No one knows more about being a struggling quarterback in New York than Giants Ring of Honoree Phil Simms.
“Unless you are Patrick Mahomes and a few other people, you are going to go through these periods and you just have to fight,” Simms said at the media availability at Super Bowl LVIII on Tuesday, via Newsday.
“Would I have anything to tell Daniel Jones? ‘Hey man, buckle up. It’s going to be rough. Just show how tough you are and do it and just keep working. That’s all you can do.'”
He sees Jones as a top talent who could turn things around quickly but he would like to see more energy and leadership out of the former Duke star.
“He definitely has starting NFL talent,” he said. “That’s the one thing I’ll argue against as long as you want.
Simms on Jones - (
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How fucking patient do we have to be? The Giants have the worst record in the NFL since drafting Jones.
Should we give him 10 years of sucking shit before we lose patience?
If Jones is part of the Giants plans long term then Daboll and Schoen might as well start looking for new jobs because they are going to be fired.
John Mara deserves this shit at this point. But the fans do not
Phil's issues early on were ENTIRELY about injury. Jones can't stay healthy AND can't play- bad combo!
He is absolutely right about Jones needing to show more fire, and that's what Daboll was mad about last year. No problem with yelling at your oline for sucking, or responding to the 49ers players when they talked trash (people compared him to Eli then, but Eli would've had a clever quipp to throw back at them).
The guy is 10th highest paid player in the league and is entering his 6th season. Yet he gets discussed as some 3rd round project.
I completely agree, Daniel Jones looked outstanding last season and there is no reason to believe that he won't be the league MVP next season. He's only been given 5 years to prove himself I think it's only fair to give him 5-10 more.
But no way am I listening to that guy when I get everything I need from BBI posters.
See, this is where I'm more of a skeptic that this is a coordinated campaign to rally support behind Jones, because Simms comments, along with the comments recently made by Banks and Eli, come across as tortured to me. The endorsements are underwhelming.
I wouldn't be surprised if they were actually telling Mara, "listen, I'll make some comments in support of your boy, but you got to start looking to replace him."
What evidence do any of you have that Simms is working on behalf of the Giants organization?
None?
How unpredictable.
Maybe, just maybe, Simms is coming from the position of someone that the organization gave up on, only to make good when given another chance.
This place is fucking ridiculous.
What evidence do any of you have that Simms is working on behalf of the Giants organization?
None?
How unpredictable.
Maybe, just maybe, Simms is coming from the position of someone that the organization gave up on, only to make good when given another chance.
This place is fucking ridiculous.
Perhaps, but Simms situation has as much relevance to Jones as comparing a modern MLB pitcher to one in the 1880s
But definitely sick of players fawning over Jones publicly. We ain’t rubes.
You've got a NYG great who played QB sticking up for what is right now, essentially the starting QB for the NYG.
They are in a faternity. Simms is not going to pound on DJ. That's not how it works and it's certainly not Simms' style.
He'll support Jones until he's no longer the QB. It's really that simple.
If you want a true evaluation of Daniel Jones, go ask Lawrence Taylor LOL
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is just that, bullshit.
What evidence do any of you have that Simms is working on behalf of the Giants organization?
None?
How unpredictable.
Maybe, just maybe, Simms is coming from the position of someone that the organization gave up on, only to make good when given another chance.
This place is fucking ridiculous.
Perhaps, but Simms situation has as much relevance to Jones as comparing a modern MLB pitcher to one in the 1880s
Think that's a bit of a stretch.
There surely are simililarties.
Injuries. Poor play. Benching.
DJ has two of the three covered lol
Plus Jones has the physical components to play the position, just like Simms did, in fact, he's probably more athletic.
Simms probably see a lot of himself in Jones.
Unless Schoen has a hidden killer side, it's a virtual lock Jones will be a Giant this coming season.
He's still got 37M in cash and a guaranteed year coming to him.
Our GM who draft in heaven
Hallow (or was it Harold) be thee name
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In comment 16393280 Hammer said:
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is just that, bullshit.
What evidence do any of you have that Simms is working on behalf of the Giants organization?
None?
How unpredictable.
Maybe, just maybe, Simms is coming from the position of someone that the organization gave up on, only to make good when given another chance.
This place is fucking ridiculous.
Perhaps, but Simms situation has as much relevance to Jones as comparing a modern MLB pitcher to one in the 1880s
Think that's a bit of a stretch.
There surely are simililarties.
Injuries. Poor play. Benching.
DJ has two of the three covered lol
Plus Jones has the physical components to play the position, just like Simms did, in fact, he's probably more athletic.
Simms probably see a lot of himself in Jones.
This is where the similarities end, though: there was no salary cap for the vast majority of Simms's career, there was no unrestricted free agency at the time when the patience with Simms would otherwise be comparable to the patience with Jones, and Simms never occupied 20% of the Giants' payroll.
If DJ was making 4x the average NFL salary (like Simms was) instead of 14x the average NFL salary (as Jones is), I suspect there would not only be more patience, there would be more opportunity to build a better supporting cast, too.
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In comment 16393287 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 16393280 Hammer said:
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is just that, bullshit.
What evidence do any of you have that Simms is working on behalf of the Giants organization?
None?
How unpredictable.
Maybe, just maybe, Simms is coming from the position of someone that the organization gave up on, only to make good when given another chance.
This place is fucking ridiculous.
Perhaps, but Simms situation has as much relevance to Jones as comparing a modern MLB pitcher to one in the 1880s
Think that's a bit of a stretch.
There surely are simililarties.
Injuries. Poor play. Benching.
DJ has two of the three covered lol
Plus Jones has the physical components to play the position, just like Simms did, in fact, he's probably more athletic.
Simms probably see a lot of himself in Jones.
This is where the similarities end, though: there was no salary cap for the vast majority of Simms's career, there was no unrestricted free agency at the time when the patience with Simms would otherwise be comparable to the patience with Jones, and Simms never occupied 20% of the Giants' payroll.
If DJ was making 4x the average NFL salary (like Simms was) instead of 14x the average NFL salary (as Jones is), I suspect there would not only be more patience, there would be more opportunity to build a better supporting cast, too.
And that's well and good and factually correct.
But Simms doesn't care about that - he's just talking DJ at a very high and raw level.
Again, what DJ is going thru is a lot of what Simms went thru and I am sure he sympathizes.
Trust me, when DJ is replaced Simms will be lining up to support that QB - as I think he should.
Jones is going to be the starter next year (assuming he's healthy). They absolutely have to have a young guy be developed to succeed him or it WILL get nasty at the Met.
There's ALSO the possibility, that Jones may take LONGER than 9 months to heal and get back on the field.
Look how long it took Beavers to even get activated. Aaron Robinson has NEVER seen the field again. Surgery techniques have improved by leaps and bounds, but the human body is not a robot where you can Guarantee 9 months.
No Phil Simms, keep your opinions to yourself. As far as his career as the starting QB for the New York Football Giants, Daniel Jones is toast!
Yell at somebody?
Yes, that's the answer to more TDs, more completions, more yardage, more wins, more trophies.
Why didn't I think of that...
This isn't a good look for Simms.
Now which one here wants to give him a short drop and a sudden stop?
The last thing that guy could afford in a make or break year is diminished wheels.
I used to think that those testimonials were always genuine, but then I learned it was often an act of reciprocity (you endorse my book and I'll endorse yours).
I'm reminded of a tweet I saw before the 2023 season saying something like, "Daniel Jones is a top 15 QB, deal with it."
There are only 32 teams. If Jones is the 15th best QB (which he isn't), we need a new QB.
This is why the Giants aren't going to take a QB early? Because Jones has 'starting talent'?
I don't know when the standards dropped so low. This is so, so sad.
How fucking patient do we have to be? The Giants have the worst record in the NFL since drafting Jones.
Should we give him 10 years of sucking shit before we lose patience?
If Jones is part of the Giants plans long term then Daboll and Schoen might as well start looking for new jobs because they are going to be fired.
John Mara deserves this shit at this point. But the fans do not
I talked to Phil this week. Don't want to discuss some of the things he said, but I promise you he is not a Giants PR guy
Am I the only one thinking out loud that his mobility next year is not going to be the same and he’ll largely be a pocket passer? Does that scare anyone else?
As for Simms, what do you expect him to say?
I’ve rarely heard Simms ever say anything critical about a QB. Same thing with Romo. Only one who seems to tell it like it is, is Aikman.
And Aikman absolutely eviscerated Jones as a primary factor for his poor performance in the Cowboys and Seahawks games.
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in full effect trying to prop up Jones.
How fucking patient do we have to be? The Giants have the worst record in the NFL since drafting Jones.
Should we give him 10 years of sucking shit before we lose patience?
If Jones is part of the Giants plans long term then Daboll and Schoen might as well start looking for new jobs because they are going to be fired.
John Mara deserves this shit at this point. But the fans do not
I talked to Phil this week. Don't want to discuss some of the things he said, but I promise you he is not a Giants PR guy
Oh you cannot drop that on this forum and then not tell! Haha. At least give us some breadcrumbs or hints.
Phil's issues early on were ENTIRELY about injury. Jones can't stay healthy AND can't play- bad combo!
Ah, revisionist history. Injuries weren't the reason Parcells picked Brunner to start over Simms. It was the interceptions. In his first six years as a starter he had 103 TDs and 102 INTs. In 1986, his sixth year starting they went 14-2, but he had 21 TDs and 22 INTs. In four of those six years he had more INTs than TDs.
John Mara deserves this shit at this point. But the fans do not
+1
Yeah, but you don't understand and aren't as knowledgeable as the DJHC. Simms, Banks, Papa, Eli, BD, JS and others I can't recall right now, are all shills and just doing what they're told by the Giants. The DJHC are the real QB experts who can evaluate talent.
But no way am I listening to that guy when I get everything I need from BBI posters.
Perfect.
Real commercial in the 80's: "Why does Mike Ditka get his own phone?" (Simms' comment in the skit, a supposed hit on his intellectual level after coming across the dictaphone). Still my fave Giant QB of all time though.
What evidence do any of you have that Simms is working on behalf of the Giants organization?
None?
How unpredictable.
Maybe, just maybe, Simms is coming from the position of someone that the organization gave up on, only to make good when given another chance.
This place is fucking ridiculous.
But it's "common knowledge," like so many other faulty posts on this board.
I'm reminded of a tweet I saw before the 2023 season saying something like, "Daniel Jones is a top 15 QB, deal with it."
There are only 32 teams. If Jones is the 15th best QB (which he isn't), we need a new QB.
This is why the Giants aren't going to take a QB early? Because Jones has 'starting talent'?
I don't know when the standards dropped so low. This is so, so sad.
The standards haven't dropped. Circumstances and bad luck have become powerful excuses.
We are witnessing history with Daniel Jones. The unluckiest player and biggest victim of circumstances in NYG history.
From the beginning even Jones's most ardent defenders have sounded like Simms:
"You can win with Jones."
"Jones can be a top ten or so QB if things break right."
"You know Jones is going to work hard."
Why aren't we trying to do better than that? I don't understand it.
I feel similarly about the head coach situation. No one seriously believes that Daboll is a better head coach than Belichick or Vrabel...so why haven't the Giants interviewed those guys?
Giants' football has been shambolic for a decade, and they are not doing everything they can to change that. I don't understand it. I've never been more frustrated as a sports fan.
John Mara deserves another Super Bowl trophy at this point. But some fans do not.
In this regard, we lead the league in something.
Too bad winning still matter.
*bubble bursts*
Don't worry about it these guys are on a roll...
From the beginning even Jones's most ardent defenders have sounded like Simms:
"You can win with Jones."
"Jones can be a top ten or so QB if things break right."
"You know Jones is going to work hard."
Why aren't we trying to do better than that? I don't understand it.
I feel similarly about the head coach situation. No one seriously believes that Daboll is a better head coach than Belichick or Vrabel...so why haven't the Giants interviewed those guys?
Giants' football has been shambolic for a decade, and they are not doing everything they can to change that. I don't understand it. I've never been more frustrated as a sports fan.
It's infuriating.
I said it before.
It's not a meritocracy. It's a MARA-TOCRACY.
I’ve never viewed Simms as a shill for the Giants. He’s had a pretty respectable career as a commentator.
In this regard, we lead the league in something.
Too bad winning still matter.
If they believed he is on that level then they should probably commit to him long term. However I think it's far more likely he's on the hot seat.
That may be the most preposterous sentence you have ever written at BBI.
In 2022, Daboll and Vrabel went head to head. I don’t care about the outcome and score but I don’t remember Daboll getting schooled.
The guy who takes Daboll out to the woodshed is Pete Carroll, btw.
I also think Vrabel is a good HC.
I'm on the record that I think there's a very strong possibility that BB is our next HC. Regardless of those recent reports, I think he's very fond of the organization & Mara loves him. It has a very full circle feel. But we'll see.
In 2022, Daboll and Vrabel went head to head. I don’t care about the outcome and score but I don’t remember Daboll getting schooled.
The guy who takes Daboll out to the woodshed is Pete Carroll, btw.
Yes, I think BB is still an elite coach. But BB the GM has negatively impacted the coach. A few years ago, I heard an interview with Urban Meyer who is a good friend of BB. Meyer said - and this was after Brady left - that BB told him that he had reached a point in his career where he was actually more interested in coaching players that he liked than getting the best talent. I believe that is at least part of the reason why the Pats have stumbled.
Vrabel has just done it longer and better than Daboll and his reputation is excellent.
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You know I agree with you on Jones but I’m not convinced Vrabel or a 72 year old BB are better than Diaboli.
If they believed he is on that level then they should probably commit to him long term. However I think it's far more likely he's on the hot seat.
I’m with you on Jones as well. But you’re an absolute moron with this Belichick shit. Just STFU. The dude is 72 years old and hasn’t won shit since Brady left. That teams talent that he left them with make the Giants look like the 49ers by comparison.
We all love Bill. But it’s over. He’s not that guy anymore. And even if he were, he has maybe two years left. Just stop. This isn’t 2017 anymore. This shit works in your Madden franchise, which is where all your ideas come from, but it’s not real life.
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Please explain. Do you think Belichick is still an elite coach at his age?
In 2022, Daboll and Vrabel went head to head. I don’t care about the outcome and score but I don’t remember Daboll getting schooled.
The guy who takes Daboll out to the woodshed is Pete Carroll, btw.
Yes, I think BB is still an elite coach. But BB the GM has negatively impacted the coach. A few years ago, I heard an interview with Urban Meyer who is a good friend of BB. Meyer said - and this was after Brady left - that BB told him that he had reached a point in his career where he was actually more interested in coaching players that he liked than getting the best talent. I believe that is at least part of the reason why the Pats have stumbled.
Vrabel has just done it longer and better than Daboll and his reputation is excellent.
Yet neither one got a job. Stop following GoTerps like you’re his lapdog. It’s pathetic.
Yet neither one got a job. Stop following GoTerps like you’re his lapdog. It’s pathetic.
Drinking and posting is not a good look.
Lay off the sauce.
Mike Vrabel: 13-21
Bill Beluchick: 12-22
And just like Vrabel & Belichick, Daboll did not have above average QB play. A lot of fans seem very quick to want to move off Daboll.
What does that mean?
I feel similarly about the head coach situation. No one seriously believes that Daboll is a better head coach than Belichick or Vrabel...so why haven't the Giants interviewed those guys?
Again, this is crazy talk.
Why limit to the Giants? Why are other teams that have HCs that would be deemed lesser not interview these guys too?
And what would they do, interview them under the covers?
You're again playing fantasy GM in a fantasy world.
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I feel similarly about the head coach situation. No one seriously believes that Daboll is a better head coach than Belichick or Vrabel...so why haven't the Giants interviewed those guys?
Again, this is crazy talk.
Why limit to the Giants? Why are other teams that have HCs that would be deemed lesser not interview these guys too?
And what would they do, interview them under the covers?
You're again playing fantasy GM in a fantasy world.
No GM would want to hire them because in most cases they'd threaten the GM's job. Hiring one of those guys is an owner call.
No fantasy about it. It's pretty obvious.
There must be a reason .
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In comment 16393487 Go Terps said:
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I feel similarly about the head coach situation. No one seriously believes that Daboll is a better head coach than Belichick or Vrabel...so why haven't the Giants interviewed those guys?
Again, this is crazy talk.
Why limit to the Giants? Why are other teams that have HCs that would be deemed lesser not interview these guys too?
And what would they do, interview them under the covers?
You're again playing fantasy GM in a fantasy world.
No GM would want to hire them because in most cases they'd threaten the GM's job. Hiring one of those guys is an owner call.
No fantasy about it. It's pretty obvious.
Your kinda a cross between George Steinbrenner and Jerry Jones.
Kooky owner who just fires, hires, and trades on a whim.
But again - why aren't other owners with currently entrenched GM/HC's interviewing both?
Speculation is Blank wanted BB to fit into the current decision-making structure in place and not upend it with his vision.
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In comment 16393626 BillKo said:
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In comment 16393487 Go Terps said:
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I feel similarly about the head coach situation. No one seriously believes that Daboll is a better head coach than Belichick or Vrabel...so why haven't the Giants interviewed those guys?
Again, this is crazy talk.
Why limit to the Giants? Why are other teams that have HCs that would be deemed lesser not interview these guys too?
And what would they do, interview them under the covers?
You're again playing fantasy GM in a fantasy world.
No GM would want to hire them because in most cases they'd threaten the GM's job. Hiring one of those guys is an owner call.
No fantasy about it. It's pretty obvious.
Your kinda a cross between George Steinbrenner and Jerry Jones.
Kooky owner who just fires, hires, and trades on a whim.
But again - why aren't other owners with currently entrenched GM/HC's interviewing both?
No, that's Mara.
He knows more than all of you about being an NFL quarterback
The first sack at 1:51 is the slot db, unblocked. Aikman was very critical of Jones on the broadcast, saying that risk is at the top of the list of things a QB has to check for when he comes to the line. And Jones was oblivious.
The game is infamous for the pick 6, the tablet throw, and Devon Witherspoon's comment that the league knows Jones stares down his first option.
The brief crowd shot at 10:25 after Jones' second INT in the 4Q (bald guy in LT jersey) sums up where NYG fans are, generally, on DJ.
And they can't, seriously, be blamed for being impatient.
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He knows more than all of you about being an NFL quarterback
That doesn’t make him right, it just made him capable of PLAYING QB.
Hypothetically though, let’s say the Giants HAD given up on Simms early in his career. They could have drafted Jim Kelly or Dan Marino in 1983 instead of Terry Kinard.
Do you think they might have been okay with either of those guys?
this is now 12 years of really horrible management.. with all the things that they need to make DJ look like an average player, I am not sure they can afford to pay him $40M/yr..
Surround him with more talent while he gets paid like Mahomes? Do you think it can work out like that?
this is now 12 years of really horrible management.. with all the things that they need to make DJ look like an average player, I am not sure they can afford to pay him $40M/yr..
Call me naive if you must... but I don't agree that Simms, or even Tiki Barber, are part of the Giants propaganda machine you refer to. I would agree that a proganda machine would include Dotino, Paul Schwartz, Carl Banks, and Bob Papa. But IMHO, I don't think Phil Simms is a shill for the Giants.
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the Giants propaganda machine is going full throttle on this Daniel Jones Band Wagon.. Jones didn't deserve the contract he got.. he was overpaid by about 8-10M/yr.. Now instead of coaches just showing support for their guy that they are stuck with, the team is using talking heads to relay their message.
this is now 12 years of really horrible management.. with all the things that they need to make DJ look like an average player, I am not sure they can afford to pay him $40M/yr..
Call me naive if you must... but I don't agree that Simms, or even Tiki Barber, are part of the Giants propaganda machine you refer to. I would agree that a proganda machine would include Dotino, Paul Schwartz, Carl Banks, and Bob Papa. But IMHO, I don't think Phil Simms is a shill for the Giants.
I also didn't think Phil Simms was a Giants Shill.. but too many people are randomly talking about supporting Jones.. and they are all Giants related.. and when the well known Shills do it, I get worried that management as their mind made up and just want to convince the fans..
Come now. Either he's the guy or he's not.
And the guy on the field against Seattle on MNF is not the guy.
Look, it is just a fact that every player who has talent will become a really good player. If they work hard and have talent, it happens 100% of the time. You can't ever move on from a guy who has talent and works hard. If you believe in a player hard enough, you will always be rewarded.
I don't know about you guys, but I will watch the Giants lose for another 10 years as long as at the end of that time, we can look back on the past 15 years and say "We did everything we could to help Daniel Jones succeed."
Success in the NFL is not measured by wins and losses. You can't measure a player based on performance. It isn't even about getting the most out of all your players. It is about making sure one player feels like he was loved and supported.
Let other teams win Superbowls. I'd rather fail with Daniel Jones than win with anybody else. He's a swell guy.
Yeah I'm not losing sleep over these comments by Simms, Banks, Eli. Their statements of support are pretty underwhelming. It sounds more like trying not to kick a guy while he's down then delivering marching orders from Mara.
By the time he entered his 6th season, Simms had 34 starts.
In contrast, Jones has had 61 career starts entering his 6th season.
By the time Simms hit his 61st career start, it was in the middle of 1985, the Giants were 7-4 and heading to their second straight playoff birth, and Simms was in the middle of his second straight solid season.
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Quite the compliment Phil. You smooth talker you.
Yeah I'm not losing sleep over these comments by Simms, Banks, Eli. Their statements of support are pretty underwhelming. It sounds more like trying not to kick a guy while he's down then delivering marching orders from Mara.
Underwhelming to say the least.
With the backdrop of giving Jones a 4-year extension with $92M of guarantees, these comments by Simms are a flat out insult to both Jones' ability and Schoen's judgment.
By the time he entered his 6th season, Simms had 34 starts.
In contrast, Jones has had 61 career starts entering his 6th season.
By the time Simms hit his 61st career start, it was in the middle of 1985, the Giants were 7-4 and heading to their second straight playoff birth, and Simms was in the middle of his second straight solid season.
Also, and I can't emphasize this enough, it was 40 fucking years ago, and 10 years before the salary cap was instituted.
At this point any conversation about Jones from anyone is just speculation. Let's see if the Giants sign a vet QB or draft a QB and let's see when Jones is healthy enough to play in 2024.
Hopefully this is the last year we have to go through this crap with Jones and Barkley but considering these are the NY Giants it's probably not.
By the time he entered his 6th season, Simms had 34 starts.
In contrast, Jones has had 61 career starts entering his 6th season.
By the time Simms hit his 61st career start, it was in the middle of 1985, the Giants were 7-4 and heading to their second straight playoff birth, and Simms was in the middle of his second straight solid season.
Good context. Although really shouldn't even be needed as any debate is silly due to how NFL contracts, cap and QB timelines have radically changed over these decades.
How much more “patience”? He’s had 5 seasons where he hasn’t performed at a high level, hasn’t won and is a major injury risk.
And he’s the 10th highest paid player in the league. Not so easy to surround him with more talent. And exactly what other talent does he need?
By the time he entered his 6th season, Simms had 34 starts.
In contrast, Jones has had 61 career starts entering his 6th season.
By the time Simms hit his 61st career start, it was in the middle of 1985, the Giants were 7-4 and heading to their second straight playoff birth, and Simms was in the middle of his second straight solid season.
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do well in the draft by getting olinemen and wr's to help Jones. They also need to upgrade their defense, they need to be able to stop the gashing run's up the middle, how many have they lost because they were giving up huge yards up the middle late in games.
I understand patient, but this is year 6 coming up.
Danny Breadsticks is never ending
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Phil missed 2 entire early career seasons due to injuries + benching.
By the time he entered his 6th season, Simms had 34 starts.
In contrast, Jones has had 61 career starts entering his 6th season.
By the time Simms hit his 61st career start, it was in the middle of 1985, the Giants were 7-4 and heading to their second straight playoff birth, and Simms was in the middle of his second straight solid season.
Good context. Although really shouldn't even be needed as any debate is silly due to how NFL contracts, cap and QB timelines have radically changed over these decades.
Under the current system, it's certainly fair to wonder whether the Giants would have picked up Simms's 5th year (1983) option after 1981. They wouldn't have known he would get hurt during the 1982 preseason, but either way they would have been sitting at #7 in the QB rich 1983 draft with Simms either entering free agency or with one year left on his contract coming off a major injury.
The first sack at 1:51 is the slot db, unblocked. Aikman was very critical of Jones on the broadcast, saying that risk is at the top of the list of things a QB has to check for when he comes to the line. And Jones was oblivious.
The game is infamous for the pick 6, the tablet throw, and Devon Witherspoon's comment that the league knows Jones stares down his first option.
The brief crowd shot at 10:25 after Jones' second INT in the 4Q (bald guy in LT jersey) sums up where NYG fans are, generally, on DJ.
And they can't, seriously, be blamed for being impatient.
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There isn't one person with a pulse that doesn't acknowledge DJ's struggles last season.
Carry on.
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Jones last full game of the 2023 season, his last game at MetLife, and one of his worst games as a Giant.
The first sack at 1:51 is the slot db, unblocked. Aikman was very critical of Jones on the broadcast, saying that risk is at the top of the list of things a QB has to check for when he comes to the line. And Jones was oblivious.
The game is infamous for the pick 6, the tablet throw, and Devon Witherspoon's comment that the league knows Jones stares down his first option.
The brief crowd shot at 10:25 after Jones' second INT in the 4Q (bald guy in LT jersey) sums up where NYG fans are, generally, on DJ.
And they can't, seriously, be blamed for being impatient.
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There isn't one person with a pulse that doesn't acknowledge DJ's struggles last season.
Carry on.
I've seen plenty of posters here blame his struggles last season on injuries, Oline, strength of schedule, and a blocked FG that somehow made him horrendous the remaining 3.5 quarters of the Dallas game.
And struggles is putting it nicely. He played like the worst QB in the league and some people want to act like it's no big deal.
By the time he entered his 6th season, Simms had 34 starts.
In contrast, Jones has had 61 career starts entering his 6th season.
By the time Simms hit his 61st career start, it was in the middle of 1985, the Giants were 7-4 and heading to their second straight playoff birth, and Simms was in the middle of his second straight solid season.
Excellent recap.
And people can ignore it all they want, but the economics of today's NFL are vastly different than the '80s. Which reduces being patient on highly drafted players who just signed a big second contract.
Simms is not thinking clearly on this.
When Simms defends Jones so emphatically, and absolutely vouches for skills, he has no vested interest in doing so and I will take his opinion over all the mere fans who detract from Jones.
If you are looking for an excuse for Jones, you will never find a more legitimate one than that the line gave up 85 sacks, the second highest in league history. Up from 49 the season before when Jones was successful.
The sudden emergence of the theory that the quarterback is responsible for a third to a half of the sacks will find little support among all the GMs who have put up big bucks for pass protection.
Jones also was without Barkley in his last three games. Jones and Barkley really benefitted from each other in 2022. The optional handoff to Barkley hitting the left side or Jones keeping and going to the other side was a very effective play. Barkley also caught a lot of dump-off passes to prevent sacks.
The team would be negligent not to give Jones another shot next season, given all that they have invested in him. If he fails next season through poor play or injuries, then they can move on without regret.
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He was hurt a lot early on with a poor offensive line and not much talent around him on offense.
He knows more than all of you about being an NFL quarterback
That doesn’t make him right, it just made him capable of PLAYING QB.
Hypothetically though, let’s say the Giants HAD given up on Simms early in his career. They could have drafted Jim Kelly or Dan Marino in 1983 instead of Terry Kinard.
Do you think they might have been okay with either of those guys?
Doesn't make Simms right? Oh, I guess the DJHC knows more about QB play then Simms.
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Phil missed 2 entire early career seasons due to injuries + benching.
By the time he entered his 6th season, Simms had 34 starts.
In contrast, Jones has had 61 career starts entering his 6th season.
By the time Simms hit his 61st career start, it was in the middle of 1985, the Giants were 7-4 and heading to their second straight playoff birth, and Simms was in the middle of his second straight solid season.
Phil could throw any pattern, put touch on the ball and had a strong accurate arm. Without all the injuries and Parcells' brain fart to start Brunner or Young's decision to prematurely end his career, you might have been looking at a HOF career.
I thought we were talking about Simms opinion of DJ not Simms performance.
By the time he entered his 6th season, Simms had 34 starts.
In contrast, Jones has had 61 career starts entering his 6th season.
By the time Simms hit his 61st career start, it was in the middle of 1985, the Giants were 7-4 and heading to their second straight playoff birth, and Simms was in the middle of his second straight solid season.
When Simms was ready he had a championship caliber roster.
The 2023 Giants were a bottom fifth of the league roster with the worst OL in the NFL
When Simms defends Jones so emphatically, and absolutely vouches for skills, he has no vested interest in doing so and I will take his opinion over all the mere fans who detract from Jones.
If you are looking for an excuse for Jones, you will never find a more legitimate one than that the line gave up 85 sacks, the second highest in league history. Up from 49 the season before when Jones was successful.
The sudden emergence of the theory that the quarterback is responsible for a third to a half of the sacks will find little support among all the GMs who have put up big bucks for pass protection.
Jones also was without Barkley in his last three games. Jones and Barkley really benefitted from each other in 2022. The optional handoff to Barkley hitting the left side or Jones keeping and going to the other side was a very effective play. Barkley also caught a lot of dump-off passes to prevent sacks.
The team would be negligent not to give Jones another shot next season, given all that they have invested in him. If he fails next season through poor play or injuries, then they can move on without regret.
The sudden emergence of the implication that any QB is simply the product of their environment and bears no responsibility for his own shitty play is just as invalid by your own logic. Go look at the dough those same GMs fork over for QBs.
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In comment 16393663 uconngiant said:
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He was hurt a lot early on with a poor offensive line and not much talent around him on offense.
He knows more than all of you about being an NFL quarterback
That doesn’t make him right, it just made him capable of PLAYING QB.
Hypothetically though, let’s say the Giants HAD given up on Simms early in his career. They could have drafted Jim Kelly or Dan Marino in 1983 instead of Terry Kinard.
Do you think they might have been okay with either of those guys?
Doesn't make Simms right? Oh, I guess the DJHC knows more about QB play then Simms.
If former players were the sole arbiters of determining whether a player has the goods or not, why isn't every single NFL scout and GM a former NFL player?
Would you agree that your logic would suggest that Isiah Thomas, for example, would be an infallible NBA GM? Certainly he would know more about basketball skills than someone who never played, right?
Including their QB1.
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Jones last full game of the 2023 season, his last game at MetLife, and one of his worst games as a Giant.
The first sack at 1:51 is the slot db, unblocked. Aikman was very critical of Jones on the broadcast, saying that risk is at the top of the list of things a QB has to check for when he comes to the line. And Jones was oblivious.
The game is infamous for the pick 6, the tablet throw, and Devon Witherspoon's comment that the league knows Jones stares down his first option.
The brief crowd shot at 10:25 after Jones' second INT in the 4Q (bald guy in LT jersey) sums up where NYG fans are, generally, on DJ.
And they can't, seriously, be blamed for being impatient.
youtube - ( New Window )
There isn't one person with a pulse that doesn't acknowledge DJ's struggles last season.
Carry on.
Absolutely savage that you just accused at least a dozen BBI posters of being dead.
I truly can't believe they may run it back with him. It's insanity to me. He is not a good quarterback, not debatable.
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In comment 16393663 uconngiant said:
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He was hurt a lot early on with a poor offensive line and not much talent around him on offense.
He knows more than all of you about being an NFL quarterback
That doesn’t make him right, it just made him capable of PLAYING QB.
Hypothetically though, let’s say the Giants HAD given up on Simms early in his career. They could have drafted Jim Kelly or Dan Marino in 1983 instead of Terry Kinard.
Do you think they might have been okay with either of those guys?
Doesn't make Simms right? Oh, I guess the DJHC knows more about QB play then Simms.
I didn't say I know more than Phil Simms, I just said his opinion about Jones shouldn't be regarded as fact. I'm quite certain Phil Simms has been wrong about a football player before. Maybe even more than once.
It's also a fact that the players around Jones were hampered by a really bad QB.
This isn't rec football. Jones doesn't deserve an opportunity. Like everyone else he should be made to earn it. He's had more opportunity than he's earned.
Even if Jones were better than the bad QB he is, shouldn't we be trying to improve instead of finding reasons to give him more opportunities?
How about we get better players in the QB room and *gasp* make him compete for his job?
Another aspect of the Giants' loser culture: jobs are bequeathed rather than earned.
I truly can't believe they may run it back with him. It's insanity to me. He is not a good quarterback, not debatable.
The new line is that if he "fails" in 2024, it'll be time to move on. Of course I'm yet to see a definition of what failure looks like.
My guess is if the Giants win 7 games and Jones totals somewhere around 20 TDs, we'll be right back here and the same people will be telling us we need to stick with him.
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In comment 16393691 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 16393663 uconngiant said:
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He was hurt a lot early on with a poor offensive line and not much talent around him on offense.
He knows more than all of you about being an NFL quarterback
That doesn’t make him right, it just made him capable of PLAYING QB.
Hypothetically though, let’s say the Giants HAD given up on Simms early in his career. They could have drafted Jim Kelly or Dan Marino in 1983 instead of Terry Kinard.
Do you think they might have been okay with either of those guys?
Doesn't make Simms right? Oh, I guess the DJHC knows more about QB play then Simms.
If former players were the sole arbiters of determining whether a player has the goods or not, why isn't every single NFL scout and GM a former NFL player?
Would you agree that your logic would suggest that Isiah Thomas, for example, would be an infallible NBA GM? Certainly he would know more about basketball skills than someone who never played, right?
No one is infallible but a former player certainly has more knoledge of the sport than the average fan.
Phil is an ex Giant. Phil is an ex QB. Phil is loyal. Phil has lived in this market for about 45 years. Phil knows how the NFL has changed and how difficult Daniel Jones' job is.
But the Giants have been more than patient in NFL terms with Daniel Jones. Daniel Jones has been dealt a bad hand. Bad ownership decisions, bad front office decisions and bad coaching for most of his time with the Giants have had him playing on bad teams.
During the season for 6 days a week Daniel Jones is everything you want in a QB. Good athlete, good size, tough/brave as hell, hard worker, model citizen.
Sadly though on game day Daniel Jones is high on the list of bad ownership decisions, bad front office decisions and a huge part of why he plays on bad teams.
Just my .2 cents but the Giants are not going to become a playoff contender with Daniel Jones as their QB. I fully expect him to play as the Giants #1 QB as long as he's healthy in 2024 and expect the same results he's provided since he's been the Giants QB #1. We'll see if he gets another coaching staff fired or if they can survive him.
I am hoping that he will not be on the Giants roster for the 2025 season.
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In comment 16393691 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 16393663 uconngiant said:
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He was hurt a lot early on with a poor offensive line and not much talent around him on offense.
He knows more than all of you about being an NFL quarterback
That doesn’t make him right, it just made him capable of PLAYING QB.
Hypothetically though, let’s say the Giants HAD given up on Simms early in his career. They could have drafted Jim Kelly or Dan Marino in 1983 instead of Terry Kinard.
Do you think they might have been okay with either of those guys?
Doesn't make Simms right? Oh, I guess the DJHC knows more about QB play then Simms.
I didn't say I know more than Phil Simms, I just said his opinion about Jones shouldn't be regarded as fact. I'm quite certain Phil Simms has been wrong about a football player before. Maybe even more than once.
You're right, his opinion can certainly be wrong, just as many on this board. Do you think his opinion should carry a little more weight than a fan who's never played in the NFL?
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In comment 16394015 kickoff said:
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In comment 16393691 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 16393663 uconngiant said:
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He was hurt a lot early on with a poor offensive line and not much talent around him on offense.
He knows more than all of you about being an NFL quarterback
That doesn’t make him right, it just made him capable of PLAYING QB.
Hypothetically though, let’s say the Giants HAD given up on Simms early in his career. They could have drafted Jim Kelly or Dan Marino in 1983 instead of Terry Kinard.
Do you think they might have been okay with either of those guys?
Doesn't make Simms right? Oh, I guess the DJHC knows more about QB play then Simms.
I didn't say I know more than Phil Simms, I just said his opinion about Jones shouldn't be regarded as fact. I'm quite certain Phil Simms has been wrong about a football player before. Maybe even more than once.
You're right, his opinion can certainly be wrong, just as many on this board. Do you think his opinion should carry a little more weight than a fan who's never played in the NFL?
Depends on the opinion, not the person.
You're right, his opinion can certainly be wrong, just as many on this board. Do you think his opinion should carry a little more weight than a fan who's never played in the NFL?
I think his opinion should be given the appropriate weight, and evaluated for any biases that may be present based on his own personal experience.
Simms, like Jones, faced many doubters early in his career. Perhaps that's causing him to lose some objectivity in evaluating Jones as a player.
And I'm certain we can find other former NFL QBs who think differently about Jones - do their opinions matter as much as Phil's?
When Simms defends Jones so emphatically, and absolutely vouches for skills, he has no vested interest in doing so and I will take his opinion over all the mere fans who detract from Jones.
I didn't think Simms' comments were emphatic. I thought they were actually kind of back-handed, including lines like "I believe he has the talent to be a starting NFL QB," telling him it would be tough to win back the fans, and criticizing him for not yelling at his offensive linemen (ie not showing leadership).
In my assessment, Eli, Banks, and Simms sound kind of tired of defending the guy.
They really need to have a back-up plan, either through the draft or a starting-level veteran. I think it'll get quite ugly without one.
They really need to have a back-up plan, either through the draft or a starting-level veteran. I think it'll get quite ugly without one.
*not feeling much confidence.
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In comment 16394015 kickoff said:
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In comment 16393691 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 16393663 uconngiant said:
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He was hurt a lot early on with a poor offensive line and not much talent around him on offense.
He knows more than all of you about being an NFL quarterback
That doesn’t make him right, it just made him capable of PLAYING QB.
Hypothetically though, let’s say the Giants HAD given up on Simms early in his career. They could have drafted Jim Kelly or Dan Marino in 1983 instead of Terry Kinard.
Do you think they might have been okay with either of those guys?
Doesn't make Simms right? Oh, I guess the DJHC knows more about QB play then Simms.
I didn't say I know more than Phil Simms, I just said his opinion about Jones shouldn't be regarded as fact. I'm quite certain Phil Simms has been wrong about a football player before. Maybe even more than once.
You're right, his opinion can certainly be wrong, just as many on this board. Do you think his opinion should carry a little more weight than a fan who's never played in the NFL?
hmmm, a Super Bowl mvp or the keyboard critics ..... tough call
What sucks is being a Giants fan and watching them play.
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To be a giants fan and hate the QB GM Head Coach and owner , and think you are smarter than all of them….. Back in your moms basement and play your Madden game .
What sucks is being a Giants fan and watching them play.
You must have missed 2022 when our coach won coach of the year in his first year with the team and they won a playoff game. Did that suck watching them then?
He literally can't. In 2022, his magical year that apparently gives him more job security and a Supreme Court Justice, he completed 13 passes of at least 10 yards outside the numbers from the pocket. He shrinks the field, even in his best year
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Jones can make the throws you want and can play at the level that is necessary to be a consistent playoff team. If he's not being pressured at historic levels next season, chances are he will look way better, shocking I know.
He literally can't. In 2022, his magical year that apparently gives him more job security and a Supreme Court Justice, he completed 13 passes of at least 10 yards outside the numbers from the pocket. He shrinks the field, even in his best year
In fairness to ryan, he didn’t say Jones can make ALL the throws, he said he can make the throws you want. So apparently “you” don’t want any throws outside the numbers.
I'd love to trust the Giants, but at this point, forget advanced stats...given that they're comparing a guy who had 34 starts entering their 6th season versus someone whose had 61 starts, I'd like to see them show that they have the ability to look at two sets of numbers and draw an accurate comparison.
Don’t you want better as a fan? I will never understand this perspective from fans.
I want to try find the next Josh Allen. Not hope Jones miraculously becomes a top nfl QB in his 6th season.
There are 53 guys on this roster. All of them are important, but none more so than Daniel Jones. He works hard and he keep his nose clean. He is great with the media and he is the face of the franchise. He has to be made to succeed!
Team success is nice and all, but if it comes without Daniel Jones, why does it matter? Who would enjoy that?
The 2024 season is about Daniel Jones. Not the Giants. Daniel Jones. We need to make him succeed at all costs because he is our Daniel!
Astounding to me that you continue to try and drink from a mirage
You really think they can build a legit contender around Jones with his contract?
And do the games Jones played in 2023 and prior seasons not count?
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In comment 16394039 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 16394015 kickoff said:
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In comment 16393691 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 16393663 uconngiant said:
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He was hurt a lot early on with a poor offensive line and not much talent around him on offense.
He knows more than all of you about being an NFL quarterback
That doesn’t make him right, it just made him capable of PLAYING QB.
Hypothetically though, let’s say the Giants HAD given up on Simms early in his career. They could have drafted Jim Kelly or Dan Marino in 1983 instead of Terry Kinard.
Do you think they might have been okay with either of those guys?
Doesn't make Simms right? Oh, I guess the DJHC knows more about QB play then Simms.
I didn't say I know more than Phil Simms, I just said his opinion about Jones shouldn't be regarded as fact. I'm quite certain Phil Simms has been wrong about a football player before. Maybe even more than once.
You're right, his opinion can certainly be wrong, just as many on this board. Do you think his opinion should carry a little more weight than a fan who's never played in the NFL?
hmmm, a Super Bowl mvp or the keyboard critics ..... tough call
Smashing success? 😂🤣😂
This is why we will never agree. You want a 30 for 30 done on the ‘22 season and the historic season that Daniel Jones had by dragging a terrible roster to the playoffs all by himself.
I see a season where they caught a ton of breaks, won a bunch of close games within a very fortunately light schedule and they backed into the playoffs after struggling mightily the 2nd half of the season because they played in a putrid conference in a league where bad teams are going to be making the playoffs every season because almost half the league gets in now. This was a team that had a NEGATIVE point differential and got very little from the passing game. I see a season that every single expert looked at that point differential and told the world that wasn’t a sustainable model for future success and they got mocked by the fans that equate a Wild Card win against another team with a negative point differential as a historical season. Then they get their shit kicked in when the played a true contender. Yeah, smashing success.
Your standards absolutely suck.