Nice article. Holes at every position. Hard to say JS has done a great job of building roster with 2 drafts and free agent periods. giant review - ( New Window )
If you look at the roster he inherited from Gettleman
Pretty much anyone he's drafted has a role on the team, and is expected to compete for a roster spot next year. Some of his FA moves have been good, others not so much. Let's see what the roster looks like once he's had another draft/FA cycle to work with.
But we should be on an upswing after two years and we really aren’t. Some of the moves they have made have been good, but they got the big decisions wrong and that is still holding the team back.
Some of the biggest issues on this team are decisions made since Schoen got here.
Pretty much anyone he's drafted has a role on the team, and is expected to compete for a roster spot next year. Some of his FA moves have been good, others not so much. Let's see what the roster looks like once he's had another draft/FA cycle to work with.
Dave Gettleman will go down in NY Giants history as the worst GM to ever hold that title, and the decision to keep him in his role was co-owner John Mara.
Agree that Schoen hasn't done a great job. Though, I could probably live with most of the pluses/minuses thus far as this was never going to be a quick rebuild because of what he inherited.
But Schoen cannot make a mistake again like he did with the Jones eval/contract. That was simply a body blow, and only times this whole thing out further in terms of putting a consistent winning team on the field.
RE: It has only been two years starting from scratch
But we should be on an upswing after two years and we really aren’t. Some of the moves they have made have been good, but they got the big decisions wrong and that is still holding the team back.
Some of the biggest issues on this team are decisions made since Schoen got here.
Spot on.
Teflon Joe needs to start feeling more heat around here and the media.
I've said it before. Once Schoen doubled down on Jones he entered the Gettleman zone, only younger, better looking, and more articulate.
Its ridiculous to think you are going to fix ten years
But we should be on an upswing after two years and we really aren’t. Some of the moves they have made have been good, but they got the big decisions wrong and that is still holding the team back.
Some of the biggest issues on this team are decisions made since Schoen got here.
Spot on.
Teflon Joe needs to start feeling more heat around here and the media.
I've said it before. Once Schoen doubled down on Jones he entered the Gettleman zone, only younger, better looking, and more articulate.
And even with giving a young QB who gave you your first winning season in years, with winning a playoff game on the road, Schoen was smart enough to give himself an out after 2024, if Jones didnt keep progressing...
Gettleman would have given him a fully guaranteed contract..
Gettleman was the worst gm in giants history and left him
With the worst team in the nfl. Tough job to fix. Give him another year and let's see. Brought in a coach who is supposed to be a good qb coach but haven't given the opportunity to properly mold one yet.
The DJ contract was a major major error but i wonder how much of that was steared by ownership.
If the Giants went 6-11 in year one under Daboll/Schoen
and then went 10-8-1 and won a playoff game in year 2 no one is saying a fucking word right now. As is they are 16-19-1 over 2 years. They are better than where they were in 19-21 but need to take a step forward in 24.
Hopefully this 23 season is like the Knicks 21 season. Good first year, setback 2nd year followed by a big step forward in year 3. We can only hope.
Draft and find impact players. That's what we need. Doesn't matter the position. Just find impact players.
RE: Its ridiculous to think you are going to fix ten years
of bad draft and cap management in TWO years.. Its literally insane to think that
Just look at Gettlemans 2021 draft.. You would think SOME of those players would AT LEAST be depth..
ONE player is still on the team. Ojulari. And he is always hurt.
The Giants are JUST getting the cap healthy after Gettlemans blunders..
Golladay was a 14 MILLION dollar capt hit for 2023 !!! Hell TONEY was an almost 4 million cap hit...
22.75 million cap hit from GETTLEMAN contracts in 2023 and NO significant benefit from the 2021 draft.
And you want Schoen to fix that in two years ??
We wanted Schoen to not cripple the team by signing a below average QB to a multi-year extension so that he had enough cap space to overpay an-oft injured RB.
Schoen has made some good moves, and some bad ones. He has made some big mistakes that have sidetracked the rebuild.
of hearing "Schoen made a big mistake with the Jones contract"
coming off the 22 season, AND considering he gave himself an escape hatch after 2 seasons, WHAT would you guys have done?
In theory, they had just as much chance of being successful with Jones as Tampa had with Mayfield.
So stop with this "egregious" error crap!
The MAJOR mistake is going to happen if they don't move on THIS year, even if its for a QB they have to groom for next year and then start in 2025.
DJ aside (which looks to be a terrible deal), look at his track record the last two off-seasons; other than Bobby O, he hasn't had great success in FA. As for the draft, we have as many questions today as we did 2 years ago.
'22-'23 Drafts:
Core/Premium Players (Potential Pro-Bowlers): Thibs, Banks
Core/Role Players (solid starter): Wan'Dale
Potential Core/Role Players (Seen solid play but still need to prove themselves): McFadden, Bellinger, JMS, Flott, Belton, Hyatt
Still hope - but could be busts: Neal, Ezudu
Free Agency / Trades
Good Value: Okereke
Incomplete (poor early returns): Waller
Busts: Glowinski, Campbell
Solid Role Players: Nacho, A'Shawn, Ward
JS is barely hitting 50% right now - if he's going to be the long term Giants GM he needs to hit a HR this April + get better development out of his recent premium picks (Neal, Ezudu, Hyatt, JMS), otherwise we may be looking for a new GM come January '24
and fell on his face in 2023. We're going to find out a ton about Schoen, Daboll, and many players who are keys 2024, and expected to be beyond then.
I'll give Schoen some credit for adding Hodgins and James, but the vast majority of production actually came from Gettleman's players. The 2022 season was much more a reflection of coaching. Daboll and his staff drove the success.
Rookie contracts were massive for the top guys. When you drafted a QB high, you made two major investments in the player at once --draft capital and salary cap.
In the current environment, those are separate investments because rookie deals are relatively controlled, even for top picks. The second one --the one where you decide to extend the player-- can be more difficult than people think. Chicago is at that point right now with Fields, as is any team who considering trading for him.
My view on those guys has always been --if you are not 100% certain, than move on. The smart move for Schoen would have been to use the franchise tag on Jones. Push the multi year commitment back as long as possible. He didn't, and here we are.
Where that leaves us now is a third decision point --we just made a big invested in a player that doesn't look good. There are other circumstances that could be used to talk ones self into not accepting the hard truth that it was a bad decision. You could be lured into thinking that the offense we saw in camp and was the vision never got a legit chance to see the light of day, blah blah blah. That thinking is flawed. We have to stop chasing the what ifs and accept the facts as they have been presented to us. I would not have made the decision DG made to draft Jones, nor would I have signed Jones to the deal Schoen did.
I don;'t care so much about other bad deals, such as Waller. But the Jones extension was bad. Be humble, cut our losses and move on.
1. recognize that we are still (yes, still) more than one offseason away. Forget about fixing everything at once. Take a weakness and turn it into a strength, one pick at a time.
2. Use our high draft picks to address needs in premium positions with the best player available. We lack difference makers and need more top end talent. Draft accordingly.
3. Recognize that QB is a huge need. If at any point we are in striking distance to get our guy --we go get him.
4. Follow this blue print as long as it takes.
Some of the biggest issues on this team are decisions made since Schoen got here.
Schoen has made several bad mistakes, and how he recovers from them will make or break him.
Dave Gettleman will go down in NY Giants history as the worst GM to ever hold that title, and the decision to keep him in his role was co-owner John Mara.
But Schoen cannot make a mistake again like he did with the Jones eval/contract. That was simply a body blow, and only times this whole thing out further in terms of putting a consistent winning team on the field.
Some of the biggest issues on this team are decisions made since Schoen got here.
Spot on.
Teflon Joe needs to start feeling more heat around here and the media.
I've said it before. Once Schoen doubled down on Jones he entered the Gettleman zone, only younger, better looking, and more articulate.
Just look at Gettlemans 2021 draft.. You would think SOME of those players would AT LEAST be depth..
ONE player is still on the team. Ojulari. And he is always hurt.
The Giants are JUST getting the cap healthy after Gettlemans blunders..
Golladay was a 14 MILLION dollar capt hit for 2023 !!! Hell TONEY was an almost 4 million cap hit...
22.75 million cap hit from GETTLEMAN contracts in 2023 and NO significant benefit from the 2021 draft.
And you want Schoen to fix that in two years ??
Just look at Gettlemans 2021 draft.. You would think SOME of those players would AT LEAST be depth..
ONE player is still on the team. Ojulari. And he is always hurt.
The Giants are JUST getting the cap healthy after Gettlemans blunders..
Golladay was a 14 MILLION dollar capt hit for 2023 !!! Hell TONEY was an almost 4 million cap hit...
22.75 million cap hit from GETTLEMAN contracts in 2023 and NO significant benefit from the 2021 draft.
And you want Schoen to fix that in two years ??
Three with that 2021 draft since Aaron Robinson and Gary Brightwell are still here... technically.
Quote:
But we should be on an upswing after two years and we really aren’t. Some of the moves they have made have been good, but they got the big decisions wrong and that is still holding the team back.
Some of the biggest issues on this team are decisions made since Schoen got here.
Spot on.
Teflon Joe needs to start feeling more heat around here and the media.
I've said it before. Once Schoen doubled down on Jones he entered the Gettleman zone, only younger, better looking, and more articulate.
And even with giving a young QB who gave you your first winning season in years, with winning a playoff game on the road, Schoen was smart enough to give himself an out after 2024, if Jones didnt keep progressing...
Gettleman would have given him a fully guaranteed contract..
The DJ contract was a major major error but i wonder how much of that was steared by ownership.
Hopefully this 23 season is like the Knicks 21 season. Good first year, setback 2nd year followed by a big step forward in year 3. We can only hope.
Draft and find impact players. That's what we need. Doesn't matter the position. Just find impact players.
Just look at Gettlemans 2021 draft.. You would think SOME of those players would AT LEAST be depth..
ONE player is still on the team. Ojulari. And he is always hurt.
The Giants are JUST getting the cap healthy after Gettlemans blunders..
Golladay was a 14 MILLION dollar capt hit for 2023 !!! Hell TONEY was an almost 4 million cap hit...
22.75 million cap hit from GETTLEMAN contracts in 2023 and NO significant benefit from the 2021 draft.
And you want Schoen to fix that in two years ??
We wanted Schoen to not cripple the team by signing a below average QB to a multi-year extension so that he had enough cap space to overpay an-oft injured RB.
Schoen has made some good moves, and some bad ones. He has made some big mistakes that have sidetracked the rebuild.
coming off the 22 season, AND considering he gave himself an escape hatch after 2 seasons, WHAT would you guys have done?
In theory, they had just as much chance of being successful with Jones as Tampa had with Mayfield.
So stop with this "egregious" error crap!
The MAJOR mistake is going to happen if they don't move on THIS year, even if its for a QB they have to groom for next year and then start in 2025.
'22-'23 Drafts:
Core/Premium Players (Potential Pro-Bowlers): Thibs, Banks
Core/Role Players (solid starter): Wan'Dale
Potential Core/Role Players (Seen solid play but still need to prove themselves): McFadden, Bellinger, JMS, Flott, Belton, Hyatt
Still hope - but could be busts: Neal, Ezudu
Free Agency / Trades
Good Value: Okereke
Incomplete (poor early returns): Waller
Busts: Glowinski, Campbell
Solid Role Players: Nacho, A'Shawn, Ward
JS is barely hitting 50% right now - if he's going to be the long term Giants GM he needs to hit a HR this April + get better development out of his recent premium picks (Neal, Ezudu, Hyatt, JMS), otherwise we may be looking for a new GM come January '24
I'll give Schoen some credit for adding Hodgins and James, but the vast majority of production actually came from Gettleman's players. The 2022 season was much more a reflection of coaching. Daboll and his staff drove the success.
In the current environment, those are separate investments because rookie deals are relatively controlled, even for top picks. The second one --the one where you decide to extend the player-- can be more difficult than people think. Chicago is at that point right now with Fields, as is any team who considering trading for him.
My view on those guys has always been --if you are not 100% certain, than move on. The smart move for Schoen would have been to use the franchise tag on Jones. Push the multi year commitment back as long as possible. He didn't, and here we are.
Where that leaves us now is a third decision point --we just made a big invested in a player that doesn't look good. There are other circumstances that could be used to talk ones self into not accepting the hard truth that it was a bad decision. You could be lured into thinking that the offense we saw in camp and was the vision never got a legit chance to see the light of day, blah blah blah. That thinking is flawed. We have to stop chasing the what ifs and accept the facts as they have been presented to us. I would not have made the decision DG made to draft Jones, nor would I have signed Jones to the deal Schoen did.
I don;'t care so much about other bad deals, such as Waller. But the Jones extension was bad. Be humble, cut our losses and move on.
2. Use our high draft picks to address needs in premium positions with the best player available. We lack difference makers and need more top end talent. Draft accordingly.
3. Recognize that QB is a huge need. If at any point we are in striking distance to get our guy --we go get him.
4. Follow this blue print as long as it takes.