and learn and improve some of their technical issues.
Jones is under contract and we are stuck with him for next year. I believe the above moves the needle in the right direction.
Having a solid defensive front is so important. He is my dark horse for the 6th pick.
The WR position is very deep and I think we can get a really good one with pick 37.
The other area I would if OL with the 47th pick. A swing tackle with Guard versatility is an important need.
Running Back in the 3rd round is an ideal spot to add a young replacement for Barkley. I really like Estime out of ND.
[quote] would really be stunning is if one of the big three QBs falls to six, and instead of drafting him, the Giants trade down for a haul with a team that moves up to do so. Doing that would take a lot of guts by Schoen and the rest of the FO. I can only imagine the reaction here on BBI. [/quote
Unless they don't like the QB that makes it to 6 I don't see it happening. Jones with his chronic neck injury needs to be backed up with a quality prospect who can take over if he fails or gets reinjured]
[quote] would really be stunning is if one of the big three QBs falls to six, and instead of drafting him, the Giants trade down for a haul with a team that moves up to do so. Doing that would take a lot of guts by Schoen and the rest of the FO. I can only imagine the reaction here on BBI. [/quote
Unless they don't like the QB that makes it to 6 I don't see it happening. Jones with his chronic neck injury needs to be backed up with a quality prospect who can take over if he fails or gets reinjured]
I would not mind if they trade back and picked up an additional 2nd and 3rd - that is all they will get for a slight move back.
Robinson is a weapon, but will never be a foundation WR. Hyatt has the goods, but is still a projection as an alpha. The only crapshoot involved with selecting super-premium scouting service rated WRs is injury, and that is a risk no matter what you do. And please do not bring up Toney. Was not rated in the same ballpark as the big 3 and had numerous enumerated question marks.
Yes 100%. #6 for #>20 and two seconds, or a second and a third?
It would be malpractice not to do it if offered.
I agree, the trade up would be for a qb and it would be with the Chargers or Cardinals to jump ahead of us imo.
We absolutely want to move up to draft a QB. But in the event Schoen can't, we want to grab an impact player at #6 and don't look back.
This draft starts flattening out around #12 and through into round two.
We absolutely want to move up to draft a QB. But in the event Schoen can't, we want to grab an impact player at #6 and don't look back.
This draft starts flattening out around #12 and through into round two.
I like some d line, o line and wr in rd2, rb in rd 3-4 but I agree overall. We need a blue chipper and trading down is very unlikely to provide one.
Bill Belichick, before he lost his fastball, used to say that he would do all he could to get into the top 15, so that’s the demarcation for the 2nd tier. If the Giants could trade down to that area, with some clever combination of trade-downs and trade-ups they might end up with as many as four “top 50” picks. That would be a A-plus draft, given all the holes that need to be filled.
The great thing about accumulating that kind of draft capital - it puts you in a position to trade for HIGH quality, proven vets, if that opportunity is present.
Good young talent, proven vets who are still playing at a high level, that’s the winning combo. Don’t settle for somebody’s “yesterday’s trash”
NFC North rivals agree on trade
Detroit Lions
Green Bay Packers
LIONS RECEIVE:
Round 2, 2023: No. 45 -- DB Brian Branch
PACKERS RECEIVE:
Round 2, 2023: No. 48; Pick traded to Tampa Bay -- OG Cody Mauch
Round 5, 2023: No. 159 (from Jacksonville) -- WR Dontayvion Wicks av 6 (tied 21st best)
Wicks started in 6 games and had 39 receptions, 581 yards and 4 receiving touchdowns. He also had 3 lost fumbles. Wicks was the third leading receiver on the team in yards.
Buccaneers move up two spots for OL
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Green Bay Packers
BUCCANEERS RECEIVE:
Round 2, 2023: No. 48 (from Detroit) -- OG Cody Mauch
PACKERS RECEIVE:
Round 2, 2023: No. 50 -- WR Jayden Reed av 9 (tied 5th best)
Reed started in 13 games and had 64 receptions, 8 touchdown receptions, 2 touchdown rushes, a 10.8 average on 11 rush attempts and 12.4 yards per reception. He was the leading receiver on the team in yards with 793.
Round 6, 2023: No. 179 (From Houston) -- DT Karl Brooks av 2 (tied 78th best out of 230 picks)
Brooks played in 17 games and had 12 solo tackles, 4 sacks, 6 tfl, 5 qb hits, 4 passes defended, 1 forced fumble and 2 fumble recoveries