And pressing ones, at that.
I like Schoen for the most part and I'm happy he was brought back with Daboll, but this team is absolutely riddled with holes.
- QB - we need a franchise QB
- RB - we need a starting bellcow RB, as Saquon looks to be going elsehwere.
- WR - we need a legit #1 WR (or maybe we luck into the next Mahomes and we won't need one).
- TE - we may need a starting TE if Waller is cut
- We may need a starting RT (depending on how optimistic you are about Neal), but at the very least, we need two starting O-Linemen: either two starting OGs or a starting OG and a starting RT.
- Two starting DEs next to Dexter
- EDGE, unless you think Ojulari can be productive and stay healthy
-ILB, unless you think McFadden has proven he can be a starter going forward
-Starting CB opposite Tae Banks
- Starting S if McKinney walks and you're not a fan of Pinnock and Belton being the starters going forward
-LS
Fall into filling needs trap, and then suddenly people start thinking the roster's ready to win.
In fairness, the cupboard was completely bare....
It's not really that far if Schoen can deliver two straight strong offseasons. Nothing beyond 2 years exists for turning a franchise around. If it takes longer than 2 years, there will likely be a new regime. The Lions are a prime example.
2021: Dan Campbell entry point, 3-13-1
2023: Lost in the NFC title game
The Lions regime flipped it in 2 years. The Eagles from 2020-2022 is another example. The Texans another example.
A lot on BBI like to say 4-5 years, that's antiquated thinking. Count 2022 as improbable success. Count 2023 as a dud. Schoen better have this franchise swimming in the deep end of the NFC pool by 2025 or he will be fired imo.
2023: suffer bad season with Taylor as cheap bridge QB
2024: enter season with few expensive contracts - Thomas & Lawrence at most; have high draft pick in strong QB draft; begin building in earnest
That's a sound plan. Unfortunately that's not the way it went.
2023: suffer bad season with Taylor as cheap bridge QB
2024: enter season with few expensive contracts - Thomas & Lawrence at most; have high draft pick in strong QB draft; begin building in earnest
That's a sound plan. Unfortunately that's not the way it went.
The Viking playoff game really set the franchise back. Had the Vikings not faded late and the Niners got the 3 seed, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The Giants would have lost a game like they did to Philly and Jones would have likely looked poor against the Niners defense. It sucks how it's turned out. Schoen does have the chance to correct it this offseason though.
The problem is the Giants are owned and run by dumb people, and Schoen is either also dumb or unable to manage the dumb people above him. Throw in an entrenched Giants media machine and a generally gullible fanbase, and here we are.
Yup. The worst thing the Giants could do is draft a WR at 6. It will make zero difference.
If the player groups are looked at; QB, RB, TE, REC, DL, LB, CB, S and ST, the ONE glaring weakness above all is the NFL's worst OL in more than 3 decades.
Multiply that X 32 teams, and it's the league's absolute worst OL out of 1,000+ offensive lines over that time frame.
I've only mentioned the players on the field. The needs at ownership, general manager, head coach, position coaches, etc...are unknown, because no one really knows what those people are thinking and doing.
(other than sitting around the building, and lying to themselves, as a poster mentioned a few months ago)
This franchise is sinking and sinking fast.
If Joe doesn't bring in the QB that can excite this franchise, it will be basically years of bottom of the standings finishes.
No-one will want to play here when we don't have exciting leaders and half empty stadiums.
We need a rb - if saquaon leaves, a TE if Waller doesn't return and a safety if McKinley isn't resigned. KC needs a QB if Mahomes gets hurt and The Giants need an olt if Andrews contracts covid or breaks a leg getting out of bed.
If that "through the looking Glass" hyperbole suits you ...by all means indulge.
We do not need a WR. Hyatt and Robinson showed a lot and like Topsy
"are daily growing". Waller and Saquon add homerun potential and Darius Slayton is a fine no.3 receiver and Isiah Hodgins is nice for possession and in the red zone. All of which doesn't mean you don't grab one if the stars align with The Southern Cross.
Biggest need on D is cornerback and a solid down lineman next to Dexter. But even so, it's not impossible that the answer is on the roster. Davidson and Ryan are intriquing prospects and if Robinson and Roche underperformed last year, I'm somewhat inclined to blame it on Wink's situation.
Flott, Tae Hawkins, the maligned Holmes.....one of those should reasonably emerge. I'd also say that as a unit any group that has two potential probowl types like Banks and McKinney project to be can exist with merely adequate players at the other positions. Though I"d rate Belton and Pinnock as moer than merely "adequate".
Edge rusher could be added, but that's true of every team in the league and they ould be strong if Thibs continues to improve and Olujari finally achieves his potential.
Could it be that the answer for the O line is on the roster? JMC figures to vastly improve ...simply because he's in the year where greatest improvement occurand he has a better o line coach. Between Ezeudu, Benson and Shane Liemeux you think we might find one starter.
I kinda liked Pert and am half prepared to think that's another example of coaching. I thibk the kid from Phila via the Giants is an adequate swing tackle
CB, Down Lineman, offensive guard, Off right tackle, edge that's six players ...with potential answers on the roster.
We have a no.2 in the Williams trade and the 6th. and 38th as a result of our own malfeaseance. We have to score with each of those. Then I think you can reasonably expect to find one more starter wthrough roundsunds 3 through URFA.
I have read (and accept) that an easy restructure of Lawrence and Andrews salary can give them 60 million in cap space. Four picks and as many as three plus free agents - after resigning Saquon and McKinney.
Assuming the coaching is better and that Jones can perform with a good cast, there's no reason we don't have the resources to contend with a "perhaps" fading Eagles and Cowboy teams.
Outstanding: marked by eminence and distinction.
Just FYI. Seems like you forgot the meaning.
DL We don't need One starter on DL
OLB We don't need one edge
MLB we don't need a middle LB
CB we don't need one starter
Safety we don't need 1 safety or won't need two if we sign McKinney
P we don't need a punter
K we don't need a kicker
Whoever is the highest graded player is who we should take. Obviously position value is part of the grade assigned.
We have needs at every position. Safety might be the exception if we sign McKinney.
Hey, we need a backup swing!
Quote:
Before Jones tore his ACL, Hyatt was running free twice for what could have been TD's. Jones couldn't get him the ball. What's the difference if that is Malik Nabers?
Yup. The worst thing the Giants could do is draft a WR at 6. It will make zero difference.
Finally someone that understands that a wr is not the biggest need.
2023: suffer bad season with Taylor as cheap bridge QB
2024: enter season with few expensive contracts - Thomas & Lawrence at most; have high draft pick in strong QB draft; begin building in earnest
That's a sound plan. Unfortunately that's not the way it went.
Mara wasn't going to let this team take an honest look at 2022 and do what needed to be done. In his mind the 2022 team was like a Superbowl team.
We need a rb - if saquaon leaves, a TE if Waller doesn't return and a safety if McKinley isn't resigned. KC needs a QB if Mahomes gets hurt and The Giants need an olt if Andrews contracts covid or breaks a leg getting out of bed.
If that "through the looking Glass" hyperbole suits you ...by all means indulge.
We do not need a WR. Hyatt and Robinson showed a lot and like Topsy
"are daily growing". Waller and Saquon add homerun potential and Darius Slayton is a fine no.3 receiver and Isiah Hodgins is nice for possession and in the red zone. All of which doesn't mean you don't grab one if the stars align with The Southern Cross.
Biggest need on D is cornerback and a solid down lineman next to Dexter. But even so, it's not impossible that the answer is on the roster. Davidson and Ryan are intriquing prospects and if Robinson and Roche underperformed last year, I'm somewhat inclined to blame it on Wink's situation.
Flott, Tae Hawkins, the maligned Holmes.....one of those should reasonably emerge. I'd also say that as a unit any group that has two potential probowl types like Banks and McKinney project to be can exist with merely adequate players at the other positions. Though I"d rate Belton and Pinnock as moer than merely "adequate".
Edge rusher could be added, but that's true of every team in the league and they ould be strong if Thibs continues to improve and Olujari finally achieves his potential.
Could it be that the answer for the O line is on the roster? JMC figures to vastly improve ...simply because he's in the year where greatest improvement occurand he has a better o line coach. Between Ezeudu, Benson and Shane Liemeux you think we might find one starter.
I kinda liked Pert and am half prepared to think that's another example of coaching. I thibk the kid from Phila via the Giants is an adequate swing tackle
CB, Down Lineman, offensive guard, Off right tackle, edge that's six players ...with potential answers on the roster.
We have a no.2 in the Williams trade and the 6th. and 38th as a result of our own malfeaseance. We have to score with each of those. Then I think you can reasonably expect to find one more starter wthrough roundsunds 3 through URFA.
I have read (and accept) that an easy restructure of Lawrence and Andrews salary can give them 60 million in cap space. Four picks and as many as three plus free agents - after resigning Saquon and McKinney.
Assuming the coaching is better and that Jones can perform with a good cast, there's no reason we don't have the resources to contend with a "perhaps" fading Eagles and Cowboy teams.
How is QB not a reasonable need? Jones has been terrible - and even if you believe that somehow there's some talent there that needs to be mined out, that's his 2nd season ending injury in 3 seasons. QB has to be addressed. Even if not by a first round pick, this team definitely needs to draft one.
He’s gotta be related to him.
DL We don't need One starter on DL
OLB We don't need one edge
MLB we don't need a middle LB
CB we don't need one starter
Safety we don't need 1 safety or won't need two if we sign McKinney
P we don't need a punter
K we don't need a kicker
To focus on the QB with so many other needs is ridiculous. If you can get one by moving up within reason- sure. Or in later rounds - sure.
To say that if the Giants don't get the QB in rd 1 then they blew it - etc- is lunacy. Those are the same posters that bury their head in the sand with the results the 49ers have shown.
2023: suffer bad season with Taylor as cheap bridge QB
2024: enter season with few expensive contracts - Thomas & Lawrence at most; have high draft pick in strong QB draft; begin building in earnest
That's a sound plan. Unfortunately that's not the way it went.
.
SF is stud driven.....but for how long? I can not imagine they will start losing talent
And obviously, the Giants have yet to make up any delta against the Cowboys..BUT hopefully yes, with the Eagles and Commanders.
Making the playoff and beating the Viking is now viewed as bad? Seriously?!?!l
Let's add, winning the Super Bowl was the cause of the downturn.
A Rush End a 3/4 linebacker end
Running back
I want a blocking Tight End
Safety
Cornerback
Wide receiver as well but not sure how high we end up drafting one
Add some cheaper pieces to fill in some blatant holes or some depth. But no reason to weigh the franchise down much at all with anything contractually burdensome, or take on unnecessary risks.
There are great NFL players and there are bad NFL players. Most are some where in the middle. All have talent. Very good NFL coaches can bring out the best in the players that they have by either improving the player and/or putting them in a position to succeed. (See Sean McVay and Steve Spagnuolo).
How did McVay turn the Rams into contenders after losing so many players? He had some good players left on the roster and built around them. The Rams are not nearly as talented as other NFC teams and should have lost to the Giants. But McVay took what he had, added players with enough ability to make the roster and designed a system that allowed these players to succeed. His assistant coaches did a fantastic job developing players and getting the most out of them. He has a more than competent QB that was able to find his WRs and TE and make plays.
The Giants problem is that they do not develop the players that they draft. Classic example is the offensive line. Evan Neal was one of if not the highest rated OT in the draft and is worse now than before he was drafted. Josh Ezeudu played 3 or 4 positions in college, well, and is a disaster despite VG movement skills and excellent athletic ability. Why did these two guys not develop at ALL? Poor coaching. In fact, the line coaching has sucked since 2011. The Giants have had good FA linemen signed and none have panned out. How is that even possible.
Another example is Dex Lawrence. He was moved to DE after being drafted and was meh/ok for two years. Andre Patterson comes, Dex is moved to NT (Where a 342 player should be) and becomes a top player in the league.
Jerome Henderson has done a very good job with the DBs - he develops players and in 2022 after the group was decimated by injuries, cobbled together enough good play from marginal players to get them to the playoffs.
The Giants need an upgrade at QB, without doubt, or they go nowhere. They need to fix the line so the QB isn't being carted to the hospital and the RBs are not met 1/2 step after the handoff.
The NFL has a history of players becoming far greater than perceived. But by and by, the majority of players are grouped in the middle in athletic ability. It is a combination of hard work by the player to overcome flaws and a coaching staff that coaches up a player that allows team to be good.
IMHO, while the Giants are lacking in talented players, they have sufficient to be "competitive" if they get the right coaching. If Bricillo can do ANYTHING with the oline that is a huge improvement and the single most important upgrade to the entire team. Yes QB change is a necessity. But it comes down to coaching. Drew Wilkins failed with the OLB development. Johnson completely screwed up the oline. Bischof did nothing with TE.
Yes, smart scouting is hugely important, but it goes nowhere if the players do not develop. And that is on the coaches.
One other example - Houston Texans. DeMeco Ryans did a phenomenal job coaching that team. Yes CJ Stroud did a bang up job in his rookie season. But the entire team elevated with him to become contenders. They will improve.
So while we grouse about the lack of perceived talent on the roster, lets look at the position groups individually to see which groups succeeded(even marginally) or failed and compare it with the expected talent within that group.
IMHO
Should be greener (Barkley and Jones).
Bottom line is that there are a TON of open roster spots vacated by players that played a lot of snaps.
It will be interesting to see how many of our own get resigned...but I have a feeling that there's going to be a lot of new players on the 53 man roster this summer.
Trading down from #6 makes a bunch of sense for this reason.