Both finalists have special TEs.
I know that certain positions (TEs, OGs) seem to be downgraded when thinking Top 5.
This is a copycat league. I wonder if a 'generational talent' and a more devalued position might be bumped up because of the success SF and KC?
I realize the Chiefs are a cold weather outdoor team and do just fine with Kelce, but my strong preference is an old school, 2-way TE who blocks like an OT and can get up the seam with good hands and body control.
I realize the Chiefs are a cold weather outdoor team and do just fine with Kelce, but my strong preference is an old school, 2-way TE who blocks like an OT and can get up the seam with good hands and body control.
Good question. My impression is yes, he's not just a glorified WR, and lots of drafts have him going at #5 just ahead of us.
Schoen has consistently preached position value. QB, LT (we have one), DE, WR or CB likely that high. I would be floored if a TE were the pick at 6, and not very happy.
3 QBs, and Harrison gone. So depending on where the Chargers go, Giants could have their pick between their 2nd or 3rd ranked WR, top CB, top edge, or top QB outside the top 3.
Kelce was a 3rd round pick
Kittle was a 5th round pick
I just don't see teams getting the value out of the Pitts, Winslow, Engram, Vernon Davis, Becht, Eifert, Gresham - etc. 1st round tight ends.
every now and then a Hockenson comes along that pans out, but more often than not I feel like 1st round draft picks, especially high 1st round picks, are better spent elsewhere.
Gronk was a 2nd round pick. Antonio Gates was undrafted. Kelce 3rd round, Kittle 5th round.
It is not that the player isn't great or that the position is not important, it has more to do with the price tag of the 5th pick. Lots of money to invest in that position.
39.NYG Jer'Zhan Newton DT Illinois
47.NYG Malachi Corley WR Western Kentucky
52.NYG Christian Haynes OG UConn
70.NYG Devontez Walker WR North Carolina
81.NYG Jonah Elliss EDGE Utah
83.NYG Javon Solomon EDGE Troy
107.NYG Tommy Eichenberg LB Ohio State
116.NYG Jaden Hicks S Washington State
121.NYG Christian Mahogany OG Boston College
139.NYG Isaiah Adams OG Illinois
143.NYG Dallin Holker TE Colorado State
148.NYG MarShawn Lloyd RB USC
154.NYG Joe Milton QB Tennessee
166.NYG Fabien Lovett DT Florida State
168.NYG Theo Johnson TE Penn State
173.NYG Javon Foster OT Missouri
191.NYG Charles Turner OC LSU
200.NYG Omar Speights LB LSU
2025 LAR 2nd
2025 JAX 2nd
2025 TB 1st
2025 TB 2nd
Get lost, troll
p.s.--It should be noted that the Giants built much of their offense around Waller last year and his role will need to be replaced given his durabilty issues.
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last generational talent at TE was Pitts. Drafted 4th and has been underwhelming. TE is one of the toughest positions to transition to the NFL.
This is a silly argument. You put a grade on a prospect and you go by what that grade tells you (with respect to team needs and plans). Tom Brady and Joe Montana were drafted in the 6th and 3rd rounds and are arguably the greatest to play the position (which happens to be the toughest position to transition to the NFL. And think of the long list of top ten pick busts at the QB position. Does that mean you shouldn't draft a QB in the top ten?
p.s.--It should be noted that the Giants built much of their offense around Waller last year and his role will need to be replaced given his durabilty issues.
Joe Montana was drafted 45 years ago, they were throwing darts at a dart board back then. So your argument boils down to Tom Brady and MAYBE Brock Purdy. How many of the best QB’s in the league right now were not 1st rounders? How many of the best TE’s were?
Positional value matters, no matter how much you pretend it doesn’t.
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last generational talent at TE was Pitts. Drafted 4th and has been underwhelming. TE is one of the toughest positions to transition to the NFL.
This is a silly argument. You put a grade on a prospect and you go by what that grade tells you (with respect to team needs and plans). Tom Brady and Joe Montana were drafted in the 6th and 3rd rounds and are arguably the greatest to play the position (which happens to be the toughest position to transition to the NFL. And think of the long list of top ten pick busts at the QB position. Does that mean you shouldn't draft a QB in the top ten?
p.s.--It should be noted that the Giants built much of their offense around Waller last year and his role will need to be replaced given his durabilty issues.
It is not a silly argument. Schoen has repeatedly stressed the importance of high value positions with premium draft picks. Add in that not only is TE a non-premium position, but it is probably one of the most difficult positions to get right. What top 10-15 TE draft pick has worked out? Hockenson? Am I going to spend a #6 pick on a 1 in 10 chance of getting freaking Hockenson? I'll pass, thanks.
You completedly bastardized and oversimplified my position. Yes, there have been top 10 QB draft picks that bust, but there have been huge success stories as well. Add in the fact that QB is a much more important position than TE, and yes, I would much rather swing and miss on a QB than a TE.
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last generational talent at TE was Pitts. Drafted 4th and has been underwhelming. TE is one of the toughest positions to transition to the NFL.
This is a silly argument. You put a grade on a prospect and you go by what that grade tells you (with respect to team needs and plans). Tom Brady and Joe Montana were drafted in the 6th and 3rd rounds and are arguably the greatest to play the position (which happens to be the toughest position to transition to the NFL. And think of the long list of top ten pick busts at the QB position. Does that mean you shouldn't draft a QB in the top ten?
p.s.--It should be noted that the Giants built much of their offense around Waller last year and his role will need to be replaced given his durabilty issues.
The main difference is that first round QBs have a much better track record than TEs of actually panning out. The last HoF first round TE was Tony Gonzalez.
So the gamble is that this is the year you find that once every 25 year TE prospect. The fact that most productive TEs recently are not first round picks makes you question the draft grades of the position. At least at QB the first round QBs are the ones producing the most. (Purdy is that once every 25 year guy).
When you factor in the cap as well, its an issue. Take a look at Kyle Pitts, he's got the fifth most guaranteed money out of all the TEs in the league right now. I think some teams can afford that type of risk, but generally it doesn't make a lot of sense to draft a TE high.
The main difference is that first round QBs have a much better track record than TEs of actually panning out. The last HoF first round TE was Tony Gonzalez.
So the gamble is that this is the year you find that once every 25 year TE prospect. The fact that most productive TEs recently are not first round picks makes you question the draft grades of the position. At least at QB the first round QBs are the ones producing the most. (Purdy is that once every 25 year guy).
When you factor in the cap as well, its an issue. Take a look at Kyle Pitts, he's got the fifth most guaranteed money out of all the TEs in the league right now. I think some teams can afford that type of risk, but generally it doesn't make a lot of sense to draft a TE high.
I understand having a general belief about the importance of each position, but ultimately it comes down to the specific prospect and your expectations for him in your particular offense and defense with consideration given to your depth chart. You're looking at probabilities and positional success rates because you're a spectator to the draft like myself. But try looking at it through the eyes of the actual talent evaluator and the head coach. Who's gonna cause the opposing defense more headaches? As Accorsi would say, don't think of him as a TE, think of him as a weapon. And Accorsi was all about positional value, yet he gave up the team's 4th round pick just to move up one spot (from 15 to 14) for a TE.
As for the salary cap, it's a lot cheaper to take a TE in the top ten than it is to take a WR when it comes to the 5th year option guarantee.