I wish I had saved it so I could post it in it's entirety but about a month ago I wrote Mara a lengthy letter expressing my thoughts on the current direction of the team, my displeasure at how they've handled the QB position and strongly suggested that they take this QB class very seriously even if that means being overly aggressive in ensuring they find their future QB. I didn't hold anything back, I mentioned how insane it would be to give Jones yet another year given what we've seen so far and how doing so would almost certainly lead to yet another house cleaning next offseason in a much weaker QB class (as of now). I also said that if they did that I wouldn't spend a dime on this team next year.
I didn't expect to hear back but I wanted him to know how many of us feel as fans right now. I don't know what I expected him to reply if he did but it certainly wasn't what he wrote.
Here was his reply
He wrote back very quickly to a 2 page letter so I imagine that he reads everything he receives. Ultimately it may not make a difference but I'd urge others that feel this way to write to him, it certainly can't hurt to hear from as many fans as possible.
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"I do not believe we are ready to give up on Daniel Jones."
Whether or not that's true (and yes of course he isn't going to indicate they are moving on), I don't think the question should be about giving up on him. Rather, is he earning his job? Is he being made to earn it?
Welcome to the Giants, where reasons are found to keep underperforming family members like Jones, Shepard, Gettleman, and (gasp) late career Eli rather than establishing a meritocracy where roles are earned and the best candidates rise to the top.
Im not sure if you should be rooting for this team. All you do is talk shit on literally everything they do and honestly it gets tiresome.
There seems to be group of people here that just do nothing but bash the team. Even when they say something is good about the team, its because another component of the team screwed it up. If you are so down on the team, why discuss it to begin with.?
I came here because I love talking ball and the Giants and none of my peers are into it like I am. Ive stopped texting Hisnts fams friends because I started getting responses like "the team's been dead for ____ weeks, what is there to talk about and why do youwant to talk about a bad team?" The answer is because I want them to turn it around and have to believe that ownership does too.
I do not believe for a second that Mara is meddling any more at this point. I think he made it abundantly clear to Schoen about his fondness for Jones/Barkley and after last year, Schoen was under a ton of pressure to give Jones the contract combined with there not being a qb option where we were drafting, and flushing a playoff season by letting him 2alk would have been a tough ask to have Schoen tell Mara.
But some of you legitimately post the most miserable things about a team you say you care about. This is a fact: its not fun to read the same thought over and over again.
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would not even talk to his guys about something like their plans for the future of the QB position. I have no idea what world some people live in.
I actually agree that most owners do weigh in on major personnel decisions. The starting QB is definitely a major personnel decision.
John Mara doesn't differ from his fellow owners in having a preference and stating that preference. Where he differs that not all owners get so attached to abject mediocrity.
The culture in NYG has always been one of having healthy discussion. We have heard this so many times when they account how picks are made. They encourage opinions, but at the end of the day the GM has the final say, unless the Owner actively steps in and overrides. Now like everything else, there are degrees to that last statement. A decision is make but to what degree has the process influenced that decision? That probably depends on a lot of factors, including the make up of the GM and the level of conviction and confidence he has. This is just my uninformed impression, but I get the idea that DG was a weaker willed GM than the pair of BD and JS. And when GM and HC are fully aligned, that would be a very strong force to overcome, one would assume. If they are in contention, you could see how other influences might weigh heavily as a tie breaker.
I didn't think to save it but from what I can recall, I said that I was one of the few fans who initially was excited about the Jones pick and was optimistic about his success after his rookie year and stayed positive even after year 2 but by every statistic and advanced metric he hasn't developed the way we'd all hoped.
Mentioned how noticeable the difference was with Tyrod under center and at times Devito. I also wrote about how Jones seemed like a great person and hard worker and as a person has been easy to root for with the caveat that there's just no way for the Giants to escape where we've been for the last decade without getting vastly improved play at the QB position. I also added in the fact that there's no precedent in the modern era for a QB struggling in year 5 to suddenly turn it around in year 6 and that no other team has ever given a QB that kind of leash.
P.S. How about that wildcard victory in Minnesota?
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The letter has two key statements in it:
although I do not believe we are ready to give up on Daniel Jones
Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll will make the final call on whether we draft a quarterback.
Some focus only on one statement, while others only focus on the other.
Jones is guaranteed $35.5M in 2024 and has a $47M cap hit. So, the first comment doesn't really surprise me or bother me.
The Jones contract is not crippling. I expect Schoen/Daboll to aggressively pursue a QB in April via the draft. If they don't AND do not at least get a haul of picks in multiple trade downs (assuming the top 3 QB's are taken), I'll lose all confidence in this regime.
Hi Sean. I, as a fan desperately want the Giants to pick a qb high. A 2nd round pick of a qb that seemingly has good value would help a bit if they are not able to grab one with their higher pick, but not preferred. I hear you about the opportunity to add ammunition for next draft and I would also be likely disappointed if they stay put at 6 without a qb to show for it.
I feel I am have been pretty patient with Jones (some would say too patient which is fair), but I, like many others just have not seen that rare ability that can change a game on a consistent basis.
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In comment 16398643 ChrisRick said:
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The letter has two key statements in it:
although I do not believe we are ready to give up on Daniel Jones
Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll will make the final call on whether we draft a quarterback.
Some focus only on one statement, while others only focus on the other.
Jones is guaranteed $35.5M in 2024 and has a $47M cap hit. So, the first comment doesn't really surprise me or bother me.
The Jones contract is not crippling. I expect Schoen/Daboll to aggressively pursue a QB in April via the draft. If they don't AND do not at least get a haul of picks in multiple trade downs (assuming the top 3 QB's are taken), I'll lose all confidence in this regime.
Hi Sean. I, as a fan desperately want the Giants to pick a qb high. A 2nd round pick of a qb that seemingly has good value would help a bit if they are not able to grab one with their higher pick, but not preferred. I hear you about the opportunity to add ammunition for next draft and I would also be likely disappointed if they stay put at 6 without a qb to show for it.
I feel I am have been pretty patient with Jones (some would say too patient which is fair), but I, like many others just have not seen that rare ability that can change a game on a consistent basis.
The Giants roster just has too many holes to overcome a player at the most important position that is a dime a dozen so to speak.
although I do not believe we are ready to give up on Daniel Jones
Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll will make the final call on whether we draft a quarterback.
Some focus only on one statement, while others only focus on the other.
I have boxed myself into the second statement because I believe Schoen made the call on the Jones contract without Mara leaning on him. By hiring Schoen, Mara took a big step getting out of his comfort zone by not hiring a GM with past ties to Jints Central. And I actually believe he wanted to redesign the decision-making process by giving Schoen the final gavel on personnel.
Now, you can't rule out Mara being unable to help himself and pulling the ownership card to get what he wants. But there are too many clues to date that suggest - to me - that Schoen really likes Jones and thinks they can compete for big prizes with him.
Starting March 13th through April 27th, we will find out exactly where Schoen stands.
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In comment 16398428 Sean said:
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To say he sucks not even 6 full games later. My hope is Schoen did put an escape hatch in the deal which is 1 year from now and Jones has since suffered a neck and ACL. The team is also not nearly as close as they thought they were a year ago.
I think all these things provide an easy pivot to Schoen without ever having to admit that Jones is a bad player.
They are never going to say he sucks. But it’s 17 games since the extension, not 6. Him being unavailable for 11 of them absolutely counts in the evaluation. We need to stop saying 6 games. The other 11 count just as much, maybe more
It’s plainly obvious Jones can't be relied upon to be a winning QB. I wpuld say most fans acknowledge that. But having it repeated by people here who have nothing better to do but ruin conversatins being had about the team. It’s not like there is some massive wave of Jones support prior to these responses. There are people who won't even let the offseason start before they start bitching and as inciteful as these people might be (I for one think the ideas are quite extreme and defies any logic for a front office), they repeat them 8n the same tone even though everybody is aware of the stance and is tired of hearing the same high school loudspeaker annoucements in every thread they peek into.
Mentioned how noticeable the difference was with Tyrod under center and at times Devito. I also wrote about how Jones seemed like a great person and hard worker and as a person has been easy to root for with the caveat that there's just no way for the Giants to escape where we've been for the last decade without getting vastly improved play at the QB position. I also added in the fact that there's no precedent in the modern era for a QB struggling in year 5 to suddenly turn it around in year 6 and that no other team has ever given a QB that kind of leash.
There is one precedent I can find in relatively recent history - the Cardinals and Jake Plummer. He made it to year six, struggled again, then got sent to the Broncos where he had a few years of actual solid play with Mike Shannahan.
I could see a similar scenario with Jones. He might eventually have a revival somewhere else...it just won't be with the Giants for numerous reasons. Sometimes a fresh start is good for everyone involved.
Starting March 13th through April 27th, we will find out exactly where Schoen stands.
This.
Not a single word uttered between now and these dates means anything. It will be clear where Schoen has cast his lot by April 27th. Fan guesses don't matter.
The fact that he’s had 2 awful neck injuries already, sorry but he’s not going to play for 5 more years. Why just wait and wait and wait and hope that your team has another bad year but the QB class is good enough where it helps. Next years QB class as of now isn’t good. Things change, but if they have another awful season, do you panic and take a QB next year where the 1 QB is likely Cam Ward who would be QB5 this year? He’s 8 months older than JJ McCarthy now who is QB3/4 this year.
Quote:
The letter has two key statements in it:
although I do not believe we are ready to give up on Daniel Jones
Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll will make the final call on whether we draft a quarterback.
Some focus only on one statement, while others only focus on the other.
I have boxed myself into the second statement because I believe Schoen made the call on the Jones contract without Mara leaning on him. By hiring Schoen, Mara took a big step getting out of his comfort zone by not hiring a GM with past ties to Jints Central. And I actually believe he wanted to redesign the decision-making process by giving Schoen the final gavel on personnel.
Now, you can't rule out Mara being unable to help himself and pulling the ownership card to get what he wants. But there are too many clues to date that suggest - to me - that Schoen really likes Jones and thinks they can compete for big prizes with him.
Starting March 13th through April 27th, we will find out exactly where Schoen stands.
It’s possible Schoen believes in Jones but my perspective is different. He’s the same guy that declined Jones’ fifth year option right off the bat. He obviously wasn’t thrilled with what he’d seen from the outside, on film. Then the fluke ‘22 season happened. That season put Schoen in a bind. Jones just went to the playoffs and won a game. I can absolutely see a world where Schoen was conflicted but after looking at the landscape and what other options were available, he talked himself into the fact that Jones was the best option and he decided to make a huge gamble that along with Daboll they could get Jones to a level he hadn’t previously been at.
Imo, it was a rookie mistake from a first time GM that hopefully he learns from. As you said, we will soon find out how he really feels…
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Mentioned how noticeable the difference was with Tyrod under center and at times Devito. I also wrote about how Jones seemed like a great person and hard worker and as a person has been easy to root for with the caveat that there's just no way for the Giants to escape where we've been for the last decade without getting vastly improved play at the QB position. I also added in the fact that there's no precedent in the modern era for a QB struggling in year 5 to suddenly turn it around in year 6 and that no other team has ever given a QB that kind of leash.
There is one precedent I can find in relatively recent history - the Cardinals and Jake Plummer. He made it to year six, struggled again, then got sent to the Broncos where he had a few years of actual solid play with Mike Shannahan.
I could see a similar scenario with Jones. He might eventually have a revival somewhere else...it just won't be with the Giants for numerous reasons. Sometimes a fresh start is good for everyone involved.
That's a good one. Plummer is probably the best Jones comp out there in terms of the way that the lack of talent elsewhere on the team where the blame was placed. He also became a fan favorite his second year after winning the team's first playoff game in 50 years against the 90's Cowboys.
I guess it depends on how you define "modern era" since the rule changes that began in 04 started the passing explosion and made the QB position even more important than it already was.
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In comment 16398643 ChrisRick said:
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The letter has two key statements in it:
although I do not believe we are ready to give up on Daniel Jones
Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll will make the final call on whether we draft a quarterback.
Some focus only on one statement, while others only focus on the other.
I have boxed myself into the second statement because I believe Schoen made the call on the Jones contract without Mara leaning on him. By hiring Schoen, Mara took a big step getting out of his comfort zone by not hiring a GM with past ties to Jints Central. And I actually believe he wanted to redesign the decision-making process by giving Schoen the final gavel on personnel.
Now, you can't rule out Mara being unable to help himself and pulling the ownership card to get what he wants. But there are too many clues to date that suggest - to me - that Schoen really likes Jones and thinks they can compete for big prizes with him.
Starting March 13th through April 27th, we will find out exactly where Schoen stands.
It’s possible Schoen believes in Jones but my perspective is different. He’s the same guy that declined Jones’ fifth year option right off the bat. He obviously wasn’t thrilled with what he’d seen from the outside, on film. Then the fluke ‘22 season happened. That season put Schoen in a bind. Jones just went to the playoffs and won a game. I can absolutely see a world where Schoen was conflicted but after looking at the landscape and what other options were available, he talked himself into the fact that Jones was the best option and he decided to make a huge gamble that along with Daboll they could get Jones to a level he hadn’t previously been at.
Imo, it was a rookie mistake from a first time GM that hopefully he learns from. As you said, we will soon find out how he really feels…
ding ding
Why? His expertise at designing modern NFL offenses or hiring coaches who can (Matt Patricia/Joe Judge)? His drafting acumen? His post-Brady track record?
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In comment 16398643 ChrisRick said:
Quote:
The letter has two key statements in it:
although I do not believe we are ready to give up on Daniel Jones
Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll will make the final call on whether we draft a quarterback.
Some focus only on one statement, while others only focus on the other.
I have boxed myself into the second statement because I believe Schoen made the call on the Jones contract without Mara leaning on him. By hiring Schoen, Mara took a big step getting out of his comfort zone by not hiring a GM with past ties to Jints Central. And I actually believe he wanted to redesign the decision-making process by giving Schoen the final gavel on personnel.
Now, you can't rule out Mara being unable to help himself and pulling the ownership card to get what he wants. But there are too many clues to date that suggest - to me - that Schoen really likes Jones and thinks they can compete for big prizes with him.
Starting March 13th through April 27th, we will find out exactly where Schoen stands.
It’s possible Schoen believes in Jones but my perspective is different. He’s the same guy that declined Jones’ fifth year option right off the bat. He obviously wasn’t thrilled with what he’d seen from the outside, on film. Then the fluke ‘22 season happened. That season put Schoen in a bind. Jones just went to the playoffs and won a game. I can absolutely see a world where Schoen was conflicted but after looking at the landscape and what other options were available, he talked himself into the fact that Jones was the best option and he decided to make a huge gamble that along with Daboll they could get Jones to a level he hadn’t previously been at.
Imo, it was a rookie mistake from a first time GM that hopefully he learns from. As you said, we will soon find out how he really feels…
Fair points by both of you two. The injury clause in the Jones contract is a huge issue as well as his murky status for camp/the start of the regular season for the Giants if they plan to move up for one of the top qbs. I think it is doubtful Jones is ready for camp or the early part of the season. If the rookie wins the job in camp, but struggles significantly while Jones is out, what happens when Jones is healthy? A strictly business decision would be to sit Jones no matter what, but I don't think the Giants or really too many other teams would prefer that. It seems typical in the league (whether we agree or not) teams would prefer to give their qb who they recently invested in the opportunity to play for their job. This is not your normal, 'time to replace the starter with a hot rookie' situation, it seems more delicate than that to me.
It will certainly be interesting.
For me, I really need to see what happens this offseason before I lump Schoen & Daboll into the prior decade.
I get your support Sean for Daboll. He is clearly a very good coach and an expert quarterback whisperer. But the team's performance in 2023 was a massive red flag. As is the Wink fallout. If 2024 is another disaster, he will lose the locker room and Mara will unfortunately be forced to make a change. The one exception is if they get a quarterback on the roster with an elite ceiling and we see some of that Daboll magic that gives the locker room a massive injection of hope for the post-2024 team.
Schoen has less latitude now because of the DJ contract. Whether he was just being a good soldier in supporting Mara or actually believed that paying a "Mitch Trubisky talent" "Josh Allen money" made sense, is somewhat irrelevant. It is one of the worst decisions made by this team's front office in its history. So as BW has said repeatedly, I am not sure that Schoen isn't just a more polished and articulate Gettleman who simply does Mara's bidding, rather than saving Mara from himself.
So to weigh in on your question, unless Schoen and Daboll quickly pivot, they will simply become future casualties not dissimilar to their immediate predecessors.
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Just out of curiosity, you don't separate this regime at all from what happened prior?
For me, I really need to see what happens this offseason before I lump Schoen & Daboll into the prior decade.
I get your support Sean for Daboll. He is clearly a very good coach and an expert quarterback whisperer. But the team's performance in 2023 was a massive red flag. As is the Wink fallout. If 2024 is another disaster, he will lose the locker room and Mara will unfortunately be forced to make a change. The one exception is if they get a quarterback on the roster with an elite ceiling and we see some of that Daboll magic that gives the locker room a massive injection of hope for the post-2024 team.
Schoen has less latitude now because of the DJ contract. Whether he was just being a good soldier in supporting Mara or actually believed that paying a "Mitch Trubisky talent" "Josh Allen money" made sense, is somewhat irrelevant. It is one of the worst decisions made by this team's front office in its history. So as BW has said repeatedly, I am not sure that Schoen isn't just a more polished and articulate Gettleman who simply does Mara's bidding, rather than saving Mara from himself.
So to weigh in on your question, unless Schoen and Daboll quickly pivot, they will simply become future casualties not dissimilar to their immediate predecessors.
You are pinning the Wink fallout on Daboll?
Really?
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In comment 16398617 Sean said:
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Just out of curiosity, you don't separate this regime at all from what happened prior?
For me, I really need to see what happens this offseason before I lump Schoen & Daboll into the prior decade.
I get your support Sean for Daboll. He is clearly a very good coach and an expert quarterback whisperer. But the team's performance in 2023 was a massive red flag. As is the Wink fallout. If 2024 is another disaster, he will lose the locker room and Mara will unfortunately be forced to make a change. The one exception is if they get a quarterback on the roster with an elite ceiling and we see some of that Daboll magic that gives the locker room a massive injection of hope for the post-2024 team.
Schoen has less latitude now because of the DJ contract. Whether he was just being a good soldier in supporting Mara or actually believed that paying a "Mitch Trubisky talent" "Josh Allen money" made sense, is somewhat irrelevant. It is one of the worst decisions made by this team's front office in its history. So as BW has said repeatedly, I am not sure that Schoen isn't just a more polished and articulate Gettleman who simply does Mara's bidding, rather than saving Mara from himself.
So to weigh in on your question, unless Schoen and Daboll quickly pivot, they will simply become future casualties not dissimilar to their immediate predecessors.
You are pinning the Wink fallout on Daboll?
Really?
No. I am simply saying it is a red flag.
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In comment 16399018 The Mike said:
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In comment 16398617 Sean said:
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Just out of curiosity, you don't separate this regime at all from what happened prior?
For me, I really need to see what happens this offseason before I lump Schoen & Daboll into the prior decade.
I get your support Sean for Daboll. He is clearly a very good coach and an expert quarterback whisperer. But the team's performance in 2023 was a massive red flag. As is the Wink fallout. If 2024 is another disaster, he will lose the locker room and Mara will unfortunately be forced to make a change. The one exception is if they get a quarterback on the roster with an elite ceiling and we see some of that Daboll magic that gives the locker room a massive injection of hope for the post-2024 team.
Schoen has less latitude now because of the DJ contract. Whether he was just being a good soldier in supporting Mara or actually believed that paying a "Mitch Trubisky talent" "Josh Allen money" made sense, is somewhat irrelevant. It is one of the worst decisions made by this team's front office in its history. So as BW has said repeatedly, I am not sure that Schoen isn't just a more polished and articulate Gettleman who simply does Mara's bidding, rather than saving Mara from himself.
So to weigh in on your question, unless Schoen and Daboll quickly pivot, they will simply become future casualties not dissimilar to their immediate predecessors.
You are pinning the Wink fallout on Daboll?
Really?
No. I am simply saying it is a red flag.
Why is it a red flag if it is not the fault of Daboll?
Easy does it.
Pat? Haha! That is awesome
A John Mara simp. What a strange phenomenon
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In comment 16399020 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16399018 The Mike said:
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In comment 16398617 Sean said:
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Just out of curiosity, you don't separate this regime at all from what happened prior?
For me, I really need to see what happens this offseason before I lump Schoen & Daboll into the prior decade.
I get your support Sean for Daboll. He is clearly a very good coach and an expert quarterback whisperer. But the team's performance in 2023 was a massive red flag. As is the Wink fallout. If 2024 is another disaster, he will lose the locker room and Mara will unfortunately be forced to make a change. The one exception is if they get a quarterback on the roster with an elite ceiling and we see some of that Daboll magic that gives the locker room a massive injection of hope for the post-2024 team.
Schoen has less latitude now because of the DJ contract. Whether he was just being a good soldier in supporting Mara or actually believed that paying a "Mitch Trubisky talent" "Josh Allen money" made sense, is somewhat irrelevant. It is one of the worst decisions made by this team's front office in its history. So as BW has said repeatedly, I am not sure that Schoen isn't just a more polished and articulate Gettleman who simply does Mara's bidding, rather than saving Mara from himself.
So to weigh in on your question, unless Schoen and Daboll quickly pivot, they will simply become future casualties not dissimilar to their immediate predecessors.
You are pinning the Wink fallout on Daboll?
Really?
No. I am simply saying it is a red flag.
Why is it a red flag if it is not the fault of Daboll?
It is the emperor with no clothes problem and the rationale behind Belichick's recent negative comments disparaging the Giants' front office and advising coaching candidates to “stay away”.
What I loved about Wink's being here, in addition to his defensive philosophy which I strongly supported despite the uneven results, was his blount honesty and candor. If that is being actively rooted out in favor of a "tow the line" culture, then we are simply back to the Joe Judge regime and coaches like Jason Garrett playing company men roles rather than being true players' coaches. I don't believe this is Daboll's fault, just the culture he finds himself in.
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In comment 16399031 The Mike said:
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In comment 16399020 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16399018 The Mike said:
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In comment 16398617 Sean said:
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Just out of curiosity, you don't separate this regime at all from what happened prior?
For me, I really need to see what happens this offseason before I lump Schoen & Daboll into the prior decade.
I get your support Sean for Daboll. He is clearly a very good coach and an expert quarterback whisperer. But the team's performance in 2023 was a massive red flag. As is the Wink fallout. If 2024 is another disaster, he will lose the locker room and Mara will unfortunately be forced to make a change. The one exception is if they get a quarterback on the roster with an elite ceiling and we see some of that Daboll magic that gives the locker room a massive injection of hope for the post-2024 team.
Schoen has less latitude now because of the DJ contract. Whether he was just being a good soldier in supporting Mara or actually believed that paying a "Mitch Trubisky talent" "Josh Allen money" made sense, is somewhat irrelevant. It is one of the worst decisions made by this team's front office in its history. So as BW has said repeatedly, I am not sure that Schoen isn't just a more polished and articulate Gettleman who simply does Mara's bidding, rather than saving Mara from himself.
So to weigh in on your question, unless Schoen and Daboll quickly pivot, they will simply become future casualties not dissimilar to their immediate predecessors.
You are pinning the Wink fallout on Daboll?
Really?
No. I am simply saying it is a red flag.
Why is it a red flag if it is not the fault of Daboll?
It is the emperor with no clothes problem and the rationale behind Belichick's recent negative comments disparaging the Giants' front office and advising coaching candidates to “stay away”.
What I loved about Wink's being here, in addition to his defensive philosophy which I strongly supported despite the uneven results, was his blount honesty and candor. If that is being actively rooted out in favor of a "tow the line" culture, then we are simply back to the Joe Judge regime and coaches like Jason Garrett playing company men roles rather than being true players' coaches. I don't believe this is Daboll's fault, just the culture he finds himself in.
Your 2nd paragraph makes literally no sense
Wink and his minions tried to back stab his head coach and you are saying that culture has sometimes do with it? HUH?
Wink and as not asked beck by Baltimore and I don’t think it is a coincidence they he wasn’t able to lend another job in that NFL either
But you still haven’t answered the question as to why it is a red flag on Daboll
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In comment 16399037 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16399031 The Mike said:
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In comment 16399020 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16399018 The Mike said:
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In comment 16398617 Sean said:
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Just out of curiosity, you don't separate this regime at all from what happened prior?
For me, I really need to see what happens this offseason before I lump Schoen & Daboll into the prior decade.
I get your support Sean for Daboll. He is clearly a very good coach and an expert quarterback whisperer. But the team's performance in 2023 was a massive red flag. As is the Wink fallout. If 2024 is another disaster, he will lose the locker room and Mara will unfortunately be forced to make a change. The one exception is if they get a quarterback on the roster with an elite ceiling and we see some of that Daboll magic that gives the locker room a massive injection of hope for the post-2024 team.
Schoen has less latitude now because of the DJ contract. Whether he was just being a good soldier in supporting Mara or actually believed that paying a "Mitch Trubisky talent" "Josh Allen money" made sense, is somewhat irrelevant. It is one of the worst decisions made by this team's front office in its history. So as BW has said repeatedly, I am not sure that Schoen isn't just a more polished and articulate Gettleman who simply does Mara's bidding, rather than saving Mara from himself.
So to weigh in on your question, unless Schoen and Daboll quickly pivot, they will simply become future casualties not dissimilar to their immediate predecessors.
You are pinning the Wink fallout on Daboll?
Really?
No. I am simply saying it is a red flag.
Why is it a red flag if it is not the fault of Daboll?
It is the emperor with no clothes problem and the rationale behind Belichick's recent negative comments disparaging the Giants' front office and advising coaching candidates to “stay away”.
What I loved about Wink's being here, in addition to his defensive philosophy which I strongly supported despite the uneven results, was his blount honesty and candor. If that is being actively rooted out in favor of a "tow the line" culture, then we are simply back to the Joe Judge regime and coaches like Jason Garrett playing company men roles rather than being true players' coaches. I don't believe this is Daboll's fault, just the culture he finds himself in.
Your 2nd paragraph makes literally no sense
Wink and his minions tried to back stab his head coach and you are saying that culture has sometimes do with it? HUH?
Wink and as not asked beck by Baltimore and I don’t think it is a coincidence they he wasn’t able to lend another job in that NFL either
But you still haven’t answered the question as to why it is a red flag on Daboll
I didn't say it was a red flag on Daboll. I inferred that it was a red flag inhibiting Daboll's success here and an indication that he may not survive another year like 2023. You might want to re-read precisely what I wrote one more time so as to preclude your wasting this board's precious time. Better to remain silent after all...
As to Wink, his age hurt him, not his coaching chops. Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick didn't get jobs either. My guess is they faced a similar problem. By the way, Wink will do quite well at Michigan I believe. Isn't that where Jim Harbaugh, John Harbaugh's very own brother, recently coached? Imagine that! That wily Wink really snuck that past his former disgruntled boss!
What??
Mara is the owner. HE's not running day to day football OPS.
Mara never has run football ops and probably never will.
Echo chamber. Some of you should be so proud that you parrot this made up shit day after day and get people to buy in. Fucking save it or better yet, provide proof. Oh yeah, you can't. So fucking save it.
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In comment 16399182 The Mike said:
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In comment 16399037 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16399031 The Mike said:
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In comment 16399020 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16399018 The Mike said:
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In comment 16398617 Sean said:
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Just out of curiosity, you don't separate this regime at all from what happened prior?
For me, I really need to see what happens this offseason before I lump Schoen & Daboll into the prior decade.
I get your support Sean for Daboll. He is clearly a very good coach and an expert quarterback whisperer. But the team's performance in 2023 was a massive red flag. As is the Wink fallout. If 2024 is another disaster, he will lose the locker room and Mara will unfortunately be forced to make a change. The one exception is if they get a quarterback on the roster with an elite ceiling and we see some of that Daboll magic that gives the locker room a massive injection of hope for the post-2024 team.
Schoen has less latitude now because of the DJ contract. Whether he was just being a good soldier in supporting Mara or actually believed that paying a "Mitch Trubisky talent" "Josh Allen money" made sense, is somewhat irrelevant. It is one of the worst decisions made by this team's front office in its history. So as BW has said repeatedly, I am not sure that Schoen isn't just a more polished and articulate Gettleman who simply does Mara's bidding, rather than saving Mara from himself.
So to weigh in on your question, unless Schoen and Daboll quickly pivot, they will simply become future casualties not dissimilar to their immediate predecessors.
You are pinning the Wink fallout on Daboll?
Really?
No. I am simply saying it is a red flag.
Why is it a red flag if it is not the fault of Daboll?
It is the emperor with no clothes problem and the rationale behind Belichick's recent negative comments disparaging the Giants' front office and advising coaching candidates to “stay away”.
What I loved about Wink's being here, in addition to his defensive philosophy which I strongly supported despite the uneven results, was his blount honesty and candor. If that is being actively rooted out in favor of a "tow the line" culture, then we are simply back to the Joe Judge regime and coaches like Jason Garrett playing company men roles rather than being true players' coaches. I don't believe this is Daboll's fault, just the culture he finds himself in.
Your 2nd paragraph makes literally no sense
Wink and his minions tried to back stab his head coach and you are saying that culture has sometimes do with it? HUH?
Wink and as not asked beck by Baltimore and I don’t think it is a coincidence they he wasn’t able to lend another job in that NFL either
But you still haven’t answered the question as to why it is a red flag on Daboll
I didn't say it was a red flag on Daboll. I inferred that it was a red flag inhibiting Daboll's success here and an indication that he may not survive another year like 2023. You might want to re-read precisely what I wrote one more time so as to preclude your wasting this board's precious time. Better to remain silent after all...
As to Wink, his age hurt him, not his coaching chops. Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick didn't get jobs either. My guess is they faced a similar problem. By the way, Wink will do quite well at Michigan I believe. Isn't that where Jim Harbaugh, John Harbaugh's very own brother, recently coached? Imagine that! That wily Wink really snuck that past his former disgruntled boss!
Who cares that Jim Harbaugh used to coach there
The fact is that he was not asked back to Baltimore despite having good defenses there….wonder why?
So now that is 2 organizations in a row that didn’t want him back
Was his age an issue when he interviewed for head coaching opportunities last year?….one year made that much of a difference?
He is a back stabber….nothing more than that and used his flunkies to leak to Glazer
Wouldn’t call that exactly employable
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might be a disaster but he's still better then having the Maras involved in running the team.
What??
Mara is the owner. HE's not running day to day football OPS.
Mara never has run football ops and probably never will.
Echo chamber. Some of you should be so proud that you parrot this made up shit day after day and get people to buy in. Fucking save it or better yet, provide proof. Oh yeah, you can't. So fucking save it.
I think you need to take a break
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In comment 16399031 The Mike said:
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In comment 16399020 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16399018 The Mike said:
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In comment 16398617 Sean said:
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Just out of curiosity, you don't separate this regime at all from what happened prior?
For me, I really need to see what happens this offseason before I lump Schoen & Daboll into the prior decade.
I get your support Sean for Daboll. He is clearly a very good coach and an expert quarterback whisperer. But the team's performance in 2023 was a massive red flag. As is the Wink fallout. If 2024 is another disaster, he will lose the locker room and Mara will unfortunately be forced to make a change. The one exception is if they get a quarterback on the roster with an elite ceiling and we see some of that Daboll magic that gives the locker room a massive injection of hope for the post-2024 team.
Schoen has less latitude now because of the DJ contract. Whether he was just being a good soldier in supporting Mara or actually believed that paying a "Mitch Trubisky talent" "Josh Allen money" made sense, is somewhat irrelevant. It is one of the worst decisions made by this team's front office in its history. So as BW has said repeatedly, I am not sure that Schoen isn't just a more polished and articulate Gettleman who simply does Mara's bidding, rather than saving Mara from himself.
So to weigh in on your question, unless Schoen and Daboll quickly pivot, they will simply become future casualties not dissimilar to their immediate predecessors.
You are pinning the Wink fallout on Daboll?
Really?
No. I am simply saying it is a red flag.
Why is it a red flag if it is not the fault of Daboll?
It is the emperor with no clothes problem and the rationale behind Belichick's recent negative comments disparaging the Giants' front office and advising coaching candidates to “stay away”.
What I loved about Wink's being here, in addition to his defensive philosophy which I strongly supported despite the uneven results, was his blount honesty and candor. If that is being actively rooted out in favor of a "tow the line" culture, then we are simply back to the Joe Judge regime and coaches like Jason Garrett playing company men roles rather than being true players' coaches. I don't believe this is Daboll's fault, just the culture he finds himself in.
You’ve now used “emperor with no clothes” multiple times so I’m guessing you think it’s clever? Well, it’s not. It’s stupid so stop using it. Also, there is no evidence whatsoever that Belichick was actually telling people to stay away. In fact, that flies in the face of what has actually happened, which is multiple former Belichick assistants have come over to the Giants. Apparently you’re another one that believes everything you read on the internet
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In comment 16399037 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16399031 The Mike said:
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In comment 16399020 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16399018 The Mike said:
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In comment 16398617 Sean said:
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Just out of curiosity, you don't separate this regime at all from what happened prior?
For me, I really need to see what happens this offseason before I lump Schoen & Daboll into the prior decade.
I get your support Sean for Daboll. He is clearly a very good coach and an expert quarterback whisperer. But the team's performance in 2023 was a massive red flag. As is the Wink fallout. If 2024 is another disaster, he will lose the locker room and Mara will unfortunately be forced to make a change. The one exception is if they get a quarterback on the roster with an elite ceiling and we see some of that Daboll magic that gives the locker room a massive injection of hope for the post-2024 team.
Schoen has less latitude now because of the DJ contract. Whether he was just being a good soldier in supporting Mara or actually believed that paying a "Mitch Trubisky talent" "Josh Allen money" made sense, is somewhat irrelevant. It is one of the worst decisions made by this team's front office in its history. So as BW has said repeatedly, I am not sure that Schoen isn't just a more polished and articulate Gettleman who simply does Mara's bidding, rather than saving Mara from himself.
So to weigh in on your question, unless Schoen and Daboll quickly pivot, they will simply become future casualties not dissimilar to their immediate predecessors.
You are pinning the Wink fallout on Daboll?
Really?
No. I am simply saying it is a red flag.
Why is it a red flag if it is not the fault of Daboll?
It is the emperor with no clothes problem and the rationale behind Belichick's recent negative comments disparaging the Giants' front office and advising coaching candidates to “stay away”.
What I loved about Wink's being here, in addition to his defensive philosophy which I strongly supported despite the uneven results, was his blount honesty and candor. If that is being actively rooted out in favor of a "tow the line" culture, then we are simply back to the Joe Judge regime and coaches like Jason Garrett playing company men roles rather than being true players' coaches. I don't believe this is Daboll's fault, just the culture he finds himself in.
You’ve now used “emperor with no clothes” multiple times so I’m guessing you think it’s clever? Well, it’s not. It’s stupid so stop using it. Also, there is no evidence whatsoever that Belichick was actually telling people to stay away. In fact, that flies in the face of what has actually happened, which is multiple former Belichick assistants have come over to the Giants. Apparently you’re another one that believes everything you read on the internet
He's also saying it wrong... It's "the emperor with no new clothes" and he is using it very questionably. Maybbe he just heard it used the other day?
"The Emperor's New Clothes" is a short tale about two weavers who promise an emperor a new suit of clothes that they say is invisible to those who are unfit for their positions, stupid, or incompetent – while in reality, they make no clothes at all, making everyone believe the clothes are invisible to them.
When the emperor parades before his subjects in his new "clothes", no one dares to say that they do not see any suit of clothes on him for fear that they will be seen as stupid. Finally, a child cries out, "But he isn't wearing anything at all!"
In this case, for your illuminating reference, the child is Wink and the lie is the promise that Daniel Jones is an elite quarterback that everyone dare not disagree with.
"The Emperor's New Clothes" is a short tale about two weavers who promise an emperor a new suit of clothes that they say is invisible to those who are unfit for their positions, stupid, or incompetent – while in reality, they make no clothes at all, making everyone believe the clothes are invisible to them.
When the emperor parades before his subjects in his new "clothes", no one dares to say that they do not see any suit of clothes on him for fear that they will be seen as stupid. Finally, a child cries out, "But he isn't wearing anything at all!"
In this case, for your illuminating reference, the child is Wink and the lie is the promise that Daniel Jones is an elite quarterback that everyone dare not disagree with.
I’m well aware. And my point stands. It’s stupid and you can stop using it. You’re try to hard to sound clever. Just stop
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Just in case you never heard the parable, the moral is about the child who realizes that the "new clothes" are a lie and that he is wearing no clothes.
"The Emperor's New Clothes" is a short tale about two weavers who promise an emperor a new suit of clothes that they say is invisible to those who are unfit for their positions, stupid, or incompetent – while in reality, they make no clothes at all, making everyone believe the clothes are invisible to them.
When the emperor parades before his subjects in his new "clothes", no one dares to say that they do not see any suit of clothes on him for fear that they will be seen as stupid. Finally, a child cries out, "But he isn't wearing anything at all!"
In this case, for your illuminating reference, the child is Wink and the lie is the promise that Daniel Jones is an elite quarterback that everyone dare not disagree with.
I’m well aware. And my point stands. It’s stupid and you can stop using it. You’re try to hard to sound clever. Just stop
No thanks. Just ignore my opinions if they bother you.
I can't believe Mara actually said this. John...think. This is 2024. There was a decent shot that the recipient of this letter-Strahan91 in this case-would share this via social media or whatever. I would have posted this on BBI too.
'I do not believe we are ready to give up on Daniel Jones.' I swear...is Jones a Mara cousin or something? When will John give up on him...2045? The dude is going into his sixth year & we're still judging whether or not he's the guy. This is fucking lunacy.
I really at my wits' end with this franchise. And when we probably suck this year with that $40 Million Dollar Fraud QB @ center....well, maybe then John will finally fucking realize Jones sucks.
I can't believe Mara actually said this. John...think. This is 2024. There was a decent shot that the recipient of this letter-Strahan91 in this case-would share this via social media or whatever. I would have posted this on BBI too.
'I do not believe we are ready to give up on Daniel Jones.' I swear...is Jones a Mara cousin or something? When will John give up on him...2045? The dude is going into his sixth year & we're still judging whether or not he's the guy. This is fucking lunacy.
I really at my wits' end with this franchise. And when we probably suck this year with that $40 Million Dollar Fraud QB @ center....well, maybe then John will finally fucking realize Jones sucks.
Dude
Relax
Do ya really think they are going to reveal their draft strategy in response to a fan letter?
I can't believe Mara actually said this. John...think. This is 2024. There was a decent shot that the recipient of this letter-Strahan91 in this case-would share this via social media or whatever. I would have posted this on BBI too.
'I do not believe we are ready to give up on Daniel Jones.' I swear...is Jones a Mara cousin or something? When will John give up on him...2045? The dude is going into his sixth year & we're still judging whether or not he's the guy. This is fucking lunacy.
I really at my wits' end with this franchise. And when we probably suck this year with that $40 Million Dollar Fraud QB @ center....well, maybe then John will finally fucking realize Jones sucks.
Some of us have said for years John wasn't going to give up on Jones without some kicking and screaming
The 2024 version of the clown show pic!
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Perhaps this letter is the last straw of the DJ Era! BBI to the rescue again!
The 2024 version of the clown show pic!
Yes indeed. Exactly my thought!
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I have NEVER seen a Giant get this much rope. It is so bizarre. Is it because he’s seemingly a nice kid? A hard worker? Eli clone?
Maybe because his potential is through the roof... yes he's been hurt. Yes he was poorly coached for the first 3 years. Yes he's had NO real NFL receivers on his roster...
4x, Thank you for some common sense.
I know posters here are the diehards of the diehards...but the Giants brass is kidding themselves if the fan base is going to tolerate another season where Jones is the unquestioned starter & we're rolling it back with the same old crew.
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In comment 16399281 The Mike said:
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Just in case you never heard the parable, the moral is about the child who realizes that the "new clothes" are a lie and that he is wearing no clothes.
"The Emperor's New Clothes" is a short tale about two weavers who promise an emperor a new suit of clothes that they say is invisible to those who are unfit for their positions, stupid, or incompetent – while in reality, they make no clothes at all, making everyone believe the clothes are invisible to them.
When the emperor parades before his subjects in his new "clothes", no one dares to say that they do not see any suit of clothes on him for fear that they will be seen as stupid. Finally, a child cries out, "But he isn't wearing anything at all!"
In this case, for your illuminating reference, the child is Wink and the lie is the promise that Daniel Jones is an elite quarterback that everyone dare not disagree with.
I’m well aware. And my point stands. It’s stupid and you can stop using it. You’re try to hard to sound clever. Just stop
No thanks. Just ignore my opinions if they bother you.
Im aware of where the saying comes from. But you said it wrong and, despite your lengthy attempt to illuminate me, I think the way in which you are using this expression is incorrect in it's usage here.
But don't focus on me, your thoughts seem to be well-received by everyone else on this. I bet you are the kind of giy that also says " alas" out loud when expressing disappointment.
If DJ was so bad why would management continue to have faith in him? Believe me, they want to win more than anyone else.
As stated many times, this is a business and people want to succeed, there is no, I love this guy and want to keep him even though he stinks. The only logical reason for a team to keep someone is they believe he can help them.
If DJ was so bad why would management continue to have faith in him? Believe me, they want to win more than anyone else.
As stated many times, this is a business and people want to succeed, there is no, I love this guy and want to keep him even though he stinks. The only logical reason for a team to keep someone is they believe he can help them.
Ok thanks, Paul.
The Giants will add a QB to the room. A vet will be signed, but no one real expensive. Also, maybe through the draft, probably not with #6 because the top 3 QBs will be gone [we don't know how the NYG will evaluate the QBs]. But it's the draft and you never know. Personally, I don't want one of the second tier guys. But if they cannot get a top 3 QB, I would love them to take a flyer on Tenn Joe Milton.