Here we go boys. A full year of hearing discussion on whether our guy is a first ballot Hall of Famer. Here's the list of first time eligibles.
First-time eligibles for the Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 2025 include:
🏈Eli Manning
🏈Luke Kuechly
🏈Adam Vinatieri
🏈Terrell Suggs
🏈Marshal Yanda
🏈Marshawn Lynch
🏈Earl Thomas
🏈Joe Staley
🏈Demaryius Thomas
🏈Aqib Talib
🏈Vernon Davis
🏈Darren Sproles
🏈Cameron Wake
If I was voting, a guy is a HOFer or he's not.
It's so hard to win super bowls, recent history has proved this. It's a lot of Brady, Manning & Mahomes. Add in his durability and it's an easy decision imo.
The 49'ers haven't won a super bowl since 1994. The Cowboys haven't won since 1995. It's fucking hard. And Eli navigated the postseason twice to win super bowls.
Spot on.
Stats are misleading with Eli too. He was a much better player than the stats showed mainly because he was less risk averse than many other QBs. A trait that directly lead to the plays that brought 2 titles to New York.
Eli Manning
Joe Staley
Adam Vinatieri
Terrell Suggs
would be my picks
if he doesnt get in first ballot, it will be do to the draft day trade they orchestrated and people who just dont like the mannings. which means nothing cause his play on the field for so long earns him a first ballot invite.
If I was voting, a guy is a HOFer or he's not.
I agree.
It's kind of like how someone voted against Tom Seaver. How TF did anyone vote against Seaver?
I'm not putting Eli in Seaver's class (I love them both), but Eli definitely deserves the HOF and there's no legit reason why it shouldn't be on the first ballot.
If I was voting, a guy is a HOFer or he's not.
This x 1,000. Such an old time mentality. That's how Jeter and Rivera have the two highest vote percentages in baseball. These damn voters used to have this bizarre mentality. No offense to those two, but there are perhaps dozens of other players before them that had even more impressive cases to be HOFers and should have been unanimous.
Vinateri may be a first ballot but not sure voters will put a kicker in first ballot. Eli has a 50/50 chance being first ballot.
I think you summarized it well for that list of candidates.
Eli is 50/50 first ballot, but he'll get in eventually. A lot will also depend who is due from prior years, and that could shuffle Eli back in the line.
It also wasn't his fault that the only thing his receivers could catch in GB in Jan of '17, was a cold (which the idiots prolly did after running around shirtless pre-game).
It is just the first time they are eligible. Guys like Brandon Phillips and James Shields were eligible to be voted on for baseball. If they don't get a certain percentage in baseball, they are off the ballot for next year. Not sure if something similar happens in football.
How else are they supposed to do it? Take people off the ballot who someone doesn't think is a HOFer? No, you let voters vote for eligible players. There are people who didn't vote for Hank Aaron or Willie Mays or Ted Williams for the HOF.
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first ballot vs not is silly..
If I was voting, a guy is a HOFer or he's not.
This x 1,000. Such an old time mentality. That's how Jeter and Rivera have the two highest vote percentages in baseball. These damn voters used to have this bizarre mentality. No offense to those two, but there are perhaps dozens of other players before them that had even more impressive cases to be HOFers and should have been unanimous.
Like Tom Terrific. How much of a wingnut do you have to be to not vote for him?
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In comment 16393766 moze1021 said:
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first ballot vs not is silly..
If I was voting, a guy is a HOFer or he's not.
This x 1,000. Such an old time mentality. That's how Jeter and Rivera have the two highest vote percentages in baseball. These damn voters used to have this bizarre mentality. No offense to those two, but there are perhaps dozens of other players before them that had even more impressive cases to be HOFers and should have been unanimous.
Like Tom Terrific. How much of a wingnut do you have to be to not vote for him?
Probably a list of 40-50 baseball players you could say the same about.
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I'm on the fence if he's 1st ballot or not. Managerial incompetence in his later years really tainted his career.
Every other 2 time Super Bowl MVP is in the HOF. It would be asinine to set that precedent with him by keeping him out.
Tbh I always thought he didn't quite reach the first ballot level. But looking at that class, and his accomplishments relative to that class, as well as his recent uptick in popularity and I think he's pretty close to a lock.
I definitely won't object if he is.
Like Tom Terrific. How much of a wingnut do you have to be to not vote for him?
Probably a list of 40-50 baseball players you could say the same about.
True, you brought up great point about Aaron, Mays and Williams. Hadn't thought of them.
Such stupidity.
Earl Thomas was a 5 time All Pro and led the best defense of the era.
Joe Thomas was an 8 time All Pro and gave 30 total sack in his entire career.
Terrel Suggs is 8th all time in sacks, 2 time All Pro and 2-time champion.
Manning is top 5 in several categories and a 2-time champion.
That's a really good group though.
Earl Thomas was a 5 time All Pro and led the best defense of the era.
Joe Thomas was an 8 time All Pro and gave 30 total sack in his entire career.
Terrel Suggs is 8th all time in sacks, 2 time All Pro and 2-time champion.
Manning is top 5 in several categories and a 2-time champion.
Agreed. And you didn't include Keuchly and Vinatieri, who may be the top kicker of all time. He is the NFL's all time leading scoring and holds records for most FG made, postseason points, and OT FGs
Vinatieri
Kuechly
T-Sizzle
Marshawn Lynch
Those are my predictions
Earl Thomas was a 5 time All Pro and led the best defense of the era.
Joe Thomas was an 8 time All Pro and gave 30 total sack in his entire career.
Terrel Suggs is 8th all time in sacks, 2 time All Pro and 2-time champion.
Manning is top 5 in several categories and a 2-time champion.
FYI, Joe Staley. Joe Thomas was elected last year
Except Tiki. Who was a better back than Marshawn...
Yep, that's not a really strong class. I hope he gets it, but I have a feeling he won't. There are still a lot of people out there, Giants fans included, that just didn't like his quiet leadership when he was playing. To me it's clear the Mannings have been trying to reshape that perception of him with the talk shows and funny commercials.
I subscribe to the Deion Sanders philosophy that not all heads at the HOF are equal. If the HOF were reserved for only the truly elite they wouldn't be mandated to let a certain number in every year, and there'd probably be some years they didn't let anyone in.
As it stands now, there are definitely players that are in with less of a resume than Eli, so he should be in.
It's been that way since the Super Bowl era began. Namath, Dawson, Griese, Stabler, Aikman, etc.
The story of the NFL can't be told without Eli Manning's two Super Bowl MVP's.
Pro Football Reference has something they call a Hall of Fame monitor. Eli ranks higher on their list than HOFer's Stabler, Jurgensen, Griese, Moon, Namath, Dawson, Aikman and Kelly.
I will be shocked if he makes it on the first ballot because of all the anti Eli resentment that started when he and Archie refused to play in San Diego. Regardless with the two Super Bowl MVPs on top of his regular season stats Eli is a no doubt Hall of Famer.
His post playing career as a popularity as a media celebrity will help him too, not that he needs it.
I think Tom Coughlin is a much more interesting debate. I think Eli is going to carry him into the Hall of Fame with him. IMO without the two 2 Super Bowl wins no one would ever mention TC as a HOF HC.
Super Bowl wins for QBs and Head Coaches = NFL Hall of Fame. Take a look at these two HC's
Marty Schottenheimer had 200 regular season wins, a .613 winning percentage. and the coaching tree below, which includes 4 Super Bowl winning HC's and 2 HOFer's:
Bruce Arians - Super Bowl winner
Tom Bettis
Cam Cameron - Head Coach
Rob Chudzinski - Head Coach
Bill Cowher - Super Bowl winner and Hall of Fame
Gunther Cunningham - Head Coach
Tony Dungy - Super Bowl winner and Hall of Fame
Herm Edwards - Head Coach
Lindy Infante - Head Coach
Hue Jackson - Head Coach
Mike McCarthy - Super Bowl winner
Wade Phillips - Head Coach
Al Saunders - Head Coach
Art Shell - Head Coach
Tony Sparano - Head Coach
Marc Trestman - Head Coach
His playoff record was 5-13. His teams lost some of the most heartbreaking playoff games in the NFL history. Especially the two to Denver in the mid 1980's. Two years in a row fumbles by RB's who very rarely fumbled kept him out of the Super Bowl.
By Pete Grathoff
February 7, 2024
https://news.yahoo.com/ex-chiefs-coach-marty-schottenheimer-134734503.html
Only eight coaches in NFL history have had 200 career wins and five of them are in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Two others are active coaches: the Chiefs’ Andy Reid and Bill Belichick and both are seen as locks for enshrinement one day in Canton, Ohio.
That leaves one other coach: the late Marty Schottenheimer.
Despite a career record of 200-126-1 over 21 seasons, Schottenheimer’s name is not part of the Hall of Fame.
When he was inducted in the Hall of Fame, former Steelers coach Bill Cowher spoke of how he was influenced by Schottenheimer, who passed away in 2021. When Cowher retired as a player, he was hired as a coach on Schottenheimer’s staff in Cleveland.
During a CBS Sports media event on Tuesday, Cowher was asked about Schottenheimer, who coached the Chiefs from 1989-98.
“Again, the metrics we put on that, I mean I don’t know what they are. Is it playoff wins? Is it championships? I just think the contribution that he made and the tree that he’s had,” said Cowher, who is an analyst on CBS Sports’ “The NFL Today.”
Schottenheimer, who also coached the Browns, Chargers and Washington, never had a team reach the Super Bowl.
But Cowher was impressed with how well Schottenheimer’s teams played despite never having an elite quarterback in his prime.
“His best quarterback he had probably early on was Bernie Kosar and I know he had Joe Montana very late in his career (in Kansas City),” Cowher said. “With Bernie Kosar, he got to two championship games early in his career (in Cleveland). Outside of that he made the most with what he had. He was a teacher. He made great contributions to the National Football League with the coaches that he had around him.
“I wouldn’t be where I’m at today if it’s not for Marty Schottenheimer. If I’m in the Hall of Fame, I’ll tell you what, Marty Schottenheimer is in the Hall of Fame with me.”
Tom Coughlin had 170 regular season wins, a .531 winning percentage. and the coaching tree below, which includes 0 Super Bowl winning HC's and 0 HOFer's:
Dom Capers - Head Coach before working for Coughlin
Perry Fewell
Frank Gansz - Head Coach before working for Coughlin
Kevin Gilbride - Head Coach
Dick Jauron - Head Coach
Lane Kiffin - Head Coach
Ben McAdoo - Head Coach
Gary Moeller - Head Coach before working for Coughlin
Chris Palmer - Head Coach before working for Coughlin
Bobby Petrino - Head Coach
Matt Rhule - Head Coach
Rod Rust - Head Coach before working for Coughlin
Steve Spagnuolo - Head Coach
Unlike Eli, Coughlin's post Giants career was really ugly in Jacksonville. I don't think that will matter at all. I think the two Super Bowl wins against Belichick will trump the rest of his average wining percentage and get him elected. But is he more deserving than Schottenheimer or Dan Reeves or Mike Shanahan or Mike Holmgren?
Dan Reeves won 20 more regular season games than Coughlin, has a higher winning percentage and went to 4 Super Bowls but lost them all. So did Marv Levy who won 47 less games than Reeves with a better winning % but still only .561.
Mike Shanahan won the exact same 170 games as Coughlin and won 2 Super Bowls and has a better winning % than Coughlin and he's not in the NFL Hall of Fame.
Mike Holmgren won 161 games, took two different teams to Super Bowls, went to 3 Super Bowls total, had a Super Bowl stolen from him that would have made him the only NFL HC to win Super Bowls with two different teams and a much better winning % than Coughlin and he's not in the NFL Hall of Fame.
George Seifert, Coughlin and Shanahan are the only head coaches to win 2 Super Bowls and not get elected. Seifert's winning % was .648 to Coughlin's .531. But he won his Super Bowls with teams Bill Walsh gets the credit for.
All 5 of the coaches discussed above made it to the semi-final 12 last year. None of them made it the finalist stage. Buddy Parker who coached the Lions in the 1950's did but he wasn't elected.
Pro Football QB Hall of Fame Monitor - ( New Window )
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Vernon Davis doing on here..
It is just the first time they are eligible. Guys like Brandon Phillips and James Shields were eligible to be voted on for baseball. If they don't get a certain percentage in baseball, they are off the ballot for next year. Not sure if something similar happens in football.
How else are they supposed to do it? Take people off the ballot who someone doesn't think is a HOFer? No, you let voters vote for eligible players. There are people who didn't vote for Hank Aaron or Willie Mays or Ted Williams for the HOF.
there are like 40 RBs better than Sproles in the last 20 years.. and probably 20 TEs better than Davis.. i am sorry, this really dilutes what an HoF player is if we start including backup RBs who have less impact than Bradshaw did for the Giants..
However unlike the large majority of people who post here the HOF voters will be well aware of the unprecedented draft pick and salary cap advantages Jacksonville and Carolina were given when they were awarded expansion teams.
When those factors are taken into consideration the early years of the Jags and Panthers aren't as impressive. Plus by the time he left Jacksonville he had destroyed their now level playing field salary cap and worn out his welcome. If he gets credit for the build up, he gets the blame for the tear down no?
However unlike the large majority of people who post here the HOF voters will be well aware of the unprecedented draft pick and salary cap advantages Jacksonville and Carolina were given when they were awarded expansion teams.
When those factors are taken into consideration the early years of the Jags and Panthers aren't as impressive. Plus by the time he left Jacksonville he had destroyed their now level playing field salary cap and worn out his welcome. If he gets credit for the build up, he gets the blame for the tear down no?
Certainly.. but every coach and team have a tear down.. good ones at least have a successful time beforehand.. TC had build up 2 successful teams, 1 of them won the championship.. other was close to winning one.. I consider that a success.. to me that puts him in HoF range.. I also think others who haven't won one should be in HoF.
Vinateri may be a first ballot but not sure voters will put a kicker in first ballot. Eli has a 50/50 chance being first ballot.
The story of the NFL can easily be told without a single mention of nearly every player on that list except Eli.
If it was just this list, he would be one of the five but I think Gates is definitely getting in next year (cannot believe Hester got in over him), one of the WRs (Holt/Wayne) and Kuechly will get in on the first try. He is going for two spots IMO.
Eli is more deserving than the likes of Torry Holt and Reggie Wayne but the committee is very political and likes to make people wait.
It's so hard to win super bowls, recent history has proved this. It's a lot of Brady, Manning & Mahomes. Add in his durability and it's an easy decision imo.
The 49'ers haven't won a super bowl since 1994. The Cowboys haven't won since 1995. It's fucking hard. And Eli navigated the postseason twice to win super bowls.
Drew Brees is eligible in 2026. 🔒
Big Ben in 2027. 🔒. Rivers also eligible.
Tom Brady in 2028. 🔒
QB is usually the "headliner" and there hasn't been a QB enshrined since 2021.
If 2025 isn't the year then Eli might be waiting awhile.
As for Coughlin, in his dual role as GM/HC with the Jaguars he outperformed the Panthers who had a HOF GM.
With the Giants he was the key to the Giants resurgence. Early in his tenure the other HC's were Parcells, Gibbs and Reid. He was the only one to lead his team to a SB. Twice. Those SB's against the greatest HC of all time.
When you look at the rosters of other two time SB winners, I think the Giants probably had the least talented teams. That showed how great of a HC he really was imv.
Each year we slide a little bit more into the Hall of Very Good. Not to disparage those players but it's become so watered down.
But they kept Strahan off the first ballot, too.
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so Eli will get in, seems like saying Eli doesn't really deserve it. But he'll get in bc..
I subscribe to the Deion Sanders philosophy that not all heads at the HOF are equal. If the HOF were reserved for only the truly elite they wouldn't be mandated to let a certain number in every year, and there'd probably be some years they didn't let anyone in.
As it stands now, there are definitely players that are in with less of a resume than Eli, so he should be in.
The HoF is a business. The Canton tourism board won’t allow years with no players getting in. Eli’s a money maker, I expect him in first ballot.
Mike Shanahan won the exact same 170 games as Coughlin and won 2 Super Bowls and has a better winning % than Coughlin and he's not in the NFL Hall of Fame.
Mike Holmgren won 161 games, took two different teams to Super Bowls, went to 3 Super Bowls total, had a Super Bowl stolen from him that would have made him the only NFL HC to win Super Bowls with two different teams and a much better winning % than Coughlin and he's not in the NFL Hall of Fame.
George Seifert, Coughlin and Shanahan are the only head coaches to win 2 Super Bowls and not get elected. Seifert's winning % was .648 to Coughlin's .531. But he won his Super Bowls with teams Bill Walsh gets the credit for.
All 5 of the coaches discussed above made it to the semi-final 12 last year. None of them made it the finalist stage. Buddy Parker who coached the Lions in the 1950's did but he wasn't elected. Pro Football QB Hall of Fame Monitor - ( New Window )
Cowher overrated.
Coughlin underrated.
Shanahan underrated.
Seifert very underrated.
Jimmy Johnson overrated.