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Brady vs Mahomes

Giantimistic : 2/11/2024 11:28 pm
2 questions:

You are the GM and drafting first. You taking Brady or Mahomes?

Who will be the best QB ever when Mahomes is done playing?

For me, I am taking Mahomes over Brady and I think Mahomes will surpass Brady.

Right now the comparison is pretty easy to make.

Both didn’t start as a rookie, HOF coaches, HOF tight ends, each had some of the best defensive minds running the defense, WRs that were not the best, except the run with Hill and Moss.

I think Mahomes is smart in how he plays. He could run much more but know a how to protect himself. He is very mobile but saves his running for the end of games and big plays.
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Brady  
BigBlueCane : 2/12/2024 3:50 am : link
and its not close.

Early career Mahomes is greater than early career Brady  
Manhattan : 2/12/2024 5:28 am : link
But later career Brady is close.
RE: Mahomes won because of a blocked extra point  
RHPeel : 2/12/2024 6:22 am : link
In comment 16396067 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
… talk to me when Mahomes has won three more SBs.


I am convinced that the Chiefs win that game in regulation if that extra point doesn't get blocked.
Who is going to be the next Eli?  
JoeDonLooney : 2/12/2024 6:58 am : link
Mahommes the next GOAT? Who is going to beat him twice in the SB? Could it possibly be the next QB drafted by the Giants? T
You guys know Brady beat Mahomes, twice  
HardTruth : 2/12/2024 7:00 am : link
With two different teams

In the AFCC and in the Super Bowl

On the road in KC and was an underdog in both
RE: You guys know Brady beat Mahomes, twice  
Giantimistic : 2/12/2024 7:21 am : link
In comment 16396166 HardTruth said:
Quote:
With two different teams

In the AFCC and in the Super Bowl

On the road in KC and was an underdog in both


When all is said and done, I think this will be the only argument that Brady has left—it is a pretty good one—but it is still Mahomes for me.
2 very different styles, 2 paths to the same result.  
Spider56 : 2/12/2024 7:28 am : link
It’s like the Mays / Mantle discussion of our youth. Right now I just want Sir Patrick to stay healthy so I can enjoy watching him the way I enjoyed watching Brady. They’re both surgical.
Mahomes is currently a Joe Montana career away  
HardTruth : 2/12/2024 7:50 am : link
From tying Brady

Think about that. The next highest SB total is 4 and only 2 guys have ever done that

It is no foregone conclusion that Mahomes does this.

Brady has won more SBs than any single franchise. Think about that
RE: You guys know Brady beat Mahomes, twice  
BlueVinnie : 2/12/2024 7:57 am : link
In comment 16396166 HardTruth said:
Quote:
With two different teams

In the AFCC and in the Super Bowl

On the road in KC and was an underdog in both

...And Peyton Manning beat Brady 3 out of 5 in playoff matchups so by your logic, Peyton is the true goat (which I actually think he is).

I talke Mahomes over Brady.
Mahomes is doing everything he should be  
logman : 2/12/2024 7:59 am : link
doing at this point in his career to make himself part of the conversation for GOAT when his playing days are finished.
For now for me it's still Brady  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2024 8:00 am : link
living up here in Mass I wanted that Dynasty to end so many times and the Giants SB wins were great obviously, but every year they just seemed to not be able to lose.

But I do think if you ask me this again when Mahomes career is over he overtakes Brady. Making that decision now while Mahomes career is still in its prime isn't really fair because you have to project/speculate. And things don't always work out as you expect.

People may not like to admit it but there are a lot of similarities between Mahomes and Brady. and even their teams.

The Chiefs team that won with Tyreek and Kelce is more talented offensively than any Brady team that won, but the current Chiefs are much more like the teams Brady won with.

No 1st round talent at RB, WR, even TE (usually) for Brady. An occasional 1st round OL like Mankins or Solder, but mostly it was just masterful command of the offense and how to read a defense (and great coaching as the constant for both) but the main differentiator that made both great is near flawless execution of their game plans.

Mahomes no question  
Blue21 : 2/12/2024 8:02 am : link
.
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/12/2024 8:03 am : link
I would still go TB12, but it’s getting close. When all said and done, it’ll probably be Mahomes.
Starting a franchise  
JoeyBigBlue : 2/12/2024 8:07 am : link
It’s Mahomes no question. A superior athlete. Will he have Brady’s longevity is what will decide if he’s the GOAT QB or not.
RE: Starting a franchise  
Spider56 : 2/12/2024 8:29 am : link
In comment 16396197 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
It’s Mahomes no question. A superior athlete. Will he have Brady’s longevity is what will decide if he’s the GOAT QB or not.


Sir Patrick played really smart yesterday… he only ran when the game was on the line and then he did exactly what he needed to do. Almost like he lulled SF to sleep that he wasn’t going to run at all… then Bam. Several big plays.
Tyreek and Kelce was great  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2024 8:42 am : link
but I think Gronk/Edelman/Amendola and all those Swiss Army knife RBs they’ve had over the years are neck and neck talent wise.
And wasn’t the question who’d you’d start with  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2024 8:43 am : link
not who’s going to have the better career? I feel like the discussion got off topic about who’s going to be the best.
He asked both questions  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2024 8:45 am : link
first he asked who you'd take first then

"Who will be the best QB ever when Mahomes is done playing?"

I kind of think that second question has to inextricably be linked to titles (if the rest is close).
RE: Tyreek and Kelce was great  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2024 8:51 am : link
In comment 16396237 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
but I think Gronk/Edelman/Amendola and all those Swiss Army knife RBs they’ve had over the years are neck and neck talent wise.


Gronk and Kelce might me somewhat comparable though IMO Gronk a more complete TE, Kelce a better receiver, but Edelman, Amendola those guys were plug and play with similar type receivers - Troy Brown, Wes Welker, etc. I don't mean to demean their skill or talent, but it's not close to Tyreek Hill IMO who forces teams to play different defensively.

the closest the Pats offenses had in talent to the Kelce/Hill team IMO was the Moss/Welker team the Giants beat in XLII. but I still think the Chiefs get an edge.

anyway, just my opinion.
Mahomes is only 28  
BigBlue7 : 2/12/2024 8:56 am : link
just entering his prime, and is still getting better


He's the greatest QB I've ever seen play
Yup that’s my bad  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2024 9:00 am : link
completely missed the second question. Don’t mind me.
Mahomes is better  
UberAlias : 2/12/2024 9:09 am : link
He might not accomplish as much, but he is the better QB. He can do a lot of things Brady can't.
 
christian : 2/12/2024 9:10 am : link
Brady's greatness is in large part due to his unreal longevity and his evolution as a player, especially as he got older. That's how you rack up all those rings.

Snap shot in time, best vs. best, I think Brady's peak in 2007 is better than Mahomes's best so far. But if the Chiefs decide to go get a stud WR, I think Mahomes gets back to a 5K, 50TD guy.

I think Mahomes is this generation's Montana more than Brady.
....  
ryanmkeane : 2/12/2024 9:32 am : link
At this rate I'm going Mahomes.
A lot of recency bias here.  
Crispino : 2/12/2024 9:50 am : link
Brady took his them to TEN Super Bowls. A little early to say Mahomes is better. Different type of player, and a magician, but he’s got some work ahead of him to match Brady’s greatness.

And “one trick pony”? The only trick in the NFL playing in and winning Super Bowls. He mastered that one.
People always underrate Brady’s short passing  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/12/2024 10:00 am : link
They called him a “system QB” but he clearly was the system. He was able to take guys like Welker/Edelman and turn them into stars because of his insane combination of velocity/accuracy/vision in that short/intermediate range.

I still might take Mahomes because it really is a discussion but people always relegate Brady to “longevity” when he was a bad bad bad man at his peak due to how he dissected defenses with 8/9/12 yard throws.

It’s also a team sport but Brady has beaten Mahomes twice in huge playoff games as an old man including that legendary AFC title game.
It's too early to say who will have the more accomplished career  
UberAlias : 2/12/2024 10:01 am : link
But in terms of better QB, it's not too early to say that. Mahomes has been in the league for seven seasons, he's been to four SBs and won three of them. That's plenty to know how good he is. And not regency bias for me either. I have always seen Pats success as a shared achievement, obviously with Brady deserving the most credit among players, but I tend to put less on Brady than most people. That's always been my view.
Brady executed their system  
UberAlias : 2/12/2024 10:02 am : link
to perfection.
If Brady executed a system Or whatever  
HardTruth : 2/12/2024 10:50 am : link
How do you explain him winning with a second team? And his first year there
If Brady executed a system Or whatever  
HardTruth : 2/12/2024 10:51 am : link
How do you explain him winning with a second team? And his first year there

And his old team completely falling apart after him (and before him btw)
Tampa  
UberAlias : 2/12/2024 10:54 am : link
Was the better team. KCs line couldn't step up.
Remember  
UberAlias : 2/12/2024 11:04 am : link
Brady signed a contract with AAV @25M. Other top QBs have AAV of $45 $55M. That team was not built like other teams. It was a, hey, let's make a run construction, and Brady wasn't the only one taking a discount for the cause.
You can argue  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2024 11:08 am : link
that the Tampa offense when Brady won the SB with them was the best offense Brady had his entire career.

Mike Evans
Chris Godwin
Antonio Brown
Gronk

Fournette

a good OL

Mahones looks to have the better skill set  
JOrthman : 2/12/2024 11:12 am : link
but let's wait to see how his career ends. There seems to be this need in sports now to always find the next GOAT or next HOF players before their career is over.
RE: Mahones looks to have the better skill set  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2024 11:18 am : link
In comment 16396558 JOrthman said:
Quote:
but let's wait to see how his career ends. There seems to be this need in sports now to always find the next GOAT or next HOF players before their career is over.


Waiting means forums don’t exist. Nothing wrong with talking about this especially since Mahomes is pacing ahead, is only 28, and is very likely the most talent player to ever play the position and IMO, already a top 5 QB all time.
RE: RE: Mahones looks to have the better skill set  
JOrthman : 2/12/2024 11:22 am : link
In comment 16396572 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 16396558 JOrthman said:


Quote:


but let's wait to see how his career ends. There seems to be this need in sports now to always find the next GOAT or next HOF players before their career is over.



Waiting means forums don’t exist. Nothing wrong with talking about this especially since Mahomes is pacing ahead, is only 28, and is very likely the most talent player to ever play the position and IMO, already a top 5 QB all time.


I'm fine discussing it; it was my way of saying Brady is still the GOAT. Also, a way of bashing the media a bit as I see them doing this all the time.
RE: A lot of recency bias here.  
BillKo : 2/12/2024 11:29 am : link
In comment 16396368 Crispino said:
Quote:
Brady took his them to TEN Super Bowls. A little early to say Mahomes is better. Different type of player, and a magician, but he’s got some work ahead of him to match Brady’s greatness.

And “one trick pony”? The only trick in the NFL playing in and winning Super Bowls. He mastered that one.


I understand the meaning of one trick pony here, but in terms of using that term in any form on Tom Brady, just doesn't seem right.
Don’t see anything wrong with it  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2024 11:33 am : link
the media is saying the same stuff we do in group chats. I teed this question up last year after their title to my group chat with 2 Pats fans, it’s a normal conversation.
The OP had 2 questions.  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 2/12/2024 11:53 am : link

1. Who would I draft with the first pick overall. I'm drafting Mahomes.

2. Who will have the best career when it's all said and done. Tom Brady.


But Mahomes might be the only other QB capable, in my lifetime , of catching Brady.
RE: Don’t see anything wrong with it  
JOrthman : 2/12/2024 11:54 am : link
In comment 16396596 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
the media is saying the same stuff we do in group chats. I teed this question up last year after their title to my group chat with 2 Pats fans, it’s a normal conversation.


I have a deep disdain for sports journalism/media in today's age and this is one of my gripes with it. I'm fine with fans discussing it, but this is one of many things that bothers me about sports media.
Brady has the most SB wins  
fanatic II : 2/12/2024 12:14 pm : link
But he also had a lot of football luck.

The tuck play, one SB.

The INT at the 1 yard line by Seattle, two SB.

The offside penalty after he throws a game losing INT versus KC, three SB.

He had one go against him with the Tyree catch.

With football luck taken out of the equation Brady would have 5 SB.

Mahomes has another say 7 to 10 years left. But the key to Mahomes winning more titles is Reid.

The great debate was Brady or Belichick. Now it's Mahomes or Reid. I believe Reid offensive scheme and his brilliant play calling, able to adjust to the situation is what makes Mahomes great. Take Reid away and he drops back to the pack of the very best QBs in the NFL.

Can Mahomes win without Reid, I think yes, but not four more times.
Did McAdoo really want to move up and get Mahomes?  
Simms11 : 2/12/2024 12:18 pm : link
Not sure how true that story is, but I wonder how he’d be on this Giants team?
RE: Brady has the most SB wins  
BillKo : 2/12/2024 12:18 pm : link
In comment 16396687 fanatic II said:
Quote:
But he also had a lot of football luck.

The tuck play, one SB.

The INT at the 1 yard line by Seattle, two SB.

The offside penalty after he throws a game losing INT versus KC, three SB.

He had one go against him with the Tyree catch.

With football luck taken out of the equation Brady would have 5 SB.

Mahomes has another say 7 to 10 years left. But the key to Mahomes winning more titles is Reid.

The great debate was Brady or Belichick. Now it's Mahomes or Reid. I believe Reid offensive scheme and his brilliant play calling, able to adjust to the situation is what makes Mahomes great. Take Reid away and he drops back to the pack of the very best QBs in the NFL.

Can Mahomes win without Reid, I think yes, but not four more times.


Honestly, I think Reid benefits from Mahomes. Going to KC was great for is career.

And dont get me wrong, they guy is a HOF coach. I also think in addition to benefting from Mahomes he benefits from how the NFL is played today.

Clock management is not what it used to be especially when you can go for it on 4th down from anywhere on the field today. The strategy of the game is much different.

And, rules have never benefited offenses great than today, and Reid is an offensive coach.
RE: Brady has the most SB wins  
HardTruth : 2/12/2024 2:35 pm : link
In comment 16396687 fanatic II said:
Quote:
But he also had a lot of football luck.

The tuck play, one SB.

The INT at the 1 yard line by Seattle, two SB.

The offside penalty after he throws a game losing INT versus KC, three SB.

He had one go against him with the Tyree catch.

With football luck taken out of the equation Brady would have 5 SB.

Mahomes has another say 7 to 10 years left. But the key to Mahomes winning more titles is Reid.

The great debate was Brady or Belichick. Now it's Mahomes or Reid. I believe Reid offensive scheme and his brilliant play calling, able to adjust to the situation is what makes Mahomes great. Take Reid away and he drops back to the pack of the very best QBs in the NFL.

Can Mahomes win without Reid, I think yes, but not four more times.



Yeah good thing Mahomes hasnt had any good fortune or luck like say a blown extra point by other team or the ball hitting an extra teamer on the leg for a fumble or benefitting from some 50/50 calls like a defensive holding
Career  
stretch234 : 2/12/2024 2:50 pm : link
At the same number of years into their career it is Mahomes. However, what Brady did by winning SB at 37,39,41 and 43 years of age is utterly insane

His 1st 2 years in TB at ages 41 and 42 he put up 10k yards and 83 TDs and won a SB. His numbers were video game like

Mahomes has just played his 6th year and is 28. Does he want to play that long. Brady went I believe 11 years between his 3rd and 4th SB win.

I think Mahomes playoff run this year was his best. Buff and Balt had everything set up for them and lost. He has now run on the road. He is going to be hard to stop

KC and Mahomes are going to be highly motivated going for the 3-peat
In NFL history, Brady is most accomplished, Mahomes the best player  
The Mike : 2/12/2024 2:59 pm : link
If/when Mahomes gets his seventh ring, there won't even be a debate. Frankly, if he three-peats next year, an argument can already be made that he will be both the best and most accomplished. Certainly before the age of thirty!
RE: Mahomes won because of a blocked extra point  
gtt350 : 2/12/2024 3:16 pm : link
In comment 16396067 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
… talk to me when Mahomes has won three more SBs.


let's nor forget Brady lucked into two.The fumble that wasn't and an interception on the goal line
Mahomes also led the Chiefs...  
bw in dc : 2/12/2024 3:23 pm : link
yesterday in rushing with 66 yards/9 carries to compliment his passing.

So, his ability to run for yards and make plays off-script create a clear separation between him and Brady talent wise. Frankly, it's not even close physically between the two.

Knowing what we know now between these two great players, I can't imagine any GM taking Brady over Mahomes right now. He just has too many ways to beat you.

Personally, I don't think Brady is as good as Montana for many of the same reasons cited for Mahomes. Montana's performances in the Super Bowl are otherworldly. And he played in an era where QBs weren't protected like the endangered species they are today.

So, yes, Brady has the most trophies. And if you want to make that the gold standard metric, Brady still has a healthy lead on Mahomes.

Of course, Bill Russell had considerably more rings than Jordan. But no one in their right mind would ever take him over Jordan and his six rings. Jordan just had too many ways to beat you.

That's Mahomes...
Mahomes also went 17 straight possessions without a TD  
HardTruth : 2/12/2024 4:16 pm : link
Spanning the AFCC to Super Bowl

And im not saying that to knock the guy but people are losing a little perspective here
On Montana  
HardTruth : 2/12/2024 4:18 pm : link
Back in the 1980s, the best team faced was often not in the Super Bowl but in the NFC Championship
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