- Stearns to open things up at 3PM addressing the media
- Mets can play players (Mauricio/Peterson) on the 60 day on Wednesday
-Austin Adams cleared waivers and has been invited to ST as a NRI
can infer that an organizational weakness has indeed been... player development given the fact they hired Jared Banner in 2018, fired him in 2021, hired Kevin Howard in 2021, fired him after 2023.
100%. i dont remember who it was in the 2010-2018 time frame pre-BVW but it was a lot better. all the pitchers obviously but also nimmo, conforto, alonso, mcneil, turner, etc. flores spent a lot of time in the system even though he improved elsewhere (similarly TDA/JDD). i dont think they did anything particularly special in those years, they seemed to just promote guys once it seemed like they were mastering levels.
the biggest frustration of the cohen era is not having gotten that part right in 2021 or at least league average. i dont remember howard's backstory, but presumably that was where they made an error (along with the powers above him who didnt recognize/fix it earlier).
Anthony DiComo
@AnthonyDiComo
The Mets have signed outfielder Ben Gamel to a minor league contract and invited him to spring training.
gamel is whatever but much better to add extra OF this way than trading prospects for them like eppler and bvw.
If Gamel sees meaningful time with the Mets, things went very wrong. Trayce Thompson is more interesting in the filler OF department.
obviously but if 2 guys run into each other in the OF and they need a depth call up for 10 days it's possible thompson is hitting like .200 with a 40% k-rate even at AAA. no downside to having options.
Levin was the farm director for a number of years and then he was promoted to a more general baseball operations title (and now assistant GM) with Banner taking his place, and then Howard taking Banners place and now Andy Green.
in an emergency situation depth that you can DFA has value but he's a pretty bad player. If he's playing a lot for the big club, the Mets were likely crushed by injuries.
Vientos get the year getting a lot of time at DH. I'm a believer. I think his end of year splits when he was getting some regular run were fairly encouraging from an OPS perspective.
David Lennon
@DPLennon
Edwin Diaz, who threw a bullpen earlier today at the PSL complex, said he was ready to pitch for #Mets at end of last season but "the team wasn't playing good baseball and they backed it off." Feels totally confident and healthy for start of spring training.
It bears repeating... Alonso, Raley, Quintana, Narvaez, D. Smith, Fujinami, Severino, Bader, Houser, Lopez, Lucchesi, Wendle, Ottavino are all FA's after 2024. Manaea (PO), Diekman (VO) + a few clear non-tender candidates. Roster turnover could be substantial #Mets
Tim Healey
@timbhealey
David Stearns said the Mets will have “some level of competition” at third base but they’re confident in Brett Baty. He also mentioned Mark Vientos, Joey Wendle and Zack Short.
Jon Morosi
@jonmorosi
Free agent RHP Jake Odorizzi, an All-Star starter in 2019, is throwing without restrictions and looking to sign a major league deal in the coming weeks.
Odorizzi, 33, has pitched off the mound this offseason in front of evaluators from 10 to 12 teams. .
It bears repeating... Alonso, Raley, Quintana, Narvaez, D. Smith, Fujinami, Severino, Bader, Houser, Lopez, Lucchesi, Wendle, Ottavino are all FA's after 2024. Manaea (PO), Diekman (VO) + a few clear non-tender candidates. Roster turnover could be substantial #Mets
mets 2025 pitching staff under contract
senga
diaz
(end of list)
this is still my biggest gripe of the offseason. maybe like alonso they figure they can afford to bring back whoever they want but if they end up needing to fill 11 slots, that seems like a lot for 1 offseason.
JJ Cooper
@jjcoop36
This year is the first year of a 175-player offseason and a 165-player inseason limit for domestic MiLB rosters. According to multiple agents and front office officials it's having an effect on veterans landing MiLB deals with non-roster invites.
also said the bullpen is all but set except the final 2 spots. Fujinami has an option but gotta figure he has a major leg up on one of the final 2 if not a lock.
also said the bullpen is all but set except the final 2 spots. Fujinami has an option but gotta figure he has a major leg up on one of the final 2 if not a lock.
To be clear, he didn't mention Fujinami's option, I'm adding that.
Diaz, Ottavino, Raley, Diekman, Smith, Lopez, Fujimani have guaranteed contracts, so it's really 1 spot unless Fujinami is terrible in ST and they send him down. Obviously, injuries happen but that's clearly not what he's talking about in regard to "2 spots".
offer QO, set a value and make a contract offer, let him test the market see if someone wants to overpay, and if so, sayonara, if not, he's back on Mets terms (IMO at least that is what this means).
GENY Mets Report
@genymets
David Stearns said that the “most likely outcome” is that Pete Alonso will hit free agency after this season. #LGM
argue it's the only approach that makes sense. If Alonso and Boras decide they want to chat, it's not as if Stearns/Cohen won't listen/engage. If Alonso thinks he's going to set the market for 1b, find that kind of offer via FA, not as if Cohen is unable to match/surpass the top offer.
for both sides at this point. At least to test the market - and this assumes the Mets even offer a LT contract.
I can see a scenario where the Mets offer the QO and don't even try and match. I would expect to see Vientos with a 1B glove in spring training quite a bit.
can infer that an organizational weakness has indeed been... player development given the fact they hired Jared Banner in 2018, fired him in 2021, hired Kevin Howard in 2021, fired him after 2023.
Downhill since Bernazard was hulking up and ripping his shirt off to fight prospects. Need that dog eat dog attitude back!
how they are very, very publicly daring Boras to take Alonso to FA.
This is the one time as a Mets fan I agree completely with not extending a home grown All Star. He stunk last year. If he can't turn it around in a contract year, then there is no way he would probably ever regain his stud offensive abilities as a Met again. Does that mean he couldn't thrive on a west coast team, no... but as a Met he needs to show he has that NYC magic again.
stunk in comparison to the contract of a mega star
A ton of variable this year. That said, maybe we strike gold on a few players.
it's an interesting thing to consider. even though there are more players in common with 2022/2023, going back 5 years I think this roster is most comparable to the 2021 team (OD roster quoted below). the top 3 SP on that team were supposed to be JDG/Stroman/Carrasco. Thor hopefully back midseason from TJS. Senga obviously not JDG but this year's rotation has a similar dynamic. 1 ace and then a bunch of mid-rotation types behind. Quintana, Severino, Manaea not so meaningfully different than Stroman, Carrasco, Walker.
Quote:
Pitchers (13): RHP Jacob Barnes, RHP Dellin Betances, RHP Miguel Castro, RHP Jacob deGrom, RHP Edwin Díaz, RHP Jeurys Familia, RHP Robert Gsellman, LHP Aaron Loup, LHP Joey Lucchesi, RHP Trevor May, LHP David Peterson, RHP Marcus Stroman, RHP Taijuan Walker
Catchers (2): James McCann, Tomás Nido
Infielders (6): Pete Alonso, J.D. Davis, Luis Guillorme, Francisco Lindor, Jeff McNeil, Jonathan Villar
Outfielders (5): Albert Almora, Jr., Michael Conforto, Brandon Nimmo, Dominic Smith, Kevin Pillar
with the benefit of hindsight i think id argue the reason that team most failed was because player development failed. specifically conforto, mcneil, dom, jdd all regressed even though lindor/alonso/nimmo were their usual selves. zack scott and chili had their blow out early in the year.
that team also had a first time manager, which ended up not working out with a veteran team. just all around a promising season spent mostly in first place lost to chaos/injuries.
stearns' ability to make moves that have an impact on the margins is what this year will sink (5-10 games under) or swim on (5-10 games over). defense, bullpen, depth, development of the talent already here.
going into 2021 we were probably rightfully more excited because it was cohen year 1 and he spent more than the wilpons right away, got lindor, etc. i think the roster quality is similar though and even some aspects of the roster construction. https://www.fangraphs.com/teams/mets/stats?season=2021 - ( New Window )
think you're giving player development WAY too much credit here. Where would the system rank if not for deadline deals for Gilbert/Clifford/Rodriguez/Vargas/Hernandez? Easily bottom 10 in the league.
If things were different, things would be different. They did make those deals. They get credit for making them. Now we have to see how they develop those prospects. Hoping they're better at coaching guys up than they have been.
The Mets system wasn't just very weak; it was starved for resources. Cohen & co. are addressing that but it's not going to be a quick fix. They have a lot of work to do, and not all of it will be apparent to fans soon, if ever. Fans don't necessarily see the infrastructure. They see the results.
The "Cohen tax" has also hurt their draft position and that makes the job harder.
Huh? I was responding explicitly to "player development". What do the trades have to do with player development? Nothing.
Fair.
I guess there's a difference between player acquisition and "player development." Doesn't player development specifically refer to something separate from player acqusition? The Mets have meh at both for a long time, though they managed to develop some pretty nice players: Alonso, Nimmo, Smith (for a while), Conforto (for a while), Alvarez, the "baby Mets."
They've acquired a decent pipeline. Now they have to develop them. I agree that the development of those prospects so far isn't to the Mets' credit. But if Luisangel Acuña becomes a HOFer, for example, the Mets are going to be due some credit for developing him from a nice prospect to an elite player. Yes?
Course they will deserve credit but by any measure the last 8-10 years have been really poor in terms of the Mets development of prospects. Thay doesnt mean 5 years from now we aren’t saying “wow, Stearns is really churning them out” but the past is the past and the recent past has been really poor for the Mets which is a major reason why their payroll is 1st in baseball and their talent clearly isn’t or why the bullpen is routinely horrible. Onward and upward.
Eric so you are saying that this is a 77 win team?
If so, I agree. That's about what it looks like. But again, that's mostly because there's so much variable, especially in the rotation. If we hit on Severino, Manaea, and Houser of course we could surprise. I just hate stacking too many "best case scenarios" in a row. It's usually a recipe for disaster.
I think the lineup is a bat short too (JDM would have been perfect) but it's not bad as is.
RE: Eric so you are saying that this is a 77 win team?
If so, I agree. That's about what it looks like. But again, that's mostly because there's so much variable, especially in the rotation. If we hit on Severino, Manaea, and Houser of course we could surprise. I just hate stacking too many "best case scenarios" in a row. It's usually a recipe for disaster.
I think the lineup is a bat short too (JDM would have been perfect) but it's not bad as is.
yes sort of bc i dont think there's much of a talent difference between any team from 75-85 wins. i dont know what dictates teams with good vibes vs bad vibes, but whatever it is is usually worth a bunch of close wins (or the inverse crushing losses).
the 2021 team went from the good vibes bench mob that was 8 games over to imploding even after getting their "1 more bat" who played at a 6-win pace for the last 2 months.
i think the expectations are low and they did some smart things (defense, bp, depth) so it wouldnt surprise me if they ended up overachieving instead of underachieving for once. also wouldnt surprise me if mendoza has some issues and within a month we are saying 'why did we fire buck again?'
im with u on jdm - he could be a delgado like piece in middle of lineup that makes everyone else better but i also understand not wanting to go 2 years for him since he looked cooked with the back issues in 2022. if he comes down to 1 year id be all over it.
Quote:
Anthony DiComo
@AnthonyDiComo
The Mets have signed outfielder Ben Gamel to a minor league contract and invited him to spring training.
gamel is whatever but much better to add extra OF this way than trading prospects for them like eppler and bvw.
If Gamel sees meaningful time with the Mets, things went very wrong. Trayce Thompson is more interesting in the filler OF department.
-32 DRS in the OF career, -22 OAA. We should be hoping we don't see him in 2024.
100%. i dont remember who it was in the 2010-2018 time frame pre-BVW but it was a lot better. all the pitchers obviously but also nimmo, conforto, alonso, mcneil, turner, etc. flores spent a lot of time in the system even though he improved elsewhere (similarly TDA/JDD). i dont think they did anything particularly special in those years, they seemed to just promote guys once it seemed like they were mastering levels.
the biggest frustration of the cohen era is not having gotten that part right in 2021 or at least league average. i dont remember howard's backstory, but presumably that was where they made an error (along with the powers above him who didnt recognize/fix it earlier).
Gamel, Thompson, Kohlway, Rudick, Jordan, McIIwain, Cortes, Acuna, Gilbert
Quote:
In comment 16396784 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Anthony DiComo
@AnthonyDiComo
The Mets have signed outfielder Ben Gamel to a minor league contract and invited him to spring training.
gamel is whatever but much better to add extra OF this way than trading prospects for them like eppler and bvw.
If Gamel sees meaningful time with the Mets, things went very wrong. Trayce Thompson is more interesting in the filler OF department.
obviously but if 2 guys run into each other in the OF and they need a depth call up for 10 days it's possible thompson is hitting like .200 with a 40% k-rate even at AAA. no downside to having options.
@DPLennon
Edwin Diaz, who threw a bullpen earlier today at the PSL complex, said he was ready to pitch for #Mets at end of last season but "the team wasn't playing good baseball and they backed it off." Feels totally confident and healthy for start of spring training.
Waiting for Mauricio?
Season ender. He can be added to the 60 day IR on Wednesday
@timbhealey
David Stearns said the Mets will have “some level of competition” at third base but they’re confident in Brett Baty. He also mentioned Mark Vientos, Joey Wendle and Zack Short.
@jonmorosi
Free agent RHP Jake Odorizzi, an All-Star starter in 2019, is throwing without restrictions and looking to sign a major league deal in the coming weeks.
Odorizzi, 33, has pitched off the mound this offseason in front of evaluators from 10 to 12 teams. .
maybe when mauricio or peterson hit IL?
Quote:
Looks like the Fujinami deal has not been made official (not listed on the ST roster)
maybe when mauricio or peterson hit IL?
He's physically in camp (or has been seen arriving) so unless he had something turn up in his physical, that's the only explanation.
mets 2025 pitching staff under contract
senga
diaz
(end of list)
this is still my biggest gripe of the offseason. maybe like alonso they figure they can afford to bring back whoever they want but if they end up needing to fill 11 slots, that seems like a lot for 1 offseason.
https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1mnGepnpeYEKX - ( New Window )
i havent listened to it i only just found the link. i assume its a watered down version of what he said to season ticket holders.
-Thinks Marte looks healthy
-Basically admitted Alonso will follow the Nimmo model FA wise
-DH and bench will be a competition
-Likes their depth
-Expects league wide activity given how many players are still out there
-"We expect ourselves - and our fanbase certainly expects us - to be a championship-caliber organization."
Really run of the mill stuff (not knocking Stearns)
@jjcoop36
This year is the first year of a 175-player offseason and a 165-player inseason limit for domestic MiLB rosters. According to multiple agents and front office officials it's having an effect on veterans landing MiLB deals with non-roster invites.
To be clear, he didn't mention Fujinami's option, I'm adding that.
Diaz, Ottavino, Raley, Diekman, Smith, Lopez, Fujimani have guaranteed contracts, so it's really 1 spot unless Fujinami is terrible in ST and they send him down. Obviously, injuries happen but that's clearly not what he's talking about in regard to "2 spots".
@Joelsherman1
Ben Gamel’s minor league contract with the NYM will pay him $1.2M if he reaches the majors. $35,000 a month at AAA.
GENY Mets Report
@genymets
David Stearns said that the “most likely outcome” is that Pete Alonso will hit free agency after this season. #LGM
I can see a scenario where the Mets offer the QO and don't even try and match. I would expect to see Vientos with a 1B glove in spring training quite a bit.
This roster truly reminds me of those "rebuild" rosters of the mid 90's that followed the Bonilla, Sabe, E Murray, Coleman fail teams.
Downhill since Bernazard was hulking up and ripping his shirt off to fight prospects. Need that dog eat dog attitude back!
This is the one time as a Mets fan I agree completely with not extending a home grown All Star. He stunk last year. If he can't turn it around in a contract year, then there is no way he would probably ever regain his stud offensive abilities as a Met again. Does that mean he couldn't thrive on a west coast team, no... but as a Met he needs to show he has that NYC magic again.
it's an interesting thing to consider. even though there are more players in common with 2022/2023, going back 5 years I think this roster is most comparable to the 2021 team (OD roster quoted below). the top 3 SP on that team were supposed to be JDG/Stroman/Carrasco. Thor hopefully back midseason from TJS. Senga obviously not JDG but this year's rotation has a similar dynamic. 1 ace and then a bunch of mid-rotation types behind. Quintana, Severino, Manaea not so meaningfully different than Stroman, Carrasco, Walker.
Catchers (2): James McCann, Tomás Nido
Infielders (6): Pete Alonso, J.D. Davis, Luis Guillorme, Francisco Lindor, Jeff McNeil, Jonathan Villar
Outfielders (5): Albert Almora, Jr., Michael Conforto, Brandon Nimmo, Dominic Smith, Kevin Pillar
with the benefit of hindsight i think id argue the reason that team most failed was because player development failed. specifically conforto, mcneil, dom, jdd all regressed even though lindor/alonso/nimmo were their usual selves. zack scott and chili had their blow out early in the year.
that team also had a first time manager, which ended up not working out with a veteran team. just all around a promising season spent mostly in first place lost to chaos/injuries.
stearns' ability to make moves that have an impact on the margins is what this year will sink (5-10 games under) or swim on (5-10 games over). defense, bullpen, depth, development of the talent already here.
going into 2021 we were probably rightfully more excited because it was cohen year 1 and he spent more than the wilpons right away, got lindor, etc. i think the roster quality is similar though and even some aspects of the roster construction.
https://www.fangraphs.com/teams/mets/stats?season=2021 - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 16396601 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
think you're giving player development WAY too much credit here. Where would the system rank if not for deadline deals for Gilbert/Clifford/Rodriguez/Vargas/Hernandez? Easily bottom 10 in the league.
If things were different, things would be different. They did make those deals. They get credit for making them. Now we have to see how they develop those prospects. Hoping they're better at coaching guys up than they have been.
The Mets system wasn't just very weak; it was starved for resources. Cohen & co. are addressing that but it's not going to be a quick fix. They have a lot of work to do, and not all of it will be apparent to fans soon, if ever. Fans don't necessarily see the infrastructure. They see the results.
The "Cohen tax" has also hurt their draft position and that makes the job harder.
Huh? I was responding explicitly to "player development". What do the trades have to do with player development? Nothing.
I guess there's a difference between player acquisition and "player development." Doesn't player development specifically refer to something separate from player acqusition? The Mets have meh at both for a long time, though they managed to develop some pretty nice players: Alonso, Nimmo, Smith (for a while), Conforto (for a while), Alvarez, the "baby Mets."
They've acquired a decent pipeline. Now they have to develop them. I agree that the development of those prospects so far isn't to the Mets' credit. But if Luisangel Acuña becomes a HOFer, for example, the Mets are going to be due some credit for developing him from a nice prospect to an elite player. Yes?
I think the lineup is a bat short too (JDM would have been perfect) but it's not bad as is.
I think the lineup is a bat short too (JDM would have been perfect) but it's not bad as is.
yes sort of bc i dont think there's much of a talent difference between any team from 75-85 wins. i dont know what dictates teams with good vibes vs bad vibes, but whatever it is is usually worth a bunch of close wins (or the inverse crushing losses).
the 2021 team went from the good vibes bench mob that was 8 games over to imploding even after getting their "1 more bat" who played at a 6-win pace for the last 2 months.
i think the expectations are low and they did some smart things (defense, bp, depth) so it wouldnt surprise me if they ended up overachieving instead of underachieving for once. also wouldnt surprise me if mendoza has some issues and within a month we are saying 'why did we fire buck again?'
im with u on jdm - he could be a delgado like piece in middle of lineup that makes everyone else better but i also understand not wanting to go 2 years for him since he looked cooked with the back issues in 2022. if he comes down to 1 year id be all over it.