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Daniel Jeremiah Refutes Merril Hoge's Take on Caleb Williams

Jim in Tampa : 2/12/2024 7:11 pm
During an interview last week, Merril Hoge suggested “the one thing that is clear (about Caleb Williams) is that he is not special… He’s not Patrick Mahomes. Not even remotely close to that.”

Jeremiah, in an interview today with Rich Eisen, disagreed with Hoge’s opinion take, and regarding Williams said, “in terms of ability he’s the closest thing we’ve seen to Mahomes”.

Jeremiah on Caleb Williams - ( New Window )
He too had Trubisky rated higher than Mahomes  
widmerseyebrow : 2/12/2024 7:30 pm : link
In fact, Mahomes didn't even make his top 50 prospects that year.
Jeremiah vs Hoge?  
81_Great_Dane : 2/12/2024 7:32 pm : link
RE: He too had Trubisky rated higher than Mahomes  
Jim in Tampa : 2/12/2024 7:38 pm : link
In comment 16397270 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In fact, Mahomes didn't even make his top 50 prospects that year.

Most draft experts, including Sy and Colin, had Trubisky rated higher than Mahomes. Sy had Mahomes as his 5th best QB that year. It's not an exact science.
RE: RE: He too had Trubisky rated higher than Mahomes  
widmerseyebrow : 2/12/2024 7:50 pm : link
In comment 16397277 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 16397270 widmerseyebrow said:


Quote:


In fact, Mahomes didn't even make his top 50 prospects that year.


Most draft experts, including Sy and Colin, had Trubisky rated higher than Mahomes. Sy had Mahomes as his 5th best QB that year. It's not an exact science.


I agree. I think some people were trying to cherry pick all the ones that Hoge got wrong to discredit his Williams opinion.

I think I'm most interested to see if there is consensus that all of the "elite 3" are in fact deserving to go in the top of the draft as commonly assumed.
Hoge is a buffoon…  
Chris in Philly : 2/12/2024 8:07 pm : link
Maybe he would like Williams better if he was a “factor back”…
RE: Hoge is a buffoon…  
Jack Stroud : 2/12/2024 8:16 pm : link
In comment 16397297 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
Maybe he would like Williams better if he was a “factor back”…
Why is he a buffoon? He has his opinion and you have yours, are you saying your opinion matters more than his?
RE: RE: Hoge is a buffoon…  
Sammo85 : 2/12/2024 8:20 pm : link
In comment 16397304 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
In comment 16397297 Chris in Philly said:


Quote:


Maybe he would like Williams better if he was a “factor back”…

Why is he a buffoon? He has his opinion and you have yours, are you saying your opinion matters more than his?


Oh Jack. Wait til you hear what he said about your boy Dan Jones. Oof.
He may resemble Mahomes,  
barens : 2/12/2024 8:29 pm : link
but Caleb Williams will have to prove that he's going to be somewhat of a turnover machine. Lots of fumbles, and trying to do too much has gotten him on trouble, and that's the only obstacle I see.
This is what I don't get.  
robbieballs2003 : 2/12/2024 8:37 pm : link
Do people not understand that when you evaluate players and give them a grade that it is based on what they have shown? Yes, there is projection involved but how many people killed Jerry Reese for taking guys like Tim Carter and Adrien Robinson? Mahomes wasn't great in college. He had serious questions. Josh Allen was, what, the 4th QB taken that year? Brady wasn't great in college. People liked him but that doesn't mean he was getting a first round grade. Draft grades, projections, and what a player becomes are all different. You can knock anyone for saying oh he had this bum rated higher than this stud. No shit. That doesn't mean they didn't like the stud.
RE: He may resemble Mahomes,  
Manhattan : 2/12/2024 9:12 pm : link
In comment 16397317 barens said:
Quote:
but Caleb Williams will have to prove that he's going to be somewhat of a turnover machine. Lots of fumbles, and trying to do too much has gotten him on trouble, and that's the only obstacle I see.


he's not a turnover machine. dude doesn't throw picks.
Caleb Williams is far and away the best QB prospect in this class  
Manhattan : 2/12/2024 9:13 pm : link
.
There are certainly places to go...  
bw in dc : 2/12/2024 9:15 pm : link
on Williams that raise questions.

I just can't imagine, however, someone watching Williams play these last three years and concluding he doesn't have special arm throwing ability.

I mean, if Williams doesn't, who the hell does??
Williams has a lot of ability,  
Go Terps : 2/12/2024 9:40 pm : link
but I'd bet my house he doesn't end up in the same universe as Mahomes. That's not a comparison that should ever be made for anyone.
RE: Williams has a lot of ability,  
Mike in NY : 2/12/2024 9:43 pm : link
In comment 16397361 Go Terps said:
Quote:
but I'd bet my house he doesn't end up in the same universe as Mahomes. That's not a comparison that should ever be made for anyone.


Mahomes and Josh Allen are vastly overused as comparisons for QB’s. The tools are there with Williams, but I can see why some believe the tool box requires more due diligence.
i was going to post on the QB arm talent thread  
Manhattan : 2/12/2024 9:53 pm : link
but as great an arm as Elway had, and it was super-fantastic I have yet to see a throw from Elway as far as the 65 air yard throw Caleb posted against Stanford. Maybe there is one out there, I don't doubt Elway could do it. But Caleb's arm strength alone puts him in a very small class of QBs. He has tools to bank on. Doesn't mean he won't be a bust, it can happen to any prospect. But there is a lot to work with.
I like Maye  
Rjanyg : 2/12/2024 9:57 pm : link
I think he will be the better pro.
I think the comp for Williams is Kyler Murray  
Go Terps : 2/12/2024 10:01 pm : link
He's obviously bigger, but the way he plays reminds me most of Murray.
RE: i was going to post on the QB arm talent thread  
Mike in NY : 2/12/2024 10:03 pm : link
In comment 16397374 Manhattan said:
Quote:
but as great an arm as Elway had, and it was super-fantastic I have yet to see a throw from Elway as far as the 65 air yard throw Caleb posted against Stanford. Maybe there is one out there, I don't doubt Elway could do it. But Caleb's arm strength alone puts him in a very small class of QBs. He has tools to bank on. Doesn't mean he won't be a bust, it can happen to any prospect. But there is a lot to work with.


So now he is a HOFer and a future HOFer!
RE: I think the comp for Williams is Kyler Murray  
Mike in NY : 2/12/2024 10:04 pm : link
In comment 16397382 Go Terps said:
Quote:
He's obviously bigger, but the way he plays reminds me most of Murray.


That isn’t a bad comparison from what I have seen
RE: Williams has a lot of ability,  
bw in dc : 2/12/2024 10:05 pm : link
In comment 16397361 Go Terps said:
Quote:
but I'd bet my house he doesn't end up in the same universe as Mahomes. That's not a comparison that should ever be made for anyone.


Did you watch Mahomes at all at Texas Tech?

Until I saw him play, I was convinced Favre was the most creative thrower of a football I had seen.

But it took about two of Mahomes's games at TT to conclude he was more creative than Favre. I forget who it was against - maybe Baylor? - but the guy had close to 800 yards passing and the only pass he didn't attempt was a behind the back pass.

To this day, the best watch ever in college football...

The word you want  
k2tampa : 2/12/2024 10:14 pm : link
is dispute, or rebut, not refute.
RE: RE: i was going to post on the QB arm talent thread  
Manhattan : 2/12/2024 10:17 pm : link
In comment 16397384 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 16397374 Manhattan said:


Quote:


but as great an arm as Elway had, and it was super-fantastic I have yet to see a throw from Elway as far as the 65 air yard throw Caleb posted against Stanford. Maybe there is one out there, I don't doubt Elway could do it. But Caleb's arm strength alone puts him in a very small class of QBs. He has tools to bank on. Doesn't mean he won't be a bust, it can happen to any prospect. But there is a lot to work with.



So now he is a HOFer and a future HOFer!


Hmm.. is that what I say here? I don't think so. I'm going to guess you're reading comprehension is better than this and you're choosing to be impolite.
RE: RE: Williams has a lot of ability,  
Go Terps : 2/12/2024 10:20 pm : link
In comment 16397391 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16397361 Go Terps said:


Quote:


but I'd bet my house he doesn't end up in the same universe as Mahomes. That's not a comparison that should ever be made for anyone.



Did you watch Mahomes at all at Texas Tech?

Until I saw him play, I was convinced Favre was the most creative thrower of a football I had seen.

But it took about two of Mahomes's games at TT to conclude he was more creative than Favre. I forget who it was against - maybe Baylor? - but the guy had close to 800 yards passing and the only pass he didn't attempt was a behind the back pass.

To this day, the best watch ever in college football...


I never did, besides highlights packages. Big regret.
RE: The word you want  
Jim in Tampa : 2/13/2024 6:31 am : link
In comment 16397398 k2tampa said:
Quote:
is dispute, or rebut, not refute.

I didn't choose the word "refutes". I simply copied and pasted the title of the YouTube video.

If you have a problem with the wording, take it up the Rich Eisen's staffer who posted it, by utilizing the YouTube comments section.

I'm sure that he will value your contribution every bit as much as I do.
RE: RE: He may resemble Mahomes,  
barens : 2/13/2024 8:16 am : link
In comment 16397346 Manhattan said:
Quote:
In comment 16397317 barens said:


Quote:


but Caleb Williams will have to prove that he's going to be somewhat of a turnover machine. Lots of fumbles, and trying to do too much has gotten him on trouble, and that's the only obstacle I see.



he's not a turnover machine. dude doesn't throw picks.


The guy has 30 fumbles in 31 career starts, what do you think of that?
He’s far beyond Sir Patrick in 2 categories …  
Spider56 : 2/13/2024 8:33 am : link
Fumbling and crying home to mama when things don’t go well.
RE: This is what I don't get.  
Greg from LI : 2/13/2024 8:58 am : link
In comment 16397325 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Do people not understand that when you evaluate players and give them a grade that it is based on what they have shown? Yes, there is projection involved but how many people killed Jerry Reese for taking guys like Tim Carter and Adrien Robinson? Mahomes wasn't great in college. He had serious questions. Josh Allen was, what, the 4th QB taken that year? Brady wasn't great in college. People liked him but that doesn't mean he was getting a first round grade. Draft grades, projections, and what a player becomes are all different. You can knock anyone for saying oh he had this bum rated higher than this stud. No shit. That doesn't mean they didn't like the stud.


Ernie Accorsi drafted Tim Carter
Some serious hindsight being used in this thread  
Dnew15 : 2/13/2024 9:12 am : link
Patrick Mahomes didn't win a SINGLE big game in his entire college career.

There was a reason he went #10 and it took one team falling in love him to go and get him. So far as I could tell, the ONLY other team that was rumored to be interested in trading up to get him was the NYG.

It's easy now to talk about how great PM was in college and how impressive he threw the ball and how top-notch is skills were.
Keep in mind that  
HomerJones45 : 2/13/2024 9:22 am : link
these three guys are coming out of USC, NC and LSU. They've had several years of pro qb coaching. Whatever flaws these guys have, they are probably going to continue to have.

This discussion is probably academic. I can see the team taking the compromise position of taking a wideout or o-lineman in the first round because "we've screwed up Daniel" and then taking one of the second tier guys in a later round. The discussion probably should be centered around Milton, Pratt, Rattler, and who among McCarthy, Nix, Penix might make it to day 2.
RE: Keep in mind that  
Spider56 : 2/13/2024 9:39 am : link
In comment 16397648 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
these three guys are coming out of USC, NC and LSU. They've had several years of pro qb coaching. Whatever flaws these guys have, they are probably going to continue to have.

This discussion is probably academic. I can see the team taking the compromise position of taking a wideout or o-lineman in the first round because "we've screwed up Daniel" and then taking one of the second tier guys in a later round. The discussion probably should be centered around Milton, Pratt, Rattler, and who among McCarthy, Nix, Penix might make it to day 2.


I’d debate this point on Maye / UNC… he actually regressed this past year and Mac Brown does not have a history of developing NFL QBs. There’s a chance Maye could actually be a lot better with improved coaching.
RE: Some serious hindsight being used in this thread  
barens : 2/13/2024 10:13 am : link
In comment 16397617 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
Patrick Mahomes didn't win a SINGLE big game in his entire college career.

There was a reason he went #10 and it took one team falling in love him to go and get him. So far as I could tell, the ONLY other team that was rumored to be interested in trading up to get him was the NYG.

It's easy now to talk about how great PM was in college and how impressive he threw the ball and how top-notch is skills were.


Mahomes style of play wasn't the style of play teams were looking for back then, and not winning a single big game had nothing to do with it, considering he played for Texas Tech, who came close to beating LSU in their Bowl Game. He'd be looked at much differently in todays environment.
RE: Keep in mind that  
Carson53 : 2/13/2024 10:38 am : link
In comment 16397648 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
these three guys are coming out of USC, NC and LSU. They've had several years of pro qb coaching. Whatever flaws these guys have, they are probably going to continue to have.

This discussion is probably academic. I can see the team taking the compromise position of taking a wideout or o-lineman in the first round because "we've screwed up Daniel" and then taking one of the second tier guys in a later round. The discussion probably should be centered around Milton, Pratt, Rattler, and who among McCarthy, Nix, Penix might make it to day 2.
.

That's the thing that's not talked about enough, when players like a Trubisky for example come out after playing 13 games in college. They are not ready, than you have others who stay in school for at least three years, makes a difference. Look at a Purdy, who I wasn't that high on coming out (but I knew had experience), he played 4 years of college ball.
RE: RE: RE: He may resemble Mahomes,  
Carson53 : 2/13/2024 10:43 am : link
In comment 16397528 barens said:
Quote:
In comment 16397346 Manhattan said:


Quote:


In comment 16397317 barens said:


Quote:


but Caleb Williams will have to prove that he's going to be somewhat of a turnover machine. Lots of fumbles, and trying to do too much has gotten him on trouble, and that's the only obstacle I see.



he's not a turnover machine. dude doesn't throw picks.



The guy has 30 fumbles in 31 career starts, what do you think of that?
.

He can clean that up with some good coaching at the next level. I recall people saying that Josh Allen wouldn't be able to throw with accuracy at the next level, cuz he wasn't accurate enough at Wyoming (including Troy Aikman), well...
I'm not saying he's going to be a bust, who knows,  
barens : 2/13/2024 10:55 am : link
but how does anyone know if that's something he can clean up? This has nothing to do with how Josh Allen did at Wyoming.
RE: I'm not saying he's going to be a bust, who knows,  
Carson53 : 2/13/2024 11:12 am : link
In comment 16397786 barens said:
Quote:
but how does anyone know if that's something he can clean up? This has nothing to do with how Josh Allen did at Wyoming.
.

It has to do with the fact that something was 'coached' out of a player, who some had some doubts about coming in...that's the point I am making here. Each had something to clean up.
RE: Hoge is a buffoon…  
NINEster : 2/13/2024 11:51 am : link
In comment 16397297 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
Maybe he would like Williams better if he was a “factor back”…


Hoge claimed Manziel would bust and that Khalil Mack was better than Clowney. He was right on both of them.
RE: I'm not saying he's going to be a bust, who knows,  
BleedBlue46 : 2/13/2024 6:40 pm : link
In comment 16397786 barens said:
Quote:
but how does anyone know if that's something he can clean up? This has nothing to do with how Josh Allen did at Wyoming.


Who knows how his mind will work in the NFL. There are many factors and CW is not flawless. I wouldn't trade up to pick 1 for him myself and I would take a historic haul from the Commies to trade down one slot if I were Poles.
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