But the whole richest contract in Giants history thing is not indicative of any long term commitment and moreso given the Giants believed in Jones so much the year before they decline a somewhat marginalized one year at minimal risk 5th year option.
It’s a “get out” early overpayment contract and effectively only and 80-85m contract. If anything the contract is simply emblematic of the situation the Giants and Jones found themselves in because of turning down the 5th year option.
And make a mockery of Mara supporting is current under contract qb if im in this correctly.
What did you guys want? A vanilla robotic answer such as “ee will do whats in the best interest of the ny giants” or give a vote of confidence to someone who brought us to the playoffs last year?
Then you want the owner in return to listen to the fans more after making a mockery of a personal letter he wrote? Kudos to him for providing a thoughtfelt reply.
signed up to the richest contract in franchise history 11 months ago, and Jones played in 6 games since
And now he's gonna pull the plug? Not happening.
Jones is on a 1 year contract for 2024 coming off another neck injury and torn ACL. Before he tore his ACL, there was a looming QB controversy between him and Taylor.
And yes, I say 1 year contract because Schoen would cut Jones for $19M cap savings if 2024 was another poor season.
As we've all discussed a number of times, Jones will almost certainly be on the Giants roster for 2024. But his season will be bookended with some big questions: how he recovers from his ACL and then how to proceed given his injury guarantee.
I'm on record for the last several months predicting Jones will be the presumptive starter and have the full support of management and staff this season.
I will be shocked if the Giants select a quarterback on round one, either with their pick or trading up from the second round.
As we've all discussed a number of times, Jones will almost certainly be on the Giants roster for 2024. But his season will be bookended with some big questions: how he recovers from his ACL and then how to proceed given his injury guarantee.
I'm on record for the last several months predicting Jones will be the presumptive starter and have the full support of management and staff this season.
I will be shocked if the Giants select a quarterback on round one, either with their pick or trading up from the second round.
I've been saying it since he got hurt: this is pointing to the Giants signing a veteran to hold down the fort until Jones is healthy. Tannehill, Mariota, and the like.
As we've all discussed a number of times, Jones will almost certainly be on the Giants roster for 2024. But his season will be bookended with some big questions: how he recovers from his ACL and then how to proceed given his injury guarantee.
I'm on record for the last several months predicting Jones will be the presumptive starter and have the full support of management and staff this season.
I will be shocked if the Giants select a quarterback on round one, either with their pick or trading up from the second round.
I disagree. I think if the Giants have an opportunity to grab any QB with a high ggrade in this draft, they would start the rook and second strong DJ. If for no other reason than an9ther major 8njury might force them to keep him in '25. Maybe they gove him a few games in '24. But if they get any of the top 4 QBs in the draft and he has a good camp, Jones starts 9n the bench.
but story picked up by nj. com Link - ( New Window )
Wow. Mara has got to be firious about this and might re-think his "answer all fan mail" policy. I'm wondering if this site might come under pressure for users posting direct team correspondence.
Very glad Strahan91 got the letter and shared the response, but there's an uproad over what Mara said that don't see even coming from a Jones skeptic. Due to a combination of reasons, Jones basically has to be on the roster in 2024, so he can't be thrown under the bus at this point.
The Giants need to get out of the listening to fans business
-Outrage over benching Eli in a 2-9 season. Billboards and everything. I don't doubt that it had an impact over hiring Gettleman and drafting Barkley.
-A lot of the fans who desperately want to move off Jones now were the same fans chanting his name at MetLife during the Colts win and giving him a standing ovation at MSG last March every time he was showed.
-Now, less than a calendar year later it's remove Jones at all costs.
Stop making decisions based on what the fans want. Stick to a process and embrace moves that may not be popular.
-Outrage over benching Eli in a 2-9 season. Billboards and everything. I don't doubt that it had an impact over hiring Gettleman and drafting Barkley.
-A lot of the fans who desperately want to move off Jones now were the same fans chanting his name at MetLife during the Colts win and giving him a standing ovation at MSG last March every time he was showed.
-Now, less than a calendar year later it's remove Jones at all costs.
Stop making decisions based on what the fans want. Stick to a process and embrace moves that may not be popular.
John Mara has nobody to blame but himself.
He said how the Giants "Screwed up" Daniel Jones.
He declared the Giants were "Back" after the playoff win.
He also mentioned how he was right in keeping Coughlin/Eli after 2006 when everybody said to dump them.
IMO John Mara needs to feel like he's correct. Or at least it's not his fault.
he tried to personalize it and our friend shared it with us an now people are making more of it than it is.
yep. if mara talks he said too much, if he didnt talk he'd be ostracized like dolan or the wilponzis when they refused to face the music all those years.
To the owner of a sports team because the team losing is hurting my feelings is somewhere I never want to be in life.
My feelings also. It would never even cross my mind to write a letter, its just a sports team I root for. Its not life.
How much money have you spent on the sports team you root for? I'm a longtime season ticket holder and I'm easily at 6 figures. I've built and run several businesses myself and customers reach out all the time for good and bad reasons.
Part of management is public relations, so you do respond to letters from your fans (customers). Does not mean you invest a whole lot of angst in the response. If Mara has a PA, that is the likely composer of the response. Basically said nothing politely.
Based on total money and structure, Jones deal is at least a 2 year real commitment by both parties with nothing having happened to change that commitment.
IMO, is going to get another chance as the starting QB of the NYG.
But this has nothing to do with the approach to the position vis a vis this draft or perhaps free agency. You have to plan for post 2024 at the position and that begins now.
If they don't plan for a successor in this draft, then it's an imperative in the next one, and it's an impediment to the Schoen/Daboll timeline...the rope gets shorter if the can gets kicked. I think they will survive this year almost no matter what happens, but if they have a disastrous 2025 season, it could be their last. So for these two men at the helm of this franchise, it's in their best interests to do whatever possible to acquire a QB they believe in now.
You give DJ some run this year for two reasons...the first is to hopefully re-establish some trade value (or establish), and the second is to give the new guy some acclimation time to the NFL level of competition and your system...which is designed to give him a greater chance of success once the baton is passed.
Everyone might as well come to peace with the fact that DJ will play as soon as he is healthy.
The only way this doesn't happen is if he is not ready early and a potential rookie is thrown into the fire right away and acquits himself admirably.
People think Mara cares this got leaked. He said it's up to the football people what will happen. That's what you'd want an owner yo say... unless y'all would prefer him to act like Woody and direct them on things out of his element
I don't get it either. I think some people (not Sy) lean into the doom & gloom. But, there is a reason Schoen had a hard negotiation for that potential out after 2024.
Why wouldn't he exercise it and seriously consider QB in a QB heavy draft with a top 10 pick?
And make a mockery of Mara supporting is current under contract qb if im in this correctly.
What did you guys want? A vanilla robotic answer such as “ee will do whats in the best interest of the ny giants” or give a vote of confidence to someone who brought us to the playoffs last year?
Then you want the owner in return to listen to the fans more after making a mockery of a personal letter he wrote? Kudos to him for providing a thoughtfelt reply.
Why wouldn't he exercise it and seriously consider QB in a QB heavy draft with a top 10 pick?
My guess is Schoen knows if he picks a QB with a top 10 pick, the moment Jones makes a mistake the entire world will be pressuring Daboll to play the rookie.
Picking a QB in the top 10 this year means they gave Jones 6 games last year, and possibly fewer than 10 games total to prove he was worth the investment.
I think Schoen would be comfortable moving on from Jones after this year if he doesn't perform.
My guess is the Giants pick a quarterback in the 2nd round.
1) I have no issue with someone writing Mara. As Strahan91 pointed out in this thread or another one, he drops a ton of coin on the team. I, for one, wouldn't write Mara, but I have no issue with those who do.
2) If Mara wants to get less heat, the answer is simple...fucking win. No one GAF about the owner when the team is winning. You think Chiefs fans are losing sleep over whichever Hunt is in charge right now?
3) Mara defenders are delusional, right up there with DJ fans.
It really isn't 6 games though. It's 17 and he was only healthy for 6. Big difference especially when you view it as a 2 year, $82M contract.
As for the fans calling for the rookie, the fans were already calling for Taylor before the ACL.
I’ve told christian this numerous times. He continues to ignore it and pretend the 11 games missed aren’t substantial to the eval and just throws them out. Tomorrow when he posts in another thread, he will say the same 6 game routine. I’m not sure why he refuses to acknowledge the games missed due to injury, but he does.
I just think you're wrong. These aren't career threatening injuries, and I don't think they will weigh heavily enough in their decision making to make them give up on him.
I've posted this question before, if Joe Burrow suffered the same two injuries Jones did this season, do you think the Bengals would be contemplating replacing him? Of course not. A torn ACL and a neck injury that cost a player a few games aren't cause to be deeply concerned.
Schoen is going to evaluate whether he believes he has enough information to give up on Jones. And I don't believe he has enough on-the-field information to say that.
I just think you're wrong. These aren't career threatening injuries, and I don't think they will weigh heavily enough in their decision making to make them give up on him.
I've posted this question before, if Joe Burrow suffered the same two injuries Jones did this season, do you think the Bengals would be contemplating replacing him? Of course not. A torn ACL and a neck injury that cost a player a few games aren't cause to be deeply concerned.
Schoen is going to evaluate whether he believes he has enough information to give up on Jones. And I don't believe he has enough on-the-field information to say that.
But, Jones got nowhere near the contract that Burrow got.
I also don't think it's giving up on Jones necessarily, it's an opportunity to bring in a QB with a top 10 pick in a class which is expected to be better than 2025 (many people ignore this). When has Schoen had a prime opportunity to draft a QB high?
2022: two top 10 picks in a weak QB draft. There is little doubt Schoen would have pounced here if the QB prospects met the value.
2023: 25th pick in the draft
Logic would say this is the opportunity to draft a QB. All the noise and reports indicate they will too.
It still doesn't mean they are "giving up" on Jones. He could still start or be a viable backup.
Put yourself in Schoen's shoes: you did the medical diligence before the contract and there was no cause for concern, and you believed in the player enough to guarantee him 82M.
Would the variety of injuries be suffered + his play over the 6 games be enough to convince you unequivocally Jones is not the guy you thought he could be?
Put yourself in Schoen's shoes: you did the medical diligence before the contract and there was no cause for concern, and you believed in the player enough to guarantee him 82M.
Would the variety of injuries be suffered + his play over the 6 games be enough to convince you unequivocally Jones is not the guy you thought he could be?
who said "unequivocally" is the standard? in fact didnt schoen himself comment that jones could have a setback and they have to consider that?
other than tabloid stupidity, which will be as rampant as it already is no matter what, what is harmed by giving themselves a jones-alternative? if jones plays great and wins he can keep the job as long as they want him. if jimmy g held off lance/purdy he'd have played in the SB.
starting from jones is also the wrong way of looking at the decision. the last 2 drafts set up as poorly as could be fore nyg to consider a qb (which was likely a part of their calculus in extending jones last year, they liked him enough to commit to hedging 2 years with him).
conversely this is a really good qb draft and they have a high pick. there may be a guy they simply have a really high grade on in reach for the first time. with no guarantee of it happening again any time soon. i doubt they force a pick but if there is a guy they like a lot whose rights they can control for 2 years beyond jones (plus tags) it would be beyond moronic to pass.
QB planning is not a year to year thing. jones' injury is the perfect excuse to get 2 shots instead of 1. if there's even a 1% chance they think they may move on from jones in 2025 they would be moronic to not add an alternative in the draft this year if they get the chance.
like i said above if your offering odds im taking the bet they arent that stupid to pass, and im 99% sure the biggest risk is the guys they like get taken ahead of them.
Put yourself in Schoen's shoes: you did the medical diligence before the contract and there was no cause for concern, and you believed in the player enough to guarantee him 82M.
Would the variety of injuries be suffered + his play over the 6 games be enough to convince you unequivocally Jones is not the guy you thought he could be?
A good GM would evaluate the QB draft prospects and compare them to Jones. I don't think it matters whether Jones can still be the guy he thought or not. Schoen has an opportunity to draft a high level QB prospect at the top of the draft. A good GM looks beyond 2024 and compares the situation he's in now vs what the QB landscape looks like next year.
I've seen the Jones contract referred to as a tier 3 QB contract and also the biggest contract in team history. It depends on what perspective you look at it from.
I guess I just have a higher expectation from Schoen than a lot here. I don't think he'll double down on the Jones contract when he negotiated hard for an out after 2024.
Lastly, it's a 6 QB draft at this point. (Williams, Daniels, Maye, McCarthy, Nix & Penix). If you are predicting a 2nd round QB, it's most likely going to be one of these 6. And it seems like the rankings with these 6 are all over the board. So, I think the QB controversy will still be present even if it's a 2nd round pick.
Lastly, it's a 6 QB draft at this point. (Williams, Daniels, Maye, McCarthy, Nix & Penix). If you are predicting a 2nd round QB, it's most likely going to be one of these 6. And it seems like the rankings with these 6 are all over the board. So, I think the QB controversy will still be present even if it's a 2nd round pick.
bingo. the 2nd round qb is the girl still at the bar at closing time. the chances something good comes from it are heavily against.
the only thing i disagree with in your post is re schoen, this is a daboll decision and without predicting who, my guess is they end up with only 2 or 3 of the 6 you mentioned they like enough to pick at #6. and whoever they like will probably be determined in their time together the next few months as whatever is on their tape. the tape gets them in the conversation now, their direct interactions determine whether or not they will pick them.
A good GM would evaluate the QB draft prospects and compare them to Jones. I don't think it matters whether Jones can still be the guy he thought or not. Schoen has an opportunity to draft a high level QB prospect at the top of the draft. A good GM looks beyond 2024 and compares the situation he's in now vs what the QB landscape looks like next year.
I've seen the Jones contract referred to as a tier 3 QB contract and also the biggest contract in team history. It depends on what perspective you look at it from.
I guess I just have a higher expectation from Schoen than a lot here. I don't think he'll double down on the Jones contract when he negotiated hard for an out after 2024.
Lastly, it's a 6 QB draft at this point. (Williams, Daniels, Maye, McCarthy, Nix & Penix). If you are predicting a 2nd round QB, it's most likely going to be one of these 6. And it seems like the rankings with these 6 are all over the board. So, I think the QB controversy will still be present even if it's a 2nd round pick.
I don't disagree at all with the logic in anything you've posted. I think you know what I *want* Schoen to do -- I want him to make a bold move up and pick one of the top QBs.
What I'm trying to guess is what Schoen *will* do.
My guess is Schoen really likes and believes in Jones. He challenged Jones to prove him wrong when he declined the 5th year option, and Jones did that. He rewarded Jones for that. Schoen had the means to play hardball with either the franchise or transition tag, but he negotiated a fair deal (that was both the biggest in team history and a few notches below the top guys).
Said in another way, I think Jones is his guy, and I don't think Schoen is looking to replace him. I think Schoen wants Jones to come back strong.
One area I disagree -- I don't think a 2nd round pick will create controversy in the same way a top 10 pick would.
I think that's reasonable, but all I'll say is I think you are underestimating the fan sentiment towards Jones right now. The temperature is high and I'd expect minimal patience.
Said in another way, I think Jones is his guy, and I don't think Schoen is looking to replace him. I think Schoen wants Jones to come back strong.
One area I disagree -- I don't think a 2nd round pick will create controversy in the same way a top 10 pick would.
As you know, we are in lockstep with Schoen.
But he's definitely at a fork in the road in his maiden voyage as GM. Does he go right and double down on his first big contract call as a GM and stick with Jones? Or does he go left and show real leadership flexibility by identifying a mistake right away and beginning the process to fix it?
While most might think going with a rookie is riskier, I see it the other way with Jones. You are hoping a player in his 6th year can finally show he is that guy you can trust to compete for SBs. I mean, just think how absurd that is - his sixth year??
If this was any other situation around the league where another team was giving Jones a sixth try, I feel very comfortable saying this board would be unanimous in finding that situation idiotic and laughable.
Said in another way, I think Jones is his guy, and I don't think Schoen is looking to replace him. I think Schoen wants Jones to come back strong.
One area I disagree -- I don't think a 2nd round pick will create controversy in the same way a top 10 pick would.
As you know, we are in lockstep with Schoen.
But he's definitely at a fork in the road in his maiden voyage as GM. Does he go right and double down on his first big contract call as a GM and stick with Jones? Or does he go left and show real leadership flexibility by identifying a mistake right away and beginning the process to fix it?
While most might think going with a rookie is riskier, I see it the other way with Jones. You are hoping a player in his 6th year can finally show he is that guy you can trust to compete for SBs. I mean, just think how absurd that is - his sixth year??
If this was any other situation around the league where another team was giving Jones a sixth try, I feel very comfortable saying this board would be unanimous in finding that situation idiotic and laughable.
The fact that it's basically a 2 year deal that Schoen gave Jones gives me hope that he not only understands the importance of drafting a top qb, but maybe even had it in his mind as a potential plan if things didn't go well.
The fact that it's basically a 2 year deal that Schoen gave Jones gives me hope that he not only understands the importance of drafting a top qb, but maybe even had it in his mind as a potential plan if things didn't go well.
A lot of speculation about which direction this will go is about a month away.
Because there is a 45-day window when Schoen will have no choice but to turn over his cards.
The start of free agency (March 13) to the end of the draft (April 27th).
signing a vet doesn't indicate anything, unless it is a top tier FA, which is unlikely.
Picking a QB in second round is most likely with an eye to be a starter. With so many needs on the team, 2nd round is too high to be picking a backup, especially if we sign a backup quality vet (as opposed to camp arm).
The entire team was playing like shit in the games DJ played. I missed the second half AZ comeback, but presumably DJ got the job done. IF they liked DJ enough to sign him, they aren't giving up on him after 6 games. But, between a poor showing, and injury history, I'd be shocked if QB is not a consideration IF there's a good prospect available when we pick. A likely thought process is that they may not feel desperate to take a QB, but will consider it if one is available.
Was critical to the long-term viability of his contract, and therefore it would not be some surprising about-face for Schoen to pivot now.
I don't disagree that Schoen likes Jones, but economics simply rule the roost. Jones' cap hits for year 2, 3, and 4 are large, with year 4 being so ridiculously large ($58 mil) that there was no chance they wouldn't restructure at some point.
You know which cap hit wasn't large? Year 1. Meaning that this was Jones' chance to either elevate his game to top-10 and earn an immediate restructure to lower his $47 million 2024 cap hit with extra years, or he could he maintain his above-average (but not top-ten) level from 2022 and the team would roll the dice with him and his $47 million hit in 2024 and restructure Dex and Thomas to help build the team aroud good, but not great QB play.
This is why Schoen mentioned the 'accelerated timeline' in his end-of-year press conference. Jones really had to play well and stay healthy this past season to justify reinvestment in his contract. Now he's put the team in a rock-and-a-hard place. What if he rebounds in 2024 and plays on his 2022 level, but is only healthy for 10 games? You are then faced with a $40 million dollar cap hit for 2025, cutting him and eating $22 million, or restructuring his contract and guaranteeing extra years of him on the roster despite totally inconsistent play and health.
This is why Simms and Banks' comments of "support" were overblown, because both them implied that Jones had to turn around his play immediately or he would be gone fast. The contract was a 2-year test where Jones really needed to pass the first year test, so the Giant will now hedge, and Jones will need to pull a rabbit out of his hat to justify being on the roster after 2024.
Quote:
signed up to the richest contract in franchise history 11 months ago, and Jones played in 6 games since
And now he's gonna pull the plug? Not happening.
He played in six games and was injured for 11. If anything the injuries are a greater mark against him.
Agreed and overlooked. Even if he bounces back, he has to be one more head&neck injury away from retirement
It’s a “get out” early overpayment contract and effectively only and 80-85m contract. If anything the contract is simply emblematic of the situation the Giants and Jones found themselves in because of turning down the 5th year option.
What did you guys want? A vanilla robotic answer such as “ee will do whats in the best interest of the ny giants” or give a vote of confidence to someone who brought us to the playoffs last year?
Then you want the owner in return to listen to the fans more after making a mockery of a personal letter he wrote? Kudos to him for providing a thoughtfelt reply.
And now he's gonna pull the plug? Not happening.
I agree that's the likely outcome.
Doesn't mean it's the prudent strategy.
And now he's gonna pull the plug? Not happening.
Jones is on a 1 year contract for 2024 coming off another neck injury and torn ACL. Before he tore his ACL, there was a looming QB controversy between him and Taylor.
And yes, I say 1 year contract because Schoen would cut Jones for $19M cap savings if 2024 was another poor season.
And now he's gonna pull the plug? Not happening.
☝️
Quote:
signed up to the richest contract in franchise history 11 months ago, and Jones played in 6 games since
And now he's gonna pull the plug? Not happening.
He played in six games and was injured for 11. If anything the injuries are a greater mark against him.
That's what I am starting to think. This guy can't stay healthy? China doll?
I'm on record for the last several months predicting Jones will be the presumptive starter and have the full support of management and staff this season.
I will be shocked if the Giants select a quarterback on round one, either with their pick or trading up from the second round.
I'm on record for the last several months predicting Jones will be the presumptive starter and have the full support of management and staff this season.
I will be shocked if the Giants select a quarterback on round one, either with their pick or trading up from the second round.
I've been saying it since he got hurt: this is pointing to the Giants signing a veteran to hold down the fort until Jones is healthy. Tannehill, Mariota, and the like.
I'm on record for the last several months predicting Jones will be the presumptive starter and have the full support of management and staff this season.
I will be shocked if the Giants select a quarterback on round one, either with their pick or trading up from the second round.
I disagree. I think if the Giants have an opportunity to grab any QB with a high ggrade in this draft, they would start the rook and second strong DJ. If for no other reason than an9ther major 8njury might force them to keep him in '25. Maybe they gove him a few games in '24. But if they get any of the top 4 QBs in the draft and he has a good camp, Jones starts 9n the bench.
Link - ( New Window )
Wow. Mara has got to be firious about this and might re-think his "answer all fan mail" policy. I'm wondering if this site might come under pressure for users posting direct team correspondence.
Classic that this went into the sports media stream.
Nice job strahan!
-Outrage over benching Eli in a 2-9 season. Billboards and everything. I don't doubt that it had an impact over hiring Gettleman and drafting Barkley.
-A lot of the fans who desperately want to move off Jones now were the same fans chanting his name at MetLife during the Colts win and giving him a standing ovation at MSG last March every time he was showed.
-Now, less than a calendar year later it's remove Jones at all costs.
Stop making decisions based on what the fans want. Stick to a process and embrace moves that may not be popular.
-Outrage over benching Eli in a 2-9 season. Billboards and everything. I don't doubt that it had an impact over hiring Gettleman and drafting Barkley.
-A lot of the fans who desperately want to move off Jones now were the same fans chanting his name at MetLife during the Colts win and giving him a standing ovation at MSG last March every time he was showed.
-Now, less than a calendar year later it's remove Jones at all costs.
Stop making decisions based on what the fans want. Stick to a process and embrace moves that may not be popular.
John Mara has nobody to blame but himself.
He said how the Giants "Screwed up" Daniel Jones.
He declared the Giants were "Back" after the playoff win.
He also mentioned how he was right in keeping Coughlin/Eli after 2006 when everybody said to dump them.
IMO John Mara needs to feel like he's correct. Or at least it's not his fault.
I will be shocked if the Giants select a quarterback on round one, either with their pick or trading up from the second round.
what kind of odds does christian's sportsbook put on "shocking"? +500 or better lmk where i can place that bet.
My feelings also. It would never even cross my mind to write a letter, its just a sports team I root for. Its not life.
yep. if mara talks he said too much, if he didnt talk he'd be ostracized like dolan or the wilponzis when they refused to face the music all those years.
Quote:
To the owner of a sports team because the team losing is hurting my feelings is somewhere I never want to be in life.
My feelings also. It would never even cross my mind to write a letter, its just a sports team I root for. Its not life.
How much money have you spent on the sports team you root for? I'm a longtime season ticket holder and I'm easily at 6 figures. I've built and run several businesses myself and customers reach out all the time for good and bad reasons.
Based on total money and structure, Jones deal is at least a 2 year real commitment by both parties with nothing having happened to change that commitment.
But this has nothing to do with the approach to the position vis a vis this draft or perhaps free agency. You have to plan for post 2024 at the position and that begins now.
If they don't plan for a successor in this draft, then it's an imperative in the next one, and it's an impediment to the Schoen/Daboll timeline...the rope gets shorter if the can gets kicked. I think they will survive this year almost no matter what happens, but if they have a disastrous 2025 season, it could be their last. So for these two men at the helm of this franchise, it's in their best interests to do whatever possible to acquire a QB they believe in now.
You give DJ some run this year for two reasons...the first is to hopefully re-establish some trade value (or establish), and the second is to give the new guy some acclimation time to the NFL level of competition and your system...which is designed to give him a greater chance of success once the baton is passed.
Everyone might as well come to peace with the fact that DJ will play as soon as he is healthy.
The only way this doesn't happen is if he is not ready early and a potential rookie is thrown into the fire right away and acquits himself admirably.
And now he's gonna pull the plug? Not happening.
Sy I keep seeing this take and just don't get it. We can afford to get out after this year and it's not coincidence.
It's ok to have enough humility to admit a mistake and move on. The benchmark for a GM can't be perfection.
He played well enough in 22 to get two more years we don't need to see 3-4
Why wouldn't he exercise it and seriously consider QB in a QB heavy draft with a top 10 pick?
What did you guys want? A vanilla robotic answer such as “ee will do whats in the best interest of the ny giants” or give a vote of confidence to someone who brought us to the playoffs last year?
Then you want the owner in return to listen to the fans more after making a mockery of a personal letter he wrote? Kudos to him for providing a thoughtfelt reply.
Lol. Ok.
JFC.
My guess is Schoen knows if he picks a QB with a top 10 pick, the moment Jones makes a mistake the entire world will be pressuring Daboll to play the rookie.
Picking a QB in the top 10 this year means they gave Jones 6 games last year, and possibly fewer than 10 games total to prove he was worth the investment.
I think Schoen would be comfortable moving on from Jones after this year if he doesn't perform.
My guess is the Giants pick a quarterback in the 2nd round.
Until this team does better, he deserves all the shit slung his way.
1) I have no issue with someone writing Mara. As Strahan91 pointed out in this thread or another one, he drops a ton of coin on the team. I, for one, wouldn't write Mara, but I have no issue with those who do.
2) If Mara wants to get less heat, the answer is simple...fucking win. No one GAF about the owner when the team is winning. You think Chiefs fans are losing sleep over whichever Hunt is in charge right now?
3) Mara defenders are delusional, right up there with DJ fans.
As for the fans calling for the rookie, the fans were already calling for Taylor before the ACL.
As for the fans calling for the rookie, the fans were already calling for Taylor before the ACL.
I’ve told christian this numerous times. He continues to ignore it and pretend the 11 games missed aren’t substantial to the eval and just throws them out. Tomorrow when he posts in another thread, he will say the same 6 game routine. I’m not sure why he refuses to acknowledge the games missed due to injury, but he does.
I've posted this question before, if Joe Burrow suffered the same two injuries Jones did this season, do you think the Bengals would be contemplating replacing him? Of course not. A torn ACL and a neck injury that cost a player a few games aren't cause to be deeply concerned.
Schoen is going to evaluate whether he believes he has enough information to give up on Jones. And I don't believe he has enough on-the-field information to say that.
I've posted this question before, if Joe Burrow suffered the same two injuries Jones did this season, do you think the Bengals would be contemplating replacing him? Of course not. A torn ACL and a neck injury that cost a player a few games aren't cause to be deeply concerned.
Schoen is going to evaluate whether he believes he has enough information to give up on Jones. And I don't believe he has enough on-the-field information to say that.
But, Jones got nowhere near the contract that Burrow got.
I also don't think it's giving up on Jones necessarily, it's an opportunity to bring in a QB with a top 10 pick in a class which is expected to be better than 2025 (many people ignore this). When has Schoen had a prime opportunity to draft a QB high?
2022: two top 10 picks in a weak QB draft. There is little doubt Schoen would have pounced here if the QB prospects met the value.
2023: 25th pick in the draft
Logic would say this is the opportunity to draft a QB. All the noise and reports indicate they will too.
It still doesn't mean they are "giving up" on Jones. He could still start or be a viable backup.
Put yourself in Schoen's shoes: you did the medical diligence before the contract and there was no cause for concern, and you believed in the player enough to guarantee him 82M.
Would the variety of injuries be suffered + his play over the 6 games be enough to convince you unequivocally Jones is not the guy you thought he could be?
Put yourself in Schoen's shoes: you did the medical diligence before the contract and there was no cause for concern, and you believed in the player enough to guarantee him 82M.
Would the variety of injuries be suffered + his play over the 6 games be enough to convince you unequivocally Jones is not the guy you thought he could be?
who said "unequivocally" is the standard? in fact didnt schoen himself comment that jones could have a setback and they have to consider that?
other than tabloid stupidity, which will be as rampant as it already is no matter what, what is harmed by giving themselves a jones-alternative? if jones plays great and wins he can keep the job as long as they want him. if jimmy g held off lance/purdy he'd have played in the SB.
starting from jones is also the wrong way of looking at the decision. the last 2 drafts set up as poorly as could be fore nyg to consider a qb (which was likely a part of their calculus in extending jones last year, they liked him enough to commit to hedging 2 years with him).
conversely this is a really good qb draft and they have a high pick. there may be a guy they simply have a really high grade on in reach for the first time. with no guarantee of it happening again any time soon. i doubt they force a pick but if there is a guy they like a lot whose rights they can control for 2 years beyond jones (plus tags) it would be beyond moronic to pass.
QB planning is not a year to year thing. jones' injury is the perfect excuse to get 2 shots instead of 1. if there's even a 1% chance they think they may move on from jones in 2025 they would be moronic to not add an alternative in the draft this year if they get the chance.
like i said above if your offering odds im taking the bet they arent that stupid to pass, and im 99% sure the biggest risk is the guys they like get taken ahead of them.
Put yourself in Schoen's shoes: you did the medical diligence before the contract and there was no cause for concern, and you believed in the player enough to guarantee him 82M.
Would the variety of injuries be suffered + his play over the 6 games be enough to convince you unequivocally Jones is not the guy you thought he could be?
A good GM would evaluate the QB draft prospects and compare them to Jones. I don't think it matters whether Jones can still be the guy he thought or not. Schoen has an opportunity to draft a high level QB prospect at the top of the draft. A good GM looks beyond 2024 and compares the situation he's in now vs what the QB landscape looks like next year.
I've seen the Jones contract referred to as a tier 3 QB contract and also the biggest contract in team history. It depends on what perspective you look at it from.
I guess I just have a higher expectation from Schoen than a lot here. I don't think he'll double down on the Jones contract when he negotiated hard for an out after 2024.
Lastly, it's a 6 QB draft at this point. (Williams, Daniels, Maye, McCarthy, Nix & Penix). If you are predicting a 2nd round QB, it's most likely going to be one of these 6. And it seems like the rankings with these 6 are all over the board. So, I think the QB controversy will still be present even if it's a 2nd round pick.
Lastly, it's a 6 QB draft at this point. (Williams, Daniels, Maye, McCarthy, Nix & Penix). If you are predicting a 2nd round QB, it's most likely going to be one of these 6. And it seems like the rankings with these 6 are all over the board. So, I think the QB controversy will still be present even if it's a 2nd round pick.
bingo. the 2nd round qb is the girl still at the bar at closing time. the chances something good comes from it are heavily against.
the only thing i disagree with in your post is re schoen, this is a daboll decision and without predicting who, my guess is they end up with only 2 or 3 of the 6 you mentioned they like enough to pick at #6. and whoever they like will probably be determined in their time together the next few months as whatever is on their tape. the tape gets them in the conversation now, their direct interactions determine whether or not they will pick them.
I've seen the Jones contract referred to as a tier 3 QB contract and also the biggest contract in team history. It depends on what perspective you look at it from.
I guess I just have a higher expectation from Schoen than a lot here. I don't think he'll double down on the Jones contract when he negotiated hard for an out after 2024.
Lastly, it's a 6 QB draft at this point. (Williams, Daniels, Maye, McCarthy, Nix & Penix). If you are predicting a 2nd round QB, it's most likely going to be one of these 6. And it seems like the rankings with these 6 are all over the board. So, I think the QB controversy will still be present even if it's a 2nd round pick.
I don't disagree at all with the logic in anything you've posted. I think you know what I *want* Schoen to do -- I want him to make a bold move up and pick one of the top QBs.
What I'm trying to guess is what Schoen *will* do.
My guess is Schoen really likes and believes in Jones. He challenged Jones to prove him wrong when he declined the 5th year option, and Jones did that. He rewarded Jones for that. Schoen had the means to play hardball with either the franchise or transition tag, but he negotiated a fair deal (that was both the biggest in team history and a few notches below the top guys).
Said in another way, I think Jones is his guy, and I don't think Schoen is looking to replace him. I think Schoen wants Jones to come back strong.
One area I disagree -- I don't think a 2nd round pick will create controversy in the same way a top 10 pick would.
Said in another way, I think Jones is his guy, and I don't think Schoen is looking to replace him. I think Schoen wants Jones to come back strong.
One area I disagree -- I don't think a 2nd round pick will create controversy in the same way a top 10 pick would.
As you know, we are in lockstep with Schoen.
But he's definitely at a fork in the road in his maiden voyage as GM. Does he go right and double down on his first big contract call as a GM and stick with Jones? Or does he go left and show real leadership flexibility by identifying a mistake right away and beginning the process to fix it?
While most might think going with a rookie is riskier, I see it the other way with Jones. You are hoping a player in his 6th year can finally show he is that guy you can trust to compete for SBs. I mean, just think how absurd that is - his sixth year??
If this was any other situation around the league where another team was giving Jones a sixth try, I feel very comfortable saying this board would be unanimous in finding that situation idiotic and laughable.
Quote:
Said in another way, I think Jones is his guy, and I don't think Schoen is looking to replace him. I think Schoen wants Jones to come back strong.
One area I disagree -- I don't think a 2nd round pick will create controversy in the same way a top 10 pick would.
As you know, we are in lockstep with Schoen.
But he's definitely at a fork in the road in his maiden voyage as GM. Does he go right and double down on his first big contract call as a GM and stick with Jones? Or does he go left and show real leadership flexibility by identifying a mistake right away and beginning the process to fix it?
While most might think going with a rookie is riskier, I see it the other way with Jones. You are hoping a player in his 6th year can finally show he is that guy you can trust to compete for SBs. I mean, just think how absurd that is - his sixth year??
If this was any other situation around the league where another team was giving Jones a sixth try, I feel very comfortable saying this board would be unanimous in finding that situation idiotic and laughable.
The fact that it's basically a 2 year deal that Schoen gave Jones gives me hope that he not only understands the importance of drafting a top qb, but maybe even had it in his mind as a potential plan if things didn't go well.
The fact that it's basically a 2 year deal that Schoen gave Jones gives me hope that he not only understands the importance of drafting a top qb, but maybe even had it in his mind as a potential plan if things didn't go well.
A lot of speculation about which direction this will go is about a month away.
Because there is a 45-day window when Schoen will have no choice but to turn over his cards.
The start of free agency (March 13) to the end of the draft (April 27th).
Picking a QB in second round is most likely with an eye to be a starter. With so many needs on the team, 2nd round is too high to be picking a backup, especially if we sign a backup quality vet (as opposed to camp arm).
The entire team was playing like shit in the games DJ played. I missed the second half AZ comeback, but presumably DJ got the job done. IF they liked DJ enough to sign him, they aren't giving up on him after 6 games. But, between a poor showing, and injury history, I'd be shocked if QB is not a consideration IF there's a good prospect available when we pick. A likely thought process is that they may not feel desperate to take a QB, but will consider it if one is available.
I don't disagree that Schoen likes Jones, but economics simply rule the roost. Jones' cap hits for year 2, 3, and 4 are large, with year 4 being so ridiculously large ($58 mil) that there was no chance they wouldn't restructure at some point.
You know which cap hit wasn't large? Year 1. Meaning that this was Jones' chance to either elevate his game to top-10 and earn an immediate restructure to lower his $47 million 2024 cap hit with extra years, or he could he maintain his above-average (but not top-ten) level from 2022 and the team would roll the dice with him and his $47 million hit in 2024 and restructure Dex and Thomas to help build the team aroud good, but not great QB play.
This is why Schoen mentioned the 'accelerated timeline' in his end-of-year press conference. Jones really had to play well and stay healthy this past season to justify reinvestment in his contract. Now he's put the team in a rock-and-a-hard place. What if he rebounds in 2024 and plays on his 2022 level, but is only healthy for 10 games? You are then faced with a $40 million dollar cap hit for 2025, cutting him and eating $22 million, or restructuring his contract and guaranteeing extra years of him on the roster despite totally inconsistent play and health.
This is why Simms and Banks' comments of "support" were overblown, because both them implied that Jones had to turn around his play immediately or he would be gone fast. The contract was a 2-year test where Jones really needed to pass the first year test, so the Giant will now hedge, and Jones will need to pull a rabbit out of his hat to justify being on the roster after 2024.