I can’t say I’ve completely given up on him, as I’m willing to give him another year with a new O-Line coach at the Tackle position. But if he sucks this upcoming season, which I’m expecting, I think the Giants should release him next offseason. No need to waste more time on a guy that can’t play at this level. And no I don’t think he can be moved to Guard. His body type is not that of Guard.
but it doesn't really matter if as fans we have given up on players, does it?
This take gets beaten to death, sometimes, the players just aren't good.
Nor DJ either
but it doesn't really matter if as fans we have given up on players, does it?
Wait, if after 2 seasons, Schoen/Daboll fired the guy who coached the OL that was terrible and then hired another guy who fixed what was wrong, you would be critical of their process?
Wow I always thought that recognizing a mistake and then making a shift was a GOOD attribute. Look at SF with Lance/Purdy. Should Lynch and Shanahan not be trusted with making QB decisions foing forward?
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No. I want to see him with a competent OL coach. But it is getting late.
This take gets beaten to death, sometimes, the players just aren't good.
Look at Feliciano. He’s in the SB tonight, highly rated all year. Coaching matters.
Unfortunately for the team, a players salary makes it difficult to sign that player to his next contract if he is a good but not great player.
I still have hopes for Evan, but he currently not trending to be great.
He may end up good (Morgan Moses) rather than great (Andrew Thomas).
As others have said, let’s see what a new OL coach can do.
Contend this year? I'll have whatever you're drinking :)
2. Needs a veteran RG in free agency to school him along. I. E. Kevin Dotson
BTW. A high draft pick for Left guard
Fautanu
Beebe
Zintner
I don't think it would be a bad idea to dangle Neal to see if we could move him via trade. Maybe a change of scenery is what he needs; and he's hit his ceiling here.
But based on Schoen's comment that he re-watched Neal's college video to see if he missed anything, it seems evident they think coaching was the problem...
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I don't think he can play tackle in the NFL or at least I think it would be irresponsible going into the season without some plan B at tackle if the Giants plan to contend this year. And if coaching fixes him in one off-season then I'm not sure Schoen or Daboll - whoever hired Bobby Johnson - should remain in charge of those decisions.
but it doesn't really matter if as fans we have given up on players, does it?
Wait, if after 2 seasons, Schoen/Daboll fired the guy who coached the OL that was terrible and then hired another guy who fixed what was wrong, you would be critical of their process?
Wow I always thought that recognizing a mistake and then making a shift was a GOOD attribute. Look at SF with Lance/Purdy. Should Lynch and Shanahan not be trusted with making QB decisions foing forward?
relax, my comment was mostly facetious, but some mistakes are irredeemable. picking a player has risk, no one, I don't care who it is, is a sure thing in the NFL draft. Coaching decisions shouldn't be that risky.
who hired Bobby Johnson?
What player on the OL showed even a shred of improvement under his tutelage? if another coach walks in and Evan Neal all of a sudden looks like his expectations that hiring decision (Bobby Johnson) very likely set this franchise back probably two years in their roster build and cost Daniel Jones a bunch of beatings and offensive players like Hyatt and Robinson development.
That is my point. If you want to type "wait, wow..." go ahead I have no inclination to debate anyone on this very basic point.
Will need a backup plan ready to be implemented though as confidence level in him has to be fairly low.
Hope he makes it.
Lets see what a new coach can do.
He regressed his second year, which given his terrible first year is not a good sign.
At best he will be a far below offensive tackle. Can he play guard, maybe but his height works against him.
I would not go into camp with him penciled in as the starter.
Ditto. Seeing what Bricillo coached out of three of the Raiders tackles has me optimistic there is salvageable consistency there, although I do think the ceiling is not and will not ever come to fruition as high as hoped.
I have seen him land on his back multiple times simply because he tripped over his own feet. He got one of his injuries that way too if you look closely enough.
Now, a coach can help him with hand positions, reading the play as it unfolds, etc. Those are things that he struggled with too.
There is a reason why he did not work out for teams before the draft.
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In comment 16395292 pjcas18 said:
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I don't think he can play tackle in the NFL or at least I think it would be irresponsible going into the season without some plan B at tackle if the Giants plan to contend this year. And if coaching fixes him in one off-season then I'm not sure Schoen or Daboll - whoever hired Bobby Johnson - should remain in charge of those decisions.
but it doesn't really matter if as fans we have given up on players, does it?
Wait, if after 2 seasons, Schoen/Daboll fired the guy who coached the OL that was terrible and then hired another guy who fixed what was wrong, you would be critical of their process?
Wow I always thought that recognizing a mistake and then making a shift was a GOOD attribute. Look at SF with Lance/Purdy. Should Lynch and Shanahan not be trusted with making QB decisions foing forward?
relax, my comment was mostly facetious, but some mistakes are irredeemable. picking a player has risk, no one, I don't care who it is, is a sure thing in the NFL draft. Coaching decisions shouldn't be that risky.
who hired Bobby Johnson?
What player on the OL showed even a shred of improvement under his tutelage? if another coach walks in and Evan Neal all of a sudden looks like his expectations that hiring decision (Bobby Johnson) very likely set this franchise back probably two years in their roster build and cost Daniel Jones a bunch of beatings and offensive players like Hyatt and Robinson development.
That is my point. If you want to type "wait, wow..." go ahead I have no inclination to debate anyone on this very basic point.
Lol, I am totally relaxed. Your comment seemed to indicate that moving on from a bad hire after 2 years (prob wouldve gotten fired on the middle of the season if not for his friendship with Daboll) was a negative light on management. Im sorry, but your post read as it read. Its all good tho.
Daboll had pretty good lines when he had Johnson in Buffalo and BJ had a great line in Indy (although he had some great players there). I just think that they obviously gave him plenty of room to improve the pine, after 2 years, it actually got worse despite better players and they pulled the plug. Im fine with that.
Will need a backup plan ready to be implemented though as confidence level in him has to be fairly low.
Hope he makes it.
This os exactly how I feel. Another offseason, camp and half a season or so to prove he belongs there. It would really suck tho if Giard doesnt work for him either tho.
well I guess you can have it both ways. if both the player stinks and the coach is ineffective.
But there should be some accountability somewhere.
Missing on the #7 pick of the draft should have consequences shouldn't it? At least I don't just view it a shoulder shrug moment.
At a minimum (as it influences your teams record) at least your leash as a GM (or whoever is responsible for picking the player) should get shorter and your seat should get hotter? No? the 1st round of the draft is the most valuable resource you have as a franchise to improve the team.
If you didn't miss on the pick and the player is legit a 1st round talent but you as the GM or the HC brought in an OL coach who schemed poorly or in some other way influenced that great player to play bad should also yield some accountability. Not just to the coach who got fired, but to the people who hired the coach.
I don't even see how this is controversial. Yes, Daboll and Schoen should get credit for moving on from Bobby Johnson, but if Evan Neal looks like Dan Dierdorf out there yeah it's a good outcome but it also makes you wonder how much damage has been done.
Evan Neal was supposed to be a "safe pick", plug and play starter from the best OL in the SEC
Something went wrong. There should be consequences even if those consequences are just changes in some evaluation to avoid the same mistake. Just seems like normal business practice to me.
Agree!
Then Giants need to go into free Agency with Oline being the highest priority! Get Robert Hunt, Mike Onwenu, or Kevin Dotson. Then maybe snag another Olineman OT in FA or go to the draft and get one. If the Texans can rebuilt their Oline in one off-season, so can the Giants. It's possible.
And I won't cry if they draft a replacement and/or competition.
And good coaching for a change.
a quality starter or more.
He regressed his second year, which given his terrible first year is not a good sign.
At best he will be a far below offensive tackle. Can he play guard, maybe but his height works against him.
I would not go into camp with him penciled in as the starter.
Kelly, this is exactly what good coaching can do. He's played 20 NFL games total. And who knows how long his ankle was broken before the Giants put him on IR last season. I would say he's not guaranteed a starting position but he definitely needs better coaching.
Doubling down on in house OL got Reese fired (see passing on Whitworth and Ramcyk).
The only safe OL should be Thomas and JMS. They should be going into this off-season assuming the other 3 spots need to be upgraded.
From all indication he seems to be a hard worker. He's been injured and the entire line has looked bad.
Get an established vet who can play at RTG and he gets this year.
If the Giants go RT with their first round pick it would easily be a defensible pick.
I sure hope Schoen give the Giants options at RT, C and G.
Neal should not be handed anything.....he must earn anything he gets.....the sames goes for everyone elseq
But Thomas is only OLmen that has earned anything.....
I’m not sure what the OP’s concern is with his body type for playing G. He’s got Andrus Peat’s build - same height and lower body thickness and power. They’re an inch taller than a lot of quality Gs so I don’t think that makes a difference.
Unless a team offers something crazy, I wouldn’t consider getting rid of him without trying a position change.
even if he struggles, their still a path for him to be a plus player at guard.
With a typical reserve player, it is easy to understand why he is not a starter.
What makes it so hard to tell what's wrong with Neal and whether it is fixable or not?
If not serviceable backup (which means starter by week2 in giants terms)
At the same time, NYG needs to acquire another OL with the potential to supplant Neal at RT. No more scholarships.
Great top 10 pick, if I've ever seen one.
No, I'm not confident in him, and I don't think there's much evidence to have confidence beyond hoping that a new OL coach does the trick.
At the same time, I haven't given up on him. Too soon, and there are extenuating circumstances, such as poor overall OL play, lackluster guards, bad coaching, etc. Doesn't mean he gets a full pass, though.
As JonC said, they need a backup plan in case the new OL coach can't get improvement out of him. We need a decent swing tackle anyhow, so getting one won't signal the end of Neal's time as a starter.
We also need guards, which will impact the overall OL play.
Right from the get go, Neal was asked to switch from left side to right, and learn COMPLETELY new techniques to allow for what Daboll wanted from his tackles. Neal was very slow to pick that up, spent a lot of time hurt his rookie year.
He improved some things (like his stance and how quickly he got out of it), for year 2 but spent the bulk of the year hurt. Now he could end up being a bust, but there's no real way to know.
Nor DJ either
So are you going to give Neal six years and a market-rate second contract before you decide?
If not, why not?
Big year 3 for him. Time is running out.
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Nor DJ either
So are you going to give Neal six years and a market-rate second contract before you decide?
If not, why not?
Refresh my memory but I don't recall Neal playing well in 2022, even just "pretty well" for the stat sluts, leading this team to the playoffs and a playoff win while winning a couple of POTW honors along the way.
But that's just me. Maybe I missed something about Neal.
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In comment 16395300 AROCK1000 said:
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Nor DJ either
So are you going to give Neal six years and a market-rate second contract before you decide?
If not, why not?
Refresh my memory but I don't recall Neal playing well in 2022, even just "pretty well" for the stat sluts, leading this team to the playoffs and a playoff win while winning a couple of POTW honors along the way.
But that's just me. Maybe I missed something about Neal.
That was his rookie year, wasn't it?
Just so we're clear, DJ was held back by Judge and Garrett, and we can't use 2020 and 2021 against him because of that. But Bobby Johnson's failure to develop any OL prospects during his two years here is an irrelevant factor when evaluating Neal. Do I have that right?
If he cannot handle OT, I expect him to be moved to G which may be more suitable. I would rather had him success at OT than G, but really I just want him to be a plus player somewhere on the OL.
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In comment 16397735 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 16395300 AROCK1000 said:
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Nor DJ either
So are you going to give Neal six years and a market-rate second contract before you decide?
If not, why not?
Refresh my memory but I don't recall Neal playing well in 2022, even just "pretty well" for the stat sluts, leading this team to the playoffs and a playoff win while winning a couple of POTW honors along the way.
But that's just me. Maybe I missed something about Neal.
That was his rookie year, wasn't it?
Just so we're clear, DJ was held back by Judge and Garrett, and we can't use 2020 and 2021 against him because of that. But Bobby Johnson's failure to develop any OL prospects during his two years here is an irrelevant factor when evaluating Neal. Do I have that right?
I don't really care, respectfully. Was just saying Neal didn't have that good year like DJ did under the first year of Daboll/Schoen.
I cautiously believe in Neal that he can become a solid starter, especially with the new OL coming in. But we need to see it first. I wouldn't bet my life on it because I am jaded. NEal is a talent so hopefully his work ethic pays off.
To paraphrase ABC's Wide World of Sports opening montage: "the agony of da feet!" He's too slow.