Contact Info
Administration
Coaching Staff
Coaching History
Annual Records
Hall Of Fame
Retired Jerseys
Ring Of Honor
|
|
|
| Quote: |
| Ian Hartitz @Ihartitz Worst quarterbacks in terms of allowing pressures to be converted into sacks in 2023 (PFF) 1. Tommy DeVito (37% of pressures turned into sacks) 2. Daniel Jones (32%) 3. Ryan Tannehill (30%) 4. Bryce Young (25%) 5. Zach Wilson (24%) |
He has some ability as a thrower but it was pretty clear that his internal clock and decision-making were way out of whack.
He has some ability as a thrower but it was pretty clear that his internal clock and decision-making were way out of whack.
Jones is ... also unplayable! Only a handful of elite O-lines in the league, and for those without, you need a QB you can escape and make quick decisions. Jones ability to run probably got him paid, but he's not nearly quick enough making decisions or manipulating 2nd and 3rd level defenders to be a difference maker through the air. Next.
If the Giants don't add a QB they will have the worst QB room in the NFL. Literally 32nd.
So if we dont upgrade at qb we must upgrade at o line
So if we dont upgrade at qb we must upgrade at o line
They feel like they did by firing Bobby Johnson and hiring Carmen Bricillo. Still need to make moves on the line.
Pressure percentage was also probably (if someone wants to look it up, feel free) the highest in the league from Weeks 1 through 5. It settled down a bit against Arizona because they had the worst talent in the league, and the line wasn't as abysmal. They couldn't run block really well but the offense moved in the pass game. The guard play (which also made Schmitz struggle) combined with Josh Ezeudu at LT and your Evan Neal situation at RT is what we witnessed. That kind of line faced off against the eventually NFC champions.
The second half of the season really had bad opponents, especially defensively. Dolphins were a very good defense early even without Ramsey playing, and later lost a number of key starters to injury. Bills were ravaged the whole year with them. Commanders were bad and even worse after they had traded away Montez Sweat and Chase Young.
Giants will need to do something at QB. The solution isn't an old, tired vet getting 3-4 starts. That solves jack shit. Draft a kid in rounds 1 or rounds 2-3. Build for the future. They need to do the same at running back and not fork over big dollars while not being a contender.
Quote:
Until he works this out.
He has some ability as a thrower but it was pretty clear that his internal clock and decision-making were way out of whack.
Jones is ... also unplayable! Only a handful of elite O-lines in the league, and for those without, you need a QB you can escape and make quick decisions. Jones ability to run probably got him paid, but he's not nearly quick enough making decisions or manipulating 2nd and 3rd level defenders to be a difference maker through the air. Next.
Oh trust me, I'm no fan of Jones but he's at least been better in the past than what he showed last season, even if he's never been great at managing pressure.
You have to stop posting so many positive Daniel Jones threads!
(:-)
And not just a pressue from one missed block. Frquently had simultaneous jail breaks from all angles.
Way to brag that you don't understand the numbers.
How many teams would trade their WRs for the Chiefs WRs? Any?
Would you rather have the Giants WRs or the Chiefs?
I think the Giants need to draft QBs until they find one they can win a championship with. IMO that piece is not on the current roster.
IMO until that piece is in place nothing else matters.
The biggest piece of evidence that this is on Jones and De Vito: Tyrod Taylor isn't on this list. Something's wrong. Even if this is all on those two guys, there's a flaw in the personnel dept. that put them on the roster together.
2 - they both hold the ball too long
Talk about no one is open or talk about these guys not manipulating the pocket or whatever but ultimately these are really the main two factors in this PFF turning pressures into sacks “stat” in my opinion.
I mean, it's possible he has a bounce-back season in 2024 but he'd have to be 1) good and 2) healthy for 2 or 3 seasons in a row to have any chance of being the Giants' answer at QB. I think the chances of that are very slim. Close to zero, even.
How many teams would trade their WRs for the Chiefs WRs? Any?
Would you rather have the Giants WRs or the Chiefs?
I think the Giants need to draft QBs until they find one they can win a championship with. IMO that piece is not on the current roster.
IMO until that piece is in place nothing else matters.
Do you just ignore how poor their offense has been and how great their defense has been?
That's the graphic representation of being David Carr'd.
That's the graphic representation of being David Carr'd.
lol... another with the David Carr myth. Somehow Jones got Carr'd but Burrow, Levis, Tua, Cousins didn't. Jones got Carr'd because like Carr, he was a bad QB.
IMO, the fact DJ faced the quickest pressure combined with an astonishingly bad pressure % is what Carr'd him.
You say he always sucked. Good for you.
The sooner the idiots at 1925 Giants Way realize that, the better.
No, because it's a rate stat, not a counting stat.
Anybody who watched Jones and Devito in their games could see they were actively contributing to the sack totals and why Daboll wanted Taylor in literally as long as he had a pulse.
Can't just blame the OL all the time. Our QBs aren't good enough to overcome even mediocre OL play.
Everyone knows the line sucks and it has to be fixed. This "do you get a QB or fix the Oline?" question is idiotic. You do BOTH! BOTH are the problem.
I don't see anyone posting "Do we get a WR or Edge this year?" You know why? Because you can do BOTH.
He was sacked 43 times on 143 pressures in 2022, for 31%
Golden boy Barkley was bad and is a below average pass blocker. Thomas was hurt.
There are many reasons why the Giants were bad, it’s not all on Jones.
Comparing him to Mahomes is stupid. No one else is as good as Mahomes. All the other QBs mentioned have at least one star player to throw to. We hitched our wagon to Waller as our star acquisition who hasn’t been a star in 2 years you get what you get. Our best player on O is an OT and it’s not even close for 2nd. Barkley at a whopping 3.9 yards per carry couldn’t perform behind this OL either
[quote] In comment 16398191 Bruner4329 said:
Quote:
Do you think it has anything to do with the fact we had the worst OL in the league that gave up the most sacks by far. Any QB at some point would be shell shocked to play behind this OL.
And not just a pressue from one missed block. Frquently had simultaneous jail.
YES!!
2 - they both hold the ball too long
Talk about no one is open or talk about these guys not manipulating the pocket or whatever but ultimately these are really the main two factors in this PFF turning pressures into sacks “stat” in my opinion.
To your point, no one is open is the reason they hold the ball to long, trying to make a play.
Quote:
1 - the OL stinks
2 - they both hold the ball too long
Talk about no one is open or talk about these guys not manipulating the pocket or whatever but ultimately these are really the main two factors in this PFF turning pressures into sacks “stat” in my opinion.
To your point, no one is open is the reason they hold the ball to long, trying to make a play.
Giants receivers were near the top of the league in separation again.
I don’t think Jones defenders actually understand the stat. His percentage was basically the same in 2022.
Quote:
1 - the OL stinks
2 - they both hold the ball too long
Talk about no one is open or talk about these guys not manipulating the pocket or whatever but ultimately these are really the main two factors in this PFF turning pressures into sacks “stat” in my opinion.
To your point, no one is open is the reason they hold the ball to long, trying to make a play.
How many open receivers doing jumping jacks do we need to see?
He didn't turn the ball over for that stretch.
Took a ton of sacks.
It helps to be so if all of your O-linemen are in the top 20, at their position ....
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38356170/2023-nfl-pass-rush-run-stop-blocking-win-rate-rankings-top-players-teams
IOL - Joe Tierney (#1), Creed Humprey (#2), Trey Smith (#4)
OT - Jawann Taylor (#15), Donovan Smith (#17)
Note: Adding insult-to-injury; Ex Giants' BBI "hated ones" -
IOLs Will Hernandez #13 and Jon Feliciano #18.
Remember how HELPLESS Mahomes looked in Super Bowl LV, when he was running for his life, all day, because his sucked ? The Bucs administered a 31-9 whipping.
Mahomes was on one leg against TB and 4/5 of the line was backups (one being a third string PSer).
Great QBs make pedestrian players look better.
Small sample size, but DeVito had 2 disastrous sack games - Saints (7), Pats (6). 2 sacks total in his other 3 games.
Quote:
Jones faced (easily) the quickest pressure in the NFL & the highest pressure % rate in the NFL.
That's the graphic representation of being David Carr'd.
lol... another with the David Carr myth. Somehow Jones got Carr'd but Burrow, Levis, Tua, Cousins didn't. Jones got Carr'd because like Carr, he was a bad QB.
David Carr was actually pretty good for a time. Even with Data, you insist the oline wasn't a real problem, and that.. No, you don't need a functional oline to be successful. Burrow got injured with his terrible line, and when they started blocking and got healthy Jake Browning (JAKE BROWNING) looked good. But don't let data sway your dug in position. He's the guy at the top of graph. He had Tee Higgins, He had Jamar Chase, and a functioning oline at the end of the year. Supported by data.
I'm calling you guys the Binary take club. Good/Bad, no such thing as gray. Context means nothing right?
Quote:
In comment 16398254 mittenedman said:
Quote:
Jones faced (easily) the quickest pressure in the NFL & the highest pressure % rate in the NFL.
That's the graphic representation of being David Carr'd.
lol... another with the David Carr myth. Somehow Jones got Carr'd but Burrow, Levis, Tua, Cousins didn't. Jones got Carr'd because like Carr, he was a bad QB.
David Carr was actually pretty good for a time. Even with Data, you insist the oline wasn't a real problem, and that.. No, you don't need a functional oline to be successful. Burrow got injured with his terrible line, and when they started blocking and got healthy Jake Browning (JAKE BROWNING) looked good. But don't let data sway your dug in position. He's the guy at the top of graph. He had Tee Higgins, He had Jamar Chase, and a functioning oline at the end of the year. Supported by data.
I'm calling you guys the Binary take club. Good/Bad, no such thing as gray. Context means nothing right?
Sorry, dude. You don't have data. You have a bunch of vague assertions stitched together by a bogus theory. Burrow had bad OLs after the injury. Herbert had atrocious OLs. Eli Manning won a Super Bowl with a shit OL. Beyond that, there isn't a single bit of compelling evidence that David Carr was any good as a QB other than, I saw him throw a tight spiral once, I saw him play a good game once. Good QBs put together good careers by doing the job over and over again with consistency, play after play, game after game, season after season. All these highly drafted QBs get enough starts to prove their worth. If they still suck after 60 career starts, that's it -- you suck. That's the situation with Carr, and it's the situation with Daniel Jones. Carr had plenty of opportunities to show he can play. Jones had plenty of opportunities to show he can play. The bad play outweighs the good play. It's as simple as that. And when you can't put up much more good play than bad play, then you don't start in the NFL. Except if you play for the New York fucking Giants, where you can suck for half a decade but management, and an unbelievably large percentage of deluded fans, think a small fraction of decent play is the real QB, and all the bad stuff, piles of bad plays, bad games, and bad seasons, they don't exist.
I agree our org was and could still be broken, and am frustrated. Changing coordinators every year, having historically terrible O-lines, and no weapons but an oft injured running back are some big issues as well. The suck is/was everywhere. Your binary argument pins the sole success of this franchise on one player out of 22.. when he’s has time to throw, he’s been pretty good. If we can upgrade, awesome, all for it. But this droning on how he’s solely responsible shows a lack of understanding of the game, and how important protection is.
The final four this year .. Eagles, Ravens, Niners, Chiefs all had very good olines. Their QB’s? Not as linear an argument.